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Manage to Exit is a PMI Acquisitions Team podcast sharing practical playbooks for buying, building, and preparing your property management businesses for successful exits.
I'm a big believer in mindset,
and I spent a lot of time
working on my mindset
over the years
that if your mindset is wrong,
it won't happen for you.
If you're too focused
on the negative
to focus on the risk, to focus
on, oh, I can't do that,
I can't, I can't, I can't,
you'll find that you can't.
If you focus on
this is really what
I want to achieve in my life
or in my business
or where I'm going,
and you just focus on that.
All the other problems
that are going to happen,
there's no way for you to get to
anything you want to achieve
that's worth anything
without problems, without risk,
without all that stuff.
You just have to accept that
that exists.
If I want to achieve something
meaningful in my life.
And so I just need to go for
what's meaningful in my life
and let the rest
of it kind of slide away.
All right,
well welcome everyone.
This is the Manage
to Exit podcast again.
My name is Aaron McIlhenny.
We've got Hunter Goodall on here
from PMI corporate as well.
And then we've got a special
guest,
Peter
Jackal owner of PMI aspire.
And,
it was just a matter of time
before we got you on here.
Peter.
Did we did we threaten you
a little bit with this
at all?
Okay.
Yes, yes.
Yeah.
We're thinking about doing this
podcast, like months ago.
We were writing a list down of
not just franchisee, you know,
acquisition focus guests,
but also vendors.
But like Peter, your name,
of course,
was at the top of that list.
Like I think it was like
number ten.
And so we tried
to get one through nine.
They all said no. Not sure.
Now you're
at the top of the list. Yeah.
And, but, yeah, we just we
obviously like to get on here,
talk with franchisees
about the deals they've done,
not just,
you know, all the good stuff,
but also just
the reflective pieces that are,
you know, contributing factors
to other people
doing their deals and things
that they should look out for.
And, you've done a couple deals
with our team out
in, with our team here,
but the deals out in Colorado.
And so, yeah, we just we kind of
want to dive into that today.
How's that sound? Sounds
great to me.
Let's do it.
And so, Hunter, you were like,
really close to these deals too.
And I think, before your first
deal, you had, I'd say,
you know, a
decent sized portfolio already,
but like
before the acquisitions, like,
tell me about your business.
Like,
how did it grow organically
and where were you
kind of at what deal size
were you already before
you jumped into acquisitions?
Yeah. So grown.
My, original franchise, was a
pretty long, difficult slog,
to be honest with you.
It took a lot of effort.
Is doing a lot of, networking,
going to a lot of meet ups,
going
to a lot of different meetings,
using thumbtack,
using all of these,
other sources to try and build,
build our portfolio.
And, it took it took a while.
Took about two years
to get to about 165 doors.
And then I scaled back because
I'd let go of a bad owner,
who's actually back on now.
Go figure how that works.
And, kind of built
that business up to,
you know, it's around 120 when
I made my first acquisition.
And felt like, it it was at
a point where I could do that.
And in Colorado,
you have to be a broker
for two years before
you can be an employee broker.
So it's hard
to do an acquisition
when you're not an employee
broker.
So, once I completed that
two year, purgatory or whatever
it is in the state of Colorado,
we were able to, we're able
to make a deal happen.
And that first deal
was an on market deal.
And which is rare.
And you know how that went,
right?
Yeah.
Public listing like that
first deal definitely was.
And I think we looked at it
first and then it came back
some months later.
Right.
They maybe had gone through
with another
buyer that had fallen out
for whatever reason.
And so we stepped
in a little bit later.
Right.
I think that's the right story.
If I recall.
they were trying to sell it
to a bigger company at first.
And they found out quickly
that that bigger company,
number one, was going to just
slash the budget.
Probably
let go
of all their maintenance guys
and kind of start over
with everything.
And they were going to,
try to get it
a little bit cheaper as well.
So they made
it just really difficult.
And, all I did to handle
that was just sit back.
All right. Well,
if you need me, call me.
Because we kind of knew
that there were things
that were going to go wrong
with that deal.
And it slowly fell apart.
It came back around.
And they asked if I wanted to
if I wanted to go for it again.
I said, yeah, sure.
And then it kind of fell again.
Because there was another person
that was trying to buy it also,
and it kind of teetered until
they finally came back to us.
And I said, I'll close it if you
if you want to do this deal,
it will close.
we were able to close the deal.
It just took,
I don't know, nine months.
I think, to finally
make that deal go through.
Yeah, that's kind of that public
listing battle, right?
Like when you have ten, 20
other buyers looking at,
like, it's hard to stand out
right in that scenario.
And even though you,
I think had some discussions
with the seller,
some of these bigger buyers
that were coming in
and just kind of over promising
on their offers, right?
Like they would come in
with an aggressive multiple.
And then like you mentioned,
you know,
through due diligence
even try to cut back right away.
Right.
That five
turning into four three.
So kind of wasting time
and especially the seller like
it kind of just beats them up
a little bit too.
Right? Yeah.
And it was one of those things
where,
if you know
anything about acquisitions,
and I've worked at other
big companies
that were primarily acquisitions
oriented,
you want to work with somebody
you trust at the start,
rather than working
with, somebody you don't know
because the
somebody you don't know
is like those bigger companies.
They go. Here's here's
my offer on it.
And then once I get into due
diligence, is starting to
nickel and dime you down
until you're down to almost,
not even where near you wanted
to sell the business for.
And that's
what I think
his experience was, is
it was just somebody
that wanted to
to bring it down,
almost like sell into
private equity where you're
just trying to you're
trying to get the lowest price
possible.
At the end of the day
and end up in a situation
where they can really profit off
of this business in a way
that it's almost a natural.
And so when they start working
with somebody local
like me, it's,
it's more of a natural
fit for them
because I see, oh,
this person works like I did.
This person is at that stage.
I remember
when I was at that stage
and trying to build
my business as well,
and this is where they're at,
and I feel more comfortable
with them.
And that's
what happened with that owner.
He felt a lot more comfortable
with me than with anybody else.
that happens all the time.
Where the big buyers come in
with the big checks to win
the deal.
To win, to win the due
diligence phase.
Knowing like, hey, we're going
to wear this one down
and down and down,
and then we're going to get it
at a reasonable price tag.
But at least we beat out
all the other buyers
and we're we don't
have to compete with anybody.
But it's interesting
that you pointed out
the seller didn't
like the idea that this buyer
was going to come in and slash
the budget, slash the team
and just roll with
with their existing team.
Aaron and I, we talk about that
all the time, right?
Like sellers care about that
like the big buyers.
That's kind of their motto.
Hey, we're going to start off
paying you
five six acts on this business,
but there's a lot
of contingencies.
We're probably going to wear
that price tag down
and you're not actually going
to get that payment for years.
But we're also going to cut all
the team that you cared about.
And it's
like the big buyers typically
they don't
have that level of experience
in that specific space.
Like you're
in property management.
They're just big Wall Street
guys that are coming in
and they know how
to operate business,
but they don't know specifically
property management the way that
you do as an operator.
Yeah, that's one of the things
that he said to me.
The seller said to me
is that this guy came in
and he didn't understand
the business at all.
He was asking questions like,
how do you not know
the answer to that?
How do you do you not know
how to operate this business?
Or are you just going to
make everybody
that I built relationships with
over the last 38 years hate me?
Because you came in
about this business.
You don't know
what you're doing.
So he was a lot happier
with bringing somebody in that
he knew knew
what they were doing, understood
how the business operated
and was going to roll with it
and really make that company
continue to thrive
and get even bigger.
And that was my goal
from the beginning.
And that's
what we're doing today.
So we haven't lost
any of our HOA fees.
And that from that transaction
we kept them all,
we kept all of the team members
except one who,
you know, decided to
say a bad word to his boss
and got fired for it.
And that was about it.
But like, one thing I
do, I just want to check in on.
I'm pretty sure that you closed
on, if not a similar price.
It was pretty much
at the original,
offer price that you had given.
Right?
The one that they had said no
to, which was truly like a
like a fair market value.
Yeah.
I mean, did it end up closing
pretty close to the original
offer price? Yeah.
It was the same price.
It was what we offered.
We closed that.
And that's
that's the key to building trust
in these acquisitions.
Don't try to nickel
and dime them down.
And I've worked
with large companies
that had that same concept as.
Hey, I'm going to tell you
what I'm going to offer you.
That's what it's going to be.
I'm not going to nickel
and dime you down
unless there's something
major in the deal
that's going to force me
to do that.
And that's what's
going to build trust in that.
Seller's going to talk to others
about how you did it,
how you did them right,
and you didn't come in.
And, beat them up over
something that wasn't necessary.
So, that's the kind of trust
you want to build.
And I think that's
the kind of trust
that leads
to more acquisitions
in the future.
And that's typically
our practice, you know, to win
deals.
You do as much diligence,
at least
as much financial diligence
as you can up front,
because when you put together
that Loi,
the otherwise
non-binding, you can
you can make adjustments
to that.
It's a rough draft,
but you don't
want to have to do that.
We want that to be as close
to that final price as possible.
We don't want to have to go
and change.
It's like, hey,
we've done enough homework
that we're like, we believe
this business is worth this.
And now we're going to prove
that it is during due diligence.
We're going to prove
and justify that price.
But our goal is not to try
to discount that price.
Our goal is let's see.
Let's make this happen at
the price that we agreed upon.
And that's why I love having
you guys involved in this.
As you guys understand
these acquisitions so well,
you can do all that due
diligence,
and help us with that due
diligence process.
Because this is my first ever
acquisition in my entire life
that I was it was actually going
to be me making the purchase.
And I didn't know
what I was doing.
You know, it was,
I think Hutter
and I talked about this
beforehand is like me, like,
okay, it looks about right,
you know?
Sounds about right.
Let's go for it.
And without you guys there
to to really evaluate things
and tell me, yeah, we should
go forward with this one.
Or maybe this isn't,
such a good deal
when you talk to him
about his price point.
And that really helped me a ton.
And going forward and
I it's the same kind of support
with the second acquisition.
You guys were right
there with me,
walking me through all the steps
during that one as well.
And, I, I'm hoping you
guys will be right there with
That's the plan.
I mean.
But I, I just want
to get in real quick.
But just 100 and I
talked about this all the time.
Just having multiple
sets of eyes on every deal.
And so, like, how Hunter and I
were, on the acquisition team,
we really do
look at every deal together.
But there are multiple team
members,
at least on our side, two
that are also working on
these deals.
You're also bringing in,
you know, an attorney or a CPA
at whatever point to.
And so like we
we have worked with other buyers
that try to go into it
like solo,
just running by themselves
and like
it does not work out in the end.
Well, for them,
like you really do need a team
to go through the process.
Yeah.
And I'm a big believer
and use the expertise
you have around you
or the expertise you can hire,
you know, getting
getting the consultant involved,
which we got involved
in the first two acquisitions,
to really help, help
guide us on the SBA process,
having you guys there to really,
scour those financials
and look at all the numbers,
getting my attorney involved
to help do the APA,
getting all that stuff, set up
really needs expertise.
And there's no one person
that's an expert
in all of those things.
So use the expertise around you,
and leverage whatever
you can to make the deal work
the way it should work.
That really feels like
a plug for, who, not how.
I mean, I think you got the Dan
Sullivan.
I know Hunter and I
where it got turned on to the,
ten X is easier than two bucks
from you, Peter.
And then we went down the rabbit
hole, and, I think.
Hunter, I don't
know if I think you've read.
Yeah.
Yep, yep.
Read it, read it.
Yeah.
But, no, that's totally.
That's how we should be running
our businesses in general.
Get the right people on the bus
and and let them do
what they are trained
and an expert at doing
and watch your business grow.
And that's the same
in acquisitions.
Hit the right people on the bus.
Get them all
moving in the right direction.
And your business
is going to get a10x like Yeah,
we just found our first sponsor
right now.
We're going to get there
a little bit.
Get them on there.
Is it Ben Hardy?
Is that the other? The author?
So he said.
Yeah.
Ben Hardy and then Dan Sullivan
was, Yeah, exactly.
I'm going to some one day
seminar
where Dan Sullivan or Ben Hardy,
one of the two, is going to be
there
in Boulder
at the end of this month.
So I'm looking forward
to going to that, Yeah.
hopefully
meeting the guy that, got me to
do something crazy, acquire
Oh, yeah.
I want to see a photo.
Okay.
I need a, like,
a bear hug photo.
You know,
something that frame for you.
tell me what was going on in
your mind that
that this was a public listing.
The first deal that you bought
your business was at work,
right?
You had 120 doors.
Like, roughly roughly
what revenue range was that at?
What revenue was that?
I don't know, like 150,000,
something like that.
It was.
It's pretty small. And then.
And then you come to us
and you're like,
hey, here's
this public listing for,
you know, seven figures, 1
to $2 million range.
Like, what could we buy?
Like,
what was going on in your head
when you're like,
all right, I want to do this.
It's hard for me to explain that
because I'm
the kind of guy that's like,
let's just try it and find out.
The way that I always operate
is I'm going to try this,
and I sent this to Aaron
in my email.
At the very least,
I'm going to get educated.
So at the very least,
I'm going to get an education
that kind of comes from the rich
dad, poor dad, model,
which is, you work for an
education, not for a paycheck.
And it was the same thing here.
I wanted to I wanted to really
learn how the process worked.
At the very least, if it doesn't
work, I can't get the money.
Fine.
I at least I learned something.
And I'll learn
how much money
I need to have to make
this thing happen in the future.
So that's kind of how
I approached it.
Let's just learn how it goes
and see what happens.
And it ended up working out,
and I was pleasantly surprised.
walk us through the stressful
parts. Like what?
What what was difficult
about it?
I think the difficult part
was really the looking
and reviewing the financials
and going,
okay, so
if I get this loan, am I going
to be able to pay for this loan?
That was probably
the most stressful thing.
Like this is a big loan.
I mean, it amounts to like 20
grand a month, right?
And you're going, okay, like the
cash flow has to support this.
And I can't lose anybody.
I can't lose any clients.
What do I need to do
to keep the clients?
And those were the fears
that really made you go,
oh, do I really want to do this?
Is, If I'm taking on a big risk
here, you know,
I have to personally guarantee
everything.
So, you know, me
personally, I'm on the line.
I had to put my house up.
You know,
there's all these little things
that that freak you out.
But when you really get into
it, you realize.
You know what, I.
I just need to trust myself.
I need to trust who I am
and what my capabilities are
that I can do this,
that I can make sure that these
that these clients
stay on board,
that I'm going to build
the right relationships,
that I'm going to be able
to make this happen.
And really just stay focused
on that,
on that future and what
your vision is for the future.
And when you focus
on your vision
and not on the problems
or the concerns,
you'll see it thrive.
But if you focus
on the concerns,
so the whole thing.
That's interesting that,
I was reading a book
and it was talking about this
professor, an MBA professor
at UC Berkeley,
and he did this study over,
I don't know how long,
how many years, but he followed
all of his MBA students.
And from the study, he concluded
that the biggest indicator
of success in a career
is the ability to face
uncertainty head on
and be able to just adapt to it.
That whole attitude
that you had of like,
I don't know, I don't know.
We'll figure it out as we go,
you know, like
dealing with that head on
and just going for it
is is the biggest key indicator
of success in a career.
I'm a big believer in mindset,
and I spent a lot of time
working on my mindset
over the years
that if your mindset is wrong,
it won't happen for you.
If you're too focused on the
negative to focus on the risk,
to focus on, oh,
I can't do that,
I can't, I can't, I can't,
you'll find that you can't.
If you focus on
this is really what
I want to achieve in my life
or in my business
or where I'm going,
and you just focus on that.
All the other problems
that are going to happen,
there's no way for you to get to
anything you want to achieve
that's worth anything
without problems, without,
difficulties, without risk,
without all that stuff.
You just have to accept that
that exists.
If I want to achieve something
meaningful in my life.
And so I just need to go for
what's meaningful in my life
and let the rest of it
kind of slide away.
So taking on these acquisitions,
you can sit there and go
all day long.
Oh, what about this risk? Oh,
what if this happens.
Oh what if that happens. Yeah.
Well what if that happens
any day of the week.
I remember people
that had on that
doomsday scenarios with Covid
and they're like, oh, but
but what if all the banks fail?
And I'm like, well,
we're all in it together. It
out, right?
It's like,
it's that kind of mindset
that holds people back is the
what if mindset.
And really what it should be is
what's possible mindset,
what the future
is possible for me.
And what do I want to achieve.
Which is why I set
these ridiculous goals.
Guys,
I know everybody looks at me
like I'm crazy
every time I tell them.
I think my profit coach
just kind of looked at me like,
yeah, that's ridiculous. You're
not going to hit that number.
When I told them what my ten
year goal was, which is a $60
million company,
I like to be like, you're crazy.
You're just a franchise. You're
not going to get to 60 million.
But I don't listen to that.
I just am focused on that.
That's where I want to be.
That's what I'm going to do.
Two years ago before you did
that first acquisition was
60 million on your mind?
Yeah.
Exactly.
You're moving that target.
and I'll up it again
if I, if I make this, there's
another acquisition coming
up, so,
I'll just keep moving
the target for myself,
because that's how I operate.
I want I want to do something
meaningful.
I didn't want to just,
I had I've talked to some other,
folks that have said, oh,
I just want to make enough
just to survive.
I'm like, that's not a business.
Just go get a job
if that's what you want.
A business is
I want to build something
meaningful, a build a legacy.
I want something to either
pass on or sell at the end
and make my exit,
and actually,
live a comfortable retirement.
That's,
that's building a business.
You don't build a business
to make a living.
Go get a job.
If you just
want to make a living.
We just found the quote
that we're going to highlight
on this one. Man
that was awesome.
I'm gonna have to
rewind that a few times. But
that's it.
That's it.
I love the goal setting feature
because I feel like a lot of us
here, too.
Like,
I mean, it's inspiring from us,
even on the franchisor side,
when franchisees
do something that's a little bit
different too, right?
Like,
I think more of our franchisees
are now even just after
kind of the success stories.
And kind of just the highlights
that you've provided,
like your deals kind of launched
this other element to what we do
with our president circle.
And like these million dollar
plus deals like it's a it's
a greater incentive and reward
and just motivating factor
for other people
that can see that
people are doing this
in the franchise space.
And then also it's like it's
not just PM, like there are
other aligning industries
that are kind of
looking at this model too,
and just trying to get excited
about, hey,
I don't need to go do three tiny
deals before
I can do a large deal.
Like now
we have a lot more people
that are thinking, you know,
actually, I need the platform
business first.
I'm going to go after the
million dollar plus transaction
and then start rolling up
some of the small ones, too.
So you stepped
into a pretty large deal.
I'd say that's
a larger transaction
than most of our buyers
do for their first deal,
and it's definitely been kind of
setting a trend that way, too.
Like Hunter,
I think you can see that
a little bit closer to you.
We have a lot of Zs,
a lot of franchisees
going into million dollar
plus deals
now off their first deal.
Well,
and we use we use Peter as the
the poster child for this
too, because you were at.
We're working on it just like.
You said you were 120 doors,
and then you're like, you know,
I want a $10 million business.
I'm going to buy this,
this million dollar business
to start, right?
You do this.
You closed in December of 23,
right?
2023.
You closed on this business.
And then the next month,
we took you to to Hawaii for
that first present circle trip.
And at dinner, I was like, hey,
by the way,
Yeah.
dude, I just closed on this
three weeks ago or whatever.
And I'm like, yeah, we've
we've got another one
that's like seven figures.
What do you what do you think?
And you guys were just like,
let's go.
Like.
Yeah.
We have to get Kelly on board
first.
I mean, like that, you know, you
yourself.
Let's also highlight
how important it is to,
Make sure that, you know, that,
that everything's on the line.
No. was like,
oh, I don't know, Hunter.
And then the very next day
I was like, let's do it,
let's do it.
And I think that was
the smartest thing
I did was just to come around
and say, let's go forward,
because that has changed a lot
for my business.
I have grown
the residential side now and,
residential and HOA and it is,
and they're about
at the same unit door count.
But that gave me the clout
to get bigger deals
and help me move
more into multifamily
and get bigger multifamily
deals.
Those acquisitions
that that put you into that door
category where bigger players
are looking at you going, yeah,
I'd like to using for this,
and bigger investors
and people that just have,
bigger portfolios
are more comfortable with you
because they know you can manage
something of that size.
Whereas when you're a smaller
franchisee, it's harder
to build that
because they don't see you
as can this person
that has 120 doors manage 300.
I don't know,
that might be a bit
that might be a bit
much for them.
But in this case,
and that's why I believe the ten
x is better than two x
guys like, ten x.
You have the same number
of problems
making a big acquisition.
It's not like
the number of problems went down
or went or, you know, expanded
exponentially.
You still have
the same problems,
but you have a bigger team
to handle the problems.
And that's
what's happened, for me,
especially after
implementing iOS,
my team handles the problems.
And here I am on this podcast.
I can cut two hours out
of my day to talk to you guys.
Because my team's got it,
and I don't have to be involved
in every little detail.
Whereas, when I, when I was
where I was before at 120 doors,
I had to be involved
in every little detail.
And it's hard
to grow a business
when you're involved in,
you know, a tenants calling
you about a leaky faucet, a,
you know,
you got an owner calling you
because they don't think
the financials are right.
And you have to answer them.
And you have all these things
coming at you.
You're like, I did.
I have time to try
to get more doors
that have a second to do that.
Whereas, once you build
and you exit,
you suddenly have this team
and you have a team of people
that have been doing it
for years.
I mean, the people
that I picked up
and these acquisitions
did it for ten years, 20 years.
They know what they're doing.
And, and they're happy
doing the things that they do.
And what you often find is
they've been underpaid
for years.
So you got to figure out a way
to pay them more.
And that's what
I've done, to hold on to them
and really upscale them as well.
And once you upscale your
people, they upscale for you.
And they do even more for you.
The people that I have now
are doing so much for me,
I can't I can't even tell you
how happy I am with,
with their
with what they've done
and what they're doing for me
at this point.
I would have never had that had
it just been me at $120.
How many team members
do you have now?
I have 27 team members now.
I just recently hired,
BDM and, and another
HOA manager to help build my age
who is in another market.
So, that has been, it's been
critical, for me to grow.
My business is the people.
And when you have good people,
your,
your business
really starts to thrive.
And you can focus on the on
working on the business
rather than in the business.
Totally.
And we work with a lot of buyers
that are actively
targeting companies
almost purely for the staff.
It's like they want to find
something with the team.
And we got two buyers
out of Arizona
that every time they've entered
kind of a new arena or,
you know,
they want
to get into commercial,
they've done deal sourcing
based on the existing
teams in place.
So like the value of team
members
sometimes get overlooked
because those bigger companies
like we talked about before,
oftentimes are cutting
some of that immediately,
like we're paying a fair market
or sometimes even a little bit
higher to make sure the team
stays, just so critical.
But, but yeah,
that's interesting to hear
how how much
you've got 27 people.
That's awesome.
We look at that
as a big piece of value
because it's like people we get
we get our franchisees
looking at these,
you know, three,
$500,000 deals all the time.
And we're just like,
that's cool.
You're going to add some doors.
But what you want is the team
like that's a really
the infrastructure
is a really valuable piece
to this business
because just acquisition
process, it's just as hard,
just as much work to do.
The $500,000 dollars to do
the 1.5, $1.7 million deal.
But one of those has team.
It's a much easier lift
than the one that doesn't have.
So it's like it's scarier
because you're taking on
a personal guarantee
on a bigger loan, but
you've got a bigger business,
a better business
that has that team right.
Yeah. And it goes back to that.
Who? Not how. Right.
If you're
if you're looking at a deal
and you're looking at it
because you can just file
these contracts and you look at
it is just contracts.
You're looking at a house.
You're not looking at a who
you should be looking at okay.
Who are the team members?
Are they good?
And that's what I spent
most of my time
asking questions of the seller.
As with the team members are,
how long have they been with
them?
Are you do
you have a lot of turnover,
you turning a lot of people over
and changing out people
all the time?
And if they're doing that, it's
kind of a flag to say, okay,
maybe their team members aren't
the right team members for us.
And maybe that's not that deal's
not going to work out for you.
Your best deals are
when you acquire,
not only the contracts,
obviously,
you have to have that,
but the people that are there.
And if they're good, people
find a way to keep them on,
because get
people are going to make you
so much better as a company.
And I'm also looking
for cultural fit.
I'm not just looking for
expertise.
Is is the person
there is the culture
that company
going to be a great fit for us?
That are they going to help
grow our business?
I take it back.
I did lose one other employee.
The whole transaction.
But she retired.
But she also wasn't
a great cultural thing.
Whereas the maintenance guys
were fantastic cultural fans
for that business.
So, you'll see that, the,
the business really thrives
when you have the right people,
in place and,
and that that acquisition piece
and looking at the people
that's super important to me.
I want to
I want to rewind a little bit.
In Hawaii, you had just closed
on on a big business.
And then
and then we're like, hey,
just like, who?
You know, maybe.
And your wife Kelly was like,
what the heck, guys?
had a conversation that night
and you come back the next day
and you're just like,
all right, let's go.
What happened?
How how did that
conversation go?
Want to walk us through
that process of how you decided?
All right,
let's let's do another one
because you guys closed
two within six months,
which is wild.
So both of us had just finished
reading all those ten
X2X books.
We just finished it.
And I think the conversation
was pretty much, hey, like,
I just turned my business on it,
and it wasn't that big.
It wasn't that hard.
It wasn't
so bad that I was working
80 hours a week or something.
10 to 10 x my business,
I wasn't, I wasn't it didn't,
you know,
drive me down that much.
And here's another opportunity
for me that at this point,
double the size of my business,
I would have loved it
to be ten, etc.
but, we talked about that
some other time.
And, and I had this opportunity
to grow it again.
And we really said, well,
what's the difference?
What's the difference
between having a, you know,
million five debt
and having $3 million debt?
It's not like I'm
going to go into my bank account
and pay it off
if things go south anyway.
Right?
So it's
not like you're going to go,
oh yeah, I'll just take
and I'll just take $3 million
out of my trust fund,
which I don't have.
And cover this
and cover this risk.
Now, it was a matter of,
you know, the risk
isn't that much different.
And that's all. Again,
back to that.
Ten x at risk
isn't that much different.
You still have to find a way,
to get past that and
look to what you really want.
And I'm going to go back
a little bit further here,
because this really is
what's driven me is
when I was at workshop,
my goal, they
I can't remember how many years
they wanted
you to go out for your goal.
I don't know
if it's 3 or 5 or whatever.
My goal was to be
the biggest franchise in PMI.
And have the most doors of any
PMI franchise for residential.
And I wasn't even thinking
about HOA at the time.
So my goals
were already really high.
And actually I did achieve that,
by the way,
that last, award ceremony
I did
when the most residential doors,
and that was within three years
time.
So, when I looked at that deal,
I was like,
you know, at the end of the day,
this is my goal.
My goal is to
is to be the biggest in the
in the best that I can be.
And that was my goal
from the beginning.
And, that put me over
the top to meet that goal
was that transaction.
So, that's kind of
what kind of drove me
on her to go, you know what?
Let's just do this
because I have a goal
and I want to meet that goal,
and I want to achieve that goal,
and I did, and
I didn't even know
I was achieving that goal.
Guys.
Like, I didn't even
I had no idea I was going to be
the biggest residential,
operator at that time,
even with that acquisition.
So, I didn't know that
till they called me up on stage
for the third time.
So. So, no, it
was it was one of those things
where if I just looked at it,
if you just go back
to what you're actually
trying to achieve,
what do you really want?
And you stay in that mindset.
And that's really
what I'm trying to do.
You'll find that the taking
these risks are
less of a less
of a hindrance to you.
And you just go for it
and see what happens that,
I mean,
obviously cross my fingers
that doesn't mean
that things will never go south.
I make sure that they have.
Of course they could.
Anything can happen to do that.
But that's not my focus.
I'm not focused on that.
I'm focused on what's
what is it
that I'm trying to achieve,
which is also why
I keep up in the goal ladder.
Because,
if I achieve that goal,
it's like, well, what next? I'm
not going to just sell it now.
I'm going to go for the next one
and let's make it bigger.
Let's let's backtrack
for a second.
You said you doubled
your business.
We you next your business.
From November of 23 to July
of 24, you more than ten to.
way. Absolutely
absolutely more the But
I just think of, like,
the platform you've built
in your immediate market
and, like,
you know,
just looking at the future.
There's other markets, right?
I mean, this is something
you could probably replicate.
Have you thought about expanding
to a new,
new state, new city, new region?
So I have definitely thought
about it.
I have thought about what other,
areas of this of the country
could I be looking at,
I just need to figure out
I think what is is
got be, like, going.
Okay, so what is that next
thing is okay,
I need to understand the model,
and who the business manager is
because I can't be there
all the time.
I can't be there once a week.
I can't be there
that often if I do that.
So I have to understand
my model.
But yeah, it's
definitely crossed my mind.
And as we look at other
potentials
that he and I have discussed,
that is something
that I would need to do to make
those other opportunities flow.
And not even in
not even out of state,
but even in state
further places.
So, so yeah, that's a that's a
model to discuss and understand.
But at the end of the day,
if I have the opportunity,
I'm going to go for it
and then figure the model out
after I've gone for it.
As long as the financial
support,
the model that I'm looking at.
So, that's the that's the key.
But, but you know what?
At the end of the day, like,
it takes a healthy amount
of gratitude to do this as well.
If you're not grateful
for what you have
and the opportunities
that you have,
especially in this country,
there's very few countries
where you have an opportunity
like this,
to, to build a business
and you get a SBA guaranteed
loan and other countries
that are doing that.
So you have this opportunity
in front of you
that nobody else
in the world has.
Why aren't you
taking advantage of it?
Why are you going for it?
why aren't you grateful for
the opportunities that you have?
And, I try to do a gratitude
list every, every day.
It doesn't always work out
that way, but,
where I'm grateful for things
I don't have.
I'm already saying I'm grateful
for my $60 million business.
because just having that
opportunity,
you should be grateful for that.
And there's so much
to be grateful for.
And, having a team
like you guys, it's
that I have a ton of gratitude
for that to help me do this.
Whereas I
you know, certain things
I can't a lot of things
I can't almost
everything I can't do on my own,
to be honest with you.
So I'm grateful for the people
in my life.
Grateful that my wife gave me
this opportunity.
It's that shit's
that. Okay? You can do it.
That kind of thing.
When I first told her about
my first life, she lost it.
Guys.
They signed it.
not a it's just
process.
Is it,
is it dead stone here?
It's just a letter of intent.
I'm going to talk to you
about it.
We're
going to go over the numbers,
but I know more information.
But, but the the lie, we kind
of freaked out a little bit.
Yeah. It's it's funny too.
Just like a lot of changes
have happened
in the last couple of years,
I think kind of what I get
the most excited about
is just kind of that, like,
continued growth.
Like, we're all working on
building here, right?
Like, Hunter
and I look at deals every day
and just
we still feel like we're barely
scratching the surface
in our little industry.
And then you look at all
these ancillary opportunities
like, you know, cleaning
companies and maintenance and,
you know, snow removal
and all these other pieces
that touch our space.
So, I mean,
there's just tons of opportunity
just in our little tiny
part of the world, right? So.
Oh, yeah.
There's a ton of it.
And, I mean,
we have a high margin business.
It's high margin in comparison
to a lot of
the maintenance companies
and things that are out there
that are 10% margin businesses.
So the opportunity here
in property management
is just in property management
alone is big.
And adding
the ancillary services,
if you have those opportunities
and you can do that, can can
definitely give you a boost.
But our core business
is a valuable business.
So we did two deals within
six months.
So one at the end of 23,
one halfway through 24.
We've got a couple of them
lined up this year for
a three peat here. Let's get
with seven figure deals
go. With that in mind.
deal so I can call it an 8 Yes.
the I can do the Tom Brady thing
right?
Why not?
I mean, you might as well.
Right?
Yeah.
Put that on the list. Hunter.
We got we need rings.
We need actual.
Yeah.
To find some budget
for the rings.
Yeah, I wasn't
that wasn't in our 20.
Maybe our 26 budget can have
the have the rings.
So now that now that you've done
a few deals,
looking back, like,
what do you wish you had known
when you, you know,
we're doing that first deal
or even before you got started
on that first deal.
I wish I had known how expensive
the following few months
were going to be.
It is a heavy,
capital intensive process,
so if I had known it earlier,
I probably would have sought,
some working capital
in addition
to the actual acquisition price.
So I would highly recommend
that people look at that as a,
not as something
they should have in place
when they close the deal.
So that they have
working capital
to deal
with the unexpected expenses,
because there's stuff that's
just going to happen to you
that there's no way
you could have anticipated,
unless you've done
20 of these deals, right,
then you would know
all the other little things
that could hit you.
So that's the one piece
I wish I had known
a little bit better.
I'm pretty sure that you guys
probably knew, but,
and the whole mess of all this
thing, we didn't talk about it.
So,
it's just one of those things
where you are going to have
some expenses
that you weren't ready for,
that you weren't prepared for.
But, but you'll figure it out.
That's the other
great thing about it is,
even if you are surprised
by something,
you can figure it out.
I figured it out,
and I made it work.
Like,
the seller didn't tell me.
It was two months
behind the building
as maintenance,
in my first deal.
And so there's two bots
without any money coming in,
but I still have to write checks
to pay for the maintenance guys.
Right.
So things like that,
can can hit you.
And you had no idea.
You have to go and you have to
figure out how to make it work.
Did you see that on your second
deal, too,
or was that unique at all
with the first?
because there was
the maintenance company
as part of it.
And I didn't
I actually had asked,
and I
and I didn't get a great answer.
I should have probably pried
a little bit more on that.
But he hadn't
billed for two months.
So the HOA is, you know,
they have limited budgets.
I can't just pay two
maintenance bills
that are like in the 30,000,
$30,000 range
in one month, and it's
$60,000 and maintenance bills.
They can't do that.
So you had to wait
until those bills cycle through
before you could,
charge
for your first month
of management or
your first month of maintenance.
But that also gave me
the opportunity to say,
you know what? I'm
going to do mine differently.
I'm not going to charge.
I'm not going to wait
two months to tell people
they're going to get billed
within a few days
of the end of the month.
And that's how I operate now.
So the cash flow
is a lot faster.
And at the end,
you get better visibility
into where your finances
actually are as an HOA, because
you're getting bills right now
rather than having to wait
two months before.
Oh, yeah.
You know, that snow removal
that was done two months ago
and, and, and February.
Oh, yeah.
You're paying for that in May.
Like,
I mean, that sort of stuff.
So you kind of
want to, create a system
that runs a little bit
faster than that.
But I learned a lot of lessons
and all of that, which, again,
you know, I work for I work for
educate for an education.
And, I got a pretty good one
on that one.
And that really helps me
when I look at future deals.
I'm asking those questions.
If those questions are arise.
Did you have any churn, like
did you lose
very many contracts
with with either of these deals?
Now, I didn't lose
very many contracts at all.
I did lose
some on the residential side.
But,
I think that's a little bit
more expensive
or a little bit more expected
than on the HOA side.
I was able to go in and build.
One of my strengths was building
relationships.
One of the things I've been
blessed with
is the ability to do that.
So I was able to maintain
those relationships
with those board members
pretty easily.
And and the owner
helped out a lot.
He or the seller helped that
a lot.
He was,
he was there to introduce me.
We met with people in person.
We got to know
the board members.
They got to know me.
I didn't change anything.
That's that's
one of the keys to is
when you do an acquisition,
don't change anything too fast.
Go in there,
let things roll for a while
until you can really understand
where the problems are.
The issues are,
and then make changes.
And I take that from that.
If you guys ever
heard the book first 90 days?
That book is critical
in making transitions like this
and understanding that, hey,
if I go in there guns blazing,
I'm probably going to come out
with a few wounds,
a few big words.
But if I go in there
and ease into it and make sure
I'm building relationships
and I'm seeking to understand
first
before making big decisions,
things are going to go a lot
smoother for me in the long run.
First 90 days. Add
that to the list.
I was going to say we need
at the bottom of this, right?
We just need a list of all the
we got acquisitions
book club forming here.
That's okay.
We're going to put them
in our Amazon store.
And, we're going to
make sure
they're, we're getting something
on those books else
that we're pushing out.
All right.
You've learned some lessons.
What are you looking for in
your next your next acquisition.
I'm looking for a bigger deal
on bigger, bigger, better.
All right.
to, to really put my business
in a place where I can put
business manager and,
in charge of things,
and really step out of the day
to day stuff.
The business manager role,
role with the the day to day.
And then I can focus on
building my business even more.
I can focus on making the system
and making sure the systems
are right, making sure
the people are right,
really looking at it
from that bird's eye view,
rather
than, sitting at my desk.
I mean,
I still do some day to day stuff
now because I still have tenants
who have my cell phone number
that are texting me
like they did today.
I still have owners that text me
stuff, and I'm like, really?
You should talk to this person
or this person.
But, because I don't,
they
ask me questions
that I don't even know
the answers to anymore because
I'm not involved in that.
It's. What am I?
Other people
that are involved in it.
So, but
I just want to get to that point
where I'm really looking at,
okay, this business,
I can make this a bigger,
better, more efficient business
if I'm looking at it from
that bird's eye view
rather than looking at it from,
you know, from the
from the grassy knoll
and seeing all the trees
trying to navigate
through all the trees
and see my business
at the same time,
which is really hard to do.
You really have to be above
those clouds looking down at it.
Okay?
This is where the chess pieces
need to be placed
in order to be effective.
So do you already have that GM.
I do not know.
I am the GM right now.
I may have a person on my team
that is that GM.
It'll come down to
whether they're they are ready
and they're and they want it,
at that point in time.
So I could have that GM
within my team.
I know I have some people that
are more than capable of it.
It's rare them where
they're ready
and willing at that point
in time
to take on
that kind of responsibility,
because it's
a big responsibility.
Yeah.
A cool opportunity
now to write for team members
that maybe
wouldn't have access to someone
with that kind of mindset.
Right.
Sometimes these people are stuck
in a role.
Right. So.
I tell my team members
all the time,
as our business
grows, their opportunity grows.
And and I've proven that
with them.
I've given people
a lot of raises.
I gave a guy a raise
within a month of joining me,
because he proved to
be valuable enough to get that,
and I gave him
a significant raise,
and he was pretty
stoked about it.
So take care of your people,
and see your people as people,
not as cogs,
and you'll see that
your business will grow fast.
And your heart ache
will go away, too.
You won't have as much heartbreak, right? You'll be able
I've got
one last one last question.
Go for it.
I've asked you like
what did you learn
and what would you have done
different.
But for other people
who are kind of on the fence
thinking
about doing an acquisition
or it's
not even part of their vision,
like no, I'm just going to build
organically whatever it is.
Like, what advice do you have
for for other people?
Well,
I think my first piece of advice
is ten x is greater than two x.
You can do that
and grow organically
and keep growing organically
and go through the slog.
How are you going to find
that you're going
to put in more time doing that
than you would at handling
one acquisition,
making that acquisition work,
and then tinkering
until it really provides
you the efficiency
that you're looking for.
So that's number one.
So you just need to go for it.
And I'll add another sponsor
to it.
Just say just do it.
And we can see
if Nike wants to sponsor
like, you just got to
you just got to do it.
You need to look at it as,
you know what, this daily
trying to grow organically
might feel, somehow altruistic.
That.
Oh, I built my business
organically, and,
you know, like it. Me.
But I'm not the kind of person
that believes in that.
It's not about me.
And it's not about you
as the owner
trying to find
some altruistic way of building
this business
that you can be proud of.
It's really about
what is your goal?
What do you want to achieve,
and are you going to achieve
that goal or not?
And if you're building
organically, boy,
that's a
that's like a 30 year goal.
If you want to get to
the numbers, I'm looking at,
and if you want to spend
the next 30 years slogging away
for 30 years and working
in your business for 30 years,
be my guest.
That's not that's not,
that's not going to get you
where you want to be
as quickly
as you need to be there.
Or it's not going to get you to
your goal.
It's going to take you way too
long to get there
unless your goal is small.
And said this.
I stood up
at one of the summits.
I can't remember
which summit it was.
I think a lot was doing
something on stage
and,
was talking about somebody,
and he had this scenario where
this person just wanted to be
big enough, and they just wanted
to get to this many doors.
And I said, if you're not
growing, you're dying.
That's the nature of business,
period.
And, it all
it plays out all the time
and you'll see it play out
all the time.
Big business, small business,
medium sized business.
If you're not growing,
you're dying,
and you will eventually die.
So setting yourself
a low goal is just a recipe
for you to eventually die,
and die young.
Don't do that.
Set yourself a big goal
and go after it
and keep going after it.
And when you achieve
that goal, set a bigger one.
And keep going for that
until you're ready to exit or
until you're ready to,
do whatever it is you want to do
with your business
at that point.
Hand it off to your kids,
whatever it is.
But keep doing it until you
until you are ready to be
done with it.
And that's the point.
What? You're you're done.
You're never done.
Like,
if I had stopped my business
at 120 doors,
I'd probably be at 80 doors.
Now, I said I just want to be in
120 doors,
I'd probably be at 80.
Because I would lose doors
as soon as I had 120,
because I'd just relax
and be like, okay, I'm done.
You're not done.
You need to set your next goal
that.
Yeah, we definitely see.
I mean, when we're going
through valuation
on all these companies, like,
we see that, see
that kind of stagnation across
multiple years.
And,
I mean, it's impacting even
for your own valuation, right?
I mean, it's,
you see some stable businesses,
but it's I think
there's probably the size
where you see a lot of people
floating
under that kind of 200
door mark,
and they've been there
for a long time,
and they don't even know how to
get to the next the next wave.
Right.
And yeah,
they've been happy with that.
And it's just
maybe it gets them a decent exit
at the end of the day.
You know, a sub
million dollar exit on something
he worked 20 plus years on
is just amazing to me.
I did not overly exciting.
So, but yeah,
we see that quite a bit.
And that's okay.
It's not for everyone.
And, you know, for the people
that are motivated to buy
and grow, you know, that's
just a stepping stone really.
way I look at it,
if you want a sub
million dollar exit,
you might as well get a job
and put all your money in A
for one K.
Like that'll get you your sub
million dollars exit.
And then you didn't have to work
so hard to get there.
If you're building a business,
you work really hard
for a short period of time,
in order to build something
meaningful.
And you could exit
for a lot more money.
And if you have the right
mindset and the right goals.
And again,
it comes down to mindset,
like you're going to plateau.
That's just the way the nature
of working in a business,
you're going to plateau.
But you need to change
and adjust your mindset
so that you can break
through that plateau.
And if you're not able
to do that
and change
how you think about things
and change
how you feel about things
and even comes
to how you feel about it,
then you're
just not going to break through
because you're just going
to be down in the doldrums and,
you know, you, you attract
what you, what your attitude is.
So if your attitude is, oh, man,
I've plateaued and up,
I can't seem to get past it,
you're going to attract that.
And if you attract that,
you're not going to get past
the plateau.
You need to say,
you know what? No.
There's more opportunity.
I'm going for opportunity.
Here's what I'm going to do.
These are the places
I'm going to go.
These are the people
I'm going to meet. This.
This is what I'm going to do.
I'm going to change my mindset,
say, okay, I'm at 200
and my goal is 300,
okay,
I'm going to make my goal 500.
I'm gonna make my goal
a thousand.
I'm gonna make my goal higher
than I could even imagine.
During this plateau,
to motivate me to go more and
go bigger, better.
And that's
going to change your reality.
But if you,
if you, buy into the,
that's as many as I can do. Oh.
The competition.
But there's competitors out
there that are making it
impossible for me to do this.
Oh, the economy's the problem.
Nobody's buying.
And selling invested properties.
Trust me.
Nobody's buying and selling
impressive properties in Denver
because there's not a whole lot
to buy and sell in Denver
that's going to actually
make you money right now.
That doesn't mean
I can't grow my business.
In fact, that means I can grow
my business even more.
That I need to fight for that,
rather
than, doing the wellness stuff
that doesn't get you anywhere.
So just change your mindset,
focus on that and go for it.
So that's,
there was something else
I was going to say in there,
but I don't remember at this
For a little self-reflection.
Yeah.
But I think the mindset
is, though, like,
I think Denver kind of Denver,
a greater Denver area
like that
can be a difficult market.
And you've chosen
to kind of just adopt this
mindset
and it's proved itself for you.
And so I think
there's other people
in even in other markets
that might feel like
opportunity is not there.
It it is there.
It might not be a public listing
that got sent to your email,
but there is plenty
of opportunity out there.
If you're just talking to
talking to all the people right.
is tough on
both on on two areas.
And the regulatory environment
is difficult.
It's, becoming more and more
tenant friendly, which, is good
and at the same time
bad in the sense that it,
it makes
running a business like this
where your
financial responsibility
has had to the owner
a little bit harder, to manage
and work through things.
And some of the legislation
just doesn't make any,
any sense,
to be honest with you.
But, that's
part of the challenge.
And then the other part of
the challenge is just it's a
it's a market
where people have been buying
and building
this market for decades
now, and it's finally hit that,
that kind of that peak
where it's like, okay,
where's the where's the,
where's the return
on this investment
going to come from?
And I think you see that
multifamily
as well as in single family
in this space.
So there's not
a whole lot of people going,
let's buy an investment
property in Denver
where I'm
going to make a 2% return on it.
That a lot of people
are thinking that. Right.
It's only generational wealth.
People that are thinking that
because
they want to save investment.
So in class apartment
communities at that point, but,
so it's not a market like that,
but that doesn't mean
there's not opportunity here.
You just have to find
the opportunity where it exists.
And go for that.
And just find your nooks
and crannies.
And the beautiful thing
right now is.
Yeah, we're in a little bit of,
a lull in real estate
in general,
which is actually a good thing
because that means now
people might be able to invest,
as things, have slowed down
and prices
are going to start coming down.
And now there's the opportunity.
So, you know,
you just got to stick it out
and and make it happen.
And figure out the regulatory
environment, figure out how
you're going to adjust to it.
You know, have good lawyers.
You know, hired good lawyers
to help you navigate the,
the challenges that exist.
And that's what we have.
And we use them
and we lean on them
a lot to help us, work through,
the details of the legislation
that's out there and,
and make our businesses work.
If, if you looked at it,
you said
and you looked at Colorado
today from the outside,
you never know.
Property management.
You might say, no way.
I wouldn't do that
to save my life.
It's the regulatory
environment is really difficult.
The investments aren't there?
No way. But,
if you look at it differently
and you go, you know what?
It's a good business
model. Period.
And we can figure out
where we can fit
into that
regulatory environment.
We can figure out where we fit
into that market.
There's a lot of opportunity
here.
It's all about perspective.
And again,
going back to mindset,
I hate to keep going there,
but if your mindset is
is, oh no, this can't work,
then, okay.
It can't work.
You just you just set the stage
for yourself.
It can't work.
But if your mindset is,
I can make this work,
then you have something to work
with there.
And,
and if you go further and say,
no, I can make this thrive,
then you're
really onto something.
I think that's
that's the whole big idea
of this whole conversation
that we've had is mindset,
because like, you started off
at the beginning like,
no, no, no, no,
we got to be grateful.
Like, we live in America
where they give SBA guaranteed
like insured loans
to buy businesses
like your goal of 60 million
totally possible.
Every private equity
group out there,
all the micro funds out there,
that's their whole thing is
they're buying businesses,
rolling them up
and selling them for like 50,
$100 million or whatever.
It's like,
it totally is possible.
But it comes down to that
mindset of
what am I going for organically?
If your goal is to do
60 million organically,
I don't know how you get there,
but through acquisition roll
ups, it's all about a mindset of
like thinking, yes,
I can do this, I can do this.
We'll figure it out as we go.
But this
is possible, right? And so I.
tied to a tactic.
Your mindset can't be
tied to one of the trees in the
in the strategy forest, right?
It can't be tied to oh,
I'm going to grow.
I'm going to do that
organically.
that's not a mindset goal
that you can't do that
if you do that, then you're
you just hindered yourself
on your strategic,
strategic vision.
Your vision has to be
bigger than that.
You can't look at all
the different trees and,
and decide that you're
going to have, you know,
these are the three trees
I'm going to I'm
going to run through like,
that's silly.
You got to look at it
is though, I want to
I want to be
this size of business.
This is what I want to achieve.
And then you go, okay,
so what tactics do
I need to achieve that?
I'm a culture first, strategy
second kind of guy.
Have the right culture,
which is partly mindset,
and then put the right
strategy in place
and then worry
about the tactics.
If you're worried
about the taxes
before
you've even done
the other two things and, okay,
you'll
just be a 200 or operator.
But that's that's so powerful
to think of.
What's this big huge
what what does Jim Collins
call,
the Harry Harry That we have,
audacious goal.
The goal that you're like,
I don't even know
if this is possible,
but let's go for it.
Let's figure out how to get
that.
Let's 60 million.
I have no idea how to get there.
Let's figure it out. Right.
That kind of mindset is
so powerful of like, all right,
we just set the target way
higher.
We don't even know
if it's possible.
Let's figure out
let's work backwards
and see how we get there.
And that's all of a sudden
you're making leaps and bounds
and all of a sudden you're like,
oh, it is possible.
Like we're we're not far away
from striking distance,
you know what I mean?
So it's like
setting that big goal
and then figure it out
how to get there.
And, you know, building
that team
in that culture that will help
you along the way.
You don't do it alone, you know.
And so it's like but setting it
and then figuring out
how to make it possible,
it's just it's huge.
So that mindset
is really powerful.
hate to
plug another book, but now I
another,
listening to another book,
where they talked about that
very concept is
why are you worried about
whether it's possible or not?
Why even worry about it?
Just say,
this is what I want to happen.
You think Elon Musk is like,
I don't know
if Mars is even possible?
No. He just says,
I want to go to Mars.
I want to find people.
I want to take people to
So we sent a car first.
I'm going to go to Mars.
And he's
and he's trying to figure out
how to make it possible.
That's
how your mindset needs to be, is
this is what I want to achieve.
Who cares if anybody else thinks
it's possible or not?
That's a waste of your time.
So this is what
I want to achieve.
How are we going
to make it possible?
And there are examples
upon examples, upon examples
throughout history of people
that have just
said, I'm going to do X,
people said, you're crazy.
And guess what? They achieve X.
It happens all the time
and the only way it happens is
if you have the mindset
and the belief
in making it happen
that nobody else has.
And you're just going to do it,
and you see it all the time.
Nobody thought
that the telephone
would ever be possible.
Nobody would have thought
the light bulb was possible.
Nobody would have ever thought
that going to the moon
was possible or or taking,
a group of, famous people
into outer space for an
11 second journey or whatever
Yeah.
Like, who
would have ever thought that?
Nobody, except one person said,
I'm going to make that happen.
And they did it.
I mean, think about the car.
Nobody would have thought
this engine that May has little
mini explosions inside of
it would move a car forward.
They think the car would just
explode, right.
and they did it.
They figured it out
and they made it happen
because somebody actually dared
to go.
Yeah, that's my goal and that's
what I'm going to achieve.
Those are just crazy examples.
Mine isn't anywhere near
that example.
Mine is. I just want a $60
billion business.
just those kinds of things.
If you listen to your family
and friends,
they're going to say,
you're nuts.
So stop listening to them.
focus on,
what your direct spouse
and your immediate family.
If you start going to the
external family, they're going,
look at you like,
why are you doing You're crazy.
Why even do that?
And you give that.
And if you tell them the call,
they're going to even be
even more negative about you.
Like,
probably call you an idiot.
So, like, the thing here is
it's you that it's you.
And what you want to achieve
that matters.
And, and utilizing
the resources around you
and having the right mindset
and, and being grateful for the
opportunity
to try to achieve because
you don't have that opportunity
anywhere else,
whether
whether you're religious or not
or you believe in the universe
or God or whatever you believe
in, understanding
that your gratitude to
that is what's going to
this is what's going to drive
you forward, your gratitude,
for what's given to you and
the opportunities that you have.
That's
what's going to keep you going.
If because it's not you
that's doing all this,
I can guarantee you that,
if you achieve some crazy goal.
It wasn't you.
My achievements weren't me.
There was a lot of people
involved.
There was, a deity involved.
There was all kinds
of things involved,
that helped me get where I am.
And I can't take credit for it.
But I can't say that
I had the right mindset,
and I believed in those things,
and I believed in
that God would get me there.
And that's what happened.
that's really what drives it.
Not not,
not personal achievement.
I don't take credit
for any of it.
Man, you are about to inspire
a really quick internal session
for me later to the, you know.
This is so good.
I mean, I just,
I like hearing the story,
and, like,
I've been kind of closer to it
than some other people
listening to this, but
I just I think just the element
of setting higher goals.
Hunter is always great
at kind of pushing
that envelope,
at least here on our team.
And so it's it's cool
to kind of see that it's
yeah, it sounds like he,
like, brainwashed
you a little bit too.
Okay. That's good.
No. But like.
Yeah.
Phase two complete for sure.
No, but this is super helpful.
Like,
I just appreciate you coming on
and sharing it,
and I think
others are going to get a lot
of, you know, good
really insight from you.
And just the mindset element to
this is, is awesome too.
But this is just like
a small amount of
kind of what we do
and what we help with too.
And it's like we like being a
big part of these deals in these
even in these smaller markets,
you're not in a small market.
But like we get exposure
to deals all over the place.
It's really cool.
And we could do two deals
in a similar market
and do more of a market
deep dive and,
you know, work with franchisees
to set bigger goals.
It's fun for us.
I know I'm
not gonna speak for you, Hunter,
but I really like
diving into these deals.
And, you know,
it's it's been a wild ride.
So I appreciate your time
for sure.
I've loved working with you
guys.
I can't I can't
thank you guys enough
for everything
you've done to help me achieve,
these crazy ideas that I have
in my head, and,
and really get where I wanted
to. Where I wanted to be.
I'm not there yet, obviously,
and I never will be.
That's kind of the beauty of it
is you never really achieve
achieve your goals
because you set a new one.
But,
I couldn't be where I am today
without you guys
and all the assistance
that you guys have provided
or assistance
that PMI has provided.
I mean, just getting to know
everybody there
and how how passionate you guys
are to help franchisees.
They may not always see it,
because they're they're stuck
in the weeds again.
They're too worried about the,
you know, that we,
they need to pull rather than
the forest
that's been built for them,
to, to really get through
and make something real
with their lives.
Without without you guys.
That's not
that's not even possible.
So, I have an immense amount
of gratitude for PMI.
The entire team
Awesome. I appreciate that.