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For Love of Team™ is THE podcast where Leaders Simplify Teamwork, helping you: SURROUND yourself with others doing work they LOVE. Business mentor and strategist, Winston Faircloth believes that it is your love of TEAM, and not just your love of products and customers that sets you apart in the marketplace.
Because your client's experience with your product or service will never exceed the love that you have for your team, period. They are your representatives. The more we pour love into our team, the greater the client experience, the better the products will be. And so it's so against the grain of what we're taught in management school. The customer's always right, how to do what the customer wants, they're the ones that are paying the bills.
Mark Ross:Well, hey, everyone. This is not Winston Faircloth. It is Mark Ross. And this is the For Love of Team podcast. We're flipping the script today, and I'm interviewing Winston for his podcast.
Mark Ross:And this is gonna be a real treat. I'm a friend, a colleague, and admirer of Winston's. And this is the wrap up of season two and the celebration of episode number 100. So welcome, Winston, to your podcast.
Winston Faircloth:Mark, it is so good to be here, and I'm so glad you're here and doing this. This is a great honor to have you, especially because you've been part of my journey for so long, and I'm so thankful that you're here and that you're providing this awesome service.
Mark Ross:Well, it's a pleasure to be invited, and it's my pleasure for sure. So when you hear wrapping up the second season, and this is episode number 100, What stirs up inside of you?
Winston Faircloth:Well, think of 100 as a pretty significant milestone. I know in life, Willard Scott used to celebrate 100 birthdays with his call and it just shows a level of perseverance. It shows a level of stick to it ness. Oh, that's a hard word. But more than anything else, it's just, I'm so thankful for the folks who've listened, provided their feedback, provided their ideas, and it's just been, it's a great milestone and it's a wonderful way to celebrate.
Mark Ross:Wow, well congratulations. I do remember the beginning days and it's encouraging to see how it's evolved and where it is today. So you've been on a journey that's been unfolding your whole life, but especially the last seven ish years have been with quite a few changes. What if we trace this back to the beginning with the begin again notion that you had and how this began?
Winston Faircloth:Yeah, thanks Mark. You know, I would say that I think many of us as we get to different stages of life, we have these forks in the road or pivots. I've had my share of those. One of the things that really, as I thought about coming to the air with a podcast, I thought about, well, how can I share some of those stories and more importantly, give people encouragement that these forks in the road are not like life or death a lot of times? They are little pivots, they're little changes.
Winston Faircloth:The story of me seven years ago was that I felt called and led to step out of something I'd spent fifteen years building. I was working in a not for profit shared services technology company. A lot of wonderful experience doing that, built it from an idea, something I needed when I was a not for profit leader. We were really fortunate to be surrounded with some awesome people, wonderful technologists. I'm one of the least technical people you know, Mark.
Winston Faircloth:I have a hard time switching between the phone calls. If there wasn't a red and a green button, I'm not sure how I would do that with a second call coming in. But I was a great translator between people who needed technology support and gifted technology people. But I did that for fifteen years and I just was running out of juice. I was feeling not fulfilled and I just felt this nudge to begin again.
Winston Faircloth:And it represented that season, the next couple years, giving up a career. And my identity was very much tied to that. Changing cities and states, changing relationship status. So many things that I had self identified with were either I initiated a change or were stripped away from me. And it was a really tough season, but looking back now, very important season.
Winston Faircloth:Begin Again was really meant to be an encouragement to people going through a really difficult series of transitions and to say, hey, just keep one step in front of the other. Part of it too was just bringing people onto the podcast who had their own stories to share.
Mark Ross:Yeah, well, was a lot to change from corporate to this new world of what a what a great name, Begin Again. What do you think helped you through that period of transition the most?
Winston Faircloth:I think having a compelling why, having a North Star that you're moving to, rather than running from certain things, running to something that was better or you perceived to be better. I will say, I'll raise my hand as a budding entrepreneur over those seven years, is that one of the big surprises to me is how very little of my plan has really come to fruition. And that's been a real blessing to me. Like anybody else who has an idea and dream, I had a business plan. I had this big series of ideas I wanted to bring to the market.
Winston Faircloth:First thing was a total flop, crickets. It was great. It was a lot of fun to explore and to talk to people about. But what ended up happening, Mark, vocationally was that in that first business that I launched coming out of that role, it was about me. I think fundamentally the challenge was I was building the business for me instead of how I could serve others.
Winston Faircloth:That was a real contrast between that business and the business that had done so well for fifteen years. That was all about a problem of solving for others. Launching this first business coming out of this, in this seven year period was, I just need to replace my income. And that was the agenda. And I was going to be scrappy and resourceful and figure it out.
Winston Faircloth:And it really never got traction because it wasn't focused on helping others.
Mark Ross:Yeah, you know, Winston, great, great recounting of that story. And so many who were starting something new after having done something for a very long time, they've experienced success, and now they're in that place where you were for that period of newness. What would you say to those listening today to encourage them with that roller coaster of emotions and what was going on at that time? How would you encourage them today at this moment?
Winston Faircloth:I'd say that it's really important to dial up your values and dial up what's important to you and center in on that because there's a million ways you can serve people. There are a million ways that you can create a business and create products and services, but it really needs to be true to you, the unique gifting, the unique experiences that you've had. I would say if I had one big lesson from that early stage of my entrepreneurial years, it's that the answers aren't out there with a bunch of gurus and courses and things like that. Really, God's implanted that inside of you, giving you dreams and desires, giving you gifting. I think the more you go in to really mine that instead of trying to copy somebody else.
Winston Faircloth:Work in the world of art and visual arts, and the original is always so much better than the reproduction.
Mark Ross:Yeah, it's like so many of us are just trying to find our voice. And for a while we may copy or emulate someone, but eventually if it's not our voice that we hear and express, it really falls flat. So man, I've seen you grow over these years, and you moved into the begin again era of Winston Faircloth, and that somehow morphed and pivoted and shifted into for the love of team. What was going on at that time?
Winston Faircloth:Well, change happened about a year ago. Pandemic, at the beginning of the pandemic was such a trying period for folks. It was a forced pause in many, many ways. So if I look back over this entrepreneurial season of my career, I've launched crickets and eventually I got a little bit of traction, but then I went into a corporate role because I wasn't getting the traction. Thought maybe I just need to go back and get a job.
Winston Faircloth:We exited that after a change of ownership, And so I was back into the entrepreneurial game and I decided to launch the new business a few months just before the pandemic. And I was so frustrated because I thought I had learned some real lessons from that first phase. I was ready to apply it again. The pandemic comes and if you're a fledgling little business coming out of the ground and you don't have a lot of customers and don't have a lot of voice out there, it was really tough. Ended up, Mark, you may remember this season, I ended up taking a bit of sabbatical right at the beginning of the pandemic.
Winston Faircloth:We called it refinement. You were part of my life then and we were really talking about how to work through this season. I took thirty days off from everything, shut down the business, shut down the social media, shut down the consumption of courses and everything else, and just really tried to dial in. At the end of thirty days, I was like, Well, if I don't feel any better about this, I'm going to take another thirty days. So I ended up doing sixty days of just shutting down the business.
Winston Faircloth:And during that time, I started finding a contrast between that very successful IT business for fifteen years and then that next business that happened right after that. A lot of contrast, I mentioned one earlier, which was who are you really serving with your business? Business one, I was serving others, business two, was serving myself. But then I went back to business number one and I said, Why did it not continue to grow while I was there in the end? It popped into my head.
Winston Faircloth:I was on a walk one day and it popped into You've heard the term for love of the game. That's a very familiar sports term. Somehow it just came to my mind that for love of team was what I was missing as the CEO of a very successful multimillion dollar company. Here's the progression. I started that business because I had an idea of how I could help other people.
Winston Faircloth:I loved the product and the service. Then people started paying us for it. Man, that's cool. Then I moved to loving the client. I wanted to give them the ultimate experience that was just as good or better than the product itself.
Winston Faircloth:I knew that if they had a great experience with what we were offering, that that would help us win more business, keep business, and continue to grow the organization. But I kept my growth right there because I saw the team as almost like an impediment to being more creative and serving our clients. And so I often, more often than I should have, took the side of the client even though our team had really good process, had really good boundaries, had really good guardrails. They were looking for how we could protect the quality of the service, they were looking for ways to protect and scale how we could do it and I would inevitably take the side of the client. It's like, We got to figure this out.
Winston Faircloth:I put our team under tremendous pressure, and that works for maybe a short season, but if that's constantly the culture that you're creating, it created really a kind of a toxic work culture that was a reflection of me as a toxic leader. And so I see For Love of Team as almost like a bit of a redemption story, because if I can help other founders realize that you're going to absolutely love your product and service and you're going to absolutely love your clients, but you need to take it to that next level because your client's experience with your product or service will never exceed the love that you have for your team, period. They are your representatives. The more we pour love into our team, the greater the client experience, the better the products will be. It's so against the grain of what we're taught in management school.
Winston Faircloth:The customer's always right, got to do what the customer wants, they're the ones that are paying the bills. So it set me on a journey of really kind of digging into that, learning about other companies who really are team first and people first. There's surprisingly a lot more out there than you think. I wanted to give them a place where we could showcase some of their lessons. It became, For Love of Team for me is a bit of a calling, if you will, in terms of saying, At least be on par.
Winston Faircloth:If you're going to love a part of your business, at least put your team on par with your love for these other things. I know everyone's got a different personality. They're wired differently as a founder creator. So at least put them on par, but I would argue ultimately that the love of your product and the love of your clients is going to just be multiplied when you really pour into your team.
Mark Ross:Wow. As you were describing that transition, Winston, it reminded me of begin again, that theme that you had as you ushered away from what you had been doing and into this new season of life. I wondered, curious, was that like begin again for myself because I want to serve others in a new way? And through that experience, discovered, well, here's the even larger why, is so that I can help others in organizations develop a love for team and help them with specific ways to do that. And the larger why now is to serve in that way.
Mark Ross:Just curious.
Winston Faircloth:Yeah, absolutely. I feel like I found something out of my own experience. I think, Mark, you and I have talked about this a lot over the years that I think a lot of creative people, entrepreneurs really do their best work when they're coming out of their own experience. Something that they've experienced themselves, maybe a wound, maybe an opportunity that they've seen. And so for me, and one of the best interviews in this whole series has been when I brought my successor on the podcast, the person who came behind the toxic environment and culture that I created.
Winston Faircloth:And his answer was that he really pours into his people. I had had that contrast before and I knew inviting him on the podcast would be a little bit of a hard thing for me to hear, but I thought it was so important for others to hear it because that's the difference. I mean, he has a very thriving culture today because he respects his people. He honors them. He listens to them.
Winston Faircloth:Can't we all benefit as leaders from that message? I think so.
Mark Ross:Yeah. Know folks, I know folks, we've known them in the past, we know them now, who this concept and idea, ideal maybe, of for love of team, it's like we're in a big hurry. There's urgent matters. There's pressures. There's expectations.
Mark Ross:Where's this room for love of team? How does that fit in? What would you say to that?
Winston Faircloth:Well, know that people don't want to use the word love in business. Okay? Let's just be honest. It's a dog eat dog world supposedly that the business world is all about. I think undoing a toxic culture, undoing a bad hire costs you way more than building it with intention and love on the front end.
Winston Faircloth:While it may be more expedient to tell people and be very directive and an almost obnoxious boss, you've probably worked with these people who have to exert so much control and they tell you every little way they want things done. I don't know about you, Mark, but I don't necessarily like looking forward to coming in and being told to perform robotically for other people. I want to bring my gifts, my talents, my perspective, my value into an organization. So part of this is also kind of equipping the leader with some new ideas. I do think, so this is You didn't ask this, but I will say it.
Winston Faircloth:I think that our management culture is broken. It is a function of our industrial age culture that many of us grew up in where it was very robotic, very cog in the wheel type situation. I think a lot of language in business kind of reflects this mindset. When we say staff or employee versus collaborator, I think of someone as a staff person. It feels very paternalistic to me.
Winston Faircloth:It feels very, top down to me. Versus today in this environment, people who are gifted and talented want autonomy to create. So we equip them with a compelling what success looks like. And this north star of what why is, why we're pursuing that. We leave the how to them.
Winston Faircloth:That's where they can make the contribution. And if I didn't need that contribution, I wouldn't even have the position. So think that so much of our culture of management leadership, language is important and also our actions are important that back that up.
Mark Ross:That's a great description of that. Great description, Winston. Thank you. I was curious myself. How would you describe Winston Faircloth today?
Mark Ross:How are you different from who Winston was seven years ago?
Winston Faircloth:Well, I was one of those controlling obnoxious bosses. Let's start with that. I mean, the fact that I would throw my team under the bus routinely to meet a client's perceived need and not even really being all that discerning about whether this is a preference or requirement. That's one level of discernment. But then to really discern and listen to the people who are closest to the action versus thinking I have to have all the answers and if I don't, somehow I'm a weak leader.
Winston Faircloth:So that guy fortunately has been retired. The new guy is really learner. I'm a learner in this new role. I am learning that my team responds so much better when I'm very clear on that why. It's like the number one thing they want to know.
Winston Faircloth:I used to take why, that question, as a challenge to my authority, and it's not. It's really just an invitation to share your thinking about the context, because a lot of times the team members don't have the big picture. They have their piece of the elephant and they're also bringing their experiences to the table. And if you can unify the group on a very compelling way and what success looks like, that we're all clear on what is that goal line that we're pursuing, how could be super creative? By the way, people who are gifted at certain things are going to have a way better way of describing that how than I could ever come up with or dream up.
Winston Faircloth:I'd make it way too complicated. I'd make it way you know, they cut through that. So I welcome that. So I feel like I am a learner. I am observing the team that we bring on.
Winston Faircloth:I look at their gifts. I try to match that up the best I can, but then I try to stay the heck out of their way. It doesn't mean I'm abdicating responsibility because I am trying to be as clear and we will keep talking about until we're mutually clear on what those things are. That takes time, but it delivers so much better results. And I love it.
Winston Faircloth:I love being part of that group so much more because I see things that I couldn't even imagine. People are bringing their gifting and it's a lot of fun.
Mark Ross:Winston, you've used the word surrender when I'm around you. How does that fit in with everything you've said so far in this conversation?
Winston Faircloth:Well, I want to go back to So if people want to understand surrender from a business perspective, I would say that if I look back, and I think I'm a pretty reasonably smart guy, but I would say that if I look back over my beautiful, well thought, well conceived business plans, and I look back at my revenue over the last seven years, I would bet you that maybe less than 10% of my total revenue came from my beautiful business plan. Instead, the 90%, and I would say this past twelve months, it's like 99 of my revenue, has come from things where I've just said yes to being useful to other people. People see in you, especially as you show up in the marketplace, they see something in you and your business that sometimes you don't see. And it's that magic of surrendering to what others see as useful and helpful to them and being nimble enough to be And fortunately, I'm not like this massive company with all this legacy products and services. So early in stage, I think it's actually cool to be able to be nimble and be responsive in this way.
Winston Faircloth:But I bet you even larger businesses, if you look at the blockbusters of the world or the Kodak cameras of the world, these guys were asked to do something that was a little bit out of their norm. They discovered it earlier than everyone else and yet they did not pursue it it. Now they're on the dust heap of massive companies that they once were. I would say even if you are an established company, this concept of being useful to others and being responsive to that versus pursuing your brilliant business plan is a great strategy. I'm just speaking from personal experience.
Winston Faircloth:The other part of that is not being so attached to the outcomes. That's the other part of surrender to me. The more I try to hit a number in business, the further it seems to be. And yet serving out of Our friend Dan Miller talks about serving out of a full cup. That's kind of the same principle to me, surrender and being just responsive.
Winston Faircloth:So I am learning, Mark, to just get out of the way of my business. I don't even want to call it my business anymore. You'll notice on the web presence, I dropped the personal branding. It was winstonfaircloth.com. Now it's for loveofteam.com because I don't want it to be about me.
Winston Faircloth:I want it to be about the larger vision and the larger team that we're going to have supporting this vision. It's not about me.
Mark Ross:So Winston Faircloth has been living a long fruitful life. It's had some ups and downs like we all experienced seven years ago. It's a begin again moment transitioning into how do I make this work in this season? All the surrender and the inner learning and the experimentation and exploration led to for the love of team. What's next for Winston and for the love of team?
Winston Faircloth:Well, I'm super excited to continue this path of being useful. For example, we've got a new product that we think is going to be really useful in the marketplace. We call it Unlock. Basically the principle behind it is that many times your leadership teams only know their piece of the elephant. They only know their department, their division, their area of responsibility.
Winston Faircloth:When it comes to breakthrough ideas in the company, it's tough to do that because we only know our lane. Unlock works with existing leadership teams to help bridge that level of understanding, give them more context, give them more information about the overall business, but more importantly develop a shared understanding about what facts, metrics in the business mean over time. And so we actually do that without the leader in the room. We do it just with the team. And they, instead of like a typical consulting type situation, no one's going back home writing a report and putting it on the shelf.
Winston Faircloth:The team writes the report and delivers the report to the leader in forty eight hours. It's a fascinating thought experiment, but actually has practical application where the team develops new innovations in a very short period of time and more importantly, they own it. Now Mark, that sounds like a cool thing for established businesses. That was the plan. That's the plan going into the last part of 'twenty one and 'twenty two.
Winston Faircloth:What's interesting to me is that since I've been talking about this with some of my friends in the solopreneur space, they said, Well, wouldn't it be cool if I had a team that helped me look at my business that way? And so, hey, one of the things that's cooking right now is that we're figuring out a way to do that same kind of concept with solopreneurs where you're working with other solopreneurs who form your temporary team, may even become your board of directors as a result of this. What I thought was a brilliant business plan once again is now beginning to morph and change so that it can serve earlier stage businesses in a very affordable way. So who knows where this goes, but here's the core principle. I think of the love chapter in the Bible is like the ultimate leadership standard.
Winston Faircloth:If we were patient, kind, we weren't envious or boastful, not proud and dishonoring others, for example, as leaders, how would our teams respond? They would respond very, very well.
Mark Ross:This is a good place right here. Such great timing to allow you the opportunity to amplify what you just said by showing some love for your team. How do you want to love on them?
Winston Faircloth:Oh my goodness. I just want to Because people have seen on the podcast, they've just seen They've heard me, but they've not heard from my team. And so I just want to celebrate and thank three members of my team in particular who are behind the scenes and doing all the great legwork. Amanda Kelly, first and foremost. Amanda's been part of this journey for over five years.
Winston Faircloth:She has seen so many pivots and so many different ups and downs in the business, and yet she's been a constant. John Budd, who is going to make us sound great in terms of engineering this podcast, Mark, he is behind the scenes. He's a great individual, just such full heart and he has this gift for finding ways to be of service to others in technology and he does a great job of engineering the podcast and getting it ready. And then Laura Armstrong, who is our newest team member, Laura is helping amplify this message and getting it out through social media for us and helping me think about how the business can reach people that we want to serve. So all three of these folks have been integral making this pivot, making this change.
Mark Ross:Well, I've had the pleasure of getting to know two of the members, and I give extra hugs as well. And I'm sure I'd love the third, just like you, Winston. What have we not talked about that you think is important to make known at this time?
Winston Faircloth:Goodness, you asked such great questions, such deep questions, Mark, so thank you for that. I like I think it's important for folks to understand that being an entrepreneur and being a founder can be a really lonely spot. And so I think finding your tribe, finding the people who are going along the journey alongside you is so important. Mark, you're very familiar with the power of community in the work that you do. And so I think it's finding your tribe and just pouring into them with your mask off.
Winston Faircloth:Everybody is While the front stage may look beautiful, the backstage in many of our businesses needs attention and work. And so there's no The only way that we'd lose, if we go back to the begin again statement, the only way we fail is when we stop, that we stop pursuing the dream, we stop pursuing the call that we feel upon our life. Taking the next right step, Mark, your company talks about this, the next right thing. It is taking that next right action is what will bring us surprising results.
Mark Ross:Yeah, you know, yesterday I was out on a bike ride and I listened to the very first podcast on Begin Again. And you just echoed what you said then. And it's so important to remind ourselves that there's a sign that someone had hanging above their computer in their new entrepreneurial startup that said, reminder, you can always quit tomorrow. And I think it's a great reminder. The only way to lose is to quit sometimes.
Mark Ross:So Winston, what's the best way for anyone, and I'm sure it's everyone, who would want to connect with you?
Winston Faircloth:Well, come to our new website, which is called forloveofteam.com. Unveiling over time. We're going to release it as it is, and it's going to be this organic growing resource for startup entrepreneurs and leadership teams to help them really level up their love of their team. Again, we're not going to turn the world around of management, but we are going to speak to those who really are hitting that wall. They're hitting that wall of where they love their clients so much that they don't have the culture, they don't have the team that they want.
Winston Faircloth:And so we're going to really pour into those folks and hopefully be more of a preventive strategy so that those founders and leaders, as you're building out your business, consider that cultural element right out of the gate.
Mark Ross:That's awesome. I'm going to turn your podcast back over to you and invite you to end this podcast, to wrap up season two and to celebrate episode 100, however you want to conclude, Winston.
Winston Faircloth:Awesome. Thank you, Mark, again for this gift of helping me reflect over the first 100 episodes and over this season of my career. Thank you, friend, for doing this. And for everyone, I just wanted to come on here and say to thank you for being part of this podcast community for the last 100 episodes. We've had some amazing guests with some great wisdom.
Winston Faircloth:And for now, we're going to take a pause on the podcast. I think we've accomplished what we wanted to in terms of introducing this concept, both Begin Again and For Love of Team. And I'm thinking about new ways in reaching and connecting with our community. And so we're not saying goodbye, but we are going to put the podcast on pause for a bit. Thank you so much for listening.
Winston Faircloth:Thank you so much for sharing this message. You know, just always remember that your team's success, the way you love your team is a leading indicator of your success in business. And I believe by loving your team, multiply your impact, your income, your freedom in life and in business. So be blessed friends. Thanks for listening.