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Discover The Humanity of Homelessness, a podcast from Church at the Park that brings you honest, heartfelt conversations with people experiencing homelessness, community leaders, and staff.
John Marshall | 00:08
Welcome to the Humanity of Homelessness. I'm John Marshall, and this is a podcast from Church at the Park in Salem, Oregon. Since 2007, Church at the Park has created community with our neighbors living outside. Today, we get to offer collaborative navigation, emergency sheltering, workforce development, and supported housing for our neighbors in need. In each episode, we hear from a member of our community who is experiencing or has experienced homelessness. We invite them to share their story and their own words so that they, and we, might remember their goodness, their courage, their hope, and their humanity. You can find this podcast wherever podcasts are found. And it is helpful to us if you subscribe and share episodes that inspire you. Thanks to everyone for tuning in and joining us as we celebrate good news in the hardest, most unexpected places. In today's episode, we get to hear from Sterling Cuneo. Sterling is a dear friend of Church at the Park. He served on our spiritual care team as our resident storyteller. Now he travels the world engaging in the work of systems transformation with people who are way more impressive and influential than us. About every couple of weeks, Sterling pops back into our Church of the Park space to share where he just came from and where he's headed next and what forest he's currently camping in for the needed rest and solitude in between all of it. He's a writer and spoken word poet, a 2019-2020 Pan America Writing for Justice Fellow, a 2019 Oregon Literary Arts Fellow, and a two-time Pan America Prison Writing Award winner. And his own life story is impressive in the truest sense of that word. I've never experienced a space with Sterling where I or someone else isn't impacted and left with a deeper, holier impression of what it means to be human. It is a privilege and honor to know Sterling, to call him a friend, and to have him on the podcast.
So Sterling, welcome.
Sterling Cunio | 01:57
Man, now I'm all touched and blushing and stuff. Thank you. Thank you. And just for the record, like, The greatest people in my life are from Salem. There's, you know.
Yeah. And I've only been to one other country. About to go to my second.
So it is not traveling the world yet. But you Okay.
John Marshall | 02:18
Do.
Sterling Cunio | 02:19
Salem is amongst the best people.
John Marshall | 02:22
That's fair. You are traveling around the country for sure. Or you've done a lot of traveling recently.
Yeah. And adding some more of the world to that itinerary. And even part of why we're doing this recording today is because you are on your way to the airport to fly out somewhere.
So where are you headed? What's this trip about?
Sterling Cunio | 02:44
Costa Rica to a retreat and a fully sustainable retreat in the rainforest is a place called Brave Earth. And it is a part of a global movement. Narrative led system change strategy as a part of the rise on cohort.
So I get to be a part of a group of 20 that plans on a Global campaign in which we get to introduce messages of joy and togetherness into the world through art and community organizing.
John Marshall | 03:25
What about that space and that work are you most looking forward to?
Sterling Cunio | 03:31
The joy, you know, like more in more particularly, pushing myself and ourselves to understand Rise. You know. It's hard to push joy. In places of social movement and it's hard to push joy in the trenches of struggle. Right. And I come out of that. Background for multiple decades. And to now... Be in a position to where I can sit in peaceful places and figure out how to translate hope. And resilience in dreaming through adversity into mobilizing tools. It's kind of cool.
John Marshall | 04:26
It was really cool.
Sterling Cunio | 04:27
You know, so I'm looking forward to that. They say they got a lot of snakes, though. Not happy about that.
John Marshall | 04:33
May you avoid all the snakes.
Sterling Cunio | 04:36
Yeah, man. Get some good boots.
Yeah. I'm going with just the backpack. I messed around too long in the. Didn't pack properly.
John Marshall | 04:47
Well, I think Costa Rica is probably one of those places where you could show up with just a backpack and you're going to be fine. Yeah.
Sterling Cunio | 04:53
I got faith. There you go. Good heart, big smile. It goes far.
John Marshall | 04:57
Well, like you said, that work of pushing joy and creating hope in the midst of adversity. I don't think people learn how to do that well unless they've had the experience of adversity and pain and darkness and maybe been forced to find The seeds of joy. And like you said, you have... A lifetime worth of experience. Being forced to find your joy. And I want to talk about your work that you're up to now, your experience with Church of the Park, your perspective on homelessness in Salem, and how that compares to your exposure to homelessness in other contexts. But I would love to start with your own story. And I really want you to tell it the way that you want it to be heard. Always the first place that I ask people to start is with where the first place they called home was.
So where'd you grow up and what was childhood like?
Sterling Cunio | 05:57
Well, I mean, I grew up in a suburb out of outside of Dallas, Texas named Mesquite. And, you know, the first. Twelve years of my life was great. And I was in a home environment, no drugs, no alcohol, any of that stuff, no violence. And I was raised by my biological grandma, who I knew as my mama.
And then she died. And when she died, I was then bounced around to various dysfunctional relatives that she had effectively sheltered me from. And... I moved a total of seven times between four different states in a two-year period before ending up homeless here in Salem, Oregon.
And then... I was, you know, while I was homeless, I was In the streets, I became involved in the culture of street crime. While in the streets, I committed a very serious offense and a great harm.
And then went to prison and I was in prison for 28 years as, I went in at 16, came out three and a half years ago at 45. And while I was in there, you know, At first... It was just about survival. And it made me worse. Right. I was 16 years old from a different state. Just no gang affiliations, nothing like that. And thrown in with nothing. Just an extremely violent environment.
So the first few years was just spent learning how to survive. And then the next few years after that was then embodying all of the lessons that the prison environment had told me. And that was probably like the worst And then probably about 10 years, 10 and a half years or so in. I decided I wanted to become a better person. And this is before I had the opportunity, any legal opportunity.
Like I had consecutive life without the possibility of Yeah.
John Marshall | 08:20
Parole. That was your sentence.
Sterling Cunio | 08:22
Cause I, So... You know, my story is accessible. Part of being here for me now is my commitment to lifelong service.
So I won't delve into it too much, but I committed a carjacking in which people were killed and shot to death. And I was 16 years old and the gravity of what I did didn't even begin to weigh on me until my mid 20s when I got a letter from the nephew of one of my victims and asking me why I did it. And I couldn't answer that question. And that began an introspective process that still wouldn't fully develop to a point to where I started to relate to the harms, the damage, the hurt that I had caused for a few more years. And at that point, when I had realized it was about 26, 27 years old at the time, and, you know, no hope of getting out. No incentive, no parole, none of that. But what I did is I start to come to realize that I had been on this earth nearly three decades at that time and had did nothing good. And that there was actually a period in my life from about the age of 14.
So from 12 to 14, I was just bounced around sleeping on couches, kicked out of the house, beat up by adults, you know, to get fight lessons, All that stuff, right? And then 14 to 16, I was fully in the streets, robbing, stealing cars, fighting, and...
So there was a time from about 14 to 26 to where If you were in my presence, you were in danger either of what I would do to you or. What somebody would do to you for trying to do to me.
Like I had been fully enmeshed in this violence. Street culture. And that realization... That I did nothing good. In the world. Lead to... Really an empathetic connection. To the survivors of my greatest harms, right?
Like, My victims were not children, but they were They had parents and they had siblings. And it really wasn't until... I had started to develop healthy relationships in my own life that I started to think more about the impact of my behaviors on the relationships of others. And as I did that, you know, more and more I started really wrestle with the harm, like the damage that I had did. And I came to realize that I was... Anna. There was a hole, like a perpetual hole, like there's no way to ever repair or restore. Identically, what I did, you can't replace. And, And those was just Bye, Mary. Victims, you know. I had You know, I lived a life of harm as an everyday norm.
You know And coming to that realization, I realized that the only thing I could do was just to become a better person. And... I started with my own thinking, then I moved into my own language and then, or, you know, working with my language.
And then I moved into encouraging and service to others, And I was locked. In the self and an incredibly deprived and an incredibly dangerous and an incredibly violent person... Place So I have plenty of opportunity. Tuh. Start practicing kindness and service to others right where I was.
So I would Yeah. And then that just, You know, that was about...
So 2008, I had... Desisted from criminal activity are committed to you know, moving, I committed to getting away from the game at that time and I desisted from all. Criminal behaviors. And in 2009, I committed my life to nonviolence. And... Didn't even get a chance of coming home until 2014.
So there was like, five-year journey of no hope but determination to Be a light. And all of that. Came out of a recognition that the value of life. And that there's no matter how. Horrible or horrific or difficult. Our past, maybe? It doesn't prohibit or prevent the ability to do good in the present. And I started to embody that about 2008. And it just opened up the world. At first, I started doing good things out of guilt. But then I started realizing that doing good felt good.
And then... No.
You know, a lot of good stuff come from doing good things. And so life has become good. I'm in a good season.
Yeah, you.
John Marshall | 14:57
Are. What changed in 2014 that allowed you to start imagining a life outside of Yeah.
Sterling Cunio | 15:06
Some legal stuff. You know, I probably won't bore the listeners if they interested.
You know, I was involved in... You know, the, or I was involved in, illegal A set of legal circumstances that affected five boys between the ages of, you know, 14 and 16, between the years of 1989 and 1994, when we were sentenced to life. Life Before the state had a release mechanism, so we ended up with a de facto life without the possibility of parole before Oregon law authorized it.
So there is a body of jurisprudence related to the laws of that time, my case and the cases of four others. That was a legal saga.
I mean, the Oregon Supreme Court Identified it as one of the most complicated cases that they've seen the legal history of juvenile life without parole and de facto juvenile life without parole and just. The practice of de facto life without parole in Oregon is extensive and... It wasn't until... In 2014, that there was some, well, back to about 2012 in the United States Supreme Court with Miller v. Alabama, which was the recognition that youth and adolescence is less culpable for violence. Multiple reasons. And by the time the Supreme Court acknowledges something, it's been a science for at least a decade. Right.
So. You know, kids is different. And what does that mean Right.
John Marshall | 17:01
If the law is catching up to reality?
Sterling Cunio | 17:04
And so when that so when Oregon started wrestling with those questions and Oregon court started to wrestle with those questions, I started seeing my peers get opportunities. And at that time, I had actually offered to when I the very first chance to. That I got to go back to court and parole board and all that other stuff. I had offered to forego that in an exchange for a restorative justice circle. Thankfully, The opposing attorney refused that I did, because had I did that, I'd still be, you know, I would have never. Been able to get a meaningful opportunity because I would have relinquished it. And by 2014, you know, I had been able to develop, you know, I'd started to be able to develop a, an incredibly supportive community of, you know, volunteers and, gears that I kind of gave like a license to or a green light.
Like when I said I was stepping away from the game, I didn't do it because I was in violation of any of the codes. Like even now you got like, you know, there was, I was in good standing with my peers and remain in good standing with my peers. And so when I said, you know, I'm stepping away from this game, because I just want to be a better person.
John Marshall | 18:42
They.
Sterling Cunio | 18:43
Respected it. And I'm going to focus on Education. I'm a focus on community service. I'm a focus on hospice.
You know, not only do they respect it, but I modeled what so many desired. When I got there, I was a kid. Older people, older leaders told me how it was. But as I became the older leader, I could talk to the other leaders and be like, you know, now we can decide better. It's.
John Marshall | 19:14
Fascinating to me for you to use the language of modeling something that everyone desired. Yeah. And it suggests to me that the context that you found yourself in was one Where that. Desired seemed to be inaccessible, but somehow you found it accessible.
Sterling Cunio | 19:32
Well, it was... So we was in a place where the norms and the rules were determined. For us either by, you know, organizational structure, both formal and informal. And, What I had realized was that every most of us Detested. The rule like detested the way that we were doing things like, you know, it was real divisive and very unforgiving and everything. Everything was just there's a little issue. First thing is violence. Right. And it was and, you know, and I see it out here.
You know, this is in this is human dynamics we're talking about. Right.
Like, you know, and I was in inside. One of the things that people don't realize is there is so much informal conflict mediation because there's such a disproportionate. Blowout or loss. And it's usually just one or two people That are riling up. Or really the chaotic And there's not enough. People They'd be like, I ain't doing that. Why am I doing it like that? Or why do that? And so sometimes you just got to be the first. And I had the benefit of... I know what I... I committed. I knew what my commitment was and I committed. To nonviolence for spiritual reasons.
So I wasn't gonna let any institutional or, your group dynamics or any and that. Swayed that.
John Marshall | 21:33
That description of a larger corporate in the sense that it's made up of multiple people's corporate dynamic that can sometimes be hijacked by one or two individuals. Feels very... Timely for the headlines that are in the news today. And so I want to expand the conversation to the things that you are learning as you are traveling to new places. Before we get there, just will you briefly talk about your release and then your re-entry into the world and Church of the Park and what that part of your story, what the meaning is for you?
Sterling Cunio | 22:10
I will. I will.
So... You know, My release was... Miraculous and not only a testament to community support I mean there was so many people throughout Oregon throughout the United States even you know a couple throughout the world that advocated, that supported, that And There will, you know, former Governor Kate Brown Was looking at her ability to reduce damage. The prison populations. And this was at a time during the George Floyd uprisings this was at a time during covid and it was during the wildfires when marion county in detroit and all that stuff caught on fire and they took three prisons and shut them down and threw everybody in the main prison right and the shit was crazy and covid was crazy people dying every week and hauled off you know it's smokes in the air it was just Wow. And so... Along with people in the DOC. - And the governor's office. And... At the Push. And organizing of a lot of different community advocates, they started to Identify. People within our legal system who no longer needed to be there. And began to go through really a rigorous review of rehabilitation, community support, what have you done with your time, and gave people second chances at life. And I was one of the few fortunate enough to Be graced. And what's ironic is I was just talking about the legal history. It wasn't back and forth. I had actually won a lawsuit against Kate Rouse.
John Marshall | 24:36
Right. In which you represented yourself.
Sterling Cunio | 24:38
Is that accurate? Well, no. I had Ryan O'Connor. By this point, I had a team.
John Marshall | 24:44
Legal.
Sterling Cunio | 24:46
But you had done a lot of the work. To get rid of. Sure. Because they didn't Wasn't seeing it like I was seeing it. And remember, the Oregon Supreme Court called it some of the most complicated legal issues in the state's history.
So I was getting and I didn't have no money and no resources and any of that stuff. And so after, you know, I had to give myself a chance. And by the time I got the ability to hire attorneys, it was really hard to work with me because I didn't, you know, my trust had been unfulfilled. Damaged. And I had ended up with an incredible legal team, Towards the end, you know, Ryan O'Connor leads a capital and just so many legal clinics and I had so much self-community support. And when I came back, Home? Equally amazed. I am an outlier in terms of the opportunities, in terms of the support, in terms of the resources. I'm not necessarily a. An outlier in terms of worthiness. There are a lot of people even now, like there's a lot of people currently incarcerated that don't need to be incarcerated. And they've done incredible amounts of personal growth and they hold themselves to principles and commitments based on values of being better people as a result. Of taking responsibility for harms they've done that still exist in our overcrowded prisons, right? I represent one of many I just had what many didn't. In terms of Support. And I was, you know, and so, I mean, outstanding support, right?
So I came and I remember the day I got out and remember to, you know, try to imagine having a. A dream or a vision and a goal that you work against all odds for, Right.
Kind of like we're doing with eliminating our homelessness. Right. That you work against all odds for. Starting with Nutman. For 20 years.
And then you get to step into the middle of it and experience it. Right. I know that. The day I received my miracle. And that was November 1st, 2021, three and a half years ago. And I was in pure bliss. It was raining. I was needed by I don't know how many people was there 30 to 50 easily. And those were my closest, you know, those are my closest people. And I was engulfed. Hugs, laughter. It's so beautiful.
And then I remember we did everything that day. We were bowling and practice and we went to the eight box... And... That evening. On the way home, we were getting on I-5. And I believe it was over there by K Kaiser, wherever it was. And they have that, they got an area over there that makes them manufactured homes or whatever. And along that side of that fence. They had unmanaged campings. Right. And just the, yeah.
John Marshall | 28:31
So rows of tents and.
Sterling Cunio | 28:33
And so just the, I, just the contrast of people being homeless next to empty homes, kind of like kind of the first thing that pierced the veil. To me.
And Then I started seeing it. Everywhere. Parks, people sleeping on the bench. And a crisis that others had gradually seen increase, I was seeing all at once. 30 years ago, it was...
You know, it was rare. And now all of a sudden. It's everyone. And I had knew, you know, I committed my life. To being of service. To others, but I had knew that the majority of my service had been in a violence context and I didn't want to come out outside of a violent context and then go work on the front lines of violence? And so I was actually a little worried about what it was, how it was that I was going to continue to help. And I knew.
I mean, I knew right then when I seen that. So I started, I started volunteering at first. I came home in November and then there was like these record winners and freezes and everything else. And I was, volunteering at warming shelters at first. And... It's interesting because there was two contrasts that I was having. I was having this contrast of being amongst myself You know. Very. Apparently successful people by have all of the material. Statuses and everything else. And I was finding so much disgenuineness. And, Fragile. Ness.
John Marshall | 30:57
The success and the goodness was.
Sterling Cunio | 30:59
Surface. And then... As I'm The kind of the authentic. There's just something about being stripped of everything that when you finally start to acquire stuff, you don't take on some of the false pretenses or the airs or you got to worry about the image of the etiquettes. And, you know, and so I'd actually found that the relationships that I would the conversations that I was having with those struggling to stay real. Warm? In a frigid night felt more real than the conversations I have with the influential that was complaining about people sleeping on the street and from their warm homes on Twitter or whatever it is. Right. And so I was actually having a conversation along those lines with a long term partner. And NBC mentor, Tim Buckley. Tim's a friend of Church of the Park. He's the one that introduced me to Sam and DJ. And Yeah, no. I was actually on my way. To start work I had another place when I talked to Sam. *laughs* And I went down there and told them, I like showed up and told them that, you know, changed my mind. I was going to come work with Church of the Park. And since I've been here, it has become... It's became my community, you know? I... I come back to Salem, you know, I'm based in the Salem area and But when I come back, you know, one of. The things that I'm most thankful that I get to do is go to Village of Hope and just walk through there. Just walk through there. Come to Allstaff.
Yeah, no. And just to like it's a full circle. Moment for me. I got a very complicated relationship with the city, right? With being in Salem. And you know, on one hand, You know, it's where I've experienced my greatest harms. And it's where I've committed. My greatest harms. And on the other hand is where I've experienced the greatest community. It's where I've experienced my greatest loves. Right. And I can't help but to notice contrast and atmosphere and the services available to the misfortunate whenever I get to go and see these other places.
Yeah.
John Marshall | 34:01
As you're speaking, I'm thinking contrasts. So often is the place where we discover, we learn something, or, you know, become enlightened by virtue of difference. And so... What have you noticed about Salem and... Not just Church of the Park, but the multiple services that exist here, how do those compare and contrast to What's available in other places of the country? And how do you make sense of... Homelessness in Salem on a acute You know, level and then how do you make sense of homelessness as a reality that exists everywhere?
Sterling Cunio | 34:48
Man, I don't know if I can make sense of it, honestly... And... I don't necessarily know if I want to try to take on all the pieces and figure out how they fit. Leave that to a bigger brain than mine, like DJ. I just try to figure out what I can do. And I figured out that the best I can do is just be a light where I am when I can. But there is some observations, you know, for context. I've, I...
You know, I was, It's only been in the last... Two years. I've been home three and a half, and it's only been in the last two that I've had the opportunity to travel, kind of frequently And... That has been primarily with art. I'm working, my main time commitment is to Mbuntum Commons Initiative. And we could talk about that a little bit more, but that is the 2021 initiative. Climate breakthrough awardee fellowship project that's the most prestigious thing in the climate space. And I get to work for the first black woman to ever have it and only the second American. And we're working on- Who is that? That's Dr. Denise Fairchild.
So literally, there's- efforts around the world. And I... M. Employed to use art. And this is the joy that we was talking about and how do we use artists and creatives to deliver messages of communities while people are working on land regeneration and policy and organizing and, you know, very similar to what.
You know, we were doing with the storytelling project while we have all these incredible people running this amazing organization, this community, developing little communities. Somehow I was fortunate enough to where I just get to tell and share stories. And so very similar with them boom tomb. I, I'm fortunate in the fact that I get to work on the artistic interpretation of these joys and these hopes that we're experiencing. Getting and amplifying of Thousands and millions of people being a solution together, whether we're talking about decentralized communities, maker economies, you know. The commons projects all over. Right. And I'm learning. And so anyway. With that is crazy. Been taking me to various places, Washington, D.C., Atlanta.
You know, we went to Alabama as a part of the Empowerment Initiative, California, Utah, just all these different places. And whenever I go to a place, I always go and I make up a practice of temporarily adopting an unsheltered president, like somebody in that city, somebody who's sleeping out on the streets. I'll go, I'll introduce myself. I, you know, a lot of the times in those conferences or in the hotels, you know, you could take you a extra plate when, you know, before, and I'll go deliver it. And so, and when I'm there, everywhere I go, I always talk to the people living on the street.
You know, I'm, It doesn't matter. There's literally been days where when In the morning, I had the opportunity to talk with Al Gore and some of the members of President Biden's executive cabinet that was a part of the White House Domestic Council.
And then in the evening, then hanging out.
John Marshall | 39:11
You're on the street.
Sterling Cunio | 39:12
I'm on the street. You know, sharing food. Right and I do that Everywhere I go. And I talked to him. And I'm always...
You know, my experience has been in Salem. Where you know, if you're On the streets. In Salem. You... At least know where you can go Proud to access resources. Right. They know.
You know, people, if you're in Bush, if you're over a Wallace, they need no outreach. There's multiple organizations, you know, Right. And even the vibe, the relationship, the atmosphere of those who might not. Even care. There's a bunch of people that don't care about homelessness and blame those, you know, and use the most acute case as the face of everybody that's experienced, you know, right? And, It's it. Eat. It's not, there's a different feel here. Because of some of the other places that we just came back from new Orleans down there with the hurricane Katrina's 20th year anniversary and the week of action. And you know, It'll know services.
John Marshall | 40:47
There's no services.
Sterling Cunio | 40:48
In New Orleans. There's like hardly, you know, and they're like, there's nothing. And it's just a different type of, you know, they have very limited. There's always a few people. Sure. Everywhere. But there isn't, A partner, like if you look at the like churches, a park is developed a community and is in collaboration and partnership with the community to solve a community problem in these other places is usually just a small group of people. Trying to do something because it's the right thing to do.
You know, but there's not this. You know. You don't see this much You know, you don't see this model.
John Marshall | 41:31
Infrastructure. There's not as much.
Sterling Cunio | 41:36
And one of the things that I think this model does is it infuses care. Into the larger atmosphere into the larger environment that may not show up. On all of the matrices. Right. And all of the measures and so on and so forth. But we at least know that we're in a community to where every day there's people out here with backpacks going down paths, you know, seeing if people need help. Basic supply seeing if their pets need supplies You know, we know that we're in a community to where people might drive by and scream out nasty things But when it gets freezing there's gonna be a bunch of people that volunteer to stay up in the middle of the night to man gyms and pass out meals and Yeah. And so that's always something that I find remarkable. About What we get to do.
So.
John Marshall | 42:46
As I'm listening to you, I'm thinking about various questions faces and voices that I've interacted with where as I attempt to share a similar story about going out with backpacks and offering food and basic supplies and meeting really in the moment needs. There's still... Among many folks a skepticism about is that really the right thing to do As you mentioned your experience in New Orleans and those places where there isn't as much infrastructure and, collaboration at an institutional level to provide care. You do still mention people who are motivated by the right thing to do. I'm curious how you start to add that moral layer of rightness and goodness on to serve us.
Sterling Cunio | 43:44
I mean... You know, one, Let me... Be clear, it ain't just in, like, Louisiana and Alabama.
Like, you got parts of Oregon too. Let's go. Are very close that have very similar like, you know, Let them be damned. Type mentality, right? Not in my backyard and everything else. For me, I don't try to put any...
You know, I don't really know how to answer that question because it ain't like I have a moral... Ball. To subscribe to you know I just know. For me. That I went through All of the hardest. Shit. That hardliners Say as needed. I seen it. Seen it at all.
Right? Everything from the structural sanctions to the unofficial Holy's beatings.
Right? So I've went, Through it. And. All of. The harshness just made me harder. What? Ended up One healing me. Restoring me and ultimately transforming me was love and people's support. All right. And It wasn't. Until I committed. Malt Life. The VN. A better person? That my world They came back.
So I don't do shit. Because...
You know, what others might think or what, a set of You know. Practice beliefs or embodied or, you know, people get their. Their moral guidance from different sources for me is I committed myself to just being the best person. I could be. And that's going to be lifelong. And I just hope that by the time it ends. That decades and decades of trying to do what I could when I can and how I can was enough to show that, you know, There's more than single narratives about people. The sum. I'm always going to be that absolute. Worst human being that you can be, but those ain't the ones that are just going to help us make a better society.
Sorry. Not to be adversarial. I know that. Dang it. A little more traded. But, I mean, you always going to have naysayers. And to act like we don't is being naive. You're always going to have naysayers. You're always going to have people that justify apathy to...
You know, because if you're not apathetic, then you have to be empathetic. And if you're empathetic, then you have to act.
So it's easier to be apathetic, blame the people that are suffering the issues and the problems. And you don't have to do nothing except be righteous, right? And so you're always going to have that. You're always going to have that. You're always, it doesn't, you know, that was something that I went through in my own personal life.
You know, when I told people I was done hustling, done doing all of this, I'm committing to nonviolence. It was the people that was closest to me. That it took the longest to believe that. Right.
John Marshall | 48:02
Because they knew the full.
Sterling Cunio | 48:03
Story. Because they knew that, like, I was so far.
Like, they just absolutely couldn't believe it. I wasn't going to punch somebody when I got back. Definitely.
You know, that's like people believe in. I'm going to answer my emails now. Right. But it was true then. And so it is. It, You know, 2008. 2008, got away from the gang. And committed a criminal act since 2008.
You know? 2009. Was my last act of physical violence. And in my evolution, I'm starting to understand language and dietary choices and economic choices and you know there's multiple forms of violence but when I say violence I'm talking about physical violence that could put you grave, hospital, whatever, right? 2009. And 2019, 2020, like there's always going to be like Yeah, no. Of The good that I was able to do while I was inside, there was, there was, you know, always, The skepticism, the doubt, Yeah, no... But those ain't the ones that empower. It's the few that come through and believe and recognized in my humanity.
Like I've been all the worst. I've wore all them labels at one season or another. And it wasn't the masses. That condemned that nourished the transformation towards the batter, it was always the few.
So I don't spend a lot of time worrying about the naysayers or the condemners. Because it's the few that make the difference.
John Marshall | 50:19
To close our time, I want to give you a few more minutes just to talk about Ubuntu Commons and the work you're up to there. You shared a little bit about what it is and what you've gotten to do already. What are you excited to do in your future with Ubuntu? That.
Sterling Cunio | 50:35
Project. Man, the thing that I'm most excited about right now is next year, the beginning of the year, we're going to launch a national and possibly global dining room table campaign, you know, because we want to activate people. To remember joy, we want to activate people to think about land, culture, ceremony, and our ability to be an asset to our community where we are. Right. And so we're going to have this is that's literally it's going to be in Buntum Dinners campaign to where. Our network of networks and our Marsilio partners, various people all across the country are going to basically be doing community benefit days in which we're going to be play music, artists, craft, popular education.
Right? Popular education in which What various communities, all various communities are speaking to the issues in their communities. But the unifying frame is going to be the ability of the community to respond to the problems that the community faces. And we don't have to build blocks. We don't have to build huge nonprofits and...
Social movements. We can get active with our group of friends, with our family members. We can start figuring out how to get involved in little ways around our dining room tables.
So instead of having one big, huge impact, what we've been focusing on is how to activate tens of thousands of little activations and then use artists And to amplify these thousands of solutions like every day all across this world, there's legions of people doing incredible great work and incredible things. But that's not the main narrative. All right. That's not the main narrative.
So, Next year, we're going to be waging joy. And activating and organizing and mobilizing people around dinners to address community problems through community solutions.
John Marshall | 53:21
If someone wanted... Participate or get involved in that project. Can they? How did they?
Sterling Cunio | 53:27
Absolutely. Get in touch.
I mean, I'm, there's going to be a few in dinner. There's, I believe we're going to be collaborating with, transformative justice community with Chemeca. There's going to be a few in Oregon and itself, and I'm pretty sure I would talk to DJ and our team to do it, you know, but it's, To be determined. Okay. They're going to be coming next year. That's part of the whole Costa Rica thing.
Yeah, tuned.
John Marshall | 54:04
So stay.
Sterling Cunio | 54:05
Stay tuned. Check back in. You'll hear about it if I do my job right.
John Marshall | 54:13
Well, I look forward to that. I think. It's a really beautiful imagination of how to invite people into a space that is simultaneously safe and welcoming. And transformative.
So I really hope that goodness comes out of that project. It.
Sterling Cunio | 54:31
Is, man. You know, people, it's in the darkest moments when people begin to look for the faintest of light.
You know, and is as, "Times appear to be a gloomier It's just going to become more and more necessary for us to figure out how to be lights in our everyday life. You know We don't need to get super philosophical about the big picture. When we can just say hello. To somebody that we're walking by every day.
John Marshall | 55:11
Well, just because I'm curious and you, in these gloomy moments, where are you finding joy right now?
Sterling Cunio | 55:18
Man, I got a puppy. I got an RV. I got it. Music, you know, every, we all have our different seasons and here's the thing.
So many of the systems that we are all working to, or not all of us, many of us are working to dismantle or reform or transform or any of them, those systems, those problems, those layers of oppression, they didn't involve in a single generation. So to think that we're going to take it upon ourselves and just eliminate that globally within a single lifetime. That seems to be like setting ourselves up for... - Some disappointment. - A huge disappointment. If not a bunch of anxiety, a stress, questions of does it all, what's it all for? But if what we understand is that we are on this planet for just a blink of an eye. And how we live. Gets to contribute We can either contribute to solutions of joy, ideas, imagination. That. Is. What's important is that If we know that we're authentically committed to being our best selves, that is going to leave a contribution. And That's where I get my joy from.
You know, that's where I get my joy from. And I'm not naive to. Difficulty, struggle, but I know the most. Horrific part of my own personal life was when I was hopeless. And when I didn't have any dreams. And when all I had was regrets and guilt. That was the most difficult part. Time. And now I'm a dream junkie. I dream all the time. I dream so much it interrupts my sleep. And the more I'm able to align my actions and my intent and try to inspire others. Brings me joy. And motorcycles.
John Marshall | 57:54
Bye.
Sterling Cunio | 57:55
And poetry and brie cheese and chocolate and M&M's all kinds of stuff except airplanes which I gotta go get on you.
John Marshall | 58:03
Gotta go get on so that's Close our time so we can get you on that airplane. And get you to Costa Rica. Sterling, thank you. For being with us. The way that we close every episode is to ask 10 kind of rapid fire questions to get to know you All right. A little better.
Some of them are silly. Some of them are meaningful. You ready for these? Let's go. Okay. Sterling, what is the best dessert?
Sterling Cunio | 58:30
Pineapple upside down cake with chocolate ice cream.
John Marshall | 58:35
A genie grants you one wish. What do you wish for?
Sterling Cunio | 58:38
I want to be a genie.
John Marshall | 58:40
Would you rather go back in time and meet your ancestors or travel to the future and meet your descendants?
Sterling Cunio | 58:47
I'd really go forward, I think... Because I don't know how... The times would have I mean, maybe. We go forward and find ourselves backwards. Who knows? I don't know. It just seems like, I think we're progressing, honestly. It might not seem like it now, but I think overall. The human species is. Evolving and I believe in the future.
Some of the stuff that we think is so horrific now Or some of the stuff that is normal now will look back and be like, yo, what were we thinking? And I would rather have that vantage point Because, you know, if we go back, then some of the stuff we have now would seem beyond people's imagination then. And I don't know if I'd do good in that context because I'm struggling now to. Vision better.
John Marshall | 59:53
Cats or dogs.
Sterling Cunio | 59:54
Dogs and cats. I don't like the cat or, but I have a dog.
John Marshall | 59:59
Apples or oranges?
Sterling Cunio | 01:00:02
Apples.
John Marshall | 01:00:03
Favorite smell.
Sterling Cunio | 01:00:06
Rain.
John Marshall | 01:00:07
What is one thing you would add to Salem to make it better?
Sterling Cunio | 01:00:10
Music. More music, more musical diversity, and more support for musicians and artists.
John Marshall | 01:00:22
Yeah. What piece of advice has helped you the most?
Sterling Cunio | 01:00:25
Be nice to everybody you meet because you never know when you're talking to an angel.
John Marshall | 01:00:31
What is your favorite thing about yourself?
Sterling Cunio | 01:00:34
My ability to dream through adversity.
John Marshall | 01:00:37
And speaking of dreams, what is your biggest hope for your future?
Sterling Cunio | 01:00:42
That is long. You know, that is long. Just now getting to...
You know, I'm in the middle of a dream and it's just starting to become lucid. But I'm at that point to where... Things are hurting again. I just, I hope I get to have a long life. And I hope that I can... Continue To. Support and show up in ways that are encouraging for, others that might still be struggling towards a dream, I want to... Know or I don't want to know I would like to have I would like to be able to offer support to, Just the improvement of life.
Like I'm doing that until I die. And I hope I don't die for a while.
John Marshall | 01:01:48
Well, thank you. So much for saying yes to the conversation. Thank you for doing this. Sees light in dark places. And points it out. And I'm so grateful that you exist and that you love the world into a more beautiful version of itself. And that you invite the people around you to look more intentionally for the light. To think more intentionally about the realities that we take for granted. And to consider how the world might actually change if we just showed up and did something. I'm really grateful.
Sterling Cunio | 01:02:20
Thank you for doing this. I appreciate it.
John Marshall | 01:02:24
And thank you listeners for joining us for this episode of the humanity of homelessness. Thanks again to Sterling for his vulnerability and courage to share his story. We hope his life serves as testimony to the rest of us that there is always good news to celebrate in hard places. And that all of our neighbors are worth our time and attention. If you'd like to remain connected with us at Church of the Park, please visit our website at churchatthepark.org. There you can find opportunities to volunteer, subscribe to our newsletter and weekly liturgy reflections, and stay in the know about our current and future projects. We have an online portal for financial giving. If you have questions for us or want to connect for a cup of coffee, we have lots of team members who would love to pay for your cup. Email us at info at churchatthepark.org. Again, that's info, I-N-F-O, at churchatthepark.org. Thanks, y'all. Until next time.