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Record Live is a conversation about life, spirituality and following Jesus in the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
Hi there, everyone. I'm Jarrod Stackelroth. And I'm Zanita Fletcher. We are your hosts of Record Live, a podcast where we talk about church, faith, and living well. We believe as
followers of Jesus, faith is more than just a set of beliefs. It's a way of life, something we put into practice.
Let's go live.
It's been a couple of weeks since we've done a live one. , but we're here again with you and it's exciting to be here, Juliana Muniz.
My co host for today. It's amazing to have you join us. , Juliana is the news editor at Adventist record and she is stepping in for Zenita today, so we appreciate you doing that.
It's great. You're welcome Zenita.
Yes, Zanita is traveling the world. So we wish her all the best and safe travels.
And we can't wait to see her when she gets back safely.
Dr. Danijela Shubert also joins us today. Danijela, it's great to have you.
You have been, a women's ministry director at the South Pacific Division, but you've done all sorts of other things. You've worked at Pacific Adventist University. In Pakistan as well for a time. You've got varied experiences,, grew up in Europe, so you bring, a European background as well, and have a lot of amazing stories, which is why we wanted to talk to you today.
So first of all, welcome to the show.
Thank you. It's good to be with you. And, yes, you are correct with all of those things.
Daniella, we, , decided to interview you today because you've recently. released a book. It's called The Green Dress and I like the subtitle and other parables from my life.
So,. First of all, congratulations. It's always exciting to have something. come out and, to publish it. But we have some connection to record with some of these stories. I know we've printed a couple of them in record along the years in the lead up to you putting together this compilation.
And I've always really enjoyed your stories. So tell us a little bit about the process of getting the book together and where the idea, perhaps what the idea of the book was before you started it.
Okay. quite a few years ago, when I shared some things from my life, people would tell me you have to write a book.
And I was like, Oh, yeah, yeah. Who wants to write a book? You know, why write a book? And you have all these doubts in your mind. And then, those kind of comments kept coming, you should write a book. So, there was one day , when, I really struggled, do I write a book or not? , and I found the answer why I need to write a book.
I just need to write it down. , that was it. You write it down, you write the stories from your life, and then we will deal with the rest later on. And so when I decided that I just started writing stories from my life from beginning and just kept writing and I wrote about 100 and something pages of raw material, and then and then I was a little bit stuck.
I thought, so now what now? What do I do with them? Because in that format, that was not publishable. So yeah, I talked with some people and, and meanwhile, also, , the women's ministry in general conference, they asked me to write a few stories, which was short format like that. And I thought, maybe, so that's how I decided, , last year,, I just, , just about this time I said, that's it.
enough putting this off. I am putting down a plan. So I wrote down this is what I'm going to do. It will be this many stories. This is the timeline. In this time, I'm going to complete this and that and the other. And by November this year, it's going to be printed. And it was all, my plan. I had no idea whether it's going to come out or not.
And so It did. It did. Amazing.
I had a look at your book. I read a couple of stories. Is there any story that stands out or that is more endearing to you or that you like the most?
Oh, that's a hard question to answer. Yeah, they're all... Stories from my life and really, now that the book is out, I'm saying to myself, what have you done, Danny? You have opened up your life in such a way, now people will know so much about you that they didn't know. It's a bit scary, you know? Yeah, I don't know, , maybe the one with the queen of Tonga, is one that is... Amazing. I went to see the queen. Wow.
So Daniela, the book is 52 chapters in its final form. Was the intention and I think it's kind of devotional sort of style. And if you're watching us, I'll plug this now, but you have to watch till the end.
We're giving a code away today. If you get the code, you can use it to get Daniela's book for 10 percent off. So keep watching the interview. But it's sort of a 52 chapter devotional, so one a week throughout the year. Is that sort of the intention?
And then there's some questions to reflect on personally, at the end of each chapter. Was that the plan?
Yes. Yes, that was the plan.
I have a bit of a weakness, you know, when it comes to doing something every single day. So I have, quite a few devotionals, which are one every day, and I find that I read first 20 and then somehow I get lost and something else takes over. And then I feel a bit even guilty, I should be reading this every day, .
So I thought, no, let's try something once a week. So, I had in mind that it would be really nice if a few people go together, , and then read a book, and then there is, questions for reflection, and that can bring a lot of conversation, thinking, introspection, you can do it by yourself, or you can, you can do it in a group, , and then, of course,, I was thinking, some people really need to do something with their hands while they are, , reading or listening to others and so there is a picture which you can color in while somebody is reading.
So you make your book really yours. Nice and colorful. , So yeah, that was on purpose to be a book, maybe to read through one here. And, , and see what kind of year that will be. , I think it could be an amazing year when you ask those questions reflect. Maybe many of those things would be something you have not thought before. I'm hoping it will open the door to some big changes in people's lives.
, as I said, I've read some of the stories in your book and I resonated with, , a few of them because I also faced hardships growing up. , my father passed away when I was a baby, so I could only count on my mom. One thing that I learned from all those hardships is that we can actually learn something from them, even if it takes us many, many years to actually learn the lesson.
But hardship, hardships can also strengthen our faith and depend, dependence on God. In those moments. it's actually in those moments that we witness miracles. What advice would you give to someone struggling to maintain faith during hard times?
Just keep, keep your faith. Just hang in there.
It's easy to give up, and sometimes we can be really tempted to, to give up. There is a, the Bible verse, which has been at the back of my mind a lot, throughout my life. , I think it's in, in Luke, where the question is posed, when Jesus comes back. Is he going to find faith? And my answer was always, Yes, Jesus, I want you to find faith in my life.
So throughout the life sometimes, you can lose faith when your life is really good,, when you have it all. And then again, there is another text that comes to mind from the Pentateuch which says,, when you get settled in the new land and you have Milk and honey. Everything is flowing.
Will you remember God then? So in both parts of life Sometimes in hardship sometimes in doing really well, you can forget God, but we need to keep that faith. Keep faith
Hmm. I really like that It's a good reminder for all of us. You said this Daniel in talking about your book I believe that God works in our lives But unless we are paying attention, we might not notice what he is doing.
So in many ways, , some of the things in your book, they're not all the big dramatic events of life. Some of them are just everyday. scenarios where you're paying attention to what God is saying, which is another neat angle that the book takes. But how do we attune ourselves? And you've done ministry, you've done the theological studies, you've been in this space, you've been seeking God.
As many of your stories show, how do we tune ourselves better to find God in the everyday spaces? How do we actually have that orientation or that attitude to be open to God and what he's doing in our everyday lives?
You make yourself available to God and you say to God, I am here. I'm available. Use me the way you want to use me. , , that's something that I, that I did, when my life started being transformed. So I grew up, in an Adventist family from my mom's side. Dad was an alcoholic. My brother was an alcoholic too.
So it was a difficult family to grow up in. And, and I did grow up in an Adventist family, but it was in my later 20s that I realized, I am not who I want to be. And I don't know God the way that I was. I, I should know him and I was really desperate. , I, I didn't, I couldn't live anymore that way.
And I remember I wrote a letter to God and I said, God, do whatever you need to do. I am giving you full reign of my life. Just change me. I can't live like this anymore. , and then. I would, I was just amazed to see how God was changing me, and that started the journey. , so I, I would suggest that, that's probably the way to go. Just let go. Take care of your life.
Open yourself to God. Give him the permission to work in your life and then ask God, please open my eyes to see. And God does those things. Some people might. Little things, sometimes it's big things. And I just love to continue to be amazed.
Some people might think, maybe there's a misconception if I do that, if I make that choice and give myself to God, then life will be, I guess, smooth or easy. Not all of the stories in your book work out that way. First step. Give yourself to God. Fine. Fully on board with that. What happens next? What happens when the rubber hits the road?
Things get a little bit dicey. , do you have an illustration even from your book that, that is an example of, okay, what do we do when life with God seems difficult? God maybe seems distant. I've given myself to God, but where is God in this scenario?
I would just say, hang in there, just hang in there. , sometimes, especially in this fast paced world, we want instant answers. We want things to change straight away. But it is really often only when you look back in your life that you can say, ah, that's what it was. I'm so glad I hang in there. Because you see how God has led you in this way, and how you have matured as a person, how you have become a so much better person than what you were, and, , and how God has used those previous experiences to, to help you, , with the new ones that are coming up, and how he has helped you to minister to others.
, so... Yeah, I would say just hang in there. Keep, keep faith. Keep hanging there. Trust God. It will become clearer. Things will become clearer. Things will change. And just like even the last. Two months. I am completely amazed at how things have changed in, in our lives. So hang in there. ,
one of the stories that I think stands out a lot is the one that Jared mentioned that we featured in Record a while ago, Doctor, You Saw My Angel., it's kind of like a miraculous story. Can you share a little bit? with us about that.
Yes. So I grew up with that story. My mom shared it with me so many times.
, but it's really only after she passed away that I thought, man, I should write this story down. And so I checked also with my sister to make sure that we know all the details. It is a story. that changed my mom's life, my life, our family's life. She was asking, for a disability pension because she was disabled.
But the doctor would not let her have. , , support. He support. , we don't quite know why. It could be that because he was just, , , in communist government and she was a believer. But anyway, eventually she asked, children and also some church members to pray for this and they prayed and fasted.
And, , and then on the day when she went to see the, this , committee that was going to decide, her doctor just spoke well,, for her in to, for her to get the pension. And she was of course heavy, but she was like shocked. He said, I'm never going to do this. And so the next day when she went to get the paperwork from him, , it was him who said, I don't know what came upon me.
I said I will not speak, but I spoke this way. And so my mom asked, so why did you? And then he told her the story that the night before the committee met, he went to bed to sleep. And. Just about to fall asleep, somebody touched him , on the shoulder and said, What about the situation of this lady, Mrs.
Bratulic? And it was a shiny big person in his room, he got really scared. , and then the person disappeared. And then he was about to fall asleep again, and again this person touched him again, woke him up, and said, What about the situation with Mrs. Bratulic? And that happened over and over and over again, and he did not sleep one minute that night.
And on the day, he just could not do anything else but speak the truth. And so he did, and my mom was amazed. You have seen my angel! This is amazing! So yeah, and from that time on, my mom was able to get this pension, and that was a secure money that she could count on, and she was very frugal, and she managed to keep our family afloat, she managed to pay my school fees.
Yeah, I mean, and there are others angel stories, that I'm going to share with you some other time. Well,
this is, this is just a teaser, I guess, if people want more of those sort of stories, they get to get the book., I'm interested in the power of story, obviously, as a writer and someone who lives and deals with stories and reads stories, you know, just that influence, that early stories that we have access to, get told, , the influence they can make on our lives later.
, I'm not sure where my question lies, but it's sort of just, maybe reflect on that a little bit like the stories that we have and that we pass on really can be impactful in terms of a life. And I suppose in, in, in the Old Testament, we keep hearing the call to remember remember, I brought you out of Egypt.
Remember, I brought you out of slavery. Remember, you mentioned the one when I, when you get into the land, remember what I've done. Through the hutch. And I guess, it's good for us as Christians to be aware that these stories can have such impact in people's lives. And clearly, that's been your experience.
I don't know if you have anything to add or or you want to unpack a little bit more for us.
Definitely. The stories on one hand, the stories that my mom told me about her upbringing, , really made a huge impact on me and some parts of those stories. I only found out some other really interesting details much later.
, sometimes our parents cannot share everything with us until we can handle those other parts. , on the other hand, The stories from the Bible also,, have an impact on us. , there is one story which I share, about Moses, in this book, where I, talk about,, how we can have different ideas about stories in the Bible.
And sometimes what we grow up with, all of a sudden when we are adults, we see it from a totally different perspective. And sometimes we get shocked. with some of those things, and, we can, sometimes even lose faith. So I'm hoping that one of those stories that I, share in the book will help people to understand, huh, this is why It was said like that in this place, and, oh, that's why it was said this way in another place, and there is harmony.
But when we have a first look and when we first encountered some of those differences, we can be so shocked. What is this? It's very important to share stories. , I know that my mom shared the story of my birth with me almost every time I called her on the phone and it really helped me during some really difficult periods, , in my life.
When mom would tell me how she felt before , when she was pregnant and what happened to her and how she dedicated me to God. That story she just kept telling me over and over and over and it was a real blessing for me that she did that.
I think another way that we can, tell stories at least to ourselves or to remember them later is, through journaling and your book encourages journaling.
Is that a habit that you have and if so how does that help us in our spiritual journey?
Yes, I have been, writing for a while. I never thought of that as being journaling. , but, , I would write. Daniela's thoughts on such and such date, and sometimes I would go back and look at a few days or just one moment, in, in time, and it has helped me, to clarify something,, things, in fact, one of the reasons why I did that, was, So that I will have a point of reference when I compare my life now to how it was before because our memory sometimes can trick us.
And so it's really important to write right then when it's happening. , and then after a while, when you go back, you can see, Oh, my goodness, this is what it was. It completely changed in my mind. It's really important to write it. at the time. So yeah, I've been doing that for a while, not every day, just once in a while when I felt like it.
And then after a while I felt like, man, I'm only writing about negative things. So then I wrote something really positive so I can remember those things too. We, I think we tend to remember negative things much more than positive. So it's really important to write the positive things.
Just as
you're speaking, Daniela, I recognize the same tendency in myself. I don't tend to journal a lot, but I will take the paper and the pen out. And when I'm really at my wits end,, when it's dark and dire and difficult, I'm like, I need to get to it. It's cathartic in a way it gets it out of our system and it helps us to process and often they praise to God almost like, oh, this is the situation,, and so I can really resonate with that idea of, writing mainly the negative stuff, remembering mainly the negative stuff, but it seems like as you had that realization, you've now gone actually God shows up in the positive stuff too, or in the everyday stuff.
It's neither negative nor positive. It's just, Life as we know it and God is in those places. So we're identifying him and his presence there as, as we mentioned before,, getting better at that. I think we could all, get better at that.. Like
that story about spiders. It's one of those.
Very simple, something that we, we, notice, , on the way, if we are paying attention, , and then try to get something, that speaks to us, the way that God speaks to us through those things. , Yeah, I really like it. Also, one of the stories, , like Juliana said , I wrote for a whole year.
That's one of the few things that I did every single day, at least three positive things, something that brings me joy. And that was really helpful to me. So in one of the stories I, I share , what were the days. Were like with the most, joyful moments., and that was the year when my mom passed away.
And even on the day, and during the days, when, when we mourned, , her, I still was able to find at least two things that brought me joy, you know? So it's a great way to, to lead a much happier life and God wants us to have the best life. So, he wants us to be happy to enjoy life.
And we need to train ourselves, , , to see good things, , just open TV or newspaper, negative things sell. , and so they just keep telling you all these terrible things what are happening, but there is. It's much more wonderful things that are happening if you just open your eyes and see it.
Okay. We like to get practical on Record Live. So what can we do this week to find joy or see God in the everyday?
Well, ask God, first of all, maybe to show you if you are not used to doing that. , ask God to show you, reflect, what is it that brings me joy? We all like certain things, and reflect, what is it, where, when is it that you are the happiest? And then try to look for those things, and then expand that.
You can write down, some of those things,, that bring you joy., write them down, and then try to find something else the next day. Try to be open and see how God will open. Your eyes to see to enjoy, life and to be happy and when you are happy and when you are filled with joy, then that bubbles up and spills to other people.
And other people are really happy to, , to mix with people , who are happy, who give them positive energy, , who encourage them. Nobody wants , to be put down and it's hard to be with someone who is , really sad. And I, I know because I was one of those people too.
I hope I have answered the question.
Yeah, I, I think for me, something that I will take away this conversation, from this conversation, what you were saying about,, passing it on to our children. I've always been aware of the emphasis to remember in the Bible. And that we should be passing the stories on because they're powerful.
, but I've got two little kids at home, , obviously in an age appropriate way, but God's moved in my life and it's, this is the first time I've sort of thought, okay, my daughter's three and a half, going on four soon. Maybe I can start telling her some of these God's stories in absolutely in a sense in her life.
She's our miracle baby. You know, we had a lot of trouble before she came along and God showed us through people's prayers and through his presence that, miracles can happen. And I just, when you were saying your mom kept sharing those stories and every time she would remind you of that, it just made me think How can I be intentional in my own family's life to pass on the legacy of faith in, in the every day that we lead?
So thank you for that gift. I will take that away this week for myself to be practical in a sense. The moment we've all been waiting for, if you'd like Julianne,, if you'd like Daniela's book, The Green Dress. You can go to the Adventist Book Center websites, the Adventist book Center, and if you use the code record live, no spaces, no caps, , just record live.
I'll put it in the comments so you can see record live. You can get a discount on this book. And as we've heard, we've had a taste of some of the stories. I've read some of the stories, I've edited some of the stories that have been in record before the book project even came to existence. So, I know some of these stories are worth reading and worth your time and your money.
So, have a look at the Green Dress on Advanced Book Centers. Hey Daniela, it's really been a pleasure to hear some of your stories. Thank you for your heart, for sharing some of those stories, and I pray that people get a blessing from this book as they read it, that they will be practically impacted for the kingdom.
I hope so too.
Well thanks everyone for joining us , but until then, God bless, stay safe, and we'll see you next week. Bye!