Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
https://youtu.be/KIXnP7lp690
Matt and Sean talk about where ugliness truly dwells, in Star Trek TOS Season 3, Episode 5, “Is There No Truth in Beauty.”
Matt and Sean talk about where ugliness truly dwells, in Star Trek TOS Season 3, Episode 5, “Is There No Truth in Beauty.”
- (00:00) - - Intro
- (01:34) - - Viewer Feedback
- (04:28) - - Today's Episode
- (04:57) - - This Time in History
- (09:42) - - Episode Discussion
Follow us on X: @byseanferrell @mattferrell
★ Support this podcast ★
Creators and Guests
What is Trek In Time?
Join Sean and Matt as they rewatch all of Star Trek in order and in historical context.
Sean Ferrell: In this episode of Trek in Time, we're talking about where ugliness really dwells. Welcome everybody, to Trek in Time. This is, of course, the podcast that takes a look at Star Trek in chronological stardate order. And this time it's not a lie. That's right. We finished the 10 episode series, season one, Starfleet Academy. Matt and I really enjoyed it. It's been cancelled. It'll be back for second season, but nothing past that. So anyway, having said all of that, we're back to the original series. We're back where we left off. Yes, early in season three. We're now at episode five. Is there no truth in Beauty? This is an episode that originally broadcast on October 18, 1968. As I mentioned, I'm Sean Ferrell. I'm a writer, write some sci fi, write some horror, write some stuff for kids. I write a lot of different things. I'm sorry. Anyway, with me, as always, is my brother Matt. He is that Matt behind Undecided with Matt Ferrell, which takes a look at emerging tech and its impact on our lives. Matt, how are you today? Excited about being back in the original series?
Matt Ferrell: I’m doing well. We'll get into that.
Sean Ferrell: Okay, wow, a little bit of a spoiler there for everybody.
Matt Ferrell: That's right.
Sean Ferrell: We're talking about the 62nd episode produced, the 60th aired overall, the fifth of the third season. Is there no truth in Beauty? Directed by Ralph Senensky, written by Jean Lisette Aroeste, and before we get into that, we always like to take a look at what you've had to say about our previous episodes. So, Matt, what did you find for us in the mailbag this week?
Matt Ferrell: We got a few. Uh, one, this is all from the. Our episode 300th Night where we talked about that episode of Starfleet Academy. We had one from Swedish nerd that said, finally, an episode that connects Star Trek with Galaxy Quest. They had the Omega 13 device that could rearrange the whole universe. Not entirely unlike the Omega device in this episode that could rip the local space apart right down to subspace. Does this mean that Galaxy Quest now is canon in Star Trek? I mean, Galaxy Quest are already ranked as one of the best Star Trek movies. My, my mind kept exploding as I read the comment.
Sean Ferrell: I like that. I like that a lot. I, I would argue yes. Let's just make like I, I would. I'm going to put words into people's mouths now. The people who made Starfleet Academy really love Star Trek and they're of a generation that would say, oh, Galaxy Quest is absolutely in there. So. Yes, I'm just going to say it.
Matt Ferrell: Yes, yes, it's Canon 100%. You also had a comment from Happy Flappy Farm, who wrote, wow, what an episode. The action was fast and I feel like I missed details on the first watch, so I definitely want to see it again. Now Caleb has his conflict with wanting to please his mom and he is compulsively willing to give up his life in Starfleet. But I am glad to have the plot force the issue by having them all rescued by Ake I feel a well thought out next step coming. These writers have been excellent in this series and Sean and I, I think, completely agree with you. The way they've put this all together, it was incredibly well thought out.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah.
Matt Ferrell: And finally we have wrong answers. Only plot of Rubincon. The students. This is Mark Loveless. Good old Mark Loveless. The students have.
Sean Ferrell: Funny that I assumed that.
Matt Ferrell: Yes, I almost didn't say it because it's like it's always Mark. The students have to participate in a science lab fair that is called Rubin Con, named after the famous old Earth observatory, the Rubin Observatory, located in Chile. Everyone has to try and discover something new in the sky. Caleb finds the entire exercise pointless, as everything they can still see in the sky has been mapped out for centuries, and submits his quote, findings to Jet. She is disappointed, yet secretly entertained, that Caleb claims to have discovered Uranus with a paper filled with toilet humor puns. Jet gives him a barely passing grade and assigns him to 100 hours of latrine duty to, in her words, help you complete your discovery.
Sean Ferrell: There you go.
Matt Ferrell: Thanks, Mark.
Sean Ferrell: Now, to our discussion, which always starts off the same way. Yes. The lights they flash. The sounds they call out. It's the read alert. It's time for Matt to read the Wikipedia description.
Matt Ferrell: The Enterprise travels with an alien ambassador who must travel inside a special case because his appearance causes insanity.
Sean Ferrell: That's right.
Matt Ferrell: In a nutshell, that's right.
Sean Ferrell: Oh, that old cliche. Here we are. Is there in truth, no beauty? As I mentioned, October 18, 1968. What was the world like at the time of original broadcast? Boy, Matt, you'll be excited to know. Yes, Bad Bunny is behind you, but that's right, Hey Jude is still in front of you. Take it away, Matt. Fun fact about this song. Sean hates it. Yeah, I mean, na na na na for five minutes. I don't need that in my life. Thank you. I respect the Beatles and Paul McCartney's a genius, but hey, Jude, you can go now. And at the movies, people are lining up to see Barbarella. We've talked about this before. This is Jane Fonda's campy sci fi flick. And on television we've been looking at the shows that were competition for Trek and we've moved through a wide variety of programming. It's really, it really is stunning the variety of programming that has been on the air for all these decades. And on any given night you can see this is Tom Jones and Felony Squad and the Generation Gap and Judd for the defense. It's just all over the place. Westerns, song and dance, entertaining troops. Well, there's also some game shows in there. Yep, we're looking at on ABC, part of their summer lineup included the program let's Make a Deal. I would be surprised if in our audience the name of this show was new. Yes, this is a show that has effectively been on the air since its invention in 1963. Lets make a Deal is an American game show originated in the US in 1963 and has since been produced in many countries around the world. The program was created and produced by Stefan Hatos and Monty Hall, the latter serving as its host for nearly 30 years. So the show has been on in various forms and various time slots for a long time. And the most recent one that I was familiar with is the version with Wayne Brady.
It's a stalwart and it even has a well known mathematical not dilemma, but logic puzzle named after it. Matt, are you familiar with the Monty Hall problem?
Matt Ferrell: No.
Sean Ferrell: You're given three doors, they open up the first door to show you what your prize is. They say now you can trade that in for one of these other doors and maybe get a better prize. Is it worth making that trade or are you better off sticking with the initial choice you made? And mathematically it is in your advantage. Can you guess just off the top of your head, can you guess what it would be to your advantage to
Matt Ferrell: do to open one of the other doors? I would assume it is to your
Sean Ferrell: advantage to open one of the other doors. It basically boils down to the chances of getting the biggest prize. The first time is one and three, but it's one and two on the second go. So it's kind of counterintuitive. Which explains why the game show lasted as long as it did because when presented with well, you just want a moped. Would you like to keep the moped or trade it in for potentially a bigger prize than one of these other two doors? And you know, one of them has a goat. Yeah, it's worth trading in basically every time. So interesting and in the news. This page of headlines to me stood out because of how much it seemed like it could be a headline from today's newspaper. There are discussions around school issues. There is a police contract issue. There is the stuff going on with conflicts in the Middle East. There is conflict around the war going on in Vietnam. We have, of course, ongoing now, multiple conflicts, major conflicts that are going on. The US Is involved in some of them, not involved in others. But all of this seemed so of today. But one headline stood out as kind of the sad trombone of them all. Humphrey is told Connecticut tide is shifting to him. This, this stood out as, whoa, somebody is really trying to grasp at the last little glimmers of hope as they headed to the 1968 presidential election and pretty much everybody knew Richard Nixon was going to win, but the mighty electoral count of Connecticut was headed toward Hubert Humphrey. Good job, Hubert. On now to our discussion of this episode. I think Matt's let a little cat out of the bag and his refusal to answer the question, are you happy to be back in the original series, man? Well, I don't know. We'll talk about that later.
So I would like to jump in first with an introduction of a particular guest actor, talk about that guest actor in this episode, talked about this guest actor in the larger Trek world, and then take it from there. I am of course talking about David Frankham who played Larry Marvick. No, I'm not. I am of course talking about Diana Muldaur who played Dr. Miranda Jones. Diana Muldaur plays Miranda Jones in this episode and then goes on to be the replacement doctor of Dr. Kathryn Pulaski in the second season of Star Next Generation. After I'm pulling this just from memory, contract disputes with Gates McFadden, I believe it was where she was then told, well, thank you, but no. And then they replaced her and then they brought her back because the fan base largely was just like, what is a Pulaski? Why is it here? As I was watching this episode, I had a couple of different responses to her and I'm just curious to, like, get your feelings about this. I've seen her in a number of different things. I think she was in an episode of Murder She Wrote that I saw recently. There's every, every now and then she'll pop in as a guest star. She was on Law and Order or not Law and Order. She was on LA Law. And one of the things that stood out to me, and I wonder if this is part of the response on Next Generation to her, I was suddenly thinking, she is of the same acting school as William Shatner. There was. I talked to you. This is now, I think, several months ago, I talked to you about a YouTube video I had watched where somebody examined Shatner's acting style and broke it down in a way to defend it and say, he's actually really good at doing these things. And it was a style of acting at the time. And what he was doing was largely a reading the lines as if he's searching for the words and kind of discovering what he's going to say as he says it.
And that, of course, becomes parodied then in the halting what is humanity if not hope? That kind of delivery becomes a joke. But when you break it down the way this person did, saying, like, look at what he's doing. He is doing things physically. He is giving the idea that he's halfway through a sentence before he knows where it's going to conclude. And he's discovering in the moment how he feels about these things as he's saying them. And when you look at it from that lens, he's good. And you and I have talked in our analysis of this series again and again of, look at the work Shatner's doing. He's really good in this. This is well done. And I found myself landing on that with Muldaur in this episode in particular, because she was delivering lines in a very similar way. There was a lot of. There were a lot of moments where it felt like she was presenting in the same kind of halted dialogue, where she was inventing the words as she was moving forward. And I thought, interesting, because in my memory, one of the things that stood out in Next Generation was she didn't feel. Feel like she fit in. And I could never put my finger on why. And it was watching this episode I began to think was part of it, that her acting style was a throwback to this earlier form of acting, television acting in particular, that was not on display with anybody else. You get Jonathan Frakes in there. Jonathan Frakes is not manufacturing any kind of. I'm inventing the end of the sentence as I'm starting the beginning of it. He is a very modern, contemporary acting style. You have Brent Spiner, who is doing, effectively, method acting. You've got Patrick Stewart bringing in his Shakespearean training, but honing it for the small screen in a way that doesn't look anything like a manufactured stage presentation, like you might get out of a stage actor. And I.
I found myself thinking, was this a case of her being a favorite of Roddenberry and being pulled into the show of Next Generation in a way that was not enough of a message to her, to evolve with a new era or to present in a different way, to land in the crew in a way that kind of fit in differently or. And I say all of that. That's a long preamble for me to say this, because I liked her in this. I do not like her in Next Generation. So I found myself thinking, like, what's at play here? Did you see anything in this performance from her that you thought was a kind of surprising element of the performance itself, or were you just landing on the. I'm looking at this, and this is the show that I'm given to watch this week, and we're gonna talk about this show. She's either good or bad in it.
Matt Ferrell: It's a little more of the second. Sean. She was very good in this. I thought she was excellent in this. And there was nuance to her performance that doesn't exist in Next Generation because it's a different character. I don't know if I agree with your assessment of her acting ability being the reason that Dr. Pulaski sucks. Because she sucks. It's not Muldaur's fault. I think the fault is on Roddenberry for Next Generation. Dr. Pulaski not working. They literally tried to make a female Bones. She's a cranky old doctor, and she is stiff and rigid in her performance, which is radically different from her performance in this episode. And that's the thing that surprised me, because I thought maybe she's not that great of an actor from Next Generation. But then I saw her in this. I was like, oh, wait, she's actually doing a very different thing here. And she's really good. She's doing a really good job. So that it's kind of like the Scott Bakula Captain Archer thing, where it's like, the first month of watching that show, I was like, is Scott Bakula a bad actor? Because he's so rigid and weird and awkward, and it's like, oh, no, no. That's the character he was creating. And that's how I look at Dr. Pulaski. It's not an antiquated acting style that comes across for Dr. Pulaski. It's the way they wrote the character. She's too cranky. She's too crotchety. She's too stiff and rigid. It was just a character that didn't blend with anybody else in the. So they created Bones. But the show didn't need a Bones. It already had the mix it needed, and it just, like, that's why it didn't work. So I don't blame Muldaur at all for her acting ability, for why Pulaski failed.
Sean Ferrell: What about this one where we see her presented? It deals with a disability in an interesting way because it's keeping it hidden in a way that is something that contemporary Trek does not do. Contemporary Trek presents disability as a part of people's lives, but it's presented in a way that is. There's no shame in it. There's no hiding it. This one leans into a very contemporary, like, I'm embarrassed by this. I don't want to be seen as weak. She presents the idea of pity being the worst emotion possible, which is. I don't disagree with the argument about pity. The idea of pitying a person is one of. Of. It incorporates all sorts of elements of privilege and position and power, and it's. It's a very stark emotion to deal with. This presents a future in which technology allows you to hide, as opposed to more contemporary depictions which try to lean into the. The technology can lift you up, but you don't have to hide who and what you are. And it creates this sort of weird conversation between two eras of Trek where I don't know that either of them gets it 100% right. Because ultimately that disability, that thing that you are and is you and you have to deal with or manage or just have, is also intimately private. So the end of this program seems to be sending a bit of a blaming the victim of, you should have told us you were blind. And Bones does have a good defense of, like, it was her. Like it. None of our business. He comes in with a. Like, she didn't do anything wrong. But there is. It's still said in a way that kind of I found jarring. And then I think about later depictions of disability, like Geordi, a blind man being, you know, wearing a banana clip on his head. Effectively, it's just constantly on display, like, don't forget this guy's blind. And I don't know that either of them get it quite right.
So it created this kind of interesting moment for me of what that is doing to her as a character and what it's doing to the performance and the takeaway from it all. How did you feel about that? That element of the story when it's revealed toward the end, like, this is why she can be in that room and not be wearing the Go Go Gadget visor.
Matt Ferrell: This is gonna get wrapped up into all the different kind of plot elements for me, Sean, because I thought this was insanely stupid. It was just stupid. I thought the entire episode was stupid. I didn't like anything about this episode. I kept checking my watch every five minutes. Oh my God, there's 20 minutes to go. Oh my God, there's 18 minutes to go. Oh my God,. There's still 17 minutes to go. And it felt like I'd just been watching 10 minutes of a show, but only a minute had passed. I hated this episode in every conceivable way. And one of the reasons is what you just brought up here is the fact that she's blind explains why she can be in the room with this ugly creature and not go insane. Okay? But it's not some kind of big dramatic, you know, Sixth Sense plot twist when it's revealed. And it just comes across as all these dudes who thought this woman was beautiful were attracted to and trying to woo in a very sexist way, the way the whole thing's portrayed. You hid this for me. You lied to me. It's like, why? Why? What is the show trying to convey to me, the viewer, by having Kirk react that way, having the other characters react that way, what is it that's supposed to convey to me? And I got nothing out of it. And part of the reason for that, it felt to me like a five year old's sketch of an idea for an episode of Star Trek. It was not sophisticated, it was so simplistic, it was so on the nose, it was so of the time. It was increally sexist. There was so much sexism in this episode, it was driving me nuts. It almost broke me, Sean. So when you asked me at the beginning, how did you feel about going back to the original series? It was. It, yeah, it was like, for me, this was like whiplash because I so enjoyed the Kurtzman Trek of Starfleet Academy. And it was so well thought out for every episode. And it was exciting and fun.
And then I just, like somebody like, slammed on the emergency brakes on the highway in a snowy conditions. And I felt like I was in a car spinning out of control, going off into the edge of the highway. It was just. This episode was just like jumping into, like, you know, people who go out in the winter and they jump into the. Yes. That's what I felt like. It was like, oh, I don't like this. Get me out of this pool. It's too cold. It was. That's how I felt watching this episode. So it didn't work. The whole blind aspect did not work. And I even had my notes as I was watching this. It was like I completely forgot about the plot of this episode. But there was one scene early where I was like, is she blind? And then later, when it turns out that she's blind, I was like, oh, that was actually some pretty good subtle acting that Muldaur was doing. Because there were, like, very tiny hints that they were dropping along the way, which I thought was really nice and subtle. But at the end of the day, it was like, what's the point? There was. There was no point to it other than a plot reveal. There was nothing to do with. It didn't really. There was no meaning behind what they were trying to convey. And the main message of the episode was like, Beauty and the Beast. The whole idea that here's somebody that's. She's beautiful. She's so beautiful. And they kept bringing that up. And all the guys at the dinner just hitting on her non stop in a very lecherous way was just really weird. And then they were even asking, how can you work with something that's so ugly? And it was like, are you? Are you? Are you? You remember, they actually said that, Sean. They actually said that. How can you work with something that's so ugly? The idea that something is so ugly it makes you insane is the dumbest childish idea.
They could have potentially said something like, this is a multidimensional being. We exist in three dimensions. They exist in, like, eight. And so when you look at them, your brain can't conceive of what you're looking in. Time's folding in on itself. And you're seeing all this kind of crazy stuff in this creature. And it will literally drive you mad. And the only reason that the Vulcans can't get going. Don't go nuts. Is they put these red visors on that, filter certain light out to help reduce some of that effect. And then the Vulcanness of them being super logical, they can kind of push through the rest of it. And they can look at the thing.
Sean Ferrell: Right.
Matt Ferrell: Nothing to do with ugliness. Yeah. Super Sci Fi thing.
Sean Ferrell: It's like.
Matt Ferrell: But here's this childish. It's so ugly, it will drive you insane. What are we doing here, Sean? What are we doing?
Sean Ferrell: Yeah. The real ugliness is in her. Because when we see the possession of the thing in Despatch, we see how calm and lovely he is as an individual.
Matt Ferrell: But. But wait, Sean, it gets worse. Because all the stuff you were just describing about her character, Muldar's character. It was. She. They. Her background was that she was basically, like, raised on Vulcan and she's very Vulcan. Like, because she was raised on Vulcan and trained in the Vulcan ways. And she's. She's a human, but she can control her emotions to a certain extent and. Wait, what? She's the most jealous person on the ship and she's kind of devious. Like, the. The whole aspect of. If she grew up on Vulcan and was trained in the Vulcan ways, why is she acting the way she is? It contradict the storytelling contradicted itself. So the rules they established didn't make sense. Right. Like, everything about this episode, Sean, sucked. I just don't. I got so angry watching it.
Sean Ferrell: Let me. Let me.
Matt Ferrell: But if you. If anybody liked this episode, you're not stupid. I'm talking about my feelings.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah.
Matt Ferrell: If you like this episode, that's totally fine. Totally fine. I hated it.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah.
Matt Ferrell: But that's.
Sean Ferrell: Let me say this is. This falls into the category for me of, 1950s pulp sci fi tropes. I always. I always dig them. I'm always like, the idea of it's a being that, if you look at it, will drive you insane. I love that as a concept for this.
Matt Ferrell: Me too.
Sean Ferrell: You mentioned your pitch for how would you do it? And you made a pitch and I was just like, wow, that would have been a great episode. Because what this episode is, is actually HP Lovecraft. This is the Cthulhu. This is. There's a truth out there, an alien out there that is so other as to drive you mad and drive these monstrous urges. It drives the jealousy. So it's presenting the idea that, yes, she's blind, she can be in the room with it and not go mad, but she's gone mad still. So it's almost. This is more of a horror story. It's almost like a Hammer film. They went up to the castle. There's the beautiful woman in the castle. Don't go in that room. There's something in that room that will drive you mad. And it turns out she's actually the evil one. That's all this is. This is just a monster movie. I agree with you. It doesn't land well. Now, from the sexism angle, I don't like the disability angle, what they did with that, but I love the concept. And your concept would have been brilliant. I would have loved if. If it had been like, they exist on so many dimensional levels that your brain will break. And then you get that moment of the guy running through the ship and attacking everybody in engineering. He's somehow able to fight off three men all at once, despite the fact he looks like he weighs about 115 pounds, takes over the ship and flies them to its. Its lit. They fly to another dimension is what they keep saying. We're in a different dimension. And I'm like, they literally flew to where Star Trek 5 goes. It's.
Matt Ferrell: Yes, they did.
Sean Ferrell: They literally go there. And I'm like. I'm like, this is almost the prequel episode to that movie. Like, hey, remember when we flew through the galaxy barrier and we ended up in that place and it was all because of you. Look at that being. And you're gonna go mad. We're gonna make a movie which is gonna explain what that place was like. It's weird. It's weird for a lot of different reasons. But it also. You said there's nothing about this episode I like. There's nothing about this episode that I like. There are moments in this episode that I adored because of character moments. I love Spock meeting Muldaur's character and her saying, I do not like space travel, because I think it's this, that, and the other thing. He's like, we have a ship's Doctor who's just like that. I thought that was funny. I thought it was funny when Spock is possessed by the being and McCoy turns and says, that's not Spock. And then Spock says something to the Doctor and the Doctor goes, that's Spock. Like little moments like that that stood out, that I was like, these actors know these characters and the writers know that the actors know these characters and are giving them these moments to chew on with each other. The dinner scene is terribly sexist, but I like some of the back and forth between the characters when they're not talking about the woman, when they're talking to each other, all of that felt very like, that's all good. And then it's. And there's a moment where it's, did you wear that idic to intimidate me? And Shatner goes into it with like, no, no, I don't think he would do that. And defends his first officer. And Spock goes like, I was honoring you by wearing this thing because I know you grew up in Vulcan. And they go back and forth for the briefest bit and. And then Kirk literally says, well, enough of that. Let me go back to honoring your beauty.
And it is, yes, so ham fisted. It is so strange. And so I land in very. I'm not necessarily standing in your boots, but I am next to you in. The terrain of this episode isn't working, But I had more in it that I was enjoying as I was. I wouldn't say I was hate watching it, but it was. I watched it almost as if it was a Mystery Science Theater. Like, it's so bad. It's fun where you were watching it as. This is just. I don't like this. This. This does not feel good. I was watching it with a kind of. Like, I could think of the riffs that should have been said at various moments, because I was like, yeah, this is. This is not landing well. And it shouldn't have landed in the 60s either. You shouldn't have a show where it's just like, gentlemen to beauty. She's sitting right here. Let's talk about her as if she's not in the room.
Matt Ferrell: How can you.
Sean Ferrell: Can you believe she sits with ugliness? Like, what? None of that made any sense, but I found myself ironically enjoying various aspects of this. So I don't disagree with you at all, though.
Matt Ferrell: The punchline of all of this, for me, entire episode, I'm like, nothing is making logical sense to me. There's no point to the storytelling. It's just happening because it's happening. Everything's. It's contradicting itself left and right all over the place. And the last. The last scene, Sean, they're beaming her off the ship. They made a huge ordeal when she arrived.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah.
Matt Ferrell: All the humans have to get out of the transport thing. Spock can be in there. He puts his red little thing on, beams them on board, then takes it back off. Because in the beaming process, you probably are going to get a glimpse of this thing. So all the humans out, they're beaming her away. Spock walks over to the captain, and Spock are in the, Spock walks over, puts the red visor on, and beams them away. Meanwhile, the captain is standing off on the side, like, wait, wait, wait, wait. What did you just do? Is it. Is the, Kirk go nuts now because he saw him beam away? It was. For me, that was just like the. The cherry on top of all the insanity of this episode.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah. If you were a, like, really hardcore, like, literalist. Like, we talk about it in, like, judicial decision making and stuff like that. Like, you're a literalist, a constitutionalist. Like, what's in the Constitution is the law, and there's no interpreting. It's just the word of the Law. If you're a literalist about Trek, then from this episode forward, you have to watch it with the understanding that Captain Kirk is insane.
Matt Ferrell: Yes. Yes.
Sean Ferrell: Which creates an interesting interpretation of everything he does after this. Because we know coming up in the movies, he. He ignores orders left and right. He gets. He steals a ship, he goes back in time to get whales. Just like from a certain perspective.
Matt Ferrell: Did we just Trek 5?
Sean Ferrell: Did we unlock all of Trek? Did we just.
Matt Ferrell: Yes, I think we did.
Sean Ferrell: I think we did.
Matt Ferrell: I think we did.
Sean Ferrell: Well done, everybody. Good job. Time to go home. So everybody jump into the comments, please. We're back in the original series. Let us know. Are you happy to be back or did this one just make you say, oof, we're back. Ugh. We gonna continue with this? Well, good news, everybody. We are. We're gonna watch next week. Empath. Please jump into the comments. Wrong answers only. Let us know what Empath is about. Also, let us know what you thought about this conversation. Is there something about this episode that you think pushes it into the positive zone for you that Matt and I missed? Please, we want to know. Or do you think, yeah, this one had some things in it that just should have been left in 1960s. Let us know that as well. As always, your comments are great, deeply appreciated, as are your likes, your subscriptions, and sharing with your friends. Those are all very easy ways for you to support this podcast. If you'd like to support us more directly, you can go to trekintime.show. You can click the join button there. Not only will it allow you to support us directly, but you will be made an ensign, which means you will be signed up for our spin off program out of time to talk about things that don't fit within the confines of this program. We hope you'll be interested in checking that out. Thank you so much everybody for taking time to watch or listen and we'll talk to you next time.