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The Healthy Project is hosted by Corey Dion Lewis, Clinical Health Coach fora safety net hospital. Because of his experience working directly with patients in underserved communities, Corey felt the need to speak up address the issues, and provide solutions to improve the healthcare experience for the ones that need it the most. The Healthy Project Podcast addresses topics related to health equity, prevention, diversity, and literacy for healthcare professionals addressing today's and tomorrow's biggest challenges. Thought leaders, entrepreneurs, and industry experts share their approaches to transforming healthcare into something meaningful and lasting.
00:01.11
coreydionlewis
Hello everybody thank you for listening to the healthy project podcast I am your host Corey Deon Lewis um great guest with me today I have she's the founder of ah suicide prevention and um, ah suicide awareness. And social justice education company asto aki I have Isabelle Garcia with me today. Talk about this really important topic that I know Isabelle you're having a lot of conversations about but I feel like it's not a lot of conversations within the community about so um. Thank you so much for being here I really appreciate. It. Yes, you know so before we get into the topic at hand can you tell the people a little bit about yourself and what gets you up in the morning.
00:38.14
Ysabel Garcia
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Thank you.
00:51.63
Ysabel Garcia
Yes, so as you said my name is issalo Garcia you see her pronouns. Um and my work is um, basically about.
01:04.50
Ysabel Garcia
Spreading awareness about how social cultural and structural factors influence mental health in suicide how they create conditions for mental health issues and suicide to to happen specifically within the latina and black community. And ah part of that mission or goal is my lived experience within the mental health and psychiatric system. So I will say that's that that's part of or the main reason why I um I do this work is my story. Um, so I am an immigrant from the dominican republic I moved to the us fifteen years ago I didn't know english um I was a high school dropout. And the entire point of moving to the United States was well over there. You're gonna get the education that you need to get to be successful and you are gonna get better treatment. You're gonna get mental health treatment. And that didn't happen. Um, the education piece happened but the mental health treatment piece didn't go according to plan because two weeks after I moved to Springfield Massachusetts.
02:18.15
coreydionlewis
Um.
02:24.74
coreydionlewis
And write it.
02:33.92
Ysabel Garcia
I was already hospitalized in a psychiatric hospital and from there a journey I call it. My psychiatric journey started and that's when I realized that people like me suicidal people. Are um, treated ah Horrendously. There's a lot of discrimination and prejudice against us and a lot of Fear. So I have being in solitary confinement I have been physically restrained. I have dealt with cops just because I said that I wanted to die as a teenager. So yeah, that's part of my story and what gets me up in the morning though thinking about the injustices that I went through and how I don't want that to happen to anyone was especially people. Like me people with my my identities.
03:30.83
coreydionlewis
Right? I I used to appreciate that story so much because there are are a lot of people that feel the way you feel or felt the way you have felt and there's that fear of even telling someone because like you said of how they're going to be Treated. Or how they're going to be spoken to and unfortunately sometimes and correct me if I'm wrong, but it feels like when you express how you're feeling hey I'm not I am feeling suicidal. It is immediately lockdown and that may not be what you need.
03:55.45
Ysabel Garcia
And who.
04:08.29
coreydionlewis
And the moment.
04:10.20
Ysabel Garcia
Um, exactly So there is one of the things that I learned throughout my journey in the system was that oh like a lot of therapists social workers providers in general are. Kind of trained to believe that coercion and violence are the appropriate measures to help someone who wants to die which is ironic to me because how can that help somebody but there is something called Paternalism where is where the. So-called professional beliefs that they know better than the person they're helping so they might assume well one I know better I have all this knowledge about psychology or whatever and so I'm going to assume what you need and what you need right now is to be contained because you're a danger to yourself. And that is not for most part I will say 99% all the time that is not true. Actually. Um, Suicide is not even about physical death and I know that sounds.
05:19.90
Ysabel Garcia
Funny because it's like well it's in suicide about physical death intentional physical death. But again 99% of the time people are not really talking about physically dying. They're talking about situations experiences, environment spaces outside themselves.
05:21.14
coreydionlewis
Boom rhyme.
05:38.19
Ysabel Garcia
That need to die right? So that's one needs to die, not them not us. It's just that most of us don't have the language to express that. Um, and so what I needed at the time was curiosity I needed providers and in my family.
05:38.92
coreydionlewis
No.
05:55.89
Ysabel Garcia
And the people around me to be curious and to say Actually what do you mean when you say you want to die like what? what exactly is that because what I meant was that I was stressed out I was overwhelmed I was just there was too much pressure on me.
06:03.20
coreydionlewis
Man.
06:09.80
coreydionlewis
Write.
06:14.81
Ysabel Garcia
Also I was in a new country and I made it worse I was already suicidal when I moved to the Us but the assimilation the acculturation process. Ah no, knowing where I was I didn't know anything about the United States I 1 my con my my contents was the home alone movie and like pot star magazines and hollywood I didn't know what I was getting into.
06:41.80
coreydionlewis
Ah, if that was your context I can I can see why it was such a shock. Oh my God yeah.
06:47.78
Ysabel Garcia
So Of course I'm gonna be like even more lossing even more ah Frustrated. So What I needed at the time honestly was a curiosity and based on my conversations with the community most of what people need is that. Curiosity or the validation that things are hard and also that again is really not so much about us as people like dying is more about what is happening around us that we want to eliminate we want those things to die.
07:09.95
coreydionlewis
Um.
07:23.29
coreydionlewis
Right? right? I don't want people to miss that you know what you were you just talking about because I feel in my opinion when someone says I want to die general population believes they want to kill themselves and they're not even thinking about.
07:25.11
Ysabel Garcia
Um, yeah.
07:42.52
coreydionlewis
This person may be experiencing you know, um, physical abuse sexual abuse and it serves could be something going on in their life and like you said you didn't have the language they may not know how to deal with that. So The only way to deal with that is is By. Death and I feel like man is such a. It is such a hard conversation to have yeah and I and I understand that like I understand how it can be a conversation and that's why I have you on the podcast because you know how to have that conversation. Um.
08:20.90
coreydionlewis
Ah, but I think it's just so important that we we look outside of what's just in front of us of the words I want to kill myself and like you say be curious. Well why? what's going on and getting to the root of the problem.
08:34.51
Ysabel Garcia
Exactly exactly I Love how you set the root because that's where is at and the work that I do with Estoiaki is connecting the dots between mental Health suicide and Social justice.
08:41.38
coreydionlewis
Um.
08:52.87
Ysabel Garcia
And part of my work is talking about how social Justice is a huge part of suicidality especially among black and brown people and so as we were saying with a social justice approach. We don't.
09:00.84
coreydionlewis
Um.
09:03.26
coreydionlewis
Yeah.
09:11.60
Ysabel Garcia
We don't look at these suicidal thoughts as the problem more but is more about the situations the environments and the spaces driving people to consider death as an answer saying answers is as an as a response saying it an option.
09:26.37
coreydionlewis
Right? Can we talk about that a little bit so I know you focus a lot of your work on the Latina in the black community Now why is suicide prevention important in communities of color.
09:33.26
Ysabel Garcia
Yes.
09:41.72
Ysabel Garcia
So we know that suicide is actually a big issue in black and brown communities. Um, many people might not think so but it is and um. We know that suicide rates especially now they actually increase in 2021 after a 2 year decline there was a decline in suicide rates. But then there was this increase in 2021, especially among people of color. Black and brown people and young people. So we know that for instance, the suicide rates in indigenous communities are high. They are pretty high when in comparison to other racial and ethnic groups. But then we also look at. The latina and the black population and we see that those rates are also high. Um and for white people the rate actually decline. So while the suicide rates rose in 2021 for black and brown people for white people e even lower e decline. Um, we also know that youth that suicide rates for people aged 10 to 24 increase a lot for black people african american between.
11:08.82
Ysabel Garcia
2018 and 2021 same for latina people indigenous people too so now those I'm saying that is as off now but be even before even before years and years ago there um there has been a. Ah, suicide has been a huge issue with we see latina teenagers that have a high rate of suicide attempts too. Um, and so there's there's um, data also right out there that.
11:36.40
coreydionlewis
No.
11:47.40
Ysabel Garcia
That Ah basically says that this is a huge problem but in my work I don't necessarily prioritize the uncle numbers because I'm more into these stories but these stories also.
12:02.31
coreydionlewis
On.
12:06.89
Ysabel Garcia
Basically these stories also confirmed the numbers and by the versa. So when I think about my entire journey this fifteen fifteen years living in this country and all these stories that I have heard anecdotes all the conversations I have had throughout training my workshops my healing circles.
12:10.71
coreydionlewis
Write. Um.
12:26.34
Ysabel Garcia
Through Panels all these public speaking that I do I see it I see it. There are many many people who are suicidal and suicidal listen always mean in crisis.
12:32.12
coreydionlewis
Um.
12:40.67
Ysabel Garcia
Because yesterday what? what? What was it like a week ago ago I was I oh my god like I'll feel good right now. Do I want to die or what is it that has to die for me to feel alive I wasn't in crisis I was just asking questions to myself I want one needs to.
12:53.61
coreydionlewis
Um, ah.
12:59.61
Ysabel Garcia
To happen for me to to drive and keep going. So yeah.
13:04.92
coreydionlewis
Right? right? What? No I I love that I love that just asking questions. You know when what are some of the unique challenges that you've seen through your experience with working with people within you know, um, black and brown communities.
13:17.96
Ysabel Garcia
Um, yeah.
13:21.54
coreydionlewis
What are some of those challenges that you see that people face on a daily basis.
13:23.42
Ysabel Garcia
Yeah I really appreciate that question because part of my work is focusing on the social cultural influences of latina black mental health and suicidality. And I believe that there's not enough conversation about social cultural factors. For example, colorism and anti-blackness is huge huge in black and brown communities in general not just. Black and Latina but color is um this preference for lighter skin tones for instance, a among among our our group our racial and ethnic group this this obsession with european.
14:04.70
coreydionlewis
M.
14:16.88
Ysabel Garcia
Ah, standards of Beauty The anti-blackness this this again. That's connected to Anti-blackness um ah, believing that the closer you are to blackness the oglier you are or the less competent. You are. Um, or the the less Smart. You are all these beliefs are par are part of the culture and they a lot of times when especiallyly Jews they might go to therapy and they might be told well you just have a lot self-esteem. Yeah, or can we call that Colorisa can we call that anti-blackness. Can we call that the root the actual problem as you mentioned the root the root of the problem is a loss of esteem or is a colorism that was part of my journey too.
14:58.81
coreydionlewis
Right.
15:14.82
Ysabel Garcia
All the issues social cultural issues that I wanted dead. That's what the kids that I wanted to die never come up never came up in therapy. Never right? Um, another issue which can be good and bad. This is.
15:18.72
coreydionlewis
Right.
15:32.88
Ysabel Garcia
This can be considered both a protective and risk factor is famism and famism is huge in in Latina families and it definitely affects met their mental or mental Health and Faism is about this. Obligation and loyalty to family where there's a lot of collectivism but collectivism to a point where it can be hurtful because then let's say our needs. We might forget about them and just focus on the other person's need.
15:53.17
coreydionlewis
O.
16:11.69
Ysabel Garcia
Especially the parents or the grandparents. So there's a lot of there's a lot of social emotional support for the people around you. Your family can be also financial support. So there's a lot of.
16:20.60
coreydionlewis
Ah.
16:30.24
Ysabel Garcia
There's a lot of emphasis on responsibility and what you can do for the family. A lot of it like the whole focus is family family is mes um, of course there's also a simulation in acculturation that a simulation almost kill me.
16:37.11
coreydionlewis
Right.
16:49.45
Ysabel Garcia
Was the thing that almost killed me not me assimilation was didn't almost ye me which is when ah you know as an immigrant I came here to this country and I was like well how do I fit in because apparently my accent is too thick.
16:52.50
coreydionlewis
You talk about it.
17:07.33
Ysabel Garcia
Apparently I don't look like anyone apparently. Ah, apparently I cannot speak Spanish in public Apparently like I guess what do I do now? what right? So my my thing was well let me let me be let me be let me be.
17:08.20
coreydionlewis
For me.
17:17.30
coreydionlewis
Um, right? What can I do? yeah.
17:26.10
Ysabel Garcia
As close to whiteness as I can so I stop speaking spanish I will blow dry my hair so it will be straight um a bunch of different things I almost changed my name from Isabelle to Isabelle with an I so my name isabel's widow is with a y.
17:42.11
coreydionlewis
Boom.
17:45.22
Ysabel Garcia
I almost changed it to Isabel with an eye when I became a citizen you can do that when you become a citizen you can change your your name legally I almost did that right because I wanted white people to pronounce my my name because they always messed most of the time they messed it up.
17:52.80
coreydionlewis
While.
17:58.80
coreydionlewis
Right? right.
18:05.10
Ysabel Garcia
Right? But that's part of a simulation fully adopting the the dominating culture the new culture. Ah Marianismo Machiso is definitely oh my gosh. Definitely an influence for the mental health of especially.
18:09.90
coreydionlewis
Right here.
18:23.11
Ysabel Garcia
Latine but like the Aspora did Theaspora ah where you see gender roles are very are a very strong component of of the culture where you have the man is supposed to do this um supposed to be the wanting control. They won't in the.
18:39.37
coreydionlewis
Right.
18:41.95
Ysabel Garcia
Very stereotypical and women are supposed to be in the home and doing the cooking again. Very stereotypical. But marianismo is often not talked about not as much as machismo but they both come together marianis more basically the standards for women. Like it comes from this concept of the virgin Mary that's why it's it's called marianismo um, Maria Virgin Mary so yeah, yeah, in is huge.
19:01.57
coreydionlewis
Um, okay.
19:10.29
coreydionlewis
Oh okay, got it got. That's so interesting is huge and you know what that leads into my that's a great um, lead into my next question and that is the the strong influence of cultural belief. Um. And I know that in the black community. It's you're not Ai n't done wrong with you. You're just hungry ain't no around with you. Um, you haven't prayed hard enough. You know there. There's all those things of is not your mental health. It is something else and we don't talk about mental health because. Ah, whatever reasons that were you know past traumas of people in um, african-american communities and cultures. But what does that look like that cultural belief and um in attitudes that prevent people from seeking the help. That they need and what can people do like how how does how does that work within what you do.
20:08.90
Ysabel Garcia
Yeah, part of what can become a barrier to talk to talking about mental Health openly um is what I just talk about famism and definitelyly Marianismo Machimo. And religion I forgot to mention religion. But those 3 are the ones that I see the most um the the the elements that give that that create those the most barriers for our people to talk about mental Health especially with parents with um older generations.
20:41.20
coreydionlewis
Um.
20:47.71
Ysabel Garcia
Um, so with famism. There's a lot of secrecy a lot of do not bring shame to the family. You don't have to talk about this with anybody else. So it's often a barrier for therapy for all for for especially Jews who want to explore.
20:54.20
coreydionlewis
Yeah.
21:05.78
Ysabel Garcia
Therapy as an option. There might be a lot of resistance from parents. There might be um I don't like to generalize an entire quarter but they might be a a this thing about why? Why are you talking about problems to a strangerer like we are family. We you should should come to us.
21:10.87
coreydionlewis
Right.
21:23.86
coreydionlewis
Um.
21:25.69
Ysabel Garcia
You should always come to us. Ah, but then when they they write. But then maybe the unless say the Jews come to they come to the parents and then there's no de valididation that are're seeking So it's like Okay, so.
21:36.00
coreydionlewis
Right.
21:42.14
Ysabel Garcia
Ah, with Marianis Mo and machi most of we know we machimo there's ah, there's definite a little lot of pressure on man. There's a lot of pressure on a man and and this idea that you can. You cannot talk about your feelings. You cannot cry even like.
22:01.28
coreydionlewis
Um.
22:01.51
Ysabel Garcia
Crying the action of crying ah with with women. There might be a little bit more opportunity to show emotions quote unquote but still, there's there's still pretty much. Overall this idea that you shouldn't talk about that.
22:15.93
coreydionlewis
Right.
22:21.34
Ysabel Garcia
Um, now I will say 1 thing that I do offer as a reframe is that yes we as a culture might have these lawyers to talking about mental health but I do believe we do talk about mental health. Ah, little bit just but just in a different way. So many times we talk about mental health from the physical point of view. So someone might say ah, especially in in spanish for Latinas who speak spanish.
22:43.53
coreydionlewis
Um.
22:59.53
Ysabel Garcia
Um, attack and Anders Tengu Attacker Nes which means I'm having a nerverf attack which from the if you use the psychology whatever language it might be panic attack but they're saying nerf attack. Okay, and so.
23:07.21
coreydionlewis
Um, in.
23:17.38
Ysabel Garcia
Ah, lot of times I might be met with oh take drink this tea drink crossmerity because those are our remedies and that's what we have been used to. Okay so you are your nervous system is acting up you drink this tea problems often. Obviously there's more.
23:33.26
coreydionlewis
Um, right? yeah right.
23:37.20
Ysabel Garcia
There's more to it. There's their roots. The root is not going to disappear with a t but what I'm trying to say is that there are there are definitely conversations about Mental Health is just not necessarily the way that it is promoted in social media like with this very specific.
23:52.45
coreydionlewis
Right.
23:56.11
Ysabel Garcia
Language very specific like depression right? me my mom might not talk about depression but she might be like Wow I have this huge headache and like I don't feel like getting up right? like there's there has to be some. Ah.
24:07.19
coreydionlewis
Write more.
24:14.64
Ysabel Garcia
Quote Unquote translation not necessarily of languages but of of like our vocabulary when it comes to mental health because it might not be the same and I think that's fine is just how do we? How do we? um, find a common ground like I call it depression. What do you call it I.
24:19.89
coreydionlewis
Right.
24:34.18
Ysabel Garcia
Call it I'm sorry what do you call it? Okay, so maybe we're talking about the same thing Ray so that's how the way I see it.
24:39.30
coreydionlewis
Why you ride right? We can still have the conversation but I have to meet you where you're at and speak your language so we can because I I feel like for for a lot of for a lot of people. When you're talking about hey my my nerves are bad or you know have this tea. That's very surface. It's like it. It's a very surface thing. It's still, but it's a step in the right direction. Okay, we're doing something so but how do you make that next step to continue that conversation to where it doesn't feel like.
25:05.99
Ysabel Garcia
Why why? I.
25:15.84
coreydionlewis
Oh no I don't want to talk about this note note note we're not doing that youre to mean how can we make that next step and having a different having a different conversation within the conversation. Ah.
25:26.35
Ysabel Garcia
Right? right? And yeah and I totally I Totally I Barly get what you're saying yeah is because it's really is really about I call this holy multiple truths. That's how I call it. Ah, because you have your truth I have my truth can we meet it in the middle is there a common understanding of something I don't believe in this idea of changing people's minds I that's too much pressure. That's a lot that's a lot change. Ah, someone's upbringing.
25:49.14
coreydionlewis
Um, right.
25:57.26
coreydionlewis
Right. Oh My gosh. Yeah Wein't got time for that. Yeah.
26:03.26
Ysabel Garcia
Like their entireization I'm not I'm not gonna change my mom's soization. My Mom almost seventy like listen what we can do is to clarify Clarify. What is it that we're talking about here I Really think it's about clarification. Um, so this is what I do especially if when you're having a conversation about mental Health and so on and someone is like yeah volaos and excess or whatever or maybe you are brain dramatic Or. You have a housing event I don't know why you're complaining blah Blah Blah. So Usually when people talk about mental Health Whatever it is. They're providing a solution. We might not agree with our solution but they're providing a solution my mom when my mom.
26:43.41
coreydionlewis
Um, yeah.
26:55.52
coreydionlewis
Right? right.
26:58.31
Ysabel Garcia
Here's the Tea. She's providing a solution for me that is not a solution right? That's not a solution to me. Um, this whole idea of what you already have a bed and a house. Well, that's not enough for me. Maybe that's enough for you. Okay, so let's talk about Let's talk. But exactly what is the problem solution that the person is offering so we have to we have to grab that from the conversation. What exactly are we talking about here. Ah then the other thing we have to do is okay what information is missing. From this person's perspective and how do we add the information so it's not about you are wrong I have to change your mind. It's about there is information missing here and I want to add to your worldview I Want to add information.
27:40.30
coreydionlewis
Oh.
27:56.60
Ysabel Garcia
That you might not have and so that's how I introduce it so when my mom says well um, let's say someone says depression Dawson excess I'm like um.
27:57.20
coreydionlewis
Right.
28:15.94
Ysabel Garcia
Well I want to I Want to add something to that can I do that and I ask for consent like I have I I Absolutely see it differently I Want to add to that I want to add to it. Ah so again, not about fighting or anything just I just want.
28:21.55
coreydionlewis
Um.
28:30.18
coreydionlewis
Right? Yeah, it seems so non-confrontational and you can you have a ah very fruitful conversation about.
28:35.91
Ysabel Garcia
Um, information that I I have like that's it.
28:46.57
Ysabel Garcia
And so another piece of this is so for me when I think about depression I think about right not sleeping a lot nor feeling not feeling like taking a shower feeling this and that how would you call that.
28:47.23
coreydionlewis
This topic.
29:05.66
Ysabel Garcia
I'm wondering how would you call it right? It's it's about curiosity. It's about translation. It's right like So it's also how we get into the combo like our our minds are getting into the combo because if we're going in. You're wrong and I'm right.
29:06.97
coreydionlewis
Ride. Yeah.
29:23.70
coreydionlewis
Yeah, yeah, it just shuts it shuts it down it shuts it shuts it down.
29:24.27
Ysabel Garcia
Then you know less probably it is I'm yeah like and I see that along with Ju and the older generation with genste millennials and then how do we call a baby boomers or whatever like I see that intergenerational.
29:36.50
coreydionlewis
Momu.
29:44.80
Ysabel Garcia
Tension and so part of my work is also talking about this how to embrace embrace that that tension in in these conversations. But basically once you figure out what is the solution or problem that this person is.
29:44.27
coreydionlewis
Um, right.
30:02.49
Ysabel Garcia
Putting in this space and then what information you want to add then you go to the last step which is basically looking at both things So like. For instance, how can we honor the the fact that um you Think. What I call depression doesn't exist and me believing that it does like how can we? How can then we work together then right like how how can we coex access knowing that you have this truth and I have this truth So again.
30:23.88
coreydionlewis
Right? right.
30:39.59
Ysabel Garcia
Is more about opening the door. It's not about becoming a wall. We want to become mirrors. Not no walls. We want to learn to reflect each other reflect each other. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
30:48.55
coreydionlewis
Um I like that I like that. So for for those people that um aren't shy about talking about how they feel right? You know in. But how can is there a right or wrong way with having a conversation about suicidal thoughts or talking to someone who may be expressing that they're having suicidal thoughts is there a right or wrong way.
31:16.48
Ysabel Garcia
Yeah, so I will say I wouldn't so you know what's interesting interesting I Love this question too because I wouldn't say that there is a right way I definitely say I Definitely think that there are things that are being taught in some trainings that are like no like I wouldn't.
31:36.70
coreydionlewis
Um, you have so.
31:36.42
Ysabel Garcia
Or because I don't find them culturally relevant or whatever but I also wouldn't say that the approach I use which is peer support. That's the approach that I used to talk about suicide I wouldn't say it's perfect. But I like it. It has worked for me has worked for. The the people I support. Um and so having said that they are things that we can definitely say that can interrupt a suicide and 1 thing that I want to I want to say before I go into into what that is or how that looks like is. You don't have to be a therapist to help interrupt a suicide. You don't have to you don't have to be a so-called quote unquote professional, um, most ah, most of professionals don't even know how to talk about suicide in the first place. Ah because we leave. Ah, suicide prevention or whatever we want to call it is noting a lot of college curriculums for formenta health counselors and social workers and just overall it's actually not a popular subject in College Curriculums it's very rare.
32:43.86
coreydionlewis
Um.
32:54.45
Ysabel Garcia
To cease suicide in a college curriculum. He says there are colleges who do have it but it's very rare. Okay, so if you think that well a professional is better equipped. No no, no really, they might take trainings.
33:00.12
coreydionlewis
Um.
33:07.90
coreydionlewis
Right.
33:11.51
Ysabel Garcia
In their workplace. But those trainings are also often again, not culturally relevant or they promote some form of coercion control or what I call white supremacy culture which is another Oh God That's another entire different. Topic or Monster. Yes, So okay, so having said all of this there are ways one that you can ask and the question the this this very thisque this taboo question of are you suicidal because many.
33:32.22
coreydionlewis
That's part 2 Ah, but.
33:48.68
Ysabel Garcia
People are not ready to hear the answer if it's yes, they're not ready but they want to ask it anyway. So I will say if you ask a question like that you have to do some internal work First you might want to take ah a few deep breaths.
33:53.50
coreydionlewis
Um.
34:04.43
Ysabel Garcia
You might want to remind yourself that this 99% of the time is not about the person. It's about something else outside of themselves that is happening to them that is causing this this this feeling of despair and pain I don't know as people are used suicidal I don't like that. Question because suicidal means many things So I'm not really asking I don't think I'm asking a direct question. So What I ask is how those being alive feel like right now. How those being alive feel like right now.
34:43.44
coreydionlewis
How does being a lie feel like right now and that can go in many different directions. Yeah.
34:47.85
Ysabel Garcia
That's it I want right in that is the point. The point is that they actually are like we're sa Alive Home lim. Okay. Let me think about ah ah because are you suicidal is just or no basically that's one two I Honestly, how does that open all the conversation because usually when you ask someone are you suicidal and they say yes.
35:04.40
coreydionlewis
Um, yeah.
35:21.36
Ysabel Garcia
The next question is do you have a plan and that is not really where the conversation in my opinion needs to go I don't think he has to it can go there but you can We can ask a different question for that. Um, many times where people talk about suicide. It becomes an interrogation.
35:22.82
coreydionlewis
35:40.84
Ysabel Garcia
Because we are seeing as criminals like we're committing some form of crime and we suddenly suddenly a lot of providers and people family friends getting to this interrogation type of mindset where it's like are you suicidal? yes.
35:41.29
coreydionlewis
Um, right.
35:58.94
Ysabel Garcia
Do you have a plan yes or no like wait. This is having a plan. All that stuff is way is is very complex. So um, 1 question that I ask or a statement is.
35:59.54
coreydionlewis
Right.
36:14.22
Ysabel Garcia
I Would like to hear this story of how you came to see Su I As an option I want to so I want to hear that story I want to hear that journey or.
36:18.40
coreydionlewis
Mamma. You know why? like that's so powerful. Isabel is that may be the first time someone when they're feeling that way that they're allowed to even tell their story like they're about man. No one's probably listened to them because their parents are their.
36:34.34
Ysabel Garcia
Exactly.
36:43.66
coreydionlewis
Families tell them. They ain know wrong with them or ah, they don't know who they can go to they they have all it man that is such a powerful question.
36:53.84
Ysabel Garcia
Yeah, yeah, yeah, also it might be that this person have have they have thought about dying before So how long has been thinking about suicide response for you. Um.
37:08.80
coreydionlewis
Um.
37:10.83
Ysabel Garcia
Another favorite question um of mine is which I have talked about already is what situations happening outside yourself give power to your suicidal thoughts because there's also a power dynamic going on. Ah, in a substantialial power dynamic where it's like there are things situations environment spaces that either make our suicidal thoughts empower or Powerless. So What can what? what can empower What is empowering those suicidal thoughts or.
37:29.40
coreydionlewis
Um.
37:47.34
Ysabel Garcia
W can make them power less because there's this idea we have to take your suicidal thoughts away under and oh come on like are you really gonna dismantle colorism. Ah in entire are you gonna dismantle racism right now because those those are often.
37:52.64
coreydionlewis
Right.
37:58.69
coreydionlewis
Right.
38:06.53
Ysabel Garcia
Again, Those Social Culturaltural St Structureral factors are often the root causes of suicidality and mental health in black and brown communities. So you're gonna dismantle all of that I don't listen i'mrealistic I'm like what can make them a little bit power less like what what is out there.
38:22.25
coreydionlewis
Boom.
38:25.96
Ysabel Garcia
Can we think about that um, another question that I like to ask but this is more for providers to be honest, this question is when you think about Suicide What do you see or what do you imagine instead of asking people. Do you have a plan are you gonna do it.
38:46.85
Ysabel Garcia
Ah, what do you think? what? what? when you think about Suicide What do you? What do you think about? what do you imagine just just curious when I think about Suicide I Think about my funeral I see myself in the casket I see the people in the funeral.
38:52.70
coreydionlewis
M.
39:05.48
Ysabel Garcia
But guess what thinking about my funeral is actually a protective factor against Suicide for me because after I see myself in the casket ripe which is very can be very scary I Also think about people reading their eulogies about me.
39:15.71
coreydionlewis
Is enough.
39:24.73
Ysabel Garcia
And saying how awesome I was and how funny I was and how intelligent I was and that reminds me Wow I Actually do have people that care about me I forgot so this is why we cannot make assumptions also about the so-called.
39:25.63
coreydionlewis
A.
39:42.20
Ysabel Garcia
Plants or whatever because for all, you know it can have a protective um, element to it. So yes, thinking about my funeral in my actual suicide Actually those help me prevent suicide but isn't that.
39:56.48
coreydionlewis
What is super entry but it makes sense though like to me, you know it makes sense as you're thinking about that and you're thinking about the I know this person is going to tell that story about me or you know what? whatever the case may be it can buy Oh wow.
39:59.61
Ysabel Garcia
Interesting.
40:14.51
coreydionlewis
There are people that actually care about me and care about my well-being and um I don't want to die.
40:16.27
Ysabel Garcia
Oh yes, so there said there can be a twist to all of these so-called suicidal thoughts. Well we have to be creative and we have to be open about it So you someone where to say yeah I think about my funeral I see myself in the casket.
40:23.39
coreydionlewis
Plus no. Right.
40:34.45
Ysabel Garcia
Ah, provider family or friend can be like how about the eulogies I Wonder what they say have you thought about the eulogies you know often sometimes people talk they say very nice things I Wonder if you have thought about that part right? we can. We can be creative. About about these things. Um, another thing is suicide note so I have a suicide note on my nice dad A lot of people will look at that and be like holy crap we need to hospitalize you little do they know he also prevents my suicide. Because when I look at my suicide know on the nice then it gets me control because I'm like you know what I can be out at any moment and sometimes that's my only source of power and control over my life. So when I don't feel in control.
41:16.60
coreydionlewis
In.
41:30.20
Ysabel Garcia
In areas of my life where I'm like ah there's nothing I can do I look at a suicide know and I remind myself actually I do't have power I can live at any time Guess what? it prevents my suicide because it gets me this this idea of having an option.
41:38.28
coreydionlewis
A.
41:48.64
Ysabel Garcia
So many people don't want to go there because it's scary I get it I get it. It's scary knowing that Isabel thinks is an option but just the fact that I think is an option gives me that control I need to keep going so again well have a.
41:52.59
coreydionlewis
Um, right.
42:05.51
Ysabel Garcia
Know that we know that because of conversation because we are opening this dialogue in this door to having these scary conversations. Um another one another question that I really like is um. How Ah, So once you ask when you think about Suicide What do you see or what do you imagine? it might be that this person says right? like I already mentioned the funeral. It might be that the person says well I see I see this I see it's using it.
42:34.40
coreydionlewis
Right.
42:42.89
Ysabel Garcia
Y and C to die I see myself using um a method imagine whatever method you can you know think of so have those that image or dream or nimer. However, you're calling it. Um.
42:50.67
coreydionlewis
Right.
43:02.28
Ysabel Garcia
Distances you from wanting to stay alive and so also looking at this as distancing like as as a movement that helps me a lot again. It's not this binary of. Do you want to die or not is's like okay.
43:16.94
coreydionlewis
Right? right.
43:20.76
Ysabel Garcia
So Let's let's look at this is like if we have a line right here. I Wonder how those thinking about X Y and C move. Ah distance you distances you from wanting to stay alive. Where would you be? This is so Also. Playing with us kind of metaphors. Um, Also it can be heavily these images about Suicide move you closer to wanting to stay alive right? in my case, a funeral. It's like yeah the eulogies actually um are are helpful.
43:49.97
coreydionlewis
Right.
43:57.53
Ysabel Garcia
Think about I cook keep going forever list I this is what I train about I have I have a 7 hour and a half training just about this stuff I could people all this forever. But yes, these are um, a couple of things that.
44:03.40
coreydionlewis
Ah, but.
44:08.13
coreydionlewis
Wow.
44:16.13
Ysabel Garcia
That that you can ask? Um, you know I Guess the last thing I will say a very powerful question is what problems will suicide solve for you because many times many times I forget that. Um, there are other options that are other form of responses that I can try like I Just forget I Get very like tonal be issue about no no, no, this is the only way I Forget oh wait a minute it. Also if these are. Problems that I want to make this appear would I still want to die if those problems could be solved and 100% of the time is no like I don't want I don't really want to physically die.
44:55.85
coreydionlewis
Right.
45:10.60
Ysabel Garcia
Is really I want I want racism to disappear. Obviously I want oppression to disappear Obviously um so obviously there's no like oh my God we're gonna solve oppression but are ah like at once.
45:10.71
coreydionlewis
Um, work. Yeah, right.
45:25.87
Ysabel Garcia
But like what are ah small things that we can do together or steps to take that can give that can give us some hope something some tend to look forward to a least I'm gonna shut up now like.
45:36.91
coreydionlewis
No So good. That's me to bill. That's so good and and those were some of the things that I wanted the audience to know because regardless of if we shove it under the rug or we pretend it's not there. These things are happening around us constantly and. There are people in our lives whether it be a family member or a friend a coworker that may be experiencing some of these things and if we don't have some of the words and the knowledge that you can bring to that you're bringing to the table in our tool Belt. We can't We can't help those people that we love so now I appreciate. Everything that you just said um and such a valuable valuable valuable insight and conversation. Um, Isabo again. Thank you so much for being on the podcast I Really appreciated it for anybody that wants to learn more about you. Um, about what you do with? ah. At Ostoel Aki where can they find you and where can they reach you.
46:38.72
Ysabel Garcia
Yes, if you want to know more about my training workshops healing circles. My services. You can go to estoydashakey.org there. You will find all all the information. Um. And if you want to follow me on social media then you can just go to estoakkillc Facebook Instagram Twitter linkedin tikt talk just ricetoyakki l lc is should show up. Um, um, I'm trying to do more educational stuff through social media is an extension of my workshops trainings and circles. So um, yeah I recommend following me there too. Yeah.
47:28.35
coreydionlewis
Yes, and I'll make sure I have all those ah links in the description of this episode so make it easy for people to get there as well. Yes, Isabel thank you so much for the time it was um, well worth the weight.
47:33.18
Ysabel Garcia
Perfect. Yes I will appreciate that.
47:44.82
coreydionlewis
Yeah, in the back and forth I didn't think it was going to happen but it happened. Ah thank you so much again and um, everybody Thank you for listening to the healthy project Podcast I holll at you next time.
47:49.44
Ysabel Garcia
I know I know.