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On the road training schools in Trust-Based Observations trainings, we periodically see absolute teaching brilliance during our 20-minute observations. It dawned on us that we have an obligation to share this brilliance with all teachers so they can learn and grow from one another. Each episode is an interview with one of these teachers where we explore their strengths as they share their tips and tricks. Tips and tricks that definitely lead to improved teaching and learning.
Hi, and welcome to another edition of
20 Minutes of Teaching Brilliant on
the Road with Trust Based Observations.
I'm Craig Randall, and today I'm very
excited to have with me Rocio Avalos.
And Rocio, I was in Yakima about a
month ago, and she teaches first grade.
I won't tell you too much about
her, but it was an absolute
joy to walk her with me.
Watch her work her magic, particularly
her relationship and classroom
management magic with her kiddos.
So, Rocio, will you do me a favor and
introduce yourself and along with that,
tell the audience a little bit about
yourself, what you do, where you're at,
how long you've been there, how you got
into teaching, what We all want to know.
Well, thank you for having me.
my name is Rocio Avalos, as he said.
Uh, I have been teaching 35 years, all
35 years here at Whitney Elementary.
when I first went into
college, I went in for chemical
engineering because I loved math.
Algebra, um, Trigonometry, Calculus,
Chemistry, all of that stuff.
But my heart was always in teaching,
ever since I was in 6th grade.
So, I had to go that route.
and here I am, 35 years later.
I've had, uh, students of students.
So kids of students I had before.
Um, it's just, it's, it's
a great school to be at.
And I just absolutely love teaching.
thank you so much, Rossio.
So you, on one hand, you say you knew
you wanted to teach her in sixth grade,
but on the other hand, you're saying that
you wanted to be a chemical engineer.
You got to bridge that gap for me.
Well, it wasn't so much that I wanted to.
I was in a, I mean, I loved math and
chemistry, calculus, all those classes.
I was in a prep school, in Tacoma
and, I was very strong in those areas.
And so the teachers pushed me that way.
And I thought, well, it's not bad.
I love doing, I really, really
did love chemistry and calculus.
And, but as I went through my first
year and a half of college, I just kept
thinking, this is not what I want to do.
I don't know that my
parents were so excited.
I think chemical engineering is, is just
a little bit, More exciting, but, I've
just, I think I went into the right field.
I just love teaching.
I'm not sure chemical engineering is
more exciting than teaching, because
teaching is pretty exciting, but, but
it might have a label that seems more
prestigious or something like that, uh,
True.
but, so what happened in sixth grade,
though, that made you want to, like,
what was that first thing that you
Um, it was a teacher I had.
I went to school in San Francisco.
Um, and I had a teacher, Mrs.
Cowan in fourth grade, uh,
sixth grade and seventh grade.
I had, Two or three years, but she
was just a really good teacher and
really involved us in everything
that we did and and pushed us
To our max and I just it
was what she did for us
just something about her, just,
she, one, she pushed you, right?
And then, so you must have known
she cared about you too then.
Yes, and it wasn't it wasn't the
day I went to Catholic school so it
wasn't the daily religion math English
Spelling She did more, instead of just
having the books that we did, there
was one year that we went camping.
There was another year for Thanksgiving.
we actually did a Thanksgiving
meal and this was a lower
income area in San Francisco.
And so for kids who don't have those
experiences, it was just really cool.
and so I think that's what caught me.
And the enrichment part of it
too, that totally makes sense.
It's so nice when I hear about the
teachers that went into teaching
because of that one teacher.
I have to adhere, I know our audience
won't be as interested in this as I
am, but, um, Tacoma, where'd you go
to, I, that's where I live, I don't
know if you knew that, but, um, So,
where'd you go to school in Tacoma?
I went to Bellarmine.
Oh, really?
So did my wife.
We'll talk about that afterwards.
then I went to UPS after that, so
that's where I got my undergraduate.
I live six blocks from UPS.
Oh, I love that area.
Yeah, that's so funny.
I'm in Jefferson Park right up the street.
I won't bore our listeners
with that but, but I love it.
Small world, right?
all right, so Rocio, when I saw you,
and you said you were surprised about
this when we talked before we went on.
But, but I said, like, the thing
that stood out with me most about
you is, like, just the whole
teacher student relationship and
behavior management piece, because,
like, you are all about that.
You are, like, you care for your
kids so deeply, and you're a
warm demander, without a doubt.
And, but they know you love them,
and they know you want nothing but
the best for them, and you're going
to push them to get them there.
And, like, there's so many things that
I saw, but let's just, in general, talk
about, That part of teaching and so I
just want you to just just riff just go.
I just want to listen
what I always tell teachers, new
teachers especially, number one,
I feel like if you ever get to the
point where you feel like you know
everything, then you need to be done.
But secondly, your kids
are different every year.
You're going to get different challenges
every year and you have to, to me, I feel
like I have to meet them where they are.
I can't expect them to be the
same kids I had the previous year.
Um, behaviors or no behaviors, you
know, and sometimes we know that
sometimes it comes from the parents.
Sometimes it's behaviors that
they have because of things that
have happened in their past life,
but they don't understand that.
And so you have to meet
them where they are.
I've had kids that throw desks.
I have, I've had kids
that throw chairs around.
They call me names.
I had one little boy who, was
a challenge, but I had another
one that was calling me names.
And so the, the one that was a challenge,
he would see that and he'd be like, In
his mind, I could see the wheels turning.
Why is he calling her names?
So he would come up to me and
say, Can I give you a hug?
Like he, he felt like I
needed some reassurance
one who's throwing chairs
is telling you that right?
That's so classic.
to be honest, like I said, I'm
surprised that you saw that because
I, I really do push my kids.
Teachers see me, some people, not
necessarily teachers, but they see
me as a strict teacher, but I want
my kids to learn, but at the same
time as a first grade teacher, I
want my kids to like school because
they have 17 years ahead of them.
if they don't leave first grader,
first grade liking school, it's
going to be a tough road for them.
So if I can meet them where they're at
and move them from there, it's just as
exciting for them as it is for me because,
I'll be honest, we just got our, our
DIBLS test back, and I had one little
girl double her score from January.
I had another one that went up like
almost 100 words per minute from January.
And so the more you encourage them,
and let them know that, Hey, you
know, it's okay to be where you're at.
We're just going to keep moving.
I think then it encourages
them to keep going.
Yes,
Yes, I agree so you're meeting each
kid where they're at each child
where they're at which means you're
also understanding each child And
accepting each child for where they're
at and even if there are things That
they're coming with their baggage for
whatever term we want to use for it.
It, it doesn't matter what it is.
Our job, our, and if we're in this,
we're in this to make a difference
in the lives of young people.
So our job, our responsibility, hopefully
our passion, is to, for you, and for
you, and for you, who each one of
you are, no matter what you are, I'm
going to find out what works for you,
I'm going to get you on the path to
success for each individual person.
And sometimes, and we can see why people
do it, they'll sometimes They'll wanna,
well, it's the kids, it's this and it's
that, and it's, they all bring that, but
that, I, I can't use that as an excuse.
I have to work with them, and it's
hard, and maybe we need help to
learn how to do it better, but you're
saying, am I, am I getting you right?
it is.
Sometimes it is the kids,
but what are you going to do?
Give up on them?
we can't give up on them.
And sometimes it's the kids,
but they don't realize that
they are having these issues.
Either six in your case,
Exactly.
Exactly.
what you're saying is part of it,
but Rocio, that's just a start,
is meeting each kid where they're
at and understanding each kid.
It's more than that.
I mean, the way you're choosing
to work with them, how you set
up class expectations, the way
you demonstrate care for kids.
I want to hear more.
It's, it's hard for me because
I just, it's just what I do.
I like to have routine.
Um, and the reason I like to have
routine is that the more routine the
kids have, the more comfortable they are.
Because if, if you allow the kids
to just kind of do whatever, get
up whenever, We have to realize
that we don't, we're not living at
home with our three or four kids.
We're living in a classroom,
and I'm saying living because
we're here all day, with 24 kids.
And some of those kids
don't do well with noise.
Some of those kids don't
do well with touching.
Some of those don't, kids don't do
well with speaking up for themselves.
So when you have routine, you're giving
kids an opportunity to have their space.
This is their home for the day.
so I, I have routine, a lot of routines,
but then the kids after a week or two,
the kids know what we're gonna do.
I bring them over to the carpet in
the morning, we sit down, we go over
the day, if they have questions, they
have questions, I always I always
say, boys and girls, do you have
any, does anybody have any questions?
If they start with a statement,
I'll ask them, is that a question?
So they have to learn also,
there's a time for questions and
there's a time to just share.
Um, oh, it is.
you know, this year I
had a lot of talkers.
I had a some kids with some behavior.
I had a few kids that came
into first grade not knowing
their numbers or letters.
you work with them.
Okay, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm
going to follow up and I'm going to
push you a little more on this because,
because I, because it's so, so strong.
So routine and systems and what
I'm hearing you is routines and
systems build stability, like
almost like a family in itself.
Like it takes, like it's
almost, it creates a safety.
That's almost what I'm hearing you
say, especially for our kids that
are maybe even struggling more.
Like when I've got that
routine, it's, it's parameters.
It helps me to stay within something.
Which in some ways limits that
behavior, those behaviors that we
would call misbehaviors, because you've
you know what?
As you're saying that, I'm also thinking
I don't, I never thought of it this
way, but I think the routines, like,
I expect them to have a backpack every
day, even if they're not taking anything
home or bringing anything to school.
In the winter, obviously, they have
to have a coat, but I think when
they have those routines, it makes
them feel like, oh man, I forgot my
homework because my backpack's at home.
So, if it's an expectation that they have.
It empowers them.
So having the routines and expectations
and systems, well that's so fascinating,
I've never even thought about it like
I hadn't either until now.
we might have to write a
book Rocio, it empowers them.
I, I really do think, that it does.
You know, at the end of the day,
um, I have my, my classroom set
up in three rows, and so I'll tell
the kids, okay, table one, you're
going to go get your backpack.
Table 2, you're going to
get your, stack your chairs.
Table 3, you're going
to empty your mailbox.
So at the end of the day, when we're
lining up to go home, once we go through
that routine with all three tables, I know
that everybody has emptied their mailbox.
I know everybody has
picked up their backpack.
Everybody has picked up their coat.
And so we're not walking out with
someone saying, Oh, I forgot my lunchbox.
Oh, I forgot my, my toy that I got, um,
from my reading teacher or whatever it is.
They, I had never thought of
that, but yeah, I really do
think that it empowers them.
we think about it, it's
like, how does esteem build?
It builds through effort
and accomplishment, right?
And I think sometimes we're in an era
at the risk of alienating some parents
here, but they're probably not big
listeners, of parents being really,
really well intended, but being so
worried about a child's self esteem that
it's pats on the backs, it's been don't
want to say unearned, but I'm going to
say unearned in a sense that it, I'm so
worried about protecting them that I'm
not letting them experience anything.
And when I do something, it's like, Like
I accomplished something and even we might
say saying it's putting my backpack away.
It's remembering my homework.
It's getting my mail.
Those are little things, but
they're six or seven, right?
Those are still accomplishments and you
build from that and you build from that.
And from there, you get to the point
where part of those systems are.
Like in your class the day that we were
in there, those kids are writing and
you've got 24 kids in that class and
21 of those kids are independently,
on their own, getting to work, and
they're writing stories independently.
I'm walking around the room and I'm
seeing 21 kids writing and they're not
just, Writing, writing, we're there
and it's two thirds of the way to three
quarters of the way through the year,
but they're writing stories in there And
that's isn't that along the same lines.
It doesn't that even tie
into the the management and
systems and routines as well
One thing I always tell my kids, for
example, if we're going to use laptops
and someone's laptop's not working,
they know that if their laptop's not
working, they have to have a book on
their desk or they have to be working
on something from their folder because
we never sit with nothing on our desk.
my kids in the classroom know that
we're working all day, and we're not
going to sit and not do anything.
It reminds me what you were,
when you were talking about the
parents, you know, I'm trying to
give my kids more responsibility.
We celebrate homework.
They have to bring their homework in
on Friday, and we, we quote, celebrate
our homework, And my kids at the
beginning of the year will say, Oh, my
mom forgot to put it in my backpack.
And I'll say, well, but the candy's not
going to your mom, it's going to you,
so that has to be your responsibility.
after COVID, um, I had a little
girl who was vision impaired.
And, um, the kids would take their
laptops home and she needed it more for
some of the work that she was doing.
And they would come to school and they
would say, Oh, my laptop's not charged.
My mom forgot to charge it.
And so every day I would say, It's
your responsibility, not your mom's.
And I remember the mom telling me, the
mom of this little girl, saying she
woke up around 10 o'clock to charge
her laptop because she said, Mrs.
Avalos said, I have to do it, not you.
Oh, isn't that
they start to pick up on those
things and I thought that was great.
It's also that's a great story and and
but it's also it's routine And it's
consistency and it's persistence and
relentlessness On your end too, right?
Do you know what I mean?
Yes.
as I'm in there, like I, I wrote down one
of our, one of our toolbox possibilities
on the form for those that haven't seen
it yet for each one of the nine areas of
pedagogy and list a bunch of strategies
that would work into that category.
And we have warm demander is one
of the ones and, and that is you
without a doubt, because like.
You're stern, not in a mean way stern, but
like in a like, I have high expectations
of you stern, and in the same breath,
and I don't even know how the hell you
do this, but you have this wave, it's,
it's stern and I love you at the same
time, like, don't mess with me, get
it right, and I love you sweetheart,
and I don't know how you do that, but
that's exactly what I'm hearing when
I hear you say everything you say.
I don't know how I do it.
But I do.
I want, I want my kids to be successful.
And, and in the world that we're in,
when I first started teaching, we
didn't have nearly as many parents
where both parents were working.
We didn't have nearly
as many single parents.
And unfortunately, that's
the world we're in right now.
And so we need to, and I tell my kids
this too, we need to help our parents.
And we need to help our
kids to be independent.
So that when a single mom or a
single dad gets home from work at
night, and the child is home, the
child can be responsible for getting
their water bottle, or putting
their homework in their backpack.
And then the parent and the
child have a better relationship.
Or, you know, I'll tell my kids, Well,
you know, boys and girls, when I go to
bed at night, I have to put all my stuff
on the table because I will forget.
and I will, um, my keys and my backpack.
And so I tell them, if you don't
want to forget something, put
everything in your backpack at night.
And I, and I do think we just have
a lot of families that are going
through different situations and, and
we don't always know what's going on.
But by encouraging and strengthening
our, the abilities of our kids,
it really does help the parents.
And I think in the long run,
our kids may stay in school longer.
Fair enough, So, I, I, let's
jump, I, You, you talked about
like your, your own thing.
Can you tell the kids how you
have to do your own things at home
and, and, and like, or I forget.
So you're talking about teacher
sharing of themselves, which
is on, on the toolbox, right?
And teacher sharing mistakes,
which is in the toolbox.
But you also have a good sense of humor
where you're joking with the kids.
And so those are three traits that
stand out to me, in your practice.
Do, why don't you talk a little bit about
those three things and how those factor
into, uh, Into learning and relationships
and management and growing your class.
So I do tease my kids a lot.
And I do share a lot of myself.
I share about my grandkids,
my husband, my daughters.
I love, I love Winnie the Pooh.
And so I have behind me here about ten
of them sitting on my, uh, file cabinet.
in fact, just today we were using question
words, who, what, when, where, why, how,
and I told the kids, you can ask me any
questions using those words, and so that
was one of the questions they asked me, I,
and teacher sharing of mistakes,
like what roles are those?
Because I think they
play an important role.
okay, mistakes.
I think that is one of the biggest things
that we need to share with our kids.
Um, when we are at fault, uh, in
fact, that day of the lesson, after,
um, you all left, I realized I make,
because we have to, as teachers, we
have to process what we're doing all
the time, because we're never perfect,
and we always realize, oh, I should
have done it this way, but we can't
be afraid of saying, oh, I messed up.
It's okay.
We either start over or we fix it.
And so that day after the lesson,
um, I realized I was not very
clear on some of the directions.
So I called the kids back and I
said, you know, this is my fault.
This is on me.
And I explained to them
what I, what I did.
And I think that's really important.
That we say, Oh, this one's on me.
I messed up.
I forgot.
I didn't do this because they
have to understand that, when
they make a mistake, it's okay.
But we need to fix it.
So.
I made a mistake.
How do I fix it?
You made a mistake.
How do you fix it?
Because
you do is you own it, right?
And then you, and then you
talk about it and you model it.
So when I can do that, then it's okay
because sometimes as kids, especially if
we're coming from a household where it's
not okay to make mistakes or if you pay a
severe price because of it, it's not okay.
You're modeling it becomes even
more important or maybe it's
where it's maybe it's not okay at
home, but it is okay here, right?
So you can send that
message to them as well
I'm thinking every once in a while,
if you're not feeling well, you tell
the kids, you know what, boys and
girls, I don't want to be crabby
today, but I do want to tell you
that I have a really bad headache.
So just in case.
And then if I get upset with
the kids, I'll say, I'm sorry,
you know, I don't feel well.
That was my fault.
And then you move on.
Mm hmm.
But it's a family.
You're with your kids all
day, so it's your family.
So yeah, and so let's be real
with them and that helps.
I love it.
Hey, I want to veer a little bit from
what we normally do these last few
minutes and because beforehand we were
talking a little bit about the model the
district has been using before versus
now what we're starting to do at Whitney
and Robertson Elementary and hopefully
spreading throughout the whole district.
It is, so you're a school that's
been doing the Danielson model
and, and now you're adopting trust
based observations and we were just
talking about like as a teacher.
What some of the differences are and
how it affects you and what you feel
about observation and what you feel
about growth and just do you mind
chatting about that for a minute,
I would love to.
Because I was not too excited about
you guys coming into my classroom.
I,
which you made very clear to us,
you made known very clear to us
then and afterwards, but go ahead.
but as we sat in the conference
room and we went through
it, it's exactly what I do.
You know, I, I go home at night
and I'm always processing things.
I can't ever let go of school,
but, I just, I do love teaching.
We're talking about the
reflective conversation after
the observation just for us.
Yes, so what I've told newer teachers
that if you ever feel, if you ever get to
the point where like you know everything
as a teacher, you need to be done.
And even though I've taught for 30 years,
35 years, we had a new teacher on our,
two new teachers on our team this year.
I've learned so much from them.
Yeah,
and, and through that observation,
I was able to look at, Oh,
Hey, you did this well.
And it was like, Oh, wow.
You know, I'm not normally told.
What I'm doing well, but I was also told,
you know, maybe you could try this and
this and this whereas with Danielson it's
a checkoff list and to me I Just want
to get through get done and over with
and then it's behind me it's over and I
don't do anything else with it and I just
this this observation was so different.
I just loved it because it gave me
Reassurance of what I'm doing is okay,
but there is still room for improvement.
and I'll say, Rocio, so one, what
I'm hearing you emphasize is that
one, it's a strengths based, because
we look at what you're doing well,
and the form allows us to be really
specific, so we're able to share really
specifically, and as you know, you get
a copy of it electronically sent to you
right off the bat, and not only that,
but we ask you about your practice.
What were you doing to
help students learn?
If you had the chance to do it
again, what would you do differently?
To me, you tell me if I'm wrong,
but even just asking that, it's
like, it's saying, I care about you
and I value you as a professional,
Yes.
I just keep going back to Danielson.
Danielson, to me, is a checkoff.
And if I get proficient, I just
feel like I'm an okay teacher,
but no one's telling me.
Well, and my, my principals do do a good
job of saying, hey, you, you, you do this
great, but it's not in the observation,
it's not in the observation, the
observation just kind of leaves you,
right?
They just, they have to go by a
guideline, whereas with this trust
base, It's just a different feeling.
I'll be honest, I, I almost cried
afterwards because it was like, I
felt good about what I was doing.
I was like, finally, I got some
positive feedback that what I'm doing
is probably in the last 35 years, I
was in the right right field for me,
instead of being a chemical engineer.
and that's, I mean, if you think about
it, Danielson's been around since about
2000, and so we've got a whole generation
now of people where it's, And again,
I'm not trying to rail on that model,
but it's the way the model is set up.
You're telling me what it feels
like as a teacher, and I hear
this all the time from teachers.
It just feels like something to
be accomplished and put in the
rearview mirror, not like it's
really about getting better.
And what I'm hearing you say is that what
we're doing makes you want to get better.
That feeling of like it spurs even,
I mean, I know you're that anyway.
I mean, I know you well enough
to know that, but it spurs
even more of that in you.
Oh, yes.
it just reassures you that
what you're doing, is right.
but there's still areas to work on, and
that's okay because we're not perfect.
And I'm even going to push back on one
thing you said is because you said,
and we said that you could potentially
get better in this area or that area.
We didn't actually say any of that Rocio.
We actually, because we were even talking
beforehand, remember, we, for the,
you know, with exceptions, the first
four visits, we don't do any of that
because we're just working on building
relationship because trust is so important
so people can feel safe taking risks.
But I think what's happening is the way
that that form is, it's so specific.
Is as we're going over the form, your
mind on your own starts spinning and
thinking, Oh, I could have done that.
Oh, I could have done that.
Even though we say a blank on the form
or an absent space is nothing negative.
It just means we didn't see it, but I
think it just gets your wheels spinning.
So sometimes you think we said you
should get better at that, but,
but we didn't tell you any of that.
No, you're probably right, but,
but I think as teachers we do that.
How can we do this better next time?
I think it's okay.
You know, I know teachers who've
done Danielson and they do the same
goal every year because it's easy.
Whereas with this, you just
become a better teacher.
I just, it's, to me, it's exciting.
I don't have many years left, but
I want to continue to grow as a
teacher and be better for my kids.
Well, I, is there a better
place for me to leave this than
with trust based observations?
It just makes you want to
be a better teacher, and it
makes you a better teacher.
We have to finish on that.
It's that's like unpaid
advertising for me.
Thanks, Rocio.
And, um, so listen, I think there's
people out there that can learn from you.
And, uh, the relationships, behavior
management, everything that you do.
And so would you mind sharing like
maybe your work email or contact in
case anybody wanted to reach out?
A
is A V, as in Victor, A
L O S, dot, R O C I O, at
ysd7.
org.
V A L O S dot R O C I O at Y S D seven.
org
Yes.
And I don't have all the answers,
but I'd love to chat with
people because I love teaching.
I love it, Rocio.
Rocio, it has been an absolute pleasure.
I don't know if you know, I'm going
to be back out in December, so
we'll get to, we'll get to hang out
then, uh, when I'm back out there.
that'd be
great.
thanks so much for
being on the show today.
I'm really, really grateful.
Have a
Thank you so much.