Roger Breedlove - Why Can't I Feel The Holy Spirit In My Life?

Show Notes

Why Can't I Feel The Holy Spirit In My Life? by Browncroft Community Church

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Peter Englert: Hello, welcome to the Why God Why podcast. We are brought to you by Browncroft Community Church. We respond to the questions that you don't feel comfortable asking in church. Today, we have a very fascinating question. It's, why can't I feel the Holy Spirit, with Roger Breedlove. He is a local pastor in Rochester, he'll share a little bit more of his story. We're here with our fantastic producer, Nathan Yoder, my illustrious co-host, or our illustrious co-host, Aaron Mercer. Aaron, before we get started with this, what do you think about this topic?

Aaron Mercer: So I should just tell Pastor Roger real quick, we're trying to figure out a good way to describe Peter at the beginning of the, he always throws out the illustrious, and we've got to figure out a good one for him. No, I think this is a great episode, a great conversation. It's something I think a lot of people wonder about, a lot of people think about, whether they are part of a church or not they have probably come across this question one way or another. And so I'm really excited about it.

Roger Breedlove: Awesome.

Aaron Mercer: So thank you so much, Pastor Roger, for being here with us today.

Roger Breedlove: Thank you for the invite.

Aaron Mercer: Yeah, well I wondered, would you mind, before we got into the question, could you give our listeners just a little bit of, we are thankful we've gotten interact with you a bit here at Browncroft, and I've loved your messages, you've preached here, so thank you so much, and for the ways our churches have worked together. But could you give a little overview for our listeners just on how you, how'd you get involved in the ministry here at Rochester?

Roger Breedlove: Actually, it's amazing because, my story, I don't think my story is as illustrious, probably, as you guy's story, how you guys came to the Lord and all those kind of things. But I grew up, of course, I grew up in Rochester. I am a Rochesterian. I am 64 years old. I'll be married 41 years to my awesome wife coming up in July the Fourth, and how we got started, how I got started in ministry. She was saved before I got saved, and so it was probably in our second year of marriage where she had invited me to church, but I remember saying to her, "I'm not coming up there. I see some of those guys embracing one another and different things like that. I'm not about that." And didn't really know anything about the things of God, so to speak.

Roger Breedlove: And so I remember her coming home one day and she said to me, she said, "I'm not going to ask you to come to church with me anymore." She said, "I've turned you over to the Lord." And so I said, "Man, that's great." I said "That's fine with me." So that means I can continue to stay home on Sundays, watch the football game, watch some basketball, whatever I wanted to do in that time, that span, when she was there. And so I remember, now, kind of hindsight, knowing how prayer works and there's a scripture in the Bible says, "The two of you shall agree on Earth." That's touching anything. "They shall ask, it'll be able to be granted to them."

Roger Breedlove: Now I was in agreement with her about her turning me over to the Lord, didn't know it at the time when I was saying it, but what ended up happening, I remember me one Sunday morning getting up and I said to myself, I'm going to go up to this church just to see who's talking to my wife. That's basically the only reason I went. And so I go up there and I hear about the birth, the death, the resurrection and the ascension of Jesus Christ, and the rest is history, so to speak.

Roger Breedlove: And so the Lord, actually, I was a member at Aenon Missionary Baptist Church for about 15 years. I was a officer over there, I was a deacon over there, then got called to the ministry there. And after about five years there as a minister, I just felt a tug on my life as far as to start... I know going to the ministry, but I didn't know a lot of things, but at the same time, it was a gentleman out of California that I had been kind of keeping my eyes on. And so when I really got called and the Lord said to me, "I want you to preach my word." I remember saying to him, because I was in a Baptist church, and you have to understand in a Baptist church, they do a lot of preaching. Well, I knew I was a teacher because we were teaching Sunday school and that was just my cup of tea, so to speak. So I knew that.

Roger Breedlove: When I got called into the ministry, and the Lord said he wanted me to preach his word, I said, "I can't do that well." The that, I'm not going to get into the that, but the that he knew what I was talking about. I wanted to be the same person Monday through Saturday, on Sunday morning. But God said, "No, I didn't ask you to do that." And so I remember watching a gentleman on television teaching the Bible, teaching the word of God. He had a Bible in his hand, and the people was in the audience, they were taking notes. And I remember saying to God, "Okay, I can see myself doing that." And he said, "That's what I want you to do. I want you to go teach my people."

Roger Breedlove: But he told me he wanted me to teach his people four things. Once they receive Christ as saving, confessing him as Lord, he wanted me to teach them who they are in Christ, where they are in Christ, what they have in Christ, and what they can do in Christ. And so that's kind of my story, how we actually came into the ministry. We started In Christ New Hope Ministry about 23 years ago, we started on Brooks Avenue. After two and a half years, we moved to the town of Henrietta and we've been there, we built an edifice there probably about 11 years ago, and so that's where we are at this time.

Aaron Mercer: Is that, the four points you laid out there, is that where the name of the church, In Christ New Hope, comes from?

Roger Breedlove: No, because what happened is that I was trying to name that church everything but In Christ New Hope Ministry. I was trying to name it In Christ Baptist dot dot dot dot dot. So all kind of Pentecost, I'm trying to do everything. And he said, "No, I want you to name the church In Christ." So yeah, what you were saying, In Christ, in the anointed one, and in his anointing, new expectancy, because that's what the word hope means. So that's where it kind of, everything blossomed from.

Aaron Mercer: Wow. That's a good jumping point.

Peter Englert: Well, I know, there's a lot, so our question is why can't I feel the Holy Spirit? And I can in our listeners right now are kind of like, Roger just told his story, and he mentioned there were times that God talked with him and stuff, and I want to explore that, but I want to go back to the Sunday morning that you said, my wife wants me to go to church.

Roger Breedlove: Right.

Peter Englert: And I'm just going to go check it out.

Roger Breedlove: Right.

Peter Englert: So as you look back, did you see the Holy Spirit at work in you? Because sometimes people don't feel it, and-

Roger Breedlove: Did I see the Holy Spirit? I didn't even know of a Holy Spirit.

Aaron Mercer: That's what they said in the Book of Acts, right?

Roger Breedlove: No, I didn't see any of those things happening. All I knew, hindsight now, as we were talking before, and what my wife said, I'm not going to... Now you have to understand a little of the backdrop there is that she was going to this particular class where they were really teaching on the Holy Spirit, they were teaching on the works of the Holy Spirit, what he does, his activities. And so they started making different confessions at the end of each class, and then she said that, now of course this is about 15 years later too. She said they would say things about husbands, spouses, different things, she would say, "Okay, that's my husband. That's my husband. I received that Lord. That's my husband."

Roger Breedlove: Now I don't know anything about this stuff, that she's making this confession about. So I didn't know anything about the Holy Spirit. And that's the great thing about the Holy Spirit is that, when you pray, we are to believe that we receive what we have prayed for. So she had made her petition to God, she comes along with me and said, "I'm not going to ask you to come anymore. I've turned you over to the Lord." Like a spiritual dummy, I say, "Yeah, right, good, fine, I can stay home now." Not understanding that I'm in agreement with what she said, because I said, "That's fine, great, you turned me over to the Lord." Now I have this tug, don't know what the tug is. And so what people say about the Holy Spirit, something told me, I had a feeling, so we'll talk about the Holy Spirit in all of those aspects.

Roger Breedlove: I had a feeling, that no, he's a person, he's the person of the Holy Spirit. And the reason I always use that term, and I've probably been using that term for over 25 years, the reason I've always used that term is because as you start looking, we've seen pictures, so-called pictures, of the Father. We've seen so-called pictures of Jesus Christ. But I always like to ask our congregation this question, who has ever seen a picture of the Holy Spirit? So if I don't know Peter, but what I can do, someone sends me a bio of Peter, guess what? I have some type of inclination of what Peter is like, the things that he liked, the things that he doesn't like.

Roger Breedlove: And so that's what we started doing when we started this particular series with the Holy Spirit, we said we're going to allow the Bible to describe to us who the Holy Spirit is. And so we found out that he could be greed, we found out that he could be lied to, just a whole lot of things. And we said to ourselves, man, it seems like they are describing a person. And that's where, so this urge, that to come to the church was, now, I know now, didn't know it then, I'm thinking, let me go up here and see who's talking to my wife. But all that time, the Holy Spirit is tugging on me, leading me, I don't have a clue, but he's leading me to the place where he always wanted me to be from day one.

Peter Englert: We're going to talk about that series. I love how you're kind of bringing some context. And so first of all, what did you do between the 15 years of showing up on Sunday morning and deciding to become a pastor?

Roger Breedlove: Whatever I wanted to do. Are you talking about when I wasn't a Christian?

Peter Englert: No, no, no. Between, I thought I heard you say you became a Christian.

Roger Breedlove: Right.

Peter Englert: And then-

Roger Breedlove: I was at Aenon for 15 years.

Peter Englert: Yeah.

Roger Breedlove: Right. Well, when I was at Aenon, basically, me and my wife taught Sunday school, ages, I think it was a junior class, I think, and we taught that class for about 10 years. So we had ages, I think, nine through 12. So it was awesome, I loved it because I fell in love with just with the word of God. It was like the teaching ministry, almost like you'd put a coin inside of a, let's just say you're buying a drink or something and you put the coin inside of the machine. And it was like that coin dropping down in that machine, it was like the teaching ministry, the teaching gift, dropped in my spirit. I just knew that I knew that I knew, that I would just wanted to teach the word of God.

Roger Breedlove: So in those 15 years, I was a student of the word at Aenon Missionary Baptist Church, as far as attending Bible class and teaching, and excuse me, doing a lot of things within the city. Outreaches, teaching at different youth, so I was doing whatever I can. I would preach to, I would teach to some flowers if they stayed there long enough for me to listen to.

Peter Englert: Did you work at Aenon? Or did you have another career at the time?

Roger Breedlove: Oh, no, I worked at Xerox Corporation for about 25 years. I worked in manufacturing for about 25 years, so I was there, and it was kind of interesting there because when I first went there, to Xerox, I wasn't saved, the first four, four and a half years that I was there. And so I got laid off, and I'll never forget this, and you're bringing some things up, Pete, that I forgot about.

Roger Breedlove: But I got laid off in like 1982, and I'll never forget, there was this young lady that was there. She was a Christian, and we were getting ready to clock out, I'll never forget, it was in 84, and we was getting ready to clock out. And in the midst of, it was our last day, and as we was getting ready to clock out, a lot of people were saying a lot of different things, and so she made this statement, and I wasn't saved, she said, "This could be a blessing in disguise to some of us." And so, of course, I'm not saved, so I say, "Blessing in disguise? It's not a blessing. I'm getting laid off. I've got to take care of my family." I'm just going off, da, da, da, da. And not understanding, when I got laid off, I got saved about a year after I got laid off.

Peter Englert: So one last personal question, then let's talk about the, because this is powerful, because a lot out of time in our life we're looking at life right here. And what you're doing is you're giving us perspective of saying, you look back and you see the Holy Spirit working.

Roger Breedlove: Oh, absolutely.

Peter Englert: And I guess, I'm kind of curious, you made a huge career decision. You switched from working manufacturing, working a Monday through Friday job, to becoming a pastor. How did you, because I think part of the question is, how much do I listen to other people? How much do I listen to that voice in my head? How much do I listen to the Holy Spirit? How did you navigate all of that? Because you made a significant career change, that looking back, seems like it was the right decision?

Roger Breedlove: Right.

Peter Englert: So yeah, walk us through that.

Roger Breedlove: Well, when I got laid off, my wife was still working. So she worked afternoons, and so I would take her to work. And at the time, we lived right across the street from my mom. So I would take her to work at 3:00, and then I would come back home, and I basically would just study the Bible, just read the Bible. And that went on probably for about a little over a year. And so I just kind of saturated myself with the word of God. So now, what's what's happening now, I'm starting to get familiar with the voice of God. And not even some, I just, they just said that you're Christian, you need to start reading the Bible. So I'm just reading the Bible, but I'm falling in love with the Bible. I'm falling in love with the word of God.

Roger Breedlove: So I started taking the words off the pages of the Bible and applying them to my everyday life. Because I believe this, if God is God, and he tells us that he wants us to study his word, his word has to be applicable to my everyday life. Because if it's not applicable to my everyday life, I'm wasting my time. I don't need to know about once upon a time. I need to know what can I use, right now, in my everyday life that can benefit not only me, but show me how to raise my family, show me how to be a good husband, show me how to be a good brother in the Lord, all the above, and everything in which I'm endeavoring to do. This has to be apply-able, it has to be applicable to my everyday life. And if not, then, this is just me personally, I think that I'm wasting my time.

Aaron Mercer: Wow. It's so good to hear some of your story on how you got to, first to church in the first place, and then became a pastor. And I don't know, I love hearing stories anyways, so it's kind of fun for me, but I did want to just quickly say too, I love that today we have a live studio actually. If they're not listening, they're watching on YouTube, Pastor Roger and I, and maybe Peter too, have looked off screen a little bit, so Pastor Roger's lovely bride is here. We're really grateful for that, and she's also making sure we check our facts and things like that. [crosstalk].

Aaron Mercer: So anyways, I thought someone was watching that, they might wonder what's going on. No, but I also wanted to acknowledge, thank you so much for being here. So yeah, so I'm really curious, you mentioned a couple times the recent sermon series, a message series on the Holy Spirit, on who he is. And I just want to learn more about that, but I think actually what I'd love to know is, how did you even get to that series in the first place? Or you talked about how you have gotten to know the voice of God, you were listening to him and you felt called into being a full-time pastor. But do you feel like, is the reason that you even started this series, you wanted to go deeper on it yourself, but did you sense that people in your congregation, maybe they're kind of where you were at when you first started going to church and trying to learn about who God is? What was the catalyst for this series?

Roger Breedlove: Well, usually, what happened, usually or around the November timeframe, it's amazing the way God deals with all of us, and the thing that I love about God is that he'll always meet us. Of course, this is hindsight, again, God, he'll always meet us where we are. So usually always around the November timeframe, our theme for the year, he'll always start dropping that in my spirit. And so I just sensed that, okay, because I'm always saying, "Okay Lord, where do you want to take us this year? What are some of the things that you want to do with us? You know every heart that's in this congregation, the people that view, and so what are we going to do?" And he said to me, "I want you to teach this series on the Holy Spirit, on the third person of the Godhead." Because what ends up happening is that, as I said before, we know about God, well we think we know about God, we know about Jesus Christ, he the Savior of the world, but about this Holy Spirit, who is he?

Roger Breedlove: And now in the Bible, it says, that he is the one that Jesus introduced, right? So under the Old Covenant, you saw he's been primarily noted as the work of the Father. In the New Covenant, he's been primarily the work of the Son, Jesus Christ. But in our present age, now you see the work of the Holy Spirit. You see, especially, in a few chapters, I love these chapters in John, 13, 14, 15, and 16. You start seeing where Jesus is really, I did a series one time, it was called Just on Conversational Prayer. But one of the things that we started talking about, when you look at the 13th chapter, you start seeing Jesus watching defeat of his disciples. You see where he starts saying someone, one of you guys are going to deny me. Then you also start seeing where actually Judas, his self, turned Jesus over to the establishment.

Roger Breedlove: But then what starts having in chapter 14, you start seeing now how he tells him all these things, but then he said, "Don't let your heart be troubled." Right? But his whole objective is now, he's getting ready to leave, he's getting ready to go to the cross, he's getting ready to go to the Father. So now what he's doing, he's leaving last minute instruction on how to conduct kingdom business while he's away. And so now what does he start doing? He starts introducing the person of the Holy Spirit. And he starts saying, "Of course there's many things I want to say to you, but you're not able to, but when he, the Spirit of Truth has come, he'll lead you and guide you into all truth."

Roger Breedlove: So now you start seeing how Jesus is introducing him. So this, the other part that I saw, that I never saw before, is that the Father, God, never wanted us to be alone. God always wanted a family, always. But the challenge, not that God has any challenges, but the challenge that God was going to experience was making that family just as righteous as he is. In other words, he never wanted us to be afraid of him. He always wanted to commune with us. So now you see Jesus actually introducing the person of the Holy Spirit.

Roger Breedlove: And so when I started seeing this, I said, man, this is what we really need at this particular time. We need to build a relationship with the most important person in this Earth realm today. And so, as I started looking at that, and the Holy Spirit, he started saying to me, he said, "Listen." He said, "The Holy Spirit is more important than the United States of America. The Holy Spirit is more important than the group of seven. The Holy Spirit is more important than any psychiatrist, all the psychiatrists put together. He has more knowledge of all the books that we have in our library."

Roger Breedlove: And so I asked the question why, and this is what the Lord said to me. He said, "Because he is the most important person on this Earth realm, because he is the one God, that God the Father, and Jesus Christ the Son, put their stamp of approval on." Because all of them, he was sent to complete the word, so God the Father started talking about the Holy Spirit. Jesus the Son started talking about the Holy Spirit. So now, if they're talking about him, he must be somebody that we need to probably build a relationship with, and that's how the series actually just came about.

Aaron Mercer: I'm curious, as you've been going through the series, what role that the Holy Spirit can play in our lives, if we let him? Or I mean, he's God, so God can do whatever he wants. But, what role has kind of resonated the most with people in your congregation? As a comforter? Counselor? I mean, what?

Roger Breedlove: Well that's, I think you just knocked it out the park right there. In the 16th chapter of John, Jesus makes this declaration, he says, "It's expedient unto me that I go away," he said, "because if I don't go away, the comforter can't come," won't come, can't come. Because now, think about it, when they were in Jerusalem, then all the Holy Spirit was in Jerusalem. But there may have been some things going on in Capernaum, but the Holy Spirit is in Jerusalem. So Jesus said, "It's expedient that I go away, because if I don't go away, the Holy Spirit can't come." He called him the Holy Spirit, but if you look at that same verse, I think it's in John 16:7 verse from the amplified, he gives all those different superlatives about the Holy Spirit.

Roger Breedlove: He's the counselor, what you just said, he's a counselor, he's a standby, he's a strengthener, da, da, da, da. So, if he doesn't go away, he said, he's not going to come. And so he says, "I'm going to send you another comforter." So of course, Jesus had to be the first comforter. So what he's saying is that if I don't go away, because Jesus' objective was always to get himself duplicated, right? And this is the reason being, it's because he calls himself the Son of Man, that's what Jesus calls himself.

Roger Breedlove: He was, Jesus was, is, he was the Son of God, but when he came into this Earth realm, he didn't come into this Earth realm as the Son of God, because we could never duplicate the works of the Son of God, that's a whole different animal. So he refers to himself as the Son of Man. So he was the Son of Man anointed by the Spirit of God. So we can duplicate the works of a man. In other words, Peter can show me how to do something right now, and I can duplicate that.

Roger Breedlove: So Jesus, it was very important that he said about himself, that he called himself the Son of Man. So now, he's going to duplicate himself with these 12 disciples that he had. And that's my objective, if we understand what really the purpose of the Holy Spirit, is that because all of us are going to, when we disperse this place, we're going to go to different places, but the Holy Spirit can be just as effective. Why? Because he's in you, he's in me. So now we can still be as effective, but when Jesus was in this Earth realm, when they went to Jerusalem, that's where the Holy Spirit was at. So now Jesus, his objective, is getting himself duplicated.

Roger Breedlove: And that's what my objective in this particular series is to let each and every one of our congregants know, build a relationship with him because he really is the teacher of the church. And so I was sharing with them, we are the church, individually, but then we are the body of Christ, collectively. So now I can get more work done, because I have more people that have this person of the Holy Spirit that's leading them and guiding them into all truth, and he is the one that has the plans for the church.

Peter Englert: So, as a church, and for our listeners, Roger just went deep into the Trinity, the divinity and humanity of Jesus. And one of the things I love is you walk this tension of deep theology, but also application. And so I feel like a lot of this next generation is isn't asking is Christianity right?

Roger Breedlove: Right.

Peter Englert: They're asking, does it work? So I guess my question to you is, right now as we record this, there's Russia and Ukraine.

Roger Breedlove: Right.

Peter Englert: Right now, we're still kind of in the middle of a pandemic. It doesn't seem like the news is good. I don't feel the Holy Spirit, that's probably where this question is coming from. What would you say to that person of, why does this even work?

Roger Breedlove: Well, when you say that you don't feel the Holy Spirit, and I would agree wholeheartedly. And that's why, when I always refer to him, I refer to him as the person of the Holy Spirit, because he's not a feeling. And for so long we have, because the enemies objective, of course, I have always... Jesus said it like this, he said, "I'm going to tell you why the thief came, and then I'm going to tell you why I came." He said, "The thief come to do three things." In John, 10:10, "To steal, to kill and to destroy." And then he said, "Okay, now I'm going to tell you why I came. The only reason that I came is that you might have life." That word life, [inaudible], got kind, got quality of life. "I came that you might have life and that you might have it more abundantly."

Roger Breedlove: So the only life that God came, or Jesus came, to give us, excuse me, was the abundant life. So now, this abundant life that I have, and Jesus said, "I'm going to give you my life, but in order for you to have my life, Roger, you're going to have to come to an end of yourself. So once you get of out the way, allow me, Roger, to live my life through you. As a matter of fact, I'll make you look smart, if you allow me to live my life through."

Roger Breedlove: So, so when we start, again, when all these things going on and I say I don't feel the Holy Spirit, that's because, again, that's, feeling is a part of our senses, correct? Because everything that we've learned before we came into the things of God, we learned it from our five senses. And now once we received Jesus' saving, confess him as a Lord of our life, now, that's what faith is all about. Because faith is, in its simplest term, it's just acting on what you believe, right? So if that's true, then when it comes to feelings, and that's where the enemy really would like to keep us at in our feelings, because I could wake up tomorrow morning and say, "I don't feel like I'm married," but I'm married, it's got nothing to do with it.

Roger Breedlove: So our feelings and our emotions have nothing to do with it. Now I don't minimize feelings and emotions, I just don't allow them to dictate to me how I'm going to act, what I'm going to do. I allow the word of God, because the Bible said the just shall live by faith. So you could ask the question, "Well, how long do you live in a 24 period?" You live 24 hours. So I don't base my feeling, feeling the Holy Spirit, on how I deal with the Holy Spirit. I deal with the Holy Spirit based on what the word of God has to say about him.

Roger Breedlove: So when those particular situations in Ukraine, and really that Ukraine situation is very dear to our heart, as In Christ New Hope Ministry, because there's a young man that was playing the violin in our congregation for a few months, he's actually over there now. And so they interviewed him from here, some kind of way, they interviewed him, but we can be effective in all those things. Well, how? By really praying and taking our rightful position, our authority, those particular things, so the Holy Spirit, what he'll do, he'll lead us, right? He'll lead us and guide us into all truth.

Roger Breedlove: So there'll be some things that are going on that he'll nudge us and say, "You know what, Roger? You really do need to pray about this Ukraine situation. I really do need for you to be interceding for these particular people at this particular time this is going on." So if I'm in close proximity with the Holy Spirit, which I am, if I'm very sensitive to his leading, which I am, I say, "Okay, okay, Holy Spirit, today." We get up and we say, "This is the day that the Lord has made. Okay, Lord, what do you really want me do today? What are some of the things that you want me to focus on today?" And so from that particular thing, why I don't feel him. He's not a feeling, please understand that, if you guys don't hear anything I say today, please understand that he is not a feeling. He is a person. He's in this. He's part of the Godhead, and he's the most important person in this Earth realm today.

Peter Englert: So, what I think I hear you saying is, why Christianity works, you are not just out in the middle of nowhere trying to listen to the Holy Spirit, but you're saying-

Roger Breedlove: No, no, no.

Peter Englert: You're saying, my habit, because we've been talking, is to read the Bible.

Roger Breedlove: Right.

Peter Englert: I'm in community at church.

Roger Breedlove: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Peter Englert: And there's times where I might feel the Holy Spirit, I might not.

Roger Breedlove: Right. Right.

Peter Englert: But because the Holy Spirit is a person, it's a relationship.

Roger Breedlove: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Peter Englert: And it's through these habits that you begin to sense or feel, is that the way you'd explain it?

Roger Breedlove: Sense. I'll use the word sense. In other words, because there is a sensing that he will, because he's there to lead us and guide us into all truth. So the reason, the only reason I know the leading, the sensing of the Spirit, the sensing of him leading us, in whatever direction he's leading us in, is because I've become, because of reading the word of God, I familiarized himself, because this is where he going to speak from that. This is where he he's going to always give us, it'll be a thin line that's to the point where he's, I know when he says something it's... Well, Jesus said like this, "My sheep know my voice." Now the only reason I know his voice, we know his voice, is because we've spent some time. The only reason I know my wife's voice and her attributes, some different things about her, is because we spent time.

Roger Breedlove: And it's the same principle. I think what we try to do, we try to make things kind of spooky with people and I think that's why sometimes, be to our listeners or someone they say, "I don't want that church stuff. No, it's kind of spooky." No, no, no. It's in our everyday life. So my leading of the person out of the Holy Spirit and sensing that, and not a feel, but a sensing him leading me in a certain way is because I'm very aware and sensitive to his voice. And I'm asking every morning, I'm saying, "Okay, all right, what are we doing today?"

Roger Breedlove: And so I want to make it... I like to use this terminology, reasoning from the known to the unknown. In other words, I know what I know. Okay, then God can take me deeper. So the first thing I want to do in the morning, I want to ask, "Okay, good morning, Holy Spirit. Okay. What are we doing today?" I know some of the things that, if I know I have a few meetings, like I met with Pastor Rob a few weeks ago. I said, "All right, Lord, what do you want? What do you want us focusing on? What are some of the things that we need to talk about?"

Roger Breedlove: Or you know, "I'm meeting with him." So I'm not writing out a list and saying, okay, you need to say this to Rob at 12:05, You need to say this at 10, at 12, da da da. No, it's just, I'm putting it out there. And so then it's going to be just a flow now, it's going to be a flow now, versus me saying, okay, I got to do this, time to do this, if that makes spiritual sense.

Peter Englert: So one more, because I think even what you're saying is, hey, go about your day.

Roger Breedlove: Right.

Peter Englert: But recognize that God is always with you.

Roger Breedlove: Absolutely.

Peter Englert: Because in the Bible it says things like pray without [inaudible].

Roger Breedlove: Yep.

Peter Englert: Which kind of seems impossible.

Roger Breedlove: Right.

Peter Englert: But you're saying, hey, as you go into these meetings, as you engage people.

Roger Breedlove: Yes sir.

Peter Englert: As you do your tasks, maybe just keep in mind and be aware.

Roger Breedlove: Right.

Peter Englert: That God might be working through the Holy Spirit in you.

Roger Breedlove: Absolutely, because this is the thing. We've all already gotten up in the morning. We've already prayed. And so what we end up doing is praying our day. Now. In the midst of already praying our day through, when things happen, you've already invited God in. So it's not anything surprising to him. It's like, "Oh, okay, the Lord is in there, man, I didn't see that coming, Roger." No, no, no. We've already invited him in. And so our day, whatever is corresponding, I'm trusting because I've already given it to him. I've already thanked him for the day. I've already prayed about my health for the day. I've already prayed about my children for the day, whatever the case may be.

Roger Breedlove: So now it's just like we're in fellowship. And think about it, the word fellowship in the Greek is the word [inaudible], and it just means equal sharing. It just means, like we're in conversation now, we're sharing, I'm listening, or you guys are probably doing a little more listening today than usual, but you guys are listening to me, but at the same time I'm listening to you. That's what fellowship is all about. I think we make it kind of spooky, but fellowship is just an equal sharing.

Aaron Mercer: Mm. Do you think there's, while your church is going through this series, do you think there's anybody in your congregation who is kind of like your wife, back a long time ago, says she's going to go let God deal with you, turn you over at Holy Spirit. Do you think there are people that are-

Roger Breedlove: Absolutely.

Aaron Mercer: So that's actually-

Roger Breedlove: Absolutely. [crosstalk].

Aaron Mercer: Question too, but I thought it was really. I love it. I guess kind of jumping off that question, so let's say someone is sort of maybe does think that this whole conversation feels a little bit out there, spooky, or whatever. Because they might be, maybe they tangentially are connected to a church, maybe they're not quite sure they want to check out a church, I don't know. How would they know if the... I mean, we can talk about people who are Christians also, but how would they know? How would each of those kind of people know that maybe the Holy Spirit is at work in their lives? How could they even sense that? Now I don't want to say, I loved how you said that the Holy Spirit is not a feeling. He's not a feeling, he's not a force, he's a person.

Roger Breedlove: Right.

Aaron Mercer: But how could someone be attentive to the work of the Holy Spirit in their life, if they don't know what to look for?

Roger Breedlove: Well, first of all, I think that God has placed on the inside of every individual who's ever came into this Earth realm, a void that only he can fill. And so we may think that this is what I'm looking for, oh yeah, it's the house, I got the house. Or it could be the wife, or it could be, whatever the case may be. But you'll never be totally, totally at peace until the prince, of course the prince of peace, lands in our heart and we really start allowing him to work in and through our lives. So I think, just the way that people are, God is always going to have someone in one of our families to pray for us, and sooner or later, I just trust, I have enough faith in God that what God did in Jesus Christ is more powerful than what the enemy did in Adam.

Roger Breedlove: So I trust that, and that's where I hang my hat at, that God will always prevail, irregardless of where we are. And even in these times in which we are right now, and what's going on over in Ukraine, I trust our God, I trust the angels of the Lord as they continue to harken to the voice of the Lord, our God. And so I just believe that as we put God's word on our tongue, that the angels of the Lord will harken to our voice as well.

Peter Englert: It's probably even, you could make the argument if you're listening to this episode, it's probably the Holy Spirit that's leading.

Roger Breedlove: All right.

Peter Englert: I don't want to jump that far off, but. So let me throw an example from this morning, and we can have some fun. Aaron's all ready for this, he has no idea what's going to come.

Aaron Mercer: I don't know, this is sometimes, this could be an interesting question. I don't know.

Peter Englert: So this morning, I'm dropping my two daughters off at daycare, and I see another family, and they go, "We have some news for you. We just want to let you know, we're moving." And they didn't say where right away, but when they said, "I'm moving," I just kept thinking Richmond, Richmond, and all of a sudden, I go, "Well, where are you moving to?" Richmond. And so here's the mental gymnastics that I'm going through in my head, I'm like, "I've talked with them. Have I asked them where they're from? Did I remember? Or is this really the Holy Spirit?" And I guess where I'm leaving, and then I want you to kind of push back on it, is, I go, maybe I talked with them. I'm not going to say that I didn't, maybe I forgot that in the back of my mind, subconsciously. But it just kind of seemed like to me that as I pray for this family, that becomes really, really important. I don't know. As you walk through that situation, what would you push back to me, or say, or kind of, you know?

Roger Breedlove: I wouldn't push back. I would understand that. I would just say kudos to what the Holy Spirit dropped in your spirit, because you get back to the principle that Jesus talks about. He said, "My sheep, they know my voice. And the voice of a stranger, they won't follow." Well, Jesus said, "When he, the spirit of truth, has come, he will lead you into all truth." And then he says this, concerning Richmond, "He'll show you things to come." So that sounds like a person to me, the unseen person of the Holy Spirit, the only part of the Godhead figure that's in this Earth realm today.

Roger Breedlove: That's why the work of the Holy Spirit is the most important work on Earth. The most important work on Earth is not our jobs. The most important work on Earth is not bureaucracy of government. The most important work on Earth is not a cure for COVID 19. The most important work on Earth is the work of the Holy Spirit in the lives of every individual that comes into this Earth realm. Because that's how we will change our communities, that's how we'll change our State, that's how we'll change the nation, that's how we'll change the world. And that's how the kingdoms of this world can become the kingdoms of our God, only because of the leading of the person of the Holy Spirit, and us yielding to him, and allowing him, coming to an end of ourselves.

Roger Breedlove: I was thinking about this, when you think about a lifeguard, any lifeguard worth their salt will never try to save an individual that is steady fighting. Steady fighting, because see, both of them go down. And so what'll happen, once that person that's saying that they can't swim, once that person comes to an end of their self, the lifeguard is qualified and knows how to get the person out. The Holy Spirit is qualified and knows how to get us through everything that we endeavor to do, but he'll never force his self. He's God. So he'll lead us, the Bible says, and guide us into all truth. If we're going to Buffalo, those directions will lead and guide us. Those directions won't, Peter, you're going to go this way. No, he'll just lead. He'll just say, well get off at this exit, do that.

Roger Breedlove: So I think we make it a lot more spookier than it is at all, because this is who God is. God is infinite, right? Man is finite. And so you have this infinite being piping information to a finite being, and he does it like a painter. He'll give us a little bit, "Walk in that light, Peter, I'll give you a little more." And that's just the way, that's the way he leads us and guides us. It's not anything strange, it's in our everyday life.

Aaron Mercer: What about when people, how would you suggest people, let's talk Christians in particular right now, but I think you could have an interesting conversation with someone who is a Christian and just interacting with the world. I mean, we've been talking about how someone is trying to see how the Holy Spirit is at work and in their own lives, and then that affects how they're interacting with the world around them. But what about, let's say you were talking about getting the right directions to Buffalo or wherever else, but what happens when a group of people, let's just say, even two people, kind of feel like they're feeling directed different directions?

Aaron Mercer: What's a good process for them to really seek out, what is the direction that the person of the Holy Spirit is trying to lead them to? Do you have any tips or any practices?

Peter Englert: Let's have some real fun with that.

Aaron Mercer: Oh, Peter's going to make an example. All right. [crosstalk].

Peter Englert: So let's say I'm dating someone, and I'm trying to decide, I'm getting married. I've got a job opportunity in California, but I live in Rochester. It pays way more. My future wife wants to stay, but I want to go take this job. What would you advise?

Roger Breedlove: Definitely, because what the Holy Spirit will do, there will always be a peace about the situation. So I would put the cards on the table to the Holy Spirit, "Holy Spirit, I definitely want to take this job opportunity, but I definitely love my future wife, fiance, who I would love to marry." And so I would weigh that situation, put it before him. And this is the thing about the Holy Spirit, he'll give view peace about it, but it's a force, because he's God, and we'll get back to the principle of God, that God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, so love gives and love always supplies.

Roger Breedlove: So I would say to that individual, I would put it to the Holy Spirit, but again, I think you'll just have a peace in your heart about it. And that's how he leads us. He leads us and guides us into all truth. But, he's the helper though. See, he's called a helper, he won't do it for you. He'll say, okay, so what, God doesn't want, we're not robots. So he is not going to make us. Even our spouses that we have, see what he'll do, he'll bring some candidates in front of you and say "Okay, so which one you think you want?"

Roger Breedlove: See, this is the thing with God. He doesn't, God never wanted robots. I know people say, "Well, the Lord made me." Oh God, doesn't make, he doesn't. Look at, look throughout the Bible and you'll see where God just leads people, guys, because he wants us to do it because we love him, not because he made us do it. So that particular question, Peter, would have everything to do with what does that person really want. And, I just think that the Holy Spirit would give them peace on what direction to travel in. I don't know if that answered your question or not.

Peter Englert: No, I think even what you're saying is, if you think you have peace, but you're really doing things for selfish reasons.

Roger Breedlove: Right.

Peter Englert: Either way. Maybe you should break up and move to California.

Roger Breedlove: Right.

Peter Englert: Maybe this desire to go to California and climb the corporate ladder isn't really a good one.

Roger Breedlove: Right.

Peter Englert: But if you're not acknowledging, and I think what you're saying about peace is so powerful, because what you're saying is, you have to look beyond the situation, and you have to invite God into the process.

Roger Breedlove: That's the key. Because that's the whole thing, if we will invite him in, it don't make a difference because, not that we are not going to make mistakes if we invite him in, but the number one thing that I think God wants us to do is to always invite him in. I don't know if you guys ever heard this guy by name of John Wesley. And he made this statement, and it's amazing. He said, "It seems like God has limited himself by our prayer life." And then he said this, he said, "It seems like God can't do anything for humanity unless someone asks him to." And that's just a whole nother message in and of itself. But if you think about that, God is wanting us to do what you just said, he wants us just to invite him in. Now when we invite him in, even if I make mistakes, and I have, not looking to, will make some more, not looking to, but we still have the presence of God, it's not like we didn't invite him in on that situation.

Aaron Mercer: So do you think that's the biggest hang up for why we can't, why someone might be having trouble identifying the presence of the Holy Spirit, the person of the Holy Spirit in their life, I mean, is that they didn't invite him in?

Roger Breedlove: Exactly. I think wholeheartedly because this is the thing, and I was thinking about this, this morning. God does not, even to this moment, be it 2:20, 2:25, whatever the case may be, God does not trust us with anyone except himself. Think about it. The Bible says God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son. And so Jesus comes along, and then once he's with them, his disciples, he said, "I'm not going to leave you comfortless. I'm going to give you the Holy Spirit." And then I think it's in Hebrews 13:5, God says that. "I'll never leave you. Nor will I ever forsake you." God never, he doesn't trust anyone with us except his self. Think about our children. Think about who do we really, we're not just going to turn our children over to anyone. Well, we can't love our children more than God loves us. So God always wanted to be present in our life, and when we knowledge his presence, then it's basically he's saying, I can protect my children.

Peter Englert: Roger, this is always a dream for our podcast, it's like we just had coffee, and we just have a couple thousand listeners for this.

Roger Breedlove: Praise God.

Peter Englert: So, we always close with one question, and then the question is, what does Jesus have to say about this topic? So the good news is, you go last to clean up the mess that we might make. So Aaron and I answer that. And yeah, we'll see how the Holy Spirit leads, I don't know. You want to go first Aaron? Or?

Aaron Mercer: Sure. I think it's always good to have the pastors go last so that you guys can clean up with the communications guy says. No, I think, yeah, obviously this is a very important question. I mean, the Holy Spirit, he's one of the persons of the Trinity. And God wants to know us better, and he wants us to know him better. And I think that this exploration, which is why I was so interested in the sermon series that Pastor Roger has been going through, that exploration is important to really anyone's walk. Certainly someone who's accepted Christ into their heart. If you want to get to know God better, then this is an important topic to be diving into and learning more about what the scriptures say. So, no, I think this is great. I feel like we just scratched the surface and there's so much more to talk about, but thank you Pastor Roger [crosstalk].

Peter Englert: So, as I was thinking, what would Jesus say about this? And I was trying to just reflect on every big decision in my life, and I don't think that I've ever made a big decision that, when I prayed about it, that I look back and I regret, even if the results were bad. So probably the last biggest decision was moving to Rochester to marry my wife, prayed a lot about it, didn't land at Browncroft right away. Basically, I kind of pushed aside my career goals just to move here for my wife. Now, I know we just asked that question, I'm not telling you have to move for your wife, you've got to follow Holy Spirit. But the point is, is that in these big decisions, I felt like they were really bathed in prayer.

Peter Englert: And when we say that, like I was praying, the people around me were praying, they were giving me advice. Where I get tripped up are the little decisions that I didn't pray. And Jesus makes this comment about us being, gives us this picture about the vine in the branches, about being so close to him. And you're right, to call Jesus and the Holy Spirit, and God the Father, a person, is just helpful because we say things like we don't feel it. And I was even thinking about this, I don't always feel close to my wife.

Roger Breedlove: Right, right, right.

Peter Englert: We're in the same room, but I've got a crying one year old, and I've got a four year old that wants to do something, like put together a thousand piece puzzle. I don't always feel close, but that doesn't mean that they're not there.

Roger Breedlove: Exactly.

Peter Englert: And so as I'm kind of leaving this question, why can't I feel the Holy Spirit in my life, are there times that God has invited himself into our lives that we're not seeing? Or have we not invited him in? And I think that's kind of where you're pushing us, is to kind of get beyond that, and so I just think that's powerful.

Roger Breedlove: Absolutely. I think that if I had to just share, with just the last thing, is that if we can practice coming to an end of ourselves, because if we practice coming to an end of ourselves, and if I say to the Holy Spirit, every morning, "Holy Spirit, I just ask that you lead me and guide me this day. Father, your word declares that my tongue is the pen of a ready writer. So I ask that you allow me to write those things that you would have for me to write." And that's what it is, just invite them in.

Roger Breedlove: The results will always come out if we just invite them in. I think what happens, a lot of time, we just don't invite them in, and so that's why what we have some different things going on in our life. But I just, as you said earlier, Peter, you invited them in, you bathed it in prayer, from the standpoint of moving here. All the other thing, the little things, that's small, insignificant, but if we do the number one thing, just invite him in. There's more than one way that God can do what he does. And so, thank you guys so very much for inviting me.

Peter Englert: So where can people find you online? Or if they're looking for you?

Roger Breedlove: Of course, In Christ New Hope Ministry, 155 Pinnacle Road, the town of Henrietta. Our services, Wednesday service, 12 noon Bible class. We have Sunday morning service, of course. It starts at 10:30. And YouTube, Facebook, Twitter. I think that's about it.

Peter Englert: That's all good.

Roger Breedlove: Yeah.

Peter Englert: Well, thank you so much. Madell, hank you, so much for being here. We love having a live audience, so there we go.

Roger Breedlove: Awesome.

Peter Englert: You can find us at whygodwhypodcast.com. The best way to get ahold of us is to subscribe to our email, you can get this episode and other excellent episodes. Thank you so much for joining us.