Biology, Medicine and Health at the University of Manchester delivers high quality education and training for health professionals and life scientists, in partnership with the NHS and industry. Our research offers a multidisciplinary approach to biomedical and health science discoveries that have real global impact.
Welcome to the OneMed Learn podcast. Hello, and welcome to another podcast from Manchester Medical School. I am doctor Genevieve Shimwell, clinical lecturer and GP in the Manchester area. And I have 2 very important guests with me today, and I'll let them introduce themselves. Our podcast today is discussing the journey of being a doctor with a disability.
Dr Genevieve:So I'll hand over to our first guest first of all. Welcome, Georgia.
Georgia:Hi. My name is Georgia. I'm a a final year medical student at Manchester, and I'm really excited to be here. Thank you for coming.
Dr Imran:Hello. I'm Imran. I'm a GP, and I was a student at the University of Liverpool. I did spend a year at Manchester for 1 year as well. And I am also excited to be here.
Dr Genevieve:Thank you both very much for coming. It's a privilege to have you both here. So as we've touched on, this podcast is really discussing about, doctors living with a disability. But we're gonna focus today on how that impacted or the journeys of both Georgia and Inman before starting medical school. And we'll let you both have a little time to talk about your story, if that's okay.
Dr Genevieve:Inman, over to you, if you're happy to start.
Dr Imran:Yeah. Thank you very much. I, was born with a disability and have lived with that disability all my life. And growing up, my dad, even at the age of 5, was telling me, you are going to be a doctor. So when it actually came to it, I didn't actually think of anything else.
Dr Imran:And I didn't have anything else in my head. So I was like, oh, gosh. I'm gonna have to be a doctor. Wow. And it was quite interesting because they were always sort of, like, saw me as, you know, just the other kid, not someone with a disability.
Dr Imran:Yes. Obviously, they were aware of that, but they pushed me as someone who didn't have a disability and felt that there were no barriers and that I should be applying to to medicine, which is good, really. And that's kind of the mindset I had. So regarding my disability, at the moment, so my my body has deteriorated. But before medical school, I never used to use crutches.
Dr Imran:So I used to have a very obvious physical disability where I'd walk with a very obvious gait, so a limp, And to the point where, you know, people on the streets will make comments, sort of, you know, nasty comments and things like that. And I kind of just got used to that, and numb to that. It does affect me, and to this day, it still affects me. However, it's just something that I've had to deal with. So I applied to med school.
Dr Imran:So I applied around, when did I apply? Gosh. I'm old. So around 2004. So 2004.
Dr Imran:Yeah. So nearly 20 years ago. And so, I think that the kind of the benefit is as a doctor sorry. As so yes. As a doctor, or a person with a disability going into the field of medicine, is that you appreciate the patient's journey.
Dr Imran:So for myself, and that's really important. So and I guess that's highlighted when I applied. So we had UCAS forms. I think they still have them, don't they? Yes.
Dr Imran:They have UCAS. So, yeah, so we had UCAS, and I applied to that. I mentioned my disability, as well, And yeah. So that was kind of I guess, obviously, the positive of it is it kind of stood me out to say I've had these challenges in my life, and it's, you know, these personal touches in my life which sort of have shown me a path to medicine is what I want to be. So whether that I've seen doctors interact with me, whether that's, you know, seeing, you know, how the health care system as a team has worked, and these have been really positive.
Dr Imran:So, you know, there is a, you know, it wasn't all doom and gloom. There's a lot of positive from actually applying with a disability. And, you know, I I came from a family. So the the family I had in in the UK so I had my brother, and I had my 2 older cousins, and all of them went into medicine. So I felt like I had to go into medicine.
Dr Imran:Being Muslim as well, we get pushed into medicine. There's a few careers we get pushed into, medicine being one of them. So I kinda had to do it. I didn't want to be kind of the failure of the family. So there was a lot of pressure on me already.
Dr Imran:But I think from a disability point of view, it didn't impact me too much. I guess, because at that age, I didn't focus on it too much. Mhmm. So the the main impact happened when well, so what happened was I had surgery at about 17, 8 no. 18 years old.
Dr Imran:So 18 years old, I had surgery. So originally, I didn't get into medical medical school because my predicted grades weren't very good based on my GCSEs. So, yeah, GCSEs for for the younger viewers is an exam we used to do back in the day. So, so, because I don't are they still called GCSEs?
Georgia:I mine were called GCSEs.
Dr Imran:Oh, were they? But they're they're all in numbers now, aren't they though?
Dr Genevieve:They're they're graded differently.
Georgia:They're graded.
Dr Imran:They're graded.
Dr Genevieve:They're still called GCSEs. Oh, they're
Dr Imran:still called GCSEs. Okay. I can't keep up. Okay. So yeah.
Dr Imran:So, my predicted grades were good. So originally when I applied, I didn't get in. And then I had surgery, but I'd got my, grades then. So I wrote to all the universities and said, would you consider you know, I've got my grades. Would you consider sort of, you know, giving me an interview?
Dr Imran:And only, I think, 4 of them replied to say yes. I think the the rest in, which was enough for me. So then I came to Manchester Uni for a year, started biomedical sciences. So my plan was to do 3 years biomedical sciences and then go into medicine. So I was always planning to do that, but I applied whilst I was in Manchester.
Dr Imran:So I couldn't reapply to Manchester Medicine and then obviously went there. So I think because I spent a lot of time in cast as well, so sort of, I spent a year out and 9 months of that was in cast. And I think that was kind of I put that in my UCAS as well that I've had these issues, and this is my journey. And I suppose that gave my disability the personal touch, and they showed the personal touch it showed the personal touch to those who are on the other end of the UCAS reading those forms. Yeah.
Dr Imran:So I think that's the positive of it. And I kinda had to relearn how to walk again, but I was so determined at that age. Like, I'm really lazy now. Like, so lazy. It's not true.
Dr Imran:And I think GP has done that to me. So, but yes. And and I think that's one of the the key things. And I think I got to Liverpool University. So I think I went to the Holyoke interview.
Dr Imran:They didn't really ask too much about it. So the only question I remember from them was, if you had a budget, what would you spend that money on? And, obviously, for me, it was using my disability to say, you know, this is quite personal to me. That's what I would spend it on. So, and I guess that kind of stood out for me.
Dr Imran:So, actually, from a medical school point of view, that was a positive. And then I'd already got an offer from Hull York University. So, when I I was very sort of, like, relaxed going into the Liverpool interview, very jovial. And I remember, they asked me the question of, oh, how did you cope with being in CAS for 9 months, just being still on a bed for 9 months? And I basically just answered, Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
Dr Imran:Just binge watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer for for, like, 9 months, season 1, so whatever it was. And that got me through. It's just answers like that, so jokey answers. I wasn't probably taking it. And then my brother was sick at the same time.
Dr Imran:So after I'd answered that, I'd said, actually, I didn't focus on myself. I folk because I've always dealt with surgery after surgery after surgery, and I've always been you know, had this disability. My brother never did, and he was so unwell. And that's all I could think about was not myself. It's done.
Dr Imran:It was my brother. Yeah. And I think that kind of war term to say, actually, this is the person we like Yeah. Because it's not a case of me just saying, oh, the textbook answers. So why do you want to come into medical school?
Dr Imran:Well, I like teamwork and comm skills and
Dr Genevieve:all that stuff.
Dr Imran:It's it's stuff like, you know, this is personal to me. The reality is I've had a terrible year because I was not well. My brother was not well. My parents were crying all the time because, you know, they didn't know what was going on. It was just horrendous.
Dr Imran:And as a 18 year old who my maturity level is not, you know I'm not at the peak of my maturity level. It's how I deal with this.
Georgia:Yeah. But they got
Dr Genevieve:to see the real in my
Dr Imran:They've got to see the real personal. Yeah. And and I think that's quite kind of what helped me, actually. So although there's a lot of negativity with my disability of, you know, being abused and things like that, sort of, like, comments being made, Actually, from a medical school point of view, there's so much positive of well, using it to your advantage. Yeah.
Dr Imran:To to have a positive, really.
Georgia:Yeah. Yeah.
Dr Genevieve:And really interestingly, when you started off, you said that you were made to feel like there was no barriers by your parents.
Dr Imran:Yes.
Dr Genevieve:Which I think that's really struck out in you saying that. And and did did that stick with you through your teenage years and to keep your resilience up between really difficult times that you've, you know, you're explaining here?
Dr Imran:Yeah. Because as a as a so the the people I used to hang around with, they always used to play football. We played cricket. And, you know, the friends I had at school, they were really sporty as well. And so they were my interests.
Dr Imran:So I remember, like, one of my classmates in primary school, you know, for his birthday, we'd go rock climbing, and I went rock climbing as well. We used to go swimming every week. So I was quite sporty. Yes. Obviously, I wasn't quick because of my limp, but I tried Yeah.
Dr Imran:And I didn't see it. But I do remember actually in school, because I guess everyone in school were used to me, And I used to play for my cricket team. And I remember the first match I had, someone hit the ball, and I could just I just noticed like, I'm always aware that people are looking at me because of my disability. And I remember that I didn't run for it when annoyed because I knew that they would laugh. Right.
Dr Imran:And I was just like and then I remember the second match. I just thought, you know what? I don't really care. I don't really care. I just wanna enjoy my cricket Yeah.
Dr Imran:And just play. And I remember the second match, I played really well, and I didn't care. And actually, everyone after it, actually were just like, you know, came to shake my hand and said, oh, my god. You played really well and stuff like that. And they were just like and at that age, I think I was, you know, 12, 13 at that age.
Dr Imran:So, that was one of the the yeah. It's it's just stuff like that really where, at the time, I didn't feel that I had any barriers. And I was a lot fitter than I was and at that time. Yes. I would fall a lot, but a lot of my problems came when I was in med school rather than before med school.
Dr Imran:Wow. Yes. I had a lot of surgery as well, and so I had to take a lot of time out. So that was, you know, a bit of a bit of an issue. But it it was okay, recovering from surgery and obviously pain and stuff like that.
Dr Imran:So that impacted me a little bit. But, yeah, I didn't feel there were any barriers because of the people I was with, and they made me believe that I didn't have any barriers, which was quite nice.
Dr Genevieve:Which is wonderful. Yeah. You did talk about, wanting to almost kind of hide your disability though initially in that first cricket match. Match. You didn't want to show put yourself on show in a in a way.
Dr Genevieve:Yeah. Has that stuck with you? Do you still sometimes feel like that? Or do how do you feel in in people perceiving you as having a disability now and back then in pre med school?
Dr Imran:Yeah. It's an odd one because, I think, yeah. To this day so I'm I'm 38 now. So, god, I'm old. So, so yeah.
Dr Imran:So I think I do hide it a lot, and I think pictures and videos are quite a key thing. Even back then, I was like, I'd I'd walk and I kind of let's say there's a shop close to me. So we'd walk to the shop, and I'd notice, like, say, there there was a pub opposite the shop. So we used to get a lot of drunken people, like, hurling abuse at us whether it's racist or commenting on my disability. And there'd be times obviously if I noticed I would stop, and just wait for them to go, and then carry on because I'm worried that I'm gonna get that abuse, and those kind of things.
Dr Imran:And pictures wise and videos wise, I I can't watch videos of me with a limp and with that gait originally. And I guess what's worse now is that now I'm on crutches. I hate seeing pictures of me with crutches. So if there is a picture, like a group picture, I'll try and hide the crutches behind people if we're all in a line, or I'll put them down to then have the picture. Or I would I just won't save them on my phone.
Dr Imran:I don't save them on my social media. Yeah. And I try not to, just because I I just can't cope with it. And I don't it's just my insecurity of it where I just don't like it.
Dr Genevieve:You're sharing so much kind of personal stuff. Thank you, Iman. It's it's really interesting to hear your experiences. I wonder if we can go a little bit over to Georgia now. Can you tell us a little bit about your experience with pre med school?
Georgia:Yeah. It's interesting. As you're talking, I've realized there's so many similarities, but also, you know, in an antithesis to yours, I developed a disability quite in, you know, late in life. I got it in my teens. So I was diagnosed with a rare form of bone cancer at the age of 15 and went from being a very athletic, lively teenager to, yeah, having cancer for 2 years of my life and living in a hospital and having to relearn to walk, as you said, after surgery.
Georgia:I did have to relearn, you know, walking after that surgery. So just to explain a bit more, I had a endoprosthetic, replacement. So bit of a, basically, a really cool knee replacement that's a bit bigger. Yeah. It it's it's quite large, and, yeah, I have to go to a specialist center to get it sorted out.
Georgia:That's how interesting it is. So when you were saying, like, you had to relearn walking again, you know, that really resonated with me because I did have to figure out how I would feel being a 90 year old woman in one leg and a 16 year old girl
Dr Imran:in the
Georgia:other whilst also going through some pretty horrific medieval chemotherapy. Gosh. Yeah. So I think it was it was quite a weird experience going from being so mobile and having really, you know, really high exercise tolerance as for to, you know, not being able to do everything I wanted to. And at first, it was it was really hard for me because my life was sport.
Georgia:Yeah. My life was, being an athlete, doing hurdles, horse riding. I can't do any of that anymore still because, obviously, I can't hop. They removed a lot of muscles. It's quite it's quite an interesting disability to have.
Georgia:I don't think there's many people with this particular, prosthetic joint.
Dr Imran:Okay.
Georgia:And also the particular anatomy that I've got, you know, the tumor kind of, you know, definitely changed my anatomy completely. Yeah. So it means that the kind of challenges that I come across haven't always been, you know, identified as much before. Yeah. Especially when you think about people getting this kind of replacement if they do get it, like, in the, I don't know, seventies.
Georgia:So
Dr Imran:when you
Georgia:look at how long it's gonna last and when I've got to replace it again, I'm like, oh, well. If it's 15 years and someone that's 70 and I'm wearing heels
Dr Imran:and and
Georgia:a walker running around the hospital, I'm sure it'll
Dr Imran:be less
Georgia:for me. But, yeah, in terms of applying to med school, like you, Imran, I emailed every university in the UK and I think I got 8 responses from what I can remember. And I explained to them, like, that I'd had 2 years of chemotherapy and that I only had 4 GCSEs while on chemotherapy chemotherapy and whether they would accept that as a mitigation and allow me to enter with the predicted grades that I had. And, you know, I was really lucky and I got a really positive response from most of those universities, and ended up applying to Manchester as well. And I think Manchester stands out in my head the most, because it was a really personal email basically saying that we recognize that, you know, your 4 GCSEs whilst having chemotherapy count just as much as somebody else's 12 GCSEs, at school Yeah.
Georgia:Which was really encouraging for me. I'm also lucky as well. Like, you you mentioned your family and your friends that were really supportive. I was lucky that I had, you know, school that I'd been a part of since I was 4. So I think in terms of community, I had all that support.
Georgia:But there were there was some, like, hesitance from my school guidance counselors and teachers to applying to medicine. But I think it was more like they wanted to protect me. They wanted to make sure that I wasn't stressed after having gone through what I went through at such a young age. And they think they thought that applying to medical school and being in the hospital every day would be quite triggering, which actually, surprisingly, isn't. I think I think, like you said, like, I understand the patient journey a bit more.
Georgia:Perhaps maybe I'm used to hospitals because of that. Yeah.
Dr Genevieve:You've got a really unique perspective on things, both of you. You can see things from a, see the patient's situation different perspective
Dr Imran:kind of.
Georgia:Sure. And I think, actually, when when you said, like, your disability, kind of made you stand out when you're applying. I completely agree. Like, it made me stand out. I mean, my first sentence of my UCAS personal statement was, at 15 years old, I was diagnosed with Osteosarcoma.
Georgia:And now it's a running joke that that I put that in all of my medical applications. Because if I'm gonna use the cancer card, I may as well use it
Dr Genevieve:for things
Georgia:that are gonna benefit me. But, yeah, I think going in, I was more I I was so focused on getting into med school that I didn't think about how my disability would affect me when I got there.
Dr Imran:Yeah. That's the same.
Dr Genevieve:Yeah. What's really standing out is, from from both of you, your determination, your resilience, your kind of focus, and the fact you are both proactive in emailing the universities in advance of applying, putting your situation out there. I think it's really, positive to hear. Really kind of astounding to hear really and I think good lesson for other people kind of applying to medical school in similar circumstances or would you say do you have kind of tips or advice you'd give to people in similar circumstances or, that you might wanna put across?
Dr Imran:I think that if you're wanting a career in medicine to apply for it, especially with a disability, Because, yes, I I think that it is seen as a positive. And from a university point of view, they're more likely wanting to accommodate rather than you not apply. And seeing how can we help you rather than thinking, oh, you've got a disability, so we don't think a career in medicine would work for you when actually that is not correct.
Georgia:Yeah. What about yourself, Georgia? I completely agree. I think and actually, we're very lucky that, you know, when you apply to med school, the other people on the other end have medical knowledge. They and also, they will appreciate how hard or how, you know, how hard you've had to work to Yeah.
Georgia:Apply and the impact it would have had on your life, perhaps an antithesis to other courses where they may not understand fully. So that doctor on the other end, they're gonna know, relatively the impact it's had on your life. And, actually, they're gonna see it as a bonus that you've managed to apply to medical school with all of those things happening.
Dr Imran:Yeah.
Georgia:Yeah. I think I definitely had that, especially in my interview. They asked me why I wanted to study medicine, and obviously, I explained, you know, had oh, and I was 15 years old. And the interviewer just stopped me and went, let's pause the interview. That's amazing.
Georgia:And he just said, I'm an oncologist at, you know, the Christie. And he just went, you know, that's that's I don't need to hear anymore.
Dr Genevieve:Wow. So
Dr Imran:your interview was on the right day then, wasn't it? Yeah. It was on the right day.
Georgia:Can you imagine? Out of all the cycles I got, I got somebody who would
Dr Imran:Who's an oncologist?
Georgia:Yeah. It's like they completely understand where you're coming from, and I think that's really important. Like, you don't have to worry that they're not gonna understand how, you know, the barriers that you've had in the way possibly.
Dr Genevieve:You've shared both shared such powerful messages, I think, to our listeners today, and I feel there's so much more to discuss with you both. And if you'd both be happy, I think we should come back and have another conversation and talk about how how your medical school experience has been. Is that something you're both happy to do?
Georgia:Yeah. Absolutely.
Dr Genevieve:Thank you. And thanks again for coming today and chatting with us about it, Georgia Inman. And we'll see you again for the next podcast. Thanks again. Bye.