The New World

Ryan welcomes returning co-host Craig back to The Director’s Chair Network for Terrence Malick’s *The New World* (2005).

They talk first viewings in theaters, why Malick belongs on the biggest screen possible, the three existing cuts of the film, Emmanuel Lubezki’s natural-light cinematography, and James Horner’s famously unhappy score experience. The conversation covers Colin Farrell as John Smith, Christian Bale as John Rolfe, Q’orianka Kilcher’s breakout as Pocahontas, Christopher Plummer’s brief but sharp work, and how the movie handles the historical romance without turning it into Disney.

Craig previously hosted the Brian De Palma season on the network. Also happening on the channel: Sam Peckinpah coverage from Scott Murphy, plus thanks to Katie (John Hughes), Andy (Edgar Wright), and Sicco (Paul Verhoeven). Ryan and Craig also tease covering Michael Mann’s *Heat 2* when it arrives.

A long, immersive sit with one of Malick’s most visually stunning films.

00:00 – Intro, Craig returns, network updates (Peckinpah, De Palma, Hughes, Wright, Verhoeven) 
04:00 – Their history with Malick and first seeing *The New World* in theaters 
10:00 – Three cuts of the film and the Criterion set 
14:00 – James Horner’s score and his public frustration 
20:00 – Plot overview: Jamestown, Smith, Pocahontas, Rolfe 
28:00 – Look, authenticity, and Lubezki’s cinematography 
35:00 – Colin Farrell and the John Smith romance 
42:00 – Christian Bale as John Rolfe 
48:00 – Q’orianka Kilcher’s casting, age, and performance 
58:00 – Christopher Plummer and the fighting sequences 
1:05:00 – How Malick actually directs on set 
1:12:00 – Final thoughts, box office, and why the film has grown  
1:16:00 – Heat 2 tease and wrap-up

Creators and Guests

Host

Craig Cohen

Host

Ryan Rebalkin

What is The Director's Chair Network?

Join Ryan and many featured guests and other hosts as they break down and review a variety of directors and their films!
So far, this podcast has featured films from Edward Zwick, John Hughes, Brian De Palma, and Michael Mann.
Soon, we will feature Edgar Wright, Sam Peckinpah, Paul Verhoeven, and David Fincher!

hello and welcome to another episode of the director's chair network i am your host ryan
and with me today i have a special guest returning co-host may time collaborator co-host craig
co-host and who actually did the brian diploma season on this network craig welcome back yeah
thanks ryan it's uh it's great to be here and it's really been great to see you know another sort of
network develop it's always cool when when an idea is born and then it's it's expanded by people and
taken in great directions and uh you know been some great great talk about some great directors
here here on the network yeah the time is recording uh sam peckinpah will be joining the network
director sam peckinpah hosted by uh hosted run by scott murphy yeah he's running that i believe
i'm going on one of his you're doing wild bunch aren't you because i tried to get wild bunch and
he said it was taken by ryan already who is the western guy uh but it's cool i got another western
i got a pat garrett and billy the kid oh fun i told scott i wanted to do uh bring me the head of
alfredo garcia as well and but i guess i guess only one uh one per customer i guess he's got enough
people which is a good problem to have peckinpah is a perfect choice for this network and i mean
it's weird because he seems like the kind of director that is talked about probably in certain films
you know uh circles you know when people talk about you know gritty action movies or
uncompromising action movies prior to like you know the joel silver definition of action movies
right but outside of that i don't think people give him at least contemporarily i mean back then the
critics i'm sure we're fine nowadays you don't really hear people talk about the themes in peckinpah's
work he was a very thematic filmmaker so i'm i'm anxious to see the discussions around that especially
wild bunch so you've got a lot you've got some uh heavy expectations ryan oh boy why would you put
that on me i'm just i'm just a nobody podcaster i don't know what i'm doing i'll do my best i'll do
my wild bunch is a very very theme heavy movie and uh it's it's it's wonderful it's uh you want to
switch you're making me feel nervous it's supposed to be a fun hobby i'm not supposed to be nervous
about podcasting no not at all you'll do fine all right well i'm looking forward to that thank you to
scott for that and of course thanks to you for your brian de palma coverage thank you to kate for
john hughes coverage thanks to andy for his edgar wright coverage and of course thanks to siko for
his paul verhoeven cover so the directors are building on the show here this is great well this
is the season that i'm covering where we continue our terence malik films you're the fourth guest co-host
on this you were with me of course on ed's wick where we covered a couple uh i always call on you
every time if not once or twice per season depending on how many films i have uh per director
but we did uh zwick we did you remember which ones we did last samurai and pawn sacrifice and then
and then jack reacher wow three yeah okay and then of course we did the great uh the insider
oh the michael man yeah and you know what ryan it's funny when we recorded that we sort of talked about
how how much it was reflecting what's going on in 2025 and it's even more you know with everything that's
going on at cbs cbs right it's so funny to to think about the insider which you know the story
is over 30 years old you almost wonder how like a lowe bergman would have handled all of the nonsense
that's going on at cbs right now but you know there's not enough hours to talk about that but
no yeah it was it was great i mean uh really interesting too that you went from michael mann to
terrence malick i mean oh yeah i'm not gonna say it's a you know a crazy turn sure uh but it's
definitely you know uh taking an exit on the trip you know was kind of unexpected because
terrence malick this was his fourth film in what oh in 20 like over 20 years close to almost 30 years
almost yeah you know so he took a lot of time off after um days of heaven and his films are
as flashy as michael mann's films are terrence malick's are more like vibes right yeah well we're
gonna get into it well that's what we're gonna talk about as i do with all my co-hosts on the on these
journeys with the directors that i cover on my seasons i asked said uh guests such as yourself craig
what is your fandom if any and or journey uh of terrence malick was the first film you saw and what
have you seen since that first film it's wild um because you know we lived through his sort of comeback
film yeah thin red line so i remember at the time you know there was a lot of talk about the thin red line
being you know terrence malick's return after x amount of years so uh and that was also during like
the what the world war ii boom of the what late 90s early 2000s so i saw thin red line in theaters
by the time and and liked it of course so by the time the new world came about i i was like oh terrence
malick you know i mean i was familiar with badlands and days of heaven had probably casually watched those
not like seriously or anything opening weekend i probably went and saw the new world in it i'm not one
of these guys that say certain movies or certain filmmakers are made for the cinematic experience
but man terrence malick is really made for the biggest screen possible and the loudest sound system
possible because as i was watching the new world uh last night in preparation for this i remembered
sitting in the theater and being like man this was such a great theatrical experience and not to take away
from the experience at home but i'm like it you just it doesn't have to be a big explosive fast and
the furious avatar fire and ash type movie to you know to sort of help you understand what the theatrical
experience is all about yeah i saw this in the theaters too in 2005 then i ended up buying on blu-ray
when it came on you know home media i bought the blu-ray so and at this time now i've owned the thin red line
and the new world on blu-ray i've become kind of a let's say like a malik's fan per se because
or malik's or malik's a malik fan per se because at this time i'll only have two of two of his four
movies on dvd and i don't even think at this time even though five i'd seen days of heaven yet or badlands
i have of course since and and a few times since but uh the new world it had everything even if i didn't
know terence malik or was even that excited to see another film or imagining of what he could do in
film i was nonetheless excited because i loved the thin red line and i loved his vision of the war movie
of the war scene the scenery in that area of the world what he did with war the poetry the shots all
all that stuff so i bought in you know i i liked it i knew he was a different storyteller
and a different way of showing film that this is a i hate the term artsy i hate that term but it's
sort of a term you have to use here it's a different it's not michael bay it's not even steven spielberg
he has an aesthetic and he has a look it's not a question of oh if you don't get terence you're
stupid no not at all it's just it's like anything it's just taste some people like certain flavors or
cuts of meat or whatever it is or certain types of drinks like we all just have different tastes and
i'm i'm not one of those snotty film goers i recognize the criticisms and of malik and even
when i'm watching this for the podcast i almost find myself being more objective than i usually am
when i'm watching for a podcast i find myself being i wouldn't say critical but i i guess i
get why people might be bored i get why people might be like hurry up now we're going to talk about
some of those criticisms with this actually from some of the actors from this film and yeah yeah yeah yeah
like you i saw this in the theaters loved it all the same things you said it's a big theater
experience the cinematography the scenery you feel like you're part of this universe in nature yeah no
and that's where it comes down to like the boredom aspect of it how could you get bored with those
visuals and that soundtrack you said different strokes and i mean you know but i but i think if
you're prepared going in to know what you're seeing period pieces in general are always sort of a tougher
sell because they're they're taking place in a time that doesn't exist anymore technology was
different they weren't just sitting around in virginia watching tv had to do things to keep
themselves occupied the natives had to do things to keep themselves occupied that landscape and and that
setting they shot over a million feet of film from what i read something like that again a standard malik
is a standard malik use of film i don't know what that is a film like for normal films that it has to be
a lot more than the average film i presume just for i guess for people that are really going to get
nitpicky about this sure we watched what is considered the extended cut this is the 151 minute 172 minute
okay um oh so it's two hours and 51 minutes or whatever that's right yeah yeah so apparently malik previewed
135 135 minute cut and then prior to releasing wide he cut what 15 minutes off of it brought it down to
like 120 or 125 and then for home video he did an extended cut so there's actually three separate cuts of this
movie that you can watch and if actually if you buy the criterion blu-ray yes uh you can get all three cuts of the movie i'm one of those weird guys if there's the longer version available
i'm just always going to watch whatever that longer version is i wouldn't tell somebody to watch apocalypse now
redux are you kidding no no without watching the theatrical first okay maybe i i guess i'm not even
apocalypse now like like nerd i can only watch the redux version now have you seen the final cut is that another cut
another cut oh my gosh to answer your question i guess i haven't seen the i still haven't seen the godfather
three revamp version yeah i want to see that it's on paramount plus so i do want to see that yeah and and actually
this is really exciting uh they they recently put out uh all three godfather films in a in 4k i already owned the coppola restoration
on blu-ray and i was like i don't need to own these movies again i only have them on dvd so maybe a 4k jump might be good yeah well so
so here's the thing so one of the big criticisms of the coppola restoration was sure it's the way francis
wants the films to look sure but they're not true to the way they looked in the theaters oh so this 4k
release they did another restoration that was truer to the theatrical release experience so that's how i
justified buying the movies yet a third time dvd blu-ray 4k if you're really interested it's the
first time that the theatrical cut of the godfather part three is available on home video when it came out
on vhs originally it was coppola's director's cut so you now have on the 4k you have the um the coda but you
you know part three the coda cut which i guess is francis's final word on it but you've also got that
director's cut and then you've got the original theatrical cut which like i again i've said has
never been available on home video so as a you know a sort of as a godfather freak if that's what you are
that's reason enough to get the 4k's the commentary tracks on those movies are are worth the price alone
you can say a lot of things about coppola you know nowadays in terms of expressing how he executes
his art some of his commentaries are some of the best i've ever heard oh interesting okay he's actually
a director i've hummed and hot about doing on this i mean one from the heart i'm on board for one from
the heart oh as soon as you're ready to go he's done a lot of films even before the godfather movies
it'd be very interesting to see these early films of his yeah well he came out of that roger corman school
that's right a lot of those guys came out of you know basically any 70s heavyweight making films with
the exception of terence malick cut their teeth with roger corman okay and terence malick's uh canadian
right no no he's not canadian okay of course he was born in ottawa okay ottawa illinois ah that's what
threw me off i remember seeing ottawa illinois and i was like i didn't even know there was an ottawa illinois
that's funny yeah so yeah like you read it first oh he's born in ottawa usa yeah just like there's an
ontario california okay yeah yeah so yeah this is only his fourth film's 2005 release if you can
believe it's already 20 years ago this movie came out stars of course christian bale colin farrell of
course and i got her name heard it so i could know how to pronounce it oh wow he played pocahontas of
course it's all you man it's not as bad as it looks it's just corianca that's it corianca
okay i know it looks it has the q with the apostrophe but i heard it it's a corianca kilter
now do you know that in uh in the movie pocahontas the name is never mentioned her name no yeah yeah
yeah well they basically say she doesn't have a name right like until she's baptized she becomes
yeah yeah yeah we're gonna get to that before we get to that of course let's talk about you mentioned
the soundtrack and it is a beautiful soundtrack by james horner the beautiful composer james horner who's
done such incredible film uh obviously scores in his career he was not happy with this though
malik probably used the music in a way that horner wasn't anticipating uh but horner has to know he's
worked with big personalities before he worked with james cameron at that point you have to be able to
realize that it's not your vision are you right about over one million feet of film was shot that's that's
incredible kodak sent malik champagne it definitely has to be an anomaly like uh that's funny regarding
the score malik cut the film around a completed score rather than composing the score to the picture
this course frustrated the several of the collaborators including james horner so james horner called it the
the most disappointed experience of his career i when i first saw it it was a mishmash of unrelated scenes
complete mishmash and i said well terry you need to he asked me what i thought i said well you need to
coalesce this i mean this this scene should be there i mean all kinds of editing things were wrong
i knew and i warned everybody this man does not have a clue what to do with movie music or how it works
not a clue the good editors left they brought in more assistance and it was cut by a bunch of incompetence
there was no real editor all day when they forcibly kicked him off the dubbing stage because he was just
spending hour after hour doing nothing it was like shuffling cubes in a shuffling the tiles in a rubik's cube
there was never a solution all he would do is shuffle scene d over to scene x or scene y and y would go up to a
and it was a love story and terry doesn't feel those feelings all i can say is terry is like a
on the surface a stone and he does not know how to tell a love story to save his life who took the story
that could have been one of the great love stories and was one of the great love stories of history
and turned it into crap and it's because he doesn't believe in those things he doesn't understand them and
most importantly he has not an emotion in his body everybody felt betrayed everybody to a man thought
he was insane by this time i was no longer i i just said basically fuck you so i just did say a four
letter word i said but he would play it for the studio and there were 35 people would come to the screenings
and slowly over the course of three hours because it was a three-hour movie they'd walk out
the the the own the film company's own employees would walk out of the film malik loved the score by
james horner but barely used it opting instead for mozart and wagner etc even horner's and credit song listen to the wind was dropped
okay so so you said horner cut to the picture no malik cut the film around the score rather than composing to the picture at the end of the day
horner got a paycheck he was able to cash right i know so he's one of a couple people we're gonna talk
about who called us a very disappointing experience and that's to say that's your most disappointing
experience of your career that's kind of a harsh take for poor for poor malik there but that's what
happened james horner okay have you seen any of the post new world films by the way before we continue
talking about this i'm just curious like you know what uh it's funny i i looked them up afterwards i think the
biggest one was probably the tree of life yeah that came out six years after this one which i i did not
see i think um for whatever reason in 2011 um i just didn't have it in me to get get to the theater to see
it and i was probably on to uh other stuff visually or sure from a filmmaking perspective i didn't realize
how many films he's he's made since the new world at least four other films well that's what's crazy
so thin red line was his comeback film in 98 so it's 20 years after days of heaven then he took an
additional seven years after this to do the new world then he's shortened up a little bit more tree of
life came out in 2011 so a six-year break and then the next year he does to the wonder with ben affleck
and then in 2015 he does neither cups with christian bale and then 2016 he does a documentary
which i contemplated covering for this journey but i thought no i'm not gonna do documentaries that just
gets two in the weeds for every director that does a documentary so two cuts of that documentary too
right oh i'm sure there's a a full 35 millimeter cut and i bet you it looks gorgeous on the imax and
look if this was playing at an imax i'd probably go see if that makes sense okay well from what i remember
this is just reading last night after i saw the movie the imax version is 40 minutes long and it's narrated by brad pitt
the theatrical version is 90 minutes and it's narrated by cate blanchett how can you not cover that man
uh okay fine i'll see that's gonna be you or somebody i don't know who's gonna want to do that with me we'll see
well first of all is it even accessible was it ever released on home video i think it is we'll find it if i can't find it we'll figure it out
but right now it's no one's been assigned to it so when i get to night of cups between night of cups
or song and so song to song came in two years after night of cups and that has ryan gosling and michael
fassbender natalie portman and cape blanchett so there you go and then 2019 no actor that i know of
and this is going to be an interesting one to do because it's called the hidden life it came out 2019
even malik said himself he said oh i better tighten up my scripts a little bit this film was sort of a nod to
that so i'm curious to see how he does that not to say that all the other films in between tree of life and hidden
life are gong shows of poetry but i'm prepared that i'm gonna see a lot of imagery with a lot of
nonsensical uh sort of plots but i'm prepared for it but that doesn't happen quite in the new world we
do have a story here craig in the new world don't we it's basically what um a non-disney
telling of the pocahontas story yeah and malik was a fan of the disney film by the way he was actually
a fan fan of christian bale and i think the other actor another actor actress was in that movie they
were part of that pocahontas film playing different characters so that's part of the reason why terence
wanted them on this film he enjoyed their performances the animated film that disney did and you could
actually tell kilter i'll just call her kilter who plays both that she uh korya conca i think so yeah i can
well the hair alone i mean that's pocahontas's hair is pretty there was a scene where she's walking
around with a sort of like a deerskin dress outfit it's like it looked just like the pocahontas outfit
from the cartoon it was pretty lawyers on the phone apparently there's no historical
documentation that john smith and pocahontas had any kind of romantic relationship i did not watch this
film as a historical study of of the actual some of these people are real like john roe played for
christian bale of course the captain well that aspect of the story is closest to the truth that's
right she did visit the queen and all that stuff because the outfit that koryanka wears as pocahontas
to the queen was according to paintings they got the same outfit that she wore they got that down that
little sequence is a very quick sequence at the end of the film but boy she looked great that was a great
costume the costume well let's talk about just the look of this film craig it just how authentic does
this film look oh 100 there was no point during this movie where like you saw any seams you know like
you know i'm looking deep into the background to see if i can see the hints of technology is there uh
is there a telephone wire deep in the background or a car you know sometimes in those movies you see
cars like on a highway that's too far out of the shot they found unmolested territory i guess in virginia
because i think malik shot most of it where it happened yeah um just undeveloped territory and uh
you pair those visuals with that score and even without score with just the sounds of nature it's a total
vibe this movie i actually i was like damn i should have taken an edible before this yeah okay so here's
some quick notes a quick overview of the film before we get into some of the different actors
so it's terrence malik's poetic retelling of the jamestown founding pocahontas john smith and john
rolf remains a visually staggering film to this day emmanuel lubetsky's cinematography used mostly natural
light with flowing camera pairing with malik's signature voiceovers and nature imagery to create a
meditative tone the critical consensus today it has a 63 of rotten tomatoes with 191 reviews with an
average score of 6.8 out of 10 mix that release but it has grown over the years in esteem generally
favorable metacritic at 73 later rankings solidified its status number four on timeout new york's 2000 list
number one for mick's la sel for the san francisco chronicle and number nine for kahir's dual cinema in
the 2000s and number 39 in bbc's 26 and pulled the greatest film since 2000 and so roger ebert give it
four stars i think he did yeah yeah yeah some of the key strengths uh by these reviews was koryanka kilter's
breakout performance of course uh the themes of love nature versus civilization america's mythic origins
even uh james horner score got to note those it was heavily altered by malik incorporating uh wagner
and mozart however craig it was a box office disappointment initially but it has endured as a cult a classic
favorite over the years it's always amazing when a film like this gets made right because at some point
somebody said man we're gonna make a lot of money i don't think anyone should say that with a malik film
well no and that's the thing and that's what i love about it and i think that's part of what makes
certain filmmakers so impressive is because their their talent alone sells people on things that might not
ultimately be incredibly profitable but at the end of the day it's people that really really care about
art which is it's great to see and it's great to hear and you know it's great to know that there's
still people out there that are fine making a dollar as opposed to a thousand dollars prop i mean i'm
talking about yeah of course of course the way this film the looks the trees the grass the forest the
fort that they build it's crazy how you see this fort that's literally being built with
trees and the yeah the natives are looking at the fort being built like well you can do this with wood it
it was actually kind of cool to see them watch the whitey building this fort and they're like kind of
like this is how you can put buildings together it's kind of cool to see them looking at this new world
stuff being brought to their world but then as the movie progresses we kind of see this town grow it we
actually see it grow and progress the homes inside become a little bit more home-like so when pocahontas
lives there for a little bit she gets out her own little room that's not too shabby so it is fascinating
to watch their own growth as a little town grow did you get that feeling of watching the town grow as the
moving oh yeah absolutely and especially when smith comes back they've kind of run down a little bit
you know supplies are low yeah that was stressful man they portrayed starvation and disease and i don't
know why i get stressed out i know it's acting but when i see people acting being cold i always stress i
because i hate being cold i hate it more than almost anything and so watching these actors portraying
people being cold i'm i'm empathizing and sympathizing with real people at this time i sometimes don't know
how we survive as humans i don't know how we did it the fact that we could survive these harsh winters
with no food and no shelter really it's a testament to our forefathers that they were able to suffer this
stuff great yeah and now we get to watch vapid people on tick tock doing tide pod challenges we've
definitely evolved into a better race of of humans haven't we i know it's ridiculous we suck okay
uh let's go to the actors ben chaplin who had a way bigger role in the thin red line had a very small
blinky miss him role in this one i don't know if you remember his role in the thin red line if you saw it
recently or not but he played the husband who lost his wife uh the to uh the another air force captain he got
a dear john letter while he was in the military that was his character so anyways he was in this he
returned to the to the you know seven years later he's with terence malcolm again so i guess he enjoyed
that experience on the thin red line he had a very small supporting role playing robinson that one of
the early jamestown settlers in the new world and he appears briefly early on during the expedition scenes
including when john smith heads up river and that was it i saw him in the canoe paddling i'm like oh there's
been chaplin because i haven't seen this movie in a while i just watched thin red line because i'm
doing now the movies in order for this pocket yeah and uh it's like oh i never saw him again so it's
another one of these things he probably had a lot more filmed on him he goes to see this in the theaters
and classic terence malcolm style like oh i guess i'm not in the film yeah well yeah and i'm sure you
talked about it on your thin red line episode about adrian brody yeah oh yeah we talked about it that's
going to come up in an interview that i have for you john savage was in this film if you blink and miss him
again now again if you remember the thin red line there was a character john's uh who john savage
played a soldier who kind of goes crazy he's like talking really kooky and kind of goes like batty i
don't know if you remember that guy in thin red line john savage do you remember him from deer hunter
been a long time since i've seen either of those movies okay well he actually plays a real character
whose name is thomas savage yeah and he doesn't have a very big role in this film either he appears
briefly in the early settlement scenes including moments of hardship and conflict and then one
notable sequence during the starving winter his character is shown descending into madness and
delirium ranting incoherently amid the chaos so it's just funny that in this movie terence is like hey
remember when you played that crazy batty guy in thin red line can you do that character again
in a new world it's just so weird that i don't know if john savage is maybe this way in real life i'm not
sure yeah uh that's funny and we never see his character on or off screen die but it's been
speculated that he did die in a skirmish off screen okay uh now we're getting a little bit of a bigger
actors do you recognize the name maybe by face david thulas oh yeah of course okay what do you know
he's the guy with the cleft asshole in uh the big lebowski um and uh he was also in the uh what the island
of dr moreau the marlon brando version of the island of dr moreau to all you kids listening to our
podcast you probably remember him from the harry potter films he's one of the professors i can figure
out which character but that's where i got introduced to him anyways i know uh so anyways yeah he's great
actor he plays edward maria wingfield he was the first president of the jamestown council in 1607
he however was disposed amid accusations of mismanagement during the colony starving time and
later sent back to england in real life but he was killed in the film that's more fun to watch yeah
so he plays uh an arrogant antagonist a figure kind of he kind of rides john smith in the film a little
bit you know like one of those classes like pretty much a what do you call it classic uh projecting his
own insecurities on john well yeah well he wants him executed right because the movie starts with
smith as a prisoner apparently he did some mutiny talk or something on the yeah and they get there and
uh he he's all ready to to hang him and then uh christopher plumber's like uh he he learned his
lesson he's too handsome to kill in this film you can't kill colin farrell he's too handsome he's got
to meet pocahontas he was great his little role there and uh his death was swift okay next we have the
classic hey hey you got a native role we can do call west studie yeah didn't he die recently no did he die
oh i'm thinking of somebody else graham green diversley yes thankfully west is still with us
78 years old bless west yeah west studie great actor he was great of course in the film the heat that we
covered on the michael mann season now we've got him again on terence malick and he was also of course
and michael mann twice on the heat and uh last of the he comes of course uh he plays i guess what he plays
a native in this movie as well i can't say this name so opchen knock on off i know i can't say the names
another real life character he was a key powhatan leader so he's not really much in this film he's
kind of near the end of course when he goes with pocahontas to england he's in those manicured gardens
great little talk that he has with pocahontas there underused of course we love west study or study is
a studio study i'm not sure i think it's studie great actor like most malic films he sort of picks an
actor or actress that he's going to do a lot of which of course in this movie is colin and
koryanka so uh his his stuff was cut out he wasn't too thrilled about that he's another one that wasn't
too thrilled he felt the story shifted too heavily toward the romantic love triangle and he felt that
the native perspectives were sidelined because of that that was one of his criticisms that he had from
out but people don't like taking paychecks i guess you know i mean like it's not your movie it's not
west studie's the new world you know i mean i don't know why these actors say this it's kind
of weird but uh study west study went on to say that working with malik was unpredictable the study
indicated it was a one-time collaboration he wouldn't repeat it due to the extensive trimming
that his character received so he was not happy with what was left on the cutting room floor so he
is another one that said nope never again with malik it's funny though you don't get paid by uh the
amount of minutes you're on screen i don't paid the same either way either way you get paid your you know
whatever your day rate is right whatever the sag minimum is or it's just funny to me that oh no i
agree with you i'm listening i agree with you totally he did note though craig however he had a personal
connection filming near actual historical sites of virginia felt meaningful to wes and his character
nearly the one he played nearly succeeded himself like the character he played in destroying the jamestown
in real history so he kind of felt it was neat to portray that character as uh i guess he felt a kinship
with his character but then yeah his character was i was supposed to say his character was skelp what
do we got here now we're getting to some of the real nitty-gritty christopher plumber yeah now when we
covered the insider by michael mann christopher plumber course was in that film playing mike wallace
christopher plumber again is playing another real life character the captain christopher newport he was the
privateer who commanded the 1607 virginia company voyage and made several resupply trips in real life
do you think plumber had a good time on the film yes or no i'm gonna guess no because you probably got
a quote saying how unhappy he was with how much screen time he got all right here's a round table
it's called the newsweek oscar round table it's filmed in 2012 i'm not sure who the interviewer is
but you'll see at the table some notable actors with christopher plumber george cloney being one of them i
think cape blanche might be there too i'm not sure i can't remember off the top of my head we'll see it very
quickly here uh it's a few minute clip but i think it's worth just watching christopher you work with
terry malik once didn't you yes on the new land yeah what kind of experience was that curious
well i i mean he's he's quite an extraordinary guy and i loved some of his movies very much
and uh but the problem with terry which i soon found out is that he needs a writer desperately
because he insists on doing everything as we all know and he insists on writing and overwriting and
overwriting until it sounds terribly pretentious and you have to work terribly hard to make it sound real
and then he edits his films in such a way that he cuts everybody out of them you know the story yes
maybe brody didn't even know going to the premiere he was not missing himself on the he was the lead in
the movie yeah okay so we're going to pause it here so christopher's already saying that he feels terrence
needs uh a writer somebody to keep terrence i'm not defending terrence i'm just explaining maybe for
our dearly departed christopher plumber that that's not terrence though he doesn't write christopher's
asking terrence to do isn't what he does as a filmmaker he lets we're going to see an interview
later with colin he kind of lets whatever's in front of his camera tell the story and that's kind
of how he is he just he does have a script but he'll tell uh he told kori akana one time korianka he said
just like just dance or just feel the air and breathe and just say the first line of the script and act
out the rest of your dialogue don't say it so that's just the way he is it's sort of love it or hate it
that's his art christopher didn't like it at all i guess he just wants to solve scripts and he was
also i don't think he says it he might say in this interview but i read in another interview he was
pissed off they had this big grandiose speech that you probably thought was oscar worthy it was totally
cut out he performs it and he goes to the theater too and this big speech at the end in england was gone
yeah so he wasn't now it's interesting because in this round table you see the actor there on there's
charlie's there on of course you see michael fassbender and michael is in a later film with
terrence the 2017 film song to song so this was filmed in 2012 so he probably wrote note to self work with
terrence yeah that's crazy so michael's at this round table i think it's great that michael's at this
round table right but he's kind of like yeah whatever because he works with terrence later
now this part kind of bugs me i have no real bone to pick with george i think he i could say things but
what kind of bugs me here he did have a cameo and he to his own admission will be covered when we
covered the thin red line we mentioned this george cluney flew in for one day shoot from the er set to
do his little cameo at the end of the thin red line and flew back he did it because he really wanted to be in it
so he's only there for one day and he kind of throws terrence out under the bus here saying
something like i was there for a short period of time and i'm glad i was only there a short period of
time it was kind of a dig at terrence i don't know if he's trying to ingratiate himself with
christopher plumber at the table here but i was actually disappointed in george being like oh like
anti-terrence too because he's also saying like oh yeah adrian brody got cut out of the film like i
know that's a big hollywood story to this day adrian brody's done just fine hasn't he won one or two oscars
or something like that like i think he's doing he's doing fine you know and that was an early
adrian role anyways you're lucky to be in the film well if anything i'm sure at the time it was
embarrassing because you tell people well yes but that now it's a story you can tell that's what i mean
yeah he's done fine but i can imagine you know that that really makes you look like a dick if nothing
else like where you tell people oh didn't you know thin red line i'm the star of that movie and then they
call him up and they're like dude i saw that movie you get it's all reaction shots wtf
we said that my sons and i my younger sons watched the film with me they loved it and but every time
they saw adrian brody my 11 year old my 11 year old goes look it's the guy that's afraid all the time
that's all he was even my 11 year old doesn't know who adrian brody is he just says it's scaredy
cat mcgee over there like yeah that's adrian brody in the whole film he's got these eyes like this great
it's actually kind of funny now i'm gonna go back just a little bit i know the volume's a little bit
quiet i'll pump it up and post listen to george he kind of throws it maybe i'm misremembering
never here but he kind of goes team christopher he was not saying himself on he was the lead in the
movie yeah i was in that film he was i was cut out too i was happy because i was cut out too i was
happy what does that mean what does that mean i was cut out too i was happy is he not happy with that
film i don't know main character syndrome what a weird yeah george you had a one-day shoot you actually
had more lines and adrian and he was there for like 10 months yeah yeah you were there for 10 hours and you
had five times to speak in parts of adrian oh that's funny mickey roerke was in it too wasn't he was
the lead he was the lead in the movie no and went to the premiere and they didn't tell him i think he
found out maybe at the junket when they said and what part are you but he was a cover of vanity fair
and all that stuff but yeah oh my god and he was in it but just like he had no lines yeah he completely
reshaped the movie around jim caviezel and sort of shaped the movie around that but he gets um yeah
it was a smart choice no offense adrian brody but jim caviezel was amazing in that movie i loved his
character in that movie so much so yeah it was cool seeing that this was around the time that i guess
cluny had done the descendants which is such a such a cool movie i love the descendants george will fall
under the actors who've directed season oh okay so the actors who aren't known to be directors but have
directed i.e ben affleck george clooney that sort of thing yeah angelina jolie there's been some actors
who've directed that we're gonna we're gonna do it's gonna be a big season but we're gonna do actors who've
directed season yeah oh nice he gets terribly involved in in sort of poetic shots and if he comes on to
a bit which are gorgeous yeah but they're paintings all of them and they're right but he gets lost in that
and the stories get refused particularly in our in our film um the first half hour of that film is sheer magic yeah
the first half hour of that film is sheer magic do you want to guess why yeah because those are the
first those are 30 minutes that he's in yes i'm sorry mr plumber but it's not the no one's going to
the new world to watch christopher plumber criticism is valid all criticism is valid but this seems like
unnecessary criticism because it seems like if you sign up for the terence malik experience
you should know what you're getting like i mean you you might not understand how he how he works but the
end product is what matters there you know like i i don't know that would be like tom cruise complaining
about the you know two and a half years he spent shooting you know eyes wide shut with stanley kubrick
you know like never did and he never you know he knew what he signed up for like he understood the assignment
and he bought the ticket and took the ride it seems like we we pump cruise up a lot on this
on this uh i don't know i had nothing bad to say about tom cruise i don't yeah it's just another
example i'm with you brother who would want to see that version of the new world it already exists you
can go watch disney's polka yeah polka yeah christopher will will declare if he's going to work
with terence ever again yeah the arrival and on the james river of the ships coming over right and it
doesn't look like 20th century photography it looks like 16th century so there you go there's a credit
there to terence he's like we said it doesn't look like 20th century film it looks like you're watching a
historical film so there's a good credit he mentions that it looks real it looks really good and he's
right painting but then the story starts to start again and of course i i would put in all sorts of
different spots my character was suddenly not in the scene that i thought i was in yeah in the editing
room it's very strange it is completely unbalances everything and my character wasn't in as much as i
would like it to be so now the story sucks like you know i'm serious this is what he's saying yeah
very emotional scene that i had um suddenly was background noise i could hear myself sing saying it
this long wonderful moving speech that i thought i was so fantastic in oh my gosh i did this great speech
at the end i thought for sure it would win me a best supporting actor nomination
i hear this is now background sort of score way miles in the distance while something else is
going on oh my god and colin farrell just said oh you know we're just going to be a couple of
fucking ospreys we're not going to shoot the fucking ospreys don't we're not going to shoot us
so he's just saying colin said it's hard to hear he says colin farrell said there would just be a couple
birds to be a couple birds in the shot set of us but colin says it out of love for yeah no it seems like he
understood yeah the assignment yeah yeah this isn't about us as actors and that's the thing when you
do a terence milk film you're not there to showcase it for your acting reel i don't think that's what
you're there for no you're there to be part of a beautiful piece of art how many people are able to
say that you'll get to do your sound of music and your other like you'll get those this is just a chance
to do something different like to me that's how i would look at it yeah just to do a terence
malcolm i'm gonna do something different whatever you know i had to write him a letter i wrote terry
a letter oh you did so he wrote terence malcolm a letter and he was pissed off i can't remember what
he says but i've seen other sources where he he basically gives poor terence malcolm a piece of his
mind about his experience being on this film here we go yeah i gave him a yeah i'll never work with
him again of course i mean he won't have me no he didn't oh i told him i said he said you're so boring
you're gonna ruts i said you've got to get yourself a writer baby so my career with mr malcolm is over
you know it'd be great if he did if he had got that back returned to sender unopened yeah
or terence malcolm should have sent him back a letter with a bunch of pictures of nature yeah i'm
gonna show you another video clip here in just a second but this one's gonna be interesting because
this was a video footage done during production of the film so this is the on-set the documentary
featurette about how great it is yeah the greatest experience of my acting life as a director terence
malick is unique with masterful originality he's taken the story of a young woman pocahontas and the two
men that she's torn between and has created on film a sweeping adventure of discovery of loss and of love
the love of a woman that gave birth to a nation so there you go that's my praise from mr plumber hey
yeah terence malick is a visual genius what a great that was written by the marketing team goodness if i had
more time and if i was a better podcaster i'd piece together all the different actors talking about
terence but and showing how how hypocritical they are well not just that but just just as we talk
because right now we're talking about christopher plumber we'll just play this one through a little
bit in comment as we go you're a curious man smith what is it that you're looking for i've always
believed that something good was in store for me destiny all my own
now that was a great sequence there when uh john smith was captured by i love how they refer to
them as the naturals is that what they called them the naturals yes i believe so yeah yeah i kind of
like that i don't know if that's derogatory it's hard to say this is what the 1600s is what they called
them they definitely weren't calling them natives no but i like the term natural it's sort of like they
were with nature they were part of nature they were just naturally a part of it of course we see the
scene where pocahontas saves that cold starving community with meat and their furs and they
survive winter's just fine whitey comes along and they suffered and i also like how they were showing
that this was their home yes there of course there was the talk and discussion how they're not going to
give this land up very easily and there's that kind of discussion and i suspect there was that kind
of discussion back then even we recognize they're not going to leave their nature or their their natural
appetite easily the relationship between smith and pocahontas was one of mutual fascination
one of two kind of two creatures that meet each other that have never met anything like the other
person and that's portrayed i think very gently and very beautifully in the film
let's talk about uh collins portrayal of john smith in the film what did you what did you think of it
i've never been one of those super critical you know i've never been one of the the colin farrell haters
if you will you know what i mean would you say he's a hate group so to speak i think so i especially i
think when he was probably at the height of his popularity i think a lot of people didn't give him the
credit he probably deserved as an actor i mean you watch something as sloppy as daredevil
bullseye is the most interesting thing in that movie yeah uh fair enough you know even his season
of true detective which you know is considered a failure of a season of tv but why okay can i say
why can i ask because it wasn't the first season i don't why did people do that i don't understand have
you enjoyed peanut butter and jelly sandwich yeah that doesn't mean a turkey dinner is not better i don't
know why people can't separate the two why can't you enjoy both why do you have to compare the jelly
sandwich to a turkey christmas dinner it's a different experience but you can still enjoy it
it's a anyways i well you know i mean we're both we've both i think gone on record saying how much we
respect when filmmakers don't do the obvious if you're gonna make a sequel to something why not have it be
something new and exciting as opposed to a rehash elaborating you know you talked about colin on uh
the miami vice episode i'm a big miami vice fan i'm a big sunny crockett fan a big sunny brunette fan
big don johnson fan if you will but i thought his portrayal in miami vice was great i mean miami vice
the movie really succeeded i think it really sort of opening and exposing what it takes to work as an
undercover officer his portrayal was great i've never had a problem with him as an act and i think
it also boils down to like people get really caught up in tabloid headlines yeah same thing happened with
russell crowe you know and russell crowe by all accounts is you know a proper asshole what happened
with colin farrell is very similar as you know a couple of headlines yes are in the tabloids about you
you know him doing whatever and and all of a sudden people are judging him as an actor for that
well he did have a drug and alcohol problem when you have that things are going to happen in your life
but he's been sober since 2006 so give the guy a break and i don't think i've heard of anything since
then and he actually went into rehab in 2018 just as a preemptive measure to order to maintain sobriety
so even when he thought something might happen checked himself he was like hey yeah i need help
this guy's taking care of himself and he says he's done this in large part to for his elder son james
yeah who's got a disability yeah right that's right that's right so yeah i like him he's human he
hasn't done anything criminal that i think that should be no he's a good-looking guy and you you don't fault
him for it you know certain actors you know and i've talked about it on this show before you know
you get the abercrombie and fitch looking models and stuff that just don't sell a performance we're here
he's a a good-looking attractive handsome man but you don't hold that against him and that's really really
hard to do as an actor you know a lot of normal average looking people watch a you know super attractive
people on screen and your main thing at first is to want to cut them down a little bit to make you feel better about yourself
do you know how you got the job this is kind of an interesting little it ties into terence malik's
earlier film so he as you know directed sydney spacek in uh badlands that was his first film
colin was doing a 2004 film with sydney uh with space or with spaceic
basic sorry i think it was in burgess was the 2004 film in bruges yeah in bruges thank you yeah and she
goes hey i have a friend who's doing a film and you might want to read for it
and he's like well who um a guy named terence malik and he's like hey
that's funny yeah so colin got referred to by sissy because sissy has remained friends with terence since that first film did you know
but we mentioned in the balance recording that sissy met her still husband he was a film editor or cinematographer or something like that
wasn't he a production designer yeah something yeah something like that and they've been together since that badlands film yeah when was badlands 76 okay well because here's the thing that's pretty cool though right yeah there's a diploma connection too because she was in carry obviously right and it's been what probably two years since i recorded my carry episode but i believe her husband is the reason that she is in carry because oh
he suggested she read for the role she you know she was like hey i'm working on this diploma picture
i think you should read for it so it's just funny to see how you know when when it is cool
well and it also shows that who you know sometimes it really helps and when the universe gives you uh an opportunity
you know realize the universe is like hey this might be worth doing yeah it was 2004s maybe i think it might have been at the home of the end of the world sorry okay yeah because i want to say in bruges i don't remember sissy space second that's right my apologies before people ask in the comments a home at the end of the world okay that was one with sissy and but call it a quieter boy he had a run didn't he
Well, Bainari Report was probably one of his...
That was a big one.
I look at his filmography.
This guy has been working.
Of course, he reinvented himself as the Penguin.
Oh, yeah.
And that was a highly rated TV show.
And movie, yeah.
And movie and highly rated TV show as well.
Yeah, I've always enjoyed him.
I've always enjoyed him.
Never had a problem with him.
And I actually became a big fan of his
from his first big film, Tigerland,
directed by Joel Schumacher,
who's another director I might want to tackle
on this director's network
just to get those Batman films done.
Oh, goodness.
Well, then you get to talk about 8mm.
Oh, I know.
It's almost fire.
Yeah, I know.
What a weird filmography, man.
That's what I mean.
The Lost Boys.
But that would be a fun film guy, I think.
I think he's done some interesting stuff.
Oh, he did that movie with De Niro
and Philip Seymour Hoffman
where De Niro's character has a stroke.
Oh, right.
What is it called?
Flawless?
Yes, I think so.
I think so.
I think he got it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I've seen that.
I've seen it, actually.
Yeah.
But I've seen it.
Just the one time.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, I miss him so much.
Speaking of drugs,
that's what got him, unfortunately.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, yeah, I thought John Smith,
played by Colin, was great in this.
And what I liked about this
is that his love affair or his love with Pocahontas
felt very natural.
And then he got the job offer, right,
to go somewhere else to find the passage to the Ines.
Yeah.
I kind of don't blame him.
It wasn't like he was a...
But he took it.
He picked that.
He picked the career,
sort of the spotlight career over Pocahontas.
And spoiler alert,
when Pocahontas has to decide at the end of the film,
does she go back to John Smith
or stay with her now marriage to John Rolfe?
I actually forgot.
I said, who did she go with again?
I can't remember.
I'm a sucker for sappy happy endings.
What do you want me to say?
Yeah.
I liked that both were good men.
Like, neither one...
What I liked is neither one of them was bad
or abusive or mistreated.
Like, you know,
two different men loved her differently.
But one was a little bit more selfish,
just a tad more...
Not...
Just wanted to have more adventure in his life.
He would have gone back to her.
But I like how, again,
at the end of the film,
spoiler, Pocahontas says to John Rolfe,
I'm staying with you, my husband.
And I love that.
It's a really catchy moment.
Well, but not only that,
Smith also left instructions
that if she ever asked about him,
let her know that he died.
Yeah, it's pretty harsh.
That's pretty harsh.
Well, I do find this interview with Colin
that you played interesting, though,
because he kind of downplays
the romantic angle of it a bit,
which I kind of like,
because, you know,
not to sour this podcast at all,
but like, you know,
in reality,
when John Smith and Pocahontas interacted,
she was 12 years old.
Well, they got a young actress.
You know how old...
She was 15.
I mean, she was 15 when the movie came out.
Yeah, she was 14 during the filming.
Yeah, yeah.
And I actually watched on YouTube
some of her audition tape for this.
She's made for this role.
And what I do like is
they...
Terrence, to his credit,
didn't make any of it feel creepy.
There were adult actors with her.
I think there was one shared
gentle kiss at the end.
Yeah.
Yeah, by John Rolfe and her.
So Christian Bale kissed her.
I don't think we even saw Colin kiss her.
Yeah.
At any real point.
It might be.
There might be a very brief...
Yeah, but it wasn't...
I mean, Pocahontas died when she was 21.
So, I mean, she was...
Yeah.
She was never, you know...
She was barely an adult when she died.
No, yeah.
I'm not condoning or excusing.
I'm just saying that
they handled it as well as you could
with a minor, essentially, in this film.
I mean, she's a minor at the end of the day
playing with adults.
And I didn't get any...
From my research, nothing was scandalous.
Nothing was...
Everything seemed to be above board.
I didn't catch any...
Any, what do you call it,
criticisms even of her real-life age.
Did you catch anything?
No.
And I imagine that, you know, much like...
I mean, look at how much animals
are protected on the sets of movies.
Right.
At least on set.
I'm not talking about what goes on behind set,
which is...
We could get Seiko on here to talk about...
Oh, boy.
You know...
But I mean, on set,
they take that shit very seriously.
You know, minors are supposed...
Are only allowed to work
a certain amount of hours.
You know, they have a chaperone.
So, I mean,
probably the safest place for her to be
was, you know, on set in front of the camera.
So that doesn't shock me
that there's no wild stories
that have come out
or anything like that.
What is beyond the world?
Her absolute freedom of spirit
was something that just educated
John Rolfe no end.
And that first of all came with
allowing himself to be bold enough
to step up in front of the whole town
and say to Pocahontas,
you know, may I take a walk with you?
So what did you think of Christian Bale's
performance of John Rolfe?
Well, first of all,
it's always funny hearing Christian Bale
use his real voice in interviews.
He got to use it in this film too
because he's from that part of the world.
Did he alter it a little bit for this movie?
Yeah, it wasn't as strong.
A little bit more...
Yeah.
It was a little bit more Americana,
so to speak, but...
Yeah.
Yeah.
Go ahead.
He's fine.
I mean, Christian Bale is...
He's an intense actor.
And the thing is,
he didn't really have a lot to do in this movie.
He shows up really, really late in the film.
Two-thirds of the way through.
I think there was 50 minutes left in the film.
He's a great actor.
You know, I mean,
the guy's done legitimate,
legitimate physical transformations for his art.
He's good.
I mean, it's a good performance.
His is some of the better voiceover in the film.
And I don't know how much of that was...
how voiceover heavy the movie was in Malick's original cut.
In the extended cut, I think, in general,
I think the voiceover is just right.
And Bale has some of the better voiceover stuff.
Especially when it relates to, you know,
when he talks about his wife dying,
when he talks about Pocahontas dying,
and her perspective on death from a natural point of view.
Right.
You know, where she's like,
Hey, you know...
Almost I.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
So, yeah.
I thought he was great.
He's one of my favorite actors of all time.
So, I love this movie for two reasons.
One, I love Colin Farrell.
I love Christian Bale.
And I love how you can even tell Christian,
he's like,
Dude, I'm just here for the ride.
He didn't even do like a Christian Bale.
It was a very subdued genre.
He just played a nice guy.
Nice guy who fell in love with a young natural
and had a kid with her.
And he even said,
he told Christopher Plummer's character,
Look, if she's in love with another guy,
I don't want her to be miserable with me.
That's not the point.
She's not a prisoner in this marriage.
I got to respect that.
She thought he was dead.
Yeah, she's already been exposed to Europe,
so she's going to die anyway
from all the disease we have
that she's not prepared for.
And to be fair,
Christian Bale wasn't really the Christian Bale
that we know today when this film came out.
Batman was released.
Batman Begins was released the same year.
But as you know,
this Terrence Malick film was filmed
probably before Batman Begins was filmed.
Yeah, but...
Terrence takes forever to edit.
But he was in stuff,
but he wasn't...
Yeah, he was in Reign of Fire,
Equilibrium.
Well, come on, American Psycho?
Yes, I know,
but that was a cult classic.
That wasn't like some blockbuster,
everyone knew Patrick Bateman.
Yeah, what about Shaft?
I knew him for the first time from Shaft.
We're not talking about
Craig and Ryan moviegoers.
But that was the funniest thing
when Batman came out.
I was like, wait,
it's the bad guy from Shaft.
Well, yeah, you and I knew that.
He knew that about his...
I had seen a lot of these films
I'd seen before Batman Begins.
Of course, you can say,
oh, he was in Newsies.
I know,
but An Empire of the Sun
with Steven Spielberg.
We get that,
but the point,
he hit the world stage
in a huge way
with Batman Begins.
And this was also even before
the Terminator Salvation
set Freakout as well.
Yeah.
Yeah, I love it.
I love it.
You know what?
The guy was in his shot, man.
Get out of his shot.
Okay?
Long and arduous journey
to find our Pocahontas.
And the more time we spent
with Koryanka,
the more we realized
she has an incredible depth
and an incredible maturity
that was so compelling on film.
We must live in peace
with these people.
Back down.
Terrence Malick's vision.
Okay, before we get back
to his great praise
for Terrence Malick,
they did show us
some quick scenes here
of the fighting.
That fighting was brutal.
I was getting stressed out
when the naturals
and the settlers
were fighting each other.
It was cool
how Colin Farrell's character,
of course, John Smith,
is like, man,
I got to fight with Whitey.
I have no choice.
He had to fight with his people,
but you could tell
that it upset him
because he didn't do it right away.
He joined a little bit later
when his people
were getting a little bit overcome
because I guess
he's a good fighter.
Kory Kana playing Pocahontas.
What do you think
of that casting choice?
I think it's probably
the best casting
he could have done.
I mean, I don't know
how many different people
they looked at for.
It's an important role.
So I've got some
audition tape here.
I want to show you
a little bit of Korya Kana's
talking about it.
Yeah, you'll just see
how mature she was
just in those auditions.
Going to,
be taught
and guided
by the environment
and how the environment
spoke to him
in the moment,
you were in good hands.
That's right.
suppose I asked you
to marry me.
What would you say?
Are you asking me?
Where would we live?
Here.
England, if you wish.
Perhaps that would be best.
You could forget your life
in this place.
I couldn't live in England,
Mr. Roth.
Say yes.
listen to you.
Always giving orders.
The audition process
for The New World
was actually
quite a journey in itself.
It was about
two months
of auditioning.
I really owe everything
to this casting assistant
at the time,
Joanna Brooks.
She was working
in Renee Haynes casting
and my agent
had submitted me
at the time
for a TV series
called Into the West.
And she saw my photo
on one of the piles
and it was this picture.
I'm in traditional clothing
and I have kind of
this smile on my face
and she thought
I kind of resembled
a Native American version
of Julia Roberts.
And Koryanka,
how tall are you?
I'm 5'3".
Okay.
And how old are you?
I'm 14.
All right.
14, that's crazy.
And the interview
does go on
and we won't belabor
too much,
but Koryanka just says
nothing but great things
about the audition process.
about the filming process.
She obviously had
a very good experience
and that's just comforting
to hear that you can,
there's so much garbage
we hear about,
unfortunately,
in the industry
about minors
that this was a set
of safety and comfort
and there's female producers
on the set as well
that work with her.
Yeah.
Yeah.
At least she was on Yellowstone
for a bit there
with Kevin Costner.
She was.
It's funny,
you know,
I looked at her wiki page
for the first time ever
and then I saw
that she was on Yellowstone,
which is a show
that I didn't watch
more than one episode of.
What?
Wait a minute,
are you serious?
Oh my gosh,
Kevin Costner
could do no wrong?
Are you kidding me?
He's the man,
Kevin Costner.
But then apparently
it led to like
some fraud charges,
you know,
due to insurance.
Did you see that
on her Wikipedia page?
Wait,
she had fraud?
Well,
all the charges were dropped,
but apparently she got injured
and I guess the insurance
paid out
and I guess there was a point
where she worked
when she potentially
wasn't supposed to
and the insurance company
called it insurance fraud.
All the charges
were eventually dropped,
so she was never found guilty
of anything,
but it's on her wiki page.
The thing I really like
about her performance is,
I mean,
the whole performance
is good,
but there's those scenes
with her and her brother
with no real dialogue
where they're just sort of doing,
I guess,
whatever naturals did,
you know,
to pass the time,
play acting or whatever,
you know,
where she's doing like
the deer,
deer antlers or whatever.
It also really sold the idea
of I'm here living in America
on soil that was built by,
you know,
immigrants that came here
and everything,
but I mean,
so I mean,
you can't feel,
it's tough,
you know,
I mean,
America's got a very,
very tough history.
That was the one,
one of the scenes
during the movie
where I was like,
you know,
I really felt bad.
I was like,
that experience sort of shows
the innocence of just the,
you know,
their way of life
and I think what John Smith
even says that he's,
you know,
they don't have any greed
in their heart
or, you know,
they don't,
you know,
deception isn't,
it's very all face value shit.
You're not going to have to worry
about getting stabbed in the back.
I think she really sold that,
you know,
she sold that innocence,
really probably what that experience
was like.
And then of course,
you know,
as the movie progresses,
she starts to talk more
and all that kind of stuff.
And it's a really well-balanced performance.
Some of just the physical acting
at the beginning of the movie
really is what really hit for me.
I thought she was great.
Boy,
some movies end up just being,
you've owned that movie.
That's something that no matter
what she does,
if she never acted again,
that's kind of,
she got to be Pocahontas
in the greatest live action production
of Pocahontas that ever lived.
I don't think anyone could do
a better job than she did.
I thought she nailed it well
and she was the right age.
A side note,
do you know that Christian Bale
played Jesus?
I didn't know this in a TV movie.
I don't want to see it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Isn't this a saying?
In 1999,
November 14th,
99,
NBC
had a TV movie of the week
called Mary,
Mother of Jesus.
And Christian plays Jesus.
Wow.
Do you want to see it?
Like right now?
Like the whole thing?
Let's watch it.
I had,
well,
with a name like Christian,
I guess he's got to play that.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I did,
I did not know that.
Did any of our listeners know?
Let me know.
Okay.
Here we go with a more love talk
by Mr. Plummer.
Alex's vision of America
is a very romantic one
and he uses his camera
both romantically
and poetically.
There was a lot of,
I just love how the,
the very thing,
you can do like a little
like title card
seven years later.
It's like,
stupid nature shots.
Don't tell a story.
I love it.
The behind the scenes featurette
versus the real talk
seven years later.
Vitality to the way he shot
because the environment
that he created as well
was so realistic.
It was very interesting
and very helpful
to be filming it
in the actual places
where this all occurred,
you know,
and to be surrounded
surrounded by that history.
I beg you,
let not America go wrong
in her first hour.
That was a great line
of performance here.
Look,
I love Christopher Plummer.
I thought he was a very,
look,
I would have loved
to have more of him too.
We didn't get it,
but if there was more
of a minute,
that'd been great.
We just have to have
a longer cut film.
That's all.
I thought his scenes
were very,
very theatric,
the way he speaks.
He's got a great voice,
right?
He's got a very good voice
for film.
Yeah,
and I love that line,
you know,
don't let America F up.
We just started,
we haven't even built
this country yet.
Let's not wreck it,
the first steps that we do.
I love that line.
Yeah.
Wow,
this is a sweeping story
of a number of people
in a number of years
and a huge event
in our history.
It's a story that took place
because two people
fell in love
and changed things around them.
Okay.
Now,
the last thing
we're going to show is,
of course,
we've already talked
about Colin,
but I kind of want
to end on this
because Colin talks
about Terrence himself
and let's end
on a high note
and it gives you an idea
of what makes Terrence
Terrence.
I thought this was
a great insight
to the film
and the Terrence Malick
that Colin gives here.
It was all very freeform.
I mean,
there was,
as I say,
you know,
coming into story
would grow in him
and it would be represented,
as I said,
by the pages that would come
or the fact that he would
pick up a camera
and put it on his shoulder
if it started raining
or he'd be recording you
and me
and I'd be giving dialogue
and then he'd hear a bird
and he'd literally,
while I'm talking,
oh my God,
is that an osprey?
And he'd be standing there
and he might refute that
and Terry,
if you ever see this,
I was never insulted by it
because it was so charming
and gorgeous
and essential
in how embedded
in the moment
and open to the moment,
not just the actor's moment,
but the moment
of the whole world,
even behind
where the camera was facing,
I mean,
his level of openness
and honesty
in regard to capturing life
on the fly
was so inspiring.
So he,
yes,
he's very structured
and he's very detailed
and he's a perfectionist,
but it's a perfection
that he'll never achieve,
thank God,
because life just changes
too fast
and he's just trying
to get up
and keep up with life
and keep up with capturing
moments of honesty
as they happen.
The idea of repetition
for Terry,
I think,
is,
I don't think
it's a death,
you know.
I love that.
I love that ending.
He gets it.
I love that analogy.
I think that should be
the sort of mantra
if you're going to watch
a Terrence film.
He explained it.
I love how he's like,
yeah,
okay,
and action
and he's filming
Colin.
He's like,
hey,
cool.
So he does have
a story in mind,
but I love how he looks
at life as it's happening
through the actual camera
and he's going to film
the world around the actors
as it's happening.
Christian mentioned
that there was a time
on set where
Christian Bale compared
watching Malik's films
to listening to a favorite
piece of music
with headphones on
in the dark,
immersive and personal.
He admired Malik's
trust in actors,
valuing their input
and created a liberating
set atmosphere
with wonderful vibes.
He goes on to say
that regarding his
character's attraction
to Pocahontas,
John Rolfe,
it's the freedom of spirit,
the courageousness,
which I think Rolfe wilts
he thinks about a great deal.
He's never actually,
he never actually acted
he acted upon.
And lastly,
he says he described
Malik's candid filmmaking
style as fun.
He playfully reacted
to stay engaged.
And he also mentioned
there was a time
that he was filming
Christian.
I don't have it here
in front of me,
but I did read it somewhere
that he was filming
Christian and Chris,
he told Christian
to go a certain direction
on the whim
and film crew
had to dive out
of the way
to get out of the shot.
People that were on,
like, you know how
there's people around
all the filming?
but Terrence turns
the camera
on people
that aren't supposed
to be in the shot
and so people
are diving
into bushes and trees
to get away
from Christian Bale's
character as he's acting
because Terrence
changed his mind
about a shot.
He goes,
go this way,
go right,
or whatever it was.
Yeah.
Oh, that's hilarious.
All right.
Well, that's more or less
our coverage of the film,
A New World.
I mean, we've barely
spoiled anything in the sense
like if, you know,
we all know the story.
It's another film
I really want people to see.
It only made $49 million
at the box office,
so it didn't recoup anything.
It cost $30 million to make.
But over time,
you go to YouTube,
go to YouTube, folks,
and just punch in
the New World trailer,
New World soundtrack,
whatever it is,
and every single comment
is my favorite film,
underrated,
deserved Oscars.
So it's just one of those films
that over time
has the fan base.
It's out there.
I mean, this is a well-loved,
those who've seen it love it.
Yeah.
I had mentioned, you know,
wishing I had taken an edible
before I watched it last night,
but I mean,
if wine's your thing,
have a glass of wine
after a nice meal.
Like, this is just a great
fall into your couch
and disappear for three hours
type of movie.
Yeah.
It's rare you get theatrical,
you know,
cinematic experiences
like that.
Absolutely.
That don't overload you.
You know what I mean?
Like, it's, you know,
it's the exact opposite
of overload.
You know, it's,
it's immersive,
but not overwhelming.
Craig, thanks for so much
for coming on this season
of Terrence Malk,
coming on with Michael Mann
with me.
And speaking of Michael Mann,
it's official.
He too is happening,
by the way.
Yeah.
And you've read the book.
You, you,
yeah, I'm,
I'm halfway through the book.
I'm reading the book
at the time it's recording.
So he too is coming out.
We're going to cover it.
Like, even though it's a film
that's not in Michael Mann's
filmography this time.
And we're going to cover it
regardless because yeah,
if a new film comes out
from a director that we've
covered, of course,
we're going to send out
the invitation to you
now publicly.
I already know that he too,
just like he won.
Now it's going to be a super show.
Yeah.
So you're going to be
as long as you get Scott
into shit on it.
Everyone has to love the movie.
I'm not doing that again.
We're doing,
everyone has to like the movie
to some degree.
No, that's great.
And it's, I mean,
I'm sure reading the book,
you're trying to figure out
how he's, how he's going to
make this, this movie.
It's going to be interesting.
I know it's going to be
interesting, but he'll do it
and it'll be interesting.
It's official though.
It's official.
This could be his last film.
He's 82.
He's 82 right now, Craig.
I don't know how much,
how many years he has left
on the planet, but good for him
for being a fairly old
director at this time.
Yeah.
Terrence Malk, by the way,
Terrence Malk is actually
still working on a film
himself.
That's in, it's in Terrence
Malk editing hell right now.
I think it's about, I think
it's about God or religion
or it's a biblical story,
which I'm fascinated.
I'm not religious myself,
but I find those stories
interesting.
You know, Christian Bale
playing Jesus.
Like I find that kind of
stuff interesting.
So I don't know.
Hopefully that film comes
up before he passes on
because he's still editing
that film.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, Ryan, you know,
anytime my bat phone rings
and I pick it up and you're
on the other end asking me
to be on a podcast, you know,
my answer is always going
to be yes.
Oh, I appreciate that,
brother.
I appreciate that.
We love having you on with
your Brian De Palma coverage.
It was fantastic.
fantastic.
And you're always, you're going
to be a go-to, especially
some of these directors
coming up.
I can't, I can't have a new
person for everyone.
Terrence was a little bit
easier.
He's only got 13 or whatever
films.
So it's kind of easier to
fill it, find 12, 13 people,
but some of these other
directors have like 20 films
or whatever it might be.
So yeah, you're going to be
on again, my friend.
Don't you worry.
I look forward to it.
I look forward to it.
I look forward to it.