Episode 18 - Re-Membering, A New Perspective Into Deeper Healing

Show Notes

Welcome to your weekly dose of The Psychedelic Psychologist. In this episode, you'll meet Genavi who is new to the world of psychedelics, but experiences a depth of healing, exploring and diving into spirituality. Genavi shares her personal perspective on how she found psychedelics and the trust she was able to get by doing a deeply transformational session. In the conversation, she tells her story through trauma and shares she's able to see herself in a wonderful light. She goes on to express her gratitude to the setting and environment she had to explore herself. Ultimately, getting drawn into the invitations that await her.

The Psychedelics Integration Handbook
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What is The Psychedelic Psychologist?

The Psychedelic Psychologist is a conversational-style podcast hosted by Dr. Ryan Westrum with clients and guests who use talk therapy to integrate Psychedelic experiences for healing and personal transformation. Tune in to hear people’s experiences, breakthroughs and stories of healing addiction, depression, and trauma through Psychedelics. Dr. Ryan Westrum gracefully and empathetically narrates real therapy sessions with people in their most vulnerable and transformational moments.

I want to invite you to gently close your
eyes, finding a comfortable position.

Be it lying down, sitting
up most importantly, finding

your body deeply relaxed.

Checking in.

Taking a wonderful body scan,
whatever that looks like to you

remembering this body, being your
body, breathing in and breathing out.

And as you do, so simply start to watch
your focus, wander into your emotions.

Allowing yourself, the gentle
opportunity to feel the abundance

of all emotions coming up,

breathing in and breathing out,
allowing these emotions to carry you

taking one more breath in.

And they're releasing breath out.

The invitation now comes to your
thoughts, memories, ideas, simply

percolating up for you to be the
witness breathing in and breathing out

and with no rush.

Absolutely no urgency.

Take a moment to examine witness
and honor your body, your

emotions and your thoughts.

And when you're ready, opening
your eyes to see the room.

And most importantly, to see
yourself a little differently

than when we first started.

Hi, it's Ryan.

Welcome to your weekly dose of the
psychedelic psychologist, where I

invite my guests to share stories
about their psychedelic experiences.

We cover a variety of topics from
overcoming addiction and severe

depression to finding wholeness and the
spiritual emergence today's podcast.

You're going to hear
from one of my guests.

Genevie.

Who has now been introduced to
psychedelics most recently, and she shares

the most wonderful expression of her
journeys, her experience, and her desire

to work with these psychedelic medicines,
Genevieve, how are you coming in today?

I'm coming in today with a mix of things.

I'm noticing both that like eager,
childlike, excitement to like, talk

about this, amazing medicine and work.

And then also a deep
sense of calm in patience.

That's like a, both, and yeah,
this like buzz, like let's

talk, let's talk, let's dive in.

And then like, oh, a settling
of the magnitude, potentially.

If I can imagine.

There is a magnitude.

No.

Oh gosh.

Yeah.

And it fuels the excitement.

I love it.

I can hear it in your voice.

Tell me, would you have ever
thought that we would be having

this conversation about psychedelic
medicines as a healing modality for you?

No, I, I was unfamiliar with it as.

Option for healing until, until
it just revealed itself to me.

, I I've heard of it before.

It was something that, you hear about
in passing, but I never really, my

attention never really landed on it as
something that was interesting or that

I was curious about or that I needed.

Right.

It's like information comes in.

It's like, and I assess
whether or not I need it.

And then it goes out, And it wasn't
until, a recent experience a couple

months ago that, caused me, caused
my body to just really remember some

very, traumatic past pain points.

I call them cuz I think the
word trauma is very triggering.

So these past pain points came up in
my body and, I, and I'm a meditator.

I do yoga, very aware
of watching the think.

Knowing what my body's up to and when
this provoking experience happened

and I went into a panic attack and I
couldn't breathe and I couldn't, it

was like somebody stirred up my brain.

I, I couldn't, I was watching
myself,, shutting down and numbing.

And it was actually worse to watch
myself because that, that, that awareness

was like, oh, things are really bad.

Like you're so in it.

And you know, you're so in it
and you can't get out of it.

And that was a really terrifying
experience to think that something

from the external world, an event,
that happened to me, And it was quite

simple in, in some respects, I guess.

it was an email that I had
received that had some information

in it that was very critical.

And so the, the event itself, wasn't no
one would say, well, that's traumatic.

No one would say that, but for my body
and my past, it was incredibly traumatic.

And it, when it went right to the
core and the source of, of a wound

that I clearly hadn't touched.

and I was blissfully naive
of that wound for decades.

and it just, there happens in the
middle of the day on a Friday at noon,

and I've got kids at home and, and
the, and you can't get out of it and

you can't help yourself get out of it.

And I think that was my hardest
moment was this awareness of,

I can be aware of my pain.

I can be aware that I'm
having a panic attack.

And I don't know what I, I'm also
the, the body and the thinker

and I can't get out of it.

And so that was that's then.

That was really the impetus for me
to just be like, after I came out

of that, it took me a couple weeks,
you know, of just like, really

recovering from that downhill slide.

And then I just remember telling
myself, okay, it's time to dive

deeper into healing modalities
that you've not touched yet.

You need to open up to some new ways of
exploring, healing and integrating that

you may have never considered before.

And so in just my search I, I
stumbled upon things like EMDR

and then also psychedelics.

And, it's quite amazing.

Ryan, when you start to tell people
a little bit about these experiences,

the help that just floods in.

I have a, a good friend of mine who then
was like, you need to read this book.

Called how to change your
mind by Michael pollen.

So you.

Sound like, there's an amazing
amount of emotion that comes up

and you then found somebody or
friends introduced you to something.

Is that correct?

Yeah, that's correct.

And so it's when you ask
for the support it comes in.

So I just started to read more about,
healing with psychedelics online

and, started listening to the book.

, And it all seemed very obvious.

I just remember having this
feeling of no, I was deeply

curious, but there was no fear.

There was no, it just, I don't know.

It's so hard to describe it all felt
so clean and logical and like, well,

this is exactly what I have to do.

This, wow.

This is, it was like, it was like
pulling me in, it was inviting me in.

And so, I just kept asking friends
questions to keep finding my way to

creating an experience where I could
try something that in my mind was very.

Radical as a form of healing.

But the event that had happened to me
a couple months ago was also radical

and that needed to not happen again.

I was like, I, I can't move through
this world in the work that I do.

being that vulnerable.

I just, I can't.

So something from the inside needs

to take a different shape.

And what is that shape when you face that?

Well, Does a situation need, what does the
healing need to come up against something,

as you said, so triggering and yeah.

So jarring.

Yeah.

What did you need?

Yep, I think, so what I needed and
what I discovered through my experience

with psychedelics was I needed a
visceral embodiment of feeling.

Expansive perspective,
love and compassion.

I, I, I can think those thoughts,
I can do my meditations.

I can read books that
intellectualize all that.

Like you, you should have an expanded
perspective or like, I love the book of

joy and, and all of that intellectually
settles and it, and it gets me by, right.

But when these deep cuts happen, they
don't, they don't touch because it's not

the conscious, the, a aware, conscious
awareness, the love and the compassion.

aren't nested in my cells.

and that's due to, a childhood
of adverse childhood experiences

of high ACEs of ch of complex
PTSD, which is the prolong trauma.

Um, and I already knew all of this, right.

That wasn't new to me.

I knew that trauma resides in the body
and I know that love resides in the body.

And so what I was seeking with
the psychedelic experience was an

opportunity for my body, just like steep.

Like to steep in that love to like
steep in that compassion, because

I didn't get that as a child.

And I didn't get that in other
relationships that were meant

to be intimate in my life.

I tried to really create it for
myself, like self love, but self

love can be really hard to create
when you don't have, a framework or

an embodiment of love to build on.

So I think for me to kind of circle back
to your initial question, it was, I was

seeking psychedelics to,, allow me to
steepen that love, which then allowed

me to feel a different type of power.

Right.

Because then when I, when I emerged
from the psychedelic experience where

I absolutely felt all of those things
that I was hoping for, I felt a very,

fierce, but quiet power about myself.

That I hadn't felt before.

And so that, that changed everything.

Whereas now I feel as if I walk in the
world with this orientation and an actual

body with cells that are filled with
perspective, compassion, and love where

I do feel like on my own protector.

And I can honestly say,
nobody can harm you.

And I'm here to always protect you.

That shield, that whatever, whatever
that, force was that I now feel I have

for myself, it was there before, but it
was super weak and it was penetrable.

People could throw stones
and it would get through.

Whereas now I just feel it does.

It's not like a callous, I can do
anything and I can't be harmed.

That's not what I'm saying, but
there's just the fiercest form of.

Protection for myself, that has
been in this integration phase, a

really beautiful byproduct of the
experience that I hadn't expected.

I love that because what I'm hearing
is this dichotomy of fierce compassion.

It's very binary, but melts well together.

Doesn't it?

It does.

It does.

And, it doesn't mean I
show up in the world.

angry or distant or anything,
it's actually the opposite.

I'm still very much all of the
ways I was in the world, which

is kind and compassionate and
loving and, curious and open.

But I feel that those dispositions in ways
of being in the world while wonderful.

They were lacking this little like
invisible shield that then when

somebody would turn anger around on
me or turn hate or judgment around

on me, it would go right to my core.

Whereas now I'm still all of those things
in the world, but there's like this, like,

it sounds silly like an inner force field.

That's just like, like you
can't, you can't penetrate this.

and that's just beyond wonderful and, and.

What's the emotion coming up.

When you say this right now, I'm
witnessing and hearing beyond wonderful.

But it sounds as if there's an emotion
deeply connected to that as well.

Yeah, there is.

And it's, I it's surprising.

There's no apology.

What is it coming up right now?

Well, you know what, I'm also discovering
in the integration after the psychedelics.

And this is why I'm discovering
the beauty of this medicine.

Is that the moments that I was in
the state and steeping right in that

again, perspective, love, compassion.

It's taking multiple shapes now
after in the integration phase.

And there's no question
that one of them is grief.

One of them is grief of the
lovelessness that I received that

left me that vulnerable to the world.

And so when there's times, when I reflect
on how strong I feel right now and stable

and connected, it's very natural to then
have my thoughts, be like, And I call,

you know, just to say to myself, gosh,
I'm so sorry that, that wasn't built for

you over time in your family structure.

And so then I just feel this, like
these Heights of love coupled with then

profound awareness of the lovelessness.

And so it, this is the, the what's
being produced in the integration

that I didn't anticipate was.

When I got in the nucleus of my
own love and fierce protection,

it's both like paving forward a
future for me, based on like, I can

walk in the world and feel safe.

That's huge.

I never knew that.

But it's also Ryan it's healing the
past at the same time, it's like forward

facing and it goes back at the same time.

So the healing is like it's bilateral.

And I know it isn't linear.

I don't know.

Don't know the word for it.

Well, that's that infinity that infinity
looping of back on itself and coming

to heal something from the past.

Also honoring the trail forward is what
I'm hearing you articulate so well.

So the emotion is, is grief.

Emotion are these it's it's these little
moments that , that I see very clearly

the, the loss and the absence of that in
my past and the grieving , It's allowing

me, it's almost like when I feel the
grief, the force field gets even stronger

and I'm just like, how can this be?

How can this be?

That, you know, the grief is actually
fueling in a very powerful and again,

profound, loving, calm, yet fierce way.

it's mind blowing.

is there a intuition?

Grief is on the , horizon that
I'm going to have to look at more

things with being fiercely loving
and compassionate of oneself.

It seems to me that there's something
almost wanting to birth itself or

exonerated itself within your story.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I also feel that I feel that
there's such intuition in our

emotions and in our spirits.

And I also believe that.

What's brought to the surface to be seen
is brought in very timely divine manners.

And so this thing that I needed
to look at through the psychedelic

experience couldn't be seen any sooner.

So there's a reason why knowing about
psychedelics as a healing modality

never landed on me before, because it
potentially could have caused damage.

I wasn't strong enough.

I'm strong enough now.

And so with the fear strength that came
from the embodied cellular experience of.

The medicine in those moments, that
I experienced it has now given me a

sense of safety and protection that
now I can fully turn and look back.

Fully I've been peeking over my shoulder.

yeah.

At my past I've been like,
I know there's something back

there, but I'm not turning around.

I'm just gonna like peak
every now and again.

And just like, okay.

When I see what, whatever I see when I
peak I can ingest that, cuz it's just

a little bit, but now I'm ready to just
fully like turn backwards and, and face.

And know, and know in my
bones that,, it won't hurt me.

It won't destroy me.

And that, if anything, now more
than ever, I have exactly what

I need based on the psychedelic
experience to, integrate grief.

And for me, the grief is cuz I I've
looked it up a little bit online cuz I

had never really thought of myself as
needing to grieve., but with ACEs and

childhood trauma, I believe what I'm
grieving is like the loss of myself, the

loss of that child, the loss of that,
the lovelessness, the loss of the family.

So it's big things.

It's really big things to look at.

Yeah.

And if I could pin something, you
said really eloquently, which is

this idea that you just received an
abundance of tools through compassion.

Love.

Perspective.

That's now incrementally preparing
you for continuation of this healing.

So when you do look back or when
you acknowledge something that needs

to be checked, healed, or put in
perspective, you you've fostered

something through this experience.

Yeah.

It's like a, it's almost.

It's like a spiritual skillset, you
know, there there're these invisible,

spiritual gifts that we all have,
but we don't talk about them.

And we don't, cuz they're
difficult to talk about.

They're difficult to grapple and name,
but we know 'em when we feel them.

And I feel like after the psychedelic
experience I've been giving a whole, given

a whole new tool set of spiritual skills.

I keep thinking of like a
lightsaber from star wars.

What color color would you have?

Yes, it's red and somebody, I,
somebody was like, So you've had

this little, like light Saer in
your back pocket the whole time.

And then like in the psychedelic
experience, like it was put in my

hand and I was like, what is this?

And then it was just
like, there's a button.

I'm like, there's a button.

And I pressed the button and
it like, it got it wooed on and

it's bright red and I'm like, Aw.

And so the integration phases,
I'm learning how to wield it.

I'm learning how it's not, it's
not all all over the place.

I'm learning how to.

I'm learning how to wield it,
to just like slice through just

stuff to like see it at its core.

, but what I love about the light saber
analogy is that, , it's, I'm using

light to cut through the darkness.

I'm using the light.

So there's nothing to fear Ryan.

That's the biggest thing I
took from at this point, right.

It's still pretty early for me,
post psychedelic experience.

but the biggest thing I'm, I'm taking
away from that is, in the darkness,

there's, there's just so much light.

There is, there is
that's really remarkable.

You said something that
caught my attention.

As it's unfolding for you now in
the integration process, can you

speak to me a little bit about,
how fast it's been coming your way?

Has it felt like it's been titrating to
you at the pace that's easily digestible?

What's been your experience of like yeah.

Processing and, what I would always
call, kind of digesting this yeah.

Immense information.

Yeah, that's a great question.

Thank you for asking it., so I felt like
in the psychedelic experience, it, it

did the insights, the awareness, it,
the, even the images from my childhood

to face, they all came so rapidly.

, But it felt a lot like that excitement
that I felt when you asked me how I

was coming into the space it wasn't
out of a fear or an anxiety rapidness.

It was out of an excitement
of, well, she's ready now.

She's ready to look at all of this.

Okay.

Like this is exciting, you
know,, I'm feeling the same.

, energy in the integration phase where
it's like, I'm asking, like, tell me

more, give, I wanna, I wanna see more.

And though the fact that I do practice
yoga and I do practice mindfulness,

and I do have a very full life.

I am very aware of like the
necessity to, to, to slow it down.

Very intentionally.

So there's this excitement and
eagerness to be just like, okay,

now I know how to clean up my pain.

Okay, cool.

You know, but now it's like, yeah, but
you gotta take it one box at a time and

it's like, when you're cleaning out your
basement and then you find the box with

all the pictures, like sit down with
the pictures and like go through them.

And sit with a picture and pause with
it, not just grab a bunch of boxes from

the basement and just toss 'em out.

So I feel that that's what this is,
is, feeling, picking up the boxes,

the density of past pain, feeling
their weightedness and then every

box has something a little different.

And some boxes are gonna take me a
lot longer and others I'm just like,

yeah, I'm not even looking in that.

Just toss it out.

that's a really wonderful metaphor.

The boxes, the pictures, and
the mindfulness exercise of

acknowledging it, accepting it and
bringing awareness to this whole.

Yeah.

But also knowing that we have to have
one foot in reality, still do our due,

due diligence in our day, pay attention
to our children, pay attention to our

partners, engaging in work and know
that in a way we could put it on the

shelf and then sacredly take it down
to integrate to honor at some level.

Yeah.

And I, I would say that that
has been the biggest challenge,

not because, well, first of all,
because it is difficult, right?

When I, at least for me, when I
go in that space of wanting to do

that type of spiritual cleaning,
I kind of wanna stay there.

I like it.

You know, I, I kind of like wielding that
light save and like, like this is fun.

and I have very real commitments.

And so what I've done, what's
been working for me as of late.

And that could change is just
every day I designate, 45 minutes.

in the morning,, of that time
of like, this is the time.

And, what's meant to come through during
this time is when it's gonna come through.

So I kind of like, it's like a
meeting with myself, you know?

and it's not touchable.

And then if nothing comes through Ryan
in that 45 minute window of time, I just.

Let that be.

And then if, and like we spoke about
earlier with the grieving, the grieving,

doesn't wait for that 45 minute window.

the grieving is like, yeah, it's cute.

She thinks that she can like pick us
up and put us down when she wants,

like, the grieving always comes
through when let's say I'm driving.

And I have my family in the car and an
insight just drops and an awareness right.

About something.

That's incredibly healing.

I have a full face of makeup
and the tears start rolling and

it's like, okay, this is not.

So the tension for me in those moments,
Ryan are too, and I've put Kleenex

all over my car and my house I
have, I've just bought well done.

Well, well done is like,
anything comes everywhere, right?

I'm ready.

We all need stock and Kleenex.

It's true.

I just.

I do my best to,, not
get fully consumed by it.

And like, cuz I can't, I'm driving,
I can't bend over and weep and plus

it would scare the children I think.

But if they ask and they see cuz they
do, I just tell them that I'm just

feeling something and it's okay to feel.

And, and then what I'll do, Ryan is if
it's overwhelming, I'll I'll mark it.

I'll write it in my journal.

And then I'll ask to revisit.

The next day when I've
got some space for it.

But, I've discovered I have to create
the space for it, to really do the

deep,, intentional integration,
but it's happening all the time's.

My dreams are different dreams
are different even now, too.

So it's happening in my dream
states without me even, attempting

to control that as well.

It's such a valuable point to be.

The idea of giving space
and yet containing it.

So again, there's this real kind of
like pulsating breathing life force

after the experience, this idea
that it's not just the experience,

but really where the substance and
juicy opportunity is, is this idea

of like working with it practically.

And I love what you said.

It's allowing dreams, the
super consciousness to come

in the storylines to chew on.

Have you noticed anything of recent that
has surprised you with the integration

process, knowing that this is very
new to you, has something, given you

a little glimpse of laughter or what
I always call the cosmic setup is in

the integration process, we find things
that are like, is this really happening?

oh, Yeah, I just, there's so many
things S flooding in right now.

I'm just picking the one.

I think the biggest thing
is this awareness of just

how precious everything is.

And I really love that word.

Like, everything's just.

Precious and things have always
been, I felt like I engaged the

world from a sense of preciousness,
but even now more than ever, I'm

just my body's going a lot slower.

and so I'm able to see just
like how wonderful these little

micro moments of my life are.

And, and the, the laughable part
of that, the giggle comes from

being like, it's always been that.

It's always been that way.

Actually.

Nothing has changed since your psychedelic
experience yet everything has changed.

And so that's, what's, that's what makes
me kind of giggle is like, oh my gosh.

It was all there the whole time.

I just didn't have the eyes to see it.

And now I see it.

And now I'm just like, oh my gosh, can you
all just see, like, like the, you know,

I know this is classic, like psychedelic
talk, but like, Can't you tell that

like on the leaves, the, the little dude
drops they're like diamonds and right.

It's just so I, I try not to express
that too much cuz people are like,

oh gosh, you sound like you're
channeling Robert Hunter right now.

It sounds like straight
outta a grateful dead song.

Do diamonds on the green leaves.

I'm telling you, I see that all now.

And.

I really feel like it's clear the
universe was vibrant and alive pre

psychedelic experience, but now post
it, it's just like, even without

the psychedelic medicine in my body,
it's, it's still embedded something.

It's, it's changed my orientation.

So I can just still see the, things
in a, in a more exaggerated state.

And by exaggerated, I just mean more in.

Innate precious beauty.

And I love that because it's
mesmerizing to walk through the

world, looking at it that way.

But the part I love most is how
it allows me to see other people,

because I then see elements and
tenants of them that I hadn't picked

up on before that I'm just like, wow.

And about myself too, it's just, it's
really quite connective and wonderful.

And I'm so grateful for.

I love that.

So it leads me to ask Genevieve,
what is on your psychedelic

horizon, knowing that this is such
a monumental experience for you?

How are you going to, or what are you
gonna look at to know if you would do this

again, or when it would be calling you?

You talk a lot.

Mm-hmm, real intimately about
invitations and timing, and I

really, really appreciated that.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah for me, there's no question.

I will do it again., there's no question
that, I will use maybe different

types of medicine to just experience
different, again, fractals of perspective.

,because now I'm curious, like
super curious and, but I really,

and, and, but I really believe in
the sacredness of this medicine.

And so for me, I'm gonna follow my
intuition for when it says you're ready

to look at again, something big or
something else, or you're ready for the

next level of, of perspective expansion.

cuz I think that it's, I don't know if
you've ever this great book it's called

a thousand plateaus by Deus and guitar.

They're French philosophers.

And this book is just as thick as
can be and it's really difficult

to read, but I love this concept
of a thousand plateaus of.

I'm just on a plateau right now.

And then another psychedelic experience
will bring me to another plateau and

just another, and there's just unlimited
plateaus and, I'm not seeking any one

destination I'm just seeking to like,
have this experience of, after I do

another psychedelic moment, that's very
sacred and protected, and in a safe

setting, which is how I like to do them.

I, I can't wait to find
out what I'm ready to see.

So I'm, waiting, you know, I'm waiting
and not trying, not to put a timeline on

it, but there's, but I will absolutely
do it again and again and again,

not to escape anything, but to just
keep integrating, because this first

experience has just shown me, like,
there's just, there's so much to.

And you get to choose what you wanna
see and what you wanna track down.

And it's, I get to the side, how
lovely, I always love to ask what are

you doing today to walk a little more
gently with yourself and in this world?

Mm-hmm . it's something that I've been
doing since the experience, because after

the experience, those, the aftercare,
the going really, really slow the several

days after almost like a, like emerging
from a type of a surgery, I really

carried that through in every single day.

I've not to this point.

Fallen back into my busy mind of just
getting through the day and getting

things done and there's a lot to get done.

So I find that today, the
orientation toward the work that

I have to do today is, it's a lot
slower and I'm, I, it's less about

getting work done and doing work.

It's more about, no, this is my day.

To have for myself and my experiences
and work will be part of it.

But work work is like serving
me versus me serving the work.

And so it's just a very different
way of moving or flowing through

my day when I know that the work is
here to serve me and by work, I mean

like the literal work of our jobs,
and, and so that, that perspective.

Is the one that I put on every
morning and just go slow with it.

So I intend to do that today.

cause I'm still practicing.

That's new.

That's very new.

It's all just a practice.

yeah, very much.

Still practicing.

Thank you for this.

You're welcome.