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We are a podcast that aims to provide raw, real conversations about deep topics that concern a Christ-centered lifestyle.
We want to go where no one else wants to go, and we want to showcase conversations and topics that are not easily discussed. We do this by going in depth and providing a well thought and expressed conversation about these topics.
John:
Oh, my gosh. All right, so enlightenment is not the final destination. We have just been giggling here and preparing for this, having a chat, and this is a really fun conversation we're about to have. So enlightenment is not the final destination. Now, the first thing we're going to ask is, who the heck are you to say enlightenment? Have you, are you enlightened? Have you been there? So let's talk to that elephant in the podcast room and talk to that. So what were discussing on that is there's a lot of markers of enlightenment, and we're gonna look at a scientific model that articulates this in a moment. But let's just talk about this. What are some enlightenment experiences that we've had over the journeys before we had our Christ encounter? What you guys got?
Joao:
Well, I can share mine. I had this one time where I smoked five Meo DMT, which is an even stronger version of DMT, and I was catapulted into this experience where I went outside of space and time, and then I saw this shining light of love, and it was a beautiful, loving light. But when I was in this place, I had gone beyond all forms of self. I couldn't even process that I am jaw there was no such thing. It was just pure being interlaced with that light. And then when I returned from that experience, then I slowly came to myself and I said, whoa, okay, I'm Chuao. I just had this experience and I transcended this plane. But when I was there, I was absorbed into the light.
John:
Deep, deep.
Mariana:
While I was losing myself here on my past, trying to figure out what to share about that subject now, what, some experience with some drugs that put me in. I was aware but not conscious of myself, right. So I was completely having the pleasure of being stopped in that moment of whoa. And I could at the time say that was a glimp of alignment. But the thing is, now I can look back and I can see that what was, it was like a moment of rest, of being out of the trap.
John:
A moment of rest, being outside of the trap of the mind. Of the mind, yes, of the. And the substance takes you out of that.
Mariana:
Exactly. And so I could call it kind of a moment of enlightenment, because I was searching for enlightenment, but for real, what is that? Right.
John:
So what is it?
Mariana:
Yeah, what is that?
John:
What is it? Like, were talking about that before. Like, what actually is it exactly? Is it where you're off in the clouds and you've now float away?
Mariana:
I feel that is a kind of a concept that I can have a concept, you can have a concept, he can have a concept. We know that it's a high level of vibration and we can give some kind of definitions, but what really is. I was always searching for that, even with Muji. I was eight years following that, and I was trying to figure out, and I was every day having this faith on, tomorrow will be the day. Tomorrow will be the day. Even with some glimpse of this huge peace and amazing moments, but just ephemeral.
John:
It's almost like an enlightenment and carrot. Keep going. And you have these little moments of it. Obviously, drugs is one way, but then not taking drugs. A lot of us had many of those experiences without drugs as well, where you have it. Remember a time I was coaching a client? I used to do a lot of life coaching, and I was coaching in a very high end retreat. People were paying huge money to be there. People hadn't eaten for about two weeks. And I did this exercise with a particular young lady, and all of a sudden this explosion of bliss energy just explodes between us. And she goes, do you live in this state all the time? And I just laughed internally. I didn't, because I'm in a coaching session, I'm present for my client.
John:
When I laughed, I thought, no way we could experience it. This is no drugs, nothing. There's dialogue, and I have had many of those moments. Other markers, let's just bring in a few other markers of enlightenment experiences, because a lot of these have been mapped out by various bodies of work. One book's called the science of enlightenment that goes into this in great depth. And one is also when you have time dilation. This is also known as a flow state, where the prefrontal cortex deactivates. The duality of the logical mind is no longer present. And when you're in that state, there's no time. All of a sudden, you have incredible connection to the wave you're surfing or the trees blowing in the wind. And most of us have had variations or varying degrees of that experience.
John:
You see this captured in movies like the Matrix. For those who've watched the movie where Neo is dodging the bullets in slow motion, because when you are in that flow state with the prefrontal cortex deactivated, time does dissolve. And it's another way of escaping the mind.
Mariana:
Exactly.
John:
And you can have these for varying lengths of degrees. So these are types of also other variations of enlightenment experience. And yeah, things feel amazing there. You feel love, you feel oneness, you feel super connected, peaceful. Peaceful. They're addictive. That's why extreme sport athletes pushing themselves to the edge, because I believe they're actually addicted to those states because they're incredible and they're extremely high vibrational states. And we're going to get to that in a moment, looking at something called the Doctor Hawkins scale of consciousness for those familiar with that. So we've got a number of these different markers. Maybe people have had crazy heart orgasms or moments of just complete love, and it's like this is it, and then you contract again back into the mundane or whatnot.
John:
So this scale of from Doctor Hawkins is, for those familiar or not familiar with it is a measurement of the different emotions, states of being that this particular researcher, doctor had mapped out with shame being the lowest vibrating state. And being a coach has worked a lot with people over the years, I can say that's also true. I've found that people with heavy shame, very dense, very hard to move. That emotional block takes a lot of work, typically, and then it goes all the way up from guilt and fear and anger and different vibrations. And then eventually we get to these higher ones, such as love. Now, love's amazing. All you need is love, right? Apparently that's at 500 hz in terms of a frequency. And then you go all the way up to enlighten theme of this conversation.
John:
And that's somewhere between 701,000 hz. Now, I don't know how they measured this. If they put a special machine next to a monk in Tibetan, I don't know how this was taking place, but I can certainly say that I have a lot of us here, we've experienced these markers. So this is real, this is beautiful, this is deep. There's nothing wrong with these states. They're quite amazing states. But are they the final destination? No, we're all like nodding our head here and smiling. And so how do we know something? We know it by virtue of a contrast. How do we know the stars are so beautiful and bright? Because we need that contrast to the darkness around them to help illuminate just how bright they are.
John:
Now, these enlightenment states are beautiful, but once we have an encounter with Jesus, a real encounter, like a Damascus experience in the Bible, that's a moment where the light comes in and touches this man called Saul. It becomes Paul. Oh, it just completely changes you. Now, we all have these in varying degrees at different times in our life. But once you've had that, it puts a shadow, at least for myself.
Joao:
For me as well.
John:
For you too?
Joao:
Me as well?
Mariana:
Yeah, for me as well.
John:
For you as well. A shadow over whatever you have experienced before.
Mariana:
Yes, I was doing 80 years of silence retreats. And for me, that moments each year that I was doing it was always the best week of my life because I was completely out of myself, out of the contest, out of whatever it can come to bother me. And even my mind is being tremendously calm and peaceful. And everything that was being shared there, definitely it was putting me in these high level of frequencies. But then when I come back into my life, my daily life with my problems, without knowing nothing else, apart from that point that I was feeling, that is the highest point of development of the spirituality.
Mariana:
Then I was realizing then when asked, when I coming back to my life, that I was already on the traps of my mind problems, addictions, anxieties, and so on that I wasn't able to overcome.
John:
Interesting. You saying that reminds me of some research done on monks. Now, I don't have the research to quote here, so forgive me, guys, but it basically was this research where there was a lot of these meditating monks. They lived in this monastery, and they were there doing all their rituals and bells and all the beautiful stuff they do there in this beautiful, serene setting and having wonderful encounters. And then they brought them back to live in the city, to live in suburbia. And a lot of these gentlemen, these monks, reverted back to all the old patterns and addictions that they had prior.
Mariana:
That is very endorsing. And one thing that I feel that is very interesting and serious for us to put in, maybe in the chat later on, if you feel like, is that when we go into this path of enlightenment, we are putting the focus on ourselves, right? But when we have the encounter with Jesus and we receive the Holy Spirit and we go into this deep transformation in the spiritual realm, and we know more about who we are and who God is, the focus is not no more. Ourselves is himself and is the purpose that he has for us to bring others for this. So this transform everything because it's no more our egoic way of trying to figure out a way for ourselves.
John:
I feel that is, it's definitely this. At the same time, you know, there's a lot of these enlightenment markers are where people are having these plant medicine experiences. And so forth. And not just plant medicine, but they're having the death of selves. No, I think you're telling me about some of these that you've had as well.
Joao:
Yeah, I mean, they call it ego death. In the spiritual communities, they call it ego death. It's an experience of transcending any form of self. And then on the other side, you experience the reality of things, oneness.
John:
Completely expanding into whatever may be.
Joao:
Yeah, but the thing as I see them also, why people are having these amazing experiences in these things is because it's kind of a neutral structure. The understanding of transcending self is a neutral structure taught by most people, including Christ.
John:
What do you mean by neutral structure?
Joao:
In the sense it is basically a how to that is given to humans. Basically, if you're hungry, then eat. So if I translate this, if you're wanting to see the spiritual truth, then transcend self. It's like the precursor to it. And so even Christ teaches that if you want to follow me, deny yourself, take up your cross, which means die to self. So we find this on a huge, vast array of teachers and teachings. And why do they teach it? Is because it actually works. Because there is something greater than us beyond what we currently experience in our mind, in our body, in our soul. And I think these people that are going into these amazing and deep experiences with the light is that they're actually touching some form of dimension that is holy and that is. Has got some light that elevates them.
Joao:
But what I found with Christ is also that there's layers of this light. There's many, let's say, layers and enfolded stratospheres. And when you connect to Christ, you're basically put on a direct telephone line to the author and the source of all those lower lights.
John:
You told me about a scripture from the Bible where Jesus is the giver of light. So he's like. And you're saying something earlier about, like, the jug and the pour. Maybe just want to bring that in as well.
Joao
Yeah. So basically, the scripture says that Christ, he gives light to all men. And in another one, it says that our father is the father of lights. So to be a father of something or to be a giver of something, let's say I want to give John, or I want to give Mariana this beautiful cup of water. But it actually also means that I'm greater than this water. This water is lower than myself. That's why I can bless her with.
John:
It and give it a cross.
Joao:
Yeah, yeah. And so it's the same thing with Christ. As amazing as all these light states are, he ultimately holds the key for.
John:
All of them, 100%. I want to bring a contrast in from a gentleman called Alastair Crowley. He was a huge influencer in the new age movement. Alastair Crowley said something similar in this conversation. He says, you need to, and I'm paraphrasing, it was a while ago when I read this quote from him, but you have to give yourself to your angel completely. Like surrender the self. And when you do that, you yoke with your angel, which is something similar in sorcery. For those familiar with Kallis Costa NATO's work, you merge with this other being or power, and that will give you the next level of enlightenment. So you can't get there. So even in the case of enlightenment, there's different types of it.
John:
And sadly, if I'm not mistaken, and correct me, anyone listening this if I am, but Aleister Crowley ended up with a suicidal death. So you know what you're giving yourself to, what light you're opening yourself into, beyond the realms of the dissolving of the ego, of the self, of the separate nature. It's a completely different conversation. What are you actually opening to in Carlos Cross nether and sorcery? You're hunting for power. You're partnering with entities. In another one we talked about, Pastor Michael was talking about how he partnered with a black dog in the spiritual dimension that's giving him enlightened information about people, psychic, clairvoyant intel, if you like. So these fusions beyond the self are real, and they're happening in all forms of spirituality.
John:
But an encounter with Jesus, for me and I have had many experiences with different things that I've opened up to is clean. It's pure. It's pure love, it's pure grace. It's unlike anything else. And for me, that's why I am so confident in having this dialogue in terms of an encounter with Jesus, is far beyond enlightenment states, as beautiful as they are, it is something else.
Mariana:
I confirm. I agree.
John:
And I go beyond, so beyond enlightenment. Come with us. Go on. And again, validating the enlightenment states are beautiful. You know, having time dissolve and love and all these things.
Mariana
As you said, it's amazing the way that he can give us everything that we need in terms of self realization, transformation, healing of the soul delivers for suffering, addictions, whatever, you name it. We all have some kind of diseases in our souls to resolve, but also we do have some kind of problems in terms of spirituality that even can come from our ancestors, etcetera. So it's so complex, it's so much that only he, and through he, we can really see the results on ourselves and on others, because he is the ultimate authority and power in terms of the spiritual realm. So even to support and help others that are trying to figure out some ways out of their own sufferings. And so he is the source, he is the way, the truth and the life. And apart from this, there's nothing else.
John:
Thank you. Anything else?
Joao:
I mean, maybe there's one thing, if I may add.
John:
Please.
Joao:
When Mariana was speaking, I was just reminding of all the people that are looking for deep integration. Now, what does this mean? Integration is that your spiritual experience will be coherent on all levels, on physical, on emotional, on spiritual. And as I was listening to Mariana, I'm actually just thinking, this is exactly what Jesus gives us. It's full perfect integration because he's the perfect package, the multidimensional package that gives healing, that gives life, that brings joy, that brings light, that brings bodily health, emotional health, spiritual health. And it's all of it is included within the package and is all embraced within him. And that's a beautiful thing that I found, is that when we're seeking for these high concepts of enlightenment, we do tend to disassociate. But with Christ, everything is welcomed into the beautiful dance of his light.
John:
I'm going to put a spanner in the works. How come we see unhealthy christians if Christ is the answer to everything? So for me, on this, there's a working out of this, there's also a dance of taking place, of allowing that light to come into your physical body to shift. You also take responsibility and so forth. So it's all these things. He is beyond enlightenment, 100%. But there's a journey that we also have to walk.
Mariana:
Absolutely.
John:
And play out.
Mariana:
That's why the Bible says mind people perish by lack of knowledge. Because Christ definitely, he paid a huge price for us, for our infirmities and sins, but not iniquities, for instance. So iniquities is something that goes far away on the complexity of development and transformation and understanding. So we can use power now, we, through the Holy Spirit, to move forward into these kind of situations or to go out of this, definitely when people are sick. For me, two things, or spiritual problems or soulish problems, nothing else.
John:
I mean, for me, I'll be honest in saying, you know, I've had a lot of these encounters with Christ. I've had a lot of. And I'm just going to be very frank and saying, I've had a lot of bliss, enlightenment experiences, encounters, a lot of them, even to the point where I could affect matter, many time dilation experiences and so forth. So I am feeling like I have had a fair bit of experience in this dialogue or this conversation, as well as recently, when I say recently, about eight months ago, had an encounter with Jesus directly in my room, where I woke up and I worshipped in spirit. And I could feel the. What you were saying earlier, Mariana, about the authority that he had. I knew beyond any.
John:
I can't even explain the level of certainty, that the most prolific certainty from my innermost being, Jesus has conquered every single dimension, everything. And so my union with him is working out something far beyond enlightenment. But I still have. The journey still has to unfold, and that I'm very human, I'm very fallible, and I'm okay with that. And that's the beauty of Christianity. The pure Christianity welcomes your vulnerability and your weakness. And in fact, the apostle Paul said, I glory in my weakness. I boast in it so that the power of Christ can rest in me. And that's our role, because it is a dance. Do I allow the power and the spirit of Christ to fully penetrate, permeate my weaknesses, all of me? And that's scary sometimes.
Mariana:
It's going to the end. I will say, faith to faith. Glory to glory. He needs to test us, to prove us, etcetera. But this is because if we go further on this conversation, let's be honest, he's the beginning. He's the end. He's everything, and everything was made by him. And this story was already right. And since the beginning of the world being created, and even the end of the story is already happening in the spiritual realm, but we are living now because we are living in time, something that is out of time. So this is crazy. And Jesus is the author of Life itself. He's the one that made everything. So, I mean, yeah, the problem is, like, through religion and the deception of the enemy and his plan, evil plan, people think like that.
Mariana:
When we speak about Jesus Christ, we are speaking about religion. This is nothing about religion. This is the true power of the living God. And for those who are not believing, just give a step of faith and jump into this, honestly ecstasy of the spirit.
John:
Yeah. And I think that's a certain, you know, like, if you could look into this room where we are right now, there's a lot of certainty on our faces and kind of joy within our being, because whilst we're still going on the ups and downs or the roller coaster of life. Just like all of us, there's a prolific certainty that we have in Christ Jesus because we've had an encounter and we know that there is anchor to the soul beyond any of the storms that we're going to go through. And that is something beautiful and liberating, and that is beyond enlightenment.
Mariana:
Yeah, we can keep going.
John:
No, we can keep going, but we're going to stop there. All right, guys, take care.
Mariana:
Thank you.