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The Moonshots Podcast goes behind the scenes of the world's greatest superstars, thinkers and entrepreneurs to discover the secrets to their success. We deconstruct their success from mindset to daily habits so that we can apply it to our lives. Join us as we 'learn out loud' from Elon Musk, Brene Brown to emerging talents like David Goggins.
00:00:05:01 - 00:00:31:01
Unknown
Hello and welcome to The Moonshots podcast. It's episode 260. I'm your co-host, Mai Parsons, and as always, I'm joined by the man himself, Mr. Mark Pearson. Freeland. Good morning. Mark. Hey, good morning Mike. Good morning, subscribers, listeners, viewers and everybody tuning in for a little bit more action of the moonshot podcast. And Mike. Boy oh boy, I'm excited to get into today's episode.
00:00:31:05 - 00:01:00:15
Unknown
How are you feeling about this particular subject matter as well as this particular author we're diving into today? Mark, I can only tell you that I am feeling resourceful, virtuous, maybe a little stoic. Oh, perfect. Well, you know what's lucky, Mike? I'm also feeling the exact same way. And because of that, we are going to dive into what are the stoic individuals who's really dominating our contemporary life nowadays?
00:01:00:15 - 00:01:41:09
Unknown
And that's Mr. Ron Holiday, prolific on YouTube and even more prolific in the bestseller lists today. Mike. We're diving into his most recent book, Right Thing Right Now, which for those who have been following our deep dives, I suppose you could say into Ron Holladay on the Moonshots podcast. This one's all about the concept of justice. Now, I'm not going to give away too much at this early stage, Mike, but I think the excitement that I found with leaning back into Ron Holiday as well as this book is the concepts of self, discipline, integrity, and basically just living a really virtuous, positive and impactful life.
00:01:41:11 - 00:02:13:01
Unknown
Yes, these things are important because I think, like we're so distracted by things outside, right? We're distracted by what we see in ridiculous presidential debates, what we see in, some of our leaders, and I think it's really important to position the word justice in this context, as Ryan Holladay writes about it. And that is a move towards how you, me, our members and our listeners, how we can do the right thing right now.
00:02:13:03 - 00:02:49:04
Unknown
And I think this is a really powerful book for us to share with our members, because at the heart of it, I think, is the greatest story of being self empowered in a world which is a bit bananas. You can act with integrity, you can do the right thing. And so if you're feeling a bit frustrated with the world around you, and particularly with things that you don't control, what the great news is this book and this episode will give us all the evidence, all the clues, tips, habits, mindsets to take on how we can do things so we can do the right thing right now.
00:02:49:06 - 00:03:15:09
Unknown
Mark, I'm really pumped up. So I'm going to do the right thing right now. Where do we start? Well, I'm going to take a little bit of a leaf out of your book, an introduction there, Mike, by taking control myself. We're going to kick off straight into this idea of justice. We're going to hear from Ron Holiday, introduce us to the word, but also help us understand and appreciate how opportunities can help us go out and do the right thing.
00:03:15:11 - 00:03:37:16
Unknown
Yeah, it's an ancient philosophy that's built around this idea that we don't control what happens. We control how we respond to what happens. So the Stoics say that big or small, good or bad, we always have this opportunity to practice one of the virtues courage, self-discipline, justice and wisdom. Okay. Well, just I'm thinking about the climate right now, and I feel like everywhere you look, people are not practicing that what you're describing.
00:03:37:17 - 00:04:00:16
Unknown
Yeah. So how do you get that back in people's psyche? Where where has that gone? Yeah, the problem is, when we hear this word justice, we think about what's going wrong in the world. We think really big picture. Instead of thinking about what we control, that's what stoicism is about. What's up to you and focusing there. And so I think if we if we stop thinking of justice as something like we get from a judge or a jury from the legal system, but it's something we do.
00:04:00:16 - 00:04:23:15
Unknown
We see justice as a as a verb, not a noun. That's how we want to be the change we want to see in the world, because that's something we actually affect. One thing I love about stoicism is this idea that, like when I was diagnosed with anxiety disorder and things like that, once I years ago when I realized, and I think the average human forgets that we control how we frame something when life throws us a curveball, we don't have to just accept it for what it is.
00:04:23:18 - 00:04:42:08
Unknown
We can make a choice in the moment how we how we sort of frame it. And that's part of what you talk about in a lot of your books. Well, there's something incredible about the emperor of Rome, Marcus Aurelius, 2000 years ago, writing in this little journal that survives to us as meditations, talking about his anxiety and what he's worried about, and then also telling himself, hey, look, you got to be a good person.
00:04:42:08 - 00:05:00:21
Unknown
You got to work for other people. You got to be honest. You got to be decent. So, so this is a really timeless thing. We're all kind of we know what we should be, and then the struggle is to get there in our day to day behavior. We're talking about good values. Good character. Is that something like I'm thinking about you.
00:05:00:21 - 00:05:20:03
Unknown
Were you raised with these kinds of values, or is this something that you learned through all the research and all the readings? It's both. You know, you hear these things from your parents. You hear these things in church. You hear these things from the great stories of history. And you see it there in the pages of philosophy. And then you got to figure out which of these work for me.
00:05:20:03 - 00:05:48:06
Unknown
Yeah. And then most importantly, how do I apply this in my life? This. So timelessness, right? Yeah. What is really important to remind ourselves is that the work on which, the foundations in which Ryan Holiday does his work is the great Stoics, and we're talking about ancient philosophers of several thousand years ago. Prime now, you know, Seneca and Marcus Aurelius, etc., etc..
00:05:48:12 - 00:06:16:02
Unknown
Now, here's what's really cool. What he does is he kind of drags them a few thousand years forward into today, and he forces us to think about how we want to live. And he struck on some key, ideas. But I think the first point that we need to make is if these ideas can stand up to 2000 years of human review, not just Ryan Holiday's, there's Got to Be Something here.
00:06:16:02 - 00:06:59:22
Unknown
And the beauty is it comes without any flavor of religion, right? So by jumping into stoicism, you know, like committing to heading towards the Vatican or you're not, practicing the Ramadan. No, you're practicing time tested values, timeless values that are about being a good person. So my logic here, Mark, is if they've survived this long and they are still so relevant, literally, this book that we are studying together with our members and our listeners and viewers, you know, this book is, number one on the New York Times best selling list today isn't right.
00:06:59:22 - 00:07:33:00
Unknown
Isn't that amazing? Yeah. It's again, like you say, Mike, it's totally timeless. And I think the reason why it is captured, in fact, I've got my copy of Marcus Aurelius is, meditations right here. I found it. I dug around, and it's one I've owned for for maybe 20 years, perhaps. But getting into it again more recently, particularly with the lens of lean into today's show, as well as our recent master series on Living Virtuously, reminded me that it is something that captures your attention every day if you allow it to.
00:07:33:05 - 00:07:56:21
Unknown
Yeah, and you're right. Isn't it amazing that 2000 years later, these concepts are still at the top of the bestselling list? Not only now in ancient Rome, but globally? And I think that's because of that key insight that Ryan just caught out. Be the change you want in the world. Oh what an amazing empowerment piece. You know, to bear in mind as you go out and live your day.
00:07:56:23 - 00:08:17:18
Unknown
It's very very easy. As you know, we've all experienced to go out and live your life and allow moments, or perhaps unjust moments to kind of influence how you feel, right, how you behave, how you talk about things with other people. It's very, very easy for that to happen, isn't it? But what a great call out again from around the holiday that it's up to you.
00:08:17:18 - 00:08:42:03
Unknown
It's up to me how we want to be. how how we want to be behaving each and every day. It's up to us now. I just think of it simply is. We've got sort of a finite amount of energy, and each of us. Right. Do you want to give that up to feeling irate, frustrated, or disappointed about things you don't control?
00:08:42:08 - 00:09:15:06
Unknown
Or would you like to route that towards things you do control? Great example for me is I definitely I like I have this really strong conviction is completely logical that I shouldn't make a mess in the city, the environment in which I'm living, right? so to me it makes total sense to take care that we're just caretakers of the planet, right?
00:09:15:08 - 00:09:45:16
Unknown
I therefore could be. I write about coal mines. I could be, you know, the burning of fossil fuels. I could, you know, go to protests and whatever. But my choice is like, you know what? I'll invest thousands and thousands of dollars and put 35 solar panels on my roof. Right? Yeah, that's what I'm going to do, right?
00:09:45:18 - 00:10:06:04
Unknown
I'm the guy that, separates all of his food scraps to go in a very specific instance. So it's a bit stinky, but, you know, hey, I'm prepared to do it. If you looked at me, you'd never know that I had this conviction. I did my darndest to do the economics of making an electronic vehicle work. It doesn't work for us.
00:10:06:09 - 00:10:43:22
Unknown
So as a family with three people that drive, we only have one vehicle. And nothing I love nothing more than going with the wife into the city on, heaven forbid, public transport. so. So I guess these are choices that become very easy for me to make. So I can be the change that I want. Like, if every, Australian family went for one car instead of two, if every family caught the train once a week or the bus once a week, and these are all decisions that we make.
00:10:43:23 - 00:11:06:07
Unknown
So this to me is the turn. Do you focus on the things you can do? And the beauty is you not wasting your energy, worrying or getting? I write about things you don't control, but if you are the change you want to see in the world, I believe this is in some small way not any good karma, but I think it's contagious, right?
00:11:06:13 - 00:11:29:23
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. You know the sentiments of taking care of the climate, investing your money sensibly in in causes and areas that you believe do positively impact whatever that cause might be. It's a it's a classic cause and effect situation, isn't it? And that reminds me that we are not only in control of what we do, but also how we view others when they do or do not do it.
00:11:30:00 - 00:11:54:11
Unknown
So, for example, a smaller, situation in a day to day life with regards to behaving in a positive way might be to hold open the door for other people. Something I, I learned, you know, as a child and something that I still maintain, trying to do right here, right now at this age. But there will be opportunities for me to be irate with other people when they don't do it back to me.
00:11:54:13 - 00:12:09:13
Unknown
Right? For example, if I'm holding up in the door and somebody walks through but doesn't say thank you, or alternatively, when I'm trying to get through the door and maybe I've got my hands full and somebody doesn't hold open the door for me, it'll be very easy to, you know, point the finger and say, hey, I do this all the time.
00:12:09:15 - 00:12:31:15
Unknown
I won't bother doing it anymore because nobody does it for me. That's the wrong attitude isn't right. Instead, it's up to me. I can choose to hold open the door. I can choose to not let it be a problem when somebody else doesn't do it for me. And similarly to your example, there might be it's something that you can control when it's a passionate cause that you get to see.
00:12:31:17 - 00:12:52:00
Unknown
It can be contagious. It can be. For example, you're talking about climate and investing and making sensible purchases, but also using public transport. The good news is, I'm sure there's going to be a lot of listeners today where that penny sort of drops and they think, oh yeah, you know what? That does make sense. I can probably do a little bit of research as well.
00:12:52:02 - 00:13:17:15
Unknown
It's all about having the communication and the behavior, in place to kind of inspire others, isn't it? I think it is contagious. Positivity and change is contagious. If you are willing to be open to the idea that your life can change as well, which is really the catch with all of this, that's very much the reason that we did the Living Virtuous Master series and why we study these books.
00:13:17:15 - 00:13:50:00
Unknown
Because, you know, when you think about it, any practicing religion will often congregate once a week to look at their, their holy word. So if you think about it, like as humans, where we're rather imperfect things and we need to be reminded of how to how to actually live with virtue and do the right thing. And I think this is something that so easily folds out of our habit system, just like we learned with happiness.
00:13:50:07 - 00:14:08:25
Unknown
You can't just have the intention of wanting to be happy. Need to work on it. You can't just one six pack and you got to work on it. And it's the same thing I believe is to feel good at the end of the day, to know that whatever the outcome was, you did the right thing. You can't leave it to chance.
00:14:09:05 - 00:14:30:22
Unknown
You have to be prepared because you know that, you know, there's that whole saying like failure to prepare is preparing to fail, right? And I said, that is very strong in this theme here. So I think what we're opening up with this episode and this first idea from the book is a chance to go, okay, let's put in the necessary training during the week.
00:14:30:22 - 00:14:57:10
Unknown
So when we play on the weekend in the game of life that we're at our best. And I think people who lead by example, they, you know, number one, they get a Ryan holiday book and number two, they become a member of the oh, God. Oh that's right, that's right. I think those individuals that we know, Mike, who are joining us on the moonshots family are certainly I think living that advice.
00:14:57:10 - 00:15:22:23
Unknown
They are looking to try and find the opportunities to guide and maybe practice their best selves and practice a virtuous life. So without further ado, as always, let me bring out the trumpet, the trumpet that celebrates those individuals all and welcome in Bob Niles. I trip Dietmar, Marjan, Connor, Liza and Sid, Mr.. Bonjour, Paul Berg, Kalman, Joe, Christian Semmler and Barbara, Deborah.
00:15:22:23 - 00:15:52:21
Unknown
Lashay, Steve. Craig, Ravi. Evert, Raul and Nicole Ingram, Dirk. Van cutter, Marco. Jet, Roger, Stephan. Rau, Netherland, James, Diana, Christophe, Denice, Laura, Smitty, Cori, Daniela and Mike. Annual members. High fives to you guys. In fact, many of you are well beyond that annual membership already. As usual, hot on the heels are more members joining us each week, including Antonio, Zachary, Austin and Fred, Ola, Andy, Diana, Margie, Ron, Casper and Fabian.
00:15:52:21 - 00:16:26:24
Unknown
Thank you so much, guys, for not only joining us week in, week out, joining us as we're learning and improving ourselves and staying curious with a growth mindset. You could say, but also for supporting the Moonshots podcast. Yeah. And I think, Mark, we had our first member from, China and they entered the Chinese characters. So if this is you, if you can just tell us how your Western name, sounds because I think Mark and Mark is quite the linguist.
00:16:27:02 - 00:16:47:20
Unknown
He might be able to say your name. I certainly couldn't, but we really do welcome you and encourage you to send us your your Western. name so we can put you on the honor list for our members. And to the rest of the members, we are very grateful for your support, because this helps us pull together this show to study the works of people like Ryan Holiday.
00:16:48:00 - 00:17:09:14
Unknown
And that all helps us, live the very best life that we can live. And we are only just getting started on that mission in this show because we've kind of figured out, you know, with that first clip that, you know, this is a choice to follow this path to not only a choice, but it's an active choice.
00:17:09:14 - 00:17:26:25
Unknown
You have to keep working on it. And now we've got some thinking from Ryan Holiday, which is really going to set us on the path of the work that we need to do to make this a reality, how we can do the right thing right now. So, Mark, why don't you let loose the second clip of this special Ryan holiday show?
00:17:27:01 - 00:17:45:06
Unknown
This is a clip for those who are sitting at home wondering, or they're commuting around wondering, okay, well, this is quite tough for me to begin. Where do I get started with the first bit of good news for all of us is, as Ryan Holiday calls out, no one is born a saint. It's something you can own. Nobody's born a saint.
00:17:45:06 - 00:18:03:00
Unknown
Even the people that we admire so much that we look up to, they weren't born that way. They became that way. And they're flawed and contain within them all the flaws that we contain within us. There's this story about Gandhi. He's still some money from his brother. When he was a kid, and he's overwhelmed with guilt and shame.
00:18:03:00 - 00:18:24:04
Unknown
And he finally confesses to his father about it. His father was then sort of on his deathbed, and he writes this horrible letter. He's weeping himself and piling on on himself about it. And his father sort of grabs the letter. He sits up in bed and he reads it and he finishes. You just tears it apart. And this moment of forgiveness, of grace, it shapes Gandhi.
00:18:24:04 - 00:18:39:17
Unknown
For the rest of his life, he would still be struggling with guilt and shame over other things that he'd done. But this moment of his father forgiving them, it shapes him. And I think he never forgets the humanness of both his father and himself in that moment. You know, he would say, I'm not a saint trying to be a politician.
00:18:39:17 - 00:18:59:12
Unknown
He said, I'm a politician. Try to be a saint. The point is, it's about the striving to be better than we are. That makes us great. When you see someone who's cool under pressure, when you see someone who's generous, when you see someone who forgives, when you see someone who doesn't have a big ego, don't tell yourself, oh, they're just naturally better than me.
00:18:59:14 - 00:19:23:12
Unknown
They were born that way. That's letting yourself off the hook. And it's also unfair to them because it's ignoring all the work that goes into it, how they're striving to be that way. If you take Marcus Aurelius as this perfectly formed philosopher king god among men, you're missing that he was writing in meditations. The purpose of him writing meditations was to be the person he was aspiring to be.
00:19:23:12 - 00:19:46:14
Unknown
It was. It was an act of he was challenging himself. He was chiding himself. He was working on himself. And so we don't want to see these people as being born that way, because they weren't they were working at it and there was people in their life, whether it's Gandhi's father, for Marcus, its Antoninus or his philosophy teacher Rustics, who shaped and inspired and helped him become who he was meant to be.
00:19:46:16 - 00:20:16:02
Unknown
And the same is true for us. Oh boy. This this kind of brings me full circle to, growth mindset. So, Carol Dweck, who is the author of the book and did a lot of really profound studies on on having a growth mindset as opposed to a fixed mindset. This is where we see, like this perfect intersection between stoicism, 2000 years old, and some growth mindset, which is a more recent thing.
00:20:16:02 - 00:20:43:18
Unknown
And, you know, if you want to look at a purveyor of growth mindset, look no further than Sachin Adela at Microsoft, very influential for how he raised his family and how he, you know, really built a second chapter of of Microsoft. My point here is what jumps out is the word striving to be better, working on it. And I think, you were not born good or bad.
00:20:43:20 - 00:21:09:21
Unknown
You have to strive to work to be a good person. Like you need to strive and work on being happy. It's not just something that comes and it's, this striving. You know, this brings me to ideas we've heard on the show many times. Compare and effect 1% better every day. If you can just shift the needle a little bit every day and you do it continuously every day.
00:21:09:24 - 00:21:33:25
Unknown
And I think that the the biggest crossroads I see here is with thinking of David Goggins. He. Yeah, particularly when he had done the second book, he's like, oh my gosh. Like I literally have to find discomfort and challenge every single day. Otherwise I'm going backwards. And this is kind of the same idea, but just from a different perspective.
00:21:34:01 - 00:21:58:08
Unknown
We must strive to be doing the right thing. We can't leave it to chance. And it's this daily thing. And boy, Mark, I'm going to set this one up for you. He mentioned as a mechanism journaling as a way to do this. What did you think? I know look, you tell you write journaling as a key way of keeping yourself, on track.
00:21:58:10 - 00:22:30:09
Unknown
You know, this idea of the compound interest, it is something whether it's happiness, whether it's positive thinking, whether it's a growth mindset is something that you can track and you can hold yourself accountable. I think accountability is probably the key word. but when I combine that with what we just heard from Ron Holiday regarding, you know, no one's born a saint, is this idea of reassurance, this strive to being better is great for me to hear, because then I know everybody's put in that effort.
00:22:30:11 - 00:22:58:18
Unknown
You know, again, as Ron Holiday said, Marcus Aurelius wrote meditations. We're still talking about it 2000 years ago. Well, it wasn't something that he naturally came out, was born and, you know, produced a bit of work. He was working on it all of his life. And that's reassuring, I think, to us, as well as all of our moonshots, listeners and everybody else in that as long as we stay diligent and maybe use something like journaling to help us stay accountable, we can all strive to be better.
00:22:58:18 - 00:23:30:13
Unknown
As you pointed out. At the same time, what I also really like is not only this angle of reassurance, but it's also motivating. It's nice to hear that people have always worked at trying to get themselves better. They've always had that drive to go out and maybe become, let's maybe not a saint. I'm not sure whether I'll become a saint in my life, but at least in the eyes of maybe others, I might get to a point where I have positively impacted them through my drive and through my ability to strive to be good.
00:23:30:15 - 00:24:05:11
Unknown
Now, for me, that is the biggest motivator because that will then positively impact other people. That will help me feel good about the life that I've lived. And then reassures the sort of this concept of legacies will probably come on to talk about later in the show, because you're positively leaving behind a sort of cookie, a cookie trail, as it were, like a fairy tale of positive moments throughout your life that kind of keep other people inspired, keep other people feeling maybe even happy, or maybe even motivated to go out and do their own work themselves.
00:24:05:11 - 00:24:30:22
Unknown
Yeah. So let's play a little game here. Let's imagine we were going to journal on doing the right thing. Let's see how crazy like simple and easy we can make it. I'm going to read to you a couple of prompts, and let you tell me which you if you were going to have to write a journal right now about doing the right thing, I'm going to throw a few at you.
00:24:30:24 - 00:24:58:01
Unknown
You can tell me which one you really like and why. Okay, so here are some journal prompts to help reflect on doing the right thing. Okay. Number one, what does doing the right thing mean to you personally, and how do you determine what is right in various situations? Think of a time when you did the right thing even though it was difficult.
00:24:58:03 - 00:25:21:02
Unknown
What motivated you. How did you feel after it? Who or what has influenced your sense of right and wrong the most? How do these influences align with your personal values? So I got a whole list of them here. But like let's get into it. Like which of those makes you go, ooh, I could write about them. I think the one that stands out to me straight away was the second one.
00:25:21:05 - 00:25:42:03
Unknown
So think of a time where as positive and and and reflect on it. I think that based on what we've just been talking about, this idea of reflection, this idea of, compound interest stands out to me because let's say this could be something very, very small, or it could be something enormous. If we go down the small route, let's say I'm sitting here, Mike.
00:25:42:09 - 00:26:02:04
Unknown
We we rap, podcast recording. we've given a high five to all of our members, and now I'm going to sit down and think, okay, well, what's been really good? I might sit here and think of a time that's positively impacted me as maybe one of our members writing in with something, a really positive sentiment. Hey, thanks so much Mike, Mark and my family for pulling out this insight.
00:26:02:06 - 00:26:26:04
Unknown
Something as small a behavior that somebody else has done has such a positive impact on me, much like a butterfly effect, that I am compelled to then put in the effort again tomorrow. Yeah, well next week. Yeah. Likewise. Maybe it's again going back to my sentiment earlier. Maybe somebody holds open the door, maybe somebody smiles. Maybe somebody even does something that's not with me.
00:26:26:06 - 00:26:51:25
Unknown
Maybe somebody thanks. The bus driver well, holds the door open for somebody else, and I see it. And I think, oh, there is a positive bit of humanity, or there is an element of people caring for each other. That's the sort of thing that I would reflect on. Mike, I think, you know what, that's such a positive experience that I've witnessed, whether I'm involved or not, that will help me kind of put a smile on my face.
00:26:51:25 - 00:27:11:22
Unknown
Yes, maybe I'll share that story with someone else and it'll put a smile on their face. Yeah, that, I think, is a demonstration in my mind of how to look at any opportunity in the day or any behavior in the day, and see it perhaps as a positive, influence and how I'm going to go out and, and feel for Mike.
00:27:12:03 - 00:27:33:18
Unknown
That's for me. How do you react when you hear those journal prompts? look, I like those, but I'm I'm totally cheating. I'm looking down the list and picking another one just to spice it up a bit. I like this one. consequences of inaction, right? About a situation where you didn't take action even though you felt you should have.
00:27:33:20 - 00:28:05:02
Unknown
That's the challenge. That's that's confronting, isn't it? Oh, getting into the air. We're getting into the uncomfortable spaces now. Oh, wait. Okay, okay, okay. But here's why I like this. Because you need to read books like this and do exercises like this. Because it's not in our nature to go there, right? No, no. You know, and this makes me think of some, one time recently, I had been invited to an event, and I had said in advance I wasn't able to make it.
00:28:05:04 - 00:28:37:25
Unknown
And, I know the folks would really have liked me to be a part of it, but I said, you know, when I saw them the following time, I apologize for not being there. But in doing so, I also realized I should have maybe said that earlier and quicker. The point being is like those things you can go around in your head on those, but if you journal about them when the moment strikes, you can be more decisive and feel better about acting the way you want to act.
00:28:37:25 - 00:28:48:21
Unknown
Right? And everything gets, you know, messy in life. Like, you know, Mike Tyson says everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.
00:28:48:23 - 00:29:11:25
Unknown
But this is why I think these conversations matter is to it's really programed yourself to act in the very best way you can. And sometimes, like, what's the difference between saying, I'm sorry, you know, two weeks, whatever. But there is a difference in the end. Yeah. And yeah, you're totally right. And it's it's that ability to journal helps you process.
00:29:12:05 - 00:29:32:24
Unknown
Yeah. I think, you know, when there have been moments when I've looked back and similarly to yourself, maybe thought that I should have done something quicker, maybe I should have apologized a little bit sooner. Well, maybe I should have said thank you sooner when you write it down and compartmentalize, maybe how you're feeling about it, that becomes more evident quicker.
00:29:33:04 - 00:29:52:01
Unknown
Yeah. And you realize that was an opportunity to grow. That was an opportunity for me to learn something from this discomfort. I'm sort of feeling inside. Yeah, right. Well, this nagging feeling in my head, I wonder what that is. Let's explore it. And then by doing so, you realize I should have said thank you. That small behavior would have had a positive impact.
00:29:52:04 - 00:30:20:05
Unknown
Yeah, in the long run. And I've got one more for you, Mark. And this one like this is to go full circle. What are some common challenges or temptations that make it difficult to do the right thing? And here's the kicker how can you prepare yourself to face these obstacles? So what you're doing there is getting into a fairly sophisticated journaling approach where you've been able to identify and acknowledge, hey, I struggle with these things.
00:30:20:07 - 00:30:38:13
Unknown
But then the prompt goes, well, how are you going to prepare for these in the future? let's say you struggle with some social interactions or whatever, or, you know, if people are presenting options to you that, you know, you know, that are not right, but you don't really want to go, you don't want that confrontation or whatever it is.
00:30:38:15 - 00:30:59:24
Unknown
If you journal about them before they happen, that that courage to journal on them and to think about how you would act if you are literally preparing yourself to to act better in the future. Right? Yeah. And and to me, I mean, we've really picked up on this sort of little idea, this hint that Ryan Holiday left us on journaling.
00:31:00:00 - 00:31:21:14
Unknown
But I think this is where we can go right at it about doing the right thing right now. And this is totally within our control. We've all got a pen and paper. We've all got like a laptop to write notes on. You can literally press pause on the podcast and get straight after it. That is your choice big time.
00:31:21:14 - 00:32:00:03
Unknown
And I think the only build I can do there might be is when you when I've got into a habit of with my Kindle, but also with, you know, paperbacks, for example, the meditations I've got to hear is when I find something that inspires me. So outside, maybe a conversation that you and I have had or a situation that I've run into during my day, if I find something that's particularly captures my attention, maybe jaws with me, or maybe it incites an idea of our market in the column, or I'll highlight it on my Kindle, and that then allows me to come back to it later and journal or reflect or think about it
00:32:00:03 - 00:32:29:12
Unknown
again. And that, for me, is a great, assistance as well in trying to expand, I think, my exposure to things in the world, but also spark that curiosity with how I might react when that certain situation comes around. Yeah. Now, what's so great about the clips that you've gathered together is, you know, we've already covered this, you know, idea of being the change that you want in the world.
00:32:29:14 - 00:32:52:18
Unknown
And it's all about this daily striving to be better. But we've actually got now, a clip where we actually see the author, Ryan Holiday, relating the doing the right thing as a challenge for himself. And it's a great story. So wanting to unleash it on this man. Yeah, that's exactly right, Mike. We're going to hear now from Ron Holiday, putting, himself in the driving seat.
00:32:52:20 - 00:33:11:05
Unknown
You know, if we hear the idea of living a good life and making decisions, much like we've discussed so far, based on what we want the world to be, we've obviously got to live it. So Ron Holiday here in this next clip, as he speaks at ACL live, actually demonstrates how he is doing the right thing right now.
00:33:11:11 - 00:33:33:03
Unknown
Okay, so this idea of like what's legal, right? What we're obligated to do is the minimum. The couple years ago, I bought the rights from my publisher for marks to release his meditations. Is this book. It changed my life and I wanted to publish like a premium edition that could really stand the test of time. So I bought the rights to meditations, which I did this cool edition of.
00:33:33:03 - 00:33:52:18
Unknown
I bought even the rights to my book, The Daily Stoic, and I put out these really cool editions. I found this company. They were partially based in Texas. They're a Bible manufacturer. And they they did their manufacturing in Belarus, where they had been in business for many, many years, and we had this great deal going. The books looked great, they worked great, they sold great.
00:33:52:21 - 00:34:14:21
Unknown
And then, a couple of years ago, sadly almost a year and a half now, right there was some, some trouble in the region, let's say. And there's a reason, it turns out that Belarus, where the books were manufactured, has been complicit in Putins invasion of Ukraine. It's because Kiev and this river here is how Belarus accesses the Black Sea.
00:34:14:22 - 00:34:36:10
Unknown
Otherwise it is a totally landlocked nation. So the reason that Lukashenko is collaborating with Putin is because he wants this right, this territory right here. He wants to carve out a little bit of Ukraine so he can have access to the Black Sea. Now, my handful of books I'm publishing here have very little to do with this geopolitical issue.
00:34:36:10 - 00:34:57:23
Unknown
That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that I had to then make a decision. There are some sanctions on the nation of Belarus. not as many as Russia. I check with my lawyer, I check with people I know. There's nothing legally wrong with me continuing to manufacture here, contributing to this economy. Right. Running stuff through this active war zone.
00:34:57:25 - 00:35:11:22
Unknown
But it didn't feel right. And so I said, you know what? Why don't we find a manufac sure that we're a little more comfortable with? We'd already decided not to work in China. That's why we went to this company in the first place, even though it would have been cheaper there. But let's find someone else. And we found someone in England.
00:35:11:24 - 00:35:34:20
Unknown
Also a great family business. They do great work. It's almost three times as expensive per book to manufacture them here, right? And so on paper, of course, I would rather not do business with Belarus, but when I'm thinking about a different kind of paper, maybe my opinion changes a little bit, right? I love this line that it's not a principle law unless it costs you.
00:35:35:00 - 00:35:51:18
Unknown
It's not a principle unless it costs you money specifically sometimes. So when we think about what we're allowed to do, when we think about what everyone else is doing and then we have to go, well, what can I sleep with at night? What do I think? What do I want on my conscience? What am I going to be able to tell my kids?
00:35:51:18 - 00:36:15:02
Unknown
I think about this decision a few years ago, almost ten years ago now, that CVS decides to stop carrying cigarets, people thought, oh, this will cost them a couple of $1 billion and it won't matter, right? Because people would just buy the cigarets elsewhere. In fact, it does cost CVS billions of dollars. But they find overall across the nation, smoking goes down, period.
00:36:15:07 - 00:36:37:17
Unknown
One vendor deciding not to stock a product that is not good for you, that nobody thinks people should be doing. Even the people that smoke CVS makes this decision cost them a lot, but it gains the world a lot. Ooh, there's some nice stuff there. I mean, yeah, proof principles cost you. how do you know how you sleep at night?
00:36:37:19 - 00:37:08:22
Unknown
And that distinction, just because it's not illegal. Right. And we often hide behind. Well, I'm not breaking any laws. As if. Hey, I found a loophole. So it's okay. I think this idea that you want to be able to sleep well at night, and I think, you know, we mentioned, journaling is one thing I think the transparency by which companies, choose to operate is another way that they can hold themself accountable.
00:37:08:24 - 00:37:35:03
Unknown
I think that in the end of the day, Ryan Holiday is never going to be on his deathbed. So, damn, I paid three times as much for printing the new books in England. Like, that was the gravest mistake. No, he's going to be like, I feel good that I did the right thing. I could sleep at night, and that's what matters most.
00:37:35:05 - 00:37:59:06
Unknown
And I think sometimes in our rush, we fail to think about what do we want to how do we want to sleep at night? And again, a little bit, this loop of that I've mentioned before, which is, you know, legacy and how do you want to be remembered? These are such powerful ways to frame your actions in the moment, to do the right thing right now.
00:37:59:08 - 00:38:23:17
Unknown
another couple of good ones is imagine if everything you did today was on the cover of tomorrow's newspaper. Yeah. Joe Rogan, do you remember the Joe Rogan one? Imagine there's a documentary crew following around. Yeah. Very popular. Yeah, yeah. So these are just little, tips and tricks that can help you get to terms with what feels right.
00:38:23:19 - 00:38:46:09
Unknown
Because of course it is a bit of a thing. He technically could still print with the company in Belarus. Right. But he chose not to. And those ones are. They're all up here. Right. It's just you going back and forth. but being able to say, hang on, hang on. Like I want to sleep at night. Hang on.
00:38:46:11 - 00:39:11:17
Unknown
What would my grandma say? What would what? This was on the newspaper. What would people think of me? These are just little techniques to force yourself into that clarity, because sometimes it becomes hard. So whether it's journaling or using some of those exercises, this is, I think, core to feeling good. When you get into your pajamas, you've got your hot water bottle, you got your favorite book, you're getting ready to wrap the day up.
00:39:11:17 - 00:39:33:22
Unknown
If you want to feel good about going to bed. I think those are some of the things you can do. Journal on it. Ask yourself if everyone saw what I was doing on a documentary, how would I feel? I think these force you into understanding the consequences of your behavior big time. It very much reminds me, Mike, of Daniel Pink's The Power of Regret.
00:39:33:24 - 00:39:58:20
Unknown
You know, he did a huge study into Americans and what they essentially feel, I suppose, on their deathbed. And I remember and I'm looking at some of the notes we took back when we did the show on, on a podcast. If only I'd done the Right Thing was one of the key, regrets that a lot of people had specifically in the column of morality and this idea of goodness.
00:39:58:20 - 00:40:21:00
Unknown
Yes. Which speaks I think it's exactly to where you're going with this. And obviously what Ron Holiday's talking about here. If we don't want to get to, you know, closing time and thinking, if only I'd been a little bit nicer, maybe I'd held that door open or maybe I'd not benefited or profited from a certain situation because it was detrimental to others.
00:40:21:02 - 00:40:46:20
Unknown
But I, I think forcing ourselves to look ahead and wonder about, as you were just saying then, legacy, what other people will remember us for, how we are behaving to others, and what if we all interact with people that we may never see again? Bus drivers, people on the street, they might remember us as, you know, being unpleasant regardless of whether they know us or not.
00:40:47:00 - 00:41:13:15
Unknown
That's still a lasting impact. Yeah. And what I think, as we were talking about prior to the show, is this all stems, I think, from the idea of the circle of control. Yeah. What is it in my day to day life that I can control? And actually it is that outward behavior. it is going back to your example earlier, what I might be able to do for the climate, maybe it's purchasing fewer cars, maybe it's installing solar panels, but it's something up to me.
00:41:13:19 - 00:41:35:21
Unknown
Yeah. And I think that benefit when you get later in life is then you can look back and say, you know what, I did a bloody good job, I tried hard. Exactly, exactly. And you know, there's something else that's within your control. And that is like, if you're really interested in the work of Ryan Holiday, there is one destination on the internet, Mark, that I believe has a back catalog of great studies of his work.
00:41:35:24 - 00:42:08:23
Unknown
Yes. I don't think it was in Marcus Aurelius, his meditations, unfortunately, I had a look in it. I wasn't quite there yet, but I'm sure if he was around nowadays he'd probably recommend it to. And that is moonshots, don't I? Oh, where you can get translations or sorry, I should say, transcriptions for all of our shows. You can get into a huge back catalog of now like 260 episodes of the weekly show, as well as 35, episodes of the master series, which obviously only our members can access just for the cost of a cup of coffee per week.
00:42:08:23 - 00:42:33:17
Unknown
Oh, which seems pretty good. And conveniently enough, moonshots.io has the destination of where people can go and join exactly on the homepage, so pop along to moonshot video if you want to lean into the work of Daniel Pink. David Goggins or topic of today's Ron Holiday. Yes, indeed. But we aren't quite done yet. We need one more thought.
00:42:33:17 - 00:42:54:04
Unknown
Mark, have you got one thing to get us across the line of doing the right thing right now? The good news, Mike, is we do. We have a great closing clip coming up for us now. We're on holiday is a fantastic, narrative, individual who utilizes a lot of historical figures in bringing to life some of the work from our ancient stoic, cousins, let's call them.
00:42:54:06 - 00:43:12:04
Unknown
So in this final clip, we're going to hear about a story of Ulysses S Grant accepting life without arrogance. And, Mike, the lesson for us today is all about knowing how to let it go. There's this amazing story about Ulysses S Grant. You know, he goes to West Point as a young man. He's this promising young military officer.
00:43:12:07 - 00:43:32:01
Unknown
He serves honorably in the Mexican-American War. But then something goes wrong. He's. Maybe it's the drink. Maybe it's he hates the army, but he basically ends up working for his dad, selling firewood by the side of the road. This is a big fall from West Point to selling firewood by the side of the road. And one of his old friends from West Point comes by one day.
00:43:32:01 - 00:43:54:15
Unknown
Who's still in the army? Well on his way, moving his way up through the ranks. And he's ashamed to see his friend doing this. And he says, Good God, Grant, what are you doing? And Ulysses S Grant just looks at him and he says, I'm solving the problem of poverty, meaning that Grant doesn't care that he's doing a so-called menial job or that it's a humiliating occupation.
00:43:54:16 - 00:44:16:12
Unknown
All he cares about is that he's providing for his family. He's doing a good job, and he doesn't think that this says anything about him as a person. He knows that it doesn't say anything about him as a person. There's this great line from Marcus, really, he says to accept it without arrogance, to let it go. It's crazy to think that just a few years later, Grant would be the head of an enormous army, and a few years after that, he'd be the president of the United States.
00:44:16:12 - 00:44:39:02
Unknown
But for the stoic, there's this idea that comes from our experience, he says, to accept it without arrogance, to let it go with indifference. Meaning you don't let the lowly position change who you are, and you don't let the high position change who you are either. None of it goes to your head, you know. None of it says anything about you as a person because you know who you are as a person, and that's what really matters.
00:44:39:04 - 00:45:13:03
Unknown
Well, there's like a whole like I see like a whole spiderweb of ways to take that. I think, you know, if Eckhart Tolle was listening to that, he would say that is fundamentally about ego. because if you attach too much to your role or position in society, in life or at work, and you are not sufficiently knowing of thyself and then you will have some challenges because of course, positions come and go right.
00:45:13:05 - 00:45:49:20
Unknown
But only yourself, stays the same here. And I think inside of this doing the right thing theme if you will, being able to accept where you are and let go of the ego and get down to the business of just striving to be better every day, like it's amazing, like as soon as you get rid of the ego and get down to the business of self-improvement, of growth, a growth mindset, of embracing challenge and not resenting, not doing the, but me.
00:45:49:20 - 00:46:23:23
Unknown
I have a challenge. You. It's not fair. Well, the news is life ain't fair, so you may as well like bring yourself back down and start with some hard work. I mean, I really like how this juxtaposes this sort of instant success culture, everything shiny on Instagram culture and gets us back to real life. Yeah, that's right. There's there's a great quote that I found in, meditations earlier, like for this, for this, closing clip that I'll, I'll, it's very short.
00:46:23:23 - 00:46:52:14
Unknown
I'll just quickly read it out because I think it's talking exactly to the sentiment you're just expressing there. You may break your heart, but men will still go on as before. So what I hear from that, and the way that I interpret it, is life is going to get tough. But it's up to you how you react and you behave in that situation, whether it's about ego and your position in maybe business or your role externally to other people, it doesn't necessarily or it shouldn't necessarily impact how you behave.
00:46:52:14 - 00:47:18:14
Unknown
It shouldn't impact how you respond or talk to others. Instead, we should focus our energy on what's good, what's positive, what's going to, as you were calling out earlier, impact, perhaps our legacy. Yeah, yeah. Impact the way that we live. Our lives so that we don't regret. But also we can put a smile on other people's faces. You know what a wonderful, power we all have, because we can all influence others.
00:47:18:20 - 00:47:45:11
Unknown
So positively if we choose to. I think for me, that story about Ulysses Grant is calling out his, resistance to letting his ego get in the way of taking care of his family, taking care of his friends, but also just living a slightly more positive life. And I think the key word of this show is and you just said it choose, you have to tune.
00:47:45:13 - 00:48:06:10
Unknown
And then if you've said okay I want to choose to do the right thing, then you know you've got to work on it and you got to go through all of the permutations that we've talked about that come from this book. So much homework to do. Where does your. Yeah, there's a there's a lot in the right thing right now.
00:48:06:10 - 00:48:35:04
Unknown
I think we've really delved Mike into the, the, the back catalogs here with with Ron Holiday. So if you were going to nominate just one item for your special attention, which is, I think it's actually this concept where we can carve out our own future. No one is born a saint. likewise. And I think you you said this prior to recording.
00:48:35:04 - 00:48:55:19
Unknown
Actually, if no one is born a saint, no one is born a devil. Right? So instead, we can influence and control our trajectory and how we behave in our world. So for me, like my homework is striving to be better, to be generous, to be a good version of myself that I think will hopefully impact others in a, in a in a positive way.
00:48:55:21 - 00:49:16:04
Unknown
What about you, Mike? A lot to unpack and a lot to, learn from and journal about in this book, but what's really standing out to you is a little bit of homework. Well, you do mentioned journaling, and I thought it was quite revealing the breadth of work I thought I could do, particularly, preparing myself for whatever future events life holds.
00:49:16:04 - 00:49:37:04
Unknown
And, do you remember I was doing that exercise and it's like, okay, so what have you struggled with and how would you address that? Like, man, I've never done that as a journaling exercise in I it's so unscrewing that one down as well actually. But crazy right. Like it just shows you how much opportunity there is to do the right thing, right?
00:49:37:06 - 00:50:01:17
Unknown
Yeah. Life is full of opportunity, which is a blessing. Yeah. But also it's something where we can choose whether to do it in a positive way or a negative way. Yeah. And hopefully for you and I and all of our listeners, Mike and our members, we're all doing the positive stuff. I hope so too. So a big thank you to you, Mark, and thank you to you, our members, our viewers and our listeners to hear on the show.
00:50:01:17 - 00:50:26:12
Unknown
Wait for this 260 way. We have studied the fifth work of Ryan Holiday on the show Right Thing, right Now. And there were four big ideas. Here's how they roll. First, be the change that you want to see. Yeah, no. Every day is a chance to practice stoic virtues. Number two was striving to be better with a big emphasis on striving because ain't nobody born a saint.
00:50:26:12 - 00:50:53:17
Unknown
So you got to work on it every single day. Number three, what can you, in fact, sleep with at night? This is a big one, and this is why you should do the right thing so your legacy will be intact. And lastly, the big rally, the big crescendo to bring it home on this show is accept and let it go and really get rid of the ego and strive to be better and strive to do the right thing right now.
00:50:53:19 - 00:51:09:14
Unknown
What, show and how totally moonshots it was. It was really a chance for us to be the very best version of ourselves. And that is absolutely spot on. Moonshot thinking. That's a wrap.