The EcoSend Podcast

"Consumerist society has all of it, but Nature, Nature has no Marketing budget." 🌳

We were thrilled to welcome Rebecca Heaps for the penultimate episode of the EcoSend Podcast with our host, James Gill.

Rebecca is a fantastic advocate for the Regenerative Business movement, and is pioneering the sharing economy with her platform Tentshare - also known as the 'Airbnb for Tents' πŸ•οΈ

In this episode, Rebecca taught us a ton about:
πŸ“š The Concept of 'Use Intensity', and how this defines whether a purchase is wasteful, sustainable, or regenerative.
πŸƒThe importance of facilitating equal-access to Nature.
πŸ‘ Creating a business focused on the Triple Bottom Line; Planet, People, Profit.
βš–οΈ How she worked with CampLight to save 85 tons(!) of carbon during the recent festival season.
... and much more! ✨

This was an incredibly uplifting episode, you really get a sense of Rebecca's energy and her passion for Tentshare's mission πŸ’š

So sit back and soak up this heart-warming episode, as Rebecca takes us on a journey through the sharing economy, and how we can move towards a future of Regenerative Businesses. 

About Rebecca Heaps:
Rebecca Heaps is a passionate advocate for regenerative economies. As the driving force behind Tentshare, a pioneering sharing economy platform, Rebecca encourages affordable camping by facilitating the sharing of camping equipment within local communities across the UK. Additionally, she serves as the Director of Camplight Cooperative, successfully reducing tent waste and increasing efficiency at 13 festivals this year.

Further Resources from the episode:
Tentshare Website:  https://www.tentshare.co.uk/
Tentshare on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tent_share/
Tentshare on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/tentshare.co.uk
Tentshare on X: https://twitter.com/Tentshare1

Music credit: bensound.com

Creators & Guests

Host
James Gill
CEO of GoSquared
Guest
Rebecca Heaps
Rebecca Heaps is a passionate advocate for regenerative economies. As the driving force behind Tentshare, a pioneering sharing economy platform, Rebecca encourages affordable camping by facilitating the sharing of camping equipment within local communities across the UK.

What is The EcoSend Podcast?

Our journey into the world of being a truly climate conscious business. Join us as we talk to fellow entrepreneurs, founders, marketing folks, and campaigners to help us build our new product, EcoSend: the climate conscious email marketing tool.

Season 3 Episode 9
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[00:00:00]

[00:00:53] James Gill: Hi there, I'm James and welcome to another episode of the EcoSend podcast. The EcoSend Podcast is a weekly show where I am talking to people who are leading businesses, a leading change in the world, and really focusing on trying to make the planet a little bit better. This week, I am thrilled to be joined by Rebecca Heaps of Tentshare. Now Rebecca is a passionate advocate for regenerative economies as the driving force behind Tentshare a pioneering sharing economy platform, Rebecca encourages affordable camping by facilitating the sharing of camping equipment within local communities across the UK. Now Rebecca, I'm thrilled to have you on the podcast. Welcome to the show.

[00:01:36] Track 1: Thank you

[00:01:37] James Gill: Good to see you today. How are you?

[00:01:39] Track 1: Yeah good thanks and really pleased to be here. Thanks for the invite.

[00:01:43] James Gill: Awesome. No, it's great. Great to have you on the show. So, rebecca, in your own words, what are you up to? Tentshare sounds awesome. I haven't been to many festivals recently. I haven't been to many festivals. Full stop. But I feel like I should be, I feel like I'm, I'm not cool enough lately. Tell me how, how, that's the main reason why I, I've, I keep thinking I'd have a tent, but actually really, there's a lot of reasons why you might have a tent, I guess.

[00:02:04] So. But yeah. Tell me more about what you're up to, Rebecca. I'm keen to hear.

[00:02:09] Track 1: Yeah, so we do have a festival arm to the Tentshare model. But how, how it really started was by I, I wanted to rent out my own bell tent to make a bit of extra money and started to do that and it was doing fairly well. And then I thought, oh, I'll put it on a platform just like Airbnb, but for tents.

[00:02:27] And one did not exist. There isn't one.

[00:02:30] And so I was moaning about that to someone and they said to me, 'why don't you stop , stop moaning about it and get on and, and do it?' So, and that's how our Tentshare came into creation. So it's been created so that anyone who owns a tent can put their tent onto the platform and rent it out to earn a bit of extra money.

[00:02:48] But also more crucially is that they are allowing someone else to getting access to camping equipment and kit to be able to access nature more affordably. You know, you do get the added bonus of getting a bit of extra income from something you already own, but it's getting other people to be able to access camping and, and therefore nature really.

[00:03:10] So, yeah.

[00:03:11] James Gill: That's actually, that's amazing. So yeah, there's, there's two very, there's a bunch of different aspects there to why Tentshare is a great thing to exist in the world. And now you mention it. I've not really done a lot of Camping before mainly 'cause I'm like, 'oh, I need all the stuff and I need, I...'

[00:03:28] Track 1: exactly.

[00:03:29] James Gill: this extra equipment.

[00:03:30] So, well now I am far more aware of Tentshare

[00:03:34] Track 1: Yeah. if you...

[00:03:34] James Gill: ...to remove that excuse. I have...

[00:03:36] Track 1: exactly . So if you wanna go camping, pop on the Tentshare platform and, and choose the tent that's fit for your, you know, trip instead of buying one. That may, may be good for that trip, but maybe not good for the next trip. You, you get access to all the different types of tents, James. So, yeah.

[00:03:52] There's no excuse now. I, I can't wait to see you out camping.

[00:03:56] James Gill: Yeah, no pressure. Now the next podcast will have to be in a tent on

[00:04:01] Track 1: Yeah.

[00:04:01] James Gill: Go a bit more remote. Yeah. That's, I thank you for the explanation. I think that sounds awesome. I hope, I'm sure many people listening or watching will be quite keen to check it out actually airbnb for tens.

[00:04:13] Track 1: Yeah, I was gonna call it when I was thinking of the name for it before I landed on tent share. I was gonna call it Fresh Air Bnb.

[00:04:20] James Gill: Oh yeah, that is...

[00:04:23] Track 1: that's really good. But I was like, I can't face the litigation of that

[00:04:26] James Gill: Yeah. And more lawsuits

[00:04:27] Track 1: Yeah.

[00:04:28] James Gill: down that path. But I like, I like that too.

[00:04:30] Track 1: It is a good name, isn't it? I, I, I wish I was a bit braver on that, but yeah.

[00:04:36] James Gill: Amazing. can always get in the domain, I guess. Redirect it. Yeah.

[00:04:39] Track 1: Oh yeah, that's true. That's true; one for the future.

[00:04:42] James Gill: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, so mentioned how you sort of stumbled into running, or I say meant in a mean way at all, like how you ended up running Tentshare.

[00:04:55] Did you already have a passion for the, the environment, the climate as well?

[00:04:59] Or did, did one follow the other? So like, what was your journey to, to that point? Because I guess maybe many people come across that challenge. Not many people take that extra leap to actually go and set up a whole around it.

[00:05:13] Track 1: Yeah, absolutely. And I I have thought about that and I've always been interested in the environment. I've always been very conscious of, of tr treading softly on, on the earth as it were.

[00:05:24] But never really known how to address that. So I have a, another business family owned business but. My, one of my things that I try and do with that is add in eco-friendly options.

[00:05:38] But that's like a, a retrofit for, for family business that's already up and running. So when I created my own business, I was like, right, this is brilliant because I can do it my way. And I I always have worked on the principles. In fact, they're Quaker principles, which are peace truth equality, integrity and simplicity, and so.

[00:05:59] James Gill: Right.

[00:06:00] Track 1: That's embedded in Tentshare's values. And it's it's part of how I live my life. It's also how Tentshare has grown. Those, those values are totally embedded, which means that, of course it's gonna be a social enterprise, of course it's gonna be looking after the earth.

[00:06:18] Because that's what, you know, that's what I believe in. And yeah, taken from, from the Quaker principles, which I think anyone can live their lives by that. I'm not a Quaker, but anyone can live their lives by those principles. The five principles, and you won't go far wrong, I reckon.

[00:06:34] James Gill: That's, that's amazing. Yeah. I, you know what, I, I have to admit, I wasn't actually too familiar with, with the, fact that there, that, with those five principles as being, being part of that, so what were they again, just to clarify,

[00:06:47] Track 1: So I try and remember it by I think it's pests, peace, equality...

[00:06:51] James Gill: okay.

[00:06:52] Track 1: Simplicity, truth oh, and integrity. You know, it doesn't quite work. Yeah. Pesty.

[00:06:56] James Gill: yeah.

[00:06:57] yeah.

[00:06:57] Track 1: So, yeah.

[00:06:58] James Gill: I see.

[00:06:59] Track 1: If you, if you think about those, yeah, if you think about those, you, you, you won't go far wrong if you apply that to everything. You know, does it bring peace?

[00:07:08] Does it bring equality? Does it bring simplicity, which is sustainability? Does it have a truth to it?

[00:07:14] And then has it got integrity?

[00:07:17] James Gill: Probably need a lot more of all five in the world right now. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:07:21] Track 1: A hundred percent.

[00:07:22] James Gill: Wow. That, that's, that's really cool. So, so that's basically, you were already worth sort of approach life like that before Tentshare and, and now it must feel amazing to be running something that is truly totally aligned with, with those as well.

[00:07:37] Track 1: It is so amazing and, and I'm in control of it as well, you know, so if something comes across, you know, I do get approached by some people to maybe invest in Tentshare or do something with Tentshare and if, if I apply those principles and they're not, and they're not aligned with that, then it's a very easy no from me.

[00:07:57] Yes. Yeah.

[00:07:58] James Gill: Can sleep a lot easier at night with that as sort of your kind of checklist way of, of dealing with things in life. Yeah. I, I love it. That's, that's already tremendously inspiring.

[00:08:10] Track 1: Oh, thanks,

[00:08:10] James Gill: I, yeah. I know one of the things you wanted to talk about and I guess is very to to Tentshare was about the sort of, you call it use intensity or guess the intensity of which we use products.

[00:08:23] Is that right, Rebecca?

[00:08:25] Track 1: So yeah, I think we can all agree right now, right here, James, that we have enough stuff, there's enough stuff in the world, right?

[00:08:33] James Gill: Yeah.

[00:08:33] Track 1: If we stopped, you know, you've heard that that data, if you, if you, if we stopped making clothing tomorrow, we would be able to clothe with what we've already got the next six generations globally.

[00:08:48] James Gill: Really?

[00:08:49] Track 1: Yeah.

[00:08:51] James Gill: Wow.

[00:08:51] Track 1: So you can apply that to all the stuff we've got. We know that we know that our landfills are filling up. We know that our seas are filling up with trash. And it's all stuff. It's just stuff.

[00:09:05] And, and we've been sort of, we've been sleeping, walk, we've slept, slept, walked, is that a word? ?

[00:09:12] James Gill: Yeah. Sleepwalk.

[00:09:13] Track 1: Yeah. Into this incredible consumerist society. Which, which . Which is great for getting the economy going, which is what needed to happen post-war. So that was, that was one of the, you know, one of the things that kept, you know, that instigated this massive consumption was that we needed to get the economy going.

[00:09:32] So we were being great citizens. So we are, we are buying lots of things. Yeah, that's great. Get the economy going, make Britain great again. All of that. But what's happened is, is that we've, we've become too good at it. and, and we've forgotten that actually buying something new is not always the most joyful way and most playable way of getting what you want.

[00:09:56] And so with, so with use intensity, there's, there's a thing. So I, I always tell, talk in terms of tents, 'cause that's what I've learned.

[00:10:05] James Gill: Yeah. Well you might be the expert on that

[00:10:08] Track 1: Yeah,

[00:10:08] James Gill: Yeah, for sure.

[00:10:09] Track 1: Yeah, I worked with a carbon calculator guy called who founded no carbon, KNOW Carbon and he worked with me on use intensity and carbon cost.

[00:10:20] So what you have to imagine is it's cost a certain amount of carbon for this item, for intent to be manufactured and to arrive at the place that it's at. So for instance, a single use Festival tent is about 32 kgs of carbon to get to that point.

[00:10:37] Now, we've worked out with Use Intensity, if you use it once and throw it away, it's cost 32 kgs of carbon, right? If you use it and use it and use it, that carbon cost is decreasing. Through use intensity. So we've worked out, I say we Eamonn [Galvin] worked out that if you use it for 10 weekends, you've basically paid off the carbon cost. And then the clever thing is then if you start using it beyond that, you are becoming regenerative.

[00:11:12] You are starting to give back to the planet. And that's the power of use intensity. So instead of throwing something away and buying something new, what the key, the key to this crisis that we are in, in my opinion and in others, is to use what we already own. Use it. And use it and use it. And then when we can't use it anymore, repurpose it to repair it, to repurpose it, to clean it, to share it, to swap it, ah, and to rent it.

[00:11:42] Obviously rent a tent.

[00:11:44] James Gill: Obviously

[00:11:45] Track 1: And that's the beauty of Tentshare is that people have tents. Usually people have, if they're campers, they have a few tents in their, in their homes, which get used maybe one or once or twice a year, and they're not used again. So they're not getting Use Intensity. And what, what Tentshare does by allowing, facilitating the, the match of a, a person who would like to use a tent and someone who owns a tent, is to increase that Use Intensity.

[00:12:13] James Gill: Yeah, that's that is extremely interesting. I guess maybe coming at it from a, a novice background, I'm intrigued at that point where there's that sort of inflection point, Rebecca, like, so I kind of, I definitely get, get it where you are sort of reusing the thing.

[00:12:30] When you get to that sort of, was it 10 uses? What, what makes it regenerative at that point out? Out of interest?

[00:12:37] Track 1: Because you're not at that point, it, you've used up the carbon. It's not, I mean, it's not an exact science and I'm, I'm no carbon expert. It's, it's basically, it's got one kg of carbon still, you know?

[00:12:50] Contained in it it. I, I don't know the proper terms. We'd have to, you should get Eamonn on

[00:12:55] James Gill: Yeah. Maybe. We'll, yeah,

[00:12:57] Track 1: And so, so once you've used up the carbon cost of manufacture, of shipping, of getting it to that point, and you've used it for sort of 10 weekends, then no new tent is being made.

[00:13:11] So that's a carbon saving, yeah. And, and it's almost like, it's almost like back backwards if, if you sort of start thinking, you know, you kind of by keep using it, you're kind of giving back to the, to the planet. Plus, plus because you're not taking from the planet, you're giving back more than you are taking.

[00:13:31] That's, that's it. It's the balance.

[00:13:33] James Gill: yeah.

[00:13:34] Track 1: Difficult for me to get it, but it's about a balance. It's like you are taking, taking, taking. And once you start. Working on that use intensity you are giving back. Once you've got that balance where it's like zero carbon, you're starting then to give it back. Does that, does that make sense?

[00:13:52] I'd have to double check with Eamonn

[00:13:54] James Gill: It definitely does. And I think that that, you know, it's, it's easy to get caught up into the calculations, and I think a lot of people with this sometimes with any calculation. It's like, we want it to be this precise science, but it can vary by, there's like just such an almost infinite number of variables that can...

[00:14:12] Track 1: so many. So many.

[00:14:14] James Gill: But the high level story there is like, a tent or get a, if, whatever products you buy, the more you use it, the more you are making the best use of what are all of the resources and effort that's gone into making and the longer and more, more intense you use it, you're, you're doing more justice to that, that effort that's gone in.

[00:14:34] And I,

[00:14:35] Track 1: Absolutely

[00:14:36] James Gill: I agree with you. Makes me think of like, you know, the, in my, dad and his shed and some of the tools he has are older than me...

[00:14:43] Track 1: Yeah!

[00:14:44] James Gill: Seems like they used to make them a lot better back then. And and now it's like, oh yeah, just go down, go on Amazon and click one button and buy, buy a new thing.

[00:14:52] It doesn't matter.

[00:14:53] Track 1: Yeah.

[00:14:54] James Gill: I think it does.

[00:14:55] Track 1: It does, and especially as it's such, it's on, you know, it's on mass, it's, it's, we're buying a huge amount of stuff over and over and over again, you know, and, and there's no need for it. And what people forgotten, and this is, this is... well, I have, I mean, I have a, I have a huge vision which has mostly been inspired from the collaborative and collectives that I've, I've been in.

[00:15:20] So it's not, it's not my vision, it's a collective vision. But, you know, if we stop buying new things you say, right, well, well what are we gonna do about paying the manufacturers? What are we gonna do about all of that? And it's like, well, why don't we start upskilling them to start repairing, to start being

[00:15:36] You know, skilled repairers, skilled cleaners, skilled repurposes so that when you walk down the high street, you take your blanket. That you've purchased that maybe have cost you a bit more than going down to Primark and getting a blanket that that's a bit more, and so it's a higher quality and you take it down the high street and you go and chat to people and someone will mend it for you.

[00:16:01] Someone will clean it for you if it's. If it's been damaged, someone else will be able to show you how to repurpose that into a jacket. If it's no longer being used. And what you are doing then is you are creating like a much deeper connection with that item. So with tents, we mend them. We, we mend poles, we tents are, tents are so fixable, so polls can be mended easily. I, I'm a, I'm a fully qualified tent mechanic and I'll get to that in a minute, but...

[00:16:31] James Gill: Okay. Yeah. I

[00:16:33] Track 1: I can mend poles. I can mend tears on a tent. I can, you can re waterproof and you can solar, proof it, right? So basically all element and we can mend zips, right? So all elements of a tent are ultimately fixable for... but also what happens there is you are creating a tent that has a story. Imagine all of those trips it's been on. Imagine all of the journeys, all the adventures. Oh, remember, remember, see that tear there, which you've mended. Remember when we did that? Because like so and so,

[00:17:04] James Gill: Almost got through!

[00:17:04] Track 1: ...that line nearly got came through our tent, you know?

[00:17:07] So instead of like chucking that away saying, that's rubbish, I'm gonna get a new one, you say. This is creating, this item is creating something more than just owning a possession. You know? And then when you start sharing it with people, you're also allowing and enabling other people to have a piece of that.

[00:17:26] So it's actually, we've forgotten how joyful it is to look after our stuff and to create that kind of deep connection with the things that we own and love.

[00:17:36] James Gill: I, I think that's, so it is really inspiring to hear you say that, and I, I think it's also one of those things where I. In a lot of, I, I mean, maybe in, I'm sure in the tent industry there is, there is innovation, but I, I guess in many ways, for the most part, a tent today that is made that you buy brand new in a shop is functionally very similar to a tent that was made maybe 40 years ago.

[00:18:01] And, you know, the same can't always be said for every product in our lives. And, but you know, and, and I think about that with like shoes and, and luggage and, and, and, you know, so many things around the home, which, you know, even a sofa, it's like these things have not technically changed that much in a very, very long time.

[00:18:21] And, and it's really what's persuading us to buy that new thing. It's maybe not actual product itself, but the surrounding messaging and marketing . Status as well. So many factors.

[00:18:33] Track 1: Aesthetics. Oh, you know, I wanna repaint my living room so my sofa doesn't match anymore. What?!

[00:18:39] James Gill: Mm Yeah.

[00:18:41] Track 1: Really, know, that's, that's such a wasteful, and, and, and we forget what a privilege that is. But also don't forget, you know, it's, oh, if I want a new sofa, I should have a new sofa. Yeah, of course.

[00:18:52] If you want a new sofa, have a sofa. But think about where you are getting your sofa from, where it's coming from, and also think about what you're gonna do with your old sofa. So, you know, maybe you can give it to some, give it to someone who might like it. Maybe you can. I've got a sofa that the the bed in it didn't work anymore. And it was a, it was a bed, sofa, sofa, bed, and I put it outside. I cover it over when it rains, but so, so I sit outside on my sofa when, when I feel like it, so that's, that's like having a used intensity. It's used all the time, it's still continuing to be used.

[00:19:25] I got that. That's over secondhand, so, and it's been in my world, you know, and now it's outside, so I'm using it as much as I can before I take it to landfill, you know, and I know there's a bag company that actually uses the leather from old sofas to recreate bags. I can't remember what they're called now.

[00:19:42] Yeah, I just saw them on Instagram. But there's loads of these little enterprises that are popping up everywhere that are, are looking at this incredible resource. We have this incredible resource we have, which we call waste, which is actually a resource and it should be used, you know, so so yeah.

[00:19:58] There's, that. Yeah, that's where I'm at. And also nature is, it's really important that we start thinking about how we interact with nature and how we connect to nature. Once you start connecting to nature and step away from buying stuff, there's a kind of a shift in people's minds about what they need.

[00:20:26] And what makes them happy and what gives them a sense of wellbeing, you know?

[00:20:33] And, and that's why Tentshare there as well, to be able to create an affordable access to, to camping and, and therefore nature. So, yeah. Yeah, lots to, lots to talk about there. So, yeah.

[00:20:46] James Gill: Absolutely, and no, I, I guess I, I was maybe gonna play maybe a devil's advocate, slightly on, on something you're talking about, because I want to see a world where we all, know, myself included, I try, I try my best, but I know that sometimes you can full, foul of even your own best intentions. But how, how does one convince someone, especially in a, you know, a challenging time around the world. I think this cost of living crisis and things getting more expensive all the time when I don't want to specifically call out Primark, but they're a name that comes to mind. Like one could go to a Primark and buy a, a blanket.

[00:21:28] They probably sell tents too, I don't know, but something that's just almost unfathomably cheap versus actually spending that money and in the best will in the world, people get caught by that tag, that impulse. How, how do we, how do we tackle that? How do, how does this, the world tackle that? Because it feels like a very difficult bandwagon to get off of.

[00:21:53] Track 1: It, it does. And, and, and that's, that's exactly what I was gonna say about nature. It's like marketing has a big part to play in this mindset shift. And so nature has how, I mean, has absolutely no budget for their marketing.

[00:22:09] James Gill: That's a good point.

[00:22:10] Track 1: That's what we're, that's what we're up against. You know, if we're advocating for nature and for our planet, where's their marketing budget?

[00:22:17] Who's, who's bringing them to the boardroom? You know, where's, you know Faith in Nature is such an inspirational business. They have actually employed a lawyer to represent nature in their boardroom.

[00:22:30] James Gill: I had heard about that. Yeah,

[00:22:31] Track 1: Yeah, I saw of the, yeah, I saw one of the I dunno who it was, but she was speaking about about this, and she said, once nature came to the boardroom, the whole conversation was transformed.

[00:22:45] James Gill: Yeah.

[00:22:45] Track 1: Just everything, everything that we said had to run, be, run through. Nature and what Nature might think about that. And, and, and she said it was incredible even to the fact that everyone became more collaborative, more open to wider ideas. Ideas? And so for me, that's inspirational. And they're, and they're making the success of it.

[00:23:04] So there's a, there's a business model that's successful, you know, and that's why it's so important for me to be, for Tentshare, to be successful, to be used by everybody to prove that we can have business models that maybe are not, you know, are my, my intention for Tentshare is not to grow so that I can be a millionaire.

[00:23:24] My intention for Tentshare is to be able to scale so that we can offer many people as possible this model. And so you say about the cost of living crisis, well Tentshare steps in there. You buy a tent or you own a tent, you can start making some money from it. And plus also, the money's not going up to the fat cats. The money's staying within our local community. I'm giving, if I go and rent a tent from you, James, I'm giving you my money. We are having a transaction. We're also having a human transaction.

[00:23:57] James Gill: Yeah.

[00:23:58] Track 1: You know, and so, and so the, we kind of in this model, the sharing economy model, this circular model, we are kind of sidestepping the bigger ... this growth GDP economy, which everyone says has gotta go up, up. We have to grow, grow, grow, grow, grow. But what goes up must come down.

[00:24:17] And no one's thought about that. How are we gonna create a landing for that, for that down.

[00:24:23] James Gill: And yeah, it's, and it's, it's becoming more conscious of you know, I, I guess like everyone cares about the things that are maybe easiest to measure and you can measure GDP with various numbers, but, but you know, and I'm no Economist myself, but like, it's always making me conscious of, even with, as we were talking about carbon footprint, like we, we talk about the measurement of carbon footprint because it is one of the vaguely, natural things that we can assign a number to.

[00:24:53] Track 1: Yeah, it's a way, it's a...

[00:24:55] James Gill: There's so many other attributes here that are like very immeasurable, but, but that, would probably be a good idea if we more of, of, of some of this good stuff that's maybe doesn't quite, we don't have a way to quantify it today.

[00:25:09] Track 1: Exactly. And have you heard of the triple bottom line?

[00:25:14] James Gill: That rings a bell. You may to remind me. Asking that purely for our listeners, because I obviously...

[00:25:20] Track 1: Obviously you do. Yeah. I think it was John Elkington, who, I think it was him who created it. So what, what he talked about is, of course the only way that we can mess measure a success of a business is through profit. That's the only, that's the only way we can measure if it's a success, right? That means that a good business leader spends all their time getting profit. And that means that any moral questions, anything like that, any other kind of, if, if you get sidetracked by whether it's a good idea to pay people less, because of their wellbeing, then you're not really being a good business leader 'cause you're not making the best success of it.

[00:25:59] Right. That's, that's how we work currently. And what John Elkington, I'm pretty sure it's him. I might, I I'll stop saying his name 'cause it might not be him. What he posits is that at the bottom of a profit and loss sheet should be planet accounted for. People accounted for. And then profit underneath that.

[00:26:21] And so Tentshare can do that. We can account for the planet through, like you say, the very clunky measurement of carbon savings, use intensity and Carbon efficiency savings. We can account for the bottom line for people because we're allowing people to make money from an asset they already own. And then, and then we look at the profit and that creates, but that...

[00:26:43] James Gill: ...yeah. Yeah. Sorry. No, no,

[00:26:45] Track 1: ... but that creates, what that creates is when a business leader has got their eye on planet, people and profit, then the measurement of success, which we currently work by is, is gonna be watered down. So maybe Tentshare profit is gonna take longer to emerge, but I can what I'm doing for the planet and what I'm doing for the people already. For me, that's a success because I work on the triple bottom line. I don't work on the bottom line.

[00:27:19] James Gill: Absolutely. Yeah. And, and that, that, that definition of, I mean, I think it's come up on this podcast a few times where so many of us, we, we have this perception of success, which is almost come from Hollywood. Where success equals popping champagne on a mega yacht or, or things like this. And I think some of the most interesting findings I've had for myself have been my own definition of success changing over the years.

[00:27:46] Track 1: Yeah.

[00:27:47] James Gill: Actually much of that is a superficial, much that for me was very superficial and actually there's so much more that's like integral to you and, and what you were saying at the start around having such clear values as an individual and running a business that you know and understand and are proudly, is proudly, totally aligned with your values. That sounds a lot like if I, if I may, may, say and yeah, I think, I think that's just such a fascinating sort of whole topic there of like people's definition of success that relates to business for...

[00:28:23] Track 1: yeah. what, and what wealth means to you? You know, we talk in terms of, or I, in some of my communities and collaborations, we talk in terms of work health. So it's wealth with an H. So, you know,

[00:28:36] James Gill: Okay.

[00:28:37] Track 1: Whealth means health and satisfaction and joy. And, and, abundance doesn't necessarily have to be to be financial.

[00:28:48] I did wanna also briefly talk about CampLight. I work very closely.

[00:28:53] Yeah. Is that all right?

[00:28:54] James Gill: I know, I know that, yeah, that, I mean, this, this half hour's flown by Rebecca,

[00:28:58] Track 1: I'll run out of time!

[00:28:59] James Gill: You're looking at the clock and thinking, oh my goodness. How have we already done half an hour? But yeah, please do before we wrap up the do. Yeah, shout.

[00:29:05] Track 1: So I've worked with a couple of years with a business called CampLight. And what CampLight do, I said I was gonna talk about festivals. What CampLight do is rescue tents that have been left behind at festivals, clean them up, repair them, and then re-rent them back to festival goers. So it's a very simple model.

[00:29:22] And the use intensity obviously. So we, we, it's very labor intensive, but the use intensity is obviously driven because we are picking up tents that have already been used at least once. So we've, we've started on that journey already.

[00:29:35] James Gill: Yeah.

[00:29:36] Track 1: But CampLight worked at like 13 festivals this year, and we calculated the use intensity for all of those festivals. And we made a, a carbon efficiency saving of about 85 tons of carbon, which is to put that into context. To put that into context. That is about two hundred and fourteen, two hundred thirteen return flights to Madrid.

[00:30:03] James Gill: Oh my goodness.

[00:30:04] Track 1: And that has all it is incredible. But that has all come from people tents.

[00:30:11] So we are all tent mechanics. We're all trained to do this. We clean them. We are on our hands and knees cleaning them. We are on our hands and knees in all weathers, mending them, repairing them.

[00:30:22] James Gill: Must be a grubby job!

[00:30:23] Track 1: And pitching them. Pitching them for festival. So when a festival attendee arrives, and this is, this is the thing, right?

[00:30:30] This is another example of where, where people are, are misunderstanding where their joy lies. So we rent these out. So they're pre-pitch. You arrive, they're pre-pitch and they have a sleeping bag and a, a roll mat and a chair, and that costs per person about 45 pounds for the whole festival weekend.

[00:30:51] Right? So it's affordable. But what we have a lot of times is people saying, why would I spend 45 pounds on a, on a tent when I can buy one for 30 quid and keep it. Well if you buy a 30 quid tent, that's not gonna keep you dry. It's a single skin. We don't rent those. We don't set, we don't rescue those tents.

[00:31:10] We won't touch those tents 'cause they're absolutely useless. They're, they're not fit for purpose and they shouldn't be manufactured. But b you are, what you're forgetting is that you can you don't have to carry all your stuff if you, if you rent a tent with Camp Light, you are not carrying all your stuff. You arrive and someone friendly is there to greet you. Your tent has been pitched for you.

[00:31:31] James Gill: Yeah.

[00:31:31] Track 1: Plus you'll getting a roll mat and a a a sleeping bag. If, if the package includes it and and at the end of the festival you walk away and someone else puts it down and takes it away,

[00:31:44] But people are like, why would I do that for spending 45 quid?

[00:31:50] Because people are like, of course the first thing I'm gonna do, if I need something or I want something, I'm just gonna buy it.

[00:31:57] James Gill: Yeah.

[00:31:57] Track 1: And, and we've, we...

[00:31:58] James Gill: Would seem our brains have been trained on that for years and years.

[00:32:01] Track 1: The marketing budget on, on getting people to do that has been astronomical.

[00:32:07] James Gill: Yeah. And also I would just say haters are gonna hate, aren't they?

[00:32:11] Track 1: Yeah. Oh yeah. You're always them.

[00:32:13] James Gill: You can't

[00:32:14] Track 1: You can't please everyone.

[00:32:17] James Gill: On, on that note Rebecca, I, I would, I feel like we could easily fill another hour talking about this. I, it is absolutely been an honor. A pleasure speaking with you today. I wanna make sure, there's a couple of things I know you, you've kind of already given us so much advice, but I know you wanted to specifically call out about spending time in nature, right?

[00:32:37] Track 1: Yeah. Yeah. Get out into nature, it will boost your mood, it'll boost your physical wellbeing. It will just boost everything. Also, if you take one action, just use what you already have. Play the game. I play this game. And don't, don't get me wrong. I'm by no means perfect. We have been so brainwashed into buying you

[00:32:57] Occasionally I find myself doing it and, and I'm like, oh my God, I, I can't even believe I did that, what have I done? So, you know, and I've been training myself for years to stop doing that. It's hard, you know, we know it's hard, but the game is, the game that I play is, 'can I use?' Okay. I'm not gonna buy anything new. Don't buy anything. New game plus nothing goes to landfill game. Keep it all out of landfill.

[00:33:22] Buy nothing new. Once you start doing that, we are starting to be looking at a more regenerative, we need to be move beyond sustainability. Sustainability is about balancing. Regenerative is about giving back to the planet.

[00:33:36] James Gill: Yeah. And I am hearing that phrase regenerative more and more and more.

[00:33:41] Track 1: It's a hard one. Yeah, and the other thing is, please, if you want to support Tentshare, please do list your tent onto the Tentshare platform. I want to see tents across the nation for everybody to use and borrow and enjoy camping if you want. I know not everyone likes camping, but

[00:33:59] James Gill: No. I might have to go on there and see if I can find one.

[00:34:02] Track 1: Yeah. Well, let me know.

[00:34:03] James Gill: Thank you, Rebecca. And we'll link to as many of the things you've mentioned as possible in the show notes. But we, we will make sure, especially your website tentshare.co.uk will be linked. And you can find Rebecca and Tentshare on all the usual channels, and we'll link all of those in the show notes. So thank you, Rebecca. It's been an absolute joy to speak to you today. I look forward to speaking to you again soon. And thank you everybody for listening, and hopefully you've enjoyed the show.

[00:34:30] Track 1: Thanks James.

[00:34:31] James Gill: Cheers!

[00:34:32]