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Brand to Scale is a podcast where we talk to business leaders and industry influencers about how they built their brands. Each episode dives into real stories about starting up, growing through challenges, and what success looks like behind the scenes. It's an honest look at the people and ideas driving business forward.
[00:00:00] Speaker 6: Welcome to another episode of Brand to Scale, the podcast where I sit down with people who have built, grown, and transformed businesses, and uncover the real gritty stories behind the journeys. I'm Jess, your host, and today I'm joined by someone who has spent years helping businesses grow, navigate change, and create value through both organic growth and acquisition.
[00:00:18] Tom, welcome.
[00:00:19]
[00:00:26] Speaker: Thank you, Jess. Thanks for having me on the podcast.
[00:00:29] Speaker 2: Thanks for coming. So we've known each other for a while, but for the purposes of everyone listening, hopefully there are people listening, can you give us a quick introduction to who you are and your journey so far? Let's go with that.
[00:00:41] Speaker: Of course I can.
[00:00:42] Yeah. Um, so my name's Tom Wood. Uh, up until very recently I was CEO of Rawlings Group, and Rawlings Group are a packaging and equipment business. Um, uh, around 140 people, 35 million turnover. So I joined that business 14 years ago, so I've built and scaled it from a quite a small team of, of 10 people in one room to four or five different, uh, sites around the UK.
[00:01:07] We've expanded into different products, grown organically, launched new things, but we've also along the way grown, grown by acquisition, which has been a, a big piece of that. So been there a long time, 14, 15 years. I had another career before that, which was about pretty similar, um, uh, length, um, which was more corporate.
[00:01:24] So I started out, um, working for Unilever. I joined their grad scheme. I, uh, I guess I cut my teeth there, worked on different projects, learned a lot of different skills. Um, and that, that took me around the world as well. So I've worked in, i- in, in France and I've worked in Hong Kong, uh, and I've worked on different projects in consulting as well.
[00:01:41] So had a really interesting career so far. Enjoyed having that variety from being corporate and maybe part of a bigger machine to having really control in a, a smaller business where I was director and a sh- shareholder. Um, and as I mentioned at the beginning, I'm moving out of that now. So after, yeah, 14, 15 years doing that, I'm, I'm moving on and I'm now looking to work a bit closer with leadership teams and founders on a more consultative basis, uh, advisory work, uh, and simply trying to, uh, help people, um, who are going through, I suppose, what I'm going through and pass on some of the, the, uh, lessons that I've learnt along the way.
[00:02:18] Speaker 2: Tom, you look far too young to have had that career so far, all those experiences.
[00:02:23] Speaker: It was the '90s when I started s- uh, started in business, so yeah, that's, I mean, it's been, it's, it's not quite 30 years, but it's, it's t- it's 27, 28 years I think. That's-
[00:02:32] Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah. A whole host of, um, experiences to pull through to the next chapter, I'm, I'm sure.
[00:02:37] Um, just to go back, um, a few mil- more years than that, what did you wanna be when you grew up, Tom?
[00:02:43] Speaker: I don't think I ever knew. I think I, I enjoyed lots of things. I like variety, and that hasn't changed. I kind of, you know, I like going out. This place-- I grew up in a very rural part of East Devon, so I loved, uh, sort of investigating woods, cycling, going, going off and doing things, playing with my friends.
[00:02:57] But I think I probably went through school and also my degree, and maybe even the interview process for my first job, not really with a, a clear idea of what I wanted to do. Um, I just knew I liked, um, working with people. I like solving problems. I like things that are interesting. I li- like things that are novel.
[00:03:15] So I think, uh, coming, you know, coming through kind of, uh, the corporate stuff and then, um, ending up as a generalist has kind of suited me because, you know, I've always felt with an SME, when you're growing an SME, you go where you're needed. So that kind of ability to be flexible and, and, uh, turn, you know, if there's issues from the finance side, you've gotta apply yourself there.
[00:03:31] If there's issues from a people side, you have to apply yourself there, marketing, sales. So I think that suited me, having a little bit of, um, a little, enjoying that variety. I think, yeah, growing up, I really just wanted to do what, what I found fun, and luckily, most of my career has been pretty fun, and hopefully it's gonna get even more fun.
[00:03:49] Speaker 2: Very fortunate then, I'm sure. Definitely. What, um, what did your early career look like? Um, the graduate scheme with Unilever, what, what was that like, and what, what did that teach you on the way up?
[00:04:01] Speaker: Uh, it was, I was, I think I'm very fortunate because I think now you'd pro- to get that kind of job, you probably would have to know what you wanted to do, whereas I kind of fell into it a little bit, um, and didn't know how lucky I was at the time.
[00:04:13] Um, because it was, it, it was an extremely nurturing environment. There was a huge amount of training, um, and flexibility and the kind of projects and involvement you get on different things. So I think in terms... I moved into a direction that was, which has kind of led to where I am now 'cause it was kind of technology and business transformation products, so we worked on internal, internal projects within the different European business units.
[00:04:35] So I got to travel through that job, um, and harmonizing the way things were done in different countries, which was brilliant because I got that cultural awareness and I was out and about, and huge amount of training. Um, so I was extremely lucky, I think. It was a, it was a good time and as, as I said, I spent three years in France, you know, traveling around Europe working on diff- various different projects- Mm-hmm
[00:04:55] all internal projects- Mm-hmm ... from a technology and business change perspective, and then I did three years back in, back in the UK doing, doing some other things. So yeah, very fortunate. Um, and I think some of those roles are, as I said, a lot harder to find and get now. I don't think they'd send someone who is 22 and know nothing to, to France, uh, on an expatriate contract nowadays.
[00:05:13] It just wouldn't happen.
[00:05:14] Speaker 2: No, probably
[00:05:15] Speaker: not. I would s- Show my age again. It was still, it was the franc when I arrived there. There wasn't even the euro yet. It was still the franc,
[00:05:21] Speaker 2: so it was a while. Oh, showing your age now. Your age. What, um, you know, you've probably thrown into the thick of it a little bit then with, um, with that brand and, and the experience there.
[00:05:28] What, um, what did you learn about leadership, um, in, in that journey up?
[00:05:35] Speaker: I think, um, I l- I, what I learnt maybe haven't always applied well was the leaders that really took care of me, I took care of them back. Um, and I think that's really, really key. So the, you know, the, my, you know, manager when I was 25, uh, I n- I remember good managers and bad managers from that time, but the people that really kind of took, took care of the individual and understood what, that, that people do have different needs, they then got 100%, 110% from me.
[00:06:02] Um, so I think that ability to be flexible in h- in terms of how you, you, you lead, how you manage people, and just kind of people that are sort of aspirational and had big ideas and understood the bigger picture. That was something I think back then that I kind of, I didn't think I could do that because it felt like they were encompassing and understanding so many things at the same time, and then being able to channel them in and articulate them to a big group of people.
[00:06:23] So yeah, there were some people who were, who were definitely sort of heroes when I was starting out that, um, that I tried to emulate, but it, it takes a long time obviously to learn those skills.
[00:06:32] Speaker 2: Definitely. Did you, um, manage to keep in contact with any of those people in a sort of like mentor role almost?
[00:06:39] 'Cause y- when you find those people, you kind of want to cling onto them, don't you? I, I do anyway.
[00:06:43] Speaker: Yeah, no, I ha- I have done, I have done with some of them, and they've, they've seen my journey and I've, I've, I've seen, seen theirs. I mean, obviously people are all over the world and people are busy, so it's harder to getting together, but I have certainly stayed in touch with some of the key people, yeah.
[00:06:55] Speaker 2: That's brilliant. Mm. What about, you mentioned bad managers, uh, a little while back. Is there, is there anything that, you know, you don't have to name names obviously, unless you want to, but are there any traits that you came across, um, from managers or leaders that you thought, "Ooh, I'm definitely not gonna bring that forward into the way that, you know, I lead or manage people"?
[00:07:15] Speaker: Yeah, I mean, I think there's people who are less inspirational and there's people who are kind of, you know, very focused on, on task. Um, and I think, you know, with people, you do have to go slowly. You know, you go, you go slowly to go fast. Um, and I think it doesn't, it doesn't work sometimes to try and push thi- things through quickly, and that's, that's a difficult lesson to learn.
[00:07:31] I don't think I've always got that right either. Um, but, but and then there's another element I think which is, so I think that's just a kind of mis- mis- maybe more of a mistake in management or just a, a lack of understanding of how to get things done efficiently. But then there's the politics side I think, which is, is different again because that's probably a little bit more, you know, people know what they're doing.
[00:07:49] They're, they're d- you know, deliberately playing people off each against each other or, um, you know, deliberately focusing on things that aren't important for their, for their, I suppose, their own, um, gain rather than the gain of the group or the, the team or the company. Um, and I've certainly seen that, not necessarily at Unilever, but in consulting and other roles that I've done.
[00:08:06] Speaker 2: Is there, um, is there any... I'm gonna rephrase that question. You can edit this bit out, Alex. With, um, all that experience and then your last 14, 15 years with Rawlings Group, how, how did that come about? So you, you had all the ex- the experience obviously, but how do you, how do you get a CEO role, you know, from, from having a, a normal job if you like?
[00:08:27] Is it an application process? Do you get headhunted? Like how, how was that? Did you know someone? How does that work?
[00:08:33] Speaker: Yeah. It was a bit of luck really and, and the kind of the, the kind of the stars were aligned because I, um, I was in a role in Hong Kong and I kind of was at the end of my rope really with that.
[00:08:42] I wasn't, wasn't happy. Um, and then through my own personal w- network, I, through someone I knew quite well, I heard about this job. Um, and I did have to go through a non-recruiting process, but it was through my network that I found out about it and some of the family members I knew from, from a previous life.
[00:08:58] So it was, um, it, it wasn't un- un- a normal, you know, normal recruitment circumstances and I think that's where network's really critical and it's served me well for the rest of my life as well. Um, knowing what's happening, knowing people, people that are working with people they can trust is really key.
[00:09:13] So it was an unusual opportunity and I think if it had come, uh, you know, a year earlier or a year later, I might not have taken it because, um, I just happened to be in a point where I was keen to come back from Hong Kong to the UK. Uh, it was a point where I was starting a family, um, that the opportunity to move to Bristol was a, um- Uh, and be located in Bristol was a kind of a bonus compared to perhaps going back to London.
[00:09:37] So, so it was... I saw it really as a kind of, okay, like in a consulting project or transformation business change project, come in, run it for a year, fix the things that I knew about that I need fixing, and then move on to back to what I did before. So it, it was a bit of a leap of faith, but because I'd, in my head it was never gonna be something that's permanent, um, and it was just gonna be another string to my bow, I suppose, I was willing to take that risk.
[00:10:02] And e- every year something's happened, it's got interesting and, and the years have gone past. So it, it, it, it took me down a road when I decided to do it that I had no, um, you know, no realization it would. It was, it was a surprise to some extent that the years racked up because there was always something good happening and I, I never got bored.
[00:10:18] Speaker 2: Wow. Well, yeah, there's a key theme there I think with, um, business owners, leaders, entrepreneurs that we speak to in that, um, things constantly changing and evolving keeps things interesting, doesn't it? And that, that's when, um, that's where the excitement is, definitely.
[00:10:30] Speaker: 100%.
[00:10:32] Speaker 2: Is, um, is there... You mentioned networks there, and I'm a big advocate for, for building your network 'cause lots of the opportunities that I've had throughout the years as well have been because of networks that I've joined.
[00:10:39] How much importance do you put on
[00:10:44] that, and what, what advice would you give to, you know, budding business owners and leaders in, you know, in 2026, I guess, in terms of getting out there and building that network?
[00:10:54] Speaker: Yeah. It's worked for me. I think it's hugely important, um, not just from a, you know, not, not from a basic kind of customer's perspective, but from a, you know, having a good sounding board, having people to turn to if you've got a problem, and people understanding what you're going through or have gone through that before.
[00:11:09] 'Cause sometimes just in a couple of sentences you can, you can get a nugget that's just so valuable. Um, but, but I think the advice, I think I, I have seen leaders and, uh, and founders who are quite internal looking on their businesses and, and there's a time for that as well. But I think, um, someone, I think in, in a growing business or i- depending what your role is, needs to have that outside view as well and be open to spending time with- without really knowing what the, what the gain is gonna be or knowing that you're planting seeds perhaps for sort of benefiting in six months, in 12 months.
[00:11:42] Um, and that's, you know, it works for some people to be quite internal looking, but I definitely advise, uh, people to work their network 'cause there comes a time when you'll need it and need that support
[00:11:51] Speaker 2: Absolutely. Is there, um, value in thinking of ... I, I certainly think so. Value in thinking of going into those networks with the knowledge that you've got as well and imparting that for no real gain, you know, not just to impart wisdom for a fee, but, like, to sit in those rooms and, you know, share your career journeys and challenges as well, and being open about that.
[00:12:11] 'Cause it can be quite, there's that cliche phrase, I suppose, it's lonely at the top, isn't it? But if you're in a room with peers, then it can be you, you know, sharing that knowledge is, is valuable.
[00:12:21] Speaker: Yeah. I mean, uh, absolutely. I think, I think, um, I think you've, uh, you've used the word therapy before. I think being able to be totally open and honest in certain rooms is, is really, really valuable because- You know, you can walk in there and, you know, be holding onto stuff you don't even know you're holding onto, and then through the process of talking, you're working out issues and, and just from the affirmations you get from people or people kind of understanding you, I think that's really important.
[00:12:44] And you might, you know, you might have a great leadership team and have big relationships within your business where you can do that, but sometimes as the leader, as, as an MD or CEO, you, you, you can't really be always showing that, saying those things and showing not necessarily weaknesses, but kind of, you know, you've, you've got that role in the business, and it's a lot harder really
[00:13:01] Speaker 2: to open up.
[00:13:02] Absolutely. Mm-hmm. With your, um, appointment with Rawlings Group then, you, you said that there were things that you knew you were going in to fix and that you, you knew you had to get done. Um, and it was quite, quite a small team to begin with. So-
[00:13:15] Speaker: Yeah ...
[00:13:15] Speaker 2: through, through that journey, what were the challenges you, you didn't expect that you, you faced, um, along the way, and some, you know, things that you had to get good at fast to be able to do that job?
[00:13:26] Speaker: The, the thing I didn't expect was early in the f- in the first few weeks I had to cancel a, a typewriter service contract - What? ... that we're still paying. Yeah. This is, this is a funny side thing. So the business is very traditional, so te- the tech, so the orders were sort of still triple stamped back in those days.
[00:13:45] So the early low-hanging fruit was very low hanging and very easy to do. So yeah, there was, they were literally paying for a typewriter service contract. Um, I couldn't believe it when I opened the letter. I was like, "Right. Well, we got, you know, £60 saving a year here." Um, but they-
[00:13:59] Speaker 2: Wow. Did you think there was like code for some other type of technology or something?
[00:14:03] Speaker: No, because there was one person who had a typewriter still. So-
[00:14:07] Speaker 2: Wow ...
[00:14:07] Speaker: um, so and this is, you know, 2010. So it was the... You say get up to speed quite quickly. I guess the har- the hardest thing there was kind of my expectations on, you know, capability of the team. But, but there was things that I could do very quickly around, you know, technology.
[00:14:24] So we sort of moved systems quite quickly to a, you know, software, because stuff I was doing before was, you know, putting in cloud and software as a service technology solutions. So, you know, the, the p- the path, the route for technology change was very quick 'cause it was, it was a lot of paper-based stuff.
[00:14:38] Um, and so I sort of steered, not steered clear, but I didn't really, uh, focus massively on the, the kind of the industry and the sector and customer relationships I picked up. But it took a while to understand how the industry worked. Um, but there was a lot of things around team structures, technology, HR, processes, um, procedures, all that kind of stuff that, um- That we had to put in quite quickly and, you know, doing it quite a light touch when you're one site, one warehouse, and, and, uh, 10, 10, 11 people, that was, you know, quite straightforward.
[00:15:08] But I think understanding the capabilities of my team and trying to work out how to communicate with them, how to, how to manage them, because coming from a consulting background, you know, you've got bigger teams, people with more experience, expectations are higher. Um, so I had to kind of, you know, moderate some of those expectations and actually, you know, take my time to really know what people did.
[00:15:25] 'Cause there was, coming from the corporate background, there's some people who were extremely capable and doing a fantastic job, but they weren't used to having, you know, one-to-ones and reviews, and they weren't used to having to justify what they did or, you know, they might not be able to fill out forms properly, but they were bloody good at what they do.
[00:15:42] And that was, that was a learning as well and that, I think that taught me not to, you know, judge a book by its cover. There's, there's people who are brilliant out there who, who, um, are keeping things together but they're not, not so good as, good at kind of telling that story.
[00:15:52] Speaker 2: Mm. I would imagine that, you know, the, the people element would've been quite, quite a big challenge there as well from going from sports- Yeah
[00:15:59] and you coming in from the outside as well as an outsider rather than someone, you know, moving up from within the ranks. So we- were there any, I dunno, obstacles to overcome in terms of culture from you, you coming in from the outside?
[00:16:14] Speaker: Um, no, I don't think so. Not from a cultural perspective, 'cause I, you know, I think I kept an open mind and, um, and 'cause it was quite a s- as I said, small team, and in those days it was pretty much in the office Monday to- everyone's in the office Monday to Friday.
[00:16:27] There's a couple of sales reps on the road. But I, I had the opportunity to spend a lot of time with people individually. Um, so that really helped. And I also recruit- uh, as, as I was being recruited, I recruited a general manager, um, who came in who had much more experience in small businesses than I did, so I sort of relied on her a lot for a long time.
[00:16:48] And, uh, particularly, I guess, getting going, she was a bit of a sounding board 'cause she was new too, but, and she was from Bristol and worked with small businesses, so she was probably better than me at, at kind of working out what was really going on and talking to the people. So, you know, that was invaluable.
[00:17:03] Speaker 2: So you had a wing woman, basically- Yeah ... to start with. That's really, that must've been really helpful, yeah.
[00:17:09] Speaker: Yeah, yeah. A b- uh, yeah, very grateful for that.
[00:17:11] Speaker 2: With the, um, the, the people element then, you mentioned about spending quite a lot of time with them, um, at the beginning. How, how vital was that, um, to, to start off on the right foot?
[00:17:20] And, you know, how do, how can people navigate that if it's a much bigger business? 'Cause you grew into a much bigger business, so I'm assuming spending that much time with everyone that you bring in is not gonna be, you know, doable at a certain point.
[00:17:33] Speaker: No. No, exactly. I mean, I think it was really important for me at the beginning 'cause, um- We, we did have a, we were sort of, you know, on the decline as a business because we hadn't moved forward and competition was, was, uh, doing things differently.
[00:17:44] Um, and, and that was putting pressure on some of our very long-standing relationships with customers that had gone from, I guess, the old model of, you know, always buying from Rawlings, uh, always paying the initial price, um, and being quite comfortable relationship, but perhaps not having, you know, the right processes in place for managing key accounts, for understanding what stakeholders of that customer were.
[00:18:04] So I did need to spend time with, you know, the people, commercial people was... I know it wasn't very many, right? There was three or four. But people who were customer-facing, dealing with customers to understand what was going on with some of those key accounts because we were quite... I think when I started probably something like 40, 40% of our business was with Western Cider.
[00:18:24] Um, great customer. Um, but they had grown from a family business where we had a long-standing loyal relationship to perhaps becoming a bit more of a, you know, mid, mid-size, mid-size business with new people coming in who were under pressure to make supply chain savings. So that kind of relationship with those customers was changing, so I did need to work quite closely with those people and get, get across some of those relationships, both in the, both down the supply chain to, to customers and that supply chain to our suppliers and understand what supplier relationships we had in place.
[00:18:58] Because things like, you know, a lot of it was done still on, you know, gentleman's agreements, contracts were missing, that kind of thing. So there was a lot of, um, a lot of change. But I managed to sit, you know, I managed to have that, that fa- lot of face time to, to ensure that that was, um, that was clear.
[00:19:11] But you're right. When, when you're bigger, that's impossible and, you know, uh, I think, you know, it feels like there's a sort of depends on the type of business and where you're located, because we had people, you know, by, by the end we had people in five different offices, so that made it harder. And obviously having 130, 140 people also made it harder.
[00:19:27] So at that point, um, communication Has to be planned, you know, instead of by osmosis and just talking to people and everyone knowing each other. You need to know, you know, what you're sending out, when you're sending it out. It needs to be reviewed. It needs to obviously be go to the leadership team first, and then y- you need a, you need a strategy around how you do communication, which is, it, it makes everything much more complicated.
[00:19:49] And of course, there were a lot of people in the business who were working in different sites that were recruited and I never met, and I no longer knew what their kids were called, what their dog was called and all that kind of stuff. So it does change, uh, and you, you know, how, how the business is run, how you approach things, what structure's in place.
[00:20:05] That needs to be built up as you go, because without that, that's the scaffolding the whole thing together. Absolutely. And, and as the CEO
[00:20:12] Speaker 2: then, um, it would have been your responsibility, I guess, to make sure that, you know, the vision, mission, values of the, the business are communicated, um, across the organization. Is that something you had a chance to mold and change when you came in? Or was it quite an established business and all that was, you know, set and, you know, ingrained already?
[00:20:31] Speaker: No, I mean, over the course of the years, we, we, we revisited that probably many, many times. So I think at the beginning, none of that was set. I mean, there was-- There wouldn't have been any values or missions, and probably f- to be, to be honest, for the first, um, you know, few years that I was there, uh, we probably didn't put that in place because it felt like being in one room and working together, there was a kind of a implicit understanding of what those things were and the direction we were going in.
[00:20:55] We had plans, we had strategies. But I think when we got to a certain size, we realized it was becoming more of a problem probably, and we needed something to help us, and we start- we implemented, um, EOS, Entrepreneurial Operating System, which is a model built by a guy called Gino Wickman. I don't know if you've heard of it.
[00:21:14] Um-
[00:21:14] Speaker 2: No, I haven't. Tell me more.
[00:21:16] Speaker: So you haven't heard of it? Ah. No. So, um, so it's a, uh, it's a bunch of, I guess, tools and techniques and models for, for running growing businesses, and it covers off, you know, the people side. It covers off how you, how you run meetings, how you set, um, short-term, medium-term, and long-term goals, how you set your vision, how you set your mission, how you set your values.
[00:21:35] Um, so it pretty much co- covers the four limits of running a business, and that helped kind of harmonize- The way things were done across the business, 'cause particularly when you grow by, uh, acquisition, um, people had their, you know, their, their thoughts around or their ways of doing things that might be so deeply ingrained and they might think that's normal, but in another business, other thing's normal.
[00:21:56] So it helps harmonize the way you do things and gives a kind of common semantic platform to everything you do so that if, if in the US world you talk about a rock, a rock is a, a three-month objective. Um, because we're finding that I think communication was getting harder because people were having a conversation but coming away from it with perhaps different understandings because, you know, the way they did things were different and the way they thought about things were different and, you know, how they set priorities and how they did things were different.
[00:22:26] So it helped us harmonize. It's quite a simple model, but quite difficult still to get right because it's business and people and, um, but, but it was really helpful in terms of, you know, creating accountability, making sure everyone was on the same page, making sure we had the right people in the right seats, um, and, and gives a bit of a, a, a platform to, to kind of grow from and to create a, a common understanding of what we're trying to achieve, a common, you know, scorecard, understanding what, what results we're looking to get, um, and all the elements that you need to move the business forward.
[00:22:59] Speaker 2: The EOS then, if, if a business was, you know, th- listening and going, "That sounds like a great idea," like, where do they need to go, um, for this? Is it a program, or can you just go online and find the model? Like, how does that work?
[00:23:10] Speaker: Yeah, you can Google it and, and see a couple of videos to get an overview. Um, I'm always happy to talk to anyone about it, having benefited from it.
[00:23:17] Um, we, uh, when we came to implement it, we used an integrator, so... Uh, implementer, sorry, not integrator. So, um, E- EOS implementer works with you, um, for a year while you're putting all the pieces of the jigsaw and the bits, what they call the toolbox, into place. So there's, there's, you know, there's a lot to it, but it's stuff that you, you know, as a kind of, uh, uh, you know, a business that's doing things in the right way, you probably have similar things already, but it, it, it structures it in the EOS way.
[00:23:41] So Google it, have a look. It is a bit... You've gotta sort of bear with it because it's extremely American. Um, and that, I think, puts quite a lot of people off, and it did me initially as well. Actually, um, you know, it c- it, it works, and it's, I think as you grow, it helps to have a model so everyone understands what, what you're talking about.
[00:24:00] It makes it efficient. You know, at leadership level, you know, there's a thing called, they call it the L10, which is a weekly meeting where you m- you really discuss the most important issues and try and solve them there, create a set of to-dos to, within a s- seven-day window to solve and move forward. So it, it focuses your leadership team in a cadence of, meeting cadence, I guess, and of how you talk about problems, how you review your key numbers on your scorecard quickly.
[00:24:29] Um, so it's, it, it's, it's very efficient, and yeah, it's worked for us. I would recommend it. I think if, if you're struggling as a owner or founder to, you know, you know, it, you know, common problems, problems around people, problems around accountability, um, problems around, you know, focus, trust, I think it helps resolve those in a, a...
[00:24:45] Not, not straight away, and it's, it's a journey you go on, right? And I th- I've known businesses that have been on EOS for 10 years, and they still haven't got it 100% right. It's just, it's a journey that points you in the right direction. Um, that it, it, it uncovers possibly the things that you might- Uh, have been avoiding if they're sort of weak spots for you, you know, as a leader Mm-hmm.
[00:25:02] Speaker 2: And there's absolutely nothing worse than a meeting for meeting's sake, is, is there? Especially when you're busy. So yeah, getting those actions out in a more efficient way sounds like everyone would be a winner there.
[00:25:14] Speaker: 100%. And the, the really, uh, one of the, one of the interesting things about it is it has a, it's a real fo- it's a real focus on time.
[00:25:21] So one of the EOS, um, sayings is, uh, "On time is late." So they expect if it's a 9:00 meeting, you get there a couple of minutes early, do your chit-chatting. It starts at 9:00 on the dot. And for example, the L10 leadership, the L10 finishes, it's a 90-minute meeting, it finishes after 90 minutes. So you might have discussed one issue, you might...
[00:25:41] and, and got a few actions off that if it's a big one, or you might discuss 20 issues. But anything, it's a dynamic issues list that during the week you, you prioritize in that meeting and discuss and solve. But after that 90 minutes is up, the meeting is over, and everyone knows that. So that focus is behind too.
[00:25:57] Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Um, with, with the, the, the values and the culture side, it's, it's one which, you know, is gonna be an exercise in, in that model, I would, I would assume. Um, it's one thing to have your sort of values, you know, pasted on a really pretty mural in the, the office, um, corridor somewhere.
[00:26:12] Um, and it's another to actually live to those, like, behaviors that uphold those values, isn't it? Yeah. So how, how do you, um, you know, what- once the leadership team's decided on, on what those are, how, how do you then instill that in, in a business?
[00:26:25] Speaker: So I mean, again, I can, I can talk about how it's done with EOS, 'cause that makes it quite simple.
[00:26:29] Um-
[00:26:29] Speaker 2: Mm.
[00:26:29] Speaker: You have, in EOS you have what, a one-pager which has y- your vision, your mission, your core values, your one-year picture, I think it's called, three-year plan, and 10-year vision. So it's all on one page. And the way that, um, it is embedded is that it's communicated regularly. It's, it's, you go through... So any team that has a meeting has, looks at the, um, what's called a VTO, looks at this one-pager during that meeting.
[00:26:57] So it's there as a bit of an all staff for everyone at all times. Um, one of the other concepts is that, you know, you talk about- You talk back to the team on a quarterly basis called the quarterly pulse, and during that you go through all the elements of the, of that, um, of that document. So you are repeating what the values are, you're living them, you're seeing them on a regular basis and, and you're kind of encouraged to try and make them as simple as possible 'cause I think, um, you know, sometimes they can be aspirational and not really reflect the business or be too complex.
[00:27:27] And as you said, just be put on the wall and everyone leaves it. But, um, with this model, they're, you know, they're visited regularly and also they're used for a lot of the kind of business decisions, business processes. So, you know, in terms of when you, when you hire, you're looking at, looking at those core values against the candidates for, for hiring.
[00:27:44] You're using those core values to, um, to look at people when, when, when you go to your one-to-ones. So they're, they're brought out and, and weaved into many different processes. Um, so I think it, it, it does mean that those core values are who you are, but also who you want to be, you know, so, and who you, who you have to be and what yous need to stick true to.
[00:28:01] And again, we didn't get it right initially. Um, and Uh, and they were probably too, you know, would like to be this, or this is what we should be, or feeling that other people had these kind of values. So- Mm ... so yeah, keeping them simple I think is good. And, and, and people need to understand them and know what that means for them and why it's important, and I think if it is part of their, um, assessments, then it puts it a bit, you know, higher to mind in terms of are you, are you living out, can you give examples of when you've been living these values, you know?
[00:28:29] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[00:28:29] Speaker: If it's collaborative, what, when have you, what have you done that's collaborative? And you get the opportunity also to, um, you know, praise other people within your team and put them forward. You know- Mm ... this is an example when John was, was collaborative. He worked with a different department to get this outcome and, and has helped me for these reasons.
[00:28:44] So when that starts happening, it's brilliant, and it becomes part of the language that people are using- Mm ...
[00:28:50] Speaker 2: uh,
[00:28:50] Speaker: internally when they're talking about why something was good. You know, when you start hearing that, you know it's working.
[00:28:56] Speaker 2: When you're, when you're a really young business, I suppose, and you're, you're building a team from scratch, doing that first is, is easier, right?
[00:29:02] Because tho- those values are based on your beliefs really, and, and the reason you're building something, and then you hire, like you said, based on those values. It must be much more difficult building that with an established team and then training people to behave to those values. So- Yeah ... one, two, two probably questions there is, is, is that harder?
[00:29:23] Is it, and is it possible, and does it take longer? And how did you know that you got it wrong a couple of times? What were the, what were the, um, the proof points there where you were like, "The- these aren't quite right"?
[00:29:34] Speaker: Yeah, I mean, I think you can get it wrong because you've got the wrong values, but you can also get the implementation wrong.
[00:29:42] Um, so I think mentioned before about getting the wrong ones because it just didn't feel right. Like, people couldn't remember them, or they kind of, you know, they weren't, you know, but weren- and they were too complicated. But implementation, I think if you know they're right, then it's diff- it, you shouldn't, you know, I don't think you should- Necessarily change them based on s- one demographic's feedback.
[00:30:04] So I think particularly when you grow by, um, acquisition, there are challenges in terms of integrating that business and, you know, not everyone, you know, the cross-section of employees, some will kind of be completely against it and be disruptive. Some will be kind of on board straight away and, you know, and there's a middle section that are kind of on the fence, which is most people.
[00:30:24] Yeah. But I think if you know you've got them right, and you're consistent and, you know, clear and you keep explaining and you, you know, you acknowledged it, it's a different way than they might have done things before, um, and that you're gonna give people time, um, I think eventually most people accept that, and they accept that they are gonna be assessed on them.
[00:30:46] And there's reasons why these are the right, uh, values, and this is who we are as a business. And I think the good thing about putting that in place and being consistent about it is it kind of manages itself in terms of the, the result you get with people, you know? There's, th- there will be people that just leave, you know, and I think often you, you get a feeling that they're not buying into it and come thinking we've got a problem down the road.
[00:31:08] But they see that s- this isn't going away and it's not for them. They can't live to those values. They're not happy perhaps about what's been put in place and the change that's come about and, and they m- they make the decision for themselves it's not for them. And that's a win for them and a win for the business 'cause they don't fit and, um, I think that's, yeah, sort of more humane I think than
[00:31:29] 'Cause the whole system is that, you know, you're being very clear about the why. It's not, it's not, you know, there's evidence, it's evidence-based and a- around why, why they're important, so.
[00:31:37] Speaker 2: Hmm.
[00:31:37] Speaker: Yeah.
[00:31:37] Speaker 2: And I suppose it's not just about attracting the right people into the business as well, is it? It's about, um, communicating that externally as well, so you're attracting the right, right customers.
[00:31:48] Would that be fair to say?
[00:31:51] Speaker: Yeah. I mean, again, with the model we've, we've got the, like, hopefully, you know, s- so- how is we used EOS in the past, should I say, um, that comes across, I think, in the behaviors and the customer service that, that you get. Um, I, I don't think we've published externally our values, 'cause really the proof's in the pudding in terms of how that translates into results, accountability, how you manage your customer, um, and what we are as a business.
[00:32:15] But we certainly did, you know, sort of, um, customer surveys in terms of how they're, they're felt and whether, whether the elements, I suppose, within those values were coming across in how we were serving those customers. Mm. Um, and it's good to see that on a, you know, an upward, um, trajectory, um, and improving all the time.
[00:32:30] Speaker 2: And that, that's the difference, isn't it, between having it as a nice pretty mural on the wall and actually living the behaviors that, um, yeah, that, that you've, you've defined. Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned, um, growth through acquisition there. For, for the novices listening, what is the difference between organic growth and growth through acquisition?
[00:32:47] Speaker: Um, so acquisition is when you buy either the shares or the assets and goodwill of another company, and either roll that into your business or manage it as a separate business within a group. Uh, and organic growth is, uh, either launching new products into your customer markets or increasing what your offering is, so growing in a, in a traditional sense.
[00:33:11] Speaker 2: Mm. How would, um, how would a business know which avenue is the, is the right one, and i- is there an answer to that, really?
[00:33:18] Speaker: Um, I think... Well, most businesses, I think, should be, I guess, trying to grow, or I mean, not every business, but I guess in or even in order to stay still in the markets that are out there, you need to plan to grow organically, um, because someone else is always gonna be trying to encroach on your market.
[00:33:36] So I think most businesses should be working out what their strategy is to grow organically. Um, on top of that, if- If a company does want to grow by acquisition, then that's, that's another proposition. It's quite a big undertaking. Um, uh, I enjoy it and I think it, it can, it, the... I guess the, the analogy would be it's the difference between sort of a linear, organic growth can be more of a linear growth, and acquisition growth can be a step change in growth, uh, if you get it right.
[00:34:06] Speaker 2: That can sound quite exciting. So I'm, uh, you know, growth can be a bit faster, I guess, with acquisition if you're, if you're doing it that way. But what would be some of the mistakes that businesses would make when, when trying to do that? Um, is it down to the, the in- the culture integration, like you mentioned earlier, or- Yeah
[00:34:24] other factors that would make that a bad, a bad move?
[00:34:28] Speaker: I think there's, uh, there's a lot of different ways you can certainly get it wrong. I mean, if you get it right, it can, it can be brilliant. Um, uh, culture, I think, yeah, culture's a huge one. Yeah. So I think if, depending on how you're gonna manage things, you don't wanna ruin what you got, whether that's people, product, customer base, any of those elements.
[00:34:44] And I think when you're, when you're throwing sort of two businesses in the mix, there's... If you're planning on kind of integrating rather than running them separately, of course, cultural clash and can be, can be a huge one. I mean, uh, uh, essentially that, that, you know, you, you, you're adding complexity and the number of, you know, doubling the size of a team can increase complexity and people issues probably by a factor of four.
[00:35:06] Mm-hmm. So that's something that is, is tricky. But not just, not just complexity around people, but also what your real core offering is. I think, you know, you've got to have a quite stable business where your processes and procedures are working well, um, and you're kind of, you know what you're about, you know what your core business is, and that's working well because it can be a distraction, you know, a distraction for the le- leadership team, the board to start looking at something else.
[00:35:31] Um, and there's, there can be a risk obviously that you ignore the thing that is the engine behind what, what your business is, what your main products are, how you're servicing your customers, you know. So it's important to get that balance right and su- ensure you're kind of stable enough and strong enough to be able to move into other areas.
[00:35:46] And I think, you know, that has been a challenge because you do need to then grow leadership team, capabilities, organization, um, and make sure you've got the right people in the right seats to be able to handle both activities happening at the same time.
[00:36:00] Speaker 2: And I imagine, you know, how you described yourself a- around it, you know, ex- excited by, by change and transformation and, you know, new things to fix.
[00:36:08] It probably would be important not to get distracted by that new shiny thing over there until that bit, the core business is running really well, like you said, so that you can sort of, you know, direct your attention somewhere else for a while.
[00:36:19] Speaker: Yeah. I mean, or have, or have a leadership team that can handle that.
[00:36:21] So, you know, you know, we had an MD who looked after the day-to-day running the business, and I, I was looking more at sort of long-term strategy, um, acquisition, um, you know, big bits of growth and that kind of thing.
[00:36:31] Speaker 2: Is, um, is that something that still excites you? Helping businesses grow through acquisition, is that something that you'd be keen on doing more of?
[00:36:40] Speaker: Yeah, so started talking, you know, as I said, I've started, since I've come out of my CEO role I've been doing some advisory work. I've been doing some mentoring. I think what excites me is working with, working with leadership teams and, and, uh, founders that really wanna, wanna do something and wanna, uh, achieve something.
[00:36:55] So M&A is definitely there and I really enjoy it because, um, if you get it right, as I said, it can be transformational. Um, and I enjoy working with that sort of SME side of the market. You know, I think if you, if you s- if you look at the how it works, the acquisition space, once you get sort of bigger businesses where private equity or kind of institutional, um, buyers are interested, that's then a little bit of a different game.
[00:37:21] I think in the SME space where enterprise value is perhaps less than 10 million, you're looking at businesses that are probably still, um, owner occupied and run, and they're probably plateauing. They're getting to a point where, um, they don't know how to take things to the next level. So the interest factor there is helping them on the journey, sellers on the journey as well because they probably still care about the brand, they probably still care about, uh, the people, their customers.
[00:37:47] Um, it's a very emotion- Y- you know, they've only got one chance of doing this. It's a very emotional process for, for sellers. Um, so, you know, m- building rapport, understanding what they want out of the deal, which is not always just financial- Mm-hmm ... uh, is really important. And then, and then kind of I guess the intellectual challenge is seeing how that can mesh with what, what's already there, and hopefully create something stronger.
[00:38:11] So I think that bit I like. I like the, uh, sort of the working with individuals on both sides, buy and sell side, understanding what makes them tick, and then, you know, imagining a future of these two entities together. That's, that's exciting.
[00:38:24] Speaker 2: Hmm. I wanna definitely talk more about the leadership mentoring, you know, work you're going into now.
[00:38:29] Um, but you, you have done obviously a lot of work in your CEO role, and a lot of change happened there, and a lot of, um, uh, transformation work. Was, can you talk a little bit about coming out of that role, and is there, you know, is there a period of time where someone could look at something and go, "I, I've done here what I came to do, and now it's time to move on"?
[00:38:52] And how, how would they, they identify that? Is it feeling a little bit bored, like, "I've done everything that I can do, now it's time for somebody else's, um, you know, crack at the whip," as it were?
[00:39:02] Speaker: Yeah, I think it's- It's, there's probably several different points where you could jump off that I've had over the years.
[00:39:12] Um, and I think there's been enough in the next phase to sort of keep me interested. I think if you're going through a, you know, if you're in the middle of a three-year strategy, uh, uh, and you haven't finished what you're doing, then, then that's one thing. I think for me At the moment because of some regulatory changes, it's quite challenging in the industry in terms of sort of growth.
[00:39:34] So the focus has probably shifted to more to, uh, operational efficiency and cost cutting and that kind of thing. And I, I, you know, enjoy that to some extent, but I'm probably more motivated by and probably can add more value in the kind of the, the strategic growth, um, and M&A side. So for Rawlings at
[00:39:52] the moment, they're not looking to do any more acquisitions for the interim. They're kind of, you know, we're in a situation where it's like make these work, integrate them properly, probably reduce, like reduce, reduce the, uh, operational sites, that kind of thing. Um, create some ef- efficiencies. So, so for me, I think it's a good time to, um, move into a different stage of my career and, um, uh, and, and look at what I learned around acquisitions and growth and
[00:40:13] Speaker 2: M&A.
[00:40:14] And take that forward to some other businesses who need advice, definitely. Is there, um, is there part of you that was looking for another long-term CEO role, or was the going into the advisory space more, more appealing to you? I
[00:40:29] Speaker: think at the moment it's more appealing. I, I, it's early doors still. It's only a few weeks since, um, since I've been out, you know, two, two or three weeks.
[00:40:36] So, so I think, um, at the moment I haven't been a long time in one place. I'd just love to work with a lot of different people on a fractional basis and apply some of the things I know and, you know, the common, the common lessons. And I think that's a good opportunity also to just take stock and to learn.
[00:40:53] I think that's probably a better option for me than jumping into something with a big time commitment and big pressure that's new. But, um, you know, never say never.
[00:41:02] Speaker 2: Never say never.
[00:41:03] Speaker: Mm.
[00:41:03] Speaker 2: With the, um, the work that you're gonna be doing now with the advisory and mentorship stuff, what, what's really attractive about that?
[00:41:10] Is it the, you know, taking the learning that you just said in, into new roles, or is it, you know, the excitement of being able to grow somebody else's business for them? Like, from, from the outside, from my perspective, I'd be like, well, that's, that's a great way to approach it, but you'd still be supporting someone to build something for them- Yeah
[00:41:25] rather than you. So how does, how does that feel?
[00:41:30] Speaker: Yeah, no, it feels, it feels quite good at the moment. Um, I, I, I do take your point. I think, um, I think I... You know, you asked me before about what my personal values are in the past. I
[00:41:40] Speaker 2: did, didn't I, once upon a time? Past, in-
[00:41:42] Speaker: Yeah Yeah. Yeah. And, and I, I had a little think about that, and I think that's- That's very aligned, I suppose, to what I'm trying to do here, 'cause I think I've c- I've whittled them down to growth, impact, and freedom.
[00:41:55] Um, so I think fr- from a growth perspective, it's about me, me growing and me learning and me understanding, but also, you know, helping and growing, growing a business. Um- And I think this, that ticks that box 'cause I think working with multiple people on a fractional basis, I'm gonna learn a lot, and also I'm gonna be able to see the impact of that or see, see the, see the growth in those businesses.
[00:42:14] Um, and obviously the third one, freedom, I think, you know, the flexibility to work with the people I really wanna work with- Mm ... um, and have the, have the choice is quite key. Um, and impact, I think about contributions. So I think, you know, seeing what I can contribute, seeing the impact of helping people. So I think it feels at the moment those, you know, this option and working with people and working advisory basis gives me, ticks those boxes and is in line with my values are.
[00:42:41] Um, there might come a time, as you said, in the future where I've kind of a, a keen to grow something of my own. So I think, you know, I'm not closing the door essentially to either doing something of my own, buying a business, doing something a bit more entrepreneurial. So I think that's definitely on the cards.
[00:42:56] Um, but, but for the moment, I think, uh, having, having this, this role and this, this path is, is, is right thing for me for now.
[00:43:01] Speaker 2: Mm. I'd like to touch on the, the freedom element of that a little bit 'cause obviously you were in quite a high pressure job. I imagine that took you quite away from family, working long hours.
[00:43:12] So is that something that you're keen to not do again for, for that reason, for a while? You know, to, to be available more, to
[00:43:20] Speaker: you know- Well, yes, to some extent. Um, but I think hopefully, you know, even if I went into another full-time role, then y- you can still build a freedom within that. And I think it's, it's, it's not necessarily being able to where, be where I wanna be at any time, but more the working with the people that I really wanna work with and really enjoying what I want to do.
[00:43:40] Mm. So the different ways I get of, I guess, of getting to that goal. But I think I was also lucky perhaps compared to people in more corporate jobs when I was in, in Rawlings 'cause, um, although it was, yeah, as you know, senior role as CEO, there was flexibility in terms of how I delivered that. And, um, they felt like there was control, and I've known what it's like to be in a corporate role where you don't feel like you have control.
[00:44:05] Um, and that's almost the opposite of, of, of freedom if you don't have any control about how you do things, when you do them, what manner you do them. So, so I think I've been lucky on that value anyway for the last few years. But-
[00:44:16] Speaker 2: Yeah ...
[00:44:16] Speaker: obviously with the my, you know, being on a more on a fractional basis and advisory, it's even, even, even more level of freedom in terms of- You know, discrete projects that have a beginning and end perhaps, working with people that I really wanna work with 'cause I believe in what they're trying to achieve and i- in a relatively short-term basis, I guess.
[00:44:32] Speaker 2: Mm.
[00:44:32] Speaker: And I think, you know, as I said, I'm g- giving myself six months to a year to see how that goes and reflect on what's working, what's not working, and then I can consider my options because, um, yeah, I'm certainly not ready to, um, you know, sort of slow down quite yet.
[00:44:47] Speaker 2: Absolutely. Is, um, you know, thr- through all of that, that change, that role, what you're, you're doing now, how important is...
[00:44:54] I mean, you f- you seem like quite an unflappable person, quite calm, in control, which I imagine is really helpful in the roles that you've done. Correct me if I'm wrong. But the question, I suppose, is around, um, mindset and how important you think, you know, working on that is, um, a- as a leader in business.
[00:45:14] Speaker: Yeah, I think I've got a lot, um- a lot better as I've got older, uh, uh, a mindset I think, 'cause I think, um, I don't know if I'm unflappable. I, um, I try and put things in perspective and try and stay calm, but, um, pressure, I think pressure does get to everyone, and there's been times when, you know, things have felt too much.
[00:45:33] But I think, you know, it- the cliche, isn't it, but understanding that you can only control the things you can control. Um, and you can only work on those. There's always gonna be external factors that come at you. Um, uh, and, and I guess being, when they do happen, just trying to work through them, realize that if they feel, you know, very, very, very difficult, that will pass in a way.
[00:45:57] You know, you can only work with what you've got. So
[00:45:59] Speaker 2: nice. So
[00:45:59] Speaker: I think my mindset's got, got stronger 'cause I know that, um, things will be okay in the end, and I know that, you know, I trust the process that, you know, challenges come at you, and you work through them, and you resolve them, and then you move on.
[00:46:11] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
[00:46:11] Speaker: Um, s- and I think I'm comfortable with the grays and uncertainty, uh, more than I probably was in the past.
[00:46:17] Speaker 2: I love that. Comfortable with the uncertainty. That's, um, yeah, that's, that's a really great phrase, I think. Mm. And I, I like the, um, you know, everything is temporary phrase, which can be a positive and a negative, can't it, if it- if you're talking about something positive that's happening.
[00:46:30] But I think leaning on that a little bit helps sometimes. Um- With- And often when you look back at things that seemed like they were just the worst thing in the world happening- Yeah ... three months later, you look back and go, "Oh, that wasn't so bad, actually. I handled it fine."
[00:46:46] Speaker: The strange thing is I sort of think I'm more in touch with my emotions than when I was younger.
[00:46:52] You know, I real- I'm more aware of what they're doing to my decision-making and my mindset. Mm. Whereas I didn't, I thought that would, you'd become more emotionless when you're younger, when you're older because, you know, younger people are sort of, you know, much more swayed by that kind of thing. But I think I'm more in touch.
[00:47:05] I re- I can see it now, whereas, uh, and see how important they are in other people in terms of their decision-making- Mm ... um, and the things they do. And, and, um, uh, but, but they, they were always there, obviously, but I probably wasn't aware that it was that then, you know? Mm-hmm. So that's an interesting thing.
[00:47:17] But, but yeah. Yeah. Um, m-management of emotions and, yeah, un- understanding how they, how important they are, I think, in how we all behave is, is, is really key.
[00:47:26] Speaker 2: What, what do you do to help with that? Like, do, do you have a coach or a mentor? Do you read lots of books? Like, where do you get all this wisdom from, Tom?
[00:47:35] Speaker: Cycle. Uh, what? Managing emotions? Yeah. T- yeah, mostly. I think sort of... I think, yeah, honestly, uh, exercise is helpful for, uh, processing things.
[00:47:45] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. So
[00:47:45] Speaker: like, uh, you know, there's been times when, uh, things have been very front of mind and I can't, you know... I don't have them that often, but, you know, losing sleep over, over, over, um, problems or issues.
[00:47:55] But I do find I f- I... A lot better if I'm doing a lot of exercise.
[00:47:59] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I, I feel your pain there. Yeah, definitely. There's nothing like some really rigor- rigorous exercise where you haven't got any brain space to think about anything else- Yeah ... at that moment in time is, um-
[00:48:11] Speaker: But- ... is magical. But going back to, you know, the, the me- I don't have a formal mentor, but, you know, we talked about it earlier, sort of the peer, peer networks and, and, um, you know, sort of friends who are in business, you know.
[00:48:18] Talking to people like you is, well, always, always helpful. That is, that is the therapy as well.
[00:48:22] Speaker 2: It is, yeah. I do call it therapy. It is- Yeah ... it is super helpful, definitely. Mm-hmm. And what I've found is, like, whatever you're going through, someone h- else has probably gone through the same thing, and they've- So- Yeah, they've come out the other side, and it's, yeah, it's helpful, isn't it?
[00:48:36] You, you're not alone in it, whatever it is.
[00:48:39] Speaker: Yeah, that's right.
[00:48:40] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. So what is, um, the plan now, Tom? Have you got businesses that you're currently working with? Are you looking for anyone in particular or a particular stage, and where can people find you?
[00:48:53] Speaker: Um, I'll answer the last question first. Find me on, I guess LinkedIn is the easiest way nowadays, isn't it?
[00:48:59] But, um- Yeah ... no, I don't have a website or nothing like that. Um, just, you know, at the moment it's very, uh, as I said, out there talking to my network, seeing who I can help, doing a bit of mentoring. So I do have a, um, sort of formal, uh, contract signed with, uh, one company as board advisor, so that's helping them look for...
[00:49:16] Well, helping them with their strategy to grow by acquisition. Um, uh, they're called Good Culture and they, uh, so they're a B2B business that supplies some of the base, uh, ingredients for kombucha c- companies. They're a global business.
[00:49:28] Speaker 2: Oh, cool.
[00:49:29] Speaker: Very lean, great, awesome management team and founder. Um, doing really well, uh, and they're kind of, uh, basically ahead of their, ahead of their game in, in quite a niche market.
[00:49:39] Mm. Um, very, very profitable. So, so working with, just started working with those guys, helping them put together a, a strategy for how they can grow by acquisition. Um, and that's, that's a lot of fun already, so, um... But enjoying, enjoying doing that and enjoying talking to a lot of people. And, uh, since I've left Rawlings, a lot of people in my network have obviously come out and, um, reached out to me, so I'm having some great conversations, um, around that.
[00:50:03] So very happy to talk to anyone that wants to know about M&A or EOS or, or growth. Um, uh, love to have coffee with anyone who, who's up for that.
[00:50:11] Speaker 2: Love that. That's the proof of building a network again, isn't it? People reaching out to you after all that time, knowing what you're doing.
[00:50:17] Speaker: Yeah. No, it's really nice 'cause I've had some great, um...
[00:50:19] It's obviously quite emotional, um, uh, moving on and, um, had some, you know, really nice conversations with people since-
[00:50:25] Speaker 2: Mm ...
[00:50:25] Speaker: since I've announced it and, and that's leading to interesting stuff and interesting, uh, conversations. So yeah, it's, it's, it's all good.
[00:50:31] Speaker 2: Nice chapters ahead. It must feel, even though it wasn't, you know, it's not your business, you spent a lot of time in it as the, the leader of it, does it feel like, a bit like grief leaving it?
[00:50:41] You know, leaving, uh, another child behind?
[00:50:44] Speaker: A little bit, 'cause it changed so much, you know, and I was driving that change and that growth and, you know, being a shareholder and a director and yeah, so it was, it was, it, it, it was, it, it is,
[00:50:58] it will be difficult, I guess, for a while, but I know, you know, it's the right thing-
[00:51:01] Speaker 2: Mm ...
[00:51:01] Speaker: for now, and I'm kind of, I think- You know, mm, more excited about the possibilities of what's next than, than disappointed about moving on. And I'm pretty forward-looking and optimistic, so I'm sure I'll get over it. And, uh, uh, well, I think I've already got over it, but, you know, and I think the business is in a good place to- Mm
[00:51:16] to con- to thrive as well, so it's in good hands. So I, I feel, I feel more com- comfortable for that, for those reasons.
[00:51:22] Speaker 2: Well, it fits with your values, doesn't it? You've m- you made an impact. You made an impact, and you left it in a, in a better place than you found it, so that's, that's gotta be a win. That's gotta feel good.
[00:51:29] Speaker: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:51:31] Speaker 2: Amazing. So you made your, your typewriter story at the beginning made me chuckle, definitely. So you, you found a typewriter, and then you transformed the technology there, so lot, lots of change happened there. But looking ahead now with, you know, how the world looks, where do you see the biggest opportunities for businesses over the next few years, and what should they be looking at or concentrating on?
[00:51:55] Speaker: Ooh, that's a, that's a tough question. Um- I know. Well, I think there's the, there's the element which is, you know, I guess what, what's happening right now to be competitive, and then there's the underlying what always works for long-term element to this, I guess. Um, 'cause I think, you know, obviously everyone's talking about AI at the moment, and obviously- Competition due to AI, I think is gonna ramp up.
[00:52:18] It is a risk and it is an opportunity for businesses to integrate AI into, into their model. Um, and that's a challenge for a lot of traditional businesses, I think. Mm. Um, so I think, you know, obviously understanding what impact that might have on the business is, is key. But I think, um, you know, going back to what we talked about a lot in this conversation, the un- underlying element there is having the right people and having a good team.
[00:52:40] So I think, you know, you can have the best technology in the world, but if you have, you know, unmotivated, uh, te- team members that aren't interested and aren't in the right seats, then that's pointless. So I think, I think the key th- you know, some of the fundamentals around having, you know, a great team, particularly at leadership level, is, is the greatest opportunity to succeed in these changing times that are obviously gonna, you know, ch- start, you know, the pace of change is getting faster and faster, but having the right- Mm
[00:53:06] people that are working in the right, right way together is key.
[00:53:10] Speaker 2: That's such a great point, isn't it? Because there's, there's, there's lots of change, there's lots of opportunities, there's lots of new technology out there and getting, you know, magpie effect, you know, we need to be doing this, we need to be...
[00:53:19] But focusing on the fundamentals of, of things that you need to have a great business is a really good point, 'cause I, I don't think that lots of businesses are, are looking at it like that at the moment. Um, looking at the things that are broken currently that need fixing before you add on another layer of innovation.
[00:53:37] Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
[00:53:39] Speaker 2: Fantastic. Thanks, Tom. I always sign off with this question because I like to tie it back. You know me and branding, I like to tie it back to alchemy somehow. So if you had a personal alchemy formula for success, what would the one key ingredient be that wouldn't, you wouldn't want to be without, and why?
[00:54:01] Speaker: Um, well, I guess on, on our previous just point there, I think team is everything. I mean, whether, whether you're corporate or SME, uh, if you, if you don't have that right, uh, you're in trouble. So, and I've got a really good recommendation of a book for, um, have you read, uh, an- an- a The Five, Five Dysfunctions of a Team?
[00:54:16] Speaker 2: I have. Classic. Yeah. Love that
[00:54:18] Speaker: one. 'Cause it's, 'cause it's, it's a simple one as well. Um- Mm-hmm ... you know, it's e- probably read it in an hour. But I think- Things, you know, it, it distills down sometimes that feeling of why a team's working or why it's not, you know. So it's sort of, you know, absence of trust, you know, fear of conflict, accountability.
[00:54:37] You kind of go, you know, I think when you're in times when the team isn't working, you, you go through those and you go, "Yeah, not quite. We're probably 4 out of 10 there, 4 out of 10 there, 4 out of 10." When things are flying and you sort of, I just don't know why it's working so well, you can go, well, we have all that.
[00:54:48] We have ... We're not afraid to, um, challenge each other in a respectful way. We're not afraid, you know, there isn't a lack of trust here. So it's- Mm ... I think team is everything, and is, would be my slogan. And I think that, yeah, if people haven't read that, that book, it only take... It's very, very simple. Simple but not simplistic, and it's worth, worth, worth reading.
[00:55:08] Speaker 2: Definitely. I would, I would definitely agree with that. Well, you, you heard it here, people. People, focus on your people, people.
[00:55:15] Speaker: Yeah.
[00:55:15] Speaker 2: Absolutely. Thanks so much, Tom. I really appreciate your time, and good luck- Thanks,
[00:55:19] Speaker: Chris. Yeah. It's been
[00:55:20] Speaker 2: a- ... whatever happens next
[00:55:21]