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Episode 516: In this episode, we examine the story of King Saul consulting a medium in 1 Samuel 28. We discuss Saul's desperation and refusal to repent, leading him to seek guidance from a witch despite having previously outlawed such practices. The episode highlights the consequences of Saul's actions and the significance of his encounter with the spirit of Samuel, emphasizing the dangers of dabbling in witchcraft and the importance of seeking God directly. Throughout the conversation, we reflect on the nature of spiritual power, the reality of the spiritual realm, and the ultimate message that God can use even the most unlikely situations for His purposes.
Whether you’ve been following Jesus for years or you’re just starting to ask questions, there’s a seat for you here.
Join Jeff and Chris for honest conversations about Scripture, faith, and the everyday stuff we all navigate. With humor, personal stories, and plenty of back-and-forth, The Bible Guys explore what the Bible says and how it connects to your life.
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You're listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun, in practical ways. Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of The Bible Guys. Here we are. We are right here in this studio, as we seem to always be. Yes, yes, we're always here. Super exciting stuff. Yeah, but by the way, you don't even know where the studio is. It's kind of a mystery. People actually have asked me a secret. Yeah. People have actually a secret bunker, and if we tell you, we'll have to kill you. Some people have writually in the lobby they say where are you guys, and they think it's in the church, but it's not. It's not a podcast offsite. That's right. Hey, So we are going to start the week and the day in this episode with some of the best news that you've ever heard in your life. Well, I mean, I think our longtime listeners know how dedicated we are. Yes, only the finest news for our people. Yes, and this one is it's more of a special interest piece. It's definitely it's probably funnier to us. Yes, yes, but I mean if they're trying to figure out what kind of pastor. Should they follow? Yes, well, these are some of those qualifications. So Babylon B has a list here, do you have what it takes to be a pastor? Here are nine qualifications? So I think maybe we can measure each other to see if you have what it takes. I'm asking you if you have what it takes to be a pastor? Don't look at yourself. Well, I've already looked through some of these and i think I'm more than qualified. But humility not being on this list. So do you have what it takes to be a pastor? Here on nine qualifications. There are many glamorous occupations people pursue movie star, doctor, satire writer, but perhaps the most prestigious and sought after line of work is that of being a pastor. Yeah, though many want such a job, few are qualified. So do you meet the requirements? The Babylon B has compiled the following hell full list of the nine more important qualifications to become a pastor? More important, more important. Yes. Number one, you must be perfect and never make a mistake, because everyone knows pastors don't. Do anything wrong. That's right, right, So how you doing? How you doing on that one? Pretty good? Doing? Pretty good so far. I'm feeling good. I'm checking the box. Feeling great about this one. Yeah yeah, Okay. Number two must be thin enough to not be a glutton, but fat enough to not be hot. Wow, I'm doing pretty good on that one. Wow. I can't even believe they wrote that. That's actually pretty hilarious. It says, you don't want to be morbidly obese, but you don't want to distract anyone with your handsomeness. Okay, number three, you must always jump out the nearest window, if ever in the same room with a woman while no. One else is present. That's really funny. This is known as the Billy Graham rule. It's so funny that they took that, which is a good rule, winning stream with it because it's it's pretty funny. Billy Graham had a rule that he would never be alone, and so that's probably one of the reasons why at ninety nine years old when he died, he never had a controversy either, right, because he was particularly careful. Okay, number four must be able to survive on a diet made up solely of castle roles. Did you ever go to church? I had lots of Oh yeah, lots of. And those are my favorite moments in life. Yeah, pot luck, potluck, dinner's man, all the ladies bring their cast roles. Yes, some may be better than others. The heart of Atlanta, Yes, oh that was where I was. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was really good. Okay. I used to serve in Southeast Texas and it was all the Cajuns and they'd always bring gumbos, gumbos and John Balaias. It was so good. Okay. Number five must be willing to work weekends, weekdays, nights, mornings, afternoons, and holidays. That's awesome, right, Marriage counseling experience, theological knowledge, and carpentry skills are also preferred. Oh my goodness, this was really well written. Yeah. I worked for a pastor that did everything. He mowed the lawn, right, I mean he did everything to do all the repairs. Okay. A number six must be willing to drive a twenty year old vehicle and never flash your wealth. And this is for white pastors ownly. Yeah, if you're a urban pastor, if you're a neurban pastor, this doesn't this doesn't apply to you. But for rural white pastors, you have to drive twenty year old vehicles and never flash. Well, if you don't live in church world, this may not be funny to you, but I'm telling you right now, this is ministry gold stuff. This is gold. It's so good. It's so funny. Okay. Number seven, uh and and by the way, a bunch of my friends they know, they know which side of that that line that they're sitting on. Yes, yes, Number seven, you must enjoy attending twelve funerals per week. Wow. Right, be aware you'll. Probably be expected to say something at all of them too, right, So right, yeah, funerals. They're like your favorite thing, aren't they They are not? No, no, no, okay, but I just wish somebody would. Okay, it's kind of like it's. Kind of like death and taxes. Right, It's like it's job security for anybody who does funerals. Okay. Number eight, you must possess a willingness to suffer all things for the sake of gospel, including weekly conversations with Steve. Right whoever Steve is. Oh, you know who you are. Steve, but he has a Steve everybody. And then number nine you must have read the Bible at least once. This is kind of important, right, This is kind of important. So if you check all the boxes listed above, you may have what it takes to be a pastor. Just make sure you're a Christian first, oh. My goodness yours, and have read the Bible at least once. At least once. So hey, if you're one of our listeners and you're wondering should you go into the ministry, well, those nine would be bare minimums. Yes, bare minimums would be so funny. Yeah, that is ministry gold. I'm telling you whoever wrote that has been around church world for a very very long time. Because pastors we have our own just like everybody, right, you know, like you know, electricians have their own little inside jokes, lawyers, attorneys, cab drivers, I mean, everybody does, office workers, dental assistants. And I'm telling you that's that's right there, it's right in the niche. Yeah. If if you've never gone to Babylon B, you should. You should go check it out. Very very funny Babylon b dot com and the headlines are hysterically funny. I was going to read some headlines, but I'm not going to read them. You should go check them out. Yeah, they do a lot of political commentary, a lot of political satire. They've been shut down by most of the social media companies over the last couple of years at various times for quote unquote fake news, which is hysterically funny because it's a satire website, right, right, so everything they write is fake, right, But it's it's it's just a. Really funny, funny group of people. So Okay, well, hey, we are not talking about a funny topic today. Well we're going from laugh to not. It's not funny, ha ha, but it is kind of funny, weird. It's kind of odd, yeah, a little spooky. Yeah, well it's kids. It's all consulting a medium. Yeah. Now, hey, before we even dive into this topic, I know this is like probably a controversial topic for some people. Uh did anybody has anybody in your family ever gone to like a poem reader or a psychic or a fortune teller. No, all the time, in my family, really all the time. Yeah, not even in your current household. Yes, wow, yes, I have a very big family. First of all. Yeah, yeah, I say in your household. Oh not my household, not like my I was like three chills. I was like, well, we should have brought this up in the interview. Right, No, I'm talking about my immediate face. What should I do for Christmas series this year? Right? Right? Let me look at your poem? Oh this right? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, so yes, I mean I I U. I mean it probably has been a few years, but I would say in the last five years I probably have had at least two family members that I know of who went either to a fortune teller or a psychic. Oh yeah, yeah, well Saul does and it costs him a lot. So we're reading in First Samuel, chapter twenty eight, and we'll just read. Looks like the whole chapter says about that time the Philistines mustered their armies for another war with Israel. King Aikish, he was the king of the Philistines, told David, let me just tell you the David was. Hiding out from Saul. Decided that for a while the heat was too too much, and so he went and hit out in the Philistine region. And in order to hide there, he would pretending. To be the enemy of Saul in the front of the film, yeesh. And he was raiding all kinds of enemy villages. But he kept telling King Aikish that he was raiding you know some of the suburban Jewish villages and stuff like that. So anyways, he had this really weird relationship with King Akish, and Akish thought David's an ally, and David wasn't. He was doing his own thing and living in the area. So that being said, King Akish told David, you and your men will be expected to join me in battle. Very well, David agreed. Now you will see for yourself what we can do. Then Aikish told David, I will make you my personal bodyguard for life. Meanwhile, Samuel had died and all Israel had mourned for him. He was buried in Rama, his hometown, and Saul had banned from the land of Israel all mediums and those who consult the spirits of the dead. The Philistines set up their camp at Shunem, and Saul gathered all the army of Israel and camped at Gilboa. When Saul saw the vast Philistine army, he became frantic with fear. He asked the Lord what he should do, but the Lord refused to answer him, either by dreams or by sacred lots, or by their prophets. So Saul then said to his advisors find a woman who is a medium, so I can go and ask her what to do? His advisers replied, there is a medium at endoor. So Saul disguised himself by wearing ordinary clothing instead of his royal robes, and then he went to the women's home at night, accompanied by two of his men. I have to talk to a man who has died, he said, Will you call up his spirit for me? Are you trying to get me killed? The woman demand, you know that Saul has outlawed all the mediums and all who consult the spirits of the dead. Why are you setting a trap for me? But Saul took an oath in the name of the Lord and promised, as surely as the Lord lives, nothing bad will happen to you for doing this. Finally, the woman said, well, whose spirit do you want me to call up? Call up Samuel, Saul replied, And when the woman saw Samuel, she screamed, you deceived me. You are Saul, don't be afraid. The king told her, what do you see? I see a god coming up out of the earth. She replied, what does he look like? Saul said, he's an old man wrapped in a robe. She replied. Saul realized it was Samuel, and he fell to the ground before him. Why have you disturbed me by calling me back, Samuel asked Saul, because I am in deep trouble. Saul replied, the Philistines are at war with me, and God has left me and won't reply by prophets or dreams, so I've called for you to tell me what to do. But Samuel replied, why ask me? Since the Lord has left you and has become your enemy. The Lord has done just as he said he would. He has torn the kingdom from you and given it to your rival, David. The Lord has done this to you today because you refuse to carry out his fierce anger against the Amalekites. What's more, the Lord will hand you and the army of Israel over to the Philistines tomorrow, and you and your sons will be here with me. The Lord will bring down the entire army of Israel and defeat Saul fell full length on the ground, paralyzed with fright because of Samuel's words. He was also faint with hunger, free to eating nothing all day and all night. When the woman saw how distraught he was, she said Sir, I obeyed your command at the risk of my life. Now do what I say, and let me give you a little something to eat so you can regain your strength. For the trip back. But Saul refused to eat anything. And then his advisers joined the woman and urging him to eat, so he finally yielded and got up from the ground and sat on the couch. And the woman had been fattening a calf, so she hurried out and killed it, and she took some flour and kneaded it into dough baked on leaven bread. She brought the meal to Sol and his advisers and they ate it, and then they went out into the night. There's a lot there. Okay, yeah, there's a lot there. And so first of all, Saul decides to do something that he knows is wrong. Right, let's just let's just uh right. So let's just start with the fact that Saul was so desperate to uh, you know, uh not do the right thing. Right. It's like it's almost like the last thing that Saul wants to do is repent. The last things all wants to do is fall to his knees and say, oh God, let me just do whatever it is that you will, you know, if it's your will that David should win, and let me just hand over the kingdom to David or whatever it is. But we don't see any evidence of that. The only thing we see is a couple chapters ago and a couple of podcasts ago. David comes out of the cave spares Saul's life, and Saul publicly says, oh, David, you're such a good guy. And then Saul basically says the same thing again because David refuses to kill him, and then all of a sudden, we launched it in the next chapter, and David's fearful of his life again and has to run into the Philistine camp or the cities right of Gath. So it almost seems like the last thing that Saul actually wants to do is to do what is right, and he's so desperate to do anything, and he's so mournful. He's mournful because he no longer has God's blessings in his life. He's so sorry that he doesn't have favor. He's so sad that David has favor. It's almost like he has all the head knowledge of Christianity and of God and of church culture that be us today. Right, But yet he fails to understand the one thing that God wants, which is just complete and utter surrender of your will and the consulting directly to God. But there's no evidence of that. We don't see anything where Saul falls to his knees and says, God, please help me and forgive me of everything that I've ever done. Yeah, in Saul's life, it was only ever about him, it was never about God. And so even God was a tool. Yeah, right, God was a tool for Saul. And then when God finally said, Hey, I'm not going to talk to you anymore, You're you're not getting any any indication of what you should do next. I'm not going to send you any prophets. I'm not going to answer any of your dreams. I'm not gonna you know, the the casting of the lots was the was it the it was a priestly garments, remember them? And the thumbum? Is that what it was called? I think there's notes here in the and and so. So sometimes they would do, uh, it's almost like a rolling of the dice, just kind of a well we have this option or this option which one? Right? So even then God wouldn't give any guide He wouldn't give them any guidance at all, Saul. And so Saul decides he's going to go to a witch. He's going to go to sometimes she's called the witch of Indoor, right, or or this medium. And it's really amazing because early in his in his life leadership, he banned all witches, all sorcerers, all wizards. All mediums. He banned them all. And then, hey, isn't Endoor in Return of the Jedi? Isn't that where the Ewoks were? Was it? I think that was the planet of Endor? Yeah, well, sorry about maybe maybe they borrow interrupt thought, maybe they borrowed that. From this this name? What planets? You gotta be kidding me? Were the ewoks on? Okay? It was Endoor, the forest, the forest Moon of Endor. It's such a good name. So that that's what happened. So and then he did that, he banned all of them, not just because it was a political move, but because in in Deuteronomy and in Exodus, it made it really clear, one, you don't consult witches and mediums. You don't go and fuller with witchcraft at all. As a matter of fact, when it came to two sorcerers and witches, they were supposed to be put to death. It was a death penalty. Yeah, yeah, specifically outlying anyone who consults with the dead Deuteronomy eighteen and Extodus twenty two. Right, And you know what's so interesting is that something that may get overlooked here, but it says that the woman shrieked when she saw Saul, right, and so people or excuse me, sorry Samuel, then she realized it was Saul. Right. But people often have asked me over the years and said, wow, I guess this woman did have power. And if she has power, that's outside of God, like you know, satanic power, forces of evil power, you know those kinds of things, anything outside of God. You know, how could she call up Samuel? But yet she shrieked when she saw Samuel. And I have to believe that it was a combination of this was different. I believe that God probably used in my opinion and say so, but in my opinion, I believe that God probably used something bad or evil and decided to use this for good. And I think that God was the one that brought back Samuel. Yeah, because because I don't think that this. I think it's way too much credit to give to this woman, even if she did have powers of darkness, uh, to accomplish this, you know, to actually get a hold of Samuel and and you know the Samuel from you know Heaven, you know, eternity with God and uh. Yeah. So I just believe the reason why she probably shrieked is because she probably wasn't used to what she just saw. Oh absolutely, she she was, like you know, she was. She would have been accustomed to the demons that brought her messages and all of a sudden to see the real Samuel would have freaked her out right, even even in that level. So yeah, I think that you know, when when you're dealing with people that are fooling around with witchcraft, there are the ones who fool around with it they don't really know what they're doing. But there's the others. You know. I was just in. Togo and Benin, where voodoo is the national religion, and it's very very real. The kind of witchcraft that they're doing, and there's a lot of that kind of stuff is very real. But they know that they're dealing with demons, right They're trying to appease the demons. They're trying to get the demons to do them favors, and they know that they're dealing with demons. And this woman would have known the same thing. Right, So people working witchcraft, they know that they're dealing with demons. They might lie to you and tell you, oh, this is a good thing, not a bad thing. But that's what Satan does. Satan's the father of lies. Everything he does is always a twist of the truth. He never tells the truth. He takes truth and twists it in order to have it be a lie. And so there are people who have spiritual power that are able to tap into the spiritual realm, but it's always from an evil perspective. And in this instance, I. Think that this is similar to when Jesus was on the Mountain of Transfiguration and God sent Moses and Elijah to minister to him. Right right, he God can say, okay, hey, this thing is going on and we need to send a message to Saul. And so Samuel I needs to go back and take this message. Because Samuel seems a little put out, doesn't he. Yeah, he says, hey, why have you deserved me? Well? First calling me back. Come on, man, I think I made. Reference to this a long time ago when we talked through the New Testament. But remember how John Chris talked about Lazarus coming back and he says, what kind of a what kind of a day was that for Lazarus to leave Heaven and say, uh, you know, we're going to send you back, right, but you know, because that's not a good that's not a good day to go back to Earth for reading heaven. But can you imagine Samuel, I mean, you know, Samuel's with God and then all of a sudden, he says, hey, but what's going on? I'm in a tent whife. You disturb me right right? So it's it's you know, hey, apparently you wanted me so bad that somehow I'm here. And you know, I believe that God is the one that brought him there. But can you imagine somebody looking at you. Let's not overlook this fact. And Samuel says, hey, tomorrow you're gonna be with me. Yeah, that's you and your sons. You and your sons. Hey, by the way, what do you think that means? Do you think that means that Samuel still goes or excuse me, Saul still goes to heaven like because you know, there there's a question, because you know, if if Samuel is with God and then and then Samuel says, hey, tomorrow, you'll be here with me, could it be that Saul was a God fearing man who just lost his way and yet still is spared even though that he ran away from God. Yeah, good thing. God's the judging that me, right right. I don't know, right, I don't know it. Certainly Samuel is saying tomorrow you're going to be dead too, right right. That's because that's it's the one thing we know, right right, That's that's the part we know, right. So I'm not sure beyond that what would have happened. It is interesting to think about it. God is good. I think you have if you look at it, you have Jonathan. The Bible says, feared the Lord his son, right right. And so it seems like Samuel is saying to both those who didn't fear God and those who did, you're both going to be with me. It seems like he's saying that you're both you're all going to die, right right, you and your sons. That that seems to be the reference he's making. He's not making a heaven or hell declaration. I don't think, because I think you have very very different people involved their circumstances. But I don't know, I don't know what it's talking about. So I think it's important for us to just say the Bible is very clear. If you're tempted by you know, palm readers and people who claim to communicate with the dead and all that kind of stuff, the Bible is really clear. Those are things not just to be avoided. Those things had capital punishment consequences, right death penalty. Things God says, do not mess around with this stuff, and others would dismiss it. Oh, that's just silly, it's fake, it's not right. So there's the physical realm in the spiritual realm. When humanity sinned, we lost the ability to really to spend time in the spiritual realm. But it's very real, and the devil will for what we'll trade a little bit of information, he'll trade a little bit of power to people in order to have influence and to perpetuate a lie among groups of people with regard to fear, with regard to you know, rejecting God or following after demons or whatever. And it's a very very very real thing. So don't play with it, don't don't mess around with it. And in this situation, God chose in the middle of Saul deciding he was going to flirt with this medium thing and try to get information. God decided, Okay, in that moment, I'm gonna freak everybody out, Samuel is going to show up. Right right, And once again Samuel holds a prophecy for Saul. Yeah, right, And on the back end, he says, the Lord has done everything that he told you to do. This is the ultimate I told you so, right, right? I mean, think about how many times we want to say I told you so. Samuel gets the he's the only one whoever got the opportunity to come back from the dead, which means drop the mic, I told you so much, right, and and he says, yeah, and then this is what's going to happen tomorrow. So once again, Samuel is still fulfilling his role as a prophet by uh as a judge. He was a judge. He was a judge. Yeah, with prophetic power, who's able to say and here's what else is going to happen. So Saul then with no doubt thought, okay, like it's probably going to come true. He believes Samuel at this point, Yes, he knows that this is his last day. And the fact that she screams it really freaked her out too. So she's accustomed to the demons, but she's not a custom to actual truth happening, right, the real solution actually shows up. She's accustomed to the demons coming in and you know, doing some magic stuff, and the real Samuel shows up, she screams. So every once in a while I'll hear somebody say, see that stuff's real, because in the Bible happens. No. Even the lady who did it was accustomed to talking to demons freaked out. When she saw Samuel. Right, So what you're getting what she normally was peddling was not what happened on this day. What happened on this day was Legit was she normally pedaled to everybody else. Who ever came and gave her money was some kind of demonic falsehood. It wasn't real, right, And that's why she screams in this moment. So don't use this passage as a as a justification for Hey, some of this is legit, we should go and right, yeah, because it's not. And this is not congruent to the moment when Whoopi Goldberg finally heard Patrick Swayze in the movie Ghost. Oh no, what there's a moment where this person was peddling false things and then this supposed to be the moment where Patrick Swayze was actually a real ghost, and she's like, oh my goodness, it's real. But this is not congruent to this. Well, we finally got back to the movies. Yeah, there you go, Yeah, there it is. Well, hey, that is our time, and that was a fantastic exploration and there's some great warnings in there too, So hopefully we'll see you next time on the Bibble Gosh