Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Ministry Wives & Women is a podcast for ministry wives and women seeking encouragement, spiritual depth, and honest conversation for the journey of faith. everyday life, and the challenges of church leadership. Hosted by Andrea Griffith, each episode offers thoughtful wisdom, real stories, and gospel-centered hope to help women live with greater resilience, authenticity, and grace in every season.
[00:00] [Katie Gallo] If we aren't trying to impress somebody else, and we're more looking at life through the humility lens, knowing that we're pleasing the Lord, you're a lot less offended.
[00:11] [Andrea Griffith] Welcome to the Ministry Wives& Women podcast. This is a place where we openly address the challenging realities of ministry and point one another to Jesus and the gospel. Whether you're thriving, barely holding on, or somewhere in between, you are not alone. I'm Andrea Griffith. Each episode brings honest conversations, biblical encouragement, and stories from women who understand this calling. This podcast is part of The Church Hub, where we're committed to strengthening ministry leaders and the families who walk with them. We're so glad you're here. If you've been joining us this year, you have heard us hit All kinds of topics on resiliency. We've talked about resiliency in waiting, or in storms, or in what do we do when ministry and life is just super hard? How do you get up and just keep on going? So we are wrapping up season 1 talking about resiliency. And I have 2 of my very good friends back in the studio today.
[01:20] [Shannon O'Bryan] Yay!
[01:20] [Andrea Griffith] We have Katie Gallo and Shannon O'Brien. And Katie and Shannon have already done a podcast with me on subjects, but I just thought it'd be super fun to have us all in the studio. And one thing that we did not say in our other podcast about Katie and Shannon is that they are sisters.
[01:40] [Katie Gallo] Yep.
[01:41] [Andrea Griffith] Yeah. So tell us just a little bit about that.
[01:44] [Shannon O'Bryan] Well, you can guess which one's the oldest.
[01:50] [Andrea Griffith] No, you really can't.
[01:51] [Shannon O'Bryan] We're practically twins, just born 5 years apart.
[01:55] [Katie Gallo] I'm younger. I just want that to be known.
[02:01] [Shannon O'Bryan] Now that we're older, people get us mixed up. And it's actually really funny.
[02:05] [Katie Gallo] My kids also can't believe that we're 5 years apart. It is. I was like, well, I mean, I remind them, I'm like, you guys are 5 years apart. See that? That's the same age as Shannon and I are apart. And they're like, what? How? Yeah, because we're so similar. And our kids are also— we were, we had, we were pregnant together 3 different times.
[02:23] [Andrea Griffith] Oh my goodness.
[02:24] [Katie Gallo] So 3 of our kids were born within the same year. And then we had one of the gap, one, one that was one year Yeah, she was— she has her own year to herself.
[02:34] [Andrea Griffith] You guys, that is so fun.
[02:36] [Shannon O'Bryan] It is really fun.
[02:37] [Andrea Griffith] I bet that makes—
[02:38] [Shannon O'Bryan] And that's not something you expect when— I mean, when you're a kid and you're 5 years apart, it does feel like, oh, we're like not in the same sphere, we're not in the same group. But as we've gotten older, it's been such a blessing to be in the same seasons of life together.
[02:50] [Katie Gallo] Yeah, it is. And the cousins are besties.
[02:53] [Andrea Griffith] That's what I was gonna say.
[02:54] [Katie Gallo] And my brother has one that's the same age as one of our kids too. So it works out.
[02:58] [Andrea Griffith] It's really fun. Thanksgivings and Christmases must be so fun.
[03:01] [Katie Gallo] Very loud.
[03:03] [Andrea Griffith] Very loud.
[03:05] [Katie Gallo] That's the truth. Yes, especially when they were young.
[03:07] [Andrea Griffith] So let me just ask you guys this. You are sisters, obviously, you grew up in the same family. You both have just given your lives to ministry. What would you say your parents did well to prepare in you or to create in you a heart of just like, I want to live my life for Jesus, no matter what that looks like? Whether, like you, Shannon, have been on the field as a missionary, Katie, you as a pastor's Like, what's underneath all of that that your parents did to kind of shape that? What would you say? Just because we're talking to moms who are raising kids that they want to have a heart for Jesus and the world. So what, what would you say were some things that your parents did to instill that?
[03:53] [Shannon O'Bryan] Um, sure. I mean, I think one of the things is that both of our parents, um, are true Christ followers. We weren't just churchgoers.
[04:02] [Andrea Griffith] Yeah.
[04:02] [Shannon O'Bryan] Um, although both of them did have the church in their lives at different times as children and young people. They really didn't maybe come to the Lord until a little bit later in life. I mean, not late, late, but, you know, older teenagers or, you know, young adults. And I think when they both really came to that place of being Christ followers, they realized, okay, this is a lifestyle. This is an everyday thing. This isn't just going to church on Sunday. And so—
[04:31] [Katie Gallo] For sure.
[04:31] [Shannon O'Bryan] And they married young. And started their family young and, um, all during, you know, like the Jesus Movement and that revival time. And so we were raised in a home that was very much of like, Jesus is our, um, someone that we have a personal relationship with. And it's like an everyday thing, not just a Sunday or a Wednesday night.
[04:54] [Andrea Griffith] So I heard you say one, just their authenticity, like they just love Jesus and followed him.
[05:00] [Shannon O'Bryan] Yes.
[05:00] [Andrea Griffith] And they just taught, this is not a 1 day out of 7 thing. This is every day. We have Jesus right here with us. And so every day we're talking to Him. Yeah, that's great. What would you say, Katie?
[05:12] [Katie Gallo] I would, of course, agree with Shannon, and then their intentionality of getting us involved with other groups as well. We went— we did go to church on Sundays and Wednesdays and were involved in serving. It wasn't just we would go, but we would serve. And we would serve many times as a family, whatever my parents were doing, They made sure that we were involved in that. It wasn't like, you know, pushing us aside, but drawing us in to what that looked like. So, I mean, we really knew the people they were serving as well, because they were in our home, and we were going to the groups. And so that was very intentional of them, and not always easy, as kids aren't. And also, in our older teen years, we started going to something called Precept Ministries up in Chattanooga.
[05:57] [Shannon O'Bryan] Chattanooga.
[05:57] [Katie Gallo] And Kay Arthur was— had a huge impact on our family. And even going up to Chattanooga, Chattanooga, we— that's kind of what we did for our trips. So we didn't have it. We don't have a lot of family vacations. But we have— I mean, we went to Precept in the winter, in the spring, and then summer camp.
[06:16] [Andrea Griffith] Wow.
[06:17] [Katie Gallo] So since we were teenagers up through college, and, and so that really solidified just the Word of God in our lives. So it was the Holy Spirit and, and intentionality within your local church and serving the body of Christ, having people in your home, being hospitable, and then Knowing the Word, so that when you are sent out, you're not sent out floundering because you don't know what the Word says. But so I think that they sacrificed a lot in those years to pour into us, to make sure that we left equipped.
[06:52] [Andrea Griffith] And you guys know how to study your Bibles. And that is what gets us through everything. We open our Bibles every day, and God's God speaks, you know, and it's so interesting to me how nothing out there can change, but everything in my heart changes from hearing from God. And it's like, I can keep going. I can take another step forward because God is with me and God has spoken to my heart. I've heard him. I've got my marching orders. And sounds like your parents just really prioritized that.
[07:26] [Shannon O'Bryan] Yeah.
[07:27] [Andrea Griffith] So you would be equipped.
[07:28] [Katie Gallo] I agree.
[07:29] [Andrea Griffith] To have that all the days of your life, which—
[07:32] [Katie Gallo] Yeah, they're still serving the Lord.
[07:33] [Andrea Griffith] Absolutely.
[07:35] [Shannon O'Bryan] Yeah.
[07:36] [Katie Gallo] Which is just neat, even for the grandkids.
[07:38] [Andrea Griffith] Yeah.
[07:38] [Katie Gallo] The grandkids are seeing it too.
[07:40] [Andrea Griffith] Yeah, I love that. What a legacy. That's really great. So we've been talking about resiliency, and you guys have been talking with me a little bit about how are you resilient in relationships. And we kind of established the fact in the last podcast that ministry's messy, that we're all wounded and we all wound, that we have beauty in us, and we also have Because God has redeemed us, but we're not fully redeemed yet. And so because of that, we, we just bump into each other. You know, we have thoughts of how we think things should go. Other people have thoughts of how they think it should go. And there can just be friction. We bring our past in. We bring, um, the way our, our brains, the way they're wired, and it's just different. And sometimes it can create some conflict.
[08:34] [Katie Gallo] Yeah.
[08:34] [Andrea Griffith] But you guys have done ministry for years. So just continuing that theme of resilience in relationships, I'd love to just ask you guys, what role have you seen humility play in building gospel-centered resilience in your closest relationships? How does having that humility— I just feel like it's the oil that smooths everything out.
[09:03] [Katie Gallo] Mm-hmm.
[09:03] [Andrea Griffith] Where have you guys seen humility at work?
[09:05] [Shannon O'Bryan] No, I absolutely agree. I think humility is really key. And just recognizing that we don't, we don't know everything. We don't know.
[09:17] [Andrea Griffith] We don't know. We don't know.
[09:19] [Katie Gallo] The longer I live, the more I realize that.
[09:21] [Andrea Griffith] Yes, we do not know everything.
[09:24] [Shannon O'Bryan] For sure.
[09:24] [Andrea Griffith] For sure.
[09:25] [Shannon O'Bryan] And I think, especially when You're, I think, recognizing that most people aren't trying to ruin your life.
[09:34] [Katie Gallo] Yes.
[09:35] [Andrea Griffith] Yeah. Especially even people in ministry.
[09:37] [Shannon O'Bryan] Especially in ministry. Like, I worked a lot with young people, with Youth With A Mission. You know, a lot of our people who would be coming through were young adults. And, but yet they were coming from different backgrounds, different cultures from all over the world. And besides the different personality types, or different birth order, or whatever other things you want to mix in there that causes differences in the way we see things and perceive things.
[09:58] [Andrea Griffith] Right.
[09:59] [Shannon O'Bryan] Yeah. And all of these young people are coming because they want to know God more. They want to make him known. And, and we're trying to form teams out of these people. And, um, and so, so often you would see offenses happening. And one of my favorite things to remind people is like, they're not trying to ruin your life.
[10:16] [Andrea Griffith] Yeah.
[10:17] [Shannon O'Bryan] Like, they want the same thing you want. They're just looking at it through different lenses. And so I would give the example of like, if we were looking at you know, a yellow piece of paper in the center, and I have on red lenses, and she has on blue lenses, we're both going to say that yellow piece of paper is 2 different colors.
[10:39] [Andrea Griffith] Right.
[10:40] [Shannon O'Bryan] Me with my red lenses, I'm gonna say that's orange.
[10:42] [Andrea Griffith] Right.
[10:42] [Shannon O'Bryan] For sure it's orange. How can you not see it as orange? It's absolutely orange. And she with her blue lenses is—
[10:47] [Katie Gallo] Green.
[10:48] [Andrea Griffith] Going to say green.
[10:49] [Shannon O'Bryan] Yeah, you know, let's have a little color analogy, color wheel analogy. But no, and both, neither of us are right. Honestly, the paper's yellow. Yellow.
[11:01] [Andrea Griffith] Yes, yes.
[11:02] [Shannon O'Bryan] And so just to try to really look at something from someone else's point of view and perspective.
[11:07] [Andrea Griffith] So good.
[11:07] [Shannon O'Bryan] We actually even have an activity that we do where we have to trade shoes with someone. And literally, you know, but as an analogy. And so obviously, you could put shoes on that are way too small or way too big. And that's obviously so, so hard to walk in. But even if you put on shoes of someone who happens to be the same size as you, you know, their shoe may be, you know, worn in the way that they walk, or maybe your shoe is a higher quality shoe than theirs is. So even if you have the same size of shoe, you're like, we're both from America, we're both from Florida, we're from the same family. And yet we still don't see things exactly the same. Yeah.
[11:52] [Andrea Griffith] And not only do we not know it all, we don't even know what's best.
[11:55] [Shannon O'Bryan] No.
[11:56] [Andrea Griffith] There's only one who knows what's best.
[11:58] [Shannon O'Bryan] Yeah.
[11:58] [Andrea Griffith] And so that humility—
[12:00] [Shannon O'Bryan] We just have to recognize that.
[12:02] [Andrea Griffith] Yes.
[12:02] [Shannon O'Bryan] You know, and constantly remind ourselves of like walking in humility, walking in empathy, really trying to see and understand where that other person's coming from.
[12:10] [Andrea Griffith] Yeah, yeah.
[12:11] [Katie Gallo] I always think that if we aren't trying to impress somebody else, and we're, and we're more looking at life through the humility lens, knowing that we're pleasing the Lord, you're a lot less offended. Because, you know, it's not that there are going to be people that offend you because that they're things happen, and even unintentional things. But I think when we lower ourselves and know what— why we're doing the purpose that we're doing, then we aren't so quick to have that wall and that offense up. Because we're like, I am so sorry, what, you know, how can I make this better? Or you, you can say, I didn't realize. I'm, you know, and so it's much easier to apologize when you're not trying to be something that— a perception that other people are looking at you a certain way.
[13:07] [Andrea Griffith] Yeah. When you're talking about that, it reminds me, so I used to teach fitness classes, and I really miss it. But as I would go in to teach the fitness class, a lot of times the mindset that I tried to put on was, I can be afraid of these people, like, at first, you know, you're going in, you're new at doing this. And I had to switch my mindset to, I'm just here to serve them.
[13:30] [Katie Gallo] Yeah.
[13:30] [Andrea Griffith] I'm just here to serve them. I've got to understand some of the hangups that they have, or everyone's body is different. And so, you know, they may have some limitations that other people don't have. And so how can I come in and really see this person, and then serve them well?
[13:52] [Katie Gallo] Yeah.
[13:52] [Andrea Griffith] Through this avenue. And I feel like that really applies, you know, with ministry. Another thing that has helped me— have you guys ever heard the quote from C.S. Lewis that says, you've never met a mere mortal? He says, everyone you've met will one day either be the most beautiful creature you've ever seen in eternity with God, or the most hideous monster Mm-hmm. Living apart from God, but none of us have ever met a mere mortal. And so, that just helps me so much place such high value on people. You know, when you think of that, like, I am in the presence of someone that's gonna live forever, that has just these amazing qualities that maybe I can't totally see, but God can see. And one day in eternity, I'm gonna get to see 'em.
[14:46] [Shannon O'Bryan] Yeah.
[14:46] [Andrea Griffith] So, how am I gonna treat this person? Because they're not just a mere mortal, you know, it just brings the honor, I think.
[14:54] [Katie Gallo] Yes. I remember just that the thoughts of vulnerability, because people don't relate with your successes many times, they relate with your failures, not like you need to overshare. But that when you are speaking to somebody, and you know that you do want to have an impact on them for eternity, that you don't have to go up with this like, You know, puffed up, kind of like, you know, do you know who I am? Do you know who I know? Kind of, because I mean, I think even within ministry, people like to name drop.
[15:25] [Shannon O'Bryan] We do.
[15:25] [Katie Gallo] And so it's, it's not— it's like, name drop Jesus. And then talk, you know, genuinely ask questions about them, and then listen. And then if there's something you can relate with, even if it's something that is a hard, vulnerable place in your life, that's gonna speak volumes to them more than like, oh, you know, I don't really struggle with that.
[15:44] [Andrea Griffith] Drop that waterline. Be honest. That's what we all— we're all broken. Yes, we all need each other to reveal those broken pieces and places. Shannon, you were mentioning a little bit about empathy. How has that played a part for you in relationships?
[16:02] [Shannon O'Bryan] Well, I mean, like I said, I think, you know, realizing that I haven't walked in their shoes, you know, and I don't know everything that, that they have experienced, that this person that I'm, you know, having friction with right now. I don't know what just happened, you know, 5 minutes before at the house or whatever it is. And I think something that someone taught me besides trying to see things through their viewpoint or, and really asking the Holy Spirit for that clarity of lenses, because we all wear our own lenses too, of course. I mean, the Holy Spirit's the only one that has actual clear lenses and who can give us that true clarity.
[16:40] [Andrea Griffith] Yes.
[16:42] [Shannon O'Bryan] But also the idea of looking for the gold. I, you know, you were implying that, but like really digging for the gold in that person and being like, okay, wait a minute, like this person who's really rubbing me the wrong way right now, or who I feel maybe offended by or unseen by or misunderstood, you know, I'm trying to bring something good and you're coming at me, you know, whatever it is to just think, okay, wait a minute. Where are they coming from, you know, and, and really look for the gold. Like, okay, they're frustrating me or they're hurting me. But, you know, I know they're not an awful, terrible person, you know, and like, thinking, okay, where, where, where am I? Where's the disconnect? You know, where am I missing something? And slowing down. And instead of getting my feathers in a ruffle and being like, you know, defending myself or, you know, getting offended, um, being like, okay. I understand that we're not communicating here. Please help me understand.
[17:39] [Andrea Griffith] Yeah, I understand there's a gap.
[17:41] [Shannon O'Bryan] Yes.
[17:41] [Andrea Griffith] Can we fill in this gap?
[17:43] [Shannon O'Bryan] Yeah.
[17:44] [Andrea Griffith] So I have a story of when I just totally did it wrong, guys. I have lots of those stories.
[17:52] [Katie Gallo] We all do.
[17:52] [Andrea Griffith] Yes, I have lots of those stories. There was a time that I had a person in my church come and say to me, This lady— you have hurt this lady in the church, and she and her husband are going to come and talk to you about it. And I was like, oh my goodness. And they had specifics. It actually had to do with another person. And this other person, I felt like we had tried to love so— I mean, we had bent over backwards to try to love this person. Like, we'd given, we'd taken meals, we had— I felt like I was like—
[18:33] [Katie Gallo] I know.
[18:33] [Andrea Griffith] I really don't know what else to do. And if this person over here is saying that we're doing a bad job of loving this person over here, guys, I'm, I'm done. I don't know what else to do. Well, the problem was the person that said they were going to come and talk to us because we were mistreating this other person, they never came.
[18:54] [Katie Gallo] Hmm.
[18:55] [Andrea Griffith] And so every time I would go to church, I would see that person, and they were very prominent, like they were in leadership, you know, they were up on the platform. And so, every time I'd look at them, and I would think, they have a problem with me, they have a problem with me, they have a problem with me. And I'm shrinking, I'm shrinking, I'm shrinking, instead of, you know, assuming the best, and even saying, well, maybe I haven't even heard the situation right. Because if they really had a problem with me, they probably would come and talk to me.
[19:26] [Katie Gallo] Right.
[19:26] [Andrea Griffith] But it was like, And I wasn't humble enough to just go and say, hey, I've heard this. Could we just talk it out? You know, what's going on? My husband was telling me not to go and talk about it. So, I'm trying to, you know, stay under, you know, it's just so difficult. And so, there's this internal battle going on that maybe no one else sees, you know?
[19:53] [Katie Gallo] Yeah.
[19:53] [Andrea Griffith] And you're like, I don't know You know, going back, what should I have done there? Where should I have stepped? Where's a safe place to step? And you just watch yourself internally, all the stress, all this angst, and you either fight it, or like me, you withdraw, you know, and neither one is a good answer.
[20:13] [Katie Gallo] Yeah.
[20:14] [Andrea Griffith] So where have you found the Gospel to help you in these relationships? You know, what Gospel truths have you stood on? that have brought the most endurance for you, the most, I can keep going because this is true, because of the Gospel?
[20:34] [Katie Gallo] Well, I would say first, don't be that person that didn't show up, you know, to your meeting. If, you know, to the listeners that are saying, maybe I have a problem with somebody, and then bailing at the last minute because they didn't want conflict, but then just leaving it uncomfortable.
[20:48] [Andrea Griffith] Yeah, just hanging there.
[20:49] [Katie Gallo] It's awful. Because also, yeah, whether you're a leader or not, But that's not really the right thing to do for anybody. So I'm— I just wanted to say, like, you know, that person did you wrong. Not to say that we can't always learn on our side, but I also think that that should have been handled on their part.
[21:05] [Andrea Griffith] I have a lot to learn. Like, looking back now, I wish I had gone— like, I wish I'd gone to Trent first and appealed and said, hey, yeah, it's not getting resolved in my spirit.
[21:16] [Katie Gallo] Yeah.
[21:17] [Andrea Griffith] Is it okay if I go and talk to this person? Because I need resolution, you know. And I think And just like you guys have been saying, there was probably a really easy answer. Yeah, we probably just had on different lenses, you know, and there probably was an answer. But out of fear, whatever it was, I was afraid to make the situation worse.
[21:40] [Katie Gallo] Right.
[21:40] [Andrea Griffith] You know, but continue.
[21:42] [Katie Gallo] Well, I had a situation happen. It was, it was a few years ago, but it just got resolved recently. Yeah, that—
[21:51] [Andrea Griffith] And can I just say, That does happen sometimes. The scripture says, when possible, live at peace with all. And I think to normalize a little bit, like, I know you, I know you love Jesus, this person probably does too. And yet, sometimes it takes a while to find that resolution. So I just want to normalize that a little bit.
[22:16] [Katie Gallo] Well, for us, it had to do with a school that we went to that we left, and it was kind of on weird terms because of some disagreements with some decisions with my children. And I didn't really have to address it at the time, because we were the ones that were stepping aside and going somewhere else. But it is a Christian school. And this year, one of my students— one of my students, one of my kids that is a student there is back at that school. And I just felt like the Lord kept knocking on my heart and like, it's your job to find resolution. It's your job to reconcile.
[22:50] [Andrea Griffith] So good.
[22:50] [Katie Gallo] It's your job to bring back unity. And I kept being And I'm like, but Lord, I just kind of don't, you know, have to talk to her again, necessarily. But I also was like, you know— You can keep avoiding her. Yes, yes.
[23:05] [Andrea Griffith] You can keep withdrawing, like me.
[23:07] [Katie Gallo] Yes. So, but then I was like, well, what am I missing? Because she's a wonderful person. And it's okay. Sometimes it's okay to disagree with somebody, but be peaceful about it.
[23:19] [Andrea Griffith] Yes.
[23:19] [Katie Gallo] You know, it's like, again, as believers, like we wear different lenses. So she's wearing different lenses than I was wearing. And that's okay. Neither of us were in sin because of that. What the sinful part on my part was, is not choosing to resolve or to try to extend the olive branch and say, hey, you know, I just want you to know that I really care. I care about this school. I care about you. I'm thankful for your leadership. But I also feel awkward around you. And I just said what I meant. Because I said, I know that there was things that happened in the past—
[23:52] [Shannon O'Bryan] Yeah.
[23:53] [Katie Gallo] That we never really talked about. It just kind of got pushed under the rug. And I just want to say that That the Lord was in it. God has been faithful from— even though it was a really hard time for us, and there was some questioning in the waiting and questioning, understanding relationships, and maybe feeling pushed aside, that that's the time and the place that God wanted me to be to do his work in me. And so, I just— it was after I had this conversation, I felt like this weight was lifted off me.
[24:22] [Andrea Griffith] So nice.
[24:22] [Katie Gallo] And it had been on me for years, because I would just think like, man, I could have done better.
[24:29] [Andrea Griffith] Yeah.
[24:29] [Katie Gallo] And I just, it was, I felt obedient to what the Lord asked me to, but also just felt a peace of saying, okay, well, now when I see her, it's not awkward. And I said that, I was like, I don't want to, I don't hate you. I don't have bad feelings about you. The situation that happened was separate from this. And I'm okay with it. And I pray for you. And so she was, she's like, I see that. And she's like, thank you so much for just desiring unity and, you know, for praying for me. And she— so it— now, every time I've seen her, it's actually been normal. And I'm like, we've gotten back to just normal. Just when you see somebody and you can chat and you can— and we both love Jesus. But it was, as hard as it was, it was finally a release.
[25:17] [Andrea Griffith] Yeah, I love that. I love that story. See, this is why I bring guests on. I bring on the people that like do it right. You know?
[25:25] [Katie Gallo] No, I did not always do it right. Obviously, years. Did I say that? Years.
[25:28] [Shannon O'Bryan] Yeah. Well, and not to be the analogy bringer, but the analogy that I thought of when she was speaking is, um, is a mirror. And like, we are, as Christ followers, meant to reflect Christ in our love for one another. And when that disunity comes in, that mirror gets broken. And nobody wants to look at a reflection in a broken mirror. It's disorientating. It's ugly. It's, you know, it doesn't reflect well the person being looked at. And so what you did was almost like took that broken mirror and I said, let me get rid of this, and let's put a whole mirror back up again.
[26:05] [Andrea Griffith] Yeah.
[26:06] [Shannon O'Bryan] So that we can have that unity and reflect Christ better.
[26:09] [Katie Gallo] That's good.
[26:09] [Andrea Griffith] That's so good.
[26:10] [Shannon O'Bryan] I love that.
[26:10] [Andrea Griffith] So I heard a couple things. Like, one of the things you mentioned, we both love Jesus, and it's hard.
[26:17] [Katie Gallo] Yes.
[26:18] [Andrea Griffith] We both love Jesus, and we went through an awkward time. But 2 things. First, you heard the Lord saying to you, Katie, I want you to go and talk to her. Katie, go. So you obey the Lord, you listen for Him, and you obey Him. And then just obeying Matthew 18, you know, if there's a problem, go to the person and reconcile. And you did that. And just hearing the weight that was lifted, you know, and I think that's just that humility to go and that humility to say— because it could, it could go badly.
[26:55] [Katie Gallo] It could.
[26:55] [Andrea Griffith] But to have— say, okay, this is what the Lord asks of me, and I'm just going to be obedient, and I'm going to trust And trust him with the outcome, knowing that he's got us either way. Whether it gets messier before it gets better, or whether—
[27:12] [Katie Gallo] More broken.
[27:12] [Andrea Griffith] Yes, more broken.
[27:13] [Shannon O'Bryan] No, and that can happen. That's so true.
[27:14] [Katie Gallo] It can happen.
[27:15] [Andrea Griffith] Sometimes it gets a little messier. But just that heart to say, I love that person. This person is a sister in Christ or a brother in Christ. And so my aim, my goal is to reconcile, no matter what that looks like or how long it takes. That's my heart, is a heart of peace toward you.
[27:33] [Shannon O'Bryan] Yeah.
[27:33] [Andrea Griffith] In what areas of your relationships do you most need to rely on gospel resilience rather than your own strength? Like, how can we take this back just to God, back to the gospel?
[27:47] [Katie Gallo] I think reconciliation is my thought to tie it in with the gospel in the sense of, you know, reconciliation is taking 2 that were enemies and then becoming friends. So it's not just putting up with each other or just like being able to be in the same room, But it's actually a friendship. And that's what Jesus did. It's his blood reconciled us to God. And so that as we are called Christ followers, that as much as possible, I always go back to what you said, as much as possible, it lies within you, be at peace with all men. So if I have done my due diligence and put myself out there and apologized, or, you know, you can't always fix something.
[28:28] [Andrea Griffith] No.
[28:28] [Katie Gallo] But you can apologize and, and pray and ask for that person's forgiveness, whether or Whether or not they will give it to you is not on you. That's between them and the Lord. And so, but I can sleep on a soft pillow.
[28:42] [Shannon O'Bryan] Yeah.
[28:42] [Katie Gallo] And so that's where I'm like, Lord, thank you for the example that you desired to be reconciled to us through your Son. And so that confidence in who I am because of you is what I can extend to others. And then if it's not received, to know that I'm still called to do that obediently. And so because I think some— the confrontation, even though it's uncomfortable for a moment, I feel like it's better than a lifetime of avoidance.
[29:15] [Andrea Griffith] Yeah.
[29:16] [Katie Gallo] So momentary, you know, confrontation is better than whenever you see that person ducking behind the clothing rack or, you know, beside— behind the cereal at the store because you don't want to see them or them to see you. And, you know, it's like hit it head on. Because the outcome is in the Lord's hands. It's not in— your job is to be his daughter. And you can't fix beyond that. Even if you do see each other again, you don't have to avoid them because they know where you stand. You know, you're like, okay, hi, because you're happy.
[29:46] [Andrea Griffith] Yeah, we've tried.
[29:48] [Katie Gallo] Yes.
[29:48] [Andrea Griffith] And I think pushing it just one step further of even— I've sought forgiveness, I've asked, and there's still tension, it's still awkward. But because of Jesus's blood, I'm accepted with God.
[30:04] [Katie Gallo] Amen.
[30:04] [Andrea Griffith] I don't— I'm not the author of my story.
[30:07] [Katie Gallo] Yeah.
[30:08] [Andrea Griffith] And so, I'm not the one who's writing the people into my life. You know, the people that are placed around me, you know, out of all the millions of people on the planet, these are the people that God has brought around me, whether that's my family, or the people at my church, or the people doing ministry with me. God has a plan. Like, none of that is a mistake. He's not like, oh, I didn't mean for that person to be in her life. No, he's not up there saying that. Like, he knows every person and like, what's in you that I need to learn, you know, in me, or how together we're gonna walk each other home well, or even the, the hard things or the bad things, how that's going to affect me by pushing me into God because I need him. So just trusting, you know, God's intentional. He knows who he's brought in my life. And I can trust him no matter if it's going really well, or if it's really painful right now. I can trust the author of the story. Thank you guys for just being willing to talk through hard things. Like, it can be hard to come into a podcast and say, I'm going to talk about difficulty in relationships, because it brings stuff up.
[31:23] [Shannon O'Bryan] Yeah.
[31:24] [Andrea Griffith] Because we all have scars. We all have stories. We all have places where we're not fully healed. Just to be willing to press into that, because we all deal with it on a daily basis. And so thank you for coming and sharing your wisdom, just sharing out of your lives and talking about how we can go the distance and be resilient with the Lord in ministry, even when there's tension and hard things in relationships.
[31:50] [Katie Gallo] Thank you for your authenticity.
[31:52] [Shannon O'Bryan] Yeah, thank you for starting this conversation.
[31:55] [Andrea Griffith] It's really Thanks for joining us today. If you'd like to learn more about The Church Hub and how we're strengthening ministry leaders and the families who walk with them, you can visit thechurchhub.org. Until we meet again, I'll be praying that you experience the nearness of Jesus.