Nick Reynolds

Show Notes

Intro: 
Let Me Run This By You: 12 Strange Questions (TM) version 2.0
Interview: We talk to television star Nick Reynolds about West Virginia, Marshall University, Penn State, MFAs, waiting for 10 years to star on , Search Party, Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, being an only child, and almost offending every single cast member of Law and Order SVU, and being a character actor.

Creators & Guests

Host

Gina Pulice

Co-host, Writer, Actor, Director

Host

Jen Bosworth Ramirez

Co-host, actor, writer, consultant

What is I Survived Theatre School?

We went to theatre school. We survived it, but we didn't understand it. 20 years later, we're talking to our guests about their experience of going for this highly specialized type of college at the tender age of 18. Did it all go as planned? Are we still pursuing acting? Did we get cut from the program? Did we... become famous yet?

1 (8s):
I'm

2 (9s):
Jen Bosworth from this,

1 (10s):
And I'm Gina pci.

3 (11s):
We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.

4 (15s):
20 years later, we're digging deep, talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of

3 (20s):
It all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

1 (34s):
Good luck to you. Good luck to you. I now, just the other day I was like, oh my God, I'm gonna have to do this. Not really, but in a way, all over again when I have to teach my daughter about it, and, and she's already, you really are. She's already said, you, you have to do this every single month. I'm like, yes girl. I'm, I'm so sorry for your, but just enjoy these next, you know, whatever it is gonna be five years before you have to deal with it.

2 (1m 2s):
And some kids, I mean, I think my niece got her period at 11.

1 (1m 7s):
Yeah, I know. That's heartbreaking. I was 14 and I felt like too much of a baby. I can't imagine being 11. I mean, some girls have get it at nine.

2 (1m 18s):
That is a real ous situation. So what's happening in your,

1 (1m 23s):
It's a brighter topic. It's freezing cold. I have, this is the time of year I begin to just wear my jacket all day long. But

2 (1m 29s):
When we lived, I remember my first, my mom of course, all the things she used to say, and I used to be like, shut up. But she'd be like, it's so expensive to cool and heat this big house. And I'd be like, ah, kiss my ass. Turn the heat on lady. And then when I moved into that house after they passed away and Miles and I lived there and I was like, oh, no, no, no, no. He was so right. All the things I said, I'm an asshole. We got the first heating bill. Ours heating was worse because, I don't know, our heating system. Oh my God. I was used to $50 a month bills in our two or two bedroom apartment, or even one bedroom. Right at $50 max. Right.

2 (2m 9s):
This was $400. And I, I like, I thought there was a mistake. I was like, oh no, they must have Oh, oh, no, no. Yeah. And then I was like, okay, miles. That's when I became my mother. And I was like, put on three sweaters. I don't give a fuck.

1 (2m 22s):
Wait. So just completely going on a different direction. Are you close enough to the beach in Ventura that you can go there frequently?

2 (2m 31s):
Yeah, we got, and I bought a bike, a little huffy bike at an auction. Oh yeah. We're eight blocks so we can, we can bike an ocean or, yeah, it's, there's, there's the 1 0 1 freeway is right there, so you have to go over this little bridge. But like, yeah, no, we, that was one of the things I really wanted to be, was by the ocean. Just, I feel better being by water. I feel like it's, it's a better vibe for me. Yeah. I don't feel as, I don't know, there's something about, as the great unraveling happens in this country and the world that I feel like water is, even though you can't drink the fucking ocean water, I don't know. There's something that's soothing about being by the water. Maybe it's like, if we can throw ourselves in there, if the thing gets on fire, I'll just throw, I don't know.

2 (3m 15s):
It doesn't make any sense, but it's just like a psychological need.

1 (3m 18s):
Well, water contains everything. It contains life. It contains death. It contains fun, it contains danger. You know, it's all the things,

2 (3m 26s):
You know, I have a, I I've been having an extra dog. Peaches. I don't know if you know. Yeah.

1 (3m 32s):
So

2 (3m 32s):
What's up with peach? So, peaches. Okay, so peaches. So crazy peaches. I met teacher's mom panel about art, and then we realized we both had Frenchies. And then Talia was like, oh, you should take your crazy ass frenchie to this guy because he'll help it. Help it. And he, and we did. And so they go to boarding and daycare together, and then she had to go to the East coast because she's becoming a certified intimacy coordinator for sets. And so she had to do the train. Anyway, peaches. You know what Tina, it's just like children opposite kind of dogs. Peaches is literally right here and makes no noise, sleeps with her tongue out and doesn't pee poop or throw up in the, in inside.

2 (4m 16s):
And Doris does all those things and is loud as fuck and would bark and be an asshole. So you, I guess it's like children in that you just, each child is different. Like each being is different on this planet. Like, I'm like, whoa, why did I, how did I get Doris? Why did I get a peach? And then I'm like, no, no, because Doris is teaching me fucking lessons about letting go. Not being such a fucking tight ass about having to fix, manage and control everything. And also image management. And like, people won't like me cuz my dog's an asshole. Is Peaches older than Doris though? Yeah. Yeah. Four

1 (4m 52s):
Years. That's probably, yeah. Oh, well that's a big part of it. Peaches might have been like this when she was a baby,

2 (4m 57s):
I don't know. But all I know is that is a different vibe. And it's also like super interesting to see my reaction of like, oh, well, like why didn't I get this kind of dog? And like, you know,

1 (5m 10s):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2 (5m 12s):
How did I get, you know, and then I'm like, okay, you fucking paid for the dog. Shut the fuck up. You know what I mean? Like, I have to work with myself and do some therapy and be like, listen lady, it's just a dog. She's an amazing dog, but she's a dog. Like, stop. So I can, what I'm saying is I can turn any little thing into a reason to hate myself, hate someone else, or feel sorry for myself or feel self aggrandized about something. Like anything dog care, dog.

1 (5m 43s):
And also I think, you know, even though I hate it when people say things like this, I think it is really true that, you know, Doris needed to come into the world and she needed somebody who could manage her. She needed somebody who could handle her, right? Because she's not an easy dog.

2 (5m 59s):
No.

1 (5m 60s):
You know, she wouldn't have thrived in other people's houses, right?

2 (6m 6s):
No, no. She would've been put out right into the street. And so, and Miles is real. And my, you know, miles says, it's really interesting. He needed her so badly. Like all they do is hang out during the day and she really calms him down. When I step into the picture, she becomes a Tasmanian devil, which is not shocking. Right. The whole thing is not shocking. It would just be the same with a kid. I just know it. Yeah. And so he needed her. They sleep. He, she sleeps with his, her neck and his neck. It's a real scene over there. But, but so he needed her too. And he actually is better with her than I am in some ways. And so we balance each other out. The other thing is like, it just makes me see, like, I don't know how people raise other beings without a partner.

1 (6m 52s):
Absolutely. No, absolutely. I, I, yeah. In fact, one of my kids has a friend with, you know, a single mom and it's, they're only two kids and they're older. But still, I just, I, I, now I get to witness firsthand like why certain things can't happen in their family and what that is like for the kid. And you know what it's like for the parent and Yeah, no, it's, it's right. Everybody is going

2 (7m 21s):
Oh, through something. Hey, lemme run this by you. Right? Yeah.

1 (7m 31s):
Yeah. So, okay, so last week we did the questions experiments. Oh, yes. You know, and it was great fun. I, I enjoyed it and it kinda gave me, it helps, it's helping me to hone in on my little concept here. So I'm gonna make a further refinement, which is to say, now I'm compiling a list of what I hope will eventually be at least 100 questions. And I'm gonna have whoever I'm asking them, just pick 12, like pick 12 numbers.

2 (8m 5s):
Oh, that's good.

1 (8m 6s):
I'm not up to 100. I only have 34. But could you please pick 12 numbers between

2 (8m 14s):
Right at the same time?

1 (8m 15s):
Just I'll write, I'm gonna write them down. You're just gonna call

2 (8m 18s):
The numbers. Okay. Right. 30. Okay. 34, 2 11, 17, 22 more. I'm bad at math.

1 (8m 33s):
Where are we? You need seven more?

2 (8m 35s):
Seven more. Okay. That's like when I go to pick out the donuts. I never know what the hell number I'm at. I'm like 17 Crispies. Okay. Okay. So, okay. How about 16 and 21 and 14 and 30. That's it

1 (8m 56s):
More.

2 (8m 58s):
Maybe

1 (8m 59s):
12. Too many.

2 (9m 1s):
Six.

1 (9m 2s):
Okay.

2 (9m 4s):
And 32. I already said that. Nope.

1 (9m 8s):
One

2 (9m 8s):
More. Okay. Is that it? 35? Oh, no, we don't wanna go to four 30. Four. Okay. Seven.

1 (9m 14s):
Great. Okay.

2 (9m 16s):
Okay. Okay.

1 (9m 17s):
Fantastic. I'm gonna start with number two. What was, it's a tough one. What was your most terrifying night away from home?

2 (9m 26s):
Oh, shit. Oh, sh oh, oh, shit. There's so many. Okay. Okay. It just, it seems really simple, but when I was probably eight or nine, I had a best friend Nicki and Nicki lived down the block and my mom and, and I was having a sleepover, and it was a sleepover and a school night for some weird reason, I think my mom, but my mom was always outta town and my father was not helpful. Like, we'll just do that. So I think my mom was going on some big trip. Okay. I woke up at Nick's house in the middle of the night and it, and I don't know if I had had a bad dream or something, but I looked outside and it was, it must have just been sunrise, but it looked like red, like the apocalypse.

2 (10m 12s):
And I was convinced the world was fucking ending. And I, I had, I remember saying, I have to call my mom. I can't, I gotta get outta here. It was a panic. Like, I've not felt. Wow. And I know it was related to my mom going outta town. Right. So I, I called on the phone, I knew where the phone was, and I talked to her and I remember her trying to calm me down, but also probably being really fucking mad that I called her at, in the middle, like at 4:00 AM or something. And she, but I, it's, it was terrifying in that I, I was away from, this is a common theme away from home, close to home, couldn't reach home, couldn't get home, couldn't convince my mom that there was a real problem.

2 (10m 56s):
Yeah. And I swear it was like red out. And I was like, there were, and I think it was right around the time that movie, the day after came out about the Nu Nuclear Holocaust. Like, okay. Like there was that movie in the eighties about what would happen and we weren't allowed to watch it, but my parents watched it on tele. They sent a thing home saying, don't let your kids watch this movie. It's so traumatizing. Oh,

1 (11m 16s):
I've never even heard of it

2 (11m 17s):
The day after. Yeah. I mean either. I mean, now, but then they sent this memo home, and then I know my parents were watching and I was kind of peeking, and I swear to God, it must looked like the sky looked. Yeah. And my mom was not hopeful.

1 (11m 31s):
And she went outta town

2 (11m 33s):
The

1 (11m 33s):
Worst. Yeah. The worst one, two combo. Okay. What percent battery is your phone typically at when it's around 4:00 PM

2 (11m 43s):
Oh.

1 (11m 43s):
Meaning like, do you start the day full, full, full, and then you're down to like, whatever, 65% by the late afternoon? See,

2 (11m 52s):
I say we're at 50% by the late afternoon. Okay.

1 (11m 55s):
Okay. Yeah. By the way, just so you know, teenagers think that anything above 10% is like, you're fine. You know what I mean? Like,

2 (12m 4s):
Well, I hope they don't get stuck on a mountain somewhere.

1 (12m 6s):
Right. If they start the day at, you know, 14%, they're not sweating it at all. Yeah. Yeah. That would, that just, the thought of that makes me it. Right. What's an underrated movie that you love?

2 (12m 20s):
Signs and Night Shamal signs. The sign movie signs. Yeah.

1 (12m 27s):
Is, is that underrated?

2 (12m 28s):
People fucking hate that guy. And now it maybe at the time people watch it now they think of it, it was life changing that movie for me. So science.

1 (12m 39s):
Oh, wow. Okay. Great. At what temperature do you get cold? How low does it have to be for you to feel cold?

2 (12m 45s):
Six. Like 60, indoor or outdoor? That's a great question. Indoor, outdoor. That's

1 (12m 52s):
Say outdoor.

2 (12m 54s):
Outdoor. Okay. Cold outdoor. Gotta be below 50.

1 (12m 59s):
Okay. Okay.

2 (13m 0s):
Below 50. And I'm like, oh, yo, yo.

1 (13m 3s):
Who besides yourself, would you want to be a billionaire?

2 (13m 8s):
Both A billionaire? I want someone fun that's gonna buy me things. It's not gonna be so weird about money. I see you.

1 (13m 22s):
Ooh,

2 (13m 22s):
You buy me presents. Yeah.

1 (13m 23s):
First Billy and I get, I'm presenting you presents.

2 (13m 26s):
Okay,

1 (13m 27s):
Thanks. Right Now do you have a proper, do you have a full bed with a headboard and a frame and the whole thing? Or do you just have a frame or you just have a headboard or what?

2 (13m 35s):
The whole thing. It's never made, never do I make the bed. It's a bad

1 (13m 39s):
Scene. Okay. Have you ever cried at a sports game?

2 (13m 44s):
Oh yeah. Are you nuts? Yes. I cried the, the, the, I'm trying to think of the last one. I went, oh, I cried watching UCLA football with my niece because she was so into the team and so mean to the other team, but like, so into it that I got so into it and then I cried. Yeah.

1 (14m 3s):
I love it. I love that. Yeah. When's the last time you had the hiccups?

2 (14m 13s):
That's like six years ago. I never get the hiccups.

1 (14m 16s):
You never get the hiccups. Interesting. Never. Okay. If you could select, where would you like to die?

2 (14m 24s):
Ooh. Oh, in somebody's living room that I love. Surrounded by people I love.

1 (14m 31s):
I thought you were gonna say in somebody's living room when they're like, fuck

2 (14m 36s):
No. No. Like a planned like,

1 (14m 38s):
Like a plan.

2 (14m 39s):
Somebody's living room that I love. Yeah. Yeah.

1 (14m 40s):
Like it's like a ritual and a Yeah.

2 (14m 43s):
Yes. Yes. Like,

1 (14m 44s):
So you already answered this. Do you make your bed every day? The answer is no. Oh

2 (14m 47s):
Hell. To the no.

1 (14m 49s):
Ok. Most embarrassing moment on transportation.

2 (14m 56s):
Oh, I know. Okay. I was like 20 and I, I think I just, I don't know. I was on the red line in Chicago and I thought I was so cute. This is hilarious. I thought I was so cute. I had headphones on with my disc man and a dress that was really cute. And some like combat, like work boots that it was like height of grand jury. Right. And I'm, I'm walking down the platform and my fucking laces get tied together to each other somehow. Like, and I'm strutting and they got tied. And I fall first with all my disman goes flying, my skirt goes, my dress goes up.

2 (15m 38s):
I hit my, i i, it was the most, I thought it was so fucking cute. And then I just bit it. And I, I, I'm so, and then my shoes were tied together.

1 (15m 52s):
That's great. I love that. And that reminds me, as soon as you said the red line, I was, I immediately remembered Rao's story that he told on the podcast about when he was at the train station. And this guy who'd been bullying him or something like that in college was across the thing. Sorry,

2 (16m 9s):
I bullied.

1 (16m 12s):
If you haven't listened to the episode with Rao Rao, go back that one just for the way he tells that story. And he's like,

2 (16m 18s):
Yeah,

1 (16m 19s):
It's ok man. I mean, I didn't think you really meant it. Yeah, I really didn't mean it. I've grown up now.

2 (16m 26s):
Oh,

1 (16m 26s):
Nice chat. Thanks bro. Okay. And your last question is, it's

2 (16m 31s):
Really funny, that guy, he's

1 (16m 32s):
Funny. He's

2 (16m 34s):
Funny. We supposed to like zoom and stuff. It never

1 (16m 36s):
Happened. How long? Yeah, it never happened. How much moisturizing are you doing these days?

2 (16m 40s):
It's a lot of moisture fucking rising in your

1 (16m 43s):
Whole body. Your whole queer

2 (16m 44s):
No, you know, I am so neglectful of everywhere, but my face, it's not right. So I moisturized the shit out of You got me goop. So I put, it's, there's so much stuff I do to my face in the morning. I have a green tea situation that I have this Egyptian magic oil. Then there's people buy me mo. So a lot of facial moisturizing. My other body is asy as dry as fuck

1 (17m 10s):
Challenge you. I'm gonna challenge you to give some love to the rest of your body right after you get on the shower. Just get dry enough and just, you will really feel better. Like, it does really make you starting your day. It feels much better because my thing

2 (17m 24s):
Is like, okay, I'm gonna do it.

1 (17m 25s):
I hate being in a situation where I haven't moisturized and for whatever, you know, I wear pants constantly, whatever. But for whatever reason, just enough of my ankles or the bottom of my leg is showing and I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe it.

2 (17m 39s):
I, thats like Right. So do yourself a s Okay.

1 (17m 52s):
Today on the podcast, we are talking to character actor extraordinaire, Nick Reynolds. You have seen Nick on absolutely everything. He has been on Search Party, a new favorite of mine succession, a perennial favorite of mine. Orange is the new Black. We're on order. Sbu the blacklist. I mean, you name it. He's been on it. And he is one of these journeyman actors, like a really no nonsense. Do the work, show up, be professional, you know, actor. And I, and I love that. So please enjoy our conversation with Nick Reynolds

0 (18m 30s):
In

2 (18m 31s):
Nervousness. I was just saying, that's what I think. Oh yeah. He's a little nervous. Yeah.

1 (18m 35s):
I, I speak nervous fluently.

2 (18m 38s):
Oh yeah. I speak panic attack fluently. So we're, we're in, we're in good company.

1 (18m 43s):
Okay. Well congratulations. Nick Reynolds. You survive theater school. Woo.

5 (18m 49s):
Oh. Oh God. Can't believe you guys are making me go back in time here.

2 (18m 53s):
Yeah, that's all right. Yes.

1 (18m 54s):
That's, that's what we do. That's what we do. I think you might be our first Penn State grad. Is that a conservatory or what kind of a program is it?

5 (19m 4s):
Yes, it was the, the MFA program was a conservatory style program. It's more known for its bfa for its musical theater program. It still is. But they had a ba, a bfa, and then a master's program. We were all in the same building. Wow. But yeah, ours was, was very conservatory

2 (19m 22s):
Style. Okay. That's

1 (19m 23s):
So does that mean small class size? Like

5 (19m 26s):
Yeah, I think we, I think we started out with eight.

2 (19m 28s):
Eight.

5 (19m 30s):
Holy shit. Yeah. We had eight people in our class a few years before us. They were doing a three year program and then they changed to a two year program year round. So I think at the time we did it, they were taking a class every year. Wow. At eight people. We ended up with seven. We lost one along the way. Who, who left the program? But yeah.

2 (19m 52s):
Did they have a cut system before we go back? Did you have a cut system where they cut you?

5 (19m 58s):
They had, they did have an evaluation period at the end of the first year. But if I can remember, 12 years after living in New York City, it is the, these memories get foggy and foggy. If I can remember. It was not anything terrifying. It was not. They did not want to kick us out. Oh, that's good. They definitely wanted to keep the people. That's

2 (20m 20s):
So nice. Well, okay, so let's start way, way back, way back in the time machine. So were you one of these kiddos that was like, oh, I'm gonna be famous. How was your journey? Because I also was looking at your actors access stuff and like, you've been in everything and done a lot of things, a lot of guest stars and stuff like that. So you started somewhere, where did you start?

5 (20m 42s):
I grew up in Huntington, West Virginia. Which is where the town is. Where? Where? Kentucky, Ohio, and West Virginia all meet right there on the Ohio River. Only child. So incredibly special. Like the most special little community theater actor walking around. Everybody was like, oh my God, he's got, why am I doing it in that accent? It would be in a, in a hillbilly accent. I'm sorry.

2 (21m 8s):
Please do the hillbilly.

5 (21m 9s):
You've got it. You. Oh my God. He's got it. He's got, he's got the magic. Whatever it is, keep it going. Wait, wait.

2 (21m 17s):
Of course. Wait, I thought actually when you started this, you were being, you were being silly, but you, but you really were like the town star.

5 (21m 25s):
I would not, I wouldn't say I was a town star, actually. Like, because where I'm from, it's a college town. It's where Marshall University is. There was a, a good community theater scene going on. So a lot of my buddies were doing community theater with me. There was a lot of us. But yeah, when I was younger I thought for sure I'm like, oh yeah, I'm gonna be an actor. Yeah. This is, this is just the way it goes. Cause I hated school. Oh, you did, you know, typical actor story. Okay, so, oh

2 (21m 53s):
Yeah. Wait, wait, wait, wait. So what I'm, what I'm really fascinated by already is the fact that in this town where three states, right, come together, that there's not only a thriving community theater scene. Which, you know, because when you, for me, when I think of the sort of the east and the south in that, that area, I'm like, what do these people know about theater? But you're telling me that it was like super rich theater scene. So you were a child actor there in community theater. Can you tell me what your first role ever was on stage?

5 (22m 26s):
Yes. I was an orphan in Oliver.

2 (22m 29s):
Great, great, great. First start.

5 (22m 32s):
Yeah, my mother, my mother who of course is an only child's biggest fan, loves to tell the story. Well they were gonna cast three different kids to be Oliver, but they decided to just go with one and you were gonna be one of those three. Oh, if it actually happened. That's

2 (22m 47s):
Amazing. You were gonna be one of three, but it didn't happen. She's, she truly is. She's like,

1 (22m 51s):
Also he was wait listed at Yale and

5 (22m 56s):
Yeah. Oh my god. Wait listed, wait listed from the get go.

2 (22m 60s):
My life is listed my whole life. That's

1 (23m 3s):
Your, that's the name of your memoir. Wait. Listed from the get go. I love that. Okay.

5 (23m 8s):
Don't, I don't wanna jump too far. Oh, sorry, go ahead.

1 (23m 10s):
No, no, no, you go ahead. Go ahead, go

5 (23m 12s):
Ahead. I said, speaking of that, I don't wanna jump too far ahead in the story, but my manager specifically does not tell me when I'm waitlisted because he knows, he know, right. I think there's a lot of representation that does that because we're already neurotic enough. He's like, just, just settle down. I'll tell you what

2 (23m 29s):
It's Oh, like when you're not the first choice. Yeah. When you're like the second choice. Yeah, yeah. No, nobody needs to, yeah. That's like saying to your child, well we tried and tried to have a kid and we had a kid and, and, and you came second and it was just like an act. That's how what my life was like. So there you go. Go. Nobody needs that.

1 (23m 46s):
So, but what I wanna, what I wanna know is at what point, I mean, first of all, not everybody grows up, you know, necessarily going to go to college. I didn't necessarily think I was gonna go to college. But at what point did you think you were gonna go to a college? And you definitely, I mean, I know this was your mfa, so you did something else for undergrad, but at what point did you say, this is what I'm going for?

5 (24m 9s):
Well, I like most of us, I went to Marshall cuz that's where I was from. I had gotten away from theater a little bit because I was like, no, I wanna be something else. I wanna be popular, I wanna, I wanna join a fraternity. I wanna do these things.

2 (24m 24s):
Oh, so they were not synonymous is what you're saying? Like you

5 (24m 27s):
No, there, there definitely was a, was a break. And Marshall had a BFA program and I had almost flunked out of undergrad. And I thought I would go over to, this is a story you've heard before. I know. I thought I would go over to the BFA program and take some easy classes and just build my GPA up again. And I was like, oh man, I think I belong here. I think this is the only place that has made sense so

2 (24m 51s):
Far. Okay. Why did you hate school? What was the deal? Because my father, I, I actually didn't hate school, but I, my dad was an only child who hated, who did not do well in school because probably he hated it. What was your deal? Why did you hate traditional school? What went on there?

5 (25m 9s):
I would just rather be doing what I want to do. I don't like, I don't like sitting down. I, I would, I'm not brave enough to diagnose myself with attention deficit disorder. I'm not stupid enough to do that. But I know how I feel in class. And three minutes after they start talking, I'm like,

2 (25m 28s):
Interesting. Because guess what? Guess what? My dad in later in life was diagnosed when he took him 10 years to do his dissertation. And my mom finally wrote it for him that he was diagnosed with ADHD as a 50 year old man. So it's possible. I'm just saying there are some similar, I'm noticing some similarities. I'm not gonna diagnose you either, but I Why not? I'm just gonna diagnose you. You have adhd. I have a nice day now.

5 (25m 51s):
Thank you. It's official. It's official.

2 (25m 52s):
I, anyway, so you, okay, so it was more like you just didn't, you couldn't connect like in class, you were not interested in physics 1 0 1 or whatever, like, yeah. Okay. So you started staring out the window and shit like that and thinking about,

5 (26m 4s):
And I didn't want to go to college either. I didn't want to go to college either, but I knew enough to know that like, well, I have to do something right. So maybe I'll just kick the can down the road, go to college for a little while and something will click something will make sense. And I'm a millennial, so millennials had a gun to the smaller, they're back to go to college the whole time anyway. So I was like, oh, I'll just do this.

1 (26m 26s):
Yeah. So, so here's an interesting conundrum. How, how I'm understanding you describing the ex your experience of being an only child was that you were spatial. And what I wanna know is like, that seems like a great reason to go into a performing art because you're accustomed to having people you know, really wanna pay attention to you. But then it also sounds like a difficult thing when you experience a thing that every single actor with very few exceptions experiences, which is a lot of rejection. So how have you handled that?

5 (27m 1s):
There is, I, I really don't know whether it is a mix of a religious upbringing in a small town where I, I I've just had, I've been faced with a lot of humility throughout growing up despite being an only child. Like there's a quick little story here that when I was in seventh grade, I had a freak accident happened and I had to have retinal surgery and I'm legally blind in my right eye. So this was a weird thing to happen at a point in your life where you feel indestructible, right? But suddenly I'm on the operating table. Wait, what happened? I ask the guy,

2 (27m 35s):
You can't just say you had a freak accident and you're talking to me. I need to know the, the hell happened to your eye.

5 (27m 42s):
We like country kids would get into fights just for fun, right? We would throw stuff at each other, we would climb trees, we would do all this stuff. And one day we got in a crab apple war, some kids in the neighborhood, one across the, the way we're on my side of the street and I took one in the eye. And I mean like, we've done this a hundred times, this has never happened before. But it got me good. I lost 25% of peripheral vision in my right eye. Had this surgery that was so crazy because everybody else in his office is coming in for cataract surgery and is a hundred years old. But I have this, I have a ring, I have a belt in my eye keeping the retina in place.

5 (28m 23s):
And three days after my surgery, I had to, I had too much pressure in my eyeball, right? I wasn't eating anything. So I had to go in while I was awake. They pinned my eye open and they stick a needle in my eye to let out air right freak crazy stuff. This is like grounded

2 (28m 42s):
Bullshit over here.

5 (28m 43s):
Oh my God. It absolutely, it absolutely

2 (28m 45s):
Was he grounded you it like, it? Like what did it do? How old were you, first of all? How old were you?

5 (28m 51s):
Seventh grade. So like 13. 12. 13. So it just made me, I always, I only bring that up to say that I always had a sense of reality. Even as I'm chasing this dream, I always, I knew there was rejection, I knew there was gonna be hard stuff, which kind of was the reason I followed my under undergrad professor's advice and went to grad school. I'm like, give me every single tool you can give me so that I am not jumping out into this world with nothing. You know, I knew rejection was coming, I knew reality was

2 (29m 26s):
There, so, okay. But you, okay. So you must have loved when you transferred to the BFA program as an undergrad and found out, oh, it's not just easy classes. Like what was the feeling of like, what did you feel, how did you know that this was the, the path for you?

5 (29m 43s):
Well, I remembered working with the both professors there in, before when I was in middle school, I had done the Scottish play and done lost in Yonkers with them. So I was familiar with the building, I was familiar with the, the people. Some of the other people in my community, pardon me, had gone there as well. So there was a part of me that was like, it, I mean, it just, it it felt like going back, going back home again. Right. I, I, I understood everything that was going on in there already. And first thing we did there was to Kill a Mockingbird, which was great.

2 (30m 19s):
You did that as an undergrad?

5 (30m 22s):
As an undergrad? Yeah. You played gym.

2 (30m 27s):
Is that the, of

5 (30m 28s):
Course they cast real kids and then they cast some of us as their understudies and then we got a performance as well. And I was like, that was a great way to kind of dip my toe back in and not get thrown right on stage. And

1 (30m 42s):
Yeah. But what about the journey from Marshall to Penn State? When did, at what point did you decide that you wanted, I mean, and not everybody knows and MFA is a terminal degree, you can't go any higher in the world of theater. You can teach if you have an mfa. So what, at what point did you decide you wanted to go that route?

5 (30m 59s):
Well, the, the two, my two professors there, Jack Sori and Jean Anthony, that was their thing every single day. They wanted their people to get MFAs. It was, it was not a casual suggest suggestion at all. They said it every single day. And a lot of people before me had been, I did the auditions at Art is an UP is in s e tc, I did the whole thing and Penn State wasn't even the one I wanted, to be honest. I wanted to go to ucon.

2 (31m 27s):
Ucon. Why ucon?

5 (31m 29s):
Yeah, ucon had a puppetry program as well at the time that I thought I was like, I've always been interested in that too, that I thought, oh I can get Sure. A little bit of experience there too. I really liked the interview that I had with them in New York and the Penn State interview didn't go that well because the main guy who teaches acting at Penn State wasn't even in the room for my, for my audition. So it kind of felt like, oh well they weren't really taking me seriously. This wasn't gonna happen anyway. So

2 (32m 4s):
Wait a minute, wait a minute. Okay, so do, first of all, take us back. Do you know, what did you do for your s and all the s what did you do? What monologue or what did what? I'm always so curious about what people pick for themselves.

5 (32m 17s):
This is, we're gonna have another only child moment here. I did a monologue that I wrote.

2 (32m 22s):
Oh no, that's

1 (32m 23s):
Brilliant. Beautiful. Great idea.

2 (32m 25s):
Writer. Writer is pretty boss. No, it was probably the way to go, so, okay. What, what was it about? Can you remember?

5 (32m 32s):
Oh my gosh, yes. We had written it in undergrad,

2 (32m 35s):
But if you're like it was about being an only child. No favorite thing ever. Sorry I'm being a jerk.

5 (32m 42s):
It was about a father who was coaching a little league team and they were letting girls play now and about how upset he was, but he was trying to put on a brave face for it. And it was a very, you know, sardonic, sarcastic.

2 (32m 57s):
Were you the father or the kid? Who were you? Were you the

5 (32m 60s):
Dad? I was the father. I was the father. I've always, since I got into school, I've always looked 10 years older than I am. So yeah, I was, I was doing the father role. I sang a song as well. I think I sang this was, we'd Like You years

2 (33m 15s):
Ago. I'd like you to sing it right now. Just

5 (33m 17s):
Kidding right now. Think I said something.

2 (33m 21s):
I think it's, I'm trying to, I dunno, it's I'm, I haven't slept much. Anyway. Okay, so you did a song and that and you feel like it went really poor. Like first of all, why isn't the person who's teaching acting in the audition? Are they in the, like I picture them like in the hotel or wherever the s or whatevers are, but they're just like wandering off or doing some douchey shit and not paying attention to that. What the fuck? Did you ever find out that you went there?

5 (33m 46s):
It was explained to me that this person was going to the bathroom at the time. They were there for my initial audition. You know how it's like in, in the initial audition it's the, it's the room full of people. But it was my call back, sorry, that, that this person was not there for and maybe

2 (34m 0s):
They already knew you were going there. Maybe they already knew you. They were getting, I'm looking at it a different way. Like I'm okay. You're like, no ma'am, it's

5 (34m 7s):
Possible. It's

1 (34m 8s):
Going,

5 (34m 8s):
There was somebody in the room and I did have a great time with the professor that was there. Like we got to play some Shakespeare back, some Shakespeare, excuse me, back and forth. That's another thing I did. I did Shakespeare monologue. Do you ever for the audition as well. So yeah. Is

2 (34m 23s):
It Hamlet?

5 (34m 25s):
No. Tempest fer name. Yeah,

2 (34m 28s):
I

1 (34m 28s):
Think, oh good. Good

2 (34m 29s):
Choice. That was a great choice for you. It's a choice for you.

1 (34m 32s):
So one of the things that we talk about a lot on the show, speaking of, you know, making a good choice for yourself is at what point or whether people discover if they didn't know already before they go into a program, what their type is and how people are gonna view them and how to sell themselves. And it's a two part question, which is, did that happen to you? What was that about? But also like, was it a surprise in any way how people, how people were reflecting you back to yourself?

5 (35m 4s):
It was a little bit in undergrad, right? Because if you're the big fish in a little pond in undergrad, you get to play absolutely everything under the sun, which, which everybody does. And I even then getting back to, you know, how, how I viewed the world, I was like, I'm never doing this again. I'm never gonna be Andrew and I hate Hamlet again. I'm never gonna, like I I, so I knew going in definitely to grad school, I'd always heard, well grad school, that's when they really start to type you out, especially in programs, right? That's, that's what we thought, thought anyway that we on and we want some, we want some character people and, and we need to really mix it up so we don't have a bunch of the same type.

5 (35m 46s):
And I knew I was a character guy, I knew it, I knew it. And I thought early on too, for film and television, I thought it's gonna take me a while because I look older. That's another thing people kept saying to me. Speaking of, you know what, what got reflected back? So many people said it's gonna take you up cuz you look older and they, they don't need,

2 (36m 5s):
Did you, what was your response to that internally? Did you were like, yeah, I agree or were you like, fuck you.

5 (36m 11s):
No, I did agree because, because I thought, you know, like we've got a receding hairline, we've got bags under the eyes. I got like stuff that I knew about myself that I thought, well good, then it, it almost took the pressure off. It almost made it seem like don't go to the city and feel like if you haven't done it in a year, you failed and it's time to quit. Like no, you give yourself a nice long leash, a nice long length of rope and, and stick it out dude. You know? Wow, that's you a really great

2 (36m 38s):
Thing. I wish someone like, I'm just trying to think of like if someone said that to me, I don't think I would've been in a place to really accept it. And also I think, you know, women sometimes it gets all fucked up with like body and sex with men too. Sexuality. Absolutely. But who's sexy and who's not. But, but I wish that I had done that because I think I might have stuck it out cuz people did say that to me. Like, well you're gonna be a badass at 40. But the problem is I didn't, I gave up before that a little bit internally. So I wish that I had had given myself a longer leash in terms of like, do you have fun? And like, you might as well have fun waited out. But I just didn't trust that that was actually gonna happen.

2 (37m 19s):
I, I thought they were just saying that shit to be nice.

5 (37m 23s):
I also acknowledge the confidence and privilege of being me in this situation too, that like, I just thought it was funny like when people would say things like, I'll, we can talk about that later too. Some of the breakdowns that I get in the TV world are humbling as shit. Oh sure, I'm

1 (37m 41s):
Sure.

5 (37m 42s):
And I'm like, whatever catch check,

1 (37m 45s):
Let's go. They need somebody, they need somebody to fill that role. Writers write those roles and they need somebody to fill it. So I have a question for both of you actually. Just like a little bit of a thought experiment, which is let's imagine day one of your program. You know, I like, it's almost like a line at St. Peter's gate, you know, like you're going through and they're going, this is your type, this is your type, this is your type, this is your type. Some people that we've had on here have sort of expressed a wish to have known this earlier. I might even count myself in those ranks. Like maybe if somebody had just told me this is who you are, whether I felt that was right or wrong, I probably would've accepted that and then just kind of gone in a direction.

1 (38m 26s):
But because I didn't have that experience, I didn't know what direction to go in and I also gave up. So like what do you guys think? What if they pulled you aside day one and

2 (38m 35s):
Said, just go in this direction, this is your direction. Would that have been helpful or hurtful? Oh, that's a great question. I think it, I think Gina, because I'm someone that just needed, I don't know if it would've worked out, but if, because I need rules structure and compartments and like containers in my emotional life, I think it would've helped me if they said, listen, you're the funny neighbor. Think Mrs. Poole or Mrs. Poole from what you call it, from Ferris Bueller's day off the secretary or whatever. Think that go in that direction. I might have just embraced it and been fine and then realized I could do other things.

2 (39m 18s):
I think I had nothing, I had nothing to hold onto in terms of who I thought I was. Who they, yeah, I was grasping at straws. So I think it would've helped me. What about you? Yeah,

5 (39m 30s):
I, no, I think so too and I was definitely looking for, especially once I got to grad school, I was looking for a mentor. I was looking for somebody to look at me and say, I know what you are. This is how we get there. I that, that's really, really what I wanted. I would say more so than even walking into something and going, I want a process. I want to be a part of this thing. I think more than anything I want somebody to go, you come here and, and let's, let's go over here. Let's sit down and figure out how you become this thing.

2 (40m 0s):
Yes, I think that's

5 (40m 2s):
Really

2 (40m 2s):
Great. I would've loved that. But I guess, I guess it kind of goes against like the whole idea of like school or like a prospect. It does, but it's absolutely like image something. But it would've helped to have a mentor say, Hey, I got you, I understand you. And there I think there were people like that for me along the way. I just, by that point I like was so closed down, I didn't listen to them. What if they said to you like, we think this is your type, we think you're a Mrs Pool type, but you're here at college and you may surprise us. Yeah. Maybe you're gonna go to, but like, just know. In other words, what if it was something like this is the middle point that you can always tack back to. Yes. You know, if you really hate this suggestion about who you are, prove me wrong.

2 (40m 44s):
I'm, I'm open to that too. But you know, maybe this is where when you feel like you're stuck and you don't know where to go next, maybe this is the center that you can come back to. I think I like that. And I also am thinking like, it's so fucked up because they say things like people, meaning teachers casting. Well say things like, cuz I've been been on the other side of the casting, whatever. And, and they say things like they, they're she or he or they are always doing that thing. Like that's their thing they do. And like, it's so boring, but then they end up casting them right in that thing. Yeah. So I'm like, wait a second, you're asking for two different things here. You're wanting us to be super process oriented and like in the moment, but also you just want us to be the thing we are so that you can cast us.

2 (41m 28s):
And then the process is easier for everybody involved. So it's like a very, it's a hard bind to be in. You're like, dude, what do you want? Do you want fucking every like the, the the the spontaneous firecracker? Or do you want the fucking Mrs pool every goddamn time? Because just tell me. So it's interesting. I feel like there's mixed messages that are given in, in Hollywood and in in theater as well. It's like, anyway, that's just a tangent.

5 (41m 52s):
It's also a, it's also a world that's changing, isn't it? Because like when we were doing it, we were obsessed with type, what is my type, where do I fit what pile? And I'm, I'm actually teaching a class at York College every other spring right now on auditioning for the Cameron Professional Prep. And it's kind of, it's kind of weird to talk to the younger generation and talk about type cuz they're like, what do you mean I don't go in a box, I, I get to do, I get to do other things. We're we're breaking down these walls, we're breaking down these boxes. So it's weird. It's, it's a change. It's a shift that's going on right now, but that is how my mind still

1 (42m 30s):
Sure. Well no, that makes perfect sense.

2 (42m 33s):
Wow. Sorry, I took us on a tangent there. We can get back.

1 (42m 36s):
So since you No, that's okay. But since you mentioned breakdowns, I really, I think that would be so great for people to hear about. Obviously people who went to theater school know what, what you're talking about. But for people who did it, you know, you get this thing, this description of the character that you're gonna be auditioning for and you know, sometimes the breakdowns reveal things that you realize people think about you just to look at you. So tell us about your experience with breakdowns.

5 (43m 3s):
Oh man, they are the best because I, I love, I love one that really doesn't have much information at all. One that kind of lets me just, just play. But so many of them and less and less these days would say things to me. I wrote some of them down. I got schlubby

2 (43m 22s):
A lot. Wait, wait, wait. I schlubby.

5 (43m 24s):
Yeah, like a, like a, an unkempt slob, right? Looking man, schlub, when I first started getting auditions, I was in my early thirties, but all the men were forties to fifties. Sure. That's what it, that's what it said to me. I was like, okay, great, great, great, great. Just to gloss right on past that. And my favorite one that I ever got called in for, described in my character as balding but hip.

1 (43m 50s):
Okay. Which is great.

5 (43m 53s):
Which is great. Yeah, he's losing his hair, but he can hang, don't

2 (43m 57s):
Worry. That's amazing. I kind of like that. I like that. Even though it's so on some levels it's like, oh, cause they can't

1 (44m 3s):
Be right. Like the assumption is like as soon as you're bald, do you, there you are an old, you know, you have zero hip factor zero,

2 (44m 10s):
You might as well just like then

1 (44m 12s):
How do you, do you, how, how, let's see here. How do you go in the direction of that when they've given you a specific thing, but bring yourself to it too. I mean, you aren't 50 or 40 or maybe you are now, but at the time you weren't. So like,

2 (44m 31s):
I, I guess maybe it's a difficult question to answer, but how do you make it your own? How do you say, well, I'm not 40 or 50, but here's what is in me that I could bring to this that might translate to be 40 or

5 (44m 44s):
50. Well, yeah, you're, you're you're saying it right. Like there, there was, I, I was really lucky at the end of my grad program, I got to go up to Toronto and do two weeks of study with David Rotenberg at the Professional Actors Lab. And we talked a lot about that. And one of the things, one of the empowering things he said to us, which, which we all know at this point is not only be the solution to their problem, but like, they don't know. They don't know nobody, nobody in the casting world as far as I've ever seen, has this particular idea in their head and their minds cannot be changed. So I've always, I've always known that as an actor and, and bought into that.

5 (45m 24s):
Yeah. That like, although, although it's not my mission, I'm not gonna, I'm gonna change your mind. I'm just gonna take the permission that you've given me. I'm gonna take this and you know, this is what I can give you of this character. And maybe you're not obsessed with him being 50 years old. Maybe there's something else I can do, but I just buy in 100% to it. And even though that stuff that I was talking about like affects me on a personal level, sure. I'm like, oh my God, they think I'm a grandpa. I'm like, no, no, no, I know, I know what's going on here. If I do the right thing, if you see something in me, then I get it. That's how this works. So that stuff never, you

2 (46m 4s):
Said something really important, which is in order to be in this field and be an actor getting breakdowns and all this shit, you really have to, I really have to buy into the fact that I've wanted in the room that they picked me for a reason.

5 (46m 23s):
Absolutely.

2 (46m 24s):
And from the, from the jump. So my agent submitted me knowing I could do it, the casting looked at it and said, yeah, bring her in. She could do it. Then it's, and then if you get a call back, they really think you could do it. But I think that you have to have enough self-esteem to believe from the jump that you belong in the room or you fucking, it's a real uphill battle to even get the job. Right.

5 (46m 48s):
Let me say the most pandering thing I could possibly say on this podcast, podcast, I believe casting directors know what they're doing. I do. I buy into this.

2 (46m 59s):
And, and your agent, it's like they're not, you're not gonna like, it's a trust. It's a trust. But the only way, I'm just realizing this now, like the only way you can do that is if you trust yourself on some level, right? If you say like, I can do this. And so most of us that I know, at least from my generation, got into this business not trusting themselves at all. Like no trust at all. So then you're like, of course you're not gonna believe that you're right for an UE or a sexy babe if you're look a certain way. It's just, it's just so interesting that this is a career built on constantly having to reaffirm that you belong in spaces and it's really hard to do when you already feel fucked up.

2 (47m 41s):
Right? So it makes perfect sense that why like, it took me whatever, 20 years to come back to this business because now I'm like, no, I fucking belong to be here because I live through all this shit. Get outta my way, but I still,

5 (47m 53s):
And there's a oh

2 (47m 54s):
Go. No, no, but I still, it's still a thing. It's a thing.

5 (47m 58s):
110%. There's, there's also a part of that that I bought into very early on, which is when whenever I do this I tell myself I am auditioning for the casting director, not the role. So once, once I started, once I believed that and knew that in my soul, then I, then I go, well for starters, this isn't the end of my career. I don't, I don't need this role more than anything in the world. And I go, the pressure is off me to fit correct what I think they want. I'm like, no, no, no. Do a good job. Right. It'll be right.

2 (48m 32s):
Right.

1 (48m 34s):
My

2 (48m 34s):
Young friend who's, I mean, he's probably your age, but he's younger than me, Mickey, oh Sullivan said, we're booking the room, we're not booking the job, you're booking the room, you're making fans of your work. And I was like, oh shit, why did I take me this? Oh shit. And I see now that I go into, I may not book the shit, it doesn't matter, but I bet she, what? She's calling me in for something else the next day. I, I've seen it happen. So I've seen evidence of that. And so I truly believe that. So I guess, yeah, sorry Gina, you, I think you were gonna say something.

1 (49m 3s):
Oh yeah. Well I, I was gonna say is I, I, one thing I, if I was teaching theater school, I might tell people who are, get people like myself who get upset with their own casting is, you know, next time you're watching a film where somebody's the character actor and they're playing whatever, somebody who looks like a goin go, go look at their actual photograph. I bet you nine times outta 10 they have a gorgeous headshot. And it's actually a really big compliment that they thought you could do this. That they thought, because you know, I mean this might sound like sour grapes, but to play the is like not that fun or interesting, right? It's not, it's ultimately not the thing you actually probably went to, into this field right.

1 (49m 46s):
To

2 (49m 46s):
Do. And I think that they goes back to my, like, my whole thing about the anti mame experience that I had. So in high school, my friend at the time, stunning thin, was cast as anti mame and I really wanted the role, but also I said ORs DeVos in the audition instead of hor deu. Anyway, I just remember that. So, but she knew how to say a choice. She knew how to say hors dv. So anyway, she was cast as anti Mame and I was cast as Agne Gooch. And I, I thought this was a horrible thing and that it meant that I had failed. And halfway through the rehearsal process, our, our jerky whatever teacher was like, thank God for Agnes Gooch in this, in this play. I was like, wait, what?

2 (50m 26s):
It, I, I was like, wait, you're telling me I'm not good enough in some way, or not thin enough or pretty enough whatever play, but you're also saying I'm saving the goddamn play. So like there, there's gotta be something in that. So I paid attention to that. Cause I was like, wait, he can say all the things about how beautiful she is, but I'm actually doing the thing that's saving the goddamn show. So that's where Ryan Love of character actors really began was in like thinking like, oh wait, they kind of saved the show. Especially the funny people like, oh, okay, pay attention to that. So anyway, back back to, back to your experience of like, you're, now you pick Penn, why, so you didn't, did you not get into UConn or you were just like, fuck it, I'm going to Penn.

5 (51m 8s):
If I remember correctly, I did not get an offer from UConn and there were a couple other offers I did have on the table and I didn't want them. I just thought like, I don't necessarily wanna go to these places. And, and looking back, part of it was probably they were too far away from home and I had never been away from home. So I, I know there was a part of me that didn't want to go really, really far. And then I had finally turned this one program down for sure. The the, the person gave me one last chance to say yes. And I was like, I'm, I'm sorry. I'm gonna bet on myself here and and say no. And Penn State called that day and I had missed the, the campus visit for Penn State.

5 (51m 51s):
Like, I don't know how far down on the list I was and how many people said no, but it got to me and I later found out that I was so far down on the list because the guy wasn't in the room for me and like couldn't say yes or no about me. Like there, there wasn't a vote to be happy.

2 (52m 7s):
Am I getting it worked out? You said no to ucon or, or whatever the place is, not even knowing if Penn said yes to you. So you just said, oh my gosh, you didn't take the option that was, that you thought was left even though

5 (52m 24s):
I didn't No, no, you're right. I didn't, I didn't like what they were offering and I know this like some people are not in this position, but I was lucky enough to like not feel like I had to do it or else. Right. I felt a lot of people were saying, if you remember back in undergrad, people were like, well take a year, take two years and then go to grad school. A lot of people don't go to grad school, fresh outta undergrad. Right. So I gave myself that permission. Right. I was like, I'm not gonna force myself to get into this situation. I also don't think there were three things we were supposed to look for in a program. You're supposed to pay you, you're supposed to get a showcase out of it, and you're supposed to get your equity card if you want it at the end. Wait

2 (53m 3s):
A minute. They pay you, they pay you to go to grad school.

5 (53m 6s):
Penn State was totally paid for.

2 (53m 9s):
What the fuck? That's amazing. Yeah. Is that how all

5 (53m 12s):
Grad schools, that's incredibly lucky.

2 (53m 13s):
Programs are

5 (53m 16s):
No, I don't think

2 (53m 16s):
Necessarily.

5 (53m 17s):
No, certainly. No. A lot of them are not, a lot of them are partial. What I hear, a lot of them are partial. And then we still worked, like we had, we had jobs on campus as well that would pay us a little bit extra on top of that. And so

2 (53m 29s):
Penn State calls you? Yeah. They call you? Or how did you find out?

5 (53m 33s):
Yeah, the, one of the professors called me, the head of the theater program, called me and was like, are you, have you chosen any schools yet? And was like, no. They were like, they're like, they're like, would you like to come to, and before they even told me what the offer was before they even said the whole program, I was like, yes. Yes, absolutely. And that's how I accept all my roles, by the way. Like, my manager calls me and he is like, they're offering you that. Take it. Yes, please. He's like, well, do you wanna talk about money or anything like that? No, no, no. Yes, yes.

2 (54m 2s):
Can I tell you something?

5 (54m 3s):
We'll figure that out

2 (54m 4s):
Later. It's call a calling of, I love those phone calls. Like, I feel like calls are so, in any field are so rare where you get the thing that you fucking want, or like that you didn't. Yeah. I, I, I had, I've only had one of those calls that to this date that I felt like, oh, like, this is life. I'm living as an artist. And that was the day I got a, I got a call, this was in 1998 where the head of Stephan Wolf called me the head of casting. And Stephan Wolf called me and said, we want you to be the lead in our show. And I was like, amazing. And then literally 10 minutes later, 10 minutes later, my agent calls and says, you just booked a recurring role on, on early edition.

2 (54m 49s):
And I thought my whole life has been made now. Oh shit. No work on myself, myself. And I was a, I was a really a wreck, but I was like, I, my apartment in Chicago going, I'm like, this is it. Like this is how Annette bedding starts. Like this is how, just so interesting how things don't always go as we fucking plan. Like they, they're good in good ways, weird ways, sideways. But I really thought, oh, this is, and I knew this is never gonna probably happen to me again. But anyway. Okay. So you

5 (55m 18s):
Get this, one of my undergrad professors did tell me early on, celebrate the victories. Yeah. And I heard that.

2 (55m 26s):
I

5 (55m 26s):
Really, I know as an actor, we're always looking for what's next and we're always questioning ourselves in this. It's just a bunch of rejection. But I try so hard to celebrate those victories and yeah. There's no way to describe that call. I have a son that's the best thing in the world, you know, he's, he's the greatest thing in the world. But I maybe right after that is that call. Yeah. Were

2 (55m 44s):
You like For sure. Definitely. If they want us right guys. It's, they want us. Me, they want me. Yeah. Okay. Nick, you have had a bunch of roles on a bunch of different television shows. Boz introduced me to this term that I didn't know before. What is it You're an under 10? Oh, I'm an under 10. Like, I'm a, I'm an under 10, so I usually, but you know, so you've got, you've done guest stars, but you've also done a bunch of under tens, right? You've done both. Yeah. And what sounds difficult to me about that is just when anytime you're on set for a day or a week or whatever it is, like a short period of time. Not the whole time, you know, I've

1 (56m 23s):
Heard heard people say, oh, it's so awkward and everybody really knows each other. And sometimes they're really like standoffish and sometimes they're very welcoming. It really very set to set what's your, like, go-to strategy when you're gonna be on set for a really short period of time to get the work done, but also not feel maybe alone.

5 (56m 42s):
I mean, man, that's a great question. It's so nice to hear. Yes, it is. That's a great question. And I'm so glad to hear other people say that. No, it's, it's so nice to hear that that's other people's experiences too. Because I take, I, I I, the prep I put in is first and foremost, right? Like, I will not show up unprepared at all. I do everything in the world to tell myself, act like you've been there before. You know, I, I understand what a co-star, like co-star is another term for under 10. I, I understand what the job is. You know, you are plugged in, you keep it going. You, you match the world. You, you do your job.

5 (57m 23s):
And don't ever make anybody stop and go, but you all right? Like, no, no, no. We like, do your job. Make friends, make friends if you can. And, and be, be a professional that way. Right. I like, I tell myself, and, and again, it's what you guys have talked about on the podcast before. I know I belong here. I tell myself I belong here. I made this. I'm, I'm the one, I'm here. And the funny thing about that is that the first job I ever got, the second job I ever got on a show called the Nick. Oh, I had memorized this. Yeah. I was gonna be on a gurney getting taped up and I had a paragraph to memorize. Right.

2 (58m 2s):
I've already getting

5 (58m 4s):
Yeah. You know, you know, it's about to happen. I had like a month to memorize this thing. Normally the turnovers much quicker. Oh yeah. I had like a month. So I showed up and I'm there, I'm on the, I'm on the gurney. They're like, right, we're gonna rehearse in one minute. And the writer comes over and he says, so we rewrote what you're gonna say. Here's the new, here's the new lines.

2 (58m 23s):
This is when I hit my pants. Friends, I'm the gurney who cares? Shit. Your pants. Shit your pants.

5 (58m 28s):
Absolutely. I, I'm like, set me up for success. Another thing you guys have talked about before, set me up for success,

2 (58m 34s):
Please. Right. That's actually not okay. That is not okay when they do that. In fact, ugh, it's gross, but okay.

5 (58m 41s):
Yeah. But I did, I did get it done. They did give a little more time to, and this was the script supervisor was like a, the, the person they were, they wanted it to the, to the syllable. So we got through it. But I'm like, you know what, in those moments, like that's when I need all my training and all my confidence and all. Dude,

2 (59m 1s):
That's, this is a hard fucking job. I don't care what anybody says because let me tell you something. I'm, I'm I you Yeah. What, who goes into the surgeon and says, okay, by the way, you're not actually doing an ankle today. You're actually gonna do a shoulder in five minutes. That surgeon would say, okay, go fuck yourself and I'm gonna go and be, sit in my Tesla and chill out. You find someone that does ankles cause I, or exactly whatever it is. But you

5 (59m 28s):
Roll with it. And I have, I probably, sorry, I I, I have probably at times been guilty of being too closed off on sets too. Like I, I got to do Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt. Yeah. And I wouldn't talk to Tina Faye. I was like, Nope, I'm not doing it. I'm gonna stay over here in my lane. I'm gonna stay in my chair. Like I do not need to be. Cuz we've all seen the guy that walks around and thinks he's everybody's friend and really thinks like, this is how, you know. And I'm like, oh, I will not be that dude. Absolutely not. But I think I've found a good mix of, of being my, my jovial self and being a professional, you

2 (1h 0m 9s):
Know, it takes, it's just, part of it is also practice, right? Like the more, and I always, I always discount practice, but it's really important, like to do the thing. Well you have to practice and really the only practice you get, and you can take classes about how it's, but you have to be on sets and you have to be put in situations where, where things are uncomfortable and see how you do. And it, and because I think I, it looks like magic to me. Like when I'm on set and I'm watching someone do something. And so when last time I was on set, like a big set, I Jimmy Simpson, who I don't know if went to acting school, but we should have him on anyway, Jimmy Simpson, who's Westworld everything, he's done a million things.

2 (1h 0m 50s):
And I'm scene with him and I'm watching him and I'm like, he's fucking magic. How is this? And I'm like, panicking over 10 lines over here, right? And I'm panicking and he finally comes over and he makes it look so easy. He's so smooth. And I'm like, holy fuck. So I say to him, Jimmy, you're a star. How do you do this? Like, I'm watching you mesmerized. He goes, Jen, I don't even know I knew my name. He said, you know, I've been doing this for 20 years and I, this is my first regular role on a series. And I was always a co-star for years that a guest star. He's like, I've had fucking years of practicing. You'll get there you is this what you're, and I'm like, yeah, I haven't done many of these, you know?

2 (1h 1m 31s):
And he's like, dude, it's practice. And I was like, and he said it really lovingly, but he was like trying to pull down the curtain and say, listen, it's not actually like I have talent, but it's not magic. What it is is fucking work and practice. And being in a position where he could practice his craft on a set every day because he kept working. And so I was like, oh, like a lot of it is fucking practice. It's not magic. So I

5 (1h 1m 55s):
Feel like, yeah, that's unbelievable. I've never heard somebody say that before. And that is, so

2 (1h 1m 60s):
He goes, I've been a guest star for 15 years, Jen. So like, I've been doing this. And I was like, oh shit. Yeah. So it's

1 (1h 2m 7s):
Like, yeah, he's been preparing for the whole 15 years to have a job like this. Well, I, I'm feeling in an anecdotal mood and you've been on some amazing television shows. Could you share, could you with us

2 (1h 2m 19s):
Like a great story on a television scene? Yeah, I love that.

5 (1h 2m 24s):
Yeah. A absolutely this one, I, I hope this is not too cringeworthy, but this one just comes from svu,

2 (1h 2m 31s):
The, the cringe. Oh yeah. I a good, a good SVU marathon. Believe you me,

5 (1h 2m 38s):
I, oh man. It was, it was, you know, you're a New York actor, you're not a New York actor until you're on law order. We all know this. It had taken me a while and it was the same people that had just cast me an FBI a few months earlier. So I was like double up. I was feeling good. We, we got cast turnover was fast going in for the covid test. First day of filming. I'm not actually filming anything, but I am in Chelsea Pierce to do at Chelsea Pi rather to do some photos. I'm gonna do a family photo and a morgue shot, spoiler alert. And they're gonna do the readthrough. That day I was like, oh my God, I get to do a table read. This is, this is amazing.

5 (1h 3m 18s):
It's gonna be virtual, okay, as is fine, virtual, whatever. So I am at 11 o'clock, I go in to start my dead guy makeup and I have my shirt off, right? So it's dead guy stuff here all over my chest. I'm

2 (1h 3m 31s):
Already getting nervous. I'm already nervous. Yeah.

5 (1h 3m 34s):
Then they, they stop, pause for lunch. They're like, okay, go in your dressing room. We'll bring you the food. You can do the read through, but don't cover up. Okay cuz we don't wanna smear the makeup. I'm like, yeah, that's fine. So I'm in my little dressing room with my camera. I'm like this close to the camera trying to do, trying to do the read through. Oh my gosh. Meris is on there. Ice tea's on there, everybody's on there. Hello. Hello. Great to be back. Great to be back. New Showrun. This is great. Right. Let's, let's do our read through. I'm the first guy that speaks. We're going, we're going, I'm like this. I get cut off about a minute into the read through and I'm like, Hmm, I don't know what's going on trying to figure this out. I get a text from my manager, casting says, you're not wearing a shirt, would you put a shirt on please?

5 (1h 4m 15s):
I was like, I was like, no, no, no, no. I'm like, please look, look, look. Hair and makeup told me not to wear shirt. Yeah dude. I am not a pervert. I am not.

2 (1h 4m 25s):
Oh dude, they set you up person. Oh shit. Yeah. Okay. So how did it, did they explain it? Did they explain

5 (1h 4m 31s):
It? He did. They explained it around. Everybody had a nice laugh, including casting. And I was like, look, laugh all you want, just know, just know the story please. And then the one who's playing my wife was not on the read through, but the next day I was trying to explain to her what happened. And she's like, oh yeah, I just did a scene with Maka. And she said, yeah, I got a funny story about your husband.

2 (1h 4m 55s):
Oh my God. Oh, that's hilarious now because in that movie you freaking out. You're freaking, you're just doing what you're told. And yet that doing what you're told is gonna get you fucking fired. Ah,

5 (1h 5m 5s):
Exactly. I almost threw up, I was still trying to eat a little bit and I almost threw up what I was eating cuz I was like, I've waited almost 10 years to be on this show and now I'm gonna be the weirdo from Queens who doesn't think he has to wear a shirt. Well also

2 (1h 5m 21s):
Don't

5 (1h 5m 22s):
Wanna,

2 (1h 5m 22s):
You don't wanna be like at the beginning of the read through like, hi guys, I don't have my shirt on. But that's cuz they told me not to wear my shirt. So like, I just wanna say like that's, you don't wanna be that person either where you're like over explaining, you think they've seen this shit before, that someone's a dead person and they need to, but no, there's a first time for everything. Well, at least you weren't in the fucking, can you imagine if you went to the actual, if it was an in-person readthrough and you show up with no shirt on, you're like, Hey, yeah,

5 (1h 5m 47s):
That would've been, oh my God,

1 (1h 5m 49s):
What is, so, you know, I, I've only been on sets with, with my son, but what is always very surprising to me is at once it seems everybody knows, like, it took me a long time to figure out that they were all talking to each other and they could hear each other from far, you know, through their earpieces. That took me such a long time to figure out. And then when I figured out, I realized like, oh, everybody knows everything because they're, you know, they're constantly, but then there's situations like this where if it's just this, these two little factions that aren't talking to each other, then they don't know everything. So no, you're like, I don't wanna ask a question because everybody here seems to know everything. But then when you don't, it can sometimes bite you.

1 (1h 6m 29s):
It must be hard to know when to, you know when to do which thing. Right.

5 (1h 6m 34s):
Oh my God. Yeah. And, and that's, that's, that's the control how you have no control over anything. And in this particular situation, I was like, I was not going to rest until every single person knew that, that that was a mix up. Because this is the type of stuff, like this casting office has a lot of stuff. I don't need to be Nick the per, you know, no thank you. I'd like to stay in the good pile. God.

2 (1h 6m 57s):
Oh my God. And it's like such a thing of like, you know what it, it just triggers my, like, you're trying to do the right thing and follow every rule and yet that might cost you your job. And you're, you're like, oh hell to the no, hell to the no. I'd be like on that chat. Like, listen motherfuckers, I tried to, no. And then I'd be like, oh, I can't do that. So you, but listen, it worked out. You filmed, how did, how did the filming go?

5 (1h 7m 23s):
The filming went really well. It was three different days for me. I got to go. Do you know about the famous New York subway where they film everything?

2 (1h 7m 31s):
Oh,

5 (1h 7m 32s):
There's a subway down on the, on the skirts of Chinatown. That's, it's a stop that they skip now. But basically anytime you see a subway scene in New York City, this is the place that they do it. One side's painted red, the other side's blue. They just go back and forth in the tunnel. We spent the day down there and you know, it's a finally oiled machine at this point. Right. My joke when I was telling people about it was that, please, if you guys have a moment, watch this show because I'm afraid if we don't get enough views, it's just, it's not gonna make it. So

2 (1h 8m 6s):
Yeah, they're really in danger. And Kyle, you know what? Interesting, like Dick Wolf was in Chicago before I moved to la I tallied, I auditioned for the Dick Wolf shows and I still get them even in LA and I do them and I still haven't booked it. I've auditioned for Dick Wolf Productions 22 times in and never booked a thing. There's always a first time. You never know. I That's right. Lucky, lucky number. Yeah.

5 (1h 8m 32s):
I was heading down that road myself. Yeah.

2 (1h 8m 33s):
But you know what, I was heading down. I just love that these stories because I also feel like it just, hopefully it gives people, and maybe people just getting into the business know to know that like even veterans, even veterans of all kinds like, like 10 year veterans, 20 year veterans have these stories where they're like, I am so fired. I am so fucked. Or you realize like, oh, this guy is telling me, oh, oh, he's telling me that it's not magic that it's practice. Okay. And then you get in your tool bag, all these things. So then hopefully if you stick it out and you're like the veteran, veteran veteran, you can pass it on to other actors. And I feel like that's what we try to do a lot with this, with this podcast is like say like, Hey guys, like there are some things that are a mystery, but let's get behind the scenes and really look at the shit that goes down so that you don't feel like theater school's a total mystery.

2 (1h 9m 25s):
And then the business is a total mystery. And I just like put that together now. Thank you very much.

5 (1h 9m 30s):
That's amazing. That's, that's why when I first moved here, I did a couple times of background work and I knew, I was like, I gave myself three times, I said, you can do it three times to see how the sausage gets made. That's it. You are not, it is not your way. No one's gonna look around the crowd and go you. That doesn't happen. So yeah, that was the, that was the permission I gave myself because yeah, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta know. Yeah. If people don't tell you, the people that, that teach you in your school, God bless them, have been outta the game for 30 years. They don't, you know. So.

2 (1h 10m 8s):
Well

1 (1h 10m 9s):
That's a perfect segue to, you had mentioned earlier three things. You definitely have to get out of a program and one of 'em was showcase. So can you, you tell us about your showcase

2 (1h 10m 18s):
Experience?

5 (1h 10m 20s):
Oof. It was rough y'all because we did it in New York. We did it in conjunction with the BFAs.

2 (1h 10m 26s):
I love a good showcase story. Okay.

5 (1h 10m 30s):
No, it was, I think we did find, but they were all there to see at BFAs. They weren't there for us. I was the only person in my, this is not me telling tales, this is a fact. I was the only person in my grad class that did not get any interest from an agent after the showcase. So once I got to New York, I, you know, I pounded the pavement and sent out head shots and did everything that I could. And I just think at that point in time, I, I looked kind of just like all the other character guys. I don't think there was anything to say we can, we can have room for this guy on our roster. You know, I look, looking back, that's how I justify it anyway.

5 (1h 11m 12s):
I did a very, very similar thing.

2 (1h 11m 14s):
Okay. So how did you get an agent?

5 (1h 11m 17s):
I got an agent through, the first one I got was a professor at Penn State. Had a friend of a friend in the city and hooked me up with them. I went through two agents early on who just weren't good fits. They were very much, they had two, a lot of people on the roster and I just, I couldn't find my way. And then I got the manager I have now, who's the, the only reason I'm here talking to you today by doing a show in Connecticut. I did South Pacific up there and one of the guys in the show with me was like, so who's your agent? I was like, I don't have one. He was like, that's ridiculous. Please meet my person. An actor doing a kind deed for another actor.

5 (1h 11m 57s):
Maybe the rarest thing I've, I've talked about today. No,

2 (1h 12m 0s):
It's not, it's not, it's not, it's getting better. Like I've gotten a bunch of my students agents and stuff like that. But you're right. It's not the first thing you think of. But I'm glad So you met their manager or their they're

5 (1h 12m 13s):
I did, I, I met him and like, lucky enough they did not put me through the ringer at the beginning. They were like, yeah, come on and let's see what we can do. And I booked a couple things in that first year and it's, it's just been a great fit. Like yeah,

1 (1h 12m 29s):
I love that because so many people don't have that, you know, so many people and what I, and maybe it's also like, especially young people, you're just so happy that somebody wants to pick you, that you'll tolerate a lot of things that don't work in the hopes that, you know, someday. Well, and sometimes that plays off, but I think more often than not, it, it really doesn't. So, by the way, I have to know where in Con I live in Connecticut. So where in Connecticut was that?

5 (1h 12m 55s):
I did Summer Theater of New Canan.

1 (1h 12m 58s):
I know exactly who runs that program. That's amazing. Okay,

5 (1h 13m 1s):
Cool. Yeah, I've worked for them three times. I I loved every second of it. South Pacific was one of those shows I got to do Billis in South Pacific and it's one of the only times doing theater that I thought I could do this for a couple years.

1 (1h 13m 12s):
Okay. So you haven't done, have you not done a, a lot of theater since you've been kind of in the industry?

5 (1h 13m 21s):
I, I haven't. We've got a four year old and it was kind of not necessarily an agreement that my manager and I came to, but I was like, I, I'm not gonna go out for regional stuff. I don't really wanna be away from him and I'm kind of, of the mindset that I wanna stay here and, and really focus on TV and 2022 has been my best year yet. Woohoo. So

2 (1h 13m 42s):
Congratulations.

5 (1h 13m 43s):
I've, I've been thank yeah,

2 (1h 13m 45s):
Appreciate That. This is amazing. So like, what I wanna also say is give hope to people who are character actors and maybe not even like, cause a lot of times people think of character actors as like super obvious character actors ala I don't know, like John Candy or I don't know, whatever. But there are char everyone who's everybody Yeah. Who's not an Anu is a character actor basically. And you can do it in, in, you know, after you're 20. It it do, it might get easier for you and also you work your ass off to, what I'm getting from this interview with you is like, you prep you, you do all your things.

2 (1h 14m 27s):
So I think there's sort of also this, this misconception that character actors can just show up and be wacky. No, no dudes. Oh my God. It's a serious business thing as well. So yeah, that's what I wanted.

5 (1h 14m 39s):
I I, I learned that pretty early on too. That all of this, all of these preconceived notions you have about the people at the top not working that hard is like, are you outta your mind? Everybody that's here deserves to be here. You, you know, you see that it's a, they're all hard workers. It is a fantasy. It is. It's 100% false that the people at the top don't work hard. That's bull.

1 (1h 15m 1s):
So you reviewing your imdb cause me to do something I've been meaning to do for a long time, which is start watching Search Party. Oh my God, what a great show that is. I just started watching it, so I haven't gotten to your episode, but anything can you tell us about working on Search party?

5 (1h 15m 18s):
That was, you'll have to look hard to know it's me because I'm in a rooster costume for both episodes.

1 (1h 15m 24s):
Okay.

5 (1h 15m 25s):
There's, I can't, I can't tell you how the rooster comes into play because that'll, that would kind of spoil something if you're, if you're watching. But the people on that set were, were top to bottom. The funnest people. Like the set was what you hope a set of a comedy show would be. John Early is fucking hysterical. I just really wanted to hang out with him. The, the whole I

1 (1h 15m 51s):
Love him. He's

5 (1h 15m 52s):
Hilarious. And then yeah, Espy and Charles, the directors were so, were so on everybody's side. Everybody was making choices and doing stuff and they were, they were all about it. And it was, it was, it was an actor's dream come true. The only bad part was that in my rooster costume, I couldn't sit down. So I spent about nine or 10 hours standing up. But my was

1 (1h 16m 13s):
My god, could you lean on something?

5 (1h 16m 15s):
Can lean

2 (1h 16m 16s):
On a rooster. Never sits my friend. A working rooster never sits. Come on.

5 (1h 16m 20s):
That's true.

1 (1h 16m 21s):
A professional rooster. No better That rest on,

2 (1h 16m 25s):
I,

1 (1h 16m 29s):
I love talking to you. This has been so much fun. Thank you for coming on. Thank you. Thank

5 (1h 16m 33s):
Seriously, thank you for having me. I, I appreciate what you guys do to, to get this information out to people. I love, you know, talking about acting Well

2 (1h 16m 42s):
You're gonna be fine too. You on the social medias, I mean, whether or not people are still on Twitter, that's like be, become like a don't ask don't tell situation, but are you on platforms? Are you on

5 (1h 16m 55s):
I really, my wife has been on me for four years now to get on Instagram and I'm not. Oh. So I'm at Twitter on Nick Reynolds nyc. Great. I know, I know. No, believe me, it's time to get off Twitter. So I'm gonna have to start Instagram. This is another thing about, I'm like, like, what do I, I don't have this

1 (1h 17m 12s):
Stuff to put on that I have do it. Do it because people will find you and you will connect with people will find you, and especially all the other platforms are absorbing a ton of new users because of the whole Twitter debacle. And we will post, you know what, your new Instagram, this is your sign, you need to do it today. Make your Instagram that we'll post, it'll takes you three seconds and we'll post it and then people will you there?

5 (1h 17m 34s):
Oh my God. That, that's,

1 (1h 17m 36s):
You gotta, it's the, I gotta do it. Do it. I'm gonna, that your wife is gonna be like, oh, really been you for five now you to two people. You've never, you're do. But that's

0 (1h 17m 44s):
That.

4 (1h 17m 55s):
If you liked what you heard today, please give us a positive five star review and subscribe and tell your friends I survive. Theater School is an undeniable ink production. Jen Bosworth Ramirez and Gina Politi are the co-hosts. This episode was produced, edited, and sound mixed by Gina Pucci. For more information about this podcast or other goings on of undeniable ink, please visit our [e-mail]. You could also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Thank you.