Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
NET Society is unraveling the latest in digital art, crypto, AI, and tech. Join us for fresh insights and bold perspectives as we tap into wild, thought-provoking conversations. By: Derek Edwards (glitch marfa / collab+currency), Chris Furlong (starholder, LAO + Flamingo DAO), and Aaaron Wright & Priyanka Desai (Tribute Labs)
00;00;16;04 - 00;00;42;29
Chris
Hey, everybody, welcome to the show we do. Aaron's not here this week. Aaron's the one who always leads in the show. That's his little special thing. And the three of us don't know how to do it, but we're going to try the best we can. Now, the good thing is, we happen to have someone on the show today who apparently just doesn't miss in this little side project and is wrapping up an amazing heck of a drop.
00;00;43;01 - 00;00;45;15
Chris
Pretty. Who are we talking about?
00;00;46;22 - 00;00;48;08
Chris
Who did you get on the show?
00;00;49;20 - 00;01;12;19
Pri
Our special guest is Derek Edwards. You know, a regular on Net Society. I would say the man with with alongside several others of glitch who just put together an amazing drop with di with most likes. Congrats, Derek, that you guys killed it. It's like, first of all, I think I mean dies work is amazing, but it feels like the drop went really well.
00;01;12;20 - 00;01;34;27
Derek
I really appreciate that guys. Yeah it was. First of all, I feel like I'm on air right now with like two prolific. I'm like the Oprah Winfrey and I don't know who the the who's who's Chris. I don't even know. Chris. Just before I answer this question, who is your spirit animal for for male broadcaster in in media history.
00;01;35;00 - 00;01;51;14
Chris
Wow. I don't know if I ever really identified to a with a broadcaster on a spiritual plane. Trier best. You know, I maybe, maybe back in the car w days and my commute. Could I, could I invoke Kyrie's doll?
00;01;51;15 - 00;01;54;10
Derek
Oh, I like about this the deep cuts.
00;01;54;12 - 00;01;56;02
Chris
Maybe a little Nick parkour.
00;01;56;04 - 00;01;57;20
Pri
And I like these people are.
00;01;57;23 - 00;02;01;26
Chris
Well, that's because you're not versed in the the.
00;02;02;00 - 00;02;07;20
Derek
In sitting in 405 traffic. You're not versed in the LA traffic scene where this is the only way to pass the time.
00;02;07;27 - 00;02;28;24
Chris
Yes, this is another place in another time. Pre. There was once a time where cars didn't have internet and people went into the offices office every single day to work. Chris and what they did between going from their, their residence, their house or apartment or whatever to, you know, their, their office to, to do a little work. They listen to this thing called radio.
00;02;28;25 - 00;02;33;14
Derek
A lot of croc. Chris does what I'm talking. Oh my.
00;02;33;17 - 00;02;37;06
Chris
Dude croc tower power one six.
00;02;37;06 - 00;02;41;07
Derek
We're we're big boy lives. Chris knows. Yeah. Oh, man.
00;02;41;08 - 00;02;50;08
Pri
Who's the who's the weird looking guy who, like, was on XM radio and like, he's kind of like OG podcaster. And he had a movie to.
00;02;50;13 - 00;02;51;27
Chris
Are you talking about Howard Stern?
00;02;52;01 - 00;02;54;03
Pri
Yes. Howard Stern, his name.
00;02;54;04 - 00;03;02;05
Chris
Have you ever heard anyone describe Howard Stern? Is that Weird Al Yankovic looking guy? I mean, it's apropos, but.
00;03;02;07 - 00;03;14;04
Chris
This is this is like talking about George Washington and being like, you ever heard of that local printer? Surveyor did a little bit of militia work. What was his name?
00;03;14;07 - 00;03;15;25
Chris
Old Gemini of Penny force.
00;03;15;26 - 00;03;28;16
Derek
I'm gonna do another reference, I think. Chris, it's funny, you actually give me like, Larry King vibes. Like you're very direct. Yeah, you're very direct. You're.
00;03;28;18 - 00;03;47;20
Derek
You're you're very direct. You know the source material incredibly well, but you let the guests do the talking. You're, you know, I there's there's something like, I don't want to say curmudgeonly about the approach, but like the I don't know, there's something about Larry King that ever.
00;03;47;23 - 00;03;50;14
Chris
I've never worn a pair of suspenders in my life.
00;03;50;15 - 00;03;51;00
Derek
That might have.
00;03;51;00 - 00;03;51;25
Derek
To change.
00;03;52;02 - 00;03;53;08
Chris
Yeah.
00;03;53;11 - 00;03;54;19
Pri
Let's give you a Larry King.
00;03;54;19 - 00;04;00;17
Chris
Blow up. I just like my hair back. Pat Riley style glasses.
00;04;00;18 - 00;04;24;13
Derek
Oh, man. I like what I'm seeing in my head right now. It's pretty. Pretty hilarious. Well, well, just to, like, bring it back to the present day. I appreciate you guys asking about the stuff. Really. You know, at glitch, we have, like, kind of this really fun opportunity to kind of just pick and choose our spots and find projects that are, yeah, really like aligned with our ethos around how crypto art and crypto art should be story told and brought to market.
00;04;24;13 - 00;04;56;14
Derek
And those artists that are that want to kind of push in interesting and new directions that are maybe not fully represented by a larger machine for for how art is produced and sold. And yeah, I feel very blessed that like, artists are actually, like, willing to trust that process with glitch. It's like every one of our every everything that we do is always like a custom tailored, narrowly scoped job from like the very from like the very beginning it there's no like engine that you're slotting into.
00;04;56;15 - 00;05;24;09
Derek
It's like how what is the work? How are we approaching this work uniquely? How can we help other people see what you're trying to do and say and share with the world around the work? Yeah, I think, you know, it's also partly why, like the no. Two exhibition has ever looked the same, like the Joe piece, work didn't really look the same as the early residency work with, you know, Nameless Dread, which didn't look at all like what we did with Snow Throw and Lift, which looked very different than what we did here.
00;05;24;09 - 00;05;48;13
Derek
And, and then our stuff always feels very different. So I yeah, I fully appreciate that. We have both the ability to do that. We're not venture backed. We're not there's no funding source or fiercely kind of like independent and independently owned. And and with that comes a lot of creative control. And I think I feel pretty blessed that, like, artists are willing to kind of like run that process with us.
00;05;48;13 - 00;06;06;28
Derek
And and then that's not even to say anything about how killer the work is. Like, I think just die really. He's a he's a really. Objectively good. It's just an incredible, incredible work from die. I think it was just like a total home run on, on the collection that he created, on the subject matter, on the evolution of him as an artist.
00;06;06;29 - 00;06;29;00
Derek
Like, I think you can't view this work without viewing in context his previous work and having them sit next to one another and see that evolution. And it's just, yeah, he's just a he is one of my favorite artists. And it's just like, I'm really excited that people get to people are seeing the same thing that I think a few of us have seen for a long time, and I'm really excited to see what he does from here on out as well.
00;06;29;07 - 00;07;01;08
Chris
So, Derek, I want to take this in a bunch of different directions. But before we get into Di. Do you have a calendar glitch? I mean, obviously you've got Marfa every year, but I feel like you consistently will do 1 or 2 of these sort of drops outside of that per year. And I want to know, is the approach more artist driven and opportunity driven for I mean, you know, you're a gallery like every other place in the world.
00;07;01;08 - 00;07;18;06
Chris
You do have costs. You do have to keep the lights on. Are you looking consciously and saying, hey, you know, just to keep this whole thing going, we got to do a couple of releases a year because you don't you're not as prolific as other galleries, but when you do step to the plate like you don't miss.
00;07;18;09 - 00;07;31;19
Pri
Yeah, I was going to ask the same exact thing. I'm curious if there's like a actual structured cadence or it's more like vibes, like you, you know, feeling affinity to an artist in their work and they come to you or you go to them like, yeah, I was wondering the same, actually.
00;07;31;20 - 00;07;35;24
Derek
Yeah. Okay. Is it really you guys want to see how the sausage is made? A little bit.
00;07;35;26 - 00;07;39;01
Chris
We're operators. Derek, we're into the wall of the machine.
00;07;39;02 - 00;08;15;04
Derek
These are the questions you don't get on other podcasts. So I'm I'm these are really these are the most important questions actually. So I what I just to put into context before I answer this what I do for a living and you guys know this, but just for the benefit of the audience is I take capital and I invest it into companies at the earliest stages, and that job allows them to kind of like hit milestones and sequence product builds and raise additional capital as time goes on and hit revenue milestones and higher specifically, and the machine that you have to be on when you take venture capital is incredibly specific towards creating a venture.
00;08;15;04 - 00;08;39;18
Derek
Outcome like that has to be what happens at the end of the road, because if you're taking on venture capital, you are responsible for third party interests. And you know, they if they're putting a dollar in, they want to get $2 out or $5 out or $10 out. After it's all said and done, I don't want to call it like an invisible hand, but there's there's you have to be building and every decision you do has to be incredibly specific towards that outcome and to.
00;08;39;19 - 00;08;59;05
Derek
So this is what I live and breathe. This is like what I, you know, glitch is a side project. But like what I, what I do is really kind of understand the inner workings of how that structure and that machine work and really try and create the best outcomes for my investors and for the projects that I work really closely with to to be able to do that job.
00;08;59;09 - 00;09;23;21
Derek
Art is not that to me, like art is something incredibly different. Art is not. Art should not be scheduled. Art should not be trying to hit revenue markers, or it should not be trying to make sure that you know your your your PNL looks interesting month over month. You know, I look at the contemporary art industry and I look at how the gallery model works.
00;09;23;21 - 00;09;51;12
Derek
And functionally it feels as if these two worlds are colliding. When and I'll talk about why I think that is slightly problematic. But before I do, I see how these two worlds are colliding. And I think the question has always been for me like, is that is that the right way to bring new work into the world? Is that are those constraints the most interesting way to deliver artistic endeavors or the creative practice from point A to point B?
00;09;51;12 - 00;10;15;06
Derek
And and I've never been convinced that it is. And I think one of the reasons why I started writing about crypto art and internet art so early on back in, I think that first article I wrote was in 20 early 2020. You're sleeping on crypto art is because you could actually rip out a lot of how the the machine works and allow these artists to kind of like, go direct on the internet and start collapsing.
00;10;15;06 - 00;10;47;22
Derek
A lot of the frictions that required art to travel from point A to point B between A, someone who would enjoy it and someone who would consume it, and someone who might want to own it. And it's just like, you know, with every artist that comes to glitch that we end up working with, I think to me, I looked at some of the material palette that exists around blockchains and crypto art in the internet, and the thought has always been, how do you recreate something more interesting with these design principles then with like the ones that we've already got, which is like hiring employees and staffing a physical gallery?
00;10;47;22 - 00;11;04;16
Derek
And these are don't get me wrong. These are things that we still do. And I'm I think there is there are benefits that come out of some of these things, but I but I will also say what those benefits come, pressures that I don't necessarily believe can be like the most conducive to, to to bringing and delivering art into the world.
00;11;04;18 - 00;11;25;12
Derek
Yeah, I think this is just a long way of saying like, I'm, I'm, I fully respect that. Like the way and I'm painting with a broad brush here because every gallery is different and I'm mostly not even speaking to kind of crypto galleries who I think are, I've noticed, have done things a little bit closer to the vision that I'm describing.
00;11;25;12 - 00;11;48;11
Derek
I'm more speaking like the traditional gallery model, you know, in general, who have done things like very specific that look like, you know, building these engines of business and commerce on top of what is largely like a very fluid and artistic practice. And I think, yeah, I think as someone who does that for a living, it just wasn't interesting to me to try and do that for art.
00;11;48;11 - 00;12;13;03
Derek
And so this leads back to the question I think Chris and pre you guys are asking, which is like, do we even have a calendar? Like do we even have, you know, do are we trying to hit the milestones in the short answer to that question from this very long answer I've already given you is no. And I and I think with that comes in incredible amount of freedom to be able to just like enjoy how work is being produced in the world.
00;12;13;03 - 00;12;46;25
Derek
And then, you know, once a project comes on your radar that you think is interesting or you think you might be able to add value to or you think that there is, yeah, there's a way that you can assist or help bridge or or. Yeah, you're uniquely suited to help with I think then it's like, okay, let's put our energy and our resource resources into bringing this into the world instead of trying to, you know, hit a cadence of revenue where, you know, we're we're making sure that we're keeping the lights on in the gallery and maybe bringing work that we're not in love with, but maybe we know we can sell.
00;12;46;25 - 00;13;06;12
Derek
And I just find, like with if I'm going to be doing something in my spare time with like the limited free time I have, I want to do it. I want to work on things that are interesting to me. And I think, and if I can do that as kind of like a North Star for glitch, and I know Madison and multiple this way to then I think we're more often than not we're not going to get it right every time.
00;13;06;12 - 00;13;10;08
Derek
But other people will find that interesting as well. So I think that's some of what you're seeing.
00;13;10;09 - 00;13;30;23
Pri
It's kind of I mean, the flexibility that you have is like kind of incredible. I feel like in a way you're like in a very privileged position that you can do it. And I was just thinking about it as you were speaking, like if you look at the modern Gallery slash, I don't know, it's called Art dealer system of art proliferation.
00;13;30;23 - 00;13;56;07
Pri
That's like largely like a 19th century type of like phenomena that has has happened and that gave rise to Impressionism and 20th century art, which is great. Like for most of human history, I feel like it's literally been like the church and wealthy merchants and others that have and like academic, you know, and governments, whatever, actually being able to commission and fund art.
00;13;56;08 - 00;14;03;25
Pri
And it's almost like you're you're like you're kind of almost going back to that model in a way.
00;14;03;27 - 00;14;25;13
Derek
No, I think that's a really interesting insight. I think that's right. And maybe to address something that you said at the very beginning of that, which is like it does feel a bit like a privilege. Like I also understand that, yeah, I understand that there is the flexibility that comes with that. Privilege is something that's not lost on me, and I fully recognize that not every structure or piece of infrastructure has the ability to do that.
00;14;25;13 - 00;14;34;28
Derek
But I'll also say it's also not lost on me that, like, that's why the interesting results maybe happen is because, like we it's all related, you know, and so.
00;14;34;29 - 00;14;36;11
Pri
You're not over engineering it.
00;14;36;12 - 00;14;37;28
Derek
Exactly, exactly.
00;14;38;00 - 00;14;57;29
Chris
And there's also affordances and trade offs that allow you to do this right. Like I mean glitch glitches the gallery. But glitch is only half the space you've got to borrow in an event space in the back. You've got a partner and see who is down there full time. Now you've picked the spot where you know you're you're off the beaten path.
00;14;58;00 - 00;15;24;18
Chris
Your costs are lower. You use it for multiple things and then your distribution. You guys are so internet native, right? This is really more like a home base. And, you know, maybe a spiritual place to operate out of versus you're you're putting yourself in front of foot traffic. And so, you know, like you you picked your spots right and lined yourself up to work a certain way.
00;15;24;19 - 00;15;47;10
Derek
I think that was the only way that this was ever going to work. I mean, the the gallery space is, yeah, the gallery, the physical gallery space is just one tool in the toolkit. And the truth is, it's like probably the least interesting tool to me. It's it's certainly hasn't been the thing that's generated revenue or like allowed people to kind of commercialize.
00;15;47;11 - 00;16;19;16
Derek
I think very rarely do we lead with that. I don't think, you know, I'm trying to think if we've ever done anything where somebody we did do one. So we had this awesome plinth project last year at Art blocks weekend from an artist named Pac-Man and Pac-Man scoop, and he built these seven plinths. There was these incredible, like cherry oak cabinets that were all kind of like there was a light show and a dance performance a associated with, kind of like the ebb and flow of market psychology.
00;16;19;16 - 00;16;43;10
Derek
And these plants were just gorgeous. And I think that may have been the only time in five years where we've ever had objects for sale in the gallery during the, during, you know, during a live exhibition. And so I think I bring up that data point because like, you're touching on something, Chris, which is to me to, to do digital art, to do blockchain art, to do crypto art, you really need to reinvestigate.
00;16;43;11 - 00;17;04;24
Derek
Like what are actually the ingredients that are most suitable for doing that. And it's one of the reasons why. Yes. So like we you know, we have this space in Marfa, but like none of us were in Marfa for dyes work, none of the we didn't I don't think, you know, the space in Marfa wasn't actually a piece of why this drop was conceptually interesting.
00;17;04;24 - 00;17;22;29
Derek
There wasn't foot traffic. There wasn't people going into the space to look at the art. It was really internet native. And like that has always been kind of my Northstar. We started with a project called Every 30 days where we did every three days we would feature a new exhibition for for a piece of like what we believe to be like.
00;17;23;00 - 00;17;49;04
Derek
Interesting work. In the early blockchain crypto art space. We featured things like punks and squiggles and X copy, right click and save as guy and memories of chillin and and in a you know a clear silver had a had a month in there and you know we we for sure left the gallery open for people to come and see the work and the exhibition live 99.9% of our efforts and the traffic that we saw happen digitally.
00;17;49;04 - 00;18;23;26
Derek
It happened on the web app. And so I think like, yeah, I just to be very clear, it the space in Marfa is awesome and I love it. And it's it's been a huge part of why we've been able to do really cool exhibitions during our blocks weekend. And some of like maybe these residency projects, but the real meat and potatoes of why I think this works is because it was built in a way that was designed for the internet and and meeting the market for crypto and blockchain based art, where I believe it's, you know, the most interesting stuff is happening, which is over a computer screen degree.
00;18;23;27 - 00;18;44;11
Pri
I mean, even if you think about as you were speaking to it, I mean, if you think about like the evolution of just the I know I kind of have been going back to these analogies, but I think it's like interesting to put it into perspective. But much of the traditional art world as well is like looked through a phone or a screen, like when it comes to online bidding for physical works.
00;18;44;11 - 00;19;05;06
Pri
Or, you know, we talked a little bit about this in Flamingo, but just even like some of these collectibles on eBay, it's not like it's almost like the physical space in these events and Marfa and even like you could say Art Basel and the fairs, they're they're almost about the humanity of like, hey, let me meet the gallerist and kind of mingle with other collectors.
00;19;05;07 - 00;19;30;16
Pri
Similarly with like Marfa every year and like your space glitch there, it's like it's more about the collective. Like, you know, the moments between humans as opposed to like, observing the art in that physical form. Of course. You know, that's not to say that people don't do that more seriously when they go to galleries and such, but like, you know, I feel like I'm often, often taking in physical artworks through a screen anyway.
00;19;30;21 - 00;19;43;17
Pri
Like it almost like most art is observed through a computer at this point and bid on and, you know, shared. You know, you're taking a picture of a painting and sending it to someone through a phone.
00;19;43;17 - 00;20;05;20
Derek
So I think that insight pre is the right one. And I don't think the infrastructure for contemporary art has fully, if definitely not fully realized it. But like even to take a step further, even if they had, would the way the machine works runs counter to how best to support proliferation in the world that you're designing or you're describing.
00;20;05;20 - 00;20;26;04
Derek
And that to me is the interesting space like to play in that? That is far more interesting to me and more contemporary than and this is not I love like I love what node is doing. I love our exhibitions at glitch during our blocks weekend. I love walking into heft when I'm in New York and I there's some there.
00;20;26;05 - 00;20;51;08
Derek
There is something irreplaceable about RL and I would never say these these models can't work or should not be a part of the puzzle. But what I am. But what I am saying is, I think that insight that you're making offers an immense, immense, immense amount of interesting subject matter and surface area that I don't think most folks have fully realized, certainly not outside of like the crypto art space.
00;20;51;11 - 00;21;17;08
Pri
Yeah. It's interesting. So I stopped by, like the Christie's Art and Tech Summit yesterday and listened in to some of the panels. There's, you know, definitely an interesting observations that I pulled from there. But one, he was really good actually, I thought was one of the better, like, panels. This guy, Max Carter, he's the chairman. He was just super honest about like the art market and very clearheaded.
00;21;17;08 - 00;21;42;28
Pri
But when asked about it, I don't think it was like from the same lens as which we're discussing. But like, he was talking a little bit about this, like physical auction piece like, and how since he's been there for 20 plus years, but over the last like five, they've invested heavily in like different I don't know if you've ever seen any of the like, Christie's physical auctions, but they have like multiple camera angles.
00;21;43;00 - 00;22;15;03
Pri
It's like it's almost like a full scale kind of live production event. And so they'll like have people, you know, the people on the calls, they have a camera facing them. They have a camera with the auctioneer as the camera to the audience. So they're investing more in the infrastructure of the media around. And he even said that actually yesterday, which I thought was interesting around like the online digital experience to like the media experience of of watching an auction, which, you know, I don't know where I'm going with that, but like, I just thought that was interesting.
00;22;15;03 - 00;22;31;15
Pri
And then like, they had a couple people that were like in artsy and the amount of like artsy auctions that they have have only increased and they're like noticing younger buyers through artsy. So I feel like it's a slow realization. But I didn't think that was interesting that he noted that.
00;22;31;18 - 00;22;33;00
Derek
Yeah, that is interesting.
00;22;33;01 - 00;23;06;20
Chris
And I mean, that's just commerce catching up to, you know, trends that have been going on forever. You know, we Instagram has changed the presentation of art. It's it's turned I'll often just into a setting, you know, in which you can project your your way online. But I don't want to get too far out into here. I actually want to come back around and talk about di talk about the art, because, you know, he's a really interesting creator.
00;23;06;20 - 00;23;38;10
Chris
I would say I actually enjoy his his writing, his communication skills more than the joy of the art. Right? I do like his art, but like I look at this guy and to me he's a bit like the Mike judge of our space in that, you know, it's satire, it's commentary, it's taking the world and, you know, it's hurting it into this very like skewered, distorted, exaggerated vision.
00;23;38;10 - 00;24;02;28
Chris
But with this drop, you know, we saw a new dimension to him. It's almost like when Tom Hanks went from being a comedic actor to a dramatic actor. And, you know, there's a whole emotional palette. There's, you know, both like a very intense personal grief going on in here. But then, you know, he's also turned that into more of a, a collective and a communal message.
00;24;02;28 - 00;24;24;01
Chris
It's very on point with him in terms of, you know, dying is not enough, right? Like it brings everyone in. What was it like, you know, Derek, because you guys have also really you know, most of your drops tend to be about the medium, about the network, right. Like, you guys don't get down in your fields all that much.
00;24;24;01 - 00;24;27;26
Chris
So what was it like working on a project like this?
00;24;27;27 - 00;25;06;20
Derek
Yeah, great. Great question. I think the, the, the I guess maybe to like address some of what you're describing. I think Di is all of those things that you said he is incredibly observant about kind of the world around him. I think my judge is a is a really interesting kind of analogy to draw. I think like Mike judge, I think is very good at producing work that gets people to confront themselves with some of the things that the, the world, I mean, the things that maybe others aren't observing, but things that, you know, demonstrate some of the interesting dynamics that are happening around the world and in pop culture and in contemporary culture.
00;25;06;20 - 00;25;25;02
Derek
I'd say this work to me was was most interesting. I remember the first time he showed this, some of the I think a good chunk of the work to me was last year, like towards the end of the year, and I was going through these, the pieces and I was like, man, this stuff is just like, just devastatingly sad.
00;25;25;03 - 00;25;49;29
Derek
Like, I don't even know if there's humor in in some of these or satire and like, this, doesn't it? Of course. Like had all of the hallmarks of like of dies work and, and I think just the artistry and he's just like very, very he's got so much talent in like in his body. And I will talk about the poems and I'll talk about the titles and I'll talk about his line work and even some of the animation process.
00;25;49;29 - 00;26;13;22
Derek
This is like a brand new way of making work for him. These pieces there's I have so much to say on all this stuff because I think he's just immensely talented. But I would say, like conceptually, this work to the thing that stood out to me and maybe why I was so interested in working on it was it actually felt like a, like a, like there was he was taking a new step into kind of territory that felt obviously very similar.
00;26;13;22 - 00;26;32;27
Derek
You can draw a through line across all this stuff, but like, just like it's just like there's no two ways about it. It's just like very sad work. I and my wife and, and have had kind of like a rough year over the last six months, like we were going through some of our own family things. And I talked about this on a podcast I did with I that we recorded in LA when he flew out.
00;26;32;27 - 00;26;55;18
Derek
But like, I lost somebody very, very close to me, you know, during the like production of this. And she, she was 75. There were 75 artworks. The reason why there's 75 artworks is because that's the average age of death in Indiana, where he's from. And so like to me, like, I think the work was so unabashedly not humorous and deeply like sad.
00;26;55;18 - 00;27;20;27
Derek
And I think that was he made that okay. And I think everybody could see a little bit of themselves in this work and, and that subject matter, like really wrenched for a lot of people that I think it was just like it was just like very compelling, just from a subject matter perspective, I think. Yeah. Maybe the just to touch back on your question about like the network versus concept, you know, I am a, I, I love art on the internet.
00;27;20;27 - 00;28;05;07
Derek
I think it is distributing art on the internet, selling out on the internet, discovering art on the internet is the native form factor for why this stuff is interesting. I fully acknowledge that there's other ways to bring art into the world. And like I've bought art recently in ways that weren't, let's call it internet native. But to me, there is an immense amount of aura and power to doing things like a no reserve auction from zero with letting the market discover and chew through the work on their own, anywhere around the world, across the seven seas, you know, 180 countries, 24 over seven globally, from everything from a mobile phone to a PC to, you
00;28;05;07 - 00;28;30;00
Derek
know, a gaming rig, when you're whatever hashing inference on a GPU and you want to flip over and see some cool crypto or it's just like it's it's the fucking best. And so to really leverage the power of like, where I think the internet can play a role, like one of the ones, of course can do that. But like, I think these larger editions are generative, are really, really well suited for this form factor.
00;28;30;00 - 00;28;53;07
Derek
And so the fact that there was 75 pieces, the fact that there was this immense amount of craftsmanship that were went into them, the fact that there was this subject matter evolution and like this concept that was just like so deeply resonant and not even I don't like, I could wax, you know, poetry about just like the talent around some of like the actual work itself from a technical perspective.
00;28;53;08 - 00;29;08;27
Derek
But I think the work largely speaks for itself. I think people can go through these animations in the line work and see some of the detail here. I mean, these are pieces that took him almost two years to create, end to end. I was just like, this is just this is something I want to help with. This is like a work that I want to help you bring into the world.
00;29;08;27 - 00;29;14;08
Derek
And so I would say that was the draw, Chris, to maybe answer your question directly.
00;29;14;09 - 00;29;40;24
Chris
Yeah. No. Thank you. Really appreciate that. It's there's a lot of heavy subject matter here. I think you guys didn't amazing job of delivering it. I think the timing of it is you know right. Not right on time. But I mean, there there was a gap. You guys came and you filled it. You know, you filled it in a way that was consequential.
00;29;40;24 - 00;30;03;28
Chris
Crypto art often doesn't deliver confrontations with nihilism. And that's a very hard, hard trick to pull off. And you guys, you went there. You you got it done. And so, you know, I'm sure you're exhausted by all of this, but you know, congratulations. And, you know, thanks for sharing all that. Are you here with we want to put Derrick through the ringer on or.
00;30;03;29 - 00;30;34;18
Pri
Yeah. No I mean I think it was a great job I you guys I mean the execution was great. I feel like also the communication online around it was, was well done. So great job to the team like Madison and Malte and everyone else that probably participated and of course die as well. I guess the one thing you know, and not to go like because I think the drop is beautiful, but I'm kind of curious just to like, switch gears on the market side like it was, you know, given the where it is today.
00;30;34;18 - 00;30;55;22
Pri
And we've been in this like crypto NFT little for what feels like honestly years. I think it actually literally has been years. And there's very few drops like the last one. I could think of that. Like, did you know remarkably well was like that was like purely more of like an internet native drop was like probably like Kim's Pixel Dex.
00;30;55;23 - 00;31;16;09
Pri
Like, I don't even know if that's fair. That's like what's coming to mind for me right now. Maybe there's actually, I don't know, maybe there's been a few here and there actually. But it's been like difficult for things to cut through in this market. Do you feel like this was a work that is going to kind of lead in and hopefully.
00;31;16;11 - 00;31;18;12
Chris
Against the market to come back? Derrick.
00;31;18;15 - 00;31;19;02
Derek
Yeah, this.
00;31;19;02 - 00;31;21;27
Pri
Is the I try to say this in a very like.
00;31;21;28 - 00;31;26;01
Derek
We're moving into the we're moving into the wagon part of this conversation which I'm fully here for.
00;31;26;03 - 00;31;38;03
Pri
Well it's not necessarily even. Yeah I guess it is wagon but I mean like do you think this will like usher in more successful drops, like, do we feel like, you know, this this could potentially.
00;31;38;05 - 00;31;39;26
Chris
A catalyst.
00;31;39;29 - 00;31;40;24
Pri
A catalyst.
00;31;40;25 - 00;31;43;24
Derek
I think it's and I think it's an interesting question.
00;31;43;25 - 00;31;57;04
Pri
Artist the confidence to maybe like they've been sitting on work and maybe they're like okay like I don't know if the market's ready or whatever. Like maybe it leads because I would imagine there are like amazing artists that have work, but they're just like the timing hasn't been great for me.
00;31;57;05 - 00;32;22;15
Derek
I think it's interesting. Like I, you know, I, I am really proud of the work that, that myself and Maddie and Malta did on this for, for some of the reasons that you're touching on because like I, I do think the space has maybe lost sight on the fact that stuff like this is possible and, and I can talk about the market structure stuff here too, like just because that's what I do for my day job.
00;32;22;15 - 00;32;53;24
Derek
But on the art side, you know, I, I really am proud of the fact that this was done in a way that like to me felt like it was spiritually what kind of like it was nourishing for I think artists and collectors and people who have no interest in making art or collecting art, but who want to view art and engage themselves with the with like the, you know, with work on the internet kind of needed to kind of like, see, like, oh, they're like, let's not forget like, this is why we all came here to begin with.
00;32;53;25 - 00;33;15;03
Derek
Like, people could make art on the internet, on intermediate and sell it direct starting from zero and allow a market to come around and price it and then own it in a sovereign way that that, you know, allows them to do whatever they'd like with it in the future. They could pass it on to their children. They can, you know, go to a print shop and print it out.
00;33;15;05 - 00;33;48;20
Derek
They could get a whatever, take a loan out on it if they really want to like it. And I think there's something really beautiful about that. And I'm really proud that, like, I have been very, very strong, strict with, you know, with how I talk about why I like crypto art. And this drop embodies that. And I feel very proud to be hopefully helping shine a light back, that this stuff is possible and that these are the wrong gradients that are going to allow the next stage of art to crypto art to kind of like take off, can I say.
00;33;48;23 - 00;33;50;07
Derek
And then on the market.
00;33;50;13 - 00;33;52;25
Chris
No, you cannot say, you cannot say.
00;33;52;27 - 00;34;10;08
Derek
I just, I was just I Chris, you asked such a good question like 20 minutes ago that I had more to say on like the poetry. Because because dei really does view the poetry associated with each artwork as part of the work itself, and the titles as part of the work itself. Like these are fully contained artworks in and of themselves.
00;34;10;08 - 00;34;28;10
Derek
Just, you know, the medium allows for things like this to happen for like a poem to be attached to the artwork with a very long ass title that's way more descriptive than like a normal title would be The Heart that, like, draws a line across. You know, the visual, you know, the visual animation that you're seeing, but then also the poetry behind it.
00;34;28;10 - 00;34;51;16
Derek
And I think that's like very medium native way to kind of like create a one on one artwork. And I and, you know, I don't know if most people know this, but like, di is a published author, he's written like, I don't know, half a dozen books, maybe more. And he's an incredible, incredible poet. And yeah, I hope people get a chance to spend time with both the animations themselves because they are fucking incredible.
00;34;51;16 - 00;35;12;21
Derek
But then also the poems and the titles and and and and that and them all together and take their time with it because it is really cool. I think there's one last thing that I wanted to say, which was so funny to me. I don't even know if this was satire, but I saw I was scrolling through my feed yesterday between calls, and I didn't have a chance to kind of look into it or see the comments or anything, but I just chuckled to myself.
00;35;12;21 - 00;35;34;24
Derek
But somebody was like, kind of can't even remember. I'm totally going to push this sweet. But somebody was like, congratulations to all. Congratulations. Oh no. It was like, congratulations to all the buyers who bought this new work. Now what are you going to do? It's like you can't really hang this stuff up. It's disgusting. Like, just like a very, like, punchy tweet about how, like, the work is grotesque.
00;35;34;24 - 00;35;53;22
Derek
And like what? Like, why are people even buying this? It's like, you can't fucking like, you know, having something so disgusting and disturbing on your wall, like, can you. And I just want to maybe I think that was I think it was probably satire. But I do want to address that because I actually find that to be I find this to be so interesting to me.
00;35;53;22 - 00;36;27;10
Derek
It's like, why can't we hang morose shit on our walls? Like, we've totally normalized this idea that domestic art, you know, like in our living room or in our bedrooms, it should, like, calm us or flatter us or be pretty or like. And I am a huge I do this like, I have beautiful art hanging up on my walls and and some of it is like just very it's like geometry or it's like, you know, generative art and it's just like it really works with like the the pattern of the living room and the couch and the rug and, and I love that.
00;36;27;10 - 00;36;52;25
Derek
And I will continue to do that. But then there's also something very interesting to me about the fact that, like, this work is so loaded with like, fear and like death and like, you know, it really drives feelings that are, you know, oftentimes very private. And a lot of the contemporary art world doesn't lead with these things. They lead with, like, what's going to look good on your wall or on your floor or and I think that's, that's surface.
00;36;52;26 - 00;37;16;24
Derek
So I think it's part of the reason why, I don't know if work like this could have ever flowed through a traditional setting and had the same type of success in this way. Like maybe, maybe it could like, you know, a prolific artist who turned his attention to some of this stuff. And maybe you can argue that we've already started to see some of this depravity and some works in the contemporary space.
00;37;16;24 - 00;37;47;16
Derek
But but I'll also say, like, I do think there is something really special about Dei meeting this moment that we're currently in and really just like creating such a deeply sad, just a deeply, deeply like mournful and, I don't know, difficult sometimes to look at body of work. It it being something that like I think it is interesting to kind of like normalize around how we think about displaying it and like hanging it up.
00;37;47;18 - 00;38;11;04
Derek
Like part of me thinks like the work could of course, live on phones and internet screens and you no social media feeds forever. I think this work is very well suited for that. And there's also another part of me that's like, you know, blow this thing up and put a giant LEDs and put it in a fucking, you know, museum and like, have it be 20ft by 20ft.
00;38;11;04 - 00;38;19;23
Derek
And like, I, I am here for I'm here for that, I guess is what I'm trying to say. So anyway, I don't know if that resonates with you guys.
00;38;19;25 - 00;38;48;14
Chris
It has felt Di is one of the few people who can master the flatulent, exhaustive network space and transform it into the material component that demand they escape the boundaries of Gorilla Glass and ask uncomfortable questions about, why can't I put this beyond my commode? Why can't I hang it in my living room? Why can't it not be the showpiece?
00;38;48;17 - 00;39;26;27
Chris
Derek, thank you so much for this. And with my newly anointed Larry King. Powers of observation. You've been using a term today several times, a term I haven't really heard much from you in the past, and it's spiritual, and I want to shift topics here and talk about the timeline and the change in the Twitter algorithm. And it seems that Elon has finally relented that the day use are going down, that the clipping, the celebrities, the monetization engine, and the blocking of mutuals has finally taken a toll and it's time to return.
00;39;27;03 - 00;39;48;04
Chris
Returned to the idea that Twitter is a space in which mutuals want to converse. They want to gather, they want to say GM to each other. And we've seen a spiritual rebirth with the relenting and the rollback of this algorithm in which they claimed was a bug, a bug that for two years, three years has kept our community down, has kept us apart.
00;39;48;05 - 00;40;12;10
Chris
And yet we hung on like barnacles, addicted barnacles to the side of this uncaring machine. And that machine is now finally relented and we're all back together. And so what are your thoughts? Is this the catalyst pre needs is the spiritual timeline, the melding of the RMS, the bringing back of this tribe. Is that going to be an inciting event?
00;40;12;11 - 00;40;13;05
Derek
I think it might.
00;40;13;05 - 00;40;13;29
Pri
Be a good question.
00;40;13;29 - 00;40;24;17
Derek
I think it might be I think I really quickly I just have to say that gorilla Glass Lion Chris was fucking ten out of ten, just like, I mean, you've got me in a chokehold with that one and can't wait.
00;40;24;18 - 00;40;29;27
Chris
I'm channeling die right now. Really good. I too can flip a word around every once in a while. And in honor of him.
00;40;29;29 - 00;40;53;08
Derek
It was really, really some of your best work. I yeah, I like I haven't spent enough time with like the algo change. My understanding was like about mutuals, not like friends or people you follow. It's it's really kind of like trying to tie the knot around some of like the mutual discovery back on your, your native feed, which I think is probably I mean that's a, that's a good thing.
00;40;53;08 - 00;41;09;15
Derek
That's a that that feels like a necessary thing for a social media product to have with whatever a billion users. So I, I, I do think that that is I mean, I can't see why it would be bearish. I think every little bit helps.
00;41;09;21 - 00;41;28;27
Pri
Yeah. Aaron was we were talking about it at the office actually. Aaron's like it's actually more bullish than I think we're like fully realizing even for me like I feel like I independently like before we even started talking about it, I feel like I've seen more crypto and and frankly, like digital art and NFTs on my timeline in the last week than I've seen, like in the last year.
00;41;28;27 - 00;41;57;22
Pri
I don't know if you guys are feeling the same way about your timeline. I do think it is contributed to the algo shift again. Maybe people have always shared or maybe they're sharing it now more. I don't know what the actual attribution or reason for that, but like I think it it is to Chris's point, it is bringing the band back together again, like so much of of this space is like this 24 over seven conversation that exists on Twitter and, you know, getting exposure through your friends.
00;41;57;24 - 00;42;16;08
Pri
So I think it could be more I mean, I've been feeling like more engaged. I think as a result of that, the one thing that's like a little bit of a downer with the new algo for me is like the I used to get a little bit more like unique things to me that like would get me down rabbit holes.
00;42;16;08 - 00;42;30;21
Pri
I feel like I'm seeing more of my friends, which I actually like more, but I don't know if I'm seeing like more new, new things I don't know or like finding a weird rabbit hole to go down. But I do like seeing people again. I think the owl goes much better. I think it's it could be big for crypto.
00;42;30;27 - 00;42;39;18
Pri
And also I don't know if like X was artificially suppressing suppressing crypto and NFTs for a while, people were saying that that was the case, but.
00;42;39;24 - 00;42;59;05
Chris
The hand was on the scale one way or the other, and that hand is lifted. How far? What was tweaked? I mean, we don't know. And the Keita's messaging around this is completely disingenuous. And you should knock that shit off right the fuck now. Oh, he does this all the time. He's like, oh, you realize this was a bug?
00;42;59;05 - 00;43;24;01
Chris
It's like, no, it was not a bug. It was an intentional test by you. And whatever the internal dynamics are between you and Elon and you and other folks at Twitter, like none of us can know this, but we certainly can know that you are not some blind mouse who is just discovering mistakes and undoing them. That's not what's going on here.
00;43;24;03 - 00;43;58;26
Chris
Whatever. You know, whatever the reason was right? They made a concerted effort to go around and program and enhance monetization and, you know, shape the algorithm in a certain way to drive traffic to the sort of content they wanted to. And what what happened, I, I feel like clipping is one of these things in which the unintended consequences of what they were trying to do started to get out of hand.
00;43;58;27 - 00;44;20;17
Chris
You know, Nikita did say, you know, maybe a month ago that they ran a test in which they shadow banned the top ten earning accounts on the platform to see what would happen. And they'd got more engagement. They got, you know, better, healthy statistics. And then when pressed on it, you know, someone's like, well, what were those accounts doing?
00;44;20;17 - 00;44;45;12
Chris
And he said, well, they were just taking other viral clips and repackaging them. Right. We've seen like we've all seen the same dumb viral videos, you know, surface over and over and over. Right? There's a whole cottage industry out there in which guys in India just consume Twitter, figure out what goes, take it, put it up in their sock puppet accounts and push it out.
00;44;45;12 - 00;45;11;11
Chris
And so, you know, I you find the metric people or what's that phrase? You know, whatever the metric is that becomes a behavior and that behavior, then, you know, changes what you were originally trying for this. This is certainly one of these things where it got out of hand. I mean, if I see another Jason Segel clip, another Matt Damon clip, another Jaylen Brown clip, like.
00;45;11;12 - 00;45;12;24
Pri
I love Jaylen Brown though.
00;45;12;27 - 00;45;30;01
Chris
You're a JB. All right. Let's let's let's unpack this because as a selfish fan I've been I've been on the JB ride since draft day. I'm imagining pre your you was like someone who's coming to sports a little sooner. Doesn't have the whole body in history.
00;45;30;02 - 00;45;30;16
Pri
I don't.
00;45;30;21 - 00;45;32;18
Chris
J. Brown so what's your experience?
00;45;32;18 - 00;45;42;07
Pri
JB wait, okay. So you're going to like, literally hate me because I, I really I thought you said Jalen Brunson.
00;45;42;09 - 00;45;49;11
Chris
We got the wrong JV. All right. We're in the same we're in the same sport in the same initials.
00;45;49;13 - 00;45;52;27
Pri
I googled when you said Celtics and I was like oh shit. So no.
00;45;52;28 - 00;45;59;05
Chris
I have an Bronson. I actually think he's been a little quiet really.
00;45;59;05 - 00;46;02;24
Pri
I feel like he's been on my feet a lot, like with the space and stuff.
00;46;02;26 - 00;46;08;20
Chris
Okay, then maybe we're just having different timelines because I don't gravitate towards Nick stuff.
00;46;08;25 - 00;46;10;09
Pri
Okay. That's fine. Yeah.
00;46;10;14 - 00;46;16;03
Chris
So Mr. Brunson has been getting busy. He's been making making a name for himself.
00;46;16;04 - 00;46;16;21
Pri
Yeah.
00;46;16;22 - 00;46;20;07
Chris
Okay. Is he doing a good job of it?
00;46;20;10 - 00;46;42;28
Pri
I mean, yeah, I actually I mean, the thing is, like, I'm biased because I think he's like a nice guy, but. Yeah, I didn't mean to cut off your point, though, but yeah, you're right. I think as far as, like what was happening and what, you know, was getting surfaced up to people on the timeline, do you? I guess, I guess to go back to the actual question, do you like the I mean, the Nikita stuff, like putting all that stuff aside, do you like the recent change?
00;46;42;29 - 00;46;44;17
Pri
Like, do you think it's actually better?
00;46;44;23 - 00;47;11;15
Chris
Yeah, I'd rather chat with people I know. I'd rather have a little back and forth. You know, all of these sort of systems require a certain critical mass to go. And when you follow these below that critical mass, you know, things drop off really, really quick. And so there's a lot of people on our timeline who, you know, I used to see a lot more or interact with more frequently, you know, like someone like so-and-so.
00;47;11;16 - 00;47;26;01
Chris
Right. Let's just take someone who's like every day prolific on there, and you'd only see him once or twice or let's take your man there, Phelps. Divine economy. Right? He was a prolific post.
00;47;26;03 - 00;47;27;03
Pri
That's true.
00;47;27;05 - 00;47;37;25
Chris
And he was often in the center of conversations. I don't think his posting ever went away, but did I? Did I see him more than once a week? If that certainly not.
00;47;37;26 - 00;47;43;01
Pri
Oh my god, yeah, I mean zero beta two I feel like I've been seeing yeah, it's kind of fun to see people again.
00;47;43;02 - 00;48;03;19
Chris
I, I've been seeing zero beta zero beta somehow is never left my my feed. He's been on a big golf quest lately. He's got a new puppy like I know I know what zero bait is up to, but for every zero beta, I know what they're up to. There's ten other folks that we lost lost sight on.
00;48;03;20 - 00;48;04;27
Pri
Am I on your feed?
00;48;04;29 - 00;48;08;19
Chris
Yeah, you're on my feed. It's funny, I will.
00;48;08;21 - 00;48;09;26
Pri
You're on mine too.
00;48;09;28 - 00;48;29;12
Chris
I'll often see you more like I'll see you during the day when I'm working. But then a lot of your stuff, I actually will, will pick it up on for you. You know, if I've exhausted my scrolling, I'm on, you know, for you, while the bots are slaving away and I'm waiting for response. I'll see stuff from you 20 hours ago that I missed.
00;48;29;14 - 00;48;45;26
Chris
You know, that's doing big numbers. And so I don't get every single thing. I don't get every thought, every take that comes out of your influencer canon. But the four you feed seems to think I need to. I need to catch up on everything I missed and does that job.
00;48;45;27 - 00;49;00;09
Pri
Yeah, yeah. I also I was wondering like because you know, we have obviously net society and that Twitter account there. Like I was wondering if it like knows were associated based on like tags and accounts that it kind of I don't know, maybe that's a little bit too complex, but I assume.
00;49;00;10 - 00;49;03;02
Chris
Like you're getting into mutual theory here.
00;49;03;06 - 00;49;21;14
Pri
Yeah. Yeah, I'm getting into mutual theory. Like how deep does the mutual go? But no, I mean, I personally I personally like it. I mean, it's actually like I'm like, maybe I mean, I think as I'm losing some like AI content because it was like so heavily on the for you that I'm like, okay, I need to like start following some of these accounts again.
00;49;21;16 - 00;49;46;02
Chris
That, that sort of viral stickiness. Well, AI like haven't been needing to be on for you as much because, you know, the the follower feeds doing a better job. But there were certain things around, you know, technology splats, whatever. Like, you know, that it would get really viral for a day and, and splatter you with stuff on the topic.
00;49;46;02 - 00;50;05;07
Chris
And maybe that's fallen off. And for a conspiracy junkie like yourself, you know, maybe losing that is leaving a void in in your I need to I need a rabbit hole to run down modus operandi. So you're liking rabbit holes these days?
00;50;05;09 - 00;50;06;28
Pri
I know, yeah.
00;50;07;02 - 00;50;10;02
Chris
You haven't had a good a good conspiracy in a minute.
00;50;10;03 - 00;50;25;00
Pri
Not even. But, like, even like, I don't know, like, the Murdoch stuff was keeping me busy for a bit. Trying to think of, like, what rabbit hole I have been. I'm like looking at my chat history now to see if there's like any interesting rabbit holes. But I.
00;50;25;02 - 00;50;54;27
Chris
Do know that there is a fake Tony say Will, that's circulating in Nevada probate at the moment. Okay, well, that's one maybe you ought to get on. Yeah. Someone someone came out of the woodwork. And so for everyone who doesn't know, Tony say was the founder of Zappos, sold out to Amazon, moved to the gas, wanted to revitalize certain parts of downtown.
00;50;54;28 - 00;51;09;07
Chris
Bought a lot of land there. Started doing interesting projects at the same time, you know, develop some habits and addictions that led to more and more erratic behavior and ultimately died in a fire.
00;51;09;09 - 00;51;17;15
Pri
People aren't convinced that he actually like there is some talks of either suicide or murder, too. I don't know if you ever followed those, but.
00;51;17;16 - 00;51;40;23
Chris
You know, I think there's a lot of open questions around there. I tend to be an Occam's razor on this one, which was, you know, he he's really into nitrous. He had a lot of candles out and about. You know, he was in a very dark place. And so I'll, I'll go with the accepted version of this, but yes, someone to step forward and said that they found a handwritten will.
00;51;40;23 - 00;52;09;25
Chris
And apparently there's a lot of parallels to Howard Hughes. Back in the day, there was. Yes. So apparently there was a mormon will which surfaced after his death in the 50s, 60, I believe, somewhat somewhere in there. And, you know, Howard Hughes at the end of his life became a recluse, you know, very, very similar, I think, patterns to to Tony say here.
00;52;09;25 - 00;52;33;05
Chris
And so someone, you know, a few months after his death came forward with a will which was ultimately proven to be a forgery. But he was a gas station attendant in Utah, and he claimed that he'd, you know, given Howard a ride when when his car broke down or, you know, something to that extent. And that was like the basis of their tenuous relationship.
00;52;33;05 - 00;52;56;08
Chris
And he structured the will such that the majority of it was going to the Church of Latter day Saints and that he was he was just getting a small, tiny amount as a, you know, a gesture and token of being a good Samaritan at a particular point in time. And ultimately that ended up being which McCall it proved a forgery.
00;52;56;08 - 00;53;23;08
Chris
And so, yes, someone else has brought forward very similar sort of circumstances in which, you know, hand scrawled will has certain claims around, should you challenge, should the heirs challenge this? You know, their their claim, their inheritance of being validated and stuff like that. And so that's, that's just, you know, maybe, maybe a little morsel of conspiracy to carry you over during these lean times.
00;53;23;10 - 00;53;33;22
Pri
I actually I'm going to I'm going to go down it like there's, there's this could like how no one written about this like I'm like or has there, has there been a journal review of it or something like where.
00;53;33;22 - 00;53;36;24
Chris
Did you. Yeah, there was a journal article on this. How else would I know about it?
00;53;36;25 - 00;53;40;11
Pri
Yeah. I was like, that's like the only thing you read these days. I feel.
00;53;40;13 - 00;53;42;01
Chris
That and technical specs.
00;53;42;06 - 00;53;57;12
Pri
Yeah. Okay. Well, yeah, there is always good bits in the journal that you could like then go down a rabbit hole down. I feel like they do good wide ranging coverage. I gotta, I gotta read it more. Gotta, gotta get off. The Substack died. It's like the same same stuff.
00;53;57;14 - 00;54;03;22
Chris
Yeah. You're having a tough time with the conforming conformity of the emerging elite scribe class that is Substack.
00;54;03;23 - 00;54;07;06
Pri
Yeah. I'm like, maybe I just go to go back to print journalism.
00;54;07;10 - 00;54;17;17
Chris
Or are we still in Dark Forest over on Substack? We still curating our taste in closed communities. We still silently signaling things. What's going on in substances?
00;54;17;18 - 00;54;26;24
Pri
Yeah, in the Substack world, a lot of trend forecasting. It's. But meaning like you're asking, like if there's any new, new insights.
00;54;26;27 - 00;54;27;20
Chris
I am.
00;54;27;24 - 00;54;44;28
Pri
I have been following, I will say more like space and tech sub stacks. And so like I do feel like you get a lot a lot of that. There's a lot more conversation on like read America, which you can kind of honestly, that stuff trickles into Twitter pretty pretty quickly.
00;54;45;01 - 00;54;50;13
Chris
Wait, so is there like a sub slash act? Is that the wing of Substack you're in?
00;54;50;16 - 00;54;53;06
Pri
I mean, I mean, no, but there are like there is.
00;54;53;08 - 00;54;54;16
Chris
Yeah. Substack.
00;54;54;18 - 00;55;14;04
Pri
Yeah. Kind of I guess I'm like looking at it. I mean, Scott Alexander, stochastic terrorism, the idea if you spread fear and mistrust against a target, then eventually people will commit violence against that target and it'll be your fault even if you never specifically said the words you should commit violence. Great. So yeah, that's that's what's going on in the Substack corner.
00;55;14;06 - 00;55;17;14
Chris
We're guilting ourselves over Hyper Station.
00;55;17;16 - 00;55;18;26
Pri
Is that.
00;55;18;29 - 00;55;21;14
Chris
Is that the upside?
00;55;21;17 - 00;55;40;08
Pri
No, I'm just like I like him scanning what's even here. Kimmy? Everyone's talking Kimmy the wrong stuff, which is everywhere, but like, I can't I like, is it weird that I'm kind of, like, exiting that, like, I can't keep up with, like, the frenetic nature of the Strait of Hormuz? Like, I just like, I'm kind of like, anytime I see it, I'm just, like, blocking it out.
00;55;40;09 - 00;56;01;07
Chris
That's fine. Look, I'm of the opinion you don't owe the world anything, and the world is trying to use you in, you know, parasocial acts of manipulation, like your your info defense against those. Right? It's just you got to turn your back on it. And I know people are like, oh, how can you do this? This is a war.
00;56;01;08 - 00;56;31;20
Chris
This is global, this is this, that and the other. And it's like, I could think about the Strada Hormuz 24 over seven. I could not fall asleep because I'm so worked up about it. It will not do a damn thing. And all you're doing is taking attention away from things. I have agency and action over and redirecting them as some form of like misaligned proxy and trying to draw me into a world in which I'm like a tiny speck of fuel feeding your fire.
00;56;31;20 - 00;56;39;15
Chris
And I have no actual, like, impact at all other than to get burnt by it. And so no, no thank you. I would prefer.
00;56;39;17 - 00;56;47;07
Pri
Not a that's kind of very aligned with like the Chad service. Right. Or like the retard maxing idea.
00;56;47;09 - 00;57;16;08
Chris
You know, I'm, I'm critical theory field on this. I am rooted in Marcus's great refusal, rooted in Simone Vai on the abolition of all political parties. I'm rooted in Zizek. I'm rooted in our man, Herman Melville and Bartleby, like I, the only thing I can effectively do is withhold my participation in things that do not love me back, in things in which I have no control or impact over.
00;57;16;10 - 00;57;43;05
Chris
You know, that's like really the only act, I think, of resistance that at this particular moment in time is the redirection of your energy into positive things within your own spheres of control, within your own network of relationships. You know, I could bang the door for the for the DSA, for Kamala, for MAGA, for Trump. I could I could get so worked up and then we'll never give me anything back in return.
00;57;43;05 - 00;57;45;16
Chris
And so no, I will not do that.
00;57;45;18 - 00;58;06;26
Pri
I do think there's like a wider trend to, to to to that point. Actually, I think people are realizing that, like it's actually not you don't get much in return. And like there's way there's more productive uses of time where you can either get something in return or actually like feed yourself with like non affirming information that will better yourself as a human being.
00;58;07;00 - 00;58;09;08
Chris
Politics will never love you back pre.
00;58;09;09 - 00;58;09;29
Pri
I know.
00;58;10;05 - 00;58;16;22
Chris
It's as simple as that. And so no I will take I will take that attention. I will turn it elsewhere.
00;58;16;25 - 00;58;22;16
Pri
Agreed. Cool. On that note, should we should we wrap up the pod?
00;58;22;21 - 00;58;30;04
Chris
Yeah. I don't think there's there's anywhere else we can go without digging, digging into quicksand and getting ourselves in trouble. And so.
00;58;30;10 - 00;58;34;29
Pri
To Merville, what you and I feel like we always go into, like, a doom reveal.
00;58;35;01 - 00;58;39;06
Chris
But this wasn't doom reveal. I think we did a great job of avoiding doom reveal.
00;58;39;11 - 00;58;43;01
Pri
Actually. Fair enough. It wasn't that Duma. Cool. Okay, so should I intro the pod?
00;58;43;02 - 00;58;48;13
Chris
Yeah, let's. Let's let the people know what they've been listening to and then go our separate ways.
00;58;48;18 - 00;59;07;25
Pri
Hey, welcome to Net Society. Today you have me, Chris and Derek talking all things crypto, art, tech, AI and more. Just as a quick reminder, these thoughts and opinions are our own and not of our employer and none of this is financial advice. Let's go.