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Welcome to Coffee Can't Fix Everything, a unique podcast where we delve into the complex and often misunderstood world of mental health, all over a comforting cup of coffee. In each episode, we sit down with a steaming brew to have candid, heart-to-heart conversations about various aspects of mental health.
00:10
Hey, this is Coffee Can't Fix Everything. This is a show where we talk about mental health over a cup of coffee. Now I know, I know, coffee is great, but it can't fix all life's struggles. So grab a cup of coffee, come rock with us.
00:27
Every thing that I hear often is like, that I see often is like a need for love, a need for acceptance. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do that.
00:38
Kayla.
00:40
How you doing? Good, I'm excited to be here. How are you doing? Hey, I'm blessed to be in your presence. Yeah. I just, I appreciate you so much. You know, I've known you for, well, probably what, two years now? I think so. Three years now. Yeah, we are in 2023, so it's not two years now. It's crazy to think that our first conversation was talking about mental health. Yeah, oh my gosh, yes. That video around the holidays. Wow, that was the first time, yeah. And now we're here. That's crazy. You know what I'm saying?
01:10
Thank you and appreciate you for what you do. I want to ask you this question. I know there's a lot to it, but what are you, 28? 29 now. 29. OK. 25 now. But you are a leader in not only mental health in general in the area, but especially you're looked at in the LGBTQ community because of who you are
01:40
But how does that feel being the OG at a young age, and you're still looking for your own OG? Like, who do I go to? What is that like? Honestly, I think about this a lot, and it's wild, because in my mind, I feel like I'm still figuring out a lot of things. So I have people across the age spectrum that will look up to me and be like, wow, I wish I had that. Wow, I wish I could experience that. Especially be proud and out and talk the way I talk.
02:10
occupy spaces the way I do without, like what it looks like without a lot of fear and stuff like that. I get a lot of people like, I wanna be like that. And I feel encouraged because I had to do a lot of healing to get to this point. And I guess I never realized that I was different. You know, I just realized that I'm kind of just like going my course and saying what I believe in, I'm standing on what I believe in and didn't realize that that separated me until like literally like two or three years ago. That's how everybody kind of moves like this.
02:40
So it's really encouraging in my role as a leader because I'm gonna hope to create these spaces and things such as that. But sometimes it can be really isolating because I've been thinking a lot. I was like, wow, I had this when I was like a teenager or even literally when I was in college because I didn't know anybody in college that was a part of the LGBTQ community, especially ones that I was connected with, which is crazy to me. So it's in some ways it can feel like empowering, like, wow, yeah, oh, you know, like they say I'm him, like I'm her, you know, it feels good.
03:10
But I do feel isolated sometimes, which unfortunately a lot of us feel that way in general because we're different, but it's just like you don't get to see a lot of older people, especially older black people, a part of the LGBTQ community that are living and embracing themselves with confidence and feeling supported and in community. So I sometimes struggle to know who can I turn to that looks like me, that's had my experience, to get some of that support. And so a lot of it I find myself cultivating internally of like, where do I want to see myself?
03:40
becoming. Right. So in a way, because of your journey, you say you did a lot of work on yourself mentally, you became the mentor that you want.
03:55
if...
03:57
those mentors that you were looking for, there's somebody out there right now that's 50 years old that's looking for someone like you. Yes, absolutely. And so what was that work that you did that you can now say confidently, like this is who I am, I am her? Oh yes. Tell me about that journey, cause that had to be, there was levels to that journey. Layers, so like, as you're saying, I was like, I feel the onion inside my heart, like, all right, where do we wanna start?
04:27
So it took like it's there's so many and I can go on and on and on about it But I'll bring it down to like some you know Clear statements of things that I remember times in my life one big one like when I was early the coming out experience I think I had to Really embrace that in a lot of folks in the LGBTQ community Like that is a huge experience because that is coming out as like I'm accessing confidence I'm accessing courage because society has told me you are not okay
04:57
And it's even harder being black because in the black community, it's like why the messages you receive is like Why would you want to add harder parts in your life when you already like it's already hard being black? So when you come out like you have to be ready in many ways to own all of that And so by the time I came out I was like I'm ready for whatever blows I'm experienced and I experienced a lot of blows In many different directions some of those were internal for myself some of those were external And so that was like one big piece of like I'm I have to learn how to stand tall
05:26
within myself because me not being who I am creates so much pain for me internally and like I don't feel connected to the world I don't feel connected to the earth and so that was like one big step the next was like actually living in that truth because one thing to come out was one like stay out right because the world will tell you you got to go back inside this is not okay for you so in living in my truth I had to wrestle a lot because I grew up from the south I grew up in the AME church I go to a Baptist church now so like those
05:56
That was probably the hardest part, is like, how do I reconcile what I've been told about what God believes about me or loves me with what I actually believe and what I'm understanding, you know, in these different passes. And I'm so grateful for like, my best friend, we did this together because he also came out, it was funny, we've been best friends since high school, neither one of us, you know, came out so we love, we're like, hey! And so we like, we did that process together, we read a lot, like the Bible, we're reading books, we're listening to like different things.
06:26
we were sharing all of that and we were like going through that process and That was when I started to like come to my own beliefs as well and understand also talk to other folks that have been through That journey or even just hearing the different pastors what they're saying today That was when I really started to shift even more so and I was just like, okay I feel this but I didn't do the most important work yet So I did that on like the spiritual level like let me understand how it feels with God Let me come out and so I could live but I never went back to that little girl that held all those messages
06:56
That's why I preach a lot of inner child stuff, because that changed the game, was when I went to therapy, and my therapist was just like, yeah, it sounds like there's a little girl inside of you that has lesbianophobia, right? Pretty much just like, that doesn't believe that's okay. And I'll never forget this therapy session of when I had to connect with her and hear those messages, and hear that pain, and I was able to offer just the love, support, and just hold space for that. I remember just like releasing all of it.
07:26
because I don't feel that weight anymore, because it's like I unburdened literally like that I was carrying, that was like interfering with my ability to like live honestly and truthfully in who I am. Right, and you can see it. You can see that work now. That was something that I struggled with for a long time too, Kayla, in the sense of when you start talking about your inner child work, it brings a smile to my face now, because at the time, you know, I was struggling with the fact that
07:56
Because of how I grew up and not having everything that I wanted, you know, there were things that were going on. There was this child in me that just wasn't, was just staying in the corner, comfort. And as an adult, that didn't allow me to, I wouldn't say it allowed me to be, to...
08:21
mask how I feel as humble. Like I just, I'm gonna be humble, you know? I'm not gonna do too much. I'm just gonna do my little thing here. I ain't gonna do nothing. Absolutely. And I had all these dreams, Kayla, like I wanna do all these things, but nah, Corey can't do that. You can't do that. You know what I mean? And then as you start to really, as I started to really work on that a little bit and be like...
08:46
This is not being cocky, like to say, hey, I'm that guy right now. It might sound cocky, but that allowed me to be like, you know what, I can do some of these things I've been envisioning for years and just never had the courage do. Not because I didn't want to, but because that person in me was like, you can't do, you ain't gonna do that. You know what I mean? And that was for me working on that and recognizing that was super important. You know what I mean?
09:16
There's a lot of grown men out there and women that have a child in them that has not been able to come out. They haven't been able to work on that. How do you, just as a friend, if you know somebody that's like, man, you need to talk to somebody, but just—but saying that, people, people to this day will get defensive.
09:38
But how do you bring that conversation up? Or how do you say, hey, I love you? And maybe I'm saying it. Right. I mean, you sound like it's a blueprint. I'm saying it. Yes, yes. How do we break past the stigma of telling someone they need to go to a therapist, or even suggesting it? Right. And I think that's tough, too, because I might have a different perspective, because most of my friends know if I'm talking about therapy, like, we're going to, I'm going to bring it up. Oh, yeah.
10:08
my role. And so I think we before we recommend it to someone, we have to be open and honest about how comfortable are we seeing a therapist? How comfortable are we even like encouraging that? Because if we don't check in with that, it's going to come off as like, you need to talk to somebody. You see how like, maybe my body is like backing up like, what's wrong with you? Go check it out instead of like, well, I really think you might benefit from something like this. And so if we don't do that internal check, we're going to pass down all these stigmas and negative judgments to our folks. So what I would say is if you're
10:38
open the door for that. I usually only recommend therapy to my friends when I'm like, this has been an ongoing situation that has happened. Because sometimes people just need a vent and just talk, and then they feel okay. They just need community and support. But, and if you recommend it too early, it's just like, I just need my friend to just listen to me. I don't need a therapist. Yes, and so, but when it becomes a pattern, that's when it's like, you know, you've been struggling with this for like a hot minute. You know, I've noticed you bringing it up a lot more. You're saying like, you're not feeling okay.
11:08
and it doesn't seem like it's getting a little better for you and there's other things happening in your life, have you thought about talking to someone? Because at that point it's no longer, you need to talk to them because you're not coping this. You need to talk to them because you got a lot going on and it's clear that it's impacting you. It's started off that way. So if that is a rule of thumb people want to use, it's like, unless it's like a safety concern, usually a one-off would be like, no, I wouldn't know if you got it. But like, if it continues to happen, like two or three times y'all talking about the same thing, then it might be like a, you know what I mean?
11:38
about talking to someone, you know, so you have your own space to talk a little bit more about that, that's usually how I try to frame it. And I've been bad at that, so I will. This is something that I've improved on, I really have. I have a friend say something to me that I may as interpret as, man, this is really, he's really telling me something that's really going on with him. And I wanna be that supportive friend. And I'd be like, hey man, that's...
12:06
That's crazy, man. I'm sorry you're going through that. And then I start to feel very uncomfortable. And I'd be like, but you'll be all right. All right, yeah. You see the bulls game? All right, you want them to be all right. Yeah. I want you to be all right. You know, when...
12:22
I feel like for a lot of people, like myself, you know, I struggle with the profession that I'm in and not toeing that line with mental health, because I do see a lot of patients that are coming to me for maybe diabetes management or whatever management, but they are struggling. And I try to not toe that line of being your therapist, because that's just not my scope. It's not my scope, and that goes, that translates to when I'm connected with my friends.
12:52
So like, what can someone do?
12:57
when they're having that conversation with somebody and not, first we need to break the stigma of being like awkward around it. But like what would you say to someone that just doesn't know mental background, nothing, but they wanna support their friend? Yeah. What's that look like? One I would say being a therapist means more than just sitting and listening to people. Or even just like talking to them about what they're going through. Oh, don't hurt. Yeah, it's like when someone's in a therapy office,
13:27
listening to how this connects to past patterns. I'm listening to the things that might jump out. I'm looking at body language and things like that. And then I'm also listening to, okay, how does this tie into your original goals and things like that? And my feelings in that space don't matter. My thoughts about something don't matter. I am not offering advice. So when folks say, I don't wanna be a therapist, there's a lot that goes into being a therapist more than just listening. So someone's like, how do you start? You can literally just listen.
13:57
you can validate, you can just like offer support. You can ask them maybe like, how has that been impacting you? It may feel therapeutic, but you aren't being a therapist. You were just being a support person. And that's what sometimes I think breaks my heart in like how our culture has like shifted towards mental health is they see, oh, someone just listening, being supportive, validating is being a therapist. And that takes away like, what does human connection mean? You know, like what does it actually look like in our society to be a support for someone?
14:27
in a way that just feels authentic without us like saying that. That's not even just you, that's a lot of people that I don't know what to do because I'm not a therapist. It's just like y'all, like we have a basic way to connect with people. And so I would say if we go back to some of that, it's just like, what does it feel like to be a friend? Just to be there, to be supportive, to listen. Maybe even asking like, how can I support you right now? Like do you want me just to listen? Do you want to offer? So at least help give some direction. But knowing that when you're starting to lean more into therapists is when you find yourself trying to fix their problems.
14:57
And that's what I was gonna say. Yeah. I feel like for a lot of people, it feels like you have to have some type of answer for them. Like if someone's coming at you with a major problem.
15:09
I'm gonna think, okay, how can I help this person? But really what I'm saying, how can I fix this situation? Yes, yes. And I'm not fixing anything. For one, I don't have the tools to fix that situation. And I'm doing them a disservice by trying to fix it. When all I... I can do much more than just sitting here and shutting my mouth. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes, because I was gonna ask, where... That have-to that people have is like, I have to fix it. Like, where does that come from? And that might go back to some inner child of like,
15:39
Where is this need? Like, if they're not asking me for that in this moment, they're just talking to me about what's going on, where is that need to make them feel completely eradicated of their feelings coming from? Yeah.
15:52
I can't speak for everybody, but I know, just speaking from my experience growing up, is that it was the need to control the environment. Especially when you're coming from a rocky environment. I'm not saying my upbringing was awful. I had a great life, but there were things that I felt like I needed to do to make sure my mom's happy, make sure there was peace in the house. Mom, I did this, I was mom's boy. Mom, I did this, I did, make sure there was peace. And then you grow up.
16:22
being like, okay, maybe subconsciously, like, oh, I can fix this, I can fix anything. Right, yes. I'm not Bob the Builder. Mm-hmm. You know, I can't fix. Yeah. I start breaking more than I can fix. You know, and I think for me, it's just...
16:41
What I've learned just from this conversation so far is maybe I can fix more by just shedding up and listening. I feel like a lot of people can do that. So I want to take it back.
16:53
to the LGBT community, but specifically those babies that you are mentoring right now, those black babies that you see. And I say babies because I'm old. I know, I was like, do you know what I mean? We work with inner children, we him, yes. Walk me through that. Like what is the mindset right now? What are the things that they're going through?
17:23
You already touched on it, being in the black community, you have the church influence, you have cultural influences that make it harder. And yes, it's probably a lot easier now than it was early, early 2000s, 80s, 90s, early 2000s. But what is that like? Yeah, it's, there's three things that stand out to me. Before I jump to that, I do wanna go back to your fixing statement that I can fix myself by not saying anything or fix the situation by that. I just wanna say, it's not your responsibility
17:53
Just throwing that nugget out there, other people might need to hear it too. But that's sometimes you can lean into like, I'm not responsible for this. Okay, now just directing back. Three things that I hear often is like, that I see often is like a need for love, a need for acceptance and a need for protection. And it's so sad because you hear it. And this is something I think LGBTQ folks across the board have to deal with, but for sure like in a black community, is love is,
18:23
It's like a staple thing. I'ma love you because you're my child. You know, I'ma love you because of this, this, and this. But you might not get the other two, right? So you might get love, because that's just, like, inherent. But protection, if someone says something out of pocket, you know, towards you about your community, like, why you let them dress like that? Why you let them date that person? They're not saying, often, unfortunately, especially the folks that I work with, it's not like, leave them alone. They deserve to love who they love. It's kind of like, well, you know, or kind of like...
18:53
or it's silence or there's not a lot of rebuttal. So there's that, their protection isn't there. And that can happen early in life. Just like the things that are said on television, the things that are said at the family table, you know, like holidays, like the way you just kind of talk about things. I remember when Barack Obama signs into the law, like legalizing same-sex marriage and stuff like that, the conversations that were held in our black community about that action.
19:23
We had so many black folks that were part of that community that were listening. So, you know, I offer it's kind of a mixed message. I love you, but I don't love that part of you. I'm not gonna protect that part of you. And then that leads right into acceptance of like, it sends a clear message that all of me is not worthy of being loved, supported, seen, valued, heard. And then when you take that out of the home and then you go into society, and then that is like capitalized on being black or any other marginalized identity,
19:53
you add age into the component, you add all these other factors, it can create such a deep sense of isolation that makes you not only feel isolated from your family, isolated from the world, but isolated from yourself. And often, in a lot of my work, I have to help them bring back that connection within themselves because we see a level of, I have to disconnect from that part of me because I have learned that that is unworthy of love. And this happens even after they come out. You can be dating people, but it's still like,
20:23
Yeah, but I disconnect or you kind of shape shift in certain spaces. I see it a lot, especially with the black gay men that I've worked with in my time, it's like the change of voice, like putting a little more base or feeling like you have to like kind of feel more masculine because in many cultures, especially black indigenous people, color folk in certain communities, like the way gay men are presumed is to be more connected with femininity or seen as like less masculine.
20:53
same with women as well, if they're not more feminine, kind of you see that same pattern or else people will assume that you're something that you're not. And so even as you come out, it's like these battles and identity negotiations that happen internally that just create low sense of self. I was looking at statistics and it like broke my heart to see like in 2022, like on the Trevor Project where they do a lot of work for LGBTQ youth on like ages like 13 and 24, the two highest rates of suicide were with indigenous populations in the black community. Yes.
21:22
It's just like, what is going on? It breaks my heart. And then we're seeing an increase in rates within that as well. So across the board. So those are the things that I see most common.
21:34
especially within those communities, and a lot of therapy is like, how do we rebuild that internal love? How do we rebuild community around you that you truly feel accepted? And I think I naturally went through that as well, as I was trying to navigate coming out, it's like, I love black people, I love being around them, but I didn't have a lot of black people that are part of the LGBTQ community. So, and sometimes it felt like, am I sacrificing a part of myself in certain conversations we can't have or they don't know how to have? But if you exit that space,
22:04
to be two spaces, the conversations of races don't come up in ways that make me feel comfortable or accepted or safe. And so you end up feeling, unfortunately, in times that you have to choose. And that can feel uncomfortable until you find a community that embraces every aspect of your day, not just tolerates, but truly embraces and celebrates. Right, so for someone like myself, cisgender male, that wants to show, this is where I struggle. Kayla is...
22:35
I'm an ally, and I want people to know I'm an ally.
22:41
I feel like I don't want to be performative. Like, almost like how someone's like, hey, I got a black friend. Yeah, I was just wondering. I was like, yeah, that sounds like, I've heard that narrative before. Ha ha. Yes, yes, yes. I would be like, hey, how you doing? I'm like, yes, you know, hey, I know Kayla. Yeah, I was like, don't let me be, because obviously, I ain't nobody talking friends. But yes, yes, but you're right, though, right? It's like, how do you be an ally and actually live by that? Yes.
23:11
just to show their support, to show their love for these kids that feel like, as soon as they see me and they know who I am, they're like, ah. Because it feels automatic, like, oh, you don't rock with me. Mm-hmm. You know what I'm saying? Like, I can say, yeah, we just left church, but everybody's like, oh. It's like, check. Yeah. But you don't know what's in my heart, though. So how do I show that support, you know, without having to say, hey, by the way, what is that, what would that look like for someone like myself? Right. Obviously, that's kind of a tough one, too,
23:41
What you're describing is probably exactly what happens in a lot of folks in LGBTQ community is like that constant scanning, like, are you a safe person? And being aware to know that that's not a presumption of who you are, it's like a presumption of like what we represent. And a system of people, if you think about it that way, is like, is this person gonna be safe or is this person gonna harm me? I've been harmed by other people like that in the past and things such as that. And so we think of like allies show, even if you go to church, there's a lot of folks like, like that in itself is like,
24:11
already being aware that that can be a place of harm. But knowing that the way you treat somebody and how you treat them, how you talk to them, how you acknowledge their identities and things like that is gonna be really important. And so when I've talked to people, it's like the concept of relationships. So if you have a person that's within your crew of folks and y'all are talking about relationships, what kind of relationships are being talked about? Are we only talking about cis, hetero relationships? Are we acknowledging that there are other relationships that are available or are present? Because that's kind of those pieces of like,
24:41
is this space for me? And it could also be like, what if someone were to look at you or like even look, I would say like look on your like your social media page, because that's where we like talk the most about ourselves or the things that matter to us. Is there any evidence of something that you care about? Is there anything in like our posts and the conversations that we have that would demonstrate, oh yes, this is something that I have valued, right? Because I think when we think of allyship is like, I wanna be safe, but the people should know I'm safe. Or they can ask me questions to let me know they're safe.
25:11
We were like, what? Right? You were like, yeah.
25:18
I don't know about that, G. So it's the same concept of like, what have I actively done and how am I actively demonstrating? That I'm saying, because people will know. Like we have a pretty good sense on like, all right, this might be an environment that would be okay and safe. For one, if they bring up something that kind of connects to that, or like, let's say you have a gay friend and he's like, yeah, you know, my boyfriend, things like that, what's your body language? It's like, oh yeah, tell me more about your boyfriend. Or they're like, okay, cool, cool. And then we change the subject
25:48
Am I actively engaging in the discussion? Am I actively open to it? Things like that. Those are ways that you can create that space, which comes from, honestly, intimate relationships. Go to the Pride Parade, things like that, the types of books. People these days are posting a lot of the books that they're reading. These days, are we posting books with LGBTQ authors and things like that? Are we doing Audre Lorde? Are we doing James Baldwin? What are we posting about?
26:18
What are the kind of conversations we're engaging in? Are we staying silent about things that happen? Like, you know, pulse shooting. You know, those are, that's when it goes to like ally with shifts into advocate of like, what kind of community and space am I actually creating? Not in my heart, but around me that lets people know they're invited. Because there's nothing worse than like feeling invited, which unfortunately happens because a lot of people will say, I care in my heart. And then you get into that space and they say these off-pocket things. Where they say, I love you. And then something comes up and you're like,
26:48
You know, same with like other forms of allyship. So I would say in those spaces, like actively engaging and letting them know you actually care about it. So if they're dating someone, like people with my wife will always say, well, how's your wife? How are things going? It's like, oh, yeah, you actually acknowledged that. Yes, I have this in my life and things like that. Are you actually doing things? No, that's good. Kayla, it's always good talking to you. Like, always learn something new. Yes, thank you. Always, thank you so much for your time today. I really, really appreciate you. And just thank you for sitting down
27:18
important topic. Absolutely. Thank you for having me. Yes, yes, I appreciate you. Alright, yes, absolutely.