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Small group leaders, pastors, and more discussing strategies for growth and community in church groups. The Small Group Network is an international ministry that equips churches to engage in deeper discipleship and community.
Louisa: Hello!
And welcome to S G Squared.
Pastor Steve Gladen pulls from over 25
years of small group ministry experience
to encourage and equip listeners like
you to lead small group ministry.
So let's listen, and learn, together.
Speaker: Welcome to SG squared.
Steve Gladden on Small Groups.
Derek here with the Man of the Hour.
Steve Gladden.
Steve Happy Spring.
How is it April already?
Speaker 2: Well, it is April Fools,
but you know, um, I was gonna make
a joke on it about who's the fool
on this show or anything like that,
but I thought, no, no, no, no, no.
And then I wasn't gonna show up for
the recording, but then I thought,
that's not a good April Fools either.
So.
Everything's good.
Life is good.
Life is robust.
It's exciting.
Speaker: Good.
And I, I am sure you've got, uh, modest
temperatures there in sunny SoCal.
Speaker 2: Very modest.
It's, uh, it's always good.
Always good in SoCal and.
Spring practice has happened.
So lest we digress too early
into the football season,
Speaker: well give us a preview of
what we've got on tap in this episode.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Um, you know, I was trying to think
through this as we're getting ready
for this show and there's so many
questions we always get asked.
We get, you know.
Childcare, you know, how do you
do childcare in your small group?
How big can a small group get, uh,
we get as our groups opened or closed
or, you know, what's the life cycle
of the group or how do you get more
leaders or how do you get more coaching?
There's so many questions that you
and I have gone through in the last,
over a couple hundred episodes of, uh,
doing this, this show in various forms.
And what's what's amazing is so often.
The, like, the number one question we
should be asking isn't getting asked.
And we are such a relationally based
ministry in small group ministry.
We are all about the relationship.
But what happens so often is we, we
just don't ask the, the question,
which is the title of this episode
is, you know, how do you make sure
it can, it stays people focused and,
and, and not program focused because.
So often small group ministry just
gets distilled down into, it's, it's,
it's f figuring out the programming,
figuring out the systems, the
structure, the strategy, and just
cranking it out over and over again.
But what can get lost in it, ironically,
and the people business that we're
in, is the people can get lost.
Speaker: So the important question
we don't ask enough is how do we
get them more people focused, right?
Speaker 2: Correct.
Speaker: So the big question is how
do we get 'em more people focused?
Speaker 2: Well, April Fools
not telling you the answer
and all that's to good stuff.
No, nothing like that.
Now you just have to understand
the power of uh, one-to-one.
How do you understand that meeting with
people one-on-one is so valuable, you
think in the analogy of the family?
And we, we talk about many times
how the Bible is based on a family
system is that you can do all
kinds of activities with your kids.
You can take 'em to all
kinds of activities.
You can do all these little things, but
the real powerful life changing stuff
that happens in your kid's, not how many
times you take 'em to Six Flags, not how
many times you take him camping, not how
many times you take 'em to Starbucks,
although you, those things can foster.
Questions and stuff like that, but
it's when you have the one-on-one
conversations with them, it's when
they feel so comfortable with you that
you'll have a a one-on-one conversation.
And it goes back to, we know it's about
the relationships, but when you think
through the family system, is that
when I look at my kids growing up,
our most powerful times is when we had
that one-on-one gut level conversation.
But you know, so often we forget that
it is just about the relationships.
Speaker: So it's just the big, the big key
factor is it's about the relationships.
I love that.
So another million dollar
question, how do we do this?
How do we get them to
focus on the relationships?
Speaker 2: Well, good question as
always, but uh, what I would say is
that there's a couple facets to it,
and let me unpack them and this will
kind of get into the meat of the show.
I love what Rick, uh, always taught me.
He, he always used to talk
about how in his Bible he would
write the, the initials why bh?
And it was always, yeah, but how, and
so often I've always tried to make sure
in small group ministry when in the
books I've written and stuff like that.
Is we talked about the Yeah.
But how, all the questions we listed
in the front part of this show, if
you read small groups with purpose or
planning small groups with purpose,
you would get those answered, uh,
in, in so many different ways.
But the thing that I, I would say
in, in this particular show is that.
There's three different
aspects you have to go to.
One is you gotta meet with the
person, you gotta get to the person.
I'll talk about that in a second.
Then there's how do you get to know
them personally and then how do you
get to know them professionally?
So let me kind of unpack
each one of these.
One is you've gotta be
able to talk to 'em.
And what happens so many times is we
just email somebody and wait for them
to reply and they don't reply and we
email 'em again and stuff like that.
But what I would say is that
you've gotta go through at
least some different aspects of.
And that is, you gotta go
through different mediums.
So you gotta, uh, email
them is the least effective.
Texting them is probably one of the
best effective ways, or calling them,
if you're gonna call 'em, text 'em
your phone number and say, Hey, I'm
gonna be calling you in a little bit.
So when they see your cell
number that they, they won't
just send it to voicemail.
And I tell you.
If you're not in their contacts,
you're going to the voicemail.
So you gotta be able to get to 'em.
But I have a lot of different people
say, Hey, I tried calling 'em, I tried
texting 'em, I tried emailing them.
What do I do next?
And one of the things, uh, that
I coach churches on being is be
a lobby lurker and, you know,
try trying to be weird about it.
But if they have kids.
Be a lurker somewhere around
the, the children's area, a
check-in and stuff like that.
See if you can run into 'em.
If they're more of a senior
adult, they, they probably have a
different pathway into the church.
Or you can try to hang out in
different sections in your church
because you can get to know 'em.
But you gotta, you gotta be
willing to spend the time.
Now at Saddleback, at our
main campus too, we have like.
You know, it feels like 400 different
ways you can get in the building,
so it's hard to, hard to figure that
aspect out, but you've gotta be able
to say, okay, if I, if the, if I can't
be effective at the church of doing
that, then there's one thing I learned
from the uh, Buffini Be Bini group.
There are a real estate agency and
they would have this thing that
they would do called Pop Buys.
At first, I kept on thinking
it was Popeye's, like Popeye's
Chicken or Popeye, the character,
but it's pop, POP by BY, pop by.
And what they would encourage their people
to do, and I thought this is so brilliant,
is just to stop by someone's house.
And I know that is unseen
in this time and age.
But one of the things they do is they
pop by, they leave a little, little
token gift, could be just a little
mug with some, um, with some, um, you
know, instant coffee, you know, the
nice ones, or, you know, hot chocolate.
Or, you know, some, some, some
drink or something like that.
You could do a number of different
things, but in this, you, you bring a
little gift and if for some reason they
open their door, they answer the door
because they see you, then what you
can be able to do is to say, Hey, I'm
gonna be here less than two minutes.
I just wanted to give you this.
I just wanna say a quick prayer
for you and I'm gonna let you go
because sociologists will tell you.
That once you have made eye to eye
contact with somebody when they call or
when they try to get in touch with you,
it's gonna be that much more harder to
kind of, uh, ignore them and with that.
And so that's one part, one
of trying to get to know 'em.
Thoughts, questions from Dr.
Derek Olson.
Speaker: I love it.
I love the personal relational connection.
Um, I've mentioned before in previous
episodes, like those times in ministry
as a young youth pastor where I got
like a, um, I remember one time I got a
card in the mail from our district youth
director and just Derek, Hey, thinking
about you, praying for your ministry.
I remember, I felt like I was on
cloud nine getting this, this little
card with a, a big paragraph, right.
Small paragraph.
Um, or times where, um, I
got that random phone call.
Yeah.
From a fellow youth pastor or,
or small group ministry leader.
Um, just wanting to talk or encourage, um.
And then I remember being before
pastoral ministry, uh, being in, uh,
just a churchgoer and getting, you
know, reached out at times to pastors
and the impact that had on me, right?
Like, oh, they remembered my name.
This is incredible.
Mm-hmm.
So I think what you're saying
there, Steve, it's, it's not
hard, but it's, it's just getting.
It's drowning out the noise to
get to this most important stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
You have to unlock it.
And I, and I even loved what
you said about a note, because
that's another great way.
I just got a, a, a letter from someone
from 20 who wrote me about a situation
20 years ago and how I impacted them.
And it was just, it was a priceless
note that I got from them.
And, uh, I think it's a great way.
So, email, text, call, drop a note.
Love it.
It's a better fourth point.
Speaker: There you go.
And our next point,
Speaker 2: yeah, the next part, you
know, once you finally made contact
with them, then there's a personal
way to get to know them and a
professional way to get to know them.
Now, the personal way to get to know
them is there's an acrostic called Speak
and uh, just let me walk through that.
The S is story.
And when you're gonna meet
somebody, you gotta talk to 'em.
One of the things, first thing you
can do is say, Hey, what's your story?
It doesn't matter where
they start their story.
The fact is you start to
get to know their story.
So part of what you wanna be able
to do is you wanna be able to say, I
value you and let me hear your story.
And as you get to know
it, start to listen.
Start to listen to find out the, the p
and speak is what are their passions?
What are the passions that make them go?
Now if that doesn't come up in
their story, then just ask 'em.
Be able to say, Hey, what, what is
some, what are some of the things that
that you're really passionate about?
And two things you wanna listen for are
like the hobbies that they like to do.
Think through, you know, some
of those passion points of that.
And then if not that, you also
wanna listen for family pieces and
start to listen for their family.
If you don't hear about their family,
then circle back with them and say,
Hey Derek, I remember you're telling
me your story and everything, and
that you, you like to have this cool
little, uh, Instagram channel on,
you know, hieroglyphics and, uh, the.
Going to see mummies and you know,
the pyramids and all this crazy stuff
that if you guys don't know that, you
gotta watch Derek's channel on that.
But you know, I would wanna say, hey.
Are you married?
Do you, do you have kids?
Stuff like that.
And he'd say, I, yes I do.
I'm married to Julie.
She puts up with me a lot about that.
I know I got Azariah as my daughter.
So things like that.
And so you wanna start to get to
know who, what their passions are.
Hopefully there's a
family connection with it.
And there's also, you know, the
hobby side after the P, which one
go to is the E, and that is how
can you give them encouragement?
And part of that kind of goes
into a couple different buckets.
One is you wanna start to listen
is what's their love language?
What is it that, you know,
kind of builds 'em up.
They'll, they may talk about, you
know, it's through people speaking
words to me, which would be words of
affirmation or people that like to spend
time with me, which is time in that.
And there's five love languages that are
there that you wanna be able to listen
for and say, you know, do I have those?
You don't know the five
Lang love languages?
Just Google the five love languages,
and you'll pick those up really quick.
The other thing that you wanna list
with an encouragement is trying to
figure out when's their birthday,
when's their anniversary with their
spouse, what's their spouse's name,
their kids' name, their kids' birthdays.
Because if you wanna bond to somebody
that is, be able to, you know, wish
them a happy birthday, you know, Derek
is, you know, born on Groundhogs Day.
So every groundhog, when I see.
Pucky, Tommy Phil.
I go, ah, it's Derek's birthday.
I gotta wish him happy birthday.
You know when, when Julie,
his wife, that is, let's see.
Let's say, let's say she's.
30, or let's say she's 40.
My math is easier than I know she's
really 10 because her birthday falls
on leap your day, which is the,
you know, the 29th, so she's four.
You know, that might divide by four
and that's how old she really is.
Really, really crazy.
You know, after a while you
start to look, look Perver.
You know, hi, I'm 40, my wife is 10.
So with that, and then of course
Azariah born on Halloween.
So you know, there's things you
start to learn about people that
you go, oh wow, you know, let me,
let me kind of get to know that.
But again, encouragement comes.
From knowing their love language and
knowing, you know, what's important to
them, like their generally birthdays
anniversary and their kids' birthdays
and, and, uh, different pieces like that.
The EI mean, did the e the A is what are
the different abilities that people have?
And these are talents that they, they,
they use and they do a lot of times
through their hobbies, but not always.
The thing is there's something
called the Benjamin Franklin Effect.
Little quiz.
Derek, do you happen to know what the
Benjamin Franklin effect is before
I dig into your history button?
I don't
Speaker: think so.
I don't think so.
Speaker 2: See, all your history
is about like, you know, from 4,000
years and before, you know, right.
I'm trying to get you into the
current, like, you know, couple
centuries, but you're failing.
Uh, but the Benjamin, uh, Franklin
effect is that we found is that when you.
When you ask people in their natural
abilities, if you ask them to help
you psychologically, it has effect of
bonding them to you that they like you.
Case in point.
Example, one of my neighbors loved tools.
He had every tool in the world.
Well, I used to borrow all his
tools because A, I'm cheap and
I'm going, why would I buy them?
Uh, but B, the other thing was, is I
wanted to get closer to him to get, so
he could find out his spiritual journey.
And, and before you think I'm a cheaps
cake, I would always buy him a gift card.
To the, the two like Lowe's or Home Depot,
you know, wherever he liked to go, uh, in
that season to be able to say thank you.
But the point is, is that we,
our conversation grew close.
We grew, grew closer together.
Because I knew his abilities and I would
ask him for help in using those abilities.
And then actually I picked
up and and learned a lot.
And the last part before Derek, I'll
get your feedback, is knowledge and
always trying to ask people, you
know, what's a book you're reading?
What's a podcast you're listening to?
What's something on YouTube that
you've listened to recently that
you think would help me out?
And so part of when you're
trying to get to know somebody
personally is the speak acrostic.
What's the story?
What's the passion?
What's their encouragement?
You can give 'em what's the abilities and
what's the knowledge base that they have?
So that kind of helps, you know,
the personal side after you've
gotten to get to connect with them.
Speaker: I love that acrostic
speak, and I would tell our audience
to think of it in terms of them
speaking to you so you can listen.
Right?
Because who doesn't want to be heard?
And it takes it to a whole
nother level when you can get
to that level where you've, uh,
opened up a place in their heart
Speaker 2: mm-hmm.
Speaker: Right?
For them to, uh, for them to
speak to you so you can hear 'em.
And.
They're telling you about their life and
their passions and um, and these things.
I think it really, it just builds that
connection between two humans, especially
a, a ministry leader and somebody in your
small group or somebody in your church.
You know, it's one thing to get an email
from a pastor or a, a ministry leader.
It's a whole nother thing to
have a conversation like this.
And, um, you know, once you do, it's like.
Man, you're connected and, uh,
there's just so many, so much more
that can happen after that point.
So I love that acrostic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it, it's, it's
one of these things I hope you
guys are starting to understand.
I know it takes longer to, to have
those conversations, but what can happen
very quickly, and I, and I know this
from decades of experience, is that.
Very quickly, if you're not careful,
your small group ministry, which is the
discipleship engine, the leadership engine
of your church, can quickly, very quickly
turn just into a program-based ministry
where people get lost and you don't know
what's really happening in their lives,
which is why scalability is so important.
Maybe we'll do a, a show on
scalability because if you can't scale.
Then your ministry will collapse.
Fun fact that nothing grows over
nine inches without a skeletal system
because you, you can't scale up.
And so there's so many things that
we'll, we'll have to, you have to
remind me on that, Derek, what should
we do a show on and stuff like that.
Okay.
We're gonna close out the show
with this little piece with quickly
we've talked about, you know.
Relationships are the key because
when you spend time with people,
you become a trusted resource.
You can speak the truth into them,
but we've talked about you've gotta
get in front of 'em somehow face
to face and some different ways.
We talked about that four main ways.
If you wanna go back and listen
because you forgot already.
Uh, and then we talked about,
okay, once you got 'em in front
of you, what, where do you go?
And instead of going to the.
Tactical things of small group ministry.
About what they've done or haven't done.
You wanna go to the place of being able
to say, Hey, let me get to know you
when we talk about the speak acrostic.
Then once you've got that, that mastered,
then you can start to dig into the
church side of it and before you ask the
tactical questions like, you know, Hey,
I see you didn't fill out your roster.
Help me out and fill out your
roster, and or, you know, uh.
Help me out with what you're
studying, or you haven't gone
to leader training too yet.
I want you to do that, or whatever
it is, tactically speaking,
your small group ministry.
I consider, I, I, I would encourage
you that once you know them, pull
them into what would help their
small group ministry be better.
And that is take them through an
exercise called the four helpful list.
Help them feel a part of the small group
ministry, not just a cog or a wheel that
helps this thing happen or be successful.
And that is what's working.
And in that you're trying to find
the praises out with the people.
What's wrong?
You're trying to see together,
okay, what needs to, uh, be,
um, be changed or taken care of.
The other one is what's confusing
and that is what needs clarity.
And the fourth thing is, you know, what's
missing and what needs to be added.
So really quick, what's
right, what's wrong?
What's missing and what, I mean,
what's confusing and what's missing,
what's confusing is the way I
pitched all four of those things.
Man, it's so chaotic with that.
But when you ask those questions,
you know what's, uh, what's
right and you hear praises.
People quickly understand that a, as bad
as they may think that your ministry is
going, they will come to the place where
saying, well, something is going right.
And by you making them a personal
part of these questions kind of
helps 'em feel like they, they care.
I wanna be heard.
And then being able to go, what's wrong?
What's confusing and what's missing?
Helping them understand, you
know, does it need to be changed?
Does it need to be clarified?
Or is it just missing?
And, and you've gotta add it.
And so those four questions will
help you kind of take the small
group ministry to the next level.
Thoughts on that, Derek,
before I wrap it up?
Speaker: Well, the four helpful
lists, that is a great tool.
Um, I remember several years ago when
you introduced me to that list and I
ended up using that thing all the time.
I wore that out.
Um, not just with the network stuff we
were doing, but with, um, other things
in my own personal life for helpfulness.
You know, it just kind of
brings clarity with these.
Little, uh, pathways.
So I would really encourage people,
uh, listening, small group point
people, use that yourself, and then
yeah, use that as a tool to help others
unlock, um, what they need to unlock,
but love that acrostic or that list.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
So the, just to wrap it up, don't
let the ministry that we know is
relational that we really care about
miss the most essential part, and
that is getting to know the people.
And part of the, part of the time
we are so far behind the game,
which is why we wrestle with
trying to connect with people.
And if you've already been able to
do that, that's great, but help them
go, help go a a layer or two deeper
by walking 'em through the speak
acrostic and the four helpful lists
before you drill them on not being at
something or not filling something out.
Because what we don't wanna do.
Is we don't wanna miss the
most valuable thing in that.
And that is being able to say,
I'm connecting with these people.
And I would just encourage you, when
you look at your week, when you look
at your work week, ask yourself, how
many people other than staff or you
know, some people that are people you've
known in the church forever, how many
people are you connecting with that are
connected to your small group ministry?
And you don't get too many jobs that
want you to have as many breakfasts.
Lunch dinners, morning
coffees, mid-morning coffees,
early afternoon coffees, late
afternoon coffees with people.
So you can do these very things together.
So don't let the people get lost in
our very people oriented ministry.
Speaker: Well said, don't let the people
get lost in our people oriented ministry.
That is a tweet right there.
Uh, we wanna thank everybody
for, uh, watching this episode
or listening to this episode.
We really hope that it encouraged you.
A couple things real quick,
we would ask you to do.
Please like this episode, uh,
from wherever you are watching
or listening, especially if
it's on YouTube or something.
And if you're on, uh, Spotify or Apple
Podcast, leave a five stab review really
helps us to break through the algorithms.
And lastly, Steve, do you wanna
mention the lobby gathering?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
For those of you that, uh, aren't familiar
with that, very quickly coming up in
May, uh, we have the lobby gathering,
which is really just a networking event.
It's happening.
Um, may the.
The Tuesday, Wednesday,
Thursday, right after Mother's
Day, the 12th, 13th and 14th.
It's a Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.
It's a three day event.
Uh, that gives you an opportunity to
get to know other small group passers.
We have to cap it at about 110, which
we sold out the last five years.
Uh, but we want you to be a part
of it, uh, to be able just to see
and to grow together with others.
We know that peer-to-peer, uh, iron
sharpens iron, and so, uh, there's
some evening times where we talk about.
Subjects that you wouldn't normally do.
But then the rest of the event is
just we, uh, arrange circles that are
gonna house different conversations
that you can jump in and jump out of.
It's really just a fun time together
over those three days just to, uh,
be with other small group pastors or
point people that are disconnecting,
uh, all throughout the world.
Mainly through the United
States, so it's a great time.
You can go to small group network.com,
just look at our events page
and see more about the lobby.
Speaker: All right, well, we
hope to see you at the lobby.
Got a few spots left, so grab
'em while you can and we hope
you enjoyed this episode.
We will see you next month.
Thanks guys.
Speaker 2: See you later.
Louisa: Thank you for listening!
And don't forget to subscribe
wherever you listen to podcasts.
If you'd like to go deeper and get
more resources or join the small
group network, just head over
to small group network dot com.
We'll see you next time!