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Join us as we dive into the world of special education with two educators who have walked the same path as many of you. In addition to teaching in self-contained and collaborative settings, our hosts bring a unique perspective to the challenges and triumphs of raising a special needs child. From classroom strategies to heartfelt family moments, they offer practical advice, empathy, and a community of support. Discover how their personal experiences can shed light on your journey and gain valuable insights into navigating the complexities of special education both in and out of the classroom. Welcome to the tribe!
Speaker 1: welcome back to the
newest episode.
I did it again.
I don't know why I say welcome
back, welcome back to hanging
out, but you haven't been to
this episode yet and you are now
so welcome.
Hello there, all right, maybe
not, so we are continuing our
discussions here on the
unveiling.
Nope, wrong one.
Life in the IEP tribe Did you
do that on purpose?
Speaker 2: No, I promise I
didn't.
I don't know.
Speaker 1: It just like slipped
out of my face Trying to plug.
No, no, I don't want to.
I don't want to.
I don't want to put any more
stress on our listeners.
All right to put any more stress
on our listeners, all right,
but what we are going to do
today it's funny.
I said we're not going to put
any stress on our listeners, but
today's topic of conversation
is one that it's a pretty heavy
topic.
The reason it is is because of
the impact that it has on those
experiencing it, that it has on
those experiencing it and, at
the same time, I think sometimes
that people kind of create or
shape these experiences and not
even realizing what they're
doing.
There's a strong possibility
that there is an adult whether
it's a parent, a teacher,
whatever the case may be an
individual that interacts with
others, and specifically
children in our conversation
that are generating traumatic
experiences and, like I said,
they may not even know.
They may not even know what
they're doing is building on to
this anxiety or fear that a
child already possesses, and so
one of the things that we found
out through research is that
there is a direct correlation.
You can see the impact of
traumatic experience on children
with special needs, and now,
whenever we talk about special
needs, there's a long list.
Whether it's whether it is a
learning disability or a
cognition right, some things
aren't just acting in the
typical manner, and then we have
students that are more profound
, and then we have students that
are more profoundly disabled
and things like that, but all of
these children are open to the
possibility of experiencing
trauma.
So one of the things that I've
read talks about how these
disabilities can kind of play
into that right.
Like if I'm a child that can't
communicate clearly, I can't
speak, I can't share my thoughts
, my interactions with other
people have a higher possibility
of generating trauma in my life
because, although I cannot
express it in words, I feel
trapped inside my own head, I
can't let those around me know
how I feel about specific
experiences or things that are
going on.
And so, with all that said, we
believe that it's a great
opportunity to discuss the
impact of trauma on these
children, on special needs
students, and kind of bring to
the surface an understanding for
teachers and parents alike or
anybody that I mean works in the
community, because what we're
finding is that our special
education, special needs
community is just going to
continue to grow.
Special education, special
needs community is just going to
continue to grow.
The numbers are increasing and
we will come across more people
that possess some sort of
special needs.
So it's important, as we kind
of navigate through life, that
we remember that our actions,
our words.
Remember that our actions, our
words, our deeds impact those
around us.
We may not always see exactly
how, so, laura.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: What do you got for
us?
Speaker 2: What do I got?
Okay, so I know we talked about
this in our last episode.
I think we covered the impact
of trauma on children, trauma on
behavior, talked a little bit
about what trauma is these
adverse childhood experiences,
the gaps in teacher
understanding or other adult
understanding, whether it be,
like you said, other caregivers
or teachers or therapists, or
whatever it may be.
But, as you said, the
identification of children with
special needs is growing and so
is these childhood experiences
that are traumatic.
And apparently that not
apparently, from what I've read
on it is that it's increasing
every year, every year, and that
by the time a child hits 16,
about 66% of children will have
at least one experience that
could be traumatic, especially
since COVID.
And what I found through
research is that more than
150,000 children in the United
States lost a parent during
COVID, and that is one of those
traumatic experiences.
Speaker 1: That's a crazy number
.
Speaker 2: It is.
It's a lot, and we talked about
how it's not always possible to
undo the experience, that we
can move on and it doesn't have
as much of an impact.
However, as you stated,
sometimes we have these, the
children that can't talk about
their experiences, so therapies
may be more difficult Sometimes
if they can't let anybody know
they've had these experiences
and so nobody knows that
something has happened to them,
unless you know.
It's evident, like the loss of
a parent.
But sometimes these children
that face abuse and neglect
can't come to school or can't go
to therapies and tell people
hey, this is what's going on in
my life, and so it makes it
harder for them to deal with
their traumatic experiences.
However, there are ways to help
them if we know what's going on
and, as with diagnosing
children with disabilities, that
early intervention is.
Key is that if you can start
working on these experiences and
working on helping them come to
terms with it and give them
tools to use early, then that's
the key to helping them identify
it and intervene and give them
treatments that help them.
And unfortunately, as you talked
about, our students with
disabilities are more likely to
have these experiences, these
experiences.
However, just because they have
a traumatic experience doesn't
always impact them to the point
where they receive services.
So sometimes having that IEP
allows people to know, okay,
there's more going on.
But sometimes it's not enough
to get them those services and
have people have a document that
they can read oh wow, this
child lost a parent, or you know
this, RIPs don't always talk
about like home life, but
sometimes they do.
But there's not always a
document that comes with the
students that have experienced
trauma to tell us how to work
with them, of experienced trauma
to tell us how to work with
them.
And so, historically, the way
that children with trauma have
been intervened with has been
like a zero tolerance or blanket
policies and no, we just don't
do that.
And that causes a lot more harm
than it does Because, like you
said, if we don't know what's
going on with the student, if we
just punish the behavior
instead of trying to figure out
the function of it and what
they're trying to communicate,
then it does more harm than good
.
Speaker 1: One of the kind of
slogans that we go by is that
behavior is communication.
So, whether or not a kid can
necessarily tell us what's going
on, there are indicators in
behavior that there is something
going on, and I think that one
of the things that I think our
generation came up thinking is
that we want kids to behave,
just to behave, and so what
happens is we tend to punish the
undesired behavior, but what we
need to do and what we need to
put at the forefront of our mind
when dealing with not only
children, but adults for that
matter, is asking the question
what is it that has caused this
individual to believe that this
is the best way to express
themselves?
Now, like we've already said, as
far as kids go, I mean, there's
a good chance they don't even
know what they're expressing,
and so, as parents, as teachers,
as members of a community, we
have a responsibility to look
into the why behind what's going
on, what might be causing that
behavior, be willing to have
those conversations, like in our
case, and have those
conversations with people that
work in the school system with
us, to have those conversations
with principals, assistant
principals, guidance counselors,
so on and so forth, and to kind
of get an idea of what can we
look for.
What is it that really takes
the time to see, what is it that
presents itself prior to the
behavior?
And so what are some things
that we can do, what are some
things that we'd look for, what
are some?
How, how do we, how do we try
to connect with these children,
whether I be a parent again or a
teacher, whatever the case may
be?
How, how do I, what do I look
for in when I'm trying to figure
out how to support the, the
student?
Speaker 2: Um, are you saying,
like, what do we look for as far
as what the children are
presenting or in how to work
with them?
Speaker 1: What would you like
to talk about?
Speaker 2: Well, I believe the
previous episode we covered what
it can do to children, what
things that they might present,
the work with students that may
be presenting behaviors due to
these adverse childhood
experiences, adverse childhood
experiences and some of the
things that in the classroom or
in the therapy session or
services that they can do is
implement some strategies that
are proactive and, instead of
waiting for the behavior to
happen, they can get strategies
to help prevent the behavior.
One key one is build a
relationship with these students
and get to know them.
I think we've talked about that
in other aspects.
I mean that relationship
building and getting to know
them, and I know teachers have
so much on their plate that that
is difficult because they have
a lot that says okay, you have
to do this, do this, do this, do
this and teach, teach, teach,
test, test, test, assess, assess
, assess.
And so it makes it difficult
when you have 20, 25, sometimes
some places, 30 students to get
to know each one, to have that
time to each one, and but that
is one of the best ways that you
can help these students, that
you can show them you're
interested and when they trust
you, they're more likely to.
When they trust you, they're
more likely to be able to
express their needs or be able
to talk about what they've gone
through.
If they're able to communicate
when they know that you care,
they're less likely to present
these behaviors as well.
Another positive tactic or
strategy that they can use peer
groupings.
You take a student that is a
positive role model and pair
them up with one or two other
peers in the classroom and I see
a lot of that peer modeling
that help students, show them
these other students can show
them.
This is what we do.
And then also choices.
We found choices help a lot,
especially in our classrooms,
because a lot of times, students
with disabilities and students
that have these experiences they
feel like they have no control
over their lives and that
everything is dictated for them,
everything is chosen for them
and they're told what to do and
how to do it and when to do it.
So if you offer them some
choices not just whatever you
want to do.
Choices, however, offer choices
that still gives the outcome
that we want, however, but it
gives them some of that control.
Do you want to use the pencil
or do you want to use a marker?
Do you want to do this sheet
first or that sheet first?
You still want them to do the
two sheets.
However, you give them a choice
of what order they do it in.
Do you want to do this before
or after recess?
This has to be done.
When is it going to be done?
Speaker 1: That kind of thing.
When there's more positive
teacher relationships to, you
know, teacher-student
relationships, you end up with
positive outcomes.
Because what we do know is that
traumatic experiences can
happen in a vast amount of ways.
Right, there's, like I said
before, there's some that is
inflicted on others, that they
don't even realize what they're
doing to this other person.
And then there's some people
that are just evil and they do
evil things.
And so let's consider for a
moment being a child whether
it's kindergarten, third grade,
seventh grade, whatever and like
most of us, we can't
necessarily control the things
that are done to us.
Right, we can, we can run from
situations.
We can fight back, we can.
However, we can't control what
somebody else does.
All right.
So now, if I'm a smaller person,
if I'm a smaller child, and I
am afraid I can't fight back, I
can't, like there's nothing I
can do to stop that.
I, in my mind, I have to endure
this and there's nothing I can
do about it.
Then, on top of that, I'm going
to go out into society, in this
case a school, and on top of
not being able to control what
people do to me, I don't even
have a say in what I get to do
so.
I am enslaved to the
decision-making of everybody
else, and now we want you to
behave Like how does that even
make any sense?
When we look at it that way?
I mean, anybody that has half a
brain would agree wow, that's
horrible.
I mean, you don't have to be a
scholar or a rocket scientist to
realize that that situation has
somebody and that child may not
be able to vocalize it, but
they are stuck.
They have no control.
So by doing the things that
you're talking about, well, now
I do have some control in the
things I should be able to
control.
Thank you for allowing me to do
this instead of this, and I
have these options and I have
these choices, instead of just
being told to sit down and be
quiet or sit down and do your
work, or whatever that may be.
And so I think that's another
place that we kind of run into
some difficulty when it comes to
being parents of special needs
children, being teachers of
special needs children, being
administrators in a school that
has special needs children, is
how do we help them develop the
skills that we know will be
beneficial for them moving into
the future, without being too
heavy handed or being a pushover
Like where is that line Right?
You have to have a balance.
So, because what we can't have
is we can't have, especially
with children, we can't have
children that are just, you know
, wheels off all the time and
just leave them alone and be
like, well, just be wheels off,
right, because your life's a
little bit harder than others,
or you're dealing with these
situations and I'm not making
light of those.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: But we're not helping
when we say, well, just act it
out Equally.
We're not helping when we say,
well, just act it out Equally.
We're causing issues when we're
trying to suppress the
expression of the child Right.
Speaker 2: Like you said, there
has to be a balance because I
mean, we found, even with our
children with special needs,
regardless of trauma or not, if
you know, we feel and of course
we're going to empathize and
sympathize with our students.
However, if we don't try to
work to correct it because we
feel sorry for them, we're not
doing them any good and say,
well, you know, I feel bad
because they've had this or they
have this, so I'm going to try
to make life easy on them.
They're gonna grow up and not
everybody's gonna have that same
outlook on on them I.
Speaker 1: I was just looking at
this.
Uh, there's a a chapter in the
palgrave encyclopedia of
disability and it talks about
how developmental trauma and
disability, mental health, how
they all kind of you'll see them
run together because these
children that have these
disabilities are unfortunately
at a higher risk of experiencing
trauma and maltreatment because
they don't always have an
audible voice.
Unfortunately, they end up
around people that are very
do-what-I-say-because-I-say-it
and really not helping the child
move towards what is best for
them.
I just had a conversation the
other day, as a matter of fact,
with somebody and talking about
the importance of the volume of
our voice and how that impacts
students and how they're going
to receive what we're saying.
Because, naturally, when people
are mad at us, they yell at us,
right.
Naturally, when people are mad
at us, they yell at us, right.
And what we don't want to teach
our kids is that, well, you're
in trouble because I'm mad at
you, right, we don't Kids.
Here's just a little side note
If you discipline your kid
because you're mad at them,
that's abuse.
Don't do that, don't do that,
don't do that.
If you're disciplining your
child because you want to see
them become a better member of
society, well, you don't have to
yell at them, right, because
you don't want them to learn
that just because you did
something I don't like, I can
yell at you.
What you want them to learn is
what it is that you want them to
learn, right?
I don't.
I'm not going to yell at a kid
for cussing in our classroom.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Because if I yell at
him, what he's going to realize?
Well, Mr Curtis is mad at me
and because he's mad at me he
can punish me, or he can not
punish me.
I don't do anything to them.
That sounds horrible.
I had this one student one time
I was talking to and he was
very mad at me.
And we're just talking, I'm
trying to get him to understand
the importance of not losing his
mind in the middle of a
classroom, and he just started
saying don't spank me, I'm like
what?
Like we have never had any type
of relationship even close to
that, but and that was just his
way of expressing himself- yeah,
that's I mean.
Speaker 2: When he's in trouble,
that's what happens, and so
that's what he figured.
Well, I'm in trouble, I did
something wrong.
So, this is what's going to
happen.
Well, and once again, that kind
of shows you how kids correlate
people who have authority over
them.
So you know, it makes it
difficult for them to
differentiate what is OK and
what's not OK, because obviously
that child thought that you
have authority over him.
He's in trouble, that that's OK
for you to do.
Yeah, he made me mad, so the
next step is and not saying that
there's anything wrong with if
that's how his parent you know,
if that's how they discipline at
home, that's up to them.
But he figured you know, didn't
, which is one of the reasons
why our kids with disabilities
do end up having these traumatic
experiences, people taking
advantage of them because they
can't differentiate that you
know what is okay, what's not
okay, just like I said side note
there yeah, I like that.
Speaker 1: The only problem with
side notes is I forget where we
were.
Speaker 2: Oh right, yeah, we
get to going down the rabbit
holes.
Um, we're talking about that,
how to help these children to to
deal with these things, and um,
and talking about schools and
how to help them to deal with
them and the behaviors,
communication, and um, instead
of just punishing the behavior,
really need to figure out the
the why of the behavior and try
to determine what works best.
And I think we've also talked
about before what works for one
child doesn't work for the other
child.
Um, you know, we have we have
students that will work hard,
hard, hard so they can get a
desired object.
We have students that will work
hard, hard, hard so they can
get a sticker or a gummy bear,
and so, you know, part of that
relationship building is
learning what works with the
student.
And yes, it's difficult because
, like we said, teachers are
already overworked and have a
lot on them and underprepared.
Speaker 1: We talked about that,
you said in the opening, is
that we have teachers that don't
have the training that they
need.
So what do we do about that?
So what do we do about that?
Like, what do we do about that
as teachers?
What do you do about that as
parents?
What do we do about that as
members of our society, of
really providing a safe place
where students that have
experienced trauma can begin to
heal?
Speaker 2: teachers, mentors,
therapy providers, and helping
us determine what behaviors are
due to trauma responses and what
behaviors are not, and how to
support those students rather
than punish them.
And so it all starts with that
learning where districts and
schools you know if your
district or your school offers a
course on that, a public or a
professional development?
If it's, you know it's one of
those you get to choose from.
Take it and help to identify
some of these behaviors that are
not just a student that is mad
and acting out, that there's
more behind it, and learn some
strategies to work with them.
Like we talked about pairing
students up and options, and
that's really one of the ways.
And also too and this is a hard
one, you know that, as the
adult that, for that time, is in
charge, so to speak, of this
child, we also have to do some
self-reflection.
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
Speaker 2: And you know like,
look at our own social and
emotional skills Mm-hmm, because
we may be going through things
too.
We may have some, you know,
responses that are due to some
of the experiences we've had.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: And so we have to
take that look and say, okay, am
I responding in this way
because of something I've gone
through and okay, why am I
yelling?
Why am I letting this get to me
and that need for control in
our life, what is that from?
So that's probably one of the
most difficult aspects of all of
this is to figure out what our
responses are and how to deal
with it that that student do 20
multiplication facts when you
know they know their
multiplication facts.
Speaker 1: If they can show you
with 10, does it need to be 20?
If they?
Can show you with 5, does it
need to be 20?
Speaker 2: Right.
So you know, pick, pick, choose
, choose your battles, and we've
also had that fair and equal
conversation.
We've also had that fair and
equal conversation.
If looking at a page of 20
multiplication facts spins this
child out of control, is it that
important?
But you don't have to let
everybody else in the class not
do their work Right.
You can take that paper and say
, okay, fold it in half.
Even if you can do that too,
the way you present it, fold it
in half, or fold it in quarters
and have them flip it.
So then it's not so overbearing
.
So those are some things I
think, as the adult in these
children's lives, that we need
to focus on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the only
thing that I would want to add
to that is feel free to contact
your board of education in your
district, ask questions, you
know, give ideas.
One of the things that we've
experienced in our district is
that we've had the opportunity
to sit down with the decision
makers that are at the top of
that pyramid, and they have not
only listened to us but
appreciate what we bring to the
table, because it's all about
the kids.
How do we help the kids become?
It's not just how do we get
them to pass tests, but how do
we get them to be, help them
become members of society that
want to make a difference, that
want to care about others, that
care about where they are, that
care about their families.
Right, we want to see the whole
child become somebody that will
support the community that they
live in.
And so, yeah, reach out, reach
out to your district, make phone
calls, shoot emails.
Speaker 2: Start with your
guidance counselors and your
school social workers.
And hey, I have something going
on in my classroom with this
student.
Speaker 1: Maybe could you come
observe, Because the counselors
and social workers, they're
trained to identify this, and as
parents I mean parents call
Right Like connect with as many
people as you can, because it
seems that when we, as human
beings, work together, we get
more things done.
Speaker 2: Right as parents.
There's nothing wrong with
taking your child to get some
therapy, and even if they can't
express what's going on and I
don't know if we've talked about
it before with Xander going on,
and I don't know if we've
talked about before with xander
xander was going through an
emotional time and he couldn't
express to us what was going on,
but he would have these
emotions, flood of emotions,
that would change by the second,
and so we took him to play
therapy and through that, his
therapist was able to help us
understand what was going on,
because that's what he's trained
to do.
We're not right, we're parents,
we're not, we weren't, we're
not therapists, and and there's
and there's, I know there's a
stigma behind that there's
nothing wrong with getting your
child as much help as you oh,
absolutely not, yeah um and so
if your child is presenting
these behaviors and you don't
know why, contact a therapist
and see and see if a child
therapist, a play therapist, and
hopefully they can give you
some insight there.
Speaker 1: Well, I think we're
going to wrap this one up All
right.
I feel like this conversation
may continue in the future.
We'll see.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: But hey, if you have
any ideas and or subject matter
that you would love to talk to
us about or hear us talk about,
or you know, whatever the case
may be, some topics that are
important in your life, please
contact us at life, in the IEP
tribe, at gmailcom.
You can find us on the
Facebooks, and that's pretty
much where we spend most of our
time.
But, yeah, contact us, let us
know what's up and we would love
to hear from you and continue
these conversations.
So until next time, take care,
bye.