Basic Motivations Webinar 2024

What is Basic Motivations Webinar 2024?

Every culture (family) has distinctive motivations for doing things, but they all have definite pattern and logic, they all provide order and direction within the culture (family). We need a valid cognitive styles model to help us understand the motives and actions of other people, to predict behavior, and sidestep conflict.

Donna Marcue:

Alright. Heavenly father, we thank you for this beautiful day and evening, whatever the case may be. Thank you for bringing this group together. Thank you for energizing Connie to teach this in spite of coming off 2 weeks of a busy schedule. We thank you for the confirmation she had by the notes appearing.

Donna Marcue:

That was such a blessing. And we just ask for a hedge of protection around our time today. We ask for, give us clarity, understanding, insight, revelation, knowledge, ask you to bless each person in the group, and, we ask for protection from any enemy forces in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen.

Mike Banker:

Amen. Okay. Kala, you're on.

Connie Smith:

Alright. Well, so we've learned a bit about about how how people may respond to what's going on around them, whether they are time. And the focus is on fulfilling the time with with, you see the words efficient and time management, and all of those are very, very, very particularly Western ideas, concepts. And, I'm not saying that they're not in other cultures, but primarily, the western cultures are built as as time. Very interesting.

Connie Smith:

Even well, I won't go there. So then yesterday, we talked about how we go about, organizing the world around us so that we can understand it. Okay. Vivian is saying that her Internet is kinda funny working today, and so just bear with her if she can respond or can't respond, etcetera, etcetera. So, we have this whether we divide things up into pieces and have a slot for them to go.

Connie Smith:

That's the way we organize or whether we organize, by the whole of the thing. And does everybody get these, chat messages? Yes. Okay. So you I don't have to respond to say what it is that you can read it for yourself.

Carmen:

Repeat.

Connie Smith:

But ran Randy just sent sent one about he goes in and out because he's traveling evidently. Okay? So, anyway, so we have, the responding and the time of the event. And yesterday, then we talked about the dichotomy and the holism. And that is about how you're dividing up the world in order to understand it better.

Connie Smith:

Eventually, to deal with, to interact with a dichotomist, you're trying to teach them or you're trying to work with them, or you're trying to respond to them even in in friendship. You have to know what to do that makes the this without without raising any walls between you. This is the whole thing here. If we can understand a bit about where the person we're trying to communicate with, where there where they are in life, and we know where we are, in life, then we can adapt where we are in order to actually communicate. Because if your communication is as clear as it can be without any static, without any interference, the happier is going to be and most more effective will be the result of that communication.

Connie Smith:

Does that make any sense?

Mike Banker:

Yes. Definitely. Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

So what we're going to do now is, talk about let you give your examples of what you found, whether these 3, situations were an example of dichotomy, something trending towards dichotomy, or something trending towards holism. So, Mike, if you would do the list.

Mike Banker:

Okay. It looks like, Carmen, you're up in the right hand corner, so you you're first.

Carmen:

Alrighty. Because I found it exciting to understand this. For example, traditional Chinese medicine approach is a holistic. Right? Compares Western medical system.

Carmen:

They treat symptoms or they treat there's a saying, like, you heal the head if the head gets sick. In traditional Chinese, you heal maybe the foot if your head is sick. Something like that.

Connie Smith:

Okay. That that works very nicely. So this would be that would be an example of what, though?

Carmen:

Tell tell us

Carmen:

So there's some Chinese medicine as holistic. Okay. Holism tendency. And, Western medicine is dichotomy.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Right? Very good example.

Carmen:

And but within traditional Chinese medicine philosophy, there is dichotomy. Me. In how they explain the philosophy, there is yin and the yang, there is hot and cold of everything. Just like hot and cold is not about temperature, it's about the nature of the stuff, the herb, a food, the medicine, the sunshine. Yeah.

Carmen:

Like, the sun sunshine is yin young or is hot or positive energy and or hot energy and the night is cold and this cold energy. Some term like that. I think not only Chinese, but also I heard the Mongolians, Yindines, they have this kind of understanding of how to encode temperature. Mhmm. I sorry.

Carmen:

Call them cold energy. Some Energy. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Carmen:

Right.

Connie Smith:

Right. It has nothing to do with temperature.

Carmen:

Yeah. Yeah. That's, what some local doctors that gave diagnosis, they use this kind of terms. Mhmm. In India, I heard from my Mongolian friend.

Connie Smith:

And that is because the whole of the culture would understand what is meant.

Carmen:

Yeah. Like, Indian doctors say this. My Mongolian friends understand, and they tell a Chinese I understand. But I don't know if Westerners understand what the doctor is saying.

Connie Smith:

No. They don't. They don't speak until they are taught.

Carmen:

Yeah. Of course.

Connie Smith:

It's not some that's not part of the cultures. It's not something we're we're raised with. Yeah. We're taught. We're taught that.

Carmen:

Yeah. But it's also like the practice of the spiritual world and the sign scientific ways. Would you say the spiritual world is more like holistic? And sign science is more dichotomous. Because they analyze things separately, categorize them, but, I don't know, spiritual world or the Chinese kind of philosophy to understand how the world works used to be holistic instead of scientific.

Carmen:

They they talk about heaven, earth, and people. How they work together. How these energies, they they talk about the 5 elements. Okay. Means goat, wood, water, fire, and earth.

Connie Smith:

They talk about 5 elements. It's kinda hopeless. So so what then is, is your third one?

Carmen:

Okay.

Connie Smith:

You're using very good illustrations, by the way, of cultural.

Carmen:

Observing own people, we do have sick helpers who are very holistic. And they or or you see, wounded, like, the people receiving help. The way they present stories,

Connie Smith:

is

Carmen:

I I remember Mike used to describe some people with global thinking. I wonder if that's something like holistic kind of culture when they say things. Sometimes it's hard for me to do one session to finish 1 story with with some people because they keep on talking and talking every just like Mike said, everything is related to everything. And for me, I'm also more holistic. I realized from my observation of different safe helpers, some are really good at cutting people off and constrain the time to one event.

Carmen:

But some, they are more relaxed. But usually, I from my impression, I think I'm more I'm more, like, I I leave a lot of things that need to say a prayer for the coverage to keep to the next session. I only focus one thing but I allow them to talk a lot sometimes. I felt it hard to cut them off. But some people were so good at cutting them off.

Carmen:

Only focus one event. But for me, I wanted to see a bigger picture before I want to cut them off.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Very, very good example. As But what then is the safe helper who is very holistic, what are they going to have to learn to do?

Carmen:

Safe helper so I have this clear impression on my one of my safe helper friends. I realized her different style. When I ask her a question, her culture to me is holistic. She's like, before I tell you the answer, I want to tell you this first, and this is gonna be a long story. But I was on the other side.

Carmen:

I'd rather she told me the answer directly. I'm I cut her off and say, hey. Tell me the answer first. And but when she does a session, I observe her session, and she's very on the other end. Yeah.

Carmen:

She she is very organized.

Connie Smith:

Yes. So some of us do it one way and some of us do it the other way.

Carmen:

Uh-huh. But

Connie Smith:

what is the the safe helper The safe helper policy going to have to learn to do.

Carmen:

Holistic to learn to

Carmen:

categorize.

Carmen:

I don't know. I so far, so good. I

Connie Smith:

have memory. Let me just let me just tell you then. Okay? Alright. The safe helper who tends to be, the kind of holistic person that can't keep the thing going because the other holistic this, hurting one is also

Carmen:

is also holistic.

Connie Smith:

Is also holistic.

Carmen:

Happening. Okay. So He didn't get you. Right?

Donna Marcue:

Go ahead.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. Go go ahead. I didn't mean to cut you off.

Carmen:

Oh, sorry. I mean, if a holistic stakeholder met a holistic I won't do one. They they don't pray. They keep talking, and this one keeps listening. But then I after a few sessions talking more than praying on specific things, I would know where to start.

Carmen:

So I would focus, like, focus instead of allowing them to go more.

Connie Smith:

Alright. Okay. Yeah. Alright. Very good examples.

Connie Smith:

Very good examples. Alright. Who else has them?

Mike Banker:

K. Next would be Stone.

Carmen:

Yeah. Well, Carmen was talking about traditional Chinese medicine. Like, that's very interesting. I never thought of that before. And now I'm thinking that, Chinese culture has its really holistic, perspective.

Carmen:

And, but they they have this thing called solar term. Solar term 24. Solar term. And, they gave peep it's like a Chinese instruction for farmers to know when and what to do around the whole year. So they have this solar term.

Carmen:

They have, like, rainwater. They have, like, the spring, the ring the green ring. So when it comes to one term, the name tell people what to do. Maybe you plant the seed during the, the spring something, the rainwater. And then, people will know the temperature will hit the peak during the great heat.

Carmen:

That is another term, solar term. So

Carmen:

it's What's an example

Connie Smith:

of what? What what are your we're trying to decide whether they're dichotomy or holist. What what is this an example of?

Carmen:

I I think it's dichotomy. It focused on the it's well organized. It categorized a whole year into different parts, and tell people exactly what to do during that term during the the the time of that term. So I think that's quite interesting. Yeah.

Connie Smith:

Yes. Yeah. These things where you have a holistic attitude, and then they have broken that down, though, somebody along the line.

Carmen:

Yeah. You

Connie Smith:

can't deal with the year.

Carmen:

Yeah. And Chinese because Chinese people is a very Chinese culture is very agricultural based. So everything yeah. So farmers do things according to the terms.

Carmen:

They just the term

Carmen:

tell them when to harvest when to harvest and when to rest or something like that.

Connie Smith:

Here in America, we have, traditionally, we have always had what's called the Farmer's Almanac, which does the same thing.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

So we we we understand what what that part is. But ours is taken from a a, systematic dichotomy. Yours is taken from even though the presentation may look the same, yours is taken from a holistic. And so the you the whole side would be taking how what you do on September 4th, perhaps, or in September of a given year, relates to the rest of the year. Yeah.

Connie Smith:

Anyway, it's this is another one of those occasions where nothing is an absolute straight on this particular point as you're dealing with human beings.

Stone:

Yeah.

Connie Smith:

Okay?

Carmen:

Well, I was thinking about the examples. Actually thinking about people. So there are some people coming up in my mind. So one of my friend is quite a holistic friend. And when we when we are together, we talk about ideas, we talk about understandings of the situations, the phenomenons, and things connected to each other, and we try to decode some of the connection between them.

Carmen:

And I think that talking to this friend, it's very good thing. But if we're gonna work together, we're gonna need to have another dichonomic people join the team. Because if just us, 2 of us, we'll never get things done. We'll never have a timeline Mhmm. Or a schedule.

Donna Marcue:

Okay.

Carmen:

So we will sort out all the ideas and, you know, run the logic and until yeah.

Connie Smith:

And so what is this an example of? Dichotomy or holism?

Donna Marcue:

Holism.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Alright. And your third one?

Carmen:

And there's another sister who is very I think she's more on the dichotomy side. She folk she's good good at finish the tasks, and she pays a lot of attention on details. And, even if I I share the vision of of a things, she couldn't have said that until she actually, you know, worked through that every details. And, well, when when I talk with her, so everything I said, she will run through her mind by deciding it's good or not. Yep.

Carmen:

Yeah. So everything is black and black and white.

Carmen:

There you go.

Connie Smith:

There you go. Which is what side?

Carmen:

Yeah. And Galileo and Galileo, is it what a Christian do? Is it not what Christian not Christian do? Like, she always runs like that. So sometimes I feel a little pushy.

Carmen:

Like, little pressure talking to her. Like, I cannot just share with her that she needs

Connie Smith:

to find

Carmen:

out if it's good or not.

Connie Smith:

Because you are feeling what? I'm feeling judged. There you go. There you go.

Carmen:

So even if we're sheer of meaning.

Connie Smith:

But this is just an absolute beautiful example of what happens when you don't adapt to the person you're talking to.

Carmen:

Yeah.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. So this person, the hurting one, let's put it that way. The hurting one shares something with the, the the state. The hurting holist shares something with the dichotomist safe helper. And instead of being able to empathize and see where the hurting one is coming from and begin to determine what are some of these issues that we're going to have to to deal with, we are sitting in judgment.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. And we're deciding whether what they're saying they should have done or shouldn't have done or shouldn't think or or fail

Mike Banker:

or

Connie Smith:

or you know? Boy. And so what does the hurting one feel? Judged. Not heard.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. Not as a person. Rejected once again. Yeah. To see how important it is to understand where you are and where the person that you're trying to communicate with is.

Connie Smith:

Beautiful example of that. Okay. Next.

Stone:

Wait. I have a I

Carmen:

have a question or a comment in relationship to that. It was interesting when you say adjust. So if that's one safe helper to one wounded person. The interesting dynamics happens when you've got 2 safe helpers with 2 different one is a d, one is an h. Who adjusts to what and you know what I mean?

Carmen:

They're trying to they've gotta adjust to the wounded one, I guess. But, you know, they themselves are

Connie Smith:

Well, you have to learn to you don't you have to learn to work with each other. That's why it's important that even our safe helpers understand basic motivations, which is why we're teaching this to PR safe helpers.

Carmen:

Okay. Who adjusts to whom? Can I connect with all that? Sorry to

Connie Smith:

interrupt. Okay.

Carmen:

I think that okay. We can see this situation from this different perspective. So one of the perspective will be 3 of us can all step forward, lean to each other. So it's like it's like triangle. Each of person has their perspective, and we can both step further towards the center, and then just get that that that way we bring each other closer to each other.

Carmen:

So this is one perspective. And the second one that I can think of is that, so usually, people who has distorted understanding of themself or god or anything, their mind will tend to be more rigid instead of being flexible. So if they 2 so if the 2, safe helpers can both share their perspective, then that will multiply the way the hurting one see things. So that would give them more options to really, like, soften that rigid, that hardened mindset, and, you know, see things from this this different perspective. So therefore, it's not not like you have to, who have to adjust who?

Carmen:

It's like we like, it's like observation. It's a big observation of each people's mind. It's different and and then, you know, and it could be funny. It could be no. It's not funny.

Carmen:

It could be interesting.

Connie Smith:

So, basically basically, the last 4 day, 4 days of teaching is going to be how we put all these different things into play. Okay? But right now, we're already 25 minutes past the time allotted for this. So we want, the the simple answer to your question, Cindy, is that the one who is trying to communicate with the other person is the one who does the adjusting. Now on the other hand, if you're on the if you're on the hurting one side, okay, and you have to know, it helps, if you're on the receiving end of of whatever this is, not necessarily where you're the hurting one, but you're the other person in the conversation.

Connie Smith:

It's up to you to understand where you are and what you need, but you need to adapt that in order to be able to hear and understand what the person with a different orientation is trying to say to you. Okay? So everybody has a responsibility for both receiving and and giving. And sometimes, we are on different sides if we're on the giving side or on the receiving side.

Carmen:

That's a lot. That's a yeah. You have to have quick responses, and you have to do a lot of dancing sometimes.

Connie Smith:

Yes. Lot of dancing in relationships and a lot of dancing if you're going to be a good communicator. Most definitely, you're going to, do a lot of dancing if you're going to try to communicate.

Donna Marcue:

K?

Connie Smith:

You're going to be have to do a you're going to have to do a lot of dancing if you're going to be able to be a communicator. And communication is both the giving out so the other person can get it, and the receiving of it so that you can understand what the other guy is trying to tell you. Does that make any sense? Yeah. Is this easy?

Connie Smith:

No. Because you're dealing with human beings. God made us all so different and so complex and but what matters most is our heart. K? The heart is right.

Connie Smith:

Basically, you can be anywhere on any continuum and everything works because you are willing to do this adjusting.

Mike Banker:

So speaking is easy. Being understood is hard.

Connie Smith:

Very, very hard.

Mike Banker:

And I I'm saying that from the perspective of working most of the time cross culturally with Chinese. And so, so many times where I thought, oh, I said that, but I don't think they understood that.

Connie Smith:

Yep. So

Mike Banker:

so pay attention to whether they're understanding or not. I guess that's my message.

Connie Smith:

And that's why when I am teaching or sharing or what would be the the word conversating, I ask a lot of questions because I want to know what it is they hear me say. I would not recognize my belief system at all if I listen to what some other people have heard me say or quoted me as saying. Okay? So I just I I do. I I tend to do very, very well limited by people and ask questions and respond and so on and so forth.

Connie Smith:

I like to know where people are in their thinking about this thing. Because if they've already got it, there's no use keep beating the horse. You know, he's dead. It's already settled. But if they don't understand, then let me try a different approach.

Connie Smith:

Let me give a different kind of example. Let me ask you, perhaps, what piece of this is troubling you? I often ask that question. Because I can see that you're not throwing everything out, but there's something still troubling you. What might that be?

Connie Smith:

So on and so forth. Alright. Who's next? We couldn't hear

Carmen:

you, Mike.

Stone:

I need it, I think.

Mike Banker:

Hey. Sorry. Donna. There we go.

Donna Marcue:

Okay. This one kinda relates to the medicine idea that, Cindy, I believe, brought up. I have a friend who is in a prayer group, and she's of mine. And she is having some trouble not feeling well. And she's seeing a cardiologist or something, an apolinologist or something, and a urologist or something.

Donna Marcue:

And so one person in the group said, maybe you need to find out about these medications that each one is prescribing something, but they don't know what the other one's prescribing. So that's would definitely be a dichotomist way of of, medicine. Mhmm. And in fact, I have heard of, like, people will go to the pharmacy to order one of the drugs that the doctor recommends, but the pharmacist who can see the other drugs go, you can't take that with that.

Connie Smith:

Right.

Donna Marcue:

But you know? So I could see where westerners are 2 dichotomous because we don't the person can end up being harmed because someone doesn't know the whole picture.

Connie Smith:

Yep.

Donna Marcue:

So, let's see. A second one is, it's an example of holism. One gal I was working with in PR, she was starting to tell the story of of what she was hurt from. But she's describing the house she grew up in, the porch, the tree swing. You know, it was like, oh my you know, I'm like, get to the point.

Donna Marcue:

But she went through all that and then she which gave a picture in my mind, and then she finally got to what was hurting. Then when she prayed, she kinda started going through the whole thing again. So that's, I guess, where I'd like to talk some more next week when they get to the specifics is, do they need to tell the whole thing to be able to accuse or, you know, sometimes I've tried to make them get to the point, but they kind of lose their train of thought or something. So but she had to basically tell the whole picture again in her prayer, and we had just heard that whole thing. She wasn't able to just accuse him of this and this and this.

Donna Marcue:

So that's definitely holistic.

Connie Smith:

Mhmm.

Donna Marcue:

And a third one, I think this is an example of it. My husband, severed his Achilles tendon in May. So people will ask, you know, he's been wearing a boot all summer. People say, what happened? Well, I can tell you what happened in a nutshell since I'm a dichotomist.

Donna Marcue:

He was hunting and it kept getting hurting, and so it was probably starting to tear. And then he was outside doing some yard work. He saw a mouse, and he stomped on it, and I think it split. So that's the short answer. His answer as a whole is is he starts talking about first, we're in Florida and he has to close-up the place and then he has to come up here and then he has to go to the cabin and then he has to kill all the red squirrels that are eating up the cabin and then he has to go here, and then he goes to Stoddart's and does this.

Donna Marcue:

And then when he's driving back home, 10 hours, he comes home and his foot is swelled up like a balloon, and then he's in the yard, and then he's doing the yawn, and then he stops them out with, like I mean, that's a that's a short version of his story, but it's Yeah. These poor people, they just asked a question. How did you how did you hurt your Achilles, and they have a good long 5 minute answer. That's kinda interesting, but it's a lot of it has nothing to do with the Achilles.

Connie Smith:

Now you as a dichotomist are feeling what when he does this?

Donna Marcue:

I'm kinda feeling sorry for the people because some of them don't wanna hear all that, and they stand there politely. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they don't mind. I don't know.

Connie Smith:

Well and but what about those who are homeless?

Donna Marcue:

Yeah. They probably enjoy it.

Connie Smith:

Oh, wow. Yes. Okay. But look how it frustrates you. So if you're a wholest and your safe helper or the person that you're trying to communicate with is more dichotomistic, then what are you going to have to do?

Connie Smith:

You're going to have to be in control because now you know what it is, and you're going to have to adjust a little bit. Or but once they start to get the glazed look in the eyes Yeah. You're gonna have to learn to recognize that and cut your story short. I remember one time, this is, to me, just a a real example of those who wanna hear and those who don't. We've been, out of states for about 5 almost 5 years at the for this visit, and we were back in the states.

Connie Smith:

And, we went to this big church that this church that had been supporting us, one of the churches that had supported us. And and, this woman came up and she said, oh, it's so good to have you home. Blah blah blah blah blah blah. How was your trip? And I said, it was just fine.

Connie Smith:

Thank you so much for asking. She asked a question. She really wasn't interested in the in the details, so I didn't give her the details. I knew I could discern, not that I'm so good, but comes with practice when you're dealing with people. And and that it was her polite way of saying, hi.

Connie Smith:

You know? Some people say, well, you will go into a doctor's office, and they say, and how are you? Fine. Thank you. Okay.

Connie Smith:

Now we're all set down. Now tell me what's wrong. Because the run is a rhetorical question of greeting. It's a simple greeting. How are you?

Connie Smith:

It's not a seeking up information. So that's all part of of learning the other person's culture, the other person's language, so on and so forth. Well, we'll get into that too. Alright. Who's else?

Connie Smith:

You're, mute muted again, Mike.

Mike Banker:

Doctor Randy, you're up.

Connie Smith:

As I think about this, my in my in my archives, I I remember, talking with a with a gentleman in Estonia. It's when I was when I was living and ministering in Estonia with my wife, and I was very excited to, to, invite this gentleman, to come on board with me. I was gonna pay him a little bit, and and, we were talking. And then I I I made this this great pitch, you know, and vision, a big and a nice deal, for him. And I had this anticipation.

Connie Smith:

You know? I'm like, for sure, this this guy's gonna say yes. This is such a great opportunity for him. I'll never forget because he, he looked at me and he asked me a question. And he said he said, so, pastor Randy, he said, how much time, do I have to make a decision?

Connie Smith:

I'll never I and I I I still you know, I learned something about, Estonian culture, on that day. And I

Connie Smith:

Guess what?

Connie Smith:

Which was, there I was. I I I I had the overall picture. I I had I created vision. I'm like, I I was convinced this guy is gonna say yes. But the Estonian culture, they're very careful, very distrusting.

Connie Smith:

I didn't know that at the time. I learned that later. I learned that also through this experience that, that my goodness. I said, well, how much I asked him how much time would you like? He said, how about 2 weeks?

Connie Smith:

I I was inside. You know, I didn't let it show, but I was appalled inside. I was like, oh my god. You you need 2 weeks? I said, it's a wonder that well, it doesn't matter what I was thinking.

Connie Smith:

Right. Exactly. I have e I have evolved. Right? I'm I'm I'm better.

Connie Smith:

But, when I when I think about when I think about the difference between the dichotomist and the holistic, you know, that

Connie Smith:

that that

Mike Banker:

story

Connie Smith:

that came to mind for me. I took a you know, my my son, Grant, he he, he grew up in Estonia, so he he was very fluent with the language, which is very rare for especially an American to become fluent. I mean, he he scored a 94% on the on the Estonian language test, and it's just unheard of. He's just was real he was really talented. So I'm sitting there, and I've and he he had some problems, needed to go to the doctor.

Connie Smith:

So had this young young doctor. He was probably 30 years old. And, so I we were sitting there, and, he said, and and he said, well, what's what's wrong with your son? I said I said, Ragie Ragie Estigelt. And so which means he speak he speaks Estonian.

Connie Smith:

And so, Grant's sitting there, so the doctors, they're like, you know, and he was not expecting. And then so my son just breaks out into Estonian, and this guy this guy goes he just, he couldn't believe it, and they rattled off in Estonian for 20 minutes. And the the the doctor looked at me, and he said he said he said, this has made my day. I've never met anybody like this before. And now I'm gonna why did I bring up that story?

Connie Smith:

I'm still trying to figure that out. You know, the difference between the the I don't know. Oh. But it it had this one had to do with language and expectation.

Connie Smith:

Yes. And what was the what was You know? His expectation?

Connie Smith:

Yeah. His expectation was that my son was gonna just was gonna just pee around. He's gonna run out of gas quick. No way. Yeah.

Connie Smith:

No way. That's right.

Connie Smith:

So Yeah. That would be what? Dichotomist or holist? To have classified somebody that quickly.

Connie Smith:

I would say that's a dichotomist.

Connie Smith:

There you go.

Connie Smith:

Right?

Connie Smith:

Right.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Thank you.

Connie Smith:

So whether he tries or not, this illustration is an illustration of dichotomy in which he made a he made a judgment he made a judgment and was almost not even willing to listen to evidence that would change his mind.

Connie Smith:

Well, he certainly got an earful from

Connie Smith:

my son.

Connie Smith:

I'll never I'll never forget that.

Connie Smith:

A wonderful a wonderful example, though, of Yeah.

Connie Smith:

Just Thank you.

Connie Smith:

Letting it take care of itself. You know? You didn't need to sit and argue with the guy or tell him about the score that your son did. Just let your son open his mouth.

Connie Smith:

Just let it talk.

Connie Smith:

The guy was open enough open enough to actually hurt him, and now we're best buds. You know? Okay. Good example. Right, you have another couple?

Mike Banker:

Yep. Michelle.

Stone:

Hey. I have to confess that I didn't finish the listening to the recording because it kept cutting off. I don't know. Vivian, did you have any problem with it? But I will go with the example that I think of.

Stone:

I one one thing is, earlier several of you talking about medicine. Connie knows that recently I had couple of surgeries, and one was done in Thailand and one was done in America. So you would think, but both are western medicine. So when I had the surgery in Thailand, because the two tumors plus, gallbladder was removed in one surgery. And after surgery, I was trying to figure out what I could eat.

Stone:

So I talked to the surgeon. I talked to the oncologist. I talked to, they have a internal medicine. They each tell me different things, and I was getting a lot of problem with my digestion, and trying to figure out what is the right thing to do, they couldn't tell me. So when I went back to the state and, our friends from church said, you go to Mayo Clinic.

Stone:

They have a team. They work together. They sit in one room to talk. So in this case, I did find, both in western medicine, but in America, somehow they work more in a holistic.

Connie Smith:

Well, at Mayo Clinic at Mayo Clinic, they work more. Right.

Stone:

Yes. Yes. So that was that's one example. The other example I think of, of course, between, when Donna is talking about your husband, I'm thinking it's just me and my husband except as a reverse. So I would be telling the story and enjoying the all the details, and to the end, he's like, so what's the point?

Stone:

He's like, what is the the story and the point? And I'm like, okay. Yeah. I I probably lost track of what the main point. I enjoy so much of the details in, so that's a example.

Stone:

Another example I think of is, because we worked with Muslim people, and I and and when it comes to, marriage or wedding, for Muslim people, it's so holistic. It's it covers every aspect of not just the personal, not just the 2 families, the community, the 2 communities when it comes to a marriage. And compared to, I will not say just, American or even Chinese, modern Chinese young people thinking marriage is just 2 people. If we love each other, we can get married and not have to worry about too much. That is kind of

Connie Smith:

Love covers all things.

Stone:

Yes. But it's not that simple in in the Muslim context. Yeah. Yeah.

Carmen:

Okay.

Connie Smith:

Alright. Very good. Thank you. Alright. Okay.

Connie Smith:

Well, very well off the cuff. You do very well extemporaneous.

Stone:

I yeah. Today, I tried to, listen, but didn't have time until this Even then, I

Connie Smith:

kept I understand the ball, but you did you got you got the points, and that's all that was necessary. Right. Thank you.

Mike Banker:

Okay. Vivian.

Vivian:

Can you guys hear me?

Connie Smith:

Yes.

Vivian:

Okay. Okay. I have been listening. I think I I I get the overall. My I would say my husband, he has many presentations of, the economy.

Vivian:

For example, he can he's very good with details and get tasks done. And, also, he love mention, you know, the my bricks. He love mention the label, you know, like, the personal the personality type that he is. So he keep going back. It's like, oh, you know, because I am this.

Vivian:

That's why I'm doing this. Uh-huh. My That

Connie Smith:

that will get

Vivian:

Yeah. My whole time is kinda like, no. Human it's human. You know? Everyone's unique.

Vivian:

You know? It's it's not in the box. But he's thinking it's also, like it's very black and white. You know? I am this.

Vivian:

That's why I'm doing this. I'm the opposite. For example, every week, we will talk to, his parents, my parents in law, every time when they ask a question, oh, how's your week? He just used one sentence and finish it, you know, give a conclusion or end result. But I would like to, oh, okay.

Vivian:

Let me share the story. I will share, like, the context and big picture, you know, what happened, all the ups and downs and the turns, you know, all the exciting things at the end. And then I throw out, you know, what's the end result. So, like, this is yeah. We are very different.

Vivian:

He's he has many, presentations of, dichotomy, and I have many presentations, holist holism. And our daughter, I can she's still young, but I can see some presentations of her being more like me. For example, when I asked her something like, oh, do you want to go to this mall, or do you want to go go to this place? He always like, oh, let me think. She's listing out all the goods and bads and what she likes and what she doesn't like.

Vivian:

And it's like, oh, I don't know. What do you think I should think I I should choose? And then when I answer questions and narrow it down, then she say, okay. I think I'm gonna do this. So but next time, she may change because she see things more, you know, a bigger picture instead of, like, right now, I'm you know, this is what I want.

Vivian:

So, yeah, this is a fun combination of our family.

Connie Smith:

Very good. By the way, good example of family dynamics. And, actually, your daughter, Jamai, is a good example of what we're going to be talking about today. Alright. Who else?

Mike Banker:

Okay. So I guess, I guess it's me. Am I up? Yep. I guess so.

Mike Banker:

Carmen, you went already. Right? Yep. Okay. So, I had so many thoughts on this.

Mike Banker:

Actually, I struggled to to narrow things down. But one thing one example is when I started doing sessions in China, relationships are so important in China. So, like, you ask about some sort of incident, and what comes out is a story about who's related to who and what their relationships are like. And it goes on for maybe 10 minutes, before you actually get to the story.

Carmen:

Yeah.

Mike Banker:

And so relationships are very important in China. So I learned that if you cut that off, actually, it interrupts their flow. They they can't tell the rest. So so this is a they're more holistic than I am when it comes to talking about incidents. And so that's one thing I learned.

Connie Smith:

We'll also get to more of of why that is important to them, when we talk about, how we accomplish, how we strive towards something, how we work towards something.

Mike Banker:

Okay. The second one is, in China, the separation between a teacher and a student is huge. Mhmm. So here I am trying to do sessions together with a student as my coworker. But what that normally means is that the my coworker never says anything because, you know, deferring to the teacher.

Mike Banker:

So so this was like pulling teeth to get them to speak when I'm their coworker. And so they have this very dichotomous view. Teacher and student is a huge gap between the 2, and you always defer to the teacher. You always let the teacher speak first. And it doesn't matter if you have something you have to pour out of your mouth.

Mike Banker:

You can't say it if the teacher is there. So, it's very controlled. So getting to work together as colleagues was extremely difficult.

Connie Smith:

And that issue that issue, we'll talk about when we get down to the one on performing.

Mike Banker:

Okay. So I'm not crazy.

Connie Smith:

Yep. At least that that was not evidence of it.

Mike Banker:

Good. Appreciate it. Yeah. So, anyway, that was so I I would do things to to try to minimize the gap between me and them as teacher. And, one student would call me, a shifu, which means master.

Mike Banker:

And you're supposed to say, tudi, which means, disciple. But instead I'd say tudo, which means potato. And she knew I I was doing that on purpose. So after a while, she stopped saying that. But then when she would teach, she said, I know this, this foreigner with a long white beard, and he would say, so she'd always make reference to me in an indirect way after that.

Mike Banker:

But but anyway, that was a very dichotomous thing that I learned. My third one is I tried to put my children on a scale.

Connie Smith:

Each one?

Mike Banker:

Yeah. I have 6 kids, so I thought, okay,

Carmen:

which one's

Mike Banker:

the most dichotomous? Which one's the most holistic?

Connie Smith:

Mhmm. I

Mike Banker:

was able to land 2 of them quite quickly, actually.

Donna Marcue:

Mhmm.

Mike Banker:

My son Nate is very black and white. He's right, so listen. And when he jumps into an ism of some sort, like at one point he was really enthralled with communism, he's in all, both feet and everybody else is wrong. That's kind of his and then he switched to Christianity, a different ism, and now, he's all into he was all into Christianity. So he is very he's the most, dichotomistic.

Mike Banker:

And then on my other end, I have another son, Andrew, and he's the most holistic. You can't pin him down on anything. He doesn't put anybody into any category. An example of that is, even like religion, to the idea that you have to be Christian to do good things, this idea doesn't exist in its head. You're a person, and you have a choice to do good things.

Mike Banker:

And it has nothing to do with, you know, whether you're Muslim or Christian. So he he, every everybody's in one box. There's no boxes. So, anyway, I'm I'm still trying to figure out where the other ones land and why, but, it's an interesting exercise with 6 kids. It's it'll take me a bit to sort out the rest.

Mike Banker:

But, and then the last one. One thing I often say to Denise, this is just me, I say there's a there's boxes. Nobody told me there's boxes. Okay. That's a very holistic statement of

Connie Smith:

Yes.

Mike Banker:

No. I didn't know there's categories. Really? There's categories? Who said?

Mike Banker:

Who decided? So so I at times, I'm very holistic and myself in this in this way. So yeah.

Connie Smith:

And the thing that's interesting to me is that he is a a engineer by trade.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. Which should be more dichotomous.

Connie Smith:

Yes.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. Well,

Vivian:

in that regard, I can relate to my because my background is also, you know, like, electronic engineering. But, you know, but I'm also, holistic. And when people ask me, oh, what domination do you belong to? And I don't care. And I don't even want to I don't even have any eager, like, oh, I need to belong to a domination so that when people ask me, I don't feel odd and funny.

Vivian:

So

Connie Smith:

yeah. Yep. I always answer that with, I'm I'm nondenominational, or I will say I'm interdenominational. Yeah.

Mike Banker:

There there was one sister in a session that every time we met, she'd say, so what zodiac sign are you? Which Chinese zodiac sign?

Connie Smith:

That's another one.

Mike Banker:

Okay. And I would never answer. And then it was like the 5th time she asked. I said, when I was born, all the stars were out.

Connie Smith:

Debitifully done. Debitifully done.

Mike Banker:

Very holistic answer too, but I had other motives for not answering that.

Connie Smith:

Exactly.

Stone:

But during the, you know, Trump, the the election time, I we were back in the states, and there's one sister from a church kept asking us. So who do you vote? She has to make sure that I'm on the bar. And I said, if you are interest, come over. Let's sit and talk.

Stone:

I don't wanna just give you an answer. And she's just frustrated. She kept asking, tell me which one do you

Mike Banker:

Yeah. A great answer. I like that.

Connie Smith:

Yep. I like that. Okay. Alright.

Mike Banker:

Alright. Let's see. I think we got everybody. Right? So

Carmen:

Do you see share? Cindy. Cindy. Sherrod?

Mike Banker:

Oh, Cindy, did you share?

Carmen:

No. But that's okay. I'm not I mean, I was thinking in the middle of time. That's alright.

Mike Banker:

I'm sorry. Your box moved on me. So because you came back online. So go ahead.

Carmen:

Okay. So I looked at my family, and my, one son is, he's let me just find where it is. He is, can't see the forest from the trees. So his goal, is to make as much money as possible teaching. But and so he has taken up on you know, he has he has a a job which can completely pay for his living.

Carmen:

However, if his goal is to make as much money as possible teaching, he he needs to get his TEFL. So instead, looking at the big picture, I need to get my TEFL in order for me to earn money. He takes on all these jobs. And so he can't see the forest on the trees. So he's he wants to make as much money as possible now.

Carmen:

But the but to but to make the more money, you need to have more education. You need to have the degrees or whatever. But he's so caught up in the moment, so he can't see the forest from the trees.

Connie Smith:

Very well very good at, illustration of that. Very good illustration of that.

Carmen:

However, the same son has been saying for years that he is going to get his driver's license. And so in order to do that, of course, you've got to go sign up. I mean, he talks about it. He goes and even he's talking to somebody. He's got this job interview, and he goes, oh, and I wanna know if, like, is it possible to drive in that city?

Carmen:

Is it easy to, you know, you know, get a car and do all these things? And I'm I'm sitting here like this. You don't even have your driver's license. Like like, what are you talking about? Like and and your father has given you so many opportunities to take you out driving.

Carmen:

Never you always go, no. I don't wanna. No. I don't wanna. So so, you know, he like, Scott ends up driving him.

Carmen:

So here's an example of, like, he sees he sees this thing, but then he can't break it down in order to take the darn steps. You got to apply, then you gotta pay, and then you gotta go. And then you gotta schedule your well, you gotta schedule your time so that you can make it happen. So this is a this is a, an example of a 1 in 1 person. He cannot see he's a d and then another instance, he's an h.

Carmen:

And so, and so it is very but then I just wanted to make one comment about on the h side. When he because he's so d, he's extremely black and white. The h side appears to be h because I think there's anxiety. There's anxiety that causes the, the like, normally, he would be able to, like, you know but because it's so anxious filled, like, for him to go do these things, then it then it appears that he well yeah. Right.

Connie Smith:

And and so here, you either have a different continuum working or you have a person who has some, misbeliefs about himself and the world around him. Yeah. So it is a

Carmen:

very so my challenge as that mother communicator or the father communicator is to try to communicate in a way you know, when you're when you gotta get past all that snow and the snow you know, this the the the the noise is anxiety. And so the noise is, you know, his his, there are other factors going around. Fear. Okay. That's another thing.

Carmen:

You I mean, that there's so much noise in

Connie Smith:

All of these things have to be taken into consideration. And all of these things need to be addressed. And that is why it takes a while to get through a person's life or to begin to understand a person is that you can't just say, well, he's that. And so no, we are motivated by all 6 continuums. And what we're kinda talking about in this last issue is down here under preparing, under this careful and casual.

Connie Smith:

And, there's, anyway, we'll talk about how to deal with some of these, on those last 4 days. But this is you brought up a a very, very good illustration of how knowing about 1 or 2 of these continuums isn't really enough. And maybe it isn't about the motivation. It maybe it isn't about any of these continuums. Maybe it's about a lie that he believes about himself

Donna Marcue:

or some

Connie Smith:

lies he believes about himself.

Carmen:

No. It's still complex. No. You're right. You're absolutely right.

Connie Smith:

But, those are the things that that we have to work with. And the other thing out of all of this is that we have the tools to do that. We have the tools of PR. We have the tools of you don't have to be a safe helper in order to use these tools. You can even use these tools on yourself.

Connie Smith:

Imagine that. But, we have these tools now of, basic motivation. We have scriptures that we can go to. We have medical books we can read. We have we have access to a whole lot of things that can help us, but you brought exactly the kind of thing where something comes in conflict with something else, even in the same person.

Connie Smith:

Uh-huh. Yeah? Okay. Well done. I I do believe that, maybe I'm overthinking it all, but I do believe that, you've got a pretty good grasp on these two continuums.

Connie Smith:

So today, I think it is time, before we start. We're going to be talking about deciding how we go about choosing or leading or receiving direction and that kind of thing. But before we start, Mike, let's go ahead and take a break. And,

Mike Banker:

okay. So let's take 5, and, let's keep it to 5, though. We're gonna start 5 whether you're back or not.

Donna Marcue:

I guess, I'm gonna say I said Cindy instead of Carmen. Carmen, you were the one that had the medical example. Sorry. I had the wrong name. Okay.

Donna Marcue:

Take a break.

Mike Banker:

Okay. Take 5.

Connie Smith:

Here. Another one of those distractions. Mhmm. Okay. So, anyway, I don't know what to do about it except to leave it as it is, I guess.

Mike Banker:

So, Connie, you sound just fine now. We can hear you clearly now.

Connie Smith:

Okay. So, anyway, my point, is that this must be important because there are so many distractions.

Carmen:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

And the it just you know, here's another one. I've never had this happen before in all my Zoom meetings. And I know that I can probably just click on something and everything will all be good, But I don't know what it is. So, anyway, we will continue.

Stone:

But we still didn't hear you. What happened this morning? Was it

Connie Smith:

I got a phone call that just added another interference, not interfere distraction to something that

Mike Banker:

Isn't that interesting? It keeps breaking up when she wants to share what happens.

Stone:

I know. That's why it would make me more curious,

Carmen:

like, oh, that's interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

Mike Banker:

So, Connie, you broke up again. I don't know if you can hear me, but here I'll send a a note maybe.

Connie Smith:

Now we're back, and I didn't touch a thing.

Mike Banker:

Okay. Well, apparently, whatever happened this morning is important because he got cut out. Was it the 3rd time?

Connie Smith:

Yeah. Anyway, I do believe that that AI is with us, and it's embedded into all this technology, and that it decides what it's going to do, not us. Okay. So what I was just speaking that there was another distraction, big distraction, again this morning. And that I got a call that woke me up even before my alarm.

Connie Smith:

And I it was something that needed to be handled right now. And I just told them, well, it cannot be taken care of until this afternoon. And he's was insistent, well, can you have a friend go and take care of this? And I said, it can be handled not until this afternoon. So do you not have anybody that you could have go take care of this?

Connie Smith:

And I said, we will take care of this this afternoon. Good for you. And,

Donna Marcue:

you

Connie Smith:

know, so getting wakened up. So all I'm saying is that there's there has been so many distractions that this is as Frank said, it has to be important. Alright. So now we're going to talk about the third one of these things, which is that of, how we go about either deciding something or how we, how we react to being told what to do or how we, lead, how we tell someone else what to do. And the two sides are that of directive and selective.

Connie Smith:

And the directive side says those of us with this orientation are concerned that we make the right decision. Now this is really important that we understand that a direct a really directive person is most concerned about the rightness of the decision. And if you're dealing with a Christian, the decision has to be, that has anything to do with God or that they can make have to do with God, has to be the right decision or God will not be pleased. So we're we're, oh, dear. So, so that we make the the one right choice or go the one right way.

Connie Smith:

We may ask experts for advice and ask authorities for guidance. We may seek out God. We may seek out, other peoples depending on where we are on the, on the performing, yes, on the performing level, who we ask. But we're always we're always in a turmoil as to making sure the decision is the right one. We appreciate manuals and training programs.

Connie Smith:

We prefer a class where the teacher is in clear control and gives the lecture. We don't wanna hear from much here from anybody else. Many people are appalled at the disrespect we may show our government leaders. Yes. We are willing to follow someone only as long as we accept their qualification.

Connie Smith:

That one is kinda determined on where we, end up down here on this on the status given or the status achieved when they're performing. That's governed kinda by that too. But but, we, who have this very directive, do not understand the adult son in the Chinese family who still is under his father's rule. We do not understand their reverence for the past if we are this directive. Okay?

Connie Smith:

The people use the term, which means a hearing one. And those were because if you are a hearing one, it means that you not only heard what you were told to do, but you did it. A not hearing one, we would say, is a is a rebel or disobedient. To them, to hear is to respond in a positive manner. They lived in a communal house instead of the village.

Connie Smith:

In fact, the village was the communal house. And the house chief there, you had to if you could not live by what his directions for you for your day, if you did not want to follow them, then you never had a big argument with him. All you did was pick up your stuff and travel some miles to the next communal house and see if you could get along there better. But, anyway, those are kind of poor examples, but they're in here. So other end of behavior then indicates that the matzah are directive in their orientation is the way they viewed their ancestors.

Connie Smith:

Their stories often were about mythical heroes of the tribe. The hero or heroine's behavior, success, or failure was the grounds for the tribe's present action. When Rosa told me how to make a pot, she told me a story about her, so, about she told me a story about her mother who was a great pot maker. So in telling instead of telling me how to make the pot, she started with well, my mother made a pot. She would go out into the and she would gather this and she would gather that.

Connie Smith:

And it was a very complex problem, but it was done in a holistic way. Here is a person who is directive, but in her presentation, tell gives the presentation in a holistic way. You know? It can be all over. It's gonna be interesting when we start, anyway, changing these things around instead of going down just down the list.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Other let's see. A leader who is not directive, otherwise, who is not decisive, strong, and somewhat dictatorial will be seen by the by the directive person as weak, and there will be a great reluctance to follow such an incapable leader. Most of the most of the issues that we have been called in to organizations to settle with team members in that was because you had a directive a a leader who was not directive enough for the Koreans that were on his team. Very, very interesting.

Connie Smith:

Now was he sinning? No. No. No. That had nothing to do with the problem.

Connie Smith:

Were they sinning? No. That had nothing to do with the problem. The problem is that he gave them too many choices rather than telling them what to do. They were more directive, certainly much more directive than him or her was.

Connie Smith:

So, anyway, so, so there will be great reluctance to follow such an incapable leader. Many Asians are of this orientation. They have a problem with the friendly colleague type approach of some American leaders. We've we've seen this at least, I can just think right off the top of my head, 3 different, organizations that called us in to, help them solve, a leadership problem. Though they didn't know what the problem was.

Connie Smith:

But, anyway now the selective so the the the one that's on the the on the directive side tends to would tend to go with what? Holism or dichotomy?

Donna Marcue:

Dichotomy.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. And then the whole the, directive, holism, directive, dichotomy would go with what time or event?

Carmen:

Time.

Connie Smith:

Time. I know. Most definitely. Okay. So you can see how if you're looking at the at the, continuum, how they tend to the left side kinda all goes together, and the right side kinda all goes together.

Connie Smith:

And you begin to see as we get on here that one would lead into the other. Now many people, many, many, many, many people are not straight down their left side or straight down their right side, And thus, you have all these contradictions in people. Anyway, it's also interesting and so exciting because it's dealing with people, and people are really, really precious and exciting. I love okay. So selective.

Connie Smith:

Those of us with an orientation towards selective want a selection process that includes alternatives. We want to know all of the options before we make a final decision. If we do not have the opportunity to explore the options, the result is a feeling of frustration and even rebellion. Now they may not rebel, but they may have the feeling of rebellious attitude. K?

Connie Smith:

I can tell you, I I remember, I won't go into the story because I'm a long storyteller. But we were in a position at one point to see where the Lord was going to direct us next, and we were in the States. It was when our daughter was sick, and and so we didn't know when we were going back to the field and all this. So we were looking for another assignment. And, our leader gave Richard a a list of very possible things for him to groups for him to look in North America to, look for see what he might feel led to.

Connie Smith:

Well, he went this way and he traveled that way, and he called us 1 and reported to that one. And then he found out about a people group that was not listed on the list, And he felt very, very he was offended. He was hurt. He was I don't know what all, but he was angry. And I didn't even know he had this quality at all.

Connie Smith:

But I said, well, would you have chosen that one anyway? And he says, I don't know. I wasn't given the chance. Well, in the day in the end, he did go and examine these people and very definite need and very definitely a place that, we would have been very, very happy going, but, it wasn't God's place for us. So the answer chose to do no anyway.

Connie Smith:

But it wasn't a matter of whether he would or wouldn't have chosen that. It was a matter who wasn't given a choice. I always thought that was really interesting because my husband was just not offended by many of those kind of things. We prefer, we who are of this selective orientation, prefer a loose, informal teaching situation where we can share. In fact, we dislike a dictatorial leadership style.

Connie Smith:

An American woman is often typecast as selective. I mean, in in a joking manner. And that you send her on a send her on shopping for a pair of shoes, and she goes to the mall and goes from store to store to store to store with boundless energy. And at the 11th store, she checks out one more pair of shoes before she returns to the 1st store and buys the 3rd pair of shoes she tried on. She has to have again, in this deciding thing, very, she needed to see what all her options were, and then she could make her decision even though she really liked those that pair of shoes, first time she put them on.

Connie Smith:

But there might be something better down the road. Oh, I remember oh, no. Another stroke. We prefer a loose oh, I did that. We selected people are not wishy washy, but want to have some input into both the learning and the decision making process.

Connie Smith:

We are as committed to the decision as the directive person. We simply to prefer to arrive at the decision by a different route. Alright. Now let's see what this looks like. So with that in mind, what the assignment no.

Connie Smith:

Haven't well, that one hasn't been given yet. Well, let me get ahead of myself. A little bit of time there pushing me, I think. Alright. Directive.

Connie Smith:

People who are directive are concerned with the one correct way and most often want help in finding that way. Now that will depend again on some of these other continuums. So they tend to look to the expert, the one they consider anyway, the expert. That expert might be, as we'll see later, from the status that earned or the status, given. But according to who this directed person thinks is the is the expert, you know, seek advice from them because they're the ones that know the right way.

Connie Smith:

The authority is used for guidance. So if they're looking to you, you must be clear and must be specific. If you're going to give choices to a directive person, you don't wanna give them very many choices because that would mean that you don't really know the best way. You need to regularly receive assurance. The the directive person needs to regularly receive assurance from some authority that they are doing it right.

Connie Smith:

They need to be assured that they're doing it right, got it right, or had the right answer. They tend to be anxious about whether or not they have gotten it right. They like authority and guidelines to be available. Many of the safe helpers that have been launched or not is there not the right word? Who have I've made myself available to if they need help or have a question answered that gave them the encouragement to go on.

Connie Smith:

And let's see. They want these authorities and these guidelines, so they're they're always looking for the guy that did it or wrote the book on it or whatever. For them to refer back to or to refer others to are as the basis for their decisions. Because remember, it has to be the one right way or the one right, correct, whatever word you wanna put in there so that there is an an interest, for the past. So many, many of these cultures, and people themselves, but many of these cultures have a healthy respect for their ancestors, and they seek, they seek their present and their future from understanding what the ancestors did.

Connie Smith:

So we're very usually very interested in history and that kind of thing, or our ancestor worshipers. You know? But they they tend to learn from what the elders the elders did, or the solutions that the elders came to, or from the experience of the elders. And so they they hark back to what has already happened to make decisions on what decision would be right now. So their interest is, like I say, is in the past.

Connie Smith:

Others have faced similar circumstances, so they wanna hear what that was, Not just from the interest the personal interest sake, but what can I what can I gain from that as far as making my decision here? So people can learn from the successes and or the failures of others.

Carmen:

Sorry. I'm kinda little bit, just in this is a directive person. Right? Yes. Okay.

Carmen:

We're still on directive. Okay.

Connie Smith:

I read an overview of the directive and an overview of the selective.

Stone:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

And then I've gone on now to give some directive, illustrations of how this the different points works out.

Carmen:

Okay. Alright. Okay.

Connie Smith:

So, I am on the page that has the pictures on it. 21

Carmen:

is the page.

Connie Smith:

K. Okay. Sorry. I didn't print it out.

Mike Banker:

That's

Connie Smith:

alright. It's alright. The only reason I said that is that is that it's there. So what I'm doing now is I'm giving you directive, deciding declarative narrow road examples of, some examples of what the what you're going to be looking at or how they react. Nothing is really new, so people can learn from information passed on by those who went before.

Connie Smith:

For instance, they have, let's see. They're field independent in that what, that which needs to be known can be limited to just the relevant. I don't need the whole store the all the other stories. I'm looking for this direction in this so that they are let me anyway, that's specific. They're comp in competition to do it right and then you win to do it wrong and you fail.

Connie Smith:

Now as we'll learn later, careful person finds it very, very, very difficult to fail. So we're getting down there. The they also have a problem, in all of this that if I if if I did it right, it'll all be right. But if I miss if it goes wrong, then it means I didn't get it right. Can you imagine living your life under that stress?

Connie Smith:

Now, of course, in teaching, you always teach to the extreme because it's the extremes in which you see the basic differences. I don't know very many people, that don't have other problems that feed it that are extreme on either one of these. Okay? Just having to say that so we don't say, oh, that's what he is. Oh, terrible.

Connie Smith:

So formal learning with a teacher as the expert is a preferred way of learning. Self confident when secure in the direction to go. This is the right direction. It's the direction I've chosen. I'm off, and I'm confident to do that.

Connie Smith:

And I'm very competitive. Because if I'm right, I'm gonna wait. So the learning then learning is teacher focused. Now Mike was talking about, teachers and masters and and all of that. We ran across this, when we were looking for, the students were out seeking people to help them learn the language, and they would they were looking for someone who would help teach them the language.

Connie Smith:

And finally, somebody recognized, because somebody whispered in their ear, and they brought it back to the group, that we should not be looking for someone who would teach us the language, would help teach us the language. But we wanna look because a teacher has to have credentials, and a teacher has to be professional, and a teacher has to it's a tremendous amount of responsibility. So no one wants to take on that responsibility, particularly without the credentials. And so we were looking for now for someone who would help us learn the language, And we always found somebody. Very interesting.

Connie Smith:

So the learning is teacher focused. So you're not going to do a lot of if you're dealing with a directive bunch, you as the teacher are not going to do a lot of discussion or open forums or, having a lot of of of different people in with different opinions. But you you're the one that knows. So it's the teacher's responsibility to give out the facts. There are cultures whose educational system, amongst all the other things, but in the in the educational system, it's not about learning, it's about passing the exam.

Connie Smith:

So it's the teacher's job to give you everything that's going to be on that exam so you can regurgitate it on the exam. We we've run into whole cultures like that. It's the teacher's responsibility to stimulate and motivate, and the student's responsibility is to give back the facts in like form. You don't wanna give a lot of essay type questions to a directive person. An expert or an authority is needed to share the responsibility for decision making.

Connie Smith:

Oh, this this is a beautiful example here. I mean, I've got a lot of examples that on this page, but I'm I'm trying to get through this. But I just thought of this one. There's been workers in this area that we were in Ethiopia. There'd been workers in that area probably, let's see.

Connie Smith:

Was that Ethiopia? Yes. It doesn't matter. But the the workers there, they came the earliest and the largest group of of expats working in that area were from Northern Europe. And they all had a similar form of of government.

Connie Smith:

You know, you have a vice president, vice president, secretary, and so on. Usually had, at this point, when we got there, all the organizations were built on a a a 5 lay a 5 man leadership team. K? They all had the name, you know, president, vice president, and all of that. And this will show up also in some of the other continuance further down.

Connie Smith:

But, this expert authority is needed to share the responsibility for the decision making. So, Richard, now now the the Ethiopian, this is all foreign to them even though these have been put on them for probably a 100 years. So all the church groups, all the or, church organizations, all the leaders in the in these that were national, they all have these these labels, but that's not how they function. So, one day but it is important that they have some that they make a decision. So one day, Richard went to ask Atofikre, who was the president of of this group, if we should do it, to task permission.

Connie Smith:

Richard was very, very, very much for being under the national. And he functioned always functioned that way, and it was it always turned out good. But, anyway, he went to them, asked permission if we should take I don't remember what it was. Something obnoxious. Take vacation, this week or this month.

Connie Smith:

You know, this month or this this month. And the president, said, okay. I'll I'll get back to you later. I'll make a decision. And sure enough, there was none of the 4 other 4 were available.

Connie Smith:

They were all, out of the area or something on that particular day. So the president of this organization walked out and talked to the guy who is cutting grass, and they came back with the consensus that, yes, you should go at this date.

Donna Marcue:

Wow.

Connie Smith:

Consensus, not direction, not leader made the decision. Remember, it was when James reported the consensus of what went on in in Jerusalem to at the leadership of the, the early Christian church. Same thing. Very, very interesting. Following an expert or an authority's advice give gives confidence in making decisions.

Connie Smith:

Alright. Let me see if I can quickly come up with some other exam. Oh, okay. Here here is a real example. No.

Connie Smith:

He would be Yes. Okay. AutoTamera was one of the, our project in Ethiopia was training national translators, nationals training nationals to translate the Bible into their own language. And, so we worked in 2 different languages in the and, Ata Tamara was from the group. So, it was during time of war and during time of persecution and unrest and on all of that while we were there.

Connie Smith:

So many of the p of the, of the workers who lived further away would take, like, 2 week weaker or so assignments, take them and do them in their home place, and then come back, and we would go through it with living at at the center where we were. So this day, Atu Tomaru, was going to be, gone for 2 weeks, and Richard gave he didn't. He wanted Richard to lay out what he should do every day on that length, in that period of time. So, anyway, it was he was working on I don't remember what book of the Bible. It doesn't matter.

Connie Smith:

But, say Richard told him to go from chapter 2 verse 14 to chapter, say that he needed to go through, verse 14, 14. Anyway, verse 39. Okay? So, took the his instructions and went. Well, he was gone for, say, 15 days.

Connie Smith:

And on day 12, he had finished through verse, what did I say, 39? So he didn't do any more work. And when Richard asked, well, what did you do those last 3 days? He said, well, I I was just with my family. Well, why didn't you go on?

Connie Smith:

Well, you told me to go from this to this. He didn't even he wasn't even allowed by his orientation to go on to verse 40. I didn't know what you wanted me to do. So Richard had a choice of either accepting that or absolutely, reaming the guy out and make him feel even less acceptable than he already felt. So, anyway, very, very interesting.

Connie Smith:

Let's see. In the this the matzah. The matzah, there were certain words certain foods that were taboo foods, or they were taboo for certain people, Or and these taboos were were based on stories from the elders. You know? You ate of this when you were when you were sick.

Connie Smith:

You ate of this, and you died. So now that's a taboo food for, you were sick, and you ate of this food, and you died. So, therefore, sick people can't eat this food. So the sick are basically left with very, very, very little care and very little food because all of these things that are taboo to eat when you're sick. It it goes on and on.

Connie Smith:

I have lots of stories on that. We eventually had one point, when we introduced corn, I think. Whatever it was we introduced. They were basically hunters and gatherers, but they did have a a smattering of, tilling the soil. But we we had we'd introduced chickens.

Connie Smith:

That's what was it. We'd introduced chickens as a food source because it was very, very, very little meat in the area of the jungle where we were. But, anyway but if if the chicken ate the scraps of of even the people's food, then they somehow became taboo to eat because they now had something human about. Okay? So we had this kind of corn, and this field was for people corn.

Connie Smith:

And this field over here and this color corn, this was for animal food. There were things that they couldn't have if they were sick. So, well, in fact, there was very little he could eat. So for mom lactating woman was sick or a pregnant woman was sick, we gave them sick medicine, which was basically a concoction of foods. But while people couldn't have any of it, no.

Connie Smith:

No. No. That's sick people's food.

Stone:

Alright.

Mike Banker:

Connie, you've had a very interesting life.

Connie Smith:

Oh, I I tell you. It has been alright. Again, so many so many illustrations. Okay. I don't know how Richard ever got them all in.

Connie Smith:

Mainly, he was a faster talker, I guess. Now selective, selective people. So here's here's some of the different things about selective people. People who are selective like alternatives with an emphasis on the selection process rather than on the final decision. That's me.

Connie Smith:

Richard would get so frustrated with me. Where do you want to go out if he was we were going out to eat? Where do you wanna go? I don't care. Well, what would you like to eat?

Connie Smith:

I don't care, and I really didn't. All I wanted was something to eat. Whatever you chose would be okay. Very frustrating. Very frustrating to reach.

Connie Smith:

So they like a selection to choose from and various alternatives. One of the things that alright. I'll do that one next. Satisfaction comes from the selecting process. But I do want to know what my what my choices are.

Connie Smith:

Security is in selecting from various alternatives. Bitterness can come if choices are not offered or available. Frustration comes if there are no choices. One of the things that that those of us that are selective that I preach in constantly is you cannot make any decision based on assumptions. Go and get the facts.

Connie Smith:

Then you can get based on reality, now you have a chance of making a proper choice. But stop making a decision on what you assume is going to happen or what you assume that answer will be or what you assume the people the person is thinking. Anyway so that's just a warning there. So after they have chosen and this this is, this is where the struggle comes when you're working with a with someone like this. After they have chosen, their choice in turn creates more choices.

Connie Smith:

For example, Spain in or France. Which should we go visit? Spain or France? Oh, well, if we choose Spain, after all of our research, we chose Spain. Well, where in Spain?

Connie Smith:

You can't really see all of Spain all in one time. So now I've gotta go through another whole bunch of choices. Well, do I go to this city or this city or this city? Well, now that another set of choices. But another thing that happens is that I don't see this one listed, so I'm gonna put it in here.

Connie Smith:

Once they have found all that this this options out there and have made a decision today, tomorrow, they may get another piece of information. And now we have to add that to the pile. And now we have to relook at all of it all again in order to see whether we fit this one into it or whether we reject it and stay with our original. This is maddening to the other guy because you'd seldom it's so hard to make any full progress forward. But if you don't give them time to reprocess, they will always go back and say, but I didn't look at this piece.

Connie Smith:

So you may as well give them the time to begin with. Anyway, a similar let's see. Now to, another day, as it says here, another situation or a similar situation at a later time may not mean the same course of action because there's some piece of it that's different. They are discoverer they are discoverers and want to know all the options available. They're very field information.

Connie Smith:

Socializing is a part of the selection process. Identifying and learning from those around them is very important. Self reliance for learning so that they are empathetic and perceptive. They're not so much interested in a teacher standing up and giving him their the teacher's point of view. That's just one piece of input.

Connie Smith:

But what's your what's this one's? What's that one? So on and so forth. And you as my friend have just as much input perhaps as the phdqqlmysolex, y, or z labeled after your name is. You who haven't even graduated grade school, graduate all you have is high school education.

Connie Smith:

Nah. Doesn't matter. Okay. Learning nonformally through models and group involvement is the preferred way, where you're learning from those around you and they are learning from you. You're asking questions, you the teacher is just a a part of the overall guiding of all of this so that it happens decently and in order.

Connie Smith:

Teacher has their input, but more importantly are all the people around them and are learning together, and we're learning from one another. The directive person doesn't usually do that. They learn more from facts. This one learns more from experience. Hands on.

Connie Smith:

They're actually doing the thing and having it succeed or failure, the building of it and see if it stands. K. Selective people are frustrated with lecture style and stringent directives. 1 of the leadership styles that we had in in our area of, of Woodcliff was that well, in fact, in all of our experience with Woodcliff, that may not be true today, but 100 years ago when we were there, we worked with them for 35 years. But, we were never told what to do.

Connie Smith:

We were always given options because the leader was just the guy who was elected out of the out out of out of us workers to serve for that his length of time, and then he got to go back to his tribal work. Somebody else was elected. But leadership was always from the bottom up, not from the top down, which fit many of us very, very well. Some people needed the more direct, and so they were direct. We got to the point for with our, the tribal, affairs coordinator, we would get to the point where we would leave them with a list of what we hoped to accomplish during this time out.

Connie Smith:

But when we came back then, instead of, we gave them a report on what we did do and why we didn't do some of these other things. And, it it all worked very, very, very well. But we were never told what tribe to go to. We were never told what country to go to. We were never told we were given the options because they believed that god would lead us 1 by 1.

Connie Smith:

Alright. Now it didn't mean that the group didn't have rules and regulations. Okay. But that's a different a different aspect of things. Let's see.

Connie Smith:

Alright. The selected person enjoys sharing ideas with others within an informal learning situation. They like to share responsibility in the learning experience and prefer a give and take discussion type of learning. The teacher's job is to stimulate and try to corral so that something does does get accomplished. Most people are directed to a degree, but not everyone receives direction in the same way.

Connie Smith:

In leading, they tend need to be flexible so that those who are self directing get broad boundaries of freedom to work in, while those needing more supervision get closer direction and affirmation. Selective people usually need others to help them come to a conclusion of either creating a shutoff time or limiting the available choices after a reasonable time. And here is, different ways, different, groups would basically order the same thing. The British might say something like, you are graciously requested not to speak to the driver talking about the bus driver or the driver of the truck you're riding in. The German would say, you are strictly forbidden to speak to the driver.

Connie Smith:

And the Italian Italian would say, do not answer the driver. Now did did you understand what each of those were doing? So the British, would they is this directive directive or selective? Is this order, I should say? What is the real order here?

Donna Marcue:

I don't speak.

Connie Smith:

Don't speak and don't distract the driver.

Carmen:

Yes. Don't distract.

Connie Smith:

So it's a good it's a good one. But the British would say it, directive or selective?

Mike Banker:

Selective.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. Sure.

Mike Banker:

I viciously requested.

Connie Smith:

There you go. The German would be directive or selective. Directive. Very directive. You're forbidden from doing it.

Connie Smith:

And the Italian, of course, it's a play on the fact that that all Italians talk a lot and gesture a lot and, oh, we did see this. Another thing. Another story. So do not answer the driver. Otherwise, don't talk to the driver.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Let's see if we can pick out a few of these. So

Mike Banker:

So, Connie Yes. I wanna ask, how would you say it in Chinese?

Carmen:

You need to add in Chinese. If you talk to the trainer, to the driver, you are fined how much money. Otherwise, in the case, they won't listen.

Connie Smith:

Okay. So is that directive or is that selective? Directive, I think. Very directive, taking into account the basic values of the Chinese, which is the use of money.

Mike Banker:

Okay.

Donna Marcue:

Okay? I

Connie Smith:

mean, that's what I got out of that illustration. I'm not making a judgment. I'm just out of that illustration. I don't know anything about China. I love every one of them I've met.

Connie Smith:

Okay. A selective then, the choices equal satisfaction. Choice equals security, having choice. Having choice, having choice, having choice. The problem with a directive a directive leader who thinks he's being, selective to speak to his selective underlings, has a big problem when he goes to give options.

Connie Smith:

Because in reality oh, dear. Just another distraction. Alright, father. Put me back together again. What was it I just said?

Carmen:

So directive leader will

Connie Smith:

Okay. So he thinks he's doing well by giving options. The problem is is that he already knows what he wants done. So if you don't choose the option that he wants you to choose, he's all bent out of shape. But and he's upset with you, may even be very angry with you because you are not doing what he wants you to do.

Connie Smith:

But he gave it to you in a selective manner. But he was not okay with the options that he gave. So the basic lesson is never give an option to anybody that you're not okay with. Otherwise, it's not a true option. Okay?

Connie Smith:

If options are good, really, really, really good. But if you're gonna be satisfied yourself and they're satisfied themselves, make the option a true option. It really doesn't matter. You know? I say to Richard, I don't care where we eat.

Connie Smith:

You make the choice, and he chooses to go to restaurant a, and I all been out of shape because I really didn't wanna go to restaurant a. I really wanted to go to restaurant c. I don't even like the food in restaurant a. Well, how is he supposed to read my mind? So it was up to me to say, well, I don't care where we go, except I'd really prefer not to go to restaurant a.

Connie Smith:

And, okay, Richard would say, well, let's see what else is out there. So the selected person has a lot of of responsibility too. Alright. Okay. Here's a one of our fellow, cross cultural workers.

Connie Smith:

And, I hope you're picking up on the fact that I don't tend to use, religious terms, and we've learned that over the years in working in countries that are what we would call closed countries or uptight countries or things like that. So you all know what I'm talking about when I say cross cultural workers. So, okay. We had this let's see. Let's see.

Connie Smith:

That would be alright. We had this, fellow. He was all in our course, but he was also a a a fellow, cross cultural worker. But whenever he would tell a story, and he was a great storyteller about how how God led him, and he was the story always ended with him making a choice that was contrary to the directions. He's rowing down the river, and there's a fork in the row in the river.

Connie Smith:

And there's a sign that says, you know, big triangle with a x through it, meaning don't go that way. It's too dangerous. And so he would that would be quite directive, you see. And so he would always take the other. He wouldn't take that one because he was told not to.

Connie Smith:

No. You can't tell me what to do. You're not the boss of me. And every time he would end up in dire, dire, dire straits, and sure enough, god and his great mercy would save him. So the whole story was one of, oh, what a fun thing I did.

Connie Smith:

I didn't obey that rule, and God took care of me anyway, and it was such a tremendous thing. Said, aren't I a good guy? And we began to see that story after story after story was like this, and we began to confront him and suggest that all we were hearing in these stories was that every time he was rebellious, God had to now do something to save him out of it. But that was not a plus for him. It was a plus on God's side and that he had enough patience to do that with you.

Connie Smith:

But you have a rebellious spirit. Well, in reality, we were kind of wrong there. He may not have had a rebellious spirit so much as he wasn't gonna do what he was told to do because they didn't give him an option. So sometimes we can make judgments that are true. And in fact, not being in charge not being in charge himself of this orientation, he actually did end up with a rebellious spirit.

Connie Smith:

So the orientation was not a sin or anything against God. But when you don't do these things and you build up this rebellious spirit, hey, God has a lot to say about that. So some of these things can lead us into because we're not we're in control, but we're not we choose not or have not gotten to the point we're in control of our own of our own selves. And so that orientation, when we flaunt it or we don't control it, can lead us into doing bad things or even sinful things.

Stone:

Yeah. Connie,

Connie Smith:

I was gonna is not wrong. I'm sorry.

Stone:

No. Connie, I was going to ask, comment on earlier you had the example of the bible translator who only went to verse 39.

Connie Smith:

Yes.

Stone:

And then rest of the I mean, oftentimes, we would see it as a character issue.

Connie Smith:

Yes.

Stone:

Like, if we don't understand with yeah. But it's similar to what you just the example you just gave. We have the tendency or the orientation, but if we let it kind of just be the way and not to consider other things that can become a a sin or a character issue, is it?

Connie Smith:

Well, it could become a sin. It doesn't necessarily become a characteristic. A character. Anyway, you're right. You're right.

Connie Smith:

That's exactly what I'm saying. Now with him, we didn't feel that it was anything wrong. Richard didn't reprimand him or anything. But he then did clear things up by making a statement to everybody. By the way, when you go off on your own and you have a certain passages that you're going to be translating, if you finish those, then please go on and do the next piece.

Connie Smith:

So it was all taken care of because he never did had that problem again, and and all of that. Oh, I there's there's so many stories. So many stories. Okay. Here's here's some we have in America that, are from one side of this or the other.

Connie Smith:

We have signs that say, no smoking. We have signs that say, please do not smoke. And then we have, thank you for not smoking. Different orientation. Kinda got everybody on the continuum.

Stone:

That's good.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Now it's, we have half an hour left. So I'm going to give you, we're I'm gonna open up for questions here. Be sure that you are actually reading these these summaries at at the end of each, chapter or at each continuum, I mean. Because he's, Don Losser has has gone to to great lengths of trying to provide illustrations of what the characteristic of the of the continue of that side of the continuum is, and what, when, and where situations to look for in determining that behavior and so on, and life's implications about it, and the implications for prayer resolution.

Connie Smith:

And that will give you a little bit more. And okay. So

Mike Banker:

So, Connie, can we ask questions?

Connie Smith:

Yes. We please do.

Mike Banker:

Okay. So from your description of Wickliffe and how things work, it sounds like Wycliffe attracts primarily people that are non directive. They're they're self they're self directed.

Connie Smith:

Self self directed, self motivated.

Mike Banker:

Self motivated. Yeah. So that's an example of the Whitcliffe culture is has a certain culture to it. Right?

Connie Smith:

Yes. And that that was certainly true in the in the beginning in in the days when we were in it. I don't know what it does exactly nowadays. But there was no one, even the president of WICHLA Bible Translators, was a translator who filled his slot because he was asked to do so and elected to do so. And when he finished his term of office, he went back to his tribal work.

Mike Banker:

I see. Okay. It's very interesting.

Connie Smith:

We were also very team oriented, but very, very much not like the team that came out of the eighties, the team concept. We did that many, many, many, many years long before there were team concept ever caught on. At one time in Colombia, we were working in, like, 54 languages, And I could have told you who was working in each one, who what their prayer requests were, what their difficulties were. I probably had seen at least a member of that group. We know what this term is.

Donna Marcue:

You were

Mike Banker:

in touch you were in touch with them every day, Adi. Right?

Connie Smith:

We could be in touch every day. But, basically, when we would go back to the center, we would be given opportunity to do our report. And it would be our night to report, and everybody that was there at the center would be there. So we knew about everybody. We prayed about everybody and everything.

Connie Smith:

We did not have group meetings. We did not have to sit around. Well, now I'm being negative. I don't mean to be. I'm gonna stop right there.

Connie Smith:

The team concept is great. The one thing Richard and I fought against all of our time on the field was being lone rangers. We wanted to be part of a team. Now very often in the assignments, we were the only ones there, but we had a covering. We were not out there doing our own thing, and I think God honored that.

Stone:

Mhmm. I believe. Yeah.

Connie Smith:

And one of the reasons that we that we stepped out of of what could took early retirement after 35 years, The reason that we stepped out of it is because what we were doing with prayer resolution, if we continued to do that, which we felt we should, Wycliffe didn't want us to leave. They offered Richard you can imagine that. The offers that they gave him for area directors and all this kind of stuff and all administration kind of things, or to start a whole new work in a another country. There was one country like that. But Richard always said, no.

Connie Smith:

This is not the giftings that God gave me. I can do the job, and I'll do a good job. But I will not accept that position because it's not what I feel God wants me to do. So we would have had to if we kept doing this, we would have had to Woodcliff has a, head at that time. I I'm I'm not acquainted with what they do these days at all.

Connie Smith:

But we had a counseling department, and we had a pastoral care department. And when Richard, asked them when we were getting ready to, go on to a net next assignment, He wrote and said, if we came and got the credentials, and he explained what we were doing in prayer resolution, would we fit into the culture And

Stone:

it says goodbye now.

Connie Smith:

Goodbye. Bye, Michelle.

Mike Banker:

Bye, Michelle.

Connie Smith:

That, to stay in would, that no. We were told we were not doing counseling. We were doing pastoral care. And so we knew that if we stayed doing this, that it would bring dissension. There would be somebody who didn't like it because we were doing this, and somebody else wouldn't like it because we were doing it this way and that way.

Connie Smith:

And so we have always felt very strong, very strongly, that God is not pleased with us stirring up dissension. And so that's why we took early retirement. And thus, we ended up with Cross Resources as our and its board of directors as our government. Okay. Questions.

Connie Smith:

Directives, selective.

Carmen:

I'm curious about everyone's score.

Connie Smith:

Oh, did they have that? Data scores. Oh, dear me. See? Alright.

Connie Smith:

Let's go around whoever's left.

Donna Marcue:

Okay.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. So let's see. What's what's yours?

Donna Marcue:

Mine? Let's see. I gotta look. I know. Oh, who are you talking to?

Donna Marcue:

I'm sorry.

Mike Banker:

Donna.

Donna Marcue:

Okay. I'm directive 13.

Connie Smith:

K. So pretty strong on directive. Definitely directive and orientation, high end of this score, you are becoming prone to excessive directive focus. K? Alright?

Mike Banker:

Okay.

Connie Smith:

Next?

Mike Banker:

Next is Carmen, I guess. Yeah.

Carmen:

I am 6. That seem like a

Donna Marcue:

not surprised. Oh,

Connie Smith:

okay. It's Carm it's, Stone. And you are what number?

Carmen:

I'm 10.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Who was the Slaney. Who was the one that was after Donna?

Carmen:

Carmen is, 6.

Connie Smith:

Okay. So, Carmen is a 6, so she's quite selective, and that is spot on. Spot on. I think it's very, very good.

Carmen:

Follow is what?

Mike Banker:

Oh, I'm I'm, oh, Cindy, what's yours?

Connie Smith:

I am we missed, I missed Stone.

Carmen:

You muted. Stone Stone

Mike Banker:

is oh, sorry. Stone is 10.

Carmen:

Yeah. I'm 10.

Connie Smith:

Okay. So so

Carmen:

I'll make sure. Little little bit lean to selective. But I think that I'm more selective than I expect, than the score.

Connie Smith:

Mhmm. Okay. You're approaching a directive orientation. Okay. Alright.

Mike Banker:

So, Cindy?

Carmen:

No. No. I'm I'm more selective orientation.

Connie Smith:

Yeah.

Donna Marcue:

Yeah. K. So

Carmen:

Sorry, Cindy. 10.

Connie Smith:

Yep. Cindy's a 10 beginning to show signs, but you're still you guys are still tending towards selective. You see that arrow that's supposed to be the middle point?

Carmen:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

So you're tending like I said before, that's the thing I go by. And but you're you're not all the way over selective, but you're tending you have a little bit of of directive tendencies. And maybe in your giving directions or maybe in your receiving them or something like that that you are more directed than being the receiver of. That depends on on you. Okay.

Connie Smith:

Who else?

Mike Banker:

I'm a I'm a 9.

Donna Marcue:

Mhmm.

Mike Banker:

And, Connie, what are you?

Connie Smith:

I'm very I was a 9 on this one. This this one always reminded me of all the tests that Richard has taken over the years. He is always a red leader, and I have never come out as leader. But it's because I only become I feel somebody needs to take charge and lead this thing. So if a leader isn't available or somebody else is gonna do it, then I can step in.

Connie Smith:

But I don't seek to be the leader. You see what I'm saying? So in the questionnaires, it comes out that I'm not a leader. Well, I don't know whether I am or or I'm not a leader, but, I know I've led.

Mike Banker:

So, Kyle, I think that you're, you're a leader if somebody's following you. So I think if you turn around, you'll see a lot of people following you. So I think that makes you a leader. It's true. That's my opinion.

Carmen:

What's the score of of, Richard?

Connie Smith:

Oh, Richard on this one would probably be, I I would I wouldn't remember, but just guessing. Probably towards 14 or 15. Probably a 15.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. I can think of one example of that with Richard. Yeah. So when he teaches, he does not want your questions until he's ready for them.

Connie Smith:

That's right.

Mike Banker:

So if you ask a question, he's gonna say politely but firmly that you'll have to wait. So it's very directive when he teaches. Yeah.

Connie Smith:

And you can tell that, it was a directive person, time, dichotomy, and he would all he would tend towards that side and, and directive when you look at the formation of the steps. Now he came up with this. He he often said it this way that the PR, the principle no. The the PR did not come out of his theological training. The the the the the process did not come out of his theological training, but out of his sigh out of his linguistic, which would be a science, out of his linguistic training.

Connie Smith:

And that is the process that was used to build the basis, those scriptural basis, and the steps was the scientific method. You have a theory. You work it through to the end, or you have a hypothesis, I should say. And you work it through to the end, and it doesn't work. So you put it aside or you tweak it, then you try it again.

Connie Smith:

And this is what we've seen as we have seen the progression of of when we've had a problem that has not been covered, we say, okay. We need to tweak something here to handle this problem because the basic the basic thing is that you learn in, at least in phonemics and phonetics of of, of, language is that or, well, any study of language is that you don't well, in any scientific thing, you do not when you have data that doesn't match your hypothesis, you do not throw out your data and go with your hypothesis. You have to have a hypothesis that covers all of the data. So even if you have a cycle a a, a religious that sounds so sanctimonious. That word religious.

Connie Smith:

I just have such a hard time even saying it. Anyway, if you have a theological let's put it that way. That sounds just so righteous and so elevated. If you have a theological belief because you see theology is simply the science of man trying to figure God out. So if you have a theo theology that says, for instance, that Christians can't be possessed by an by an evil spirit.

Connie Smith:

Well, then you run across a somebody who you have no reason whatsoever to conclude that they're not a believer by their fruit of every kind. And they suddenly manifest. Well, that kinda blows your mind. So now we have to go back and we have to kinda either throw that out and say, well, and the way way most of them most theologians in my that I've come across, their word is this is from a great mighty bible teaching. Everybody would know his name.

Connie Smith:

And the conclusion was, well, if they continued to do this, then, you know, we were talking about PR and the people in the depressive area of having them covered by this dark spirit. And the depression that felt well. If they were really believers, nothing happened. Such a cop out. Such a cop out.

Connie Smith:

That means that if you have a lady in your church who's gossiping or you as the pastor have your pornography hidden in your drawer, that means that you're not a Christian. It means that there's no need then for any of the epistles because all of the epistles were written to Christians.

Mike Banker:

About problems.

Connie Smith:

About problems that Christians have and how to how to solve those problems. Okay. Anyway, enough of that. I don't know where I got off on that with.

Mike Banker:

So, Connie, isn't, so the whole concept of systematic theology, isn't it? That's very dichotomous, actually.

Connie Smith:

Oh, yeah. Well, it's it's not only dichotomous, but it's still a it's a scientific. I don't but they don't do it scientifically. But it is simply trying to organize God in a way that man can understand it.

Connie Smith:

Right.

Connie Smith:

What is the study of of physics? It's it's simply a a a a a science of of studying physics is trying to categorize and and utilize the rules of physics that God created in the first place and then to make use of them.

Donna Marcue:

I

Carmen:

have a friend who sat down, and he couldn't apologize for a single small thing. That's quite frustrating for for me. Yeah.

Connie Smith:

And that that we will cover, in another on another topic. Another that'll be down in the click and casual. But we'll talk about that. But, anyway, any questions about this dichotomy? I mean, the directive selective.

Connie Smith:

This is hard to pinpoint. But

Mike Banker:

I I guess, I I this is just a thought. I don't know if it's a question exactly, but you have hurting ones who went through a session and they forgave their mother, for example. And then they come back the next week, and they need to forgive their mother again. Yeah. But oftentimes, I think it's new information.

Mike Banker:

So it's this,

Connie Smith:

Go ahead.

Mike Banker:

It's this person who is quite, holistic. Yep. So does a holistic person ever finish their mother?

Connie Smith:

Well, one of the things that that we have to do with holistic people is to point out or to help them realize that on Monday, she badmouthed me. On Tuesday, she didn't give me anything to eat. Wednesday morning, she hit me before, and I hadn't done anything. And Wednesday afternoon, she kicked my dog. That all of these are instances of what?

Connie Smith:

What is the what is the sin? These are just activities acting out the sin against you. What is the major sin that is here? Once they can grasp that, then they don't have to go down and list every instance they remember when mother was mean to me.

Connie Smith:

Right.

Connie Smith:

Okay? But one of the things that we're beginning to run into oh, our time is running by. One of the things that we are, are actively working on at the moment is this whole thing of the complex PTSD. We know how to work with PTSD, but the complex PTSD requires something more. And one of those mores is that it may look the same accusation, but it was received in a different way, or it was done with a different motive.

Connie Smith:

So we have to be careful that we that we that we understand what they did and what the real issue is. Because once we get there, we may end up with 10 days of talking about nothing about except accusing mother and never once really accuse her of the same thing. It just may sound the same. So one of the things that we, as safe helpers, have to do is make sure that we are clued in enough to what's going on that we don't allow them to to reaccuse. And if we do, with the understanding that I either didn't forgive on the right basis or I really didn't accuse her and was willing enough to let go of it.

Connie Smith:

But now I am.

Carmen:

Can I can I share something?

Connie Smith:

I'm sorry.

Carmen:

When I work with people who have c complex PTSD, as we as the session going on, their minds started to be cleared out.

Connie Smith:

Mhmm.

Carmen:

So before, they have severe, what we call, like, cognition disorder. So they they mind or all clogged with all kinds of lies, and they couldn't see through.

Connie Smith:

Mhmm.

Carmen:

And we even have a word for that. Like like brain fog or some kind of thing. So their mind is quite blurred. They don't have their self. So when with helpers direct them to accuse and forgive.

Carmen:

Okay. So they understand that on a very shallow level in the very beginning. And as the session going on, their their self started to coming back to them, and they started to open their eyes. They started to wake up. And once they wake up more and more, they started to see more and more.

Carmen:

So before you tell them that this what your parents did to you was abusive, and then all of a sudden they started to see the see it themselves. So it's different. And they and they then the emotions coming up. The anger, the shame, the frustration coming up because this time, they see it in a deeper level with clearer mind. And and then all the surprised emotions started to floating to the surface, and they need to accuse them on a deeper level.

Carmen:

This is what I've observed.

Connie Smith:

So this

Connie Smith:

And that's why.

Connie Smith:

And this is what I say. This is something that has becoming more and more prevalent or, not not it's becoming more prevalent. The revelation of this is becoming more and more prevalent. And so we are we are seriously studying this and, basically, Stone's been doing this. And any of us who deals with with a person with it has added whatever we've learned out of it.

Connie Smith:

But we're we're building to what now are we going to need to add to or or tweak more to the steps that we already know for different things? Are we going to have to add more steps? Are we going to have to tweak some of the ones that we have? What are we going to need? Because PR is a growing thing.

Connie Smith:

It has been from the beginning. It has changed. Yeah. The first the first PR teaching we did, we had 4 pieces of paper that we gave out to the participants. That was the syllabus.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. So I think, I just wanna throw this in there is that as PR changes, as new things are added, we we want to start with data.

Connie Smith:

Yes.

Connie Smith:

And we always started with that.

Mike Banker:

This is our focus. Now it doesn't mean that Bible verses don't matter. It means that you can't ignore the data and just focus on the verses. And so, yeah. So I'm excited that there's something new that's being added, and it's being added, Connie, while while you can add to it and help us with that process of building a

Connie Smith:

And I came across this. It had nothing to do with parental, narcissism, which that's the, way it's been taken lately. But I didn't come across this. I came across this in must have been 2022. Yes.

Connie Smith:

2022. Working with Mongolian lady and the what I would now say well, let me just put it what I would have thought of then, is the total brainwashing under the political system that was ruling our country at the time. And which now, all these years later, with her being a a believer now and having very, very good discipleship under a very well known, group and who has a wonderful beautiful Christian life going through her life. Terrible, awful things happened in her life that she did and was done to her. And here now, we're going through lies, and she she came to me with a list of 26 lies, I think, that she had identified.

Connie Smith:

I wanted to make sure that I I knew all these. So I wrote them all down. But half of those were things that I knew she didn't believe anymore. But she and and so I confronted her on this. And she says, no.

Connie Smith:

I don't believe them anymore, but they're still there. They're still there. So what more what more, father? What more can we do to take care of this? Time's gone.

Connie Smith:

And so we began to we began to look into what we should do. And, basically, right then, god gave me so we finished those 13. God had given her she rejected. God broke. And the power of and we got a truth, which she'd already believed, but she got a truth for each one of these.

Connie Smith:

We go on to the personal more personalized that you would expect. And the second one in, she said she grabbed her head, and she's of course, all of this is done by Zoom. You know, I'm not in Mongolia. She grabbed her head and she said, I cannot hear a truth because these old lies are still there making too much noise. So I said, okay, god.

Connie Smith:

You know, what do we do? And immediately, he gave me a picture, try to be real fast, of the the columns of Rome and all of this that stand strong for all these centuries. And some of them, they they held up great weights, but some of some of them now are fallen. And then you can see them laying on the ground. They're broken.

Connie Smith:

They're in pieces. They're powerless. They will never hold up anything ever again, but they're still taking up space. So the picture I got was that and then the idea. So what we asked God to do was to bring in his big cranes and take all of these pieces, these worthless, dead, powerless pieces and remove them from that belief channel.

Connie Smith:

And now we're going down to we even and bring in that big vacuum cleaner and clean out all the dust so that there's not even one and it came just like that. That noise was all gone. So that's kinda one of the things that we needed to do for the there are some of these lies that are so ingrained that even the very presence of the rubble needs to be taken care of. Some of them are light enough that they just God just takes it all away to begin with. How this is different?

Connie Smith:

I don't know. But here we had a problem. So what do we do about it? We know God has an answer. We know the provision has been made.

Connie Smith:

So what are we asking to do? Well, this is how PR has grown. They came because of people with problems. And how do we take care of this problem, father? I don't know.

Connie Smith:

But what about this one and this one and this one? And, thus, it's grown. We didn't he didn't have some vision in the night and wake up in the morning and write it all down and then run around looking for people to use it on. So it's a growing thing, and that's a good thing. We don't even some of the things we did in the beginning, we don't do anymore.

Connie Smith:

Not because they were wrong, but because we found better ways of handling it.

Carmen:

I recently Mhmm. Alright. I recently tried to pray on physical well-being for the hurting one, especially they're going through PTSD. Mhmm. I pray specifically for their neural system.

Carmen:

Mhmm. Their immune system. Mhmm. Their hormone system. Because if they've been brainwashed, their neural system has been changed and adapt into that brainwashed, recognition system.

Carmen:

So once they they might change their mind, but their newer system remain the same for quite a while. So I thought why don't we just pray for that and pray for God? Destroy the old, you know, the the the neural link. I don't know about all the, you know, biological and chemistry words, but if you have interest in that, you can search for those words. So when you pray on that, you can pray more specifically.

Carmen:

I know the Chinese name, but I don't know I don't know English. Like like the Lam system. Okay. That one I know. So we can pray for the Lam system and ask god to totally make the transfer of of your limb system.

Carmen:

And then and, you know, the other parts of your brain. So I'm pretty specific for that, and it works. I've tried with a sister. This is recently, like, my first try. So maybe we can try to see if it

Connie Smith:

will cut you off on this one, Stone. I'm

Donna Marcue:

so Sorry.

Carmen:

Sorry. Sorry.

Carmen:

I just got carried away when it comes to the

Connie Smith:

It it all so exciting. I did wanna give an assignment, and I'm going to tweak the assignment a little bit. We're going to find, we're going to take 1 person, and we're going to start to build a total profile for that one person. So take 1 person, and, take, see where see where they are, and and we're gonna make a profile. So see where they are on time and event.

Connie Smith:

See where they are on dichotomy holism and see where they are on, directive selective. Okay? Using the arrow no. That won't work. That that's anyway, you make the decision on where they are on it based on the evidence you see, whether they tend towards 1 or tend towards the other or whether heavily tending toward 1 or heavily tending toward the other.

Connie Smith:

So that tomorrow, we will want one person and in which you, give a profile of where they are as, are they time or event? Are they dichotomy, or are they directive selective?

Mike Banker:

So, Connie, can we do it on ourself?

Connie Smith:

No.

Mike Banker:

Okay. It has to be on someone else. Right? Okay.

Donna Marcue:

Yeah.

Connie Smith:

Now if someone, you know, is a hermit and can't get to anybody else okay. We'll take yourself.

Mike Banker:

So, like, we could all do it on the teacher on you.

Connie Smith:

There you I have broad shoulders. I've been called everything false. Nothing sticks. Alright. So chameleon.

Mike Banker:

Let's see. I can't remember who has prayed before. I think Carmen did yesterday. And Stone, have you prayed yet?

Carmen:

Not yet.

Mike Banker:

Why why don't you pray for us as we close them? Okay.

Connie Smith:

I'm sorry I took so long.

Mike Banker:

No. No. No. No. We

Donna Marcue:

Thank you, dear. Mhmm.

Mike Banker:

Go ahead.

Carmen:

Thank you. Thank you, Javier, father, for for the wonderful time that we have together, and thank you for, Connie as the as the director and the teacher and us as the students and audience get together. And thank you for the unity. Thank you for the protection. Thank you for holy spirit's leading.

Carmen:

We thank you just for all the blessings that have been given to us, and we always thank you for all the opportunities that we can pass on those blessings to others. And please help us to be refreshed and be renewed by those, by those materials and informations so we can know how to be blessed and bless each other, in the future. And please take away all the all the tiredness. Let let let each of us be refreshed and have have decent rest. So, and keep fitting in fitting in Connie, fitting in each of us.

Carmen:

And, also, please protect for the next session tomorrow morning, and, bring us back, in the name of Jesus. Amen.