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Welcome to Unrolled, the show where we unroll the stories, science, and culture of cannabis. Whether you’re canna-curious or a connoisseur, you’re in the right place.
Dave Lisowski: You know what's crazy
is if I didn't know and it didn't come
in this fucking container like this,
I would not know that this is THC.
I would just be like, oh, this
is like quartz or something.
Like,
Jack Rhoads: it just looks
like it looks like a crystal.
Dave Lisowski: I'm not gonna
be able to get it on camera
'cause it's so like small.
Yeah.
And you know, but like.
And it's probably not gonna focus
if it's close up either, but Okay.
That's insane.
Jack Rhoads: Yeah.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Maybe, maybe.
Let's see, we, we can cut that.
It's there.
No, no.
You think I'm gonna cut
this after the fact?
Welcome to Unrolled.
The show where we unroll the stories,
science and culture of cannabis.
Whether you're cannacurious or
connoisseur, you're in the right place.
Let's get into it.
I'm here.
With you boys.
We're rolling up right now.
Yes, sir. And we just did
our little photo shoot.
And this is so foreign to me as someone
who, who doesn't smoke, who has been
rapidly learning about all of this,
um, from, from, you know, being part
of this and just unrolling all of it.
You guys started to explain to me
how this all works, the differences,
the way that things burn.
The way that, like how it
can go wrong, how it can go
well, all the different ways.
Like, dude, I was just fascinated.
I'm like, I need to, I need to stop,
I need to start rolling right now.
'cause this is perfect for unrolled.
So like, dude, explain to me the
fact that you can have a thousand
different rollers and there could
be a thousand different approaches
to it and they could all be right.
Like, how does that work?
Jay: So I guess every artist.
It is different, right?
They can paint the same canvas and
their hand stroke is different.
The pressure they apply is
different and everything.
Everybody's human, everybody's different.
Even though they're achieving the same
end goal, there's different ways to
attack it and I guess that's how like I
look at it is everybody's different, but
there's still the one main end goal and
it's rolling the best joint, the best
smoke, the taste best tastiest joint,
and the best experience while smoking.
That's how I look at it.
Jack Rhoads: I agree.
Dave Lisowski: Jack agrees.
Jay: I do agree.
I do agree.
Dave Lisowski: Jack's locked in right now.
Yes,
Jay: I am.
Dave Lisowski: Jack's, Jack's Picasso
over here doing his thing right now.
Well, dude, you were saying too,
like if you pack it too tightly
Jack Rhoads: Yeah,
Dave Lisowski: yeah, it'll look nice.
Jack Rhoads: Mm-hmm.
Dave Lisowski: But it's,
it's gonna be like a brick.
Jack Rhoads: Yeah.
Dave Lisowski: Right?
Jack Rhoads: It will.
So like you're taking plant material
that's essentially fluffy, right.
And you're compressing it.
The more you compress it,
the more even it should burn.
Like, you know, you have less
air space, less air pocket that
you can hit and like die out.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: If you compress it too
much, though you have no airflow,
so there's no oxygen going into that
product to pull the combustion in.
So it'll essentially just die out.
It won't stay lit. It'll like
start running on the one side.
You'll notice it'll like flare up on
you sometimes if it's packed too tight.
Like there's a lot of different things
that cause it to be packed too tight.
A lot.
Like a lot of times if you get
like a pre-roll off the shelf.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: They just put it in like a
giant box smothered with product and like
Dave Lisowski: tap, tap,
Jack Rhoads: tap, tap, tap, tap,
tap, tap to it looks packed.
Dave Lisowski: Interesting.
Jack Rhoads: Not every run's the same.
You never know what's gonna be
two packed and not packed enough.
Like I've had ones where I pull
it outta the tube and it's like
falling out and I've had ones
where like I white it and I'm like.
I'm trying to like get something.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
It's like there's that fine line in
between, not enough and too much.
Jay: Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: And it can
go wrong pretty quick.
So like you have to go by feel.
Jay: Yes.
Jack Rhoads: I don't know.
Like I can feel when this is compression
enough, like when it feels like I can't
push it anymore, I don't force it.
I just kind like, just
finger pressure, you
Dave Lisowski: know?
Well, there's like a human
touch to it that you guys are
able to do 'cause you feel it.
Correct.
Dave Lisowski: But I know there's a
lot of machines that just do this,
that like you're ranking out volume.
Jack Rhoads: Yeah.
So if you look at like.
Like a roll.
Pro roll pro machines are great because
they do, they simulate like a hand roll.
Okay.
It's like an even, it's not a
cone shape, it's a straight roll.
Like a cigarette stock.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: What's nice about
those is in theory, they should
roll even across the board versus
like a cone that like funnels down.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: Um, but sometimes if
you put too much product in there,
it rolls too tight in the paper.
Like certain papers are designed for
certain sizes, if that makes sense.
Dave Lisowski: Okay.
Jack Rhoads: So.
This is a king size wide paper.
Dave Lisowski: Okay.
Jack Rhoads: See how,
like how wide that is?
Dave Lisowski: Sure.
Jack Rhoads: This is a king size slim.
Mm-hmm.
You look at the difference.
Dave Lisowski: Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
See how much you've got
another like centimeter on,
Jack Rhoads: right?
Dave Lisowski: It's still on there,
Jack Rhoads: right?
For your width length is the same.
It's 110 millimeters, but
it's 53 versus um, 55.
Dave Lisowski: Got it.
Jack Rhoads: So you're like just shy.
But then you also have like these
guys, the one and a quarter.
Dave Lisowski: Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: What's cool about
these is these are like your small,
like look at that.
Dave Lisowski: Oh yeah.
It's a tiny guy right there.
Mm-hmm.
All
Jack Rhoads: right.
You compare 'em, you know what I mean?
Like, yeah,
Dave Lisowski: yeah, yeah.
Jack Rhoads: And then if you compare
that to the, the king size wide.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah, you got,
Jack Rhoads: you have
Dave Lisowski: small footprint
Jack Rhoads: right there.
You have plenty more room.
Yeah.
Like this would be good for like a half
gram small, little like cigarette size.
Okay.
You know what I mean?
Yeah,
Dave Lisowski: yeah,
Jack Rhoads: yeah.
And then this is gonna be like for
what we use for your larger big
Dave Lisowski: horse.
Jack Rhoads: Yeah,
Dave Lisowski: yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: I mean, you can probably
put like three grams in here, maybe
more if you grind it fine enough.
God.
So there's the wa that goes
into it that you need to know.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
It, it's not as simple as just like.
Crush it.
Roll it.
Jack Rhoads: It can be.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: Um,
Dave Lisowski: so like,
but there's levels to this?
Jack Rhoads: There is, there is.
Okay.
So like for myself, if I'm just
rowing for myself, it doesn't matter.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: As long as it burns decent.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: You know what I mean?
And I'm just like, okay.
Like.
I don't need to be precise
every time, but I still am.
Dave Lisowski: Alright.
Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: Like I still take my time.
Like I can't just roll up a joint
for myself in a couple minutes.
Like I still take time to put the
effort into it because I would savor,
Dave Lisowski: it's like, yeah, it's
like you're cooking yourself a meal.
It's like, yeah, you could just
heat something up or like you
can, you can care enough to do it.
Right.
Maybe it's not gonna be the same degree if
you're like trying to win a Michelin star.
Right.
But you're
Jack Rhoads: like,
Dave Lisowski: I want this to be good.
I'm going through the time to make it.
I may as well enjoy it.
Jack Rhoads: Exactly.
Dave Lisowski: Okay.
All right.
Interesting.
And you, so like how does the technique
change if you're just making something
for yourself real quick versus like,
something, something real nice.
Jay: Um,
Dave Lisowski: does it change
Jay: To me, it shouldn't.
Dave Lisowski: Okay.
Jay: You should always practice your
best work, and even if it's just for
yourself, you should satisfy yourself
just like you would satisfy a customer.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jay: And why, why drop down the level?
For yourself.
If you're rolling the same quality
every day, getting better, who?
Who's it matter who you're rolling for.
Dave Lisowski: Makes
Jay: sense.
The quality's getting better.
Jack Rhoads: The only thing I usually
change when it's for myself versus
like somebody else is the tip.
Yeah.
So like for me, if I'm just sitting
at home, I'll just use a paper tip,
Dave Lisowski: okay's
Jack Rhoads: cheap and you
know, it doesn't really like.
Dave Lisowski: So explain to me
the difference of the, of the tips.
'cause we were kind of talking about this
in, in a podcast the other day, and I
think we went down a different tangent.
I don't think we actually
think Dave started talking
about like, dab technology.
Um, but, but yeah.
Explain the difference
of like tips for me.
Jack Rhoads: So, Jay, do you
have glass tips with him?
I do.
So Jay has glass, I have wood tips here.
Dave Lisowski: He has a glass,
Jack Rhoads: so he's got a glass tip here.
Dave Lisowski: And there's
multiple forms of glass clips.
Jack Rhoads: There is.
Okay.
So like this is a spiraled glass tip.
That's pretty
Dave Lisowski: cool.
Jack Rhoads: You can see the spirals.
Jay: Yes.
The little
Dave Lisowski: holes.
Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: What that does?
Is when you draw in on that,
it makes the air vortex.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: Essentially cooling
down the smoke as you bring it in
so you can bring in more smoke.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: It also allows the smoke
to cool down before it hits your lungs,
so it's an easier, less harsh hit.
Yep.
But it's also easier on the joint itself
because as you're smoking it, you're
not pulling super, super hard on it.
You have a nice solid airflow if you
overheat and infuse joint like this.
Yeah.
It just goes south quick.
Dave Lisowski: Okay.
All right, so you got the glass
spiral tip right there, right?
You got wood tips.
Jack Rhoads: So wood tips are just cheap.
Dave Lisowski: Okay.
Jack Rhoads: They're
cheap, they're effective.
It's a hollow wood tip.
It's, it's organic and biodegradable.
Yeah.
Jay: So if you don't feel bad
about throwing the joint away.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: Right.
Jay: It'll break down.
Dave Lisowski: Nice.
Jay: That
Dave Lisowski: makes sense.
Jay: You don't like about cars
under, over, running it, over
glass, all that kind of thing.
Makes sense.
Jack Rhoads: You see their hollow.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Jack Rhoads: So like.
Obviously if you put this together
right now with product inside mm-hmm.
You open it up, you take a
hit, you're gonna suck all
that product into your mouth.
There's nothing in there
to like buffer that
Dave Lisowski: brush filters,
Jack Rhoads: which is where these
little filter papers come in.
So like I'll use one for this example.
I usually use like two or three
depending on like how fine I
grind the flour, what's in it.
Because
Jay: also affect your
Jack Rhoads: airflow.
It changes airflow.
Those
Jay: are the paper you put in.
Now the more blockage you have, there's
Dave Lisowski: levels to this.
Jack Rhoads: Yeah, so like some, so
depending on the flower, like if I know
the Flo, how the flower smokes, I can be
like, okay, this flower smokes like this.
I'm only gonna use two
papers inside this tip.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: Or like I have flour that I'm
like, this stuff burns a little quicker.
I want three.
Just to knock that, just to restrict that
airflow a little bit so you don't suck
it down too fast to overheat it, burn it.
Dave Lisowski: Got it.
Okay.
So, but the glass spiral tip.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
You don't need a filter?
Nope.
Jack Rhoads: Okay.
Mm. Nope.
'cause it's already,
it's already like spiral.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: Does that make sense?
Dave Lisowski: Yep.
Jack Rhoads: So,
Jay: but there's, they do
make the same hollow glass.
Yeah.
Okay.
And you will need a filter of some
Jack Rhoads: sort
Jay: in there.
Jack Rhoads: Yeah.
Yeah.
And you can buy 'em with filters
already in 'em, like they have the
papers already in there for you.
And that's, you know, it just
adds a little more expense to it.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
And, and I guess you get less control
if there's a filter already in there.
Like you're saying, you know, this
flower burns faster than you're
working with what's already in there.
Jack Rhoads: So like essentially you
take that little paper and you just
Jay: fold
Jack Rhoads: it
Jay: accordion style.
Jack Rhoads: Obviously there'd
be like two of these in here and
then you just place it in here.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
It makes sense.
'cause I, I expect, I saw it earlier when,
when I was taking the photos and then I've
seen it like in other photos or, or just
stuff that, you know, you've showed me.
Jack Rhoads: Yeah.
And like, so these are just, now
Dave Lisowski: it makes sense.
Jack Rhoads: The, the ones
I'm doing now are just for me.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: So like, I'm just
using a regular paper tip and
I'm just gonna roll a normal
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: Little joint with it.
Dave Lisowski: Did you
intentionally do like a pot plant?
Like
Jack Rhoads: No, but it just came.
It just came out that way, didn't it?
Dave Lisowski: That's pretty cool.
Jack Rhoads: Yeah.
Yeah, it just came out that way.
Dave Lisowski: Nice.
Jack Rhoads: But yeah, I mean, I buy 'em.
You buy 'em by the book, like I have,
Dave Lisowski: yeah.
Jack Rhoads: Stacks of here.
Dave Lisowski: It was just cool seeing
you walk into and like, let me break
down my little workshop right here.
Like,
Jack Rhoads: yeah, like
you'll notice like I use.
D element wide papers, Uhhuh.
I have packs of them in here.
We buy 'em by the case.
I have Bob Marley papers in here.
I have vibes.
Jay: The different papers
also are different material.
Jack Rhoads: Yep.
Jay: Some are unbleached, some are
bleached so that they're white.
Okay.
So depending on the smoker, they
might not want a bleach paper.
Jack Rhoads: Yeah.
Dave Lisowski: What would, what would
the difference be between a bleach then?
Un bleached paper
Jack Rhoads: Unbleached is more natural.
Jay: More natural.
So like smoking don't.
I haven't noticed a difference personally.
Mm-hmm.
Some people will say
that you can taste it.
Some people will say there's
just, it burns different.
Jack Rhoads: Yeah.
Jay: Personally I haven't,
but do you want wood papers?
Jack Rhoads: Mm-hmm.
Jay: Do you want hemp papers?
Jack Rhoads: Mm-hmm.
Jay: Do you, uh, what's rice papers?
Jack Rhoads: Rice, which
is what the elements are.
Which
Jay: elements are rice?
Jack Rhoads: Elements are rice.
Mm-hmm.
So like.
Rice.
The element papers burned so clean.
There's no ash left.
The only ash that you have is the
ash from your actual product itself.
There's no paper ash.
Jay: Wow.
Jack Rhoads: They use a natural sugar
gum line, so like when you burn this
gum line, it caramelizes, it doesn't
burn like a chemical would burn.
Dave Lisowski: Interesting.
Jack Rhoads: So it's literally
like taking sugar from your house.
And just mixing in with a little bit of
water and that's how they make the go.
Dave Lisowski: Wow.
Jack Rhoads: So it's all natural.
It's like the rice papers are one
of the thinnest papers you can get.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: Which leads
to a slower burn time.
Right.
Which leads to a more,
uh, flavorful experience.
Yeah.
Less paper taste.
Super, super, super thin.
Like when you're done, like you can
almost see the product through it.
Dave Lisowski: I You totally can.
You know what I mean?
That that's, that's why when I said to you
earlier, I'm like, this looks like art.
Yeah.
And like this is cool
Jack Rhoads: and like raw elements.
Um, they're manufactured by
raw, they're the same company.
Yep.
It's all, um,
Dave Lisowski: got
Jack Rhoads: it all in the same,
you know, like manufacture,
they have the same standards.
Raw is one of the best in the business.
Dave Lisowski: I was gonna say that's
e even for someone like me, like,
you know that name, you know that
Jack Rhoads: logo?
So like raw, raw blacks?
Yeah.
Are their thinner more?
Mm-hmm.
Um.
I would say more like organic.
Yeah.
And then you have the, uh,
Jay: ethereal,
Jack Rhoads: the Ethereums.
Okay.
They're even thinner.
Wow.
Jay: They are the thinnest that they make.
Yeah.
And they are literally
and non bleached at that.
Dave Lisowski: Okay.
Jack Rhoads: So
Jay: they're
Jack Rhoads: like, they're natural hemp.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Oh, that's
Jack Rhoads: cool.
But they're super, super thin.
Yeah.
Just like these elements
are, the elements are rice.
Jay: And then I got the
phantoms here that are the rice.
Jack Rhoads: Yeah, the phantoms are the
rice and these are like super, super thin.
Wow.
They're almost translucent.
Jay: Jesus.
Jack Rhoads: And I'm like, I have Bob.
You don't even know you're
Jay: smoking
Jack Rhoads: anything.
No, I have the Bob Marey,
which are just hemp.
Yeah, they're just unbleached
Dave Lisowski: hemp.
Yep.
Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: But paper
thickness plays a role too.
Like Oh, I can imagine.
Thin papers are super hard to roll.
Jay: Yes.
You had
Jack Rhoads: to.
Very delicate.
You have to be very
careful, very delicate.
Like, you'll rip 'em, you'll tear 'em.
Yeah.
Um, if your hands are just the
tiniest bit sticky or like,
Dave Lisowski: oh, I bet
Jack Rhoads: as you're rolling, you know,
your hands get old, sweat, sweaty, sweaty,
Jay: spammy.
Jack Rhoads: If you, it might
grip that paper up and tear it.
Jay: Yep.
Jack Rhoads: These are like,
now, like they make a strong
Jay: paper.
Jack Rhoads: Paper.
Like it's, you know what I mean?
It's a strong paper.
It's just like,
Dave Lisowski: but still I can imagine
Jack Rhoads: like the finesse.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah,
Jack Rhoads: the finesse.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Damn.
Jack Rhoads: Yeah.
Jay: And with rolling,
it really does take time.
Yeah.
Like anybody can roll a joint and it
smokes, but then it's the time of figuring
out what works, what doesn't for yourself
and for other people that, that's really
Jack Rhoads: certain people, like
certain amount of airflow, like I know
I like a little bit tighter airflow.
Yeah.
Than a, than a more open airflow.
Jay: Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: Um.
I feel like you get a
nice, like dense, um,
Jay: thicker smoke.
Jack Rhoads: Yeah.
Like a nice dense smoke.
Jay: Okay.
Jack Rhoads: More flavor.
I feel like the effects are a little
bit better than like a airy smoke and
airy smoke burns hotter, in my opinion.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: I translate
this to like smoking cigars.
Dave Lisowski: Okay.
Jack Rhoads: Yep.
So like, if you've ever smoked
a cigar, um, you know that
there's a proper way to light it.
Mm-hmm.
There's a proper way to like smoke it.
You don't just like sit there and like hit
it with a cigarette, you know what I mean?
You're not like.
Just chiefing on it the entire time.
You're taking nice, slow, intentional.
Mm-hmm.
Fools on that.
Mm-hmm.
Letting it rest for a
couple seconds in between.
Yeah.
Holding it down.
Like people, people hold 'em up.
They wanna hold 'em like this.
Jay: And Oh,
Jack Rhoads: that's the thing
that's gonna stop hurting.
Right.
So it burns, it makes it burn uneven.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: You have your,
like your resin or your, you
know is like coming down.
Yeah.
And then the flame's like hitting it.
Yeah.
So it just makes it start to run when
you hit that if you hold it downward.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: It helps to vaporize
that before it even has a
chance to like res up on you.
Jay: Well, so that's where I
would say from my experience
and rolling a lot of hash holes.
You're not supposed to hold
the hash hole this way.
Jack Rhoads: Yeah.
Jay: At all.
Dave Lisowski: Okay.
Why is that?
Jay: Because the Cherry's a lot
hotter than everything else.
Jack Rhoads: Yep.
Jay: It'll boil and bake that rosin.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jay: And it'll clog up
before you even enjoy it.
Dave Lisowski: Wow.
Jay: So, because heat rises.
Okay.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jay: So if the Cherry's the
hottest part and it's above it.
Jack Rhoads: Yep.
Jay: Now you're actually
vaporizing just like a Puff Co.
That's where like,
Dave Lisowski: yeah,
Jack Rhoads: you have
to know the difference.
Like in a normal flower role.
That's one thing.
Yeah.
But in a hash hole, you can, you have a,
you have a li, like a concentrate that
turns the liquid when heated inside.
So you have to keep that in
mind too, when you're burning,
like if the roll's not right.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: It'll go through the paper.
Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: And then you have a hotspot
in your paper where it'll burn through.
Yeah.
But that's like, I've seen
that happen where people will
hold a hash hole like this.
Yeah.
And then the concentrate
will drip out of the end.
Mm-hmm.
Because it's just like.
Dave Lisowski: Holy
Jack Rhoads: shit.
You know, it's just like
Jay: clog up to the point where then you
hit it and it is a brick because it's
now turned all that goop into a solid
Dave Lisowski: Wow.
You're just blocking,
Jay: blocking everything,
all the air flow, everything.
Jack Rhoads: Wow.
Damn.
Yeah.
So that's like where, where you have
to know the difference in like flour.
Yeah.
And then like a hash or like
some sort of other infused joint.
'cause diamonds are the same way.
Jay: Right.
Jack Rhoads: A diamond infused
product is going to liquefy the
diamonds as you combust 'em.
Mm-hmm.
When that happens, if you're holding it
downwards, it's gonna weak out of the end.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: Losing that infusion
that you paid good money for.
Dave Lisowski: I've always, so I actually
don't know what, like, I've always
heard diamonds or diamond refused.
I actually, I assumed it
was something similar to
Jack Rhoads: like, you know how,
you know how diamonds are created?
Dave Lisowski: No.
Heat
Jack Rhoads: and pressure.
I mean, I mean regular, like yes.
Okay.
Yes I do.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: You take
carbon, you take carbon.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: You compress it under
a lot of heat, a lot of pressure.
You get it done,
Dave Lisowski: it becomes
this beautiful thing.
Jack Rhoads: So THC diamonds
are essentially the same thing
you take, you take a a product.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: You compress it
under a lot of heat and pressure.
Yeah.
And what you get is a 99.9% pure.
Jay: Crystallized
Jack Rhoads: crystallized form of
THC, no flavor, no nothing to it.
There's no, you're not gonna taste it
and be like, wow, this tastes like weed.
Sure.
Jay: Now
Jack Rhoads: a lot of companies
Jay: will add back
flavors and terpenes and
Dave Lisowski: Okay.
Jay: To get their different
trainings in that way.
Jack Rhoads: It's just
highly, highly potent.
THC in a crystallized form.
Jay: Wow.
Jack Rhoads: You can put
it in there like in chunks.
You can crush it up into dust.
You can coat it on the outside.
You can do like, there's
so much whatever you
Dave Lisowski: want with it.
Jack Rhoads: Pretty much.
There's a lot, there's a
lot you can do with it.
Dave Lisowski: Okay.
Jack Rhoads: Okay.
Uh, it's just another added
infusion that adds a boost of.
99.9% pure
Dave Lisowski: wow.
Jack Rhoads: Product into your,
Dave Lisowski: so what would be like
the, the difference, I guess, in the
experience or, or the burn or even rolling
of a hole versus a diamond infused?
Jack Rhoads: Diamond infused, in
my opinion, or a little harsher?
Um,
Dave Lisowski: harsher.
Jack Rhoads: Harsher, um,
both effect wise and like.
Uh, while you're smoking it.
Dave Lisowski: Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: I feel like
they taste a little harsher.
Yeah, they're a little, 'cause there's
no like, flavoring to 'em, so it's
just more like straightforward.
Dave Lisowski: Got it.
Okay.
Jack Rhoads: Um, also potency.
Like it is pure THC.
So when you, when you hit
that, you're like, oof,
Dave Lisowski: what's this?
Uh, oh, here we go.
Let's,
Jack Rhoads: this is, this is diamonds.
There you go.
He's got diamond.
Dave Lisowski: That, that's insane.
Jack Rhoads: Right?
Dave Lisowski: There's
smells like nothing.
Jack Rhoads: Smells like nothing.
Dave Lisowski: But that's
literally like a crystal, correct?
Mm-hmm.
You know what's crazy is if I
didn't know and it didn't come in
this fucking container like this,
I would not know that this is PHC.
I would just be like, oh, this
is like quartz or something.
Like,
Jack Rhoads: it just looks like
a, it looks like a crystal.
Dave Lisowski: I'm not gonna
be able to get it on camera
'cause it's so like small.
Yeah.
And you know, but like, and
it's probably not gonna focus if
it's close up either, but it's
Jack Rhoads: okay.
Dave Lisowski: That's insane.
Jack Rhoads: Yeah.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Maybe, maybe.
Let's see.
Jack Rhoads: We, we can cut that.
Dave Lisowski: It's there.
No, you think I'm gonna
cut this after the fact?
Jack Rhoads: Um,
Dave Lisowski: that's, uh, that's crazy.
Okay.
Wow.
Jack Rhoads: So it makes
a, it makes a difference.
Mm-hmm.
As far like, if you're using
quality rosin in a hash hole.
Yeah.
Like Jay is, is more, he can
elaborate better on this.
He uses some of the best
Ros I've ever smelled.
Like this is some, just take a, just
smell it and let me know what you think.
Dave Lisowski: That smells
Jay: really
Dave Lisowski: nice.
Jack Rhoads: Yeah.
Dave Lisowski: Wow.
Damn.
Jay: But that's the thing.
That's so that's pure, uh,
right out of the plant.
They, but this is all,
uh, natural process.
Okay.
That use, it's all water.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jay: And pressure compared the
diamonds where they'll use a synthetic
process sometimes and make diamonds.
And that's the consumer's point of
view is, is it manmade with chemicals
or some kind of machinery, or is it.
Handmade Manmade.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jay: By doing it yourself.
Yeah,
Dave Lisowski: yeah,
Jay: yeah.
Using all natural processes like water
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jay: That come from the land.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jay: Good old arm work.
Dave Lisowski: Yep.
Jay: Versus putting it in the synthetic
machine, getting a lab to do it.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jay: So a a lot of it comes down to that.
Dave Lisowski: Mm-hmm.
Jay: But also, like you
said, you can smell it.
Yeah.
You can, you can taste it.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jay: The, the flavor translates a
hundred times better through rosins and.
Live concentrates than
it does the diamonds.
And Interesting that,
Dave Lisowski: yeah.
Damn.
Jay: All right.
Dave Lisowski: Mm-hmm.
That's crazy.
Jay: So what does this consumer want?
Yeah.
At the end of the day, what also
you have to look at like factor.
Jack Rhoads: Diamonds
are great for potency.
Dave Lisowski: Yes.
Jack Rhoads: If you want a super
quick high, a super quick like
Jay: mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: Burst.
Mm-hmm.
Diamonds are great.
They hit really, really
hard, really, really fast.
Mm-hmm.
They wear off really fast.
Dave Lisowski: Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: There's no terpene
in them to carry 'em through,
so you have a sharp rise in THC,
like concentration in the blood.
Dave Lisowski: Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: You shoot up,
Dave Lisowski: yeah,
Jack Rhoads: you're high for like
20 minutes, 30 minutes maybe, and
then you shoot right back down.
You're like, damn.
Not cry anymore.
Yeah.
Or you end up with a headache afterwards
because you're like, it's too quick.
Dave Lisowski: It's Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: Where like, where Rosin
still has the terpenes preserved in it.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: Those terpenes
create that entourage effect.
So you have the THC working, but you
have the terpenes working in tandem.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Wow.
Jack Rhoads: So like you, you
kinda like, you slow cruise up.
Jay: Yeah.
Dave Lisowski: Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: And you're
like, damn, this is nice.
You hit that high and you like
plateau for a couple hours.
Yeah.
Jay: Wow.
And then you slowly come back
Jack Rhoads: down.
Jay: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: And then you're
like, yeah, it was nice.
It's like a nice like journey.
Okay.
Versus like a super quick short move.
Jay: Yeah.
Hot.
You truly get to enjoy and
experience the full effects.
Jack Rhoads: I feel like
Rosin is more for the rosins.
For the connoisseur.
Mm-hmm.
Rosin is equivalent to like.
Cigars and fine whiskey.
You know what I mean?
It's got, it's that like,
Dave Lisowski: and like
Jack Rhoads: diamonds
Dave Lisowski: are like
crushing buzz balls.
Jack Rhoads: Pretty much.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Pretty much.
Like,
Jack Rhoads: okay, you,
you go to, you go to a bar.
Yeah.
You have two options.
Yeah.
You have PBR and a 16 ounce can.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: Or you have like.
A Johnny Walker Blue Label.
Dave Lisowski: I mean,
Jack Rhoads: you know what I mean?
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: Both at the same price.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
And
Jay: there the consumer for both.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Right.
I was gonna say, sometimes,
sometimes I'm the consumer for both
Jack Rhoads: the, if the price
of diamonds compared to the price
of rosin, they're identical.
Really.
You can get diamonds for the
same price as you can get.
You can get a, a halfway
decent Graham rozen.
Dave Lisowski: You know what I mean?
It's kind of cool knowing,
knowing that it's just come
down to preference and choice.
Yes.
Jack Rhoads: Pretty much.
Right.
You can get.
They make diamonds in like a sauce.
So it's in like a turp sauce.
So it's crystallized diamonds that
they just break up in littler pieces.
Dave Lisowski: Interesting.
Jack Rhoads: And they put it
inside of a terpene based sauce.
So you're still getting
that flavor from the plant?
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: Wow.
And the potency of the diamond.
Mm-hmm.
You know what I mean?
There's, and that's like, mm-hmm.
That's just another way to.
Kind of give the consumer what they want.
Like people create these products,
they, they find ways to make new.
Yeah.
Jay: And also from concoctions
a production standpoint,
one's gonna cost more.
Jack Rhoads: Yep.
Jay: To produce, like rosin, you only,
some plants only get a 3% yield on Rosin.
Wow.
So if you put a pound in
there, you're only getting a
3% of that batch in deposit.
So you're losing a lot of money.
So they have to charge a higher
compared to a synthetic way.
Light diamonds or other processes
where you might get a 25 to 30% yield.
Dave Lisowski: Wow.
That's a big difference.
Jay: It is.
Especially in a profit margin
perspective from the manufacturer.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: If you, if you look at like
the way New Jersey regulates mm-hmm.
Like the, the sales of, um, concentrates.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: Every four
grams equals an ounce.
So every four grams of
concentrate equals 28 grams.
Wow.
Of flour.
Dave Lisowski: Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: So essentially what
they're claiming is it takes seven
grams a quarter ounce of flour
to produce one gram of rasin.
Mm-hmm.
So in order to get one
little jar of this, yeah.
You need.
Two jars of this.
Mm-hmm.
Wow.
Jay: And that might
Jack Rhoads: be to compress
it down or like a, a, a
vaporizer, you know what I mean?
This is one gram.
Dave Lisowski: Right.
Jack Rhoads: It took seven
grams of flour to make this
Dave Lisowski: right,
Jack Rhoads: when you think about it.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and when you put it in
that way, I mean, it's crazy
'cause you can visualize it,
Jack Rhoads: right.
Dave Lisowski: You know, you,
Jack Rhoads: you're, you're taking
seven grams and putting it down
into one little gram of concentrate.
Dave Lisowski: I mean,
Jack Rhoads: which is why it's called
Dave Lisowski: concentrate
Jack Rhoads: concentrated.
You know what
Dave Lisowski: I mean?
I always figured that.
But like visualizing it makes
it so much more real, you know?
Jay: And that's the thing too.
The different plants and genetics
produce different percentage rates
of how much they're gonna wash.
Like a Skittles strain is like a 2%, 3%.
Jack Rhoads: Yep.
Jay: Versus.
A lot of the strains, like the
fruity strains that people grow,
papayas, papayas and stuff like that.
Um,
Jack Rhoads: anything that's like Yeah.
Anything that's like real fruity.
Jay: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: They're
usually your higher washes.
Jay: Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: Um,
Dave Lisowski: why is that?
Jay: Genetic makeup really okay.
And people have found now that
sungrown is better for ro rosin
making because it produces more
trichome, uh, heads versus indoor LED.
But the whole five years ago was.
Endures the best.
Yeah, endures the best way to do it.
Jack Rhoads: So, and, and
here's, it just depends I guess,
Jay: on what want, here's
where, what are you growing for?
Jack Rhoads: Here's where
a lot comes into play.
So I read, I read a lot of books
on like organic gardening mm-hmm.
And a lot of books on like cannabis.
I have books that, I have a book
that I bought that literally goes
into every single makeup of all, all
of the thousands of different, like
chemicals inside the cannabis plant.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: So one of the
things that it says is.
Sungrown, outdoor grown cannabis will
produce more terpene, which makes in like
what it translates to is more flavor.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: So sungrown, if you
grow outdoor, your terpene content is
higher because it naturally produces
terpenes to ward off predators.
Mm-hmm.
Bugs.
Uh, birds, like anything
that's going to eat that plant.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: So like, like Laine.
Laine.
Mm-hmm.
We recognize that from citrus fruits.
Dave Lisowski: Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: Yes.
We're like, yeah, citrus.
Man, this tastes so good.
This was like refreshing, but like insects
are like, oh my God, this is overpowering.
Like I can't deal with this.
They're like, um, lavender.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: Rappels like mosquitoes and
like aphids and all that kinda stuff.
Like it's a naturally occurring
Dave Lisowski: mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: Uh, terpene within the plant.
But if, if you grow indoor, the plant's
not stressed in an environment where
it has to produce mass amounts of that.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: Where outdoor, it does
aren there you're naturally stressing
the plant and it's naturally reli.
It has to like, go back to, it's like.
Ancestral roots.
It has to survive off of the nutrients
in the ground, the water that it
receives, the sun that it receives,
like you can, however it can get there.
You can control lighting
if you had to outside.
Yeah.
It would be a total pain in the ass.
Yeah.
But you could still do it, but
it it goes off that natural
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: Sun.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
That's Which is why sun Sungrown.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: People were like,
oh, it's sungrown, it's organic.
Like it's, you know what I mean?
It has a fire like.
Dave Lisowski: Higher.
It literally has a difference
or makes a difference.
Jack Rhoads: Correct.
When done, right.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: When done right.
Dave Lisowski: Well, I know.
Aren't there ways that you can
artificially stress the plants inside?
Yes.
Or like make them think that
there's, you can, you know, like that
Jack Rhoads: and you can also,
like, you can do like greenhouse.
Yeah.
It's still technical or mixed
Jay: light.
Jack Rhoads: Yeah.
Mixed white.
Technically still sungrown to a point.
You're just supplementing with
Jay: LED or HPS look,
Jack Rhoads: right.
You're just supplementing an an additional
light source or like greenhouse.
If you do like a light depth,
you're giving it white and then.
In periods of time, like in the summer
months when you have extended light
Jay: mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: That might be the end
of its light cycle for the day.
So you would have to tarp that
greenhouse to cut off the light.
Dave Lisowski: Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: Or like you would
have something inside that would
block all light sources, because
if you get a little bit of light,
that plant has a chance to react.
You know what I mean?
You're not, not, you're either,
Jay: it could be a good way.
Jack Rhoads: Yeah, it
Jay: could be a bed.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I guess in those
types of settings, you.
You wanna be able to dial
it in and control it.
Yeah.
Correct.
As much as you
Jack Rhoads: can, which
is why outdoor is mm-hmm.
A little bit harder.
Like indoor is hard.
Indoor is harder because you
have more variables at play.
Dave Lisowski: Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: You do
have equipment failures.
You have like, you know, we're outdoor,
you're not relying on a hydroponic setup.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: You're likely
just potted in soil.
Yeah.
A nice big
Jay: river bed down.
Yeah.
20 yards from your farm that's
feeding this in, rain's coming in.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: It's like.
Indoor, you have a lot
more variable to overcome.
Like if you're growing and
your HVAC system goes out,
Dave Lisowski: right,
Jack Rhoads: you're screwed,
electricity goes out, you're screwed.
But like outdoors, you're running off sun.
If the sun goes down, it's the plant's
like, all right, time to go to sleep.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: You know what I mean?
It knows like it's done for the day.
Yeah.
The light comes back.
It's like I need to get
everything so I can grow.
True.
So like you're naturally stressing
it, especially on days where
you don't have a lot of sun.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: The next day you might have
a lot and that plant makes up for it.
It's like, whoa, I didn't
have enough sun yesterday.
Yeah.
I'm deprived today.
I need to suck all of this up.
Yeah.
So like, just in case
tomorrow I don't have enough.
Yeah.
Same thing with rainwater.
Yeah.
It's, that's why you have root
systems that are like, you'll see
outdoor plants when you go back on
the other side behind the counters.
A giant book like this.
Look through the pictures.
Yeah.
That's my book.
It's all outdoor.
Dave Lisowski: Okay.
Jack Rhoads: You'll see the stalks
of the plants are like this big.
Yeah.
These plants are like eight feet tall.
Jesus.
You'll see the people trimming
them and the buds are ginormous.
And that's all outdoor grown.
Dave Lisowski: That's wild.
Jack Rhoads: Wild.
They have pictures of them pressing the
rosin from it and all that, so I can see,
and they explain the differences in it.
Dave Lisowski: Damn.
So now obviously I think the, the
through line here is that depending on.
The use case and what you're using it
for depends on how you grow, depends
on how you know, how you treat it.
Mm-hmm.
Depends on how you, uh, process it.
Mm-hmm.
And it kind of, kind of comes back to what
you guys were saying at the beginning,
which is like, depending on what your
goal is of what you want out of what your
rolling, kind of depends on what you're
gonna use and how you're gonna roll it.
Mm-hmm.
From set
Jay: to finish.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Seriously.
And so my question for you guys is like.
You obviously have styles
that I'm sure are similar,
but different from each other.
Mm-hmm.
How did you, how did you get to, to
these points with these styles for
yourselves and, and how does, how did
you kind of, I guess, take into account
like Yeah, write your own tastes mm-hmm.
But also like that of other people.
Like what was the process like getting
to the point that you are at now?
With your freaking workshops.
Jack Rhoads: I used to
smoke a lot just to smoke.
Like I didn't care about flavor as much.
I was just like, I wanna smoke.
Jay: Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: All day.
That's all I wanna do.
Mm-hmm.
But then you start learning about
flavor and you find something that's
like, it just makes your mouth water.
And then you're like, damn, if I slow
down and enjoy this, it'll last longer.
Dave Lisowski: Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: And then I
started dabbling with like.
Rolling bigger joints, like
going from like a half gram
to like a one and a half gram.
Dave Lisowski: Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: And going more cigar style.
If you make it bigger and you
let it burn slower mm-hmm.
You enjoy the experience longer and
then it becomes an experience and not
like a I just wanna sit here and smoke.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: You know what I mean?
Like now, like I don't, I
don't smoke to get high.
I smoke for flavor 10.
I want flavor.
I could care less what
a THC percentage is.
You can gimme a THC percent.
That's 20%.
I don't care.
I want tubes.
I want,
Dave Lisowski: uh, I think we're out.
Jack Rhoads: I want, I want terpenes.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah,
Jack Rhoads: I want terpenes.
Like if you can gimme a 20% THC with two
point a half, 3% TURPs, I'll take it.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: It's super flavorful
and the effect is great.
Even though you're not getting an
abundant amount of THC, you're getting
an overall effect that's just balanced.
Hmm.
It's a nice, solid like chill vibe versus
just like, oh, I'm gonna smoke this
30% flour that has no taste to it, but
I get really, really high for an hour.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
So once I did that, I feel
like it became an experience.
It became like a more ritualistic.
I sit down, I, I, I break out
the workshop, like you said,
like, you know what I mean?
I have a desk in my house
that just, just sits on
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: With all of my supplies.
I just sit at it.
Dave Lisowski: Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: I roll something up.
Dave Lisowski: Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: And then I'll put on a
show and just, you know what I like,
I light it, I take the way I roll 'em.
Dave Lisowski: Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: So I like the outside.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: And then you take
the center, you just pop it out.
Dave Lisowski: Okay.
So it just like, got it.
Jack Rhoads: A little hat.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: And then I just
take my white like a cigar.
Jay: Yep.
You don't want to inhale?
Jack Rhoads: Nope.
Jay: Yeah.
When you inhale with the lighter,
you're actually inhaling butane from Oh,
Dave Lisowski: yeah, yeah.
Shit.
Jack Rhoads: Which will
Jay: pretty much kill the
Jack Rhoads: flavor of your, yeah.
So,
Dave Lisowski: so not
to derail this ahead.
Quick question on that,
because you mentioned butane.
So when Riley was here and he was
doing his, the rhythmic recharge
thing, he, he had, um, uh, hemp.
Jack Rhoads: Hemp,
Dave Lisowski: yeah.
So is that even like a
more like pure It's, yes,
Jack Rhoads: it is.
Dave Lisowski: Hemps
Jack Rhoads: great.
Hemp is really, really good.
Um.
You don't need a lot of it.
No, like little bit goes because
it burns for so slow and so nice.
It's usually like, they usually put
like a wax, a little wax coating on it,
so like it burns a little bit slower.
Jay: Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I will say they're good for bowls.
When you're lighting a joint and
especially a fat joint, like a cigar
style, it's not as, it takes a long
time to actually get that burn.
It's
Jack Rhoads: a softer flame
if you think about it.
It's like, it's like, it's
like a match versus a lighter.
Like a lighter.
You can kind of hold there a match like
burns down and starts to like Yeah.
Out.
That's kind of how they are.
They're great.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: For like you said,
a bowl, you can coil it on top
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: And let it
burn while it's on top.
Mm-hmm.
And that's like a really good way
to wipe those without hitting 'em.
You get more flavor that way too.
'cause you don't scorch everything Right.
For like a joint or
anything that's like mm-hmm.
Standoutish.
Yeah.
It's kinda hard to,
that makes
Dave Lisowski: sense.
Jay: Most rollers will
tell you to use a torch.
Jack Rhoads: Yeah.
Jay: Not a standard lighter
because of the difference in.
Airflow and how hard
Jack Rhoads: the way, the
way I look at it flow.
Interesting.
If you use a standard lighter
with a soft flame, you're
not necessarily scorching it.
'cause it's a softer flame, right.
It takes forever.
So it's that you're just holding
the flame on there longer,
which is what you don't want.
Dave Lisowski: Right.
Jack Rhoads: The least amount of
product you can sacrifice on the end.
Yeah.
The more you can save here.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So like if you have to sacrifice
this tiny tip here to get it litt.
I'd rather sacrifice
drones for the entire cake.
Right.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: Versus like you're trying to
use a soft flame and next thing you know,
you're down here and it's still not lit.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah, yeah.
Jack Rhoads: And then you just sacrifice,
you know, that much of your joint
Dave Lisowski: Wow.
Jack Rhoads: For no reason.
Dave Lisowski: Wow.
Jack Rhoads: So like when it comes
to, especially like hash holes and any
of these bigger sized, a a, a torch.
A jet flame,
Jay: yes.
Jack Rhoads: Butane torch,
Jay: yeah.
Jack Rhoads: Is the way to go.
It's also hotter, so it burns
a little bit more efficient.
Yep.
Yeah, you're not getting as much butane.
It burns off most of that butane.
Jay: And they do make
flameless lighters now.
Jack Rhoads: They
Jay: do.
And that's probably the best
way to go as far as smoking
Dave Lisowski: like.
Like an
Jay: electric
Dave Lisowski: arc.
Jay: Electric coil.
Jack Rhoads: Yep.
Yep.
They have an electric coil.
It's like, it heats up.
Think like a, the coil on
top of like an old stove?
Jay: Yeah.
Dave Lisowski: Oh.
It's just
Jack Rhoads: like a cigarette light.
It's just
Dave Lisowski: getting really
Jack Rhoads: hot.
It's really, really hot.
Okay.
And you just kinda like touch it to it.
And it just,
Dave Lisowski: yep.
Yeah.
I, I get Yeah, like a, like
an old cigarette lighter
Jack Rhoads: in a car.
Right.
They work great.
Or like, if you're gonna use a soft
flame, uh, I don't have mine on me.
Uh, raw makes a Phoenix lighter.
Jay: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: The Phoenix lighter's Cool.
It's, it's like a normal sized bick.
Dave Lisowski: Okay.
Jack Rhoads: But it has, um,
it's got a windscreen on the top.
Dave Lisowski: Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: So you can push the
windscreen up for like if you're outside.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Oh, wow.
Jack Rhoads: It's also electronic
ignition, so you just click it, it's
like a spark instead of a flint, so it
Dave Lisowski: doesn't use Yep.
Flint.
Jack Rhoads: Flint.
When you light a flint, whiter.
You get those little like
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
The, yep.
Jack Rhoads: It's flint burning.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
If you're,
Jack Rhoads: if you're doing that and
it's sparking while you're, while you're
like toasting the end of that, you're
getting heavy metals in the end of that.
That's, you're now in hay.
Dave Lisowski: Yep.
Jack Rhoads: You know what?
I'm like, these are great for
like a quick whatever, like Sure.
Everybody uses these.
They're cheap, they're efficient.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: But at
home, I'm not using this.
This isn't out and about.
I'm not carrying a torch with you.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
This is an out and about like, mm-hmm.
I don't know.
That's just, wow.
There's a lot that people don't
think about when it comes to
like, yes, ritualistically.
Consuming versus habitually consuming.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
You know what
Jack Rhoads: I mean?
Dave Lisowski: It is a big difference
Jay: and
Jack Rhoads: a big, big difference.
Jay: And the issue is too, it's
still, or it's still federally
illegal, so we don't know.
We can't test and do much on cannabis.
So there we're always gonna be finding
out new things because no one can do
the actual big research to find out.
So every day people are finding new ways
to light stuff, new ways to make rosins.
Like the big thing now is static.
Static hash.
How's that work?
Instead of separating the
trichomes through water mm-hmm.
It's dropping the dry sift and static
electricity actually will collect the
trichome heads to like static plates.
Jack Rhoads: Yeah.
So they'll, they will pretty much
use the same, the same electrical
charge as you get when you run
your feet across the carpet.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They'll use that to statically separate.
Plant matter and Tricom head.
Mm-hmm.
So like plant matter will be over here
and Tricom head will stick over here.
Jay: Yep.
Jack Rhoads: And that's
what you collect now?
Jay: Yep.
People, so it's, people have done it
in the old days with balloons, like
it used to be a thing with, yep.
Dave Lisowski: That's insane.
Jack Rhoads: Yeah.
Jay: Some of the best hash makers
over in, uh, like Barcelona.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jay: They use a big sifting
table, a glove and a balloon.
They'll just rub their hand on a
balloon, get the static charge and,
Dave Lisowski: yep.
Wow.
Jay: Yep.
Dave Lisowski: Damn
Jack Rhoads: it like,
sucks it up like a magnet.
Jay: Yeah.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
What dude, you know what?
So
Jay: it's always evolving, you know?
Dave Lisowski: I was gonna say,
man, maybe it's kind of cool.
Mm-hmm.
That like, I, I'm sure once
it, once it's federally legal.
Federally legal.
Jay: Yeah.
Dave Lisowski: And, and there
can be big research on it.
Yes.
I know that's gonna be beneficial,
but it's also kind of cool that.
Jay: We don't know.
We don't,
Dave Lisowski: it's just been
up to like exactly random
experimentation to like figure it out.
Jay: The plants found how long ago?
How many, hundreds of years ago.
And people still are figuring stuff out.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jay: What do you think?
You got it.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jay: Somebody else goes, no, no
Dave Lisowski: surprise.
Jay: Here you go.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jay: So,
Dave Lisowski: wow.
Mm-hmm.
What's been for you guys, what's been
the most interesting, like, surprise,
new information or curve ball?
That, or like advancement that's happened?
While you guys have been into the
world of, of cannabis, um, you know,
Jack Rhoads: there's a lot.
Jay: Yeah.
I would say to me, honestly, the
biggest is probably ice, water hash.
Jack Rhoads: Yeah.
Jay: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: Okay.
Jay: I would say when I first
started smoking, it was cheap.
BHO dads that you could get in.
Anywhere on the street,
Jack Rhoads: they were like brown,
Jay: brown,
Jack Rhoads: bad color, brown looking.
Yeah.
Like you looked at it, you were like,
Jay: ugh.
Yeah.
But
Jack Rhoads: it wasn't, it wasn't
like, it didn't look that nice pale
yellow, creamy butter looking color.
It was like,
Jay: right.
Jack Rhoads: It looked like
somebody just scraped the bottom
of their shoe and put it in a jar.
Jay: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: But that's all
like, that was the technology.
Yep.
Like that's, everybody was just like,
yeah, lemme get some butane and a and
a cylinder and I'm gonna just like
Jay: extract it this way.
Yep.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: Yeah.
Jay: Mm-hmm.
Wow.
Jack Rhoads: Super dangerous.
Yep.
Super, super dangerous.
Mm-hmm.
And people were just taking
chances just to, to make a little
bit of like money concentrate.
Jay: Right.
Jack Rhoads: You know what I mean?
Jay: Mm-hmm.
Dave Lisowski: Wow.
Jack Rhoads: And you're talking like
their, I mean, prices were ridiculous.
Jay: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: For, for this product.
They, like, you didn't
know what was in it.
You didn't know you, like if they
didn't, if they didn't vac it.
Right.
Yeah.
You were left over with a lot of
butane, so you were like dabbing butane.
Jay: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: And not knowing it.
Jay: Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
But so yeah, now people
grow strictly for that.
So it's evolved from like whole growing
onto the prettiest flower, the big nice
taste to growing strictly for washing.
Wow.
To get the highest percentage yields,
and now making new genetics with
higher yields of terpenes for washing.
People are making different
genetics just to watch.
Wow.
Now I got, so to me, I think
like the Rozen game is really
what's the biggest step.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah,
Jay: I agree.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
You agree, Jack?
I agree.
Same thing.
Okay.
Um,
Jack Rhoads: I would also say like.
Grinder technology.
Yes.
Yeah.
I'll go into that real quick.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just like everybody used
to use a standard grinder.
Jay: Uhhuh.
Jack Rhoads: Right.
And you have teeth in here, right?
They just sharp teeth that
you put the product in.
You just mash it apart.
Red it.
Yep.
Dave Lisowski: Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: Santa Cruz shred,
I mean, these are great.
They, they make it's fluffy.
Probably one of the worst well
Jay: known company, uh, Grindr Brands.
Ever.
Jack Rhoads: I still use it.
Yeah.
I still use it.
Hey,
Jay: everybody uses 'em.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
And
Jack Rhoads: smoke.
Jay: Sure.
There's good reason for it, right?
Jack Rhoads: Yep.
But then I learned about flour milk.
Jay: Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: And flour mill
is completely different.
Like
Jay: Yeah.
Dave Lisowski: When you explain this to
me, I was like, how does that even work?
Jack Rhoads: There's no teeth.
Yeah.
So the first time I saw one,
I was like, what is, how do
you grind it without teeth?
It's got serrated plates up top.
Dave Lisowski: Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: So like they're
just little grooved serrations.
And inside is a screen.
Dave Lisowski: Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: Now, like Jay's
model has interchangeable screens.
Right.
Okay.
So you can do a fine,
Dave Lisowski: oh, okay.
Jack Rhoads: Yep.
You can do fine medium course.
Yep.
For different problems.
Dave Lisowski: Right.
Jay: And you sell all the
different plates separately.
Yep.
Or you can buy a kit.
Dave Lisowski: Got
Jay: it.
That way you got Yeah.
Look at that through five.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jay: Yeah.
Five different plate styles for
different if, do you wanna smoke a blunt?
Dave Lisowski: It looks like just
like a, like a shower drain almost.
Jay: I
Jack Rhoads: think Like a cheese gra
Jay: Exactly.
Dave Lisowski: Cheese
Jack Rhoads: tackle.
So what, what happens essentially is
you, you put your product in here.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: You.
With even pressure.
Dave Lisowski: Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: Put it right on top.
Dave Lisowski: Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: And you just like
back and forth and it's just
Dave Lisowski: gonna
Jack Rhoads: like, and it, it'll gently
roll the flower against itself and against
these little like, uh, serrations inside.
And it rolls it off the stems.
So when I'm done with this and I open this
up, there's usually just stems in here.
Dave Lisowski: Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: It like rolled everything
off to the size of these holes.
Dave Lisowski: Wow.
Jack Rhoads: And these holes are great
for, like, this is the medium they
use the, it's a standard for like.
With joints, you can use it for joints.
Dave Lisowski: Sure.
Jack Rhoads: For the hash holes,
I find it's a little too coarse.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
So like a fine plate
would be better for that.
Dave Lisowski: Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: Um, so sometimes I'll
use like a standard two piece.
Dave Lisowski: Got it.
Jack Rhoads: Just something I,
I can like go as fine as I want.
Mm-hmm.
Dave Lisowski: And
Jack Rhoads: I do that by feel.
I go until there's a
little bit of resistance.
Mm-hmm.
Not much.
And then I dump it out.
Dave Lisowski: Wow.
Jack Rhoads: If you, if you hit no
resistance by that time, it's like powder.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah,
Jack Rhoads: yeah, yeah.
So I go just a little bit
before, and usually you get a
really nice even queen burn.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: But everybody's used to a
two piece grinder, a three piece grinder.
Mm-hmm.
A four piece grinder, which
separates that, that ke Yeah.
Which thing can be turned into rod
Jay: raw?
Jack Rhoads: Like You can, you can, yep.
You can.
It's pretty much.
Like dry sift at that point.
Mm-hmm.
Little bit of Keef in there.
Like you can top your bowl
with it, put it in a joint.
It's just tricom heads.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
So like the three piece
doesn't collect that.
Dave Lisowski: Right.
Jack Rhoads: It m it all
together in the flour.
I like that because I'm like.
Keep everything I want.
Everything.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't need to save it.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: But like a four piece,
some people save all of that.
Yeah.
And they're like, I have
a whole jar of Keef.
And I'm like, cool.
Why didn't you just smoke it while
you were smoking Everything else, the
Jay: That's four months old.
Jack Rhoads: Yeah.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
That's a good point.
That's a good point.
I was gonna say, I have a friend who
is like, who would would do, that'd be
like, oh yeah, I have call the Keith.
Jack Rhoads: Yeah.
Dave Lisowski: I'm just like, okay.
That's cool.
Go for it.
Mm-hmm.
I guess, and now I'm hearing
this, I'm like, yeah, that
doesn't sound like the move.
Jack Rhoads: Yeah.
No, I, I like to leave it all, I like to
leave it all in there and get everything
that the plant has to offer out of it.
Dave Lisowski: Like, yeah.
Right.
Jack Rhoads: Why do I need to separate it?
'cause then I'm gonna forget about it.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: And then like he
said, like four months later, I'm
gonna look in the bottle, but wow.
I have all this teeth that's
dry and not potent anymore.
Yeah.
I mean, it's just been exposed to air
the entire time and do anything with it.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jay: On top of that, if
you're smoking for flavor.
I don't personally wanna smoke
17 different flavors of teeth.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: All in one.
Yeah.
Jay: Because then it's
just gonna be overwhelming.
Dave Lisowski: That makes sense.
That makes a lot of sense.
Wow.
Crazy.
Okay.
So, uh, to wrap up for
you guys here mm-hmm.
What, in your, uh, in, in your hopes,
looking forward, you know, with
all the technological changes and
all the different preferences and
all that type of stuff, what's one
thing that you would love to see?
Like the next iteration of, or like
the next advancement of mm-hmm.
With maybe either with, with just
kindness overall or with like specifically
rolling based on your preferences.
What's the next step
that you guys wanna see?
Jay: Hmm.
I don't, I don't know if necessarily
a next step specifically, but I would
love to see a new form of like pre-roll.
Whether it's, 'cause some, at one
point somebody came out with the
hash hole, somebody had to put RO in.
Into the weed, roll it up and
go, this is now a hash hole.
Jack Rhoads: Yeah.
Like I started doing it
completely different.
Jay: Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: Like most people roll
it up, like they hand roll it.
Jay: Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: I used to inject it.
So like that was a whole nother, like
when we first started doing this,
when me and Dave first started doing
this, like we had liquid live resin.
So it's like a little, it was a
little more liquidy, but if you
let it cool down, if you heat it
up, it gets like super liquidy.
I could suck it up in a syringe.
Jay: Mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: And I just used a wide,
like eight millimeter, 10 millimeter
tip, and I would roll a joint with
the tip in the middle of that.
So I would roll it by hand.
And then I would take that, I would
leave the tip in there, I would hook the
syringe to it, and I would fill that up.
So the entire thing was,
was filled with, well, wow.
And then we would pop it out, I'd
set it aside, and after I got 'em
all done, I would let 'em cool.
Like cool back down.
I'd heat it up to like,
I think I have to like.
1 0 5, 1 15. I had a little
like left tile heating mat.
I'd set the jars on there, stir it
with a toothpick, and then I would do
like, it was super slow, not efficient.
You'd have to, so, oh, like the
syringe tip for stainless steel.
They were food grade.
You had to like soak 'em.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah,
Jack Rhoads: get 'em clean,
brush 'em out, let 'em dry.
So I had like six sets of them.
They're not cheap.
They're not efficient.
And then the syringes are
medical grade syringes.
Yeah.
You're sucking the stuff up with
it and then one, one and done.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: So you're tossing
those and you're buying like
20, 30, 40 of those at a time.
Dave Lisowski: Damn.
Jack Rhoads: Just to be able to
do like something that in this
market, like in our market, yeah.
Here we don't have,
Dave Lisowski: right.
Jack Rhoads: So it's like we're trying
to create a product and get it out there.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm just like, Hey.
This is what I came up
with, with what we have.
Let's try it.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: Then it evolved into
like, okay, well now we have this
like a little bit firmer resin,
rasin, butter batter, like all this
different, all these different types.
So it's like we'll start using this,
and that's when we started hand rolling
everything and putting it in there.
Mm-hmm.
That's pretty much where we
ended up, where we are today.
Dave Lisowski: Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: So technology in that
sense, like I wanna see new ways of doing
what we're doing, but more efficient.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Right.
Jack Rhoads: As a hand rower.
It's not efficient.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: It's not.
But it is a, it is a craft.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: Yeah.
It's not efficient at all.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jay: There's a reason why manufacturing
companies have these machines that
cost tens of thousands of dollars.
It's efficiency.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jay: But are you smoking and selling?
Jack Rhoads: I just wanna see things
Jay: more geared towards, or you want
something nice quality that's hand
rolled, that's taking the time to perfect.
And you know that you're gonna get a good,
Jack Rhoads: like a cigar.
Jay: Like a cigar.
Jack Rhoads: People will
pay thousands for a cigar.
Mm-hmm.
Thousands for one cigar.
You know what I mean?
There's a market for it.
Yeah, yeah.
People want that.
Yeah.
So you have to target that market and
get those kind of sores, those consumers
that want a high quality product that
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: Is hand rolled,
like it's a quality source.
You know what I mean?
Like you sourced everything yourself.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: It's the best flour,
the best R and the best paper.
The best tip.
You hand roll it, you give it
to somebody, they smoke it.
They're like, wow, this is great.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: And they want more.
Dave Lisowski: Damn
Jack Rhoads: to create that market.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Jack Rhoads: So something to
aid hand rowers in efficiency.
Mm-hmm.
Technology that would aid
us in doing our job better,
Jay: even if it's something for prep.
That just to make our lives a little
bit easier, to have all the joints
laid out for us in some kind of way.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jay: Any new technology that,
like you said, make it sufficient?
Yeah.
Doesn't have to be the
actual rolling aspect.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jay: But can be the
prepped and the material.
Yeah.
Is there something that's can be made
like the flour mill, that's not a
shredder, that's not gonna tear apart
the flower that's gonna do it the
right way, that we want it to make
our lives a little easier without.
And milling for hours on end.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: And I like to test theories.
'cause like I said, I love my Santa Cruz.
Like yeah, I, I absolutely love it.
But there's theories that sh any
kind of grinder that has teeth,
tears, the trichomes apart.
Dave Lisowski: Mm-hmm.
Versus,
Jack Rhoads: versus like a mill, which
is supposed to leave them intact.
Dave Lisowski: Right.
Jack Rhoads: I'm not scientist,
so I can't confirm nor, but I am
Dave Lisowski: something of a scientist
Jack Rhoads: myself.
Right.
So like I, what I do is I like to
like, I'll run a handful through
the mill and smoke 'em and then
I'll run a handful through mm-hmm.
My Santa Cruz and smoke and I just
wanna see if I notice a difference
in a difference in like the effect.
Mm-hmm.
With the two piece, I try to test like
a coarse grind versus a medium versus
a fine to see which is more potent.
They claim a fine grind
loses potency because you're
crushing the trichomes down.
But in theory you get a better
burn, more surface area.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: If you can combust
something in a more surface
area, take a piece of wood.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: For example,
set it on the ground.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: You, you take up what, a
little tiny section, turn it into saw dust
Dave Lisowski: mm-hmm.
Jack Rhoads: And throw it out there.
Mm-hmm.
You cover more surface
Dave Lisowski: area.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: The more surface area, the
more evenly combusting, like more evenly
it can combust, the more potency you have.
You're getting more of that plant butter,
more of those tricombs versus like a
chunk of your ground, you may miss some.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Jack Rhoads: You know what I mean?
Dave Lisowski: Makes sense.
Jack Rhoads: Yeah.
Dave Lisowski: Damn.
All right.
So, you know, you may not be a scientist,
but you, the approach is pretty
scientific, so, dude, that's awesome.
Um, thank you guys for imparting your.
Hand rolling wisdom.
Yeah,
Jay: of
Dave Lisowski: course.
And you're, you're, you guys are wells of
knowledge and I appreciate the hell outta
you for enlightening me a little bit.
Next time I see someone, uh, lighting with
a, a bick lighter, I'm gonna school them.
Please
Jay: do not inhale.
Dave Lisowski: Yeah.
Yep, that's right.
Wait, wait,
Jay: please.
Dave Lisowski: Yes, please do.
Oh, yeah.
Well, good stuff.
Thank you boys.
Appreciate you.
Yeah, man.
Thanks.