Ep. 154: Sheep Hunting, Grizzly Bears & the Outdoor Community

Recorded live at the Wild Sheep Society of BC's Western Hunting Expo, this episode brings together industry leaders and passionate outdoorsmen to discuss the evolution of hunting, firearms policy, and conservation efforts. Join Travis Bader, Sean Zubor, and Joe Eppele as they explore the deeper meaning of hunting beyond the harvest, the importance of unified advocacy, and the shifting societal views on outdoor traditions. From grizzly bear conservation to firearms legislation and the camaraderie of the hunting community, this conversation pulls no punches. Whether you're a seasoned hunter or new to the outdoors, this episode will change the way you think about the future of our wild spaces.

 

🔹 Inside This Episode:
✅ The real impact of the Wild Sheep Society on conservation
✅ Why hunting is seeing a resurgence (and why that matters)
✅ The firearms debate – is it really about public safety?
✅ Grizzly bear populations, conservation, and human-wildlife conflict
✅ How hunting unites people from all walks of life
✅ Why protecting outdoor traditions requires a different approach

📢 Silvercore Club Members: Get 25% off Beretta Group clothing and 10% off everything else on Stoeger Canada! Join the Silvercore Club today: [link]

 

https://www.wildsheepsociety.com/ https://www.instagram.com/seanzubor/ https://www.instagram.com/joe_eppele/

 

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Silvercore Club - https://bit.ly/2RiREb4
Online Training - https://bit.ly/3nJKx7U
Other Training & Services - https://bit.ly/3vw6kSU
Merchandise - https://bit.ly/3ecyvk9
Blog Page - https://bit.ly/3nEHs8W

Host Instagram - @Bader.Trav https://www.instagram.com/bader.trav
Silvercore Instagram - @SilvercoreOutdoors https://www.instagram.com/silvercoreoutdoors

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Episode Highlights & Timestamps:

 [00:00:00] - Introduction: Wild Sheep Society Expo & Beretta Group Partnership
 [00:02:10] - How hunting brings people together from different backgrounds
 [00:04:04] - What the Wild Sheep Society really does for conservation
 [00:09:57] - Why is hunting becoming “cool” again?
 [00:13:17] - Hunting as the ultimate equalizer – shared struggles, shared rewards
 [00:17:41] - The mental clarity that comes from hunting & being outdoors
 [00:30:07] - The problem with banning grizzly bear hunting
 [00:35:59] - Do ravens lead hunters to success? A theory on birds & gut piles
 [00:42:55] - The "death by a thousand cuts" approach to firearms bans
 [00:50:38] - Why logical arguments won’t work against emotional policy-making

 

What is The Silvercore Podcast with Travis Bader?

The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.

Kind: captions
Language: en-GB

Travis Bader: This podcast was recorded
on location at the Wild Sheep Society of

BC's Western Hunting Expo in Penticton.

My friend, Sean said, Trev, you got to
bring up some of your recording equipment.

Let's record a podcast
while we're up there.

The good folks at the Beretta Group.

Offered to let us use their
booth to record this podcast.

And if you're not familiar
with the bread, a group.

They own Sakotika, Beretta, Norma
Ammunition, and a whole slew of other

companies I'm sure you've heard of.

They are the oldest firearms
business in the world.

They're coming up on 500 years
of operation, which is crazy.

And they are generously providing
all Silvercorp club members with 25

percent off of all regularly priced
clothing on the Stoger Canada website.

And 10 percent off everything else.

I bring this up.

Because I'm extremely proud of what
the Silvercore Club is able to offer.

I love the Beretta Group.

I use Beretta shotguns.

I use Sakotika rifles.

I wear the clothing and I want
to be able to share the things

that I like with other people and
with the Silvercore Club members.

If that helps you get outside
and look stylish and have kit

that works, I want to be able to
help you thrive in the outdoors.

Now, without further ado,
let's get on with this episode.

We've got Sean Zabor from Silvercore
Joe Appel from Silvercore Podcast 140.

Missing, we will have to
just send our regrets.

Missing is Kyle Stetler from
Silvercore Podcast, if I

remember right, it was number 38.

He was one of the early guys on there.

He was an OG.

Yeah.

The fact that you memorize
that is very impressive.

I'm not going to lie.

I got on the phone and I had
to look it up ahead of time.

And I will forget all of
that in a couple of hours.

I can barely remember my name.

The fact that you did that was great.

It's pretty cool how we're able to bring
all these different cultures together.

I, I walked through at
the trade show here.

So Sean, you've got Stonehouse Realty.

That's, that's your business.

Sean Zubor: Yep.

So we're selling real estate, but,
uh, as you guys know, my main gig

is selling high rises and all the
other kinds of commercial jazz, but

my passion and heart is always been
in hunting since I was 10 years old.

So, uh, putting one, two
together, we're helping people.

We're moving guide outfitters now
looking for properties like lakefront

properties and rural properties,
hunting properties, fishing properties,

and yeah, it's, it's, it's a blast.

We've met a ton of people, got a lot
of new clients, a lot of new friends.

It's been an awesome show so far.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

You know, I'm loving the
vibe of this show too.

And there's, it was funny.

Uh, it's been pointed out more than
once on this show that, uh, if wild

sheep really wants to promote this
and get women into the wild sheep

society, just let them know that
there's affluent, fit, uh, Bearded.

Yeah.

Attempted bearded.

Yeah.

Attempted bearded.

And Joe, of course, you were
emceeing the event there last night.

Joe Eppele: Trying to.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

Joe Eppele: Are you
doing it again tonight?

I'm not.

I'm off the hook.

I think that's part of the reason why Kyle
wasn't able to join us is he's got to do

all of the heavy lifting this evening.

Travis Bader: Got it.

So he's gonna be in front
of the mic doing the mc bit.

Absolutely.

Sean Zubor: I love it.

I just wanted to point out too
that I'm six one and I may look

really short in this video, but
I'm actually not that short.

These guys are just giants.

Joe Eppele: I think that's why we
positioned you to the front by the camera.

So actually was

Sean Zubor: actually was, yeah.

I've never felt like a midget my
entire life until today, so, but that's

funny, actually, you mentioned it.

So my girlfriend was straight up
saying that she's got a friend that.

It's a single and she's
like, she should be here.

Every guy here is six
foot five and taller.

It feels like all working
out, all doing well.

It's a great community.

Definitely.

Joe Eppele: I mean, look at all
the guys walking around, just

rugged mountain men that can get
out there and survive off the land.

What more could a gal want?

Sean Zubor: Exactly.

Ladies, you got to get into sheep hunting
or at least hunting and come to the show.

Join the wild sheep society.

Travis Bader: So that's an interesting
one too, because Wild Sheep

Society is something people say,
well, I'm not interested in sheep.

Why?

You know, I like moose hunting,
I like deer hunting, but sheep?

But it's so much more than just sheep.

The Wild Sheep Society concentrates on
habitat, and they concentrate on the

same grounds that the deer are going
to be on, that the moose are going to

be on, that the elk are going to be on.

Sean Zubor: Yeah.

And it's funny that you mentioned that.

So right now we just implemented this
program that every home that we sell,

we're putting a small portion away.

Our goal is to like fundraise
between five to 10 grand next

year for the wild sheep society.

Right.

But I tell my clients and they're
like, uh, but don't you hunt them?

I'm like, so you're trying to make
more so you could shoot them up?

Like, yeah, kind of, but the reality
is, and I think everybody that's into

conservation, into hunting knows that
almost all conservation, if not all of

it comes from hunters one way or another.

And especially with the wild sheep
society, it's, it's about having a legacy

that our kids and our families down
the line, we'll be able to hunt these

sheep for years and years and years.

And, um, I think one thing is
a big misconception for myself.

Anyways, I've hunted everything.

my entire life.

And I feel like sheep hunting is something
that is just as much of adventure

as it is hunting in and of itself.

But, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's a funny
conversation with clients when you're

telling them these things, because it
seems like an oxymoron that, yeah, we do

harvest these animals, we do kill them.

But the reality is, is you do it
very, very few and far between, um, in

comparison to how many times you go out.

But the fact that they're there
because of societies like this is And

Joe Eppele: the funds raised at events
like this go back into, it's so much

more than just harvesting an animal
and putting more on the mountain.

It's about education on making sure
when you do harvest an animal, how

to harvest the right one, make sure
you're focusing on mature age class.

And then also the funds go to
habitat restoration, habitat

protection, different areas where.

You know, farm sheep are getting too
close to our wild sheep, introducing

diseases, a lot of that stuff
that most people aren't aware of.

That's what a lot of
these funds go towards.

So it's a habitat restoration.

Um, you know, right now, huge projects
going along the Fraser River with

Movi, what's been going on there.

The capturing, testing, making sure
we're moving those diseased sheep.

Um, so it's a lot of that that goes on
and that stuff has so much more impact.

In the big, you know, picture.

So, yes, the community does harvest
and remove some of those rams, but the

number of rams that are back on the
mountain because of groups like Wild

Sheep Society BC, and if you look at it,
I mean, look at the numbers, no group.

In conservation period from what I
have seen is making sure that the money

that comes in goes directly out boots
on the ground projects for everything.

Sean Zubor: Yeah, it's pretty amazing.

Uh, what the wild sheep society
actually does and what everybody

here is to really support that.

I mean, we all love the gear we all
love and we're going to talk about

that huge shout out to Tika for
letting us use their booth and all

the guys that Italian everybody else.

But, um, you're here for the sport,
the love, the hobby of, of, uh, Uh,

sheep hunting, but the reality is, is
everybody's just as behind to actually

like, like, I've never been to any kind
of event where everybody's doing every

kind of like 50, 50 draw or gun draw
or this, like everybody's putting money

into everything, you know, and they
know the likelihood of winning this

close to zilch, like every other draw.

Right.

But it's, for them, it's just a way
of giving and it's, it's something

that really impresses me how, how
tight knit this specific community

is really started to become.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

Yeah, the amount of money
these organizations raise.

Uh, Wild Sheep Foundation in the States?

How much did that ticket go for?

Wasn't that a record, a record record?

700k

Sean Zubor: or something?

US?

I thought it was over a million.

Over a million?

Joe Eppele: Wasn't it over a million?

Yeah, I think the, the, I'm trying
to remember the exact number.

See, you have all the numbers,
you're the man with the numbers.

I didn't.

You're supposed to have
them all memorized.

I wanted to remember you ahead of time.

This is where we need Kyle.

Kyle would have that on
the tip of his tongue.

Absolutely.

Travis Bader: Actually, Joe,
I got something here for you.

I was going to give it to you
last time I was at your place.

Completely forgot.

There you go.

Here's an official crab measure
when you're out there in Squamish.

Yes, it has my name on it So if
it gets lost, it'll be returned.

Joe Eppele: I love it.

That is a big boy crab measure I
got this little rinky dink thing,

but this is a Absolutely perfect

Travis Bader: floating on that guy.

You're out there.

You're in the water drop it.

It's all good And it's not
going to break or crack.

That's a commercial crab measure.

Joe Eppele: Thank you very much.

I appreciate it.

Travis Bader: I forgot that
one from the last time.

Joe Eppele: I love it.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

That's one of the things
I see here at the show.

Everybody here is very, very
passionate about the outdoors.

And we've got hunters, we've got
anglers, we have people who are into

mountain hunting, we've got people
who are into a whitetail, into a

blacktail, into a mule deer, into moose.

I mean, it's the whole gamut here.

But when I talk with people, what
it really boils down to, it's

just their love of being outside.

Just their love with that connection
with their natural environment.

Sean Zubor: I think.

I think the world we're in right now.

I think there's a lot of
positive change happening.

There's been a lot of crazy stuff
over the last few years or decades.

And we've been kind of, uh, uh, what's
the best way going away from our

traditions of hunting, but I think a
lot of guys out there, like you have,

like the Joe Rogans of the world, you
guys that are really kind of promoting

what it's all about, and I think it is.

I think the general public, and I'm
hoping that this is coming across, the

general public is starting to realize
it's not just about killing animals.

It's really about getting out there
as a community, it's family, it's,

it's, uh, so many different things.

It's wildlife in its, in and of itself,
protecting our resources, right?

Like, even if we look at history, there
wouldn't be any national parks in the

States if there wasn't Theodore Roosevelt,
you know, and, you know, one of my idols,

and that guy was a massive hunter, right?

So, um, it's nice to see.

It becoming cool again, for lack of
a word, to get out there and hunt.

Why do you think that is?

Travis Bader: Why is
it becoming cool again?

Joe Eppele: Joe, what do you think?

Travis Bader: It's because
of people like Joe.

I would not, I would not put

Joe Eppele: my name on that one.

Um, I honestly think, uh, everybody
hates to talk about COVID, but I

think during COVID, there was a big
push when we had all those confined.

You know, you weren't
allowed to travel outside.

Then they deemed food acquisition
as an essential service.

So people could fish and people
could hunt and still travel.

But it seemed like everybody stopped
being so busy with traveling to

distant places and they started
looking at what was around them.

But I think there was a big push back
into holistic nutrition, you know,

becoming physically fit, getting outdoors.

And I did notice a big uptake.

I think that was some of the biggest
spikes we've had in, uh, fishing license

sales, new tags, new hunters coming into
the fold from what I read back then.

Um, and I just think it's
transition people really.

Slow down and looked at what mattered
the most and you talked about it earlier.

It's all these people getting together
about their love of the outdoors.

All it takes is that will first trip
into the mountains for most people.

And right away, you either know
if you love it or you hate it.

And I think the vast majority of
people have forgotten how much they

truly love and rely on the outdoors.

Because the outdoors teaches you
so much about who you are as an

individual, but it's also an opportunity.

I mean, you see a lot of families walking
around here with their kids, their

second, third generation in the society.

Um, and, and it's an opportunity
for you to get out completely

disconnect from everything and soak
up what really matters the most.

I mean, you get out there, it's humbling.

It doesn't matter if you're,
I mean, there's a lot of

guides walking around here.

You see guys at guide camp, there's
millionaires and there's wrench pullers

in the hunt camp and it's just, it's
everything's broken down to the basics.

And, um, I think that's a big part
of what people are starting to see

again is, you know, in a time where
there's so much divide between groups,

everybody seems like they're splitting,
finding a community that's just,

it brings everybody back together.

And it doesn't matter, you know, if
you're the richest guy in the room, the

poorest guy in the room, whatever it is,
like the mountains, you can't cheat the

mountains, the mountains don't lie, right?

Everybody is on the same playing
field once you get out there.

And I think there's just
something special about that.

And I mean, you guys see it this weekend.

Like it's just such a good, warm
environment being here this weekend, the

banquets, you sit down and it's just,
everybody's there having fun together.

It's that kind of traditional value.

It's those good community vibes.

Um, I think people are
starting to come back to that.

And again, to your, to your note, you
know, the, the Joe Rogans of the world,

people like that certainly do put it on.

Not a pedestal, but on a platform
and they do it in a well placed way.

Um, Travis, I think you do a
phenomenal job in educating people

and kind of breaching those divides.

You know, there's a lot of education.

We're opening the doors to people.

I think there was a lot in the past where
it was, it was made to be a community

that was kind of kept to the side.

And now all these other groups are
trying to shut us down so much.

It's like, okay, well, we need
to open ourselves up, raise our

voice because like our way of
life is being targeted right now.

And if we don't start standing up.

We, we can't get by with just
having small numbers anymore.

We need large numbers.

So we have a larger voice.

So I think there's a lot of
different pieces falling into place

and why it's becoming popular.

Um, but yeah, I think it
ultimately comes down to just.

Once you're in the mountains, the
people that are getting pushed

to expose themselves to it.

Once you're out there, you
really realize how important

it is to have that way of life.

Travis Bader: It is a grand leveler.

And I haven't seen another activity
that's so egalitarian in its nature.

You've got, like, multi millionaires
sitting down at the table.

Last night we're at the table with,
uh, three young hunting guides.

Was it JT?

Help me?

Carter

Joe Eppele: and

Travis Bader: Carson.

Yeah, Carter LaVallee and Carson.

Carson Lavallee and Carter.

No, I got it backwards.

They'll crack me on here.

They drove 12 hours to be down here.

And I think they're sleeping
in the trailer, they said,

out in the parking lot.

Joe Eppele: Don't tell anybody,
because they'll get a ticket.

But there is a horse
trailer parked out front.

The boys, they got off
work Thursday night.

And yeah, jumped in the pickup truck,
drug their horse trailer out here.

They just wanted to be
here and experience it.

Some boys from Alberta.

Yep.

Um, I've actually hunted
with some way up north.

They were wranglers on one of my trips.

And just salt of the earth, guys.

Just wanted to be here and
be a part of the energy

Travis Bader: right and and they fit
in just side by side with the people

who are multimillionaires and it's just
Everyone's here for the exact same reason.

It's for their love of the outdoors.

That commonality,

Sean Zubor: that ground that they share.

And I think one of the things too is,
is, and I'm sure, I mean, you guys all

have kids, you got a brand new one.

Congratulations.

Um, my oldest hunter is turning 10.

He's actually going to be in your
course in March, as soon as he turns 10.

And all he's talking about is
going on his first bear hunt.

We shot a few grouse last year, and
a couple other things, super excited.

I tell you, as I'm sure you guys
are aware, they get sucked into

the YouTube, to these iPads, to
this, you know, these, these social

networks that we're all a part of.

Don't get me wrong.

Sure.

You know, we all, all do the
YouTube and Instagram and all

that jazz, but I, I think.

As we become closer via social media,
we really become much more separated and

individualistic and so on and so forth.

And we get these dopamine hits from
people liking us and following us that

are totally not real, you know what
I mean, for lack of a better word.

And I think there really is very few
things in this world that we get to truly

experience that is legitimately real.

You know, and when you're in the forest,
when you're in the bush, when you're got a

pack on your back, and just like you guys
said, it's the ultimate level, it makes

no difference what that guy does, or has
done in the past, or making money, doesn't

make money, it's, you guys are both
suffering, you know what I mean, you've

both got packs, you're both going up the
same mountain, like, it is, it is, The

ultimate, um, equalizer of individuals.

And, and I think it's very few times that
I realize that I'm actually in the moment.

I'm not thinking about, you know, what
happened yesterday with business or

where I'm planning or my goals are,
or all these other things are just

like, yeah, just don't fall off this
cliff, you know, like do not die.

Next step.

That's about it.

Right.

So, um, yeah, it's, it's, uh,
almost like a form of meditation

to me in some sort of way.

It's pretty, pretty awesome.

Pretty profound for sure.

Joe Eppele: So I think it's the best
refresh, recharge, disconnect, whatever

you, I call it like reconnecting by
disconnecting, like, cause you go out

there and you've never felt more at peace.

Every time I go in the mountains, it
feels like it brings life back into

perspective because you truly do realize
like how much of these anxiety driven

behaviors or the stress you have going
on on a day to day basis, how much

of that is self imposed and not real.

And once you're out there, it's
like, okay, I'm in the mountains.

Um, am I going to be warm
enough to survive tonight?

Am I going to have enough food?

Am I going to have enough water?

Like, it's literally shelter, food, heat.

Like, that's what's going through
your mind, and then in those moments,

you know, when things are going,
like, the hunt's tough, or whatever

it is, you get weathered into your
tent for two, three days, and it's

like, okay, what do you miss the most?

Do you miss your family?

Like those types of things.

So then all of a sudden
everything falls into perspective.

All that other stuff
that you think matters.

You're like, does it really matter?

And it just, so then you come out of
the mountains and it's like, everything

in life makes sense and then you're
back out for too long and everything,

you know, it all gets muddled together
and you start stressing about the wrong

stuff and it's like, my wife will look
at me sometimes and be like, you need to

leave the house and go in the mountains.

And I don't, I'm like, okay,
she's doing that for me.

And I try and tell myself
she's doing that for me.

Maybe she just wants me out of the house,
but I do know that when I come back.

I try and remember and lock that
feeling in because Everything seems

so clear in the day to day as soon
as you come out of the mountains.

But then once you get right back
into that, that rat race and you're

back on that spinning wheel, it's
tough to keep it in that perspective.

Travis Bader: I do have a
hard time switching gears.

Personally, I, if I'm in the
mountains, if I'm out in the

bush, I don't want to leave.

When I come back into work and I got
everything coming in, I find it hard

to get back out into the mountains.

I want to be out there, but I know
I've got all these obligations and I

got all this work I gotta get done.

I have a hard time making a point.

A smooth transition between them.

It's

Joe Eppele: yeah, it's, it's one of those
funny things because like I said, it's,

I mean, when you leave, you do get that
opportunity to completely disconnect.

But when you disconnect, I mean,
as adults, we understand we have

responsibilities in the real life.

So you can't just walk away
from it and completely forget

that you do have bills to pay.

You do have these.

Not necessarily, they're not false
imposed kind of responsibilities.

They're real responsibilities as an
adult, especially as providing males.

Society tells us we have a lot
of these responsibilities that

we just have to do, right?

So when we do step outside,
you do go in the mountains.

You get to be a kid again.

You get to disconnect from all of that.

Which is a freedom that many people that
don't hunt never really, truly experience.

But there is on some level, I have
this guilt right up until the second

my boots hit the dirt and I'm out
of the truck or I'm out of service.

I have this guilt of, you
know, am I putting myself

ahead of my responsibilities?

Am I supposed to be, I don't wanna
say a martyr, but like, are you

supposed to just carry those burdens
and eat it on a day to day basis?

But over the years I've seen this
knowledge of like, okay, yes, this

time away is necessary because when
I come back, I am such a better

person that I'm able to do everything
else and deal with those burdens

and deal with those responsibilities
at such a higher level that it's

like this necessary give and take.

It's like.

When you're busy with
work, you're a fit guy.

When you're busy with work, sometimes
work's getting so like, okay, I

don't have a minute to spare today.

I'm not going to go to the gym.

You don't perform well that day.

You've got this fog, this
haze, and you don't realize it.

Cause you're like, I'm just
gonna keep my head down.

I'm going to get through it.

I don't have a minute to
spare to get to the gym.

If you take even 20 minutes to half
an hour to do a quick workout, get the

endorphins flowing, you're going to get
twice as much done that day, but you

had to sacrifice that window of time.

And I really do think, you know,
sometimes that time in the mountains

is like that 20 to 30 minute workout.

Sometimes it's only a day.

Sometimes it's a 14 day trip if you're
really lucky, but it will make you perform

at such a higher level at everything else.

Because again, you can prioritize,
you can function at a higher rate.

Sean Zubor: I think part of
it for me too is, is um, Sheep

hunting in general, I find it many
times as a type two kind of fun.

So if I'm going to two weeks and
I'm down 17 pounds in 10 days, and

I'm just like, there's a lot of
times I'm looking at my in reach.

I'm like that button looks good.

The come save me button.

So some of those times, and I'm like,
I'm never going to do this again.

That's happened.

My first sheep hunt.

And then on the flight out, I'm
already booking the next flight in.

Right.

So I think it's, it's nice
to have that disconnect, but.

Just like you said, I think if it a puts
everything in perspective for me Like

it is crazy to me how many people that
live in the lower mainland have never

been past like Kelowna or God forbid
Prince George and you talk about going

up to like, you know, where Muncho Lake
or something way up north there The

beauty that we're surrounded with it
just opens your eyes and most people

have never actually Laid under the stars
and seen an actual the stars without

light pollution, you know Like you don't
understand how bright it actually is

what Milky Way actually looks like right?

so I think it puts everything into
perspective plus I'm a big believer

just like in training that If you do
difficult things and sheep hunting

without a doubt is an incredibly difficult
things in most cases, everything else

in life just goes, comes a lot easier.

You know, like, I'm like, Oh, I
got to go to a business meeting.

I got to wake up at five.

Darn.

Like that's a lot easier.

Yeah, exactly.

It's a lot easier than sleeping
on in a tent, climbing up a

mountain with a 90 pound pack.

Right.

Then I overpacked like usual, you
know, it's, it's a completely,

completely different beast for sure.

Overpack as usual.

Travis Bader: Yeah, it's so easy to
do as well when you head out there.

Do I want to be comfortable?

Do I want to be lightweight?

I mean, the, our, I mean, modern
gear is getting better and you

can get some lightweight stuff,
but, uh, yeah, overpacking is one

of my, I end up finding stashes.

I don't know if you guys do that.

I end up going out there and
realizing, damn, I overpacked, and

I find a place to stash my kit.

I'm

Joe Eppele: guilty for the same.

Every time I come out of the bush, I try
and go through, so I have a checklist.

I have a Excel, online Excel sheet,
and I weigh every item when I buy it.

I weigh it so I know exactly what
each individual piece weighs.

So I have a checklist so I can.

Check everything and it kind of
totals my weight at the bottom tells

you what I'm expected great I got
my backpack exactly where I want it.

And then all of a sudden as it's like 48
hours before I leave Maybe I need this.

Oh, you know what?

I checked the weather again I might
need that and then the bag it's heavier

and heavier and then every time I
come out of the mountains I look

at my list and I what didn't I use

Sean Zubor: right

Joe Eppele: right and then
it's like, okay, you know what?

maybe I didn't need to bring
that but it's It's inevitable.

There's always times I bring stuff I
needed or I didn't need, I mean, but then

there's a few things that I pulled after
the last hunt, because I didn't use it and

I'm up there and I'm like, I would give
my left arm if I had that with me for the

Travis Bader: staff tech because
you're like, I overpacked, but if

I need to, I can hike back down.

I can grab this kit.

That's a smart,

Joe Eppele: I need to do that more.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

Just don't forget yourself up there.

I've done that one before too.

Sean Zubor: Yeah.

I'm just, I'm the worst.

I literally, I'm like, Oh, I need three
knives because this one does this.

This one does that.

And I'm just like, Oh yeah.

And then my back every single time I'm
picking up my buddy's pack versus my pack.

I'm like, what's going on here?

Makes no sense.

But yeah.

And when

Joe Eppele: you're six
foot, what are you eight?

Six.

I've done some heavy, maybe like six.

Seven and a half now, I've shrunk a bit.

I'm sure over the,

Travis Bader: yeah, everything
you own weighs more, your boots,

way more, your pants, way more,
your jacket weighs more food,

Joe Eppele: food is the biggest
struggle for me is I've found that

I'm constantly going, okay, am I going
to have enough calories for the day?

I want to be right at that bonk
level where at the end of the

day, I'm kind of just fading.

It's one of those things where it's
like, okay, you want to sneak in a bit

more calories, but as soon as you have
more calories, you're packed heavier and

you're gonna be burning more calories.

But I, my favorite thing though, is
when you're on the mountain every

day, I'm like, Oh, I just each day,
my backpack, I'm like, I got 1.

6 pounds later today.

This is great.

That mountain's going to feel
a little bit easier tomorrow.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

Do you

Joe Eppele: have a go

Travis Bader: to food?

Something that you have
to have in your back?

Joe Eppele: Well, um, maybe a little
luxury food, you know, one luxury food.

They're actually here at the show.

Um, Bruce, I got him to come.

It's a BC company, Enercheese.

The cheese

Travis Bader: that he's over there.

Joe Eppele: So it's great.

It's just like a freeze
dried cheese, which is good.

But the trick that I realized last year,
so I. I love a good fatty dinner at night.

I take a few of those freeze
dried chunks of cheese and I

throw them in my peak dinner.

And it'll actually kind
of like get gooey again.

Sean Zubor: Yeah.

Joe Eppele: That is a guilty,
guilty pleasure of mine.

Sean Zubor: Yeah, that makes sense.

It's just gonna rehydrate
basically, right?

Joe Eppele: So I thought it
was just gonna kind of powder

and give it that cheese flavor.

But it actually does turn into
that gooey cheese again, so.

We're all drooling now.

We might have to take,
we're going to take a break.

We're going to be right back.

Travis Bader: I do like
those cheesies for me.

It was always the one I'd bring out.

Hawkins

Sean Zubor: cheesies.

Travis Bader: Yeah, they're lightweight.

I put them in little plastic bags.

I divvy it up every single day.

I have to be disciplined.

I do not crave sweets.

I do crave salt.

What about the mountains?

Yeah,

Sean Zubor: I used to bring like sweets,
like, especially like, um, you know,

where they give you, uh, for Halloween
or something like that, the kid's stuff,

but then you're just, your gut just gets
nasty after a while from that stuff.

So now it's mainly, I'm just using
peak 99 percent of the time, but

when I threw him last year's hunt
or this year's hunt, I should say.

Last year's on technically, I
guess, um, was protein powder.

I've never done that before.

And, uh, so there's kind
of like a meal replacement.

It's a little bit higher
calorie protein power.

Cause we always take protein bars.

Cause for breakfast, we don't,
we never really have breakfast.

It's just coffee and, you know, cliff
bar or whatever, and kind of get going.

But, um, this protein powder was pretty,
it was pretty good in the overall size.

is it doesn't take up too much
size, not too much weight.

You're getting calories and it's
a lot of protein, longer lasting.

So I think I'll probably
try that again next year.

Maybe I won't bring as much as I did
last time, but we're pretty good.

Speaking of powders,

Joe Eppele: one thing I've done to kind of
extend the amount of calories I have in my

meals is, uh, well, for my dinners, I open
them up and I normally do one and a half

dinners per pouch and then I reseal it.

But the other thing I do is I'll
add in some scoops of MCT powder.

Sean Zubor: It's just

Joe Eppele: that quick fat into the
system and it's super lightweight.

So I'll do that.

Sometimes some scoops of bone
broth or something like that.

Throw that in there.

Does the MCT mess with your stomach

Sean Zubor: at all?

Joe Eppele: I've never personally,
I've never had issues with it.

Um, I don't do like, you know,

Sean Zubor: big amounts too

Joe Eppele: aggressive.

I just sneak a little bit extra in there.

Um, I do that.

And then in my oatmeal is all openable
and I'll put a bit of MCT powder

and some powdered peanut butter.

So I thought powdered peanut butter when I
first got it, I was like, Oh, it's great.

Cause it's going to be so high
in calories like peanut butter.

It's high in protein, but the thing
is the, a lot of the fat, I guess,

in peanut butter comes from the oils
that they use to keep it that way.

So when you dehydrate it.

You lose a lot of those oils.

So that's, that's originally what
I, why I happened on MCT powder is

because I used to bring individual
packs of peanut butter and I rip it

open and dump it in all my meals.

And then I was like, Oh,
I'm gonna use the powder.

It's going to be the same
as the peanut butter.

And it wasn't.

So I was like, well, how
do I get that fat back in?

Then I found the MCT powder.

And then I was like, well, I don't
just need to use this in my breakfast.

I'll use the powder in my
dinners and everything.

And it's.

It kind of works out well.

It works

Sean Zubor: for more things, because
peanut butter, you're not going to

throw in like a spaghetti or something
like that anyways, where you can

throw in MCT, no problem, right?

Exactly.

And yeah, just

Joe Eppele: sneaking some of
those calories in, it just

boosts you a little bit.

Sean Zubor: Okay, so, uh, quick
question, because we bumped into

at, uh, you were with me, I think,
at my, uh, booth, uh, Rod Galtica?

Giltaca?

Giltaca?

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah.

Um, with the CCFR, super nice
guy, huge into what they're doing.

What's your guys thoughts with, um To get
a little bit more political because that's

kind of the stuff we've been talking.

Uh oh.

Dun dun dun.

He's going to edit this part out.

Um, What's your guys thoughts
with what's happening?

Obviously there's rumors
of elections coming.

How do you guys think that's going to
affect obviously gun ownership and,

uh, more important, us as hunters?

What are your guys thoughts, and
this is kind of a two pronged

question, on grizzlies coming back?

I've heard it's a possibility, I
don't know what's happened, but

I've been told by some COs that
it might be in the works somehow.

Joe Eppele: I mean, from my experience
in the field lately, I would say the

conflict we're having with grizzly
bears has increased drastically.

I mean, it's increased drastically
over the past maybe 8 to 10 years.

But I would say it's been sped up at
such an extreme rate over the last

few years since the hunt's been shut
down where something has to change.

Um, and if they are smart in
office, they will go, okay, well,

these bears are becoming an issue.

How can we generate revenue
from this that can give back?

To the monitoring of these species
give back, because I mean, the hunts

previously brought a lot of money to
the table, not just for the bears,

but for other species as well.

Right.

So shutting that down was the
very, we got an announcement.

Should we pause for a second?

But shutting that down was a very,
very nearsighted, short sighted.

I mean, if they had to do anything,
maybe they should have shrunk the

numbers a bit, but, but something's
going to happen here pretty soon,

whether it's the government stepping
in and doing it silently and spending

taxpayers dollars to make it to reduce.

The numbers essentially, or opening
things back up in a way that can

generate that revenue and create
some positivity that comes from it.

And I mean, if you look at it in that way,
I mean, yes, we are biased, obviously,

but if you just look at that and you take
emotion out of it, it is hard to argue

against that type of approach, which is I
think what we all struggle with is, yes,

we're biased, so we want to bring it back.

But the other side is just so passionate.

Against it that they're it's like when
you're in an argument with somebody like

I don't care if I make sense or not I
just need to show that I'm right and

it's like okay But are you even listening
to the words coming out of your mouth?

Travis Bader: Well, it's hard
to fight emotion with logic

Joe Eppele: Yes,

Travis Bader: you can't do it I mean
you could be as logical as you want and

you're having that argument with the
person who's highly emotional You're

going to have to let them have their
emotional bit, but we don't have to

give that emotion the power behind it.

We don't have to start eliminating or
making policy changes or legislative

changes based on something that
is, that's purely emotional.

And I, I get it.

I, I remember years ago, um, Corporation
of Delta, before it became the City

of Delta, they had a, a meeting there.

They said, look, we're thinking about
doing what Surrey did and we're going to.

We're not going to get rid of the gun
stores and the firearms businesses,

but we're going to put a moratorium
existing ones can stay But anyone

new they can't come in and man.

I had all my logic.

I had all my stats I had all my
stuff and I'm up there at City

Hall going through my stuff and I
think was his name Barry Conkin.

I think was his name says hold on
Travis Like I see you have a bunch

of pages like how much more of this
you have I said, well, I don't know

I got I start going through it.

He says I'm gonna stop you right there.

I agree with you a hundred percent.

Everything you say makes sense.

O okay, so why are you contemplating
this change then, right?

He says it's got nothing to
do with what makes sense.

It's got nothing to do
with what I agree with.

It's got to do with what we think
the constituents want, and if we

have a vocal Constituency who says
this is what we want, then we're

going to have to entertain it.

They didn't end up enacting the
moratorium like they're going to,

but they at least went through the
motions of seriously considering it.

So I, I think when it comes to the bear
one, I as well have heard that they

will be bringing bear hunting back in.

I have had negative
grizzly bear encounters.

We have a generation of grizzly bears
now who have grown up to not be afraid

of humans, not have a respect for humans.

I tried to scare one off that was
getting way, way, way too close and

I fired around beside it thinking
that big boom, that concussive

force, that'll get it going off.

It didn't even flinch.

It didn't associate that with
danger or me with danger.

I

Joe Eppele: think sometimes I'm in my
experience, that boom now for them is

more associated with the dinner bell.

Travis Bader: That's right.

Joe Eppele: Because they hear
that and they go, okay, maybe

there's going to be a gut pile.

There's something for me to go find.

I'm going to go look closer into that.

So we've had issues.

Yeah, we were coming out from an elk hunt.

We.

And I'm quite confident that the gunshot
itself is what pulled that bear in on us.

Sean Zubor: Well, it's crazy.

I've been hunting since I was
10 years old and up until maybe

five years ago, and I'm 40 now.

Um, up until five years ago, I
never really even saw grizzly and

wild, like maybe one in the distance
and we were hunting up north with

my dad and so on and so forth.

Now, there isn't a trip where I don't
see one, even in places like Cache Creek

and Hunter Mile and so on and so forth
that aren't renowned for grizzly bears.

They're out there everywhere,
just like the wolves and we, now

obviously we have a call in a lot
of different places on the wolves.

There's still a ton of them, but
last year on my sheep hunt, or

this year, sorry, on my sheep hunt.

We saw three of them.

One went through our camp.

The other one was chasing us
down while we were leaving.

Like it was insane.

And when on our way out, uh, we took the,
Jason brought us up there on the jet boat.

And, uh, excuse me, on our way out,
I was actually with Chuck was on the

same boat with me from spike camp
and we're chatting and apparently,

and don't quote this number, but it's
something ridiculous like this, that.

In the last decade that they had the
open grizzly hunt, right, it's something

like 90 percent of all these grizzlies
that were shot weren't on a purpose hunt.

They weren't out there hunting grizzlies.

They were in an elk hunt, they were
in a sheep hunt, they were in a moose

hunt, and they all had tags, they
were all legally taken, but these were

problem bearers coming into camps.

They were taking the meat.

They were, you know, being
aggressive, putting humans at risk.

End.

It was a massive majority of all
bear shot were problem bears, right?

And now who's got to take care of it.

You talk to the guys, the CEOs that are
working up in Dawson and so on and so

forth, like 95 percent of their calls
are taking care of some kind of bear.

That's a nuisance bear that a hunter
could have taken care of when, you

know, they were protecting their,
their meat and whatever it is.

So it's not even the, you're now
allowing these problem bears, like you

said, they're, it's a generation of.

Problem bears, you know,
or, or issues with them.

So it's interesting to say.

So what about the gun stuff?

Travis Bader: The gun stuff.

Well, before we do the gun stuff, because
I know my ADH you'll kick in and I wanted

to ask the question, cause we talked
about gut piles, bears looking for a

gut pile, the Ravens flying overhead,
oftentimes indicator, all the birds

come around that you've got a gut pile.

I got a theory and I'm going
to throw it by you too.

I have a theory that the bears will
look at these Ravens and they'll say,

Oh, probably a gut pile down below.

And I've been playing
that theory a little bit.

These birds are really smart.

What if these birds are
like, I want a gut pile.

Because sometimes it feels like
they're indicating to me, when I'm out

there, of where an animal could be.

Because I've been starting to
pay attention to the ravens

and finding success in my hunt.

Have you guys done that?

There's, there's

Joe Eppele: I don't know if you
want to call it folklore or like

it's an old mountain man myth.

And I know it's something
that was present.

Um, some first nation,
that's part of it as well.

But there is a respect with
the birds of prey like Ravens.

And they do say that there's, there's
been a lot of stories and a lot of

tales of that being a part of it.

There's definitely an
understanding about certain people.

It's also like, I mean, I don't know
if it's on the same vein, but like

if you're going in the mountains
and you see an owl or something,

it's supposed to be great luck.

But, but yeah, I, I've heard a lot of.

Stories of individuals that go out
in the mountains, and they look for

the ravens and crows and go, okay.

I'm going to see where they take me today.

Travis Bader: Yeah, I don't know
if correlation is causation.

I don't have enough data to be
able to make that, but I've,

I've been playing with it a bit.

I figured I'll throw it out to see
and maybe the listeners have done

this and they have some feedback.

Sean Zubor: I could, I
could definitely see that.

I mean, it's miraculous how quick they
end up on the gut pile, like you're,

you're still skinning an animal or
you're, you're, you're gutting it and

they're there three minutes later.

So yeah, I could see that.

Travis Bader: So

Sean Zubor: you

Travis Bader: want to talk
about the gun thing now?

Hey.

Sean Zubor: Yeah, the only reason is so
I'll, I'll give some background on it.

So I'm an avid gun guy as well.

I even had a firearm channel, the
modern caveman on YouTube a long time

ago when I still had guns to review.

So good old

Joe Eppele: days, good old

Sean Zubor: days.

And so.

There's one disconnect that, and
that's the only thing, and I think

people are starting to, um, because,
you know, the only, and I'll just

throw this out there, the extreme of
Trudeau on how crazy everything has

gone with that, I think it's almost
brought a lot of, like, the gun culture

and hunting culture closer together.

Right.

So, excuse me.

If I look back in the past, I even
remember as a kid, like being looked

down on that we were hunting with a
gun because the guy was a bow hunter.

So he's more of a superior hunter.

You know, there's always been these
types of like riffs in our community.

And I think now it's starting to get a lot
better because of the extremes of Trudeau.

But the one thing, um, and Ron and
I were talking about it as well is,

you know, I own multiple restricted
firearms that are going to be taken away.

I think I got like nine, Nine or
ten guns that are now prohibited

in my, in my gun safe, right?

And, um, for me I'd really like to see,
and I love the fact that the Wild Sheep

Society is doing this, having him,
he's speaking tonight, I think he was

saying, right, and having him a part
of them and so on and so forth, just

combining it a little bit more with
sport shooters, um, guys that were doing

three gun, cause I think it's important
that we all are very solidified beside

the fact, because I think there's still
some and genuinely I feel even the last

year or two, it's been a big change,
but I think there's still some hunters

out there that don't believe that their
guns are literally on the chopping

blocks right now that believe that, oh,
they'll never get rid of bolt actions.

They'll never get rid of this.

They'll never get rid of that.

Um, I don't know.

What are your guys thoughts on that?

Joe Eppele: I mean, it's a fight
of a death by 1000 cuts, right?

And it's the same thing that's
been happening with our Um, you

know, a lot of people in the
grizzly bear hunt was banned.

A lot of hunters just want,
well, I don't hunt grizz.

So I don't care.

Right.

But that was like the grizzly
bear was the big barrier in

front of all the other species.

So as soon as the grizzly bear
went, then there was the fight

we had for the cats and the fight
we're having for other predators.

And so it's.

It's not like these groups or
the, the opposition is going

to go, okay, we won the battle.

That was the only battle we want.

We walk away, right?

For them, they have a long plan
and they're a unified group.

So talking about, you know, how fragmented
we are and everybody's in their own pocket

and they're like, Oh, that's their fight.

It doesn't touch me.

I completely agree as a society.

We all need to understand
like this isn't going to stop.

After one of these things, top on
some of the groups, open state.

Well, this is the only thing we're coming.

We're only coming for the cat hunts.

If the cat hunts stop,
we're going to go away.

Well, yes, that official organization
might go away, but you don't think 90

percent of those members are going to come
back under a different umbrella, under a

different name, with a different group.

Like that's, that's, what's
going to continually happen.

And that's what we see.

That's what we saw after
the grizzly bear hunt.

What really happens is
every time they get a win.

It's like a sports team.

You gain that momentum and you
become that much fiercer of a group.

And then everybody rallies behind
it because it's like, Oh wait, they

actually were able to get a victory.

Well, now I'm going to,
now I really believe in it.

We're going to have this change.

We're going to do this.

And the challenge that we really face is
on our side, we're really held under a

microscope and we have to speak truths.

We can't step out of line
and falsify information.

The other side, 90 percent of
what they put on these banners,

billboards, some of these people
that they're teaching in school.

It's completely false right now.

So, um, I kind of went on a bit of a
tangent there, but I would say, you know,

all of these different groups and all
these different pockets in the shooting

sports, everybody needs to come together.

Because, like Rod said earlier this
morning at the, at the life member

breakfast, um, you know, a lot of the
guns that have been put on the chopping

block already are guns that he never
in a million years would have thought

would have come and they're gone and
they're in the rear view mirror now.

And it's not like they're going
to stop and go, okay, we got this.

We're happy.

I mean, you can just look at the list
they're putting forward and they're

literally just throwing spaghetti
at the wall and seeing what sticks

like there's no logic behind it.

And that shows you alone that
they don't have an end in sight.

They're just going, let's
grab as many as we can now.

And then we'll let them calm down
a little bit and then they'll

go, okay, everything's fine.

And then we'll come back and we'll grab
a few more and we'll grab a few more.

And it's the same thing they're going
to do with the hunting licenses.

They're going to go, okay, no, wait, no.

They stood up and fought for the cats.

Okay.

We won't, we won't go after cats.

What else can we go after?

What else can we sneak away while
everybody's looking over here?

What else can we pull out the back door
and that's what they're gonna keep doing

They're circling and they're just gonna
pull away pull away and pretty soon We're

gonna be sitting there and you're on
the last hill and people are gonna go.

How did we get here?

And it's because everybody
didn't come together.

Everybody didn't get each
other's backs, right?

Like that's that's what needs to happen
So to your point like I agree we need to

get everybody together and one unified
front messaging needs to be consistent

across the board Um, that's essential
if we're gonna, the way things are

going, I mean, yes, maybe obviously
some changes in office could impact

that, but I mean, yes, it could make
things a lot better, but is that going

to stop some of these organizations?

They're always going to
find a way to come after us.

So we do, as a community, need
to come together, bring more into

the fold, increase our numbers.

Larger numbers, stronger voice,
and then everybody's forced to

listen to the larger numbers.

Because everybody just listens to the
loudest voice in the room, unfortunately.

Travis Bader: I agree with that, and I
agree that people should realize the death

by a thousand cuts, like you say there.

Because if you look at like, go back
a few years, Paul Martin, he's like,

I'm not going to touch your guns.

I'm not going to do
anything with your guns.

A second he gets in, all right,
let's ban all the handguns.

And he got so much pushback on
that and it fell flat on its face.

Trudeau comes in and says, death by
a thousand cuts, camel in the tent.

Please sir, it's so cold outside.

Can I just put my hoof inside your tent?

And before you know it, you're sleeping
outside and your camel's on the inside.

And that's how this goes.

I'm not a hundred percent sure.

That trying to organize the, uh, the
hunting community and the firearms

community is the best option.

Like if the entire firearms community, the
entire hunting community got up and they

started saying, here's what's going on.

And they're fighting with logic.

Uh, again, we find ourself in
that situation where you're trying

to fight emotion with logic.

I think.

You've already, arguments already
been framed in a way where

you're fighting a losing battle.

I think the argument needs to be framed,
reframed a little bit differently, such

as, if they can come for this from you,
why couldn't they come for that for you?

And I see Canadian Federation of
Independent Businesses doing that, the

CFIB, and they're looking at property
rights as opposed to, oh, if they take

your handguns or your shotguns or your
rifles, they're saying, Well, if they

can arbitrarily come in and say, you
can't have this through ordering counsel

through no legislative, uh, voting, no,
no due process, what's to stop them from

doing something similar when it comes to
your bank account, when it comes to your

business, when it comes to your house.

And I think the voice, the
numbers that you need to come

from more of that visceral emotion
where all the people are like.

In the gun community, I don't own
handguns, it doesn't bother me,

or the non hunters and the non
firers people, that's you, that's

you guys, how does that affect me?

Well, the amount of money it costs on
these, and I'm going to do air quotes

here for people listening, the buyback,
which is, it's just confiscation.

Yeah,

Sean Zubor: exactly.

Travis Bader: Like Blaine said
last night, how do you buy back

something that you've never owned?

Yeah.

I think that it needs to be a strategic
reframing of what's going on and

putting a spotlight on the, the general
malfeasance of government and how

they're moving forward to, to take,
uh, rights to take property or to,

to take the steps that they're doing.

I, I think that would be

Sean Zubor: I think that would work.

I think it's going to be
a two pronged approach.

I think both sides, the reality is, is
if we have inner fighting or we're not

working together as a hunting shooting
community, you know, we're all on

the same side and where we're going.

I think that hurts us one particular
way because you know how it is.

If you look at any type of,
uh, Look at how wars are run.

First thing you're trying to
do is separate, you know, the

good from the bad within people.

You're trying to, um, everybody hates to
use COVID, but you said as an example,

uh, during COVID, it doesn't matter if you
believe in it, don't believe in it, think

it kills people, don't think it kills
people, the vaccine, whatever it is, how

the government villainized people, in my
personal opinion, was completely wrong.

Right.

And that's, you see families that
have completely stopped talking to

each other that have like disowned
each other that because one's like

an anti vaxxer, one's a vaxxer.

I won't even use anti vaxxer, just
didn't believe in that particular

one or whatever the case is.

So it's a very, very powerful
tool to split communities.

With certain beliefs, right?

So I feel like if our community comes
together and we realize that we're

all fighting the same fight, A. B, if
we realize the fact that, and Joe hit

it on the nail, you look at all these
conservation, or sorry, not, they're not

conservation groups, all these groups
that are trying to say get rid of the bear

hunt or get rid of, at the end of the day,
you look at their, their motivation at

the end, It is to eliminate all hunting.

You look at any of these people that
are trying to get rid of any kind

of guns, uh, or, you know, the ARs
to start with or whatever it may be.

Their motivation in the very end
is to eliminate all firearms.

It is not.

This is all just a starting point.

We all really have to realize that
if we don't fight back now, and

that is really what you're doing.

If we don't come together as a force,
I think we're going to be, uh, we're

going to have, we won't have anything
left to fight for because everything.

And, and Joe, you said this as well as
like, I mean, it's death by a thousand

cuts, really what it is is just creating
normalization, like I've already heard

people, well, you know, I've given up.

I'm not going to get my
arrow back or I've given up.

I'm like, it's gone.

Well.

The reality is if you give that up,
right, and you have that mentality

that it's given up, you will never
get it back because now you're just

focused on fighting what you're
going to still be able to keep now

instead of moving back into the
retrospective where we were, right?

So, I, I, I think it's, it's,
uh, it's a challenging time.

Luckily, I think we're in the
right direction in a lot of cases.

Excuse me, but I think a third prong
attempt too, and I think this is like,

you guys are doing an incredibly great
job about this and, you know, the Joe

Rogans of the world and so on and so
forth, is, I think, bringing other people

into the scope of the outdoors, right?

Getting them to understand.

People that camp, people that, um, I think
a massive, massive thing that we really

need to focus on is bringing more women
into, into our activities or sports or

shooting or, or hunting or, you know,
getting them involved, understanding

how much of a family practice this is,
you know, like getting kids involved.

Bringing people that are outside of
our community to go fire a gun and

realize that, Hey, the gun didn't jump
off the table and start killing people.

You know what I mean?

And we just had some psychos once in
a blue moon that did things right.

So I think there's a lot of opportunity to
kind of bring that awareness and having.

Um, you know, for lack of a better word,
these celebrities or having people that

are out there voicing their opinions loud
and clear and speaking well and showing by

action, leading by example, I think these
are ways that we can definitely change the

tide and you're seeing it in the states.

You're seeing it here in a lot of cases
in Alberta and so on and so forth.

I think we need to keep pressing.

My worry is, is we do bring
another government in.

That will be a good government.

And all of a sudden we lay
off, lay off the gas and we're

like, Oh, we're good now.

And then we set ourselves up for sure.

It's for another Trudeau
and whenever years,

Joe Eppele: yeah, I don't think
the fights are going to go anywhere

regardless of what happens.

And, and, um, you know, we have to keep
our guard up, but I definitely, yeah,

I think you guys both made phenomenal
points there, Travis, to your point, um,

you know, reef using the exact reframe
it and applying it to something else.

And then using that as a really
good tool of how we could pull

more into the fold and educate.

When it comes to situations, like the
ones we're talking about, it's a very

polarizing argument, but the big thing
is the majority of society, like, yes,

maybe 10, 15, 20 percent sit at either
end and they're going, okay, what do

we do with this 8, 60 to 80 percent of
the population that's in the middle?

How do we reach them?

And for us, sometimes we just
speak our side and hope that

people will understand it.

But a lot of those people in the middle
who don't hunt, who don't have guns,

who don't see it, they're like, well,
I live in, you know, um, City center.

I don't see these things.

Why would you need to hunt?

Why would you need to?

Because like we talked about earlier,
vast majority of people have never gone

north past to these really wild places.

They don't see grizzly
bears on a daily basis.

They don't see wolves.

They don't see what's actually
happening on the, on the landscape.

Finding a way to reach them and showing
them that we're not these villains like

Certain groups are really trying to make
us out to be so saying well, this is why

we're actually frustrated So, you know
educating somebody with a piece and you

know, could you imagine you're watching
a video and it talks about you know What

would you do if one day you woke up and
someone told you something about a vehicle

or your property or your right for?

Some sort of other freedom or uh, you
know, and then this was all done With

no education, there's no logic behind
the decisions and you, you structured

it that way, people's hair on their
back would stand up and they go, how

could something like that happen?

And you go, well, that is what's
been happening here and then, and

then bring them in all of a sudden
people might start paying attention.

So, and then bring them in and
then bring them as a part of this

unified society of everybody else.

And then that voice grows.

So I think both pieces of that can come
together and yeah, cause right now it's

one of those challenging things is.

I feel like the hunting society, the
shooting society, has always rested on

historically of, you know, the actions
speak louder than words, but like the

silent type, this is the way it's been,
this is the way it should always be.

Because we talk about the
heritage, we talk about this is

what's always been happening.

But that, I don't think that dialogue,
that story is serving us as well

as it used to, and it's changing.

So I think finding ways to change our
story, to change how we bring other

people into the fold is very important.

Travis Bader: I think you're bang on.

I don't think, um, I don't think setting
yourself up to fight somebody's emotional

act, uh, Accusations is putting yourself
in the, in the best possible position.

And there are other things that are
going on in society right now that

people can piggyback on if they're
trying to have another side understand

sort of their position, they can
piggyback on the local food movement.

Right.

And, uh, they understand food.

They might not understand hunting,
but they understand food and

where that food comes from.

Maybe there's a segue in.

How about the indigenous people
out there as hunting and fishing

as a part of a way of life?

You're going to tell them that they
shouldn't be able to hunt anymore.

And if you wouldn't say that, why
would you say that to another group?

Like, are you racist?

Right?

It's, I mean, the same sort of logic
could be used back and forth, but

I think really, and you're right.

There's always going to be the
few percent that are one side,

few percent the other side.

And most of the people in the
middle, they just don't care.

They're, they're not even, it's not even
on their radar, but even if you take

those ardent opposition on either side,
you'll probably find that you have more

similarities than you do have differences.

That you don't like guns because you've
been negatively affected by it, or you've

read about things in the news where
people have been negatively affected,

so you want to get rid of them all.

Well, guess what?

The gun people over here, they don't like
this stuff they're seeing in the news and

they don't want to be negatively affected.

But if we get rid of it all,
does that mean that we're

going to stop all gun violence?

Well, no.

What's the end objective?

We want to have a safe society.

If we get rid of all hunting,
what's that going to mean?

Well, we're no longer going to have
conservation groups that actually

look after and manage these animals.

And we have things for
generations to come.

Do you want animals for
generations to come?

Yes.

Well, maybe we should reframe
how we're looking at that.

And I think if we start looking
at those similarities that we have

and picking away at those, we might
have a different conversation.

Because the second we're on
these polar sides, I don't think

either side really gets anywhere.

Sean Zubor: Let me ask you guys
a question then on this portion.

Um, because I agree with
everything you guys are saying.

You would.

Definitely.

We're on the same side.

Um.

My question to you, I guess, is,
as you mentioned, you know, like

the 10 percent on each side, these
extremists on both sides, right?

I think over the last, and I think
this is one of the reasons why we're

actually starting to see a shift
politically and all these other things

is because the 10%, I'll just call it
out as the left, let's just say the

extreme left, has been so loud and has
been basically shaming everybody else.

You know, outside the rest of the
90 percent that they've been shaming

their way into getting things done.

How do how do we?

All of these things we talk about,
bringing people into the community, uh,

showing them, for example, like, hey,
you may have nothing to do with guns,

but, uh, that car, you know, why do you
have to have a thousand horsepower car?

You know, you could kill a bunch
of people and you're taking way too

much fuel and so on and so forth.

Like, we're gonna confiscate
that because nobody needs that.

Just like nobody needs a semi
automatic weapon, for example.

And we're using these types of things.

How do we get our voice out
there, like the 1 percent of the

extreme left have over the years?

Travis Bader: I don't think you do.

Sean Zubor: No?

Travis Bader: No.

I, I think, obviously we need groups.

We need people who will have
that voice and who carry it out.

My personal opinion is that you start
educating people on, uh, how many

media can manipulate, how people
can manipulate facts or outright

lie and things that we can look for.

Sean Zubor: Sorry, sorry,
sorry to interrupt you.

So, but how do you educate them?

How do you get that out there?

What do you think?

And to a better question, because you
know, there's three of us that are

on social media quite a bit and we do
our things, but I'm not really a hunt,

like the hunting community per se.

I love you guys.

I love Watchmen.

I'm more of a fan boy than anything.

So, but you guys, this is your living.

Like you guys literally work
and breathe in, in the hunting

industry, outdoor industry.

Um, how does, how does the regular
average person that's here?

Right?

Or maybe that's not who we're saying,
but the person that's in there, how

do they get out and communicate and
say these things and educate and

like, what, if somebody is listening
to this today, what should they do?

Or, I'm not, we're obviously
not telling them what to do, but

at the end of the day, what can
they do to make a difference?

Travis Bader: I, I think educating
ourselves personally about how arguments

are formed on how media can be manipulated
and being able to call out blatant lies

when we see it and point to Why that is.

I mean, Noam Chomsky has written
a number of books on just the

power of media manipulation.

I think he's actually got a
masterclass right now through

that, that whole masterclass thing.

But I think if people are able to start
spotting out, well, hold on a second,

that argument doesn't hold water.

Like if you have a point, let's
make your point, as opposed

to trying to argue the point.

Because the second you find yourself
arguing the point, and you're already

in a position, let's say it's an
emotional point, you're, you're

Fighting against the flow of water.

So if you can at least Uh,
through your own discourse, start

understanding how, uh, a different
perspective of the argument.

Like, hold on a second, let's talk.

What is it you're trying
to actually get at?

Or why would you say that
when, rather than pointing to

facts, use their same argument?

In the same way that, like, when COVID
happened, like you point out there,

people would talk in hushed tones.

They wouldn't want it,
like It was really weird.

I would have podcasts
if people be off air.

Like I wanted to say this, but I
couldn't because I'd be canceled.

And you talk about, and you say the
left, the extreme left, but there has

been a very effective manipulation
through media and through social media

through cancel culture in the past.

And I think the zeitgeist now is.

There is a flavor for, uh, that to stop.

People are not going to be bullied through
DEI and saying, Well, you don't agree with

this diversity, equity, inclusion thing.

So you must be a racist.

You must be a Nazi, right?

I think that's where the, um, I
don't think we lose messaging on

what we think is factually correct.

But I think we have to be more
adept at being able to Uh, reframe

an argument or point out in a way
that will humiliate in the same way

that you would be humiliated, right?

Just point out the ludicrous of it.

Joe Eppele: I'm trying to
think of anything I would add

on top of what you just said.

I think you, you really touched
on everything well there.

Um, yeah, and I think the other thing is
just, I mean, especially on social media,

everybody's first reaction is to attack
and emotionally attack and, and, you know,

take a breath and understand sometimes.

Like people are on there they're
baiting you and they want you to step

in and sometimes the first reaction the
first thing you want to type in there

and say is Almost gonna prove their
point and then you know Unvalidate

anything you're gonna say after that.

So so taking that step and going
I always Use a term, you know

used to play professional sports.

Travis Bader: Did you

Joe Eppele: really once upon a time?

Yeah, I was really good at badminton

And I always say there's a
difference between locker room

talk and the press conference talk.

And understand that these social
platforms, a lot of people go, well it's

a social platform, I want to be able
to say whatever I'm supposed to say.

Well no, it's a social platform, yes.

Everything that we're putting
on these social platforms is

going to be used against us.

Like it's, like when someone's
getting arrested, you know, anything

you say can and will be used
against you in the court of law.

It's the same thing.

You can have your, your conversations
about certain things and speak in a

certain tone amongst the boys, amongst
your hunt group, whatever it is, but

when you're going on social media,
understand, a lot of the time I try and,

and I, don't get me wrong, I don't get
it perfect all the time, I make a lot of

mistakes, understand that you're You're
not always when I speak or respond to

somebody, I'm not even thinking, how
is this person going to react to it?

I go, everybody that reads this,
whose side are they going to take?

And if you get involved too emotionally
and too aggressive and you're just, you

know, start name calling things like that.

Everybody's going to go, wow, this
guy is this redneck idiot, right?

Like that's what they're going to think.

Wow.

This person really, you know, caught him.

Whereas.

You know, every now and then you see
the response, some responses, you

know, you're just not going to win.

And I'll be honest, I block a
lot of people like you're gone.

Like I don't have time for you
because this isn't nothing positive

is going to come from this.

But if someone's open to dialogue, I'll
communicate with them, even if I know

I'm not going to convince them, but I,
okay, well, maybe some other people that

they know are going to check this out.

And then they're going to go, wow,
this guy actually made a good point.

Travis Bader: So you comport yourself,

Joe Eppele: right?

So, so, so that sometimes is a way to win.

Um, but yeah, you're not going
to win all those arguments.

You're not going to, you're
not going to win them.

I, and oddly enough, sometimes
I have had one of the most

frustrating things I have come up.

Actually is at the end of some
of these dialogues, people go.

Okay, but I'm not talking about you.

You're one of the good ones.

And we'll bring, we'll bring this full
circle moment here is like we've all

been here at this venue all weekend and
you walk around every person in this

building is one of the good ones because
the best people you will ever meet,

you meet through the outdoors, right?

Because it just brings, it brings
the best out in so many people.

Sean Zubor: So.

Joe Eppele: Um, I just, I hate
that when people go, yeah,

but I'm not talking about you.

I'm talking about the rest of them.

I'm like, but the rest of them are just
like me, you know, maybe some people

don't approach it with the same angle,
but like when you dig down, you sit

down and talk with anybody here this
weekend, everybody's the same inside.

Right.

So, so it's, yeah, I hate that.

Yeah.

But if everybody can kind of do
that and everybody can show them

that we're all one of the good ones.

We'll start winning some of that argument.

Sean Zubor: I like that.

I love it.

Okay, last question, because we're
already stretching time here.

Hold

Travis Bader: on, I got one point
I okay, sorry, sorry, sorry.

The answer to the question.

Okay, alright, perfect.

I, I like, uh, what, what Joe's
saying about writing it down, if

someone would read it at a later date.

I always try and write things down
in a way, if a trier of fact in

the future had to look at this and
weigh it out simply on what they see

here, what would their opinion be?

And I find oftentimes when I'm engaging
in something, whether it's social

media or wherever there's an initial
emotional response, they're wrong.

I'm right.

I know I'm right.

I know they're wrong.

However.

There's a lot of power to asking
questions because there has been once

or twice, maybe, where I was mistaken
and I misunderstood what was going on.

And a lot of powerful, um, statements
can be made through asking a question

and it leaves you with some leeway
to be able to retreat and understand.

And I think that's what people should
be seeking to do is to understand

each other prior to seeking to.

Prove your point, because if I can
understand you and hopefully we

can then reach a point where you
can understand me, we'll probably

find pretty similar where we're at.

Sean Zubor: Some kind of common ground.

It's funny that you say that in sales.

Yeah, that's um, because I can be
a complete hothead and I've said a

lot of stupid stuff on social media
way too much, um, just be real.

And, uh, yeah, I have a lot of followers.

I've lost a lot of followers.

I've lost clients, everything.

And it's because, like And I think this
is something that I've learned over

time is I get very emotional over this
as well, because I, I feel deep down.

It's right.

I feel like somebody stealing something
from me, you know, so there's a

lot of things, especially somebody
stealing something from me that

would be crying that I'm stealing
something from them of that wouldn't

even be significance type deal.

Right?

So, um, but I hear everything you
guys are saying, and I've been, I'm

like, well, Hey, why don't I just
apply what I do in sales, which is.

Travis Bader: That's a good point.

Sean Zubor: Basically just questions,
you know, I'm, I'm always trying to

find somebody's motivation on, you
know, what, why they're building

this tower, what's the dream, where
they're going, etc. And it's the

same thing when you can ask somebody
that has a differentiating opinion to

you on what makes you feel that way.

What made you, what brought
you to this decision?

You start asking these questions.

A lot of times they can't
even answer themselves.

Right?

So it brings it to the forefront
that it is more or less just a

bias, not an actual reason why.

And then you can start
having a conversation, right?

So it's funny that you mentioned
this over the last couple of years.

I've learned to bite my tongue a bit
and Joey hit around the fort and it's

like, okay, no, not supposed to say that.

Uh, definitely get a ban for that one.

And then, uh, yeah, just think it
through and then just start with

the question process is huge.

Okay.

On a lighter tone.

Last question.

What's your favorite animal to hunt?

Are

Joe Eppele: we starting a new podcast?

That is a big one.

Um, you know what, the one I
always go back to personally,

um, blacktail, blacktail deer.

And for me, it's just that nostalgic hunt.

Um, it's what I grew up doing.

I grew up hunting
blacktail with my father.

That's what originally, I mean,
grouse and blacktail is what I'd

fell in love with as a child.

So there's that nostalgic side to it.

And it's that one hunt that.

It still makes me feel like that kid
again, where I make the dumbest decisions.

And afterwards I look back and I
go, why the heck did I do that?

Because it still gets me so fluttered.

Whereas some of the other
hunts, don't get me wrong.

I make, I make mistakes on every hunt
that happens, but with Blacktail, it

just, it always brings me right back
into that childhood memory and just.

Because let's be honest, blacktail
hunting, if you're doing it right, a

lot of the time, it's the nastiest,
rainiest, most miserable day.

And half the time I'm out there, I'm
like, why do I love this so much?

I, I hate that I love it so
much, but that's what it is.

It's that nostalgic hunt for me.

That's, that's what brings it back.

That, and talking about that,
uh, type two verging on the

side of type three kind of hunt.

The whole part leading up to, I
mean, cause I injured that deer.

And then it was over a 24 hour
recovery process and tracking it down.

And finishing the job

Sean Zubor: rating or something too.

Right.

If I remember right, it looked wet.

It

Joe Eppele: was snowing at the point
of the first shot wounded the animal.

I thought it was a miss
wounded the animal found blood.

The rain turned to snow.

I had two hours before dark
tracked it as far as I could.

That night didn't recover it in
my mind, thought it wasn't a fatal

injury, but there's, there's a
whole bunch to that again, talk

about the nostalgic part of it.

It was my father's birthday and that
the hunt hadn't been going well or

would have been my father's birthday.

And, uh, yeah, I saw that buck and when
I found out when it was a miss, I went,

you know what, dad, I let you down.

But then when I found out I injured it, it
was just like this weight really letting

him down just made it that much heavier.

So then 24 hours later or whatever
it was having it all come together.

Um, and that's a hunt that's
going to be tough to top for me.

And, uh, yeah, that, that
was a beautiful buck though.

And then the way it finished with the
tumble into the, over the 80, a hundred

foot cliff into the river bottom.

And

Sean Zubor: that's what I was
going to creak in a river.

Yeah, it was a mess.

Joe Eppele: There's a lot to that one,
but again, that would have to be the

start of a new podcast if I done that

Sean Zubor: one.

Travis Bader: All right, boss.

Moose, uh, moose, spring bear.

I love spring bear, but something
about moose is giant animals that

are just ghosts in the forest and
being able to call them in working

in their, uh, their habitat.

It's, um, it's always been
a special hunt for me.

And then, I don't know, spring bear.

There's something about the spring bear,
being out in the warmer weather and, uh,

family, um, I, I enjoy those as well.

You?

Sean Zubor: So I would say,
I would say I don't know.

There's a couple of times.

I don't know.

This is my question.

I'm not even answering it well, but, um,
I, I love sheep hunting cause it's an

adventure and you know, I did last year, I
did a couple of ultra marathons, a hundred

kilometer one and all this other stuff
and I just like pushing myself and you

just feel this accomplishment afterwards.

And it's just, I feel like I'm in
different places I've never seen before.

So I would say for the overall
challenge, it would be, it would

be a sheep hunter, a goat hunt.

Um, But it's not something I
could do more than once a year.

You know what I mean?

Like some of these guys, these
young guys I'm talking to, I'm

going three sheep hunts next year.

But, uh, but really, I think last year,
my favorite hunt to date, uh, and I have

some really great ones with my dad too,
but I think it's bringing Hunter, my, my

oldest out, and him shooting his first
couple grouse with a Pelican and a 410.

It's crazy.

Like when I, um, I used to compete,
uh, as you guys know, in MMA and

Jiu Jitsu and so on and so forth.

And there were, it was always awesome.

You know, fighting in front of thousands
of people is really cool, but nothing

replaces like watching some of my
students that were 15 years old when

the Pan Ams and stuff like you just
get this, uh, I don't know, you're, you

feel like you're doing the right thing.

You know, when you're out there hunting,
it's sometimes like, especially on a

sheep hunt where you're gone for a couple
of weeks, it can be a. A selfish moment,

you know, you like, you feel like that
kind of like what you're talking about,

Joe, like you're leaving your family,
you're leaving all these other things.

I mean, even though it's a must and it's
something that's really good for you.

And I think you bring it back
to your family, tenfold and your

friends and so on and so forth.

But yeah, I think like watching it
pass down in the generation, I think

it's, it's yeah, huge for me for sure.

No, there's something

Joe Eppele: special in that passing
of the torch and passing that

tradition on and everything like that.

I mean, we go back to our hunting
heritage conversation, but yeah, I

mean, you're at a much different stage.

My boys are going to be a few years
before they can run around, especially

on their own walkers three, why it's
a month old, um, but Walker already

has a huge passion for the outdoors.

He loves getting out there and
I'm going to continually push him.

And, and, and I think it's
something special too.

It's every.

You know, father, parents dream is that
their Children will want to go into it.

And for me, it's not so much that I want
him to be a driven, motivated hunter.

I just want him to learn all the lessons
and the values that I lost that I

learned through my experiences out there.

It teaches you so much about perseverance,
about trials and tribulations,

about doing everything right.

And stuff's still not working out.

Um, and just.

You know, it, it teaches you all
of those lessons, those values

being prepared, responsibility.

Um, so, so that's what I really want
to be able to hand on down to them.

So, I mean, when you were talking
about that, like it literally gives me

goosebumps thinking about when I'm at
the age where I get to see those boys

doing the, oh man, it's, that's a dream.

It's

Sean Zubor: amazing.

And I have my youngest, Jack.

He's, uh, he's turning seven.

He's there too.

And he's just, yeah, it is, it
is pretty, uh, watching them play

with the fire and all these, yeah,
it brings back memories as a kid.

It's, it's been huge for sure.

Okay.

Well, before we wrap it up, even though
I think this is gonna be your podcast,

before we wrap it up, cause
we are in this amazing place.

And a lot of people have been saying this.

Joe, quick question.

How do they become a member?

Um, what are like a couple
of the different levels?

What, what should they be doing?

I mean, might as well, we're here.

Let's, let's promote.

First

Joe Eppele: and foremost, I mean,
yeah, if you're here, obviously

there'll be members walking around.

People can get signed up.

If you're not here physically
and those at home watching,

just go and watch Huge Society.

Uh, vc.

com, I believe is the website we can
maybe throw it on the, and there'll be

drop downs and you can talk about all
the various different, uh, memberships.

Obviously there's, there's
individual memberships, there's

annual memberships, and then
there's, um, lifetime memberships.

And then you can get into the
tiers of the lifetime memberships.

Um, after your original lifetime
membership, there's actually

opportunities to get charitable tax
receipts as well, which is a big driver.

Um, and then a new one we launched
last year is the, the half

curl membership, which is for.

It's it's a lifetime membership for our
members under 18 and it's a that's a 500

membership But then you're a lifetime
member up until your 18th birthday Don

Stevens were sitting across from his booth
right now All of our half curl members

were presented with a beautiful plaque
and a custom made knife from Don Stevens

So they all get that it's and again, it's
talking about, you know passing the torch.

We're hoping that You know, creating
these special events, there's gonna

be special hunts drawn just for our
youth being able to, you know, prizes,

raffles, everything that, and then
throughout the year, we're gonna have

different events for our youth as well.

Um, but create that healthy funnel
where we bring people up in this

culture and show that it really is.

Uh, family environment.

It's a community.

There's so much more to it.

So, so that's a big thing.

But yeah, everything is available online.

Go on the website, check it out.

Um, and, and it's not one of those things
where you have to have a ton of money

to have an impact, you know, um, you can
sign up for just a one year membership.

And I was, I did, I think, I think
two or three just one year memberships

before I decided to be a life member.

And now I'm a monarch.

So I took a few steps after that.

And now both my boys.

Our half curl members.

And it's just one of those things
where it's a group that I started on

the outside and I saw the dollars that
I put in directly trans transition to

translate into boots on the ground.

And then as I started going to the
AGMs and started to go to these

things, you really do see, like,
it's not like some of those other

organizations where 20 cents on the
dollar actually makes it to the cause.

So, so I started feeling
better and better about it.

And it's like, okay, well
I'm putting money there.

I want to put my time there.

And it's, it's just one of those
communities where once you.

Get your toe in the door.

You don't want to leave and you want
to do more, become more involved.

You want to be a part of
it more and more and more.

And, uh, that's, so just get started.

Get online.

Sign up for just a year membership.

Come down, check it out,
see what it's all about.

And it's just one of those places that
you look forward to being every year.

Travis Bader: To your point about
toe in the door there, every year I

do the 60 bucks or whatever it is.

So today my wife and I got
the, uh, lifetime membership.

You put that challenge out yesterday.

Of course, kind of cheated
a little bit with, uh, with

Wyatt there, but that's good.

That's good.

It was a good challenge for everyone.

And that, uh, the half curl,
when they turn 18, they get a

lifetime membership at half price.

Joe Eppele: So the 500 fee of the
half curl membership is basically

your deposit on your life member.

So then once you get to 18, there'll
be a coming of age ceremony.

You'll be notified.

This can be a year,
there'll be a presentation.

They go to go up on stage and they
just pay the remaining balance.

And then they're a member for life.

And you had access to all those
resources, all of those opportunities.

I mean, we're giving away a
guided whitetail hunt, and there's

only, I think, less than 20
members right now that qualify.

Both of my sons don't qualify for
that hunt because they're under 10.

It's only the 10 to 18 year olds.

And those hunt opportunities are only
going to get better year after year.

So if you're going to sign up every,
you're going to qualify for that every

year from now until your 18th birthday.

And it's, yeah, there's some great things.

And I do want to say
that was my challenge.

I issued Wyatt was yes.

My I've checked that box.

My challenge to myself to bring one
member into the fold is on top of that.

So that did not include Wyatt,

but,

Travis Bader: um, second, you
said it, I leaned over beside

me, I said, He's got an easy one.

All he's got to do is get Wyatt up there.

He's got it set, and then he mentioned.

Joe Eppele: Yeah, and the other thing
worth mentioning as well in talking

about finance is obviously it's not
always easy to do the full commitment.

Yes, year after year,
there's the annual ones.

If you want to get into a
lifetime, there's payment plans.

So you can set it up on monthly
plans or whatever it is.

It doesn't have to be chipped away.

And then once you're a life
member, you can chip away to

your different stages of Monarch.

Year after year, there's
different ways to contribute.

It doesn't have to be a one time purchase.

It doesn't have to be that huge hit.

You can, you can stagger it out
throughout the year for sure.

Sean Zubor: And I'll throw
this out there too, because I'm

sure this is going to come up.

What if I don't hunt sheep?

Um, what if I don't hunt goats?

What if I'm not a mountain
hunter, et cetera?

Um, I'm going to throw it.

This is just.

personal anecdotal stuff.

So I was a lifetime member before I ever
went on my first sheep hunt or right

around the same time, give or take.

And I can tell you one thing, and I'm
obviously, it's an amazing thing and

the support system for, um, for our
wildlife in and of itself, but Hey,

it's difficult to find people that
want to actually do sheep hunting.

It's difficult to find people
that want to show you the way or

learn from or so on and so forth.

And I can tell you here.

You hang out here, you become part
of the society you're going to meet.

I'm not saying they're going to give
you all their honey holes, but, um,

you're going to meet people that are,
you know, you can become friends with,

go on sheep hunts, build that community.

You can actually learn how to hunt.

I mean, how many, uh, hunting
university things did we have in

the last couple of days, like 30
or 40 of them still go exactly.

Right.

So.

If you're looking like the price of
admission to learn how to hunt these

amazing, uh, uh, animals and to overall
be a part of the community that will

help you teach and learn and maybe
find that hunting partner that you

need that will actually put those
boots on and head up the mountain is

an amazing place to do it for sure
worth every penny just on that alone to

Joe Eppele: add on top of that, you
said, you know, for individuals that

want to get into hunting, but even
individuals that don't intend to

hunt this, these funds go towards.

Yeah.

Habitat restoration towards disease
prevention, education, things like that.

That's what this money's going towards.

One of those organizations, it's the
money directly goes to boots on the

ground efforts to making sure that
our landscape have these wild animals

on them for the future generations.

So even if you don't intend to hunt,
but you just love the outdoors, it's

a phenomenal organization to get
involved with on that basis alone.

And then down the road, yes, maybe one
day you'll get pulled into the fold

and looped into going on a hunt or have
an opportunity, but it's, you don't

have to be a hunter to come here and
feel good about being here and feel

good about what your money's doing.

Right.

So.

Travis Bader: Awesome.

Well said.

I think we, uh, call it a up there.

Yeah.

Sean Zubor: Thanks boys.

Travis Bader: It's been great.

Sean Zubor: Thanks for having me.