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Intersections of music and millennialism. Deep dives, asides, and exasperations by Alex (+ his friends): a lifelong musician, audiophile, and editorializer turned fitness instructor, DJ, producer, and sound curator.
Which, like, maybe I'm not the person
to be saying that, probably not,
but Well, that's the other tagline
of this episode, is maybe we're
not the person to be saying that.
You know what I mean?
So don't fact check us.
Don't fact check us.
Don't fact check us.
And we're not probably the
right person to be saying it.
So let's get some microphones.
But we're going to say it anyway.
We're definitely going to say it and
we're going to make you listen to it.
So this, you said, was your
second most played album of 2023?
Sure was.
And was, I think there were a
couple songs on my top five songs.
Yeah, tell me the tracks.
Pretty Girls, number one.
Okay.
Production wise, I think that's the
most impressive song on the whole album.
And then I don't know that one.
I think I hate Boston might
have been the second one.
I absolutely love that one I'm so basic.
I just like the the first one talk
too much and that's a really good one.
It's great Would you like to introduce
yourself by any name that you would
like folks to know you as my friend?
Sure.
Hey Hey ladies gents gays and
they's my name's drew drew car.
You can find me on instagram
at A Drew Carr named Desire,
if you feel so inclined.
Wait, that's your Instagram handle.
I know, I'm literary, I'm a literary girl.
I love to pay homage to the greats,
the greats of American theater.
And my name's Drew Carr, so
it kind of just happened.
The first, and I, what I hope
to be a heavily repeat guest,
feature on this channel.
Everybody say hello to Drew.
Drew and I had a little chat, a little
moment in LA where we both somehow moved
here at the same time had never met before
Worked at this company together and we're
like, wait, are you down the street?
Literally.
You were like, wait, did you
move to Venice this week?
And I said, yes, and you said I
moved to Santa Monica this week.
Wait, did I just dox us?
Want to get a margarita on the beach?
I'll take that out, I just doxed us.
Let me post your address.
Absolutely.
Well, I'm not there anymore,
so it's fine actually.
You couldn't find me there.
I want to be a part of the zeitgeist.
I like to, uh, have opinions on things.
It's kind of what I do.
Speaking of the zeitgeist, my friend,
we're today we're talking about
someone first off, you pitched this
topic and I couldn't have said yes
harder or faster because this girl
I'm very excited about, but I also
feel like everyone's excited about
her, so now I don't feel very special.
But, you know, always me trying to
say I was there first, that's like,
you know, part of my brand, you know.
I do feel I was sort of on this
girl first, just because of my
proximity to how she got started, so.
We were talking about Renee Rap,
Miss Renee Rap, who just last night,
performed SNL, was featured in a skit.
I'm happy for what it means.
culturally to be a musical
guest on SNL like for her.
I think that's hell.
Yeah, huge.
Hell.
Yeah, it always is.
So SNL has launched careers.
Adele hit and ended them because well, I
mean, and then the Lana Del Rey's of it
all like semi ended and then crawled back.
And wasn't it didn't Ashley Simpson
isn't that where she did the whole.
Let's do an entire episode on
just flop live performances and
that'll be like the capstone.
Oh, we could be here for days.
We would.
We will be here for days.
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.
Um, okay, Renee Rapp is
of the moment right now.
She's currently Regina George in
the movie adaptation of the musical
adaptation of the movie Mean Girls,
which was also based on the book, right?
Good luck figuring that out.
That's right.
Um, I just saw the film, uh, not 48
hours ago and I thought she was amazing.
But what I think she came into my
consciousness, not through Mean Girls.
I believe I heard her pop music and it
was probably served to me on Spotify.
Um, but what was, what was your gate?
How did the gate open to Renee for you?
You, I will tell everyone you are in the
theater community much more than I am.
So I can imagine that being a part of it.
I am in the theater, the New York
musical theater specifically community.
Um, was pretty heavily pre COVID less.
Less heavily now, and
that's kind of by design.
But for those who don't know, and maybe
many of the people who are fans of Renee
will know this, is that she was a Jimmy
Award winner, which is the National
High School Musical Theater Award show.
I don't think I knew this.
Oh, well, allow me to educate you on the
Jimmy Awards, which are, for all of the
ways that it is sort of, I guess, as the
kids would say, choogy, maybe that word is
even out now, and don't at me, because I'm
going to say what I want, and choogy is a
fun word, but for, for as, for as much of
the National High School Musical Theater
Awards are a little bit embarrassing,
they are also like, Remarkable and awesome
and I've been to the show a few times and
it's an incredibly supportive environment.
It's so fun to watch These
nerdy kids ultimately do the
thing they love the most.
It's like a spelling bee for singing.
It is it's a spelling bee for
musical theater nerds and I love it.
Perfect way to describe it.
And she, I can't remember the year,
but she won, so it's always a female
and a male winner, and she won for
the entire, she won the whole thing.
And nowadays what happens to a winner
of the Jimmy Awards is they kind
of immediately get signed by CAA.
Um.
And which is like, uh, an agency, right?
It is the biggest, largest, like
conglomerate agency in the world.
Every major star you can think of
is represented either by them or UTA
or sometimes like right paradigm or
something like three major agencies.
And at play for really big stars.
So huge, huge opportunity for these
kids, these literal 18 year olds who
are like going to go to school for
musical theater to win this competition.
So from there, she was immediately a
replacement for the mean girls musical,
which at the time was running on Broadway.
She was the first Regina, first
full time Regina replacement, right?
So she did that at 18 drew.
I don't think I knew
that she was that young.
Yeah, 18, 19 probably.
So didn't go to college.
Did not go to college.
And Certainly made the right
choice as we are now, um, sort of
witness to college is still there.
She can go.
She can do whatever she wants.
Um, but so she replaced an actress
named Taylor Louderman, who was
the original Regina George, right?
And went in to.
Critical acclaim is, you know, built this
incredible fan base and usually a Jimmy
Award winner is already acquiring this
like really large, younger fan base and
Mean Girls, the zeitgeist around that
at the time was really, really strong.
Um, it sort of did first with
the new movie attempted at the
very least to achieve, which was
presenting this story for a new
generation and for a new audience.
Right.
While the musical wasn't nearly as
inclusive or progressive in the sense
of, like, gender representation, um,
queer representation, et cetera, as
the film is, um, I think it definitely
resonated differently with the audience
that was going to see it, which were
contemporaries of Rene's age at the time.
Yeah, it was like the, it was like the
early, or like the elder Gen Zs who,
like, couldn't, like, weren't driving
yet, and their parents were taking
them to the show kind of thing, right?
Totally.
I wasn't in the area at the
time to know if Millennials
were interested in the show.
Like, we're You're you're a
younger millennial, right?
I am a younger millennial.
Yeah, sort of on the cusp if you will
But I think it was it was it's difficult
for me because I had a lot of very good
friends that were in the show Ah, so
that was my way in was really I didn't
have strong buy in to the fact that
it was the mean girls musical aside
from loving the movie and Remembering
when the movie came out and yeah being
interested in the very least of sort
of how Tina Fey would adapt this Um,
cultural phenomenon of a film into a
musical, I'm not always a huge proponent
of that being done and I don't think
it's typically done very successfully.
Perhaps I need to unpack
what that means for my like,
relationship to musical theater.
Well, and every time that happens, no,
I don't, I mean, maybe, but I think
every time that happens it's also like
one fewer original screen, uh, script
that is getting shelved because they're,
they're adapting something, right?
So like there's this whole other world
of creatives that are like, oh great,
we're doing another movie musical, right?
Yeah.
It always begs the question, why, right?
Why?
Um, there's some wonderful music
for folks that are into theater
soundtracks or like show tunes.
There's some phenomenal.
There's a song at the very
beginning of the show called It
Roars that I will always listen to.
It is Vocally, um, Erika Hennigsen,
who plays, um, the Katie role,
phenomenal singer, incredible.
The production's great.
I mean, it's just, it's very
wonderful music, I think.
But, to bring Renee back into it, from
what she has very explicitly divulged
from her time at that show, which kind
of was the beginning, the catapult of
her career as an actor, and especially
as a pop star, as a pop singer.
Was that it was not at all a safe
environment for her to be in.
I think that she has been on record
saying she was like in the L.
A.
Times or the New York Times.
There was a lot of shaming of her body.
And she is an incredibly gorgeous
young woman, which really is just
like a call to action, more so for the
way we talk about women's bodies and
the way that we shouldn't talk about
women's bodies, especially young women.
She had a terrible time in that
show, and I think vowed at that
moment kind of never to do.
theater again, not that that was even
really her passion or her main focus.
So, but before that, she had,
I believe another interview of
hers, I forget where it was from.
She had been asked first before
pre Broadway to join the tour
that was already happening.
And she, I think fully said no
and she did was unconcerned, was
unbothered because she was like, well,
this is not really what I'm trying
to like plant my flag in anyway.
And then I think they.
Her talent speaks for itself.
They liked her enough that they
were like, okay, a few months later,
however long it was, they needed a
replacement for Taylor on Broadway.
And they said, will you do it on Broadway?
And I think she was like, Yes.
Begrudgingly, yes.
Right.
Right.
And like, and that really speaks to both
like the power you achieve immediately
if you're like a Jimmy award winner, like
you are able to leverage these decisions.
I see.
These very, like, and you know, these,
these long running shows, Mean Girls
is closed and is, isn't considered,
I think, like a long running show.
It ran decently.
Couple years.
But, you know, these casting teams,
these creative teams, will try you
out, essentially, on the road, before
they're willing to bring you into,
like, the established Broadway.
Cast.
I see.
Um, they do it all the time with Wicked.
It's like you, you're never gonna be
an Elphaba or a Glinda in Wicked unless
you've done it on the tour first.
Essentially, there's like real,
this very prescribed pipeline
for how you're going to become.
I don't think I knew that.
Yeah, it's interesting for sure.
Um, it's a little bit irritating,
especially when people have
Pretty established careers.
And so I think people probably were
frustrated with someone like Renee Rapp,
who had no professional theater credits
at the time, regardless of that, like
she ate the fucking house down and like
the clips of her singing in that show are
some of the best that exist currently.
A hundred percent.
Just amazing.
But wait, here's a little bit of,
this is a three year ago clip.
I saw this sometime in the early.
The early part of my awareness of her
and I was like, oh, I didn't realize
this pop album was this girl This is now
three or four years old And this isn't so
they give Regina some like serious songs
like I my reaction to the movie musical
and I don't know if this would be the
musical too because I haven't seen it is
like Katie's not the lead character like
Regina's the lead character and maybe
specifically Renee as Regina she sucks
the air out of the room not in a negative
way, but like Everyone's just waiting
for her to compete with her and Janice
like the the Janice songs are really
big as well But especially in the movie,
I think because she is the most cachet
They trimmed the track list down and
they like left Regina's belters in they
majorly trimmed it down for they did not
leave the one That you mentioned earlier.
I don't think Andy makes sense It
doesn't need to be right and some
of the ones that did make it are
shorter like they took intros out or
segments out but anyway, this was This
is, uh, Someone Gets Hurt, which is
like Regina's, like, scream belter.
Yes, they do that.
This is performance.
This is all self defense.
I thought you had the sense.
She's good.
She's really good.
She's 19 years old.
Couldn't be more, really.
I don't think.
Come
on, piano.
Piano.
Jinx.
She like screams the ending, uh, she does.
She's that, that is a scrouty run.
I mean, I feel like when you're young
and you're in that position, you just
scrouting is like the first instinct.
Uh, she seems very trained, but
it's coming from, it seems like
a lot of it's coming from here.
And these days it sounds like she's
mixing a lot more and it seems a little
bit healthier, but it's so powerful.
Like that's so much power
coming out of a child.
It's a skill that she's always clearly
had, is like to sing exceptionally well,
like better than anyone else in the room.
But of course if you're a lead on
Broadway, especially the lead in like
a Tina Fey led musical, you have no,
you have no resource spared for you.
Like you're seeing the best voice
teachers, you're getting like lymphatic
drainage massages every single week, like
you are able to perform at a higher level.
And it's also it's exceptionally difficult
work to do an eight show a week schedule.
Um, so I think that's to have like
four songs that are like in that
sound just that are at that, like that
are in that sit there consistently.
And so I think it's often why people as
good as Renee are, and as acclaimed as
her and who have the kind of fame that
she does don't really want to go back to
Broadway because it is so difficult to do.
Drew, do you want to send your, your
cash app or your Venmo to the listeners?
Absolutely.
Drew dash car.
Who ares?
He said yes.
I got to make, I got to
make some money back.
That was expensive.
This meeting has been upgraded.
Did you see that?
I literally.
I am so proud.
I, uh, Capitalism.
Girl!
I just extended this content live.
That's a funny way I didn't
expect a tech career to serve me.
I can do anything during a meeting.
For those folks that know of Rene just
through the movie musical, which I think
is going to be a lot of people and makes
complete sense if you aren't like deeply
in the theater world or for some reason
on to the pop album on the early side.
What's cool, I kind of realized this when
I was comparing the soundtracks of the
movie musical to the theatrical musical.
I forgot.
She didn't get to record any
of the mean girls music at all.
Like the couple of the thing we just
played was from like a broadway dot com
video of like, Oh, look at our new star.
But now she actually gets some recordings
through the movie, which is cool.
Have you seen the film yet?
Drew, do you intend to?
I have not.
And I Frankly don't think I will.
Um, yeah, that's fair.
Yeah.
May, if it comes to streaming, I'll, I'll
watch it on like Netflix or whatever.
Well, these days they come to
streaming like two weeks later.
Yeah.
They're still in the theater.
It's like it should there today probably.
I'll check.
Yeah.
, I will say I was laughing
and giggling so much.
And I looked around and I was like,
this is the millennial nursing
home is like this movie theater.
Like we're all out to pasture.
And I was like, Oh no, maybe we
can segue to like vocal technique
a little bit, because I know
that, you know, so much about it.
Wait, that's my degree
in vocal performance.
Everyone.
Hi, she's educated.
Does everyone see that?
Right there.
So we listened to the recording of
Someone Gets Hurt, which is old.
Maybe we can like, put a little bit in
of the new one from the movie musical.
Oh yeah.
Let me pull that up, just a quick sec.
She has a very natural vibrato.
Mhmm.
Like a husky vibrato.
It's meaty.
I Remember in the movie,
that's a pop song.
It's a pop song exactly She took out in
the three year ago video that we played
she was doing more trails more She was
doing the most so to speak and in them
and in this she took Out a lot of things
and just left like one or two little
little things in and it was like, oh,
like razor sharp The payoff is strong.
I had the same reaction What do
you hear when you hear her sing
like these theatrical songs?
Like what what kind of vocalist
does she like present as to you?
Like this is a score of
exclusively pop music.
Like it lends itself to theatricality
more than like a normal pop album would.
But like, you have to be able to
sing pop music very well to sing
the score of Mean Girls well.
You know, I saw Renee do this live.
Renee can sing anything and like
the way she navigates like the
different parts of her voice, like
her sort of chesty belt versus her
registers, falsetto and her head voice.
indicates to even like an uneducated
listener, she can sing anything.
Um, and, and she also has that thing.
And she had this live too, where
you never worry about whether
or not she will make it through.
Oh my God.
I'm so glad you said that.
I've never really put words to
that, but she is that singer.
Yeah.
You have no anxiety about her, her
ability to perform something that might
sound difficult to sing or execute.
Can I look at the visual cues of how they
sing and understand that there's like a
technique there because it is a visual
thing to a certain extent you have someone
literally like watching the way that
they're yeah watching the way that they're
like where their tension lies you know
not to say that it Needs to be perfect
and not to say that like someone needs
to have Uh an irritating degree from like
nyu to be able to like sing on broadway.
That's certainly not true In fact
often not true right often not true
in fact I think there's a lot of harm
that this big expensive piece of paper
did to me as a singer but I think,
yeah, like, it's, it's the thing my
friends and I talk about the most.
Like, I have a friend on tour right now,
and we talk all the time about, you know,
she covers some different roles in this
particular show, and they're both, like,
her ensemble track is very dance heavy.
She's like a remarkable dancer, but
she's also an incredible singer.
So she has to, you know, sort of hop
into these different ideas and these
different like mentalities around how
she's going to perform that particular
role that she's like swinging into or
understudies, which are like way more
singer heavy than they are dance heavy.
And yeah, it's like you have to
know how to be able to do that
if you want to do your job well
and do it eight times a week.
Totally.
I think the like knowing how to do your
job well is, is the, to me, fundamentally.
generally net positive training
of being in the theater world.
Like you have to become athletic
about whatever it is you're doing.
And like you're saying, it's just,
it's often just a mindset switch.
Being able to like pull those levers.
That's the stuff that I think creatives in
just the music industry don't always know.
They don't understand their capabilities.
They, it just billows out of them.
And like, oftentimes like steamrolls them.
They don't know what to do with it.
And yeah, they oftentimes like have really
difficult lifestyles and are really hard
to get along with because they like.
Don't have that sort of like internal
self knowledge of like, now I'm
doing this, now I'm doing this.
And this is what I need to do if
I need to get in gear for this.
So I see that as like, just being able
to start the car or like change the
gears in all of the ways you're talking
about as such an asset, even if Renee
did it for like, I don't know, however
many accumulated years she's done.
Maybe she'll never do it again.
I think that's going to serve her in
touring as a musician, which is anyone
that's just a musician in a way,
or just goes to recording artistry.
They're at the mercy of their creativity.
They don't necessarily know how to, how
to like, turn on, off or shift, you know?
So I think like the, the sense
that I like the way you said, you,
you trust Renee, like, you know,
she's going to hit it or whatever.
That is like a byproduct of anyone that
is trained enough to know how to like
kick it into high gear, so to speak.
Like, if I may kind of put a look, offer
a critique on another sort of contemporary
of us Renee's in this way is Miss Ariana
Grande, whom obviously began her before
her professional performing career.
in musical theater.
And it's really interesting, you know,
having a lot of mutual friends with her.
Like I, I do not know her.
What I find interesting about
Ariana's recorded music.
And I'm so, so interested to see
how, and if this changes with
the release of wicked, the film
is that is my, that's my biggest
gripe with Ariana's recorded music.
And it's why I think that I,
uh, I find this real respite
as a singer myself in Renee's.
album is that Renee is never hiding
the fact that she is a singer with
this unbelievable instrument that can
do all of these impressive things.
And she was able to work with
producers, work with co songwriters
for this particular album that that
ability in a way that doesn't feel
derivative of pop music or harkens
towards theatrical music too much.
I couldn't agree more.
It is.
It is the rarest of rare, like fine lines
that does often not get executed well.
It is that.
So now we're on Renée's 2023 album, Snow
Angel, which I think she, one of the songs
from SNL last night promoted this, right?
Yeah.
This is Talk Too Much.
Like she has the presence
of a singer already.
She's possessing, but then she's
like, but I have the range though.
Come on, layer those vocals, girl.
Sing high and loud.
I hear so much and talk too
much, especially when those
like upper harmonies come in.
She's so masky and facey in
a very trained way, but she's
loud, like loud in the best way.
I love a loud singer.
This is I Hate Boston, which
is, I believe, not about Boston.
It's just an avatar for
a place that an ex lived.
Just the melodies as well as
the songs are so beautiful.
They really are captivating.
And that is going to be a signature for
her, that That like registration change.
She does it a lot.
It's yummy.
It's really yummy.
It is yummy.
Mixed belt, ladies and gentlemen.
That's how you do it.
That's a mixed belt.
It's coming from throat, it's coming
from face, and she can do that all day.
She can do that in her sleep.
Yeah.
Damn.
That's so good.
It also sounds like the other
song that had Boston in it that
was a very, very millennial song.
Um, this may predate you, Drew.
Uh, Let's see.
You probably, you hear this, if
you need to just find this in the
wild, just go fill a prescription
at a Duane Reade or a CVS.
Amazing.
You know what I mean?
It's on the prescription sound fray from
the very first notes it's Very fray.
It's very fray.
All these bands wrote in the
same key for some reason.
This is the fray.
It is pre fray.
This has to be the fray.
This is pre fray.
Okay, so fray pirated this.
Augustana walked so that the
fray could do whatever they did.
I don't, you could call it run.
Maybe a jog.
It's a little light jog for me.
Maybe I did actually always
think that was the fray, so.
Sorry you guys, now I know.
And then maybe the last piece of,
like, recorded vocal technique
of Rene that I pulled up.
Have you seen this?
Her singing with Jennifer Hudson
on the Jennifer Hudson talk show?
Of course I have.
Okay, I know.
But of course.
I didn't mean for that to be an offensive
homosexual question, you know what I mean?
Oh my god, I get to sing with her!
Like, these two powerhouse
singers together is so fun.
Singing D.
I.
L.
In a way, Jennifer's voice
is like too big for this.
This is not the It is.
She sounds amazing, but
this isn't right for her.
But then Renee just like, She
kind of eats her up in a way.
She does.
People are cheering.
I love that girl.
Girl!
They're both seated, also, it's so funny.
They're just so casual.
Piano player did not learn
the right chord there.
Ah, yeah, ah!
God, I love her.
She's got meat in her voice.
I will say, in that clip, in the chorus
specifically, I mean, she's obviously
just like going off on a talk show,
and who knows if she even warmed up.
She sounds amazing.
I would never say she doesn't sound
amazing, but it is a little over the
line of it seems like she's overpowering
the song, but that's kind of it.
Definitely.
The listen to it is like, there's
a little bit of push there.
I would imagine that she's, you know,
see, she seated, she's probably nervous
to be singing with Jennifer Hudson.
Like there's a lot of elements there.
And probably that was so early in the
day or like after multiple different
talk show appearances she'd been on.
Which like obviously to us as like trained
listeners to the way people sing like you
can hear that and you also can hear like
a real like formant difference between
her and Jennifer's voice like Jennifer
sits like a little bit further back in
her throat and she like her vowels are
a little bit flatter and a little bit
wider and I think that probably comes
from like where she started singing and
like the nature by which she started
singing which like definitely was like
gospel music and like in the church and
That's also what her voice does so well.
Um, and like Renee's is like
pitched a little bit more forward.
Like her vowels are a little bit more
closed, which also is like indicative.
Both cases are indicative of
like well trained singers.
It's like knowing how to sort
of manipulate words, manipulate.
Words on notes and vowels on
particular notes that are higher
that you're able to, like, actually
get out and make sound good.
And for Renee to hold her own
with her is like, it's cool.
That's amazing.
As a pop singer.
Do you?
So I hear Renee's lane thinking less
about her voice and just more about like
the genre and like what, what it's what
it sounded like as packaged towards.
To me, it sounded like, okay,
we have Olivia out there.
Olivia Rodrigo killing
it in this like pop.
Pop punk punk pop, like I don't know
what I'll pop rock resurgence in a
way like doing the like Kelly Clarkson
Atlanta's Morrisette thing that every
20 years like we get excited about a
girl with a guitar, which I'm raising
my hand I love that genre It's my
literally probably one of my favorite
pop genres And it seems like every time
someone hits it super big like that.
They need another one.
They need a Not an enemy, just like
someone else, like an alternate.
Like the NSYNC and the Backstreet Boys.
When I heard Renee, I was like, Oh, word!
Like, now we have like, someone
who's like a muscular singer
gonna take this genre on.
Olivia can sing her ass off, she's
a great singer, but like, Renee
is a different kind of singer.
That's how it stands to me.
But hearing, like her, her
Conversation with Jennifer Hudson.
She talked a lot about wanting to make
an R& B album and that R& B She cites
all of her references of her inspirations
are like Jasmine Sullivan and she talks
about J Hud as being an inspiration Like
do you think that that's where she's
going and would you want her to go there?
I think that would likely be a sophomore
album pitch for her would be to go still
pop but like much more R& B influenced
because I think what would there
would be based solely off of Renee's
capabilities and also the way she talks
about music I think that there would
be like the respect and homage paid to
that genre of music in the same way that
I think You know, Christina Aguilera
was able to do pretty well, I think.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true.
She's also had the stamp of approval
of like Aretha and Patti LaBelle,
like, they, like these women who
are, you know, powerhouses of the
genre, think that she belongs there.
My only hesitation with a Renée, like
Renée at this point just being an avatar
of like a young white woman who's like
an absolutely extraordinarily talented
singer Making an R& B album like choosing
to make an R& B album Um, I just have this
instinct that every for every Renée that
gets to actually commercially release What
will probably succeed no matter what it is
uh an R& B album there's like Dozens and
dozens of equally as if not differently
or more talented Females of color that
are like here we go again Like another
christina aguilera for the 2020s kind of
thing read a book that actually touches
on this And uses it's like a book of
essays and it uses christina aguilera's
back to basics essentially that That
particular album and that particular
moment of her career is like a really
cut and dry example of what so many white
artists do, which is sort of usurp and
take the art of black singers, the art
of black artists, the historical art,
all that comes with that, particularly R&
B and soul music in particular, and use
it for their benefit and then ultimately
shed that And have a return to basics,
as is like very explicitly demonstrated
in the, albeit very good, incredible
album, Back to Basics by Christina.
Where she, you know, takes on
this sort of like, pin up 1950s,
um, desirable white woman.
So I think, yeah, and I think another
like, a modern example that I'm constantly
in discussion with my friends about now
is like, the Victoria Monet of it all.
Oh my god.
Um.
And just because of the, the sheer
nature of the industry, the racism of the
industry, the, the, the, just the phobias
that the industry has baked into it.
Like you can't break in until
someone like decides to make on
my mama go viral on tick tock.
I learned because, uh, when Ariana
was promoting briefly the 10th
anniversary of her first album.
During her filming of Wicked,
she did like live sessions of
a few songs from yours truly.
And then, I don't know how, because at the
time I had no social media, I found that
many of those songs were demoed, written
by, demoed for, and like constructed
for Jordan Sparks third or fourth album.
And then it's, you read the
comments and then you realize
like it's yet another example.
No, no shade to anyone involved.
It's just like, it's yet another example
of Extraordinarily talented black woman.
This woman won American Idol.
She like and is an Exceptional fucking
song like her career looks nothing
like Arianna's and this would have been
her fourth album I think and instead
whoever the powers that be and maybe
she didn't want it I don't know but
like the it just moved over to this
like little cupcake dress wearing white
girls a little infantilized woman this
little white girl who can sing really
well, but Renee getting into R& B and
talking about R& B references, I want
her to do what she is so inspired by and
talented at, but at the same time, it
just feels like we've been here before.
There's so many women trying to do that
same thing right now, and like, she'll,
she's gonna be the one that's like,
Not just the one, but a one that's just
able to do it because of who she is.
Do you think Renee is positioned to,
like, do you, is what you hear from
Renee, a woman, like a young woman
that is singing with her voice and
like is unaffected comparatively?
Yes.
Yes, I think, and I think
that's why I loved it so much.
And what I was also the most worried
about from her moving into a pop
space, like, I mean, we got her EP,
her, Rene's EP before, which is also
like, I think it's five songs, right?
Which are also wonderful, wonderful songs.
The first one being, um, I can't be.
Uh, what?
Oh, God, everything to everyone.
Yeah, everything to everyone.
And there's an she also released
an extended version of that because
that one is like acapella on the EP,
which it's like, that I think is a
really good example of Renee singing
pop music, quote unquote, affected
with still her beautiful voice.
Kind of has that like 80s synth sound.
This is very pretty and at the same time
I'm glad this is not the predominant
style of her album because I think
this, to an untrained listener,
gets lost in the genre shuffle.
I think this sounds more
like radio music in a way.
This is so beautiful but The
like, sad girl of it all.
Like, not that it's not legit,
but It has that Billie Eilish
effect of like, you know, she ages
herself explicitly in her album.
She has a song called 23, um, and it's
about her Jordan year, her being 23,
and it's like, me listening to that at
my big age, I'm like, oh my god, this
girl is like I've got four years on you.
Girl, I know, but that's okay.
It's okay.
We're still so young, too.
I know, we're young.
We're so young.
I know, it does kind of, like, beg
the reality that, like, there's kind
of only so much hyper criticism and,
like, editorializing that can be
done about someone that's this age.
Yeah.
Because she is, uh, she's so young that
she is as much just a product of All
the things that raised her and taught
her and the environments that she's been
in like Who has their, I mean, I'm not
saying no one, but who has their own
voice, their own everything at, at 22,
23, like we shouldn't expect anything.
Yeah.
And I hope that she doesn't because
like, then what, what do we have
to look forward to from her?
Like grow into it for sure.
For sure.
I see her as already having
successfully crossed over from
theatrical music into pop music.
I think the mean girls.
movie is helping her do it.
Like you said, it was already like a pop
music musical, so it's not a huge stretch.
In the canon though, of theater singers
trying to have pop careers, there's
fewer successes than there are like
middling or, or just like failures.
And yeah.
How do you think she stands up against
some of the ones we've seen more recently?
Like, I mean, I'm not in this world like
you are, but like Ben Platt obviously
made a huge turn into pop music.
He's toward it.
Idina is trying to be a house house girl.
He's trying some, she's really trying.
I saw her at WeHo Pride.
Yeah.
The gays were really there to support her.
And like Cynthia, Cynthia Erivo very much.
I think China has already
made an album that.
As a diehard fan of her voice as I
am, I haven't listened to this album.
So like, what, what is it about
this that generally doesn't work?
And do you think it's going to work
differently or better for Renee?
I mean, I think it's probably just
using those three examples you gave.
I think it will and already
has worked better for her.
I also think with the exception of
Cynthia, like what I think about
Cynthia is that she's actually making
more of a career and has made more
of a conscious pivot into being.
Like a, as a movie star, she's in
Hollywood, like she is like a two
time Oscar nominated like once for
a performance and also that same
exact year for best song, but like,
speaking more, it's like, I guess the
Ben Platt's the Idina Menzel's, um,
and I'll exclude Ariana from this,
I think just because like, she is so
much, she's at a much higher place in
her pop career than either of them.
Yeah.
I think Renee just simply has the
package that works a little bit
better from a marketing perspective.
And that is maybe unfortunate,
but I think is also a very
clear reality of the industry.
It's like she's young,
she's hot, she's blonde.
She actually can saying and she's also
funny and she's queer like she has a lot
of interesting fan bases yeah and as sort
of like queer celebrities are having queer
celebrities are having a moment um we'll
see how long it lasts every every like
10 years they're sort of like oh yeah gay
people what's what's going on with gay
people let's see and then they're like
too much we look bring the straights back
in oh I think that, like, she checks all
the boxes in the perfect amount of ways.
I think, I mean, Ben Platt, I,
I'm not a huge fan of his, of
the music that he's released.
There are a couple songs that
I think are really great.
And I think that he is so talented
and also king of nepo babies.
So rock on Lord of the nepo dominion.
I mean, he's just own it and move on.
I mean, yeah, I think Yeah, I, I
think Renee will have a successful
transitive career into pop music.
The only other one obviously being Ariana.
And I think people need to
be a little bit more afraid.
Like I say this as a joke mostly,
but I also find it to be funny.
I'm like, whenever she's released
her EP, I was talking to my good
friend Jenna, who I hope will listen
to this and watch and get a kick.
Hi Jenna.
She, um, I was like, people
need to be more scared of Renee.
This is a hot queer.
Uber talented girl, new girl on the scene.
And she can sing circles
around everybody else.
Like, I, if I were a girl, if I, it's like
Kelly Clarkson covering someone's song.
Yeah, you're like, If I released a
song, I'd say have, have fun with it.
If you're Kelly Clarkson,
don't fucking touch this.
Because it's going to be better than
anything I've Yeah, it's lights for us.
Like, it's just what she does.
Renee is un Bothered like completely the
interview affect whether we believe it to
be real like she's just going off script
saying things that she shouldn't like
She's kind of making I hate saying like
making a brand out of her But her like
what she's kind of building her brand on
is that she'll just say whatever Yeah,
like she's playful like she's like I
said no to mean girls and they at they
called me again And then I was like,
yes like I kind of, I kind of love it.
I do too.
That's the part of Gen Z that I'm
like, there is something there.
She's like seemingly
successfully unbothered.
They've like figured it out.
She doesn't care.
We can learn something from that.
I loved the way, I like the
way she talks about her music.
And I think that it's, Same.
Having watched her from an 18 year
old dancing on the Minskoff stage
for the Jimmy Awards up until now.
Like, the evolution is, like, for
all intents, in the grand scheme of
things, very, very short amount of time.
Like, this has happened in five years.
Comparing her to Ariana is interesting.
I am so out of that world in
a way that I've never thought
of Ariana as a theater person.
Or maybe just because she was
there so briefly or so young.
But, like, it does seem in your
formula, like, that the two of them
might be, like, the ones that got out
into their pop career successfully.
Do you think it's like the less time
you spend in theater, the better?
Like every additional show you do,
like pulls you more into the show
world and away from the, the pop world?
Absolutely.
And I think that that's exactly what
I think that she used the formula
that Ariana unknowingly created.
I did one Broadway show.
People really liked me in it.
People heard I did really well
and it gave me the opportunity.
I was able then to leverage the
opportunities that came my way because
I had that one singular credit.
And luckily there were people
like Tina Fey attached.
And so I think that five years later,
five years down the line from now, we
will culturally have forgotten that
she was ever in a musical at all.
Totally.
She, I don't know.
It was, it must've been in
one of the interviews for Mean
Girls that I saw recently.
And she, I don't think Renee is
playing Coachella, but a lot of her
contemporaries in the pop world are.
I could be wrong about this.
I think she is playing Coachella.
Maybe she's playing it.
But they were asking her, they, she
must be because they were asking her,
um, Are you excited for Coachella?
And she was like, I'm so excited
to see, like, my girls are there.
And she named Sabrina
Carpenter and Chapel Roan.
And I, I'm not trying to stir anything.
Also, I'm small fish.
Who the fuck cares?
But Sabrina being like the nemesis
of Or the anti hero of Olivia.
And Olivia being my original,
like, counterpart to Rene.
I'm like, oh, are there sides?
But then Chaperone, do
you know who Chaperone is?
Of fucking course.
Okay, well Chaperone is like the
original muse of Olivia's producer Dan
Nigro's, like, self Uh, he made a label
literally just for Olivia, I think.
But his, like, Aesthetic muse to like
become then the producer that was ready
for Olivia was Chapel Roan, and I'm
wondering like does Olivia acknowledge
or hate or like Chapel and like is Chapel
on Olivia's side or Sabrina's are there
sides and now I'm like, oh no because
I'm still Toxically or otherwise like
in Olivia's camp for whatever reason and
now I'm like, oh, I hope I hope I don't
have to like forget this in order to
continue to enjoy These women's music.
I'm not a sabrina carpenter fan.
So that's like not I have paid
absolutely zero attention to
anything she's ever done, and I
hardly know what she looks like.
And I think I'll keep it that way,
but what I will say that's interesting
about what you mentioned is that Olivia
Rodrigo did say that her favorite
album of last year was Snow Angel.
No shit!
Oh my god!
I didn't know that!
She said the album she was
listening to and couldn't stop
listening to was Snow Angel.
Drew, you just made my day.
I have a feeling that the majority of this
beef is fully orchestrated by the psycho
PR people, and it ultimately has zero
to very little to zero basis in reality.
I'm not even joking that I can sleep
easier knowing that Olivia has handed
some flowers to Renee because I don't
care about the Sabrina Carpenter
beef at all, but I did care about
the prospect of this being a beef.
And I'm glad that at
least she's not a dog.
I just want all these young women
who are making exceptional music to
get along and hopefully collab with
each other to make even better music
because that's all I want to see.
I just want to keep listening
to really fucking good music.
I just want everyone to get along.
Literally.
And like bake a cake with rainbows.
Say bye Drew!
See you next time!
Bye everyone!