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The Fintech Marketing Lab is a podcast where Araminta Robertson, Managing Director at Mint Studios, explores, experiments, and breaks down how fintech marketing actually works in practice.
Intro: Here's an interesting
marketing problem for you.
Say your product has already reached 20%
of small businesses in the us, but almost
none of them know your company exists.
That's a situation at FinTech company.
Parafin.
If a restaurant gets financing through
DoorDash Capital or a studio gets it
through MINDBODY Capital, parafin is
infrastructure powering that, but the
brand sits behind someone else's name.
So the usual build awareness
playbook doesn't really apply,
and I think this happens a lot in
the FinTech infrastructure space.
So this was a really interesting
episode to get into that
particular kind of situation.
Today I'm talking to Gabrielle
Bier content and brand marketing
lead at Parafin about how you build
content strategy from zero when
your product is invisible by design.
Gabrielle has spent over a
decade working in content to
help scale brands like Parafin.
She was the first content hire at Gong
where she operationalized the data
driven thought leadership that made
their content famous, and she ran content
at mid desk before joining Paraffin.
Paraffin is a financial infrastructure
company that lets platforms
offer embedded financing to their
small business customers, just
like mindbody, and DoorDash.
As I mentioned earlier, they funded
more than 50,000 businesses and
raised a 100 million series C in 2024.
In this episode, we talk about how she
picked a term nobody owned yet, which
was embedded capital, and got to page
one of Google within her first month.
Why she's building for AO first
and how that overlaps with
what already works for SEO.
The mini committee she uses to get
executives, data scientists into the
content she produces and her experience
with X and how she's getting better
results with X than some other platforms.
This episode is another contact case
study, so we went really deep into
the workings behind Paraffins content.
So it was really fun on that aspect.
So yeah, let's get into it.
Generic intro: You are listening to
the FinTech Marketing Lab podcast.
I'm Arminta from Mint Studios, a
content marketing agency specialized
in the FinTech space, and this
podcast is where we experiment,
explore, and break down how FinTech
marketing actually works in practice.
Each episode I talk with top FinTech
marketers about what they're testing,
what they're learning, and how
they're pushing the boundaries of
brand strategy and team building.
With that, let's get into today's episode.
Araminta Robertson: So the, the first
question I wanna ask is, you've recently
done the switch to Parafin and you went
from mid desk where you're targeting
like compliance managers and it's kind
of a complex topic targeting people who
are, as part of their job to consume
content, to now you're targeting more.
I mean, you'll tell me, is
it product or SaaS people?
You can tell me, but like, how has that
shift gone and what have you seen as
the biggest difference when it comes
to like, creating content for Parafin?
Gabrielle Bier: For sure.
Yeah, I think the biggest
difference in Switch is just
the mindset of the audience.
I think product leaders are always
thinking about what's possible, how they
can create a better customer experience,
launch new products, grow faster.
And that kind of gives you more room
to tell stories and paint a picture
of where you think the industry
is going and then kind of aligning
your brand with that narrative.
And I think like something that I've
really enjoyed at Parafin we work with
so many small businesses and we're
really, behind the financing there.
So, when you talk about a restaurant
opening its second location or a
contractor buying equipment to take
on more jobs, it makes the impact
of our product feel very real.
And that's a cool thing to put
in front of product leaders,
just these tangible stories.
Araminta Robertson: Yeah.
No, I love that.
And I think you've got an
interesting challenge at Parafin.
I hadn't realised that you, I
like this quote that I read.
I think it was in an interview with your
head of marketing where your product has
touched 20% of small businesses in the
US but people aren't aware of your brand
because they don't use your brand name.
So, it's like MINDBODY
Capital or DoorDash Capital.
You are the ones powering that.
And I thought that was really interesting.
And so of course I have to ask,
like in this space where your
white label essentially and
companies can't use your branding.
what does that look like
from a content perspective?
you have awareness, but amongst
like a really small niche of people,
like how are you from a content
perspective trying to get the word
out and use that brand awareness?
Gabrielle Bier: For sure.
I mean, I think our short term goal is
not necessarily to be a household name
just yet, but to be a leader within our
IP like our platform audience and product
teams and the executives at those types
of companies that are ready to build
out and embedded financing products.
for us, the content is how we
are shaping our perspective and
showing up in front of those people.
So we focus on trying to own
conversations around embedded finance,
AI powered underwriting and what
platforms can learn from the businesses
that they're actually serving.
And so if we can kind of consistently
help people understand where the
industry is headed and teach 'em
something new hopefully they start to
associate those ideas with Parafin even
if we're operating behind the scenes.
And then longer term, of course, I
would love to, roll out a community
led growth play where we are focused
on the entrepreneurs that are the end
users of Parafin and really trying to
learn from their day to days and kind
of be a space for them to collaborate
and grow their businesses together.
Araminta Robertson: So, yeah, this is
kind of what I wanna focus on in this
episode is what does content look like?
Going from zero to one when the brand,
obviously you are established, but
it's still is the brand awareness
at wide that isn't there just yet.
So I think that's really interesting.
How do you think about like, strategy
then when you're targeting those
kind of innovators at these companies
and how do you even reach them?
Like how do they do their research?
What are they looking for?
Yeah, all that.
Gabrielle Bier: I think my first couple
of months have been trying to knock
out some foundational wins for Parafin
and like I said, own that kind of
conversation around embedded financing,
embedded lending, embedded capital
and really kind of educate the market
on how Parafin shows up differently.
I also think about, content
from two different perspectives.
We're trying to earn the right to
participate in the conversation by
creating this foundational content that
our audience might be searching for,
and now they're likely searching for it
via AI as opposed to traditional search.
so I'm working with a EO tooling to
identify which topics we should go after,
which keywords need to be in our content,
even outlining some of the content.
But as far as publishing something
directly from, ai, I still am
pretty hands-on in that sense.
I wanna maintain my editorial in chief
kind of status in this role at least
until I feel like it gets to a point
where the deliverables could be like,
just hit publish upon getting a draught.
I think the other component of our
content zero to one content strategy
is also thinking about how we show up
different than anyone else in our space.
And that might be a company's proprietary
data or just unique customer stories
or insights around the product.
And I think at Parafin we have both a
tonne of small business data and small
business stories, which gives us a really
strong foundation for thought leadership.
So if we're tracking, I'm publishing
a piece this week on embedded lending,
but I'm using real stories that are
anonymized to give colour to how Parafin
and embedded lending actually works.
So that's something I always think
about is just how we earn the right
to show up in the conversation.
But then also, what's different about us
that we can really bring to the table.
Araminta Robertson: So would you
say the, like currently, what is
the role of content for Parafin?
Is it mostly increased brand awareness?
Is it more educate?
What would you say is
the objective currently?
Gabrielle Bier: It's a combination
of the two, I would say.
in terms of educating search opportunities
and really trying to capture and
own keywords that not, there isn't
necessarily a tonne of content around.
So it is a little bit of category
creation at the same time.
For instance something that I published
my first month at Parafin was a
definitive guide on embedded capital.
And that topic hadn't really
been owned by anyone at all.
So I, kind of looked at different thought
leaders internally captured their kind
of insights around how we do things
differently at Parafin and how that
kind of translates to embedded capital,
and then publish this long form piece.
And it's already, the first ranking
piece on that, that keyword.
And also like showing
up in AI search as well
Araminta Robertson: Yeah, that's great.
I think we've worked with a few embedded
banking companies and I just know
that it's such a niche area, right?
You're, there's a limited set
of keywords and topics that
you can write about, I guess.
So what, how are you prioritising those?
And is your goal to just own all of
them and then whatever comes next?
Or what is your objective, or how
are you thinking about like those
specific in such a niche kind of area?
Gabrielle Bier: when I joined
the blog was super lean.
There was no thought leadership on it.
So right now it's just kind of making
our mark and putting a flag down.
the way that I'm prioritising
things is what is the lowest
hanging fruit opportunity.
For instance, in embedded
capital, there was nothing.
So let's just put a stake in the ground
and then now it's like embedded lending.
There's some room for
us to, kind of own that.
And so, that's what I'm
kind of focused on next.
And I think these will amount to that
broader embedded finance category
because that is a very saturated space.
But the more that we can do kind of
like specific to what our product
does and who we're working with the
more traction I think we'll have
in that embedded finance kind of
Araminta Robertson: Yeah.
Yeah.
Love that.
Yeah, I mean, this is very much
the foundation of our bottom
of the funnel thinking as well.
You've already got people out there
actively doing research, money in
their hand, looking for a solution.
Start with those people and then
work your way up the funnel, right?
If not, you're competing with a lot
of other interests when you're at the
top of the funnel, so it makes sense
to start at the bottom, and then your
results will be quicker, sooner as well,
and then it's easier to go up funnel as
Gabrielle Bier: Totally.
Yeah.
I think in parallel it's kind of
like how are we thinking about our
brand and how we want to actually
show up in that broader space too.
And so, like, as I've been knocking
out these kind of foundational pieces,
I'm also thinking about, okay, what
kind of, data storytelling series
could we publish in a few months?
And what kind of maybe small business
video profiles could we also highlight
and like have this kind of bigger
play kind of working, and growing
so that we have this repository of
content to kind of go live with ones.
We already have some credibility
in this kind of more narrow scope.
Araminta Robertson: Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
are you going to experiment
with other types of content or
other distribution channels?
I don't know, like video or LinkedIn?
What else have you been
experimenting with?
From a content perspective?
Gabrielle Bier: video.
We have been doing some tests internally
of what we can do with AI video
too, just because We don't have to
Source, talent or coordinate schedules
or get a video production team.
But then also we do have some customer
testimonial videos in partnership
with some of our platforms that we do
partner with that we're working on.
And I think it is really those merchant
stories that kind of add a tonne
of colour to our content strategy.
So video will become a huge
component for us in the near future.
Additionally, I think as we're kind
of growing our content repository
on the website, we'll probably build
out a dedicated resource centre
where we can have gated content
and see how that kind of plays out.
It's a blank space environment for
me right now to test things out.
So that's kind of cool.
But then at the same time,
it's like there's so much room
to experiment and get signal.
So, I've just kind of been focusing
on what I know works and then
going after experimental avenues.
Araminta Robertson: Yeah.
That's so exciting.
I think what I find in this space embedded
lending about an invoice financing,
it's often companies when they see their
competitors do something like this,
they're like, oh gosh, we have to do it.
And that's why I imagine merchant
stories or customer or case studies,
you wanna embed that as well in
your content at embed everything.
But yeah.
I imagine that's like a key part,
right, as well of like increasing
awareness and conversion,
Gabrielle Bier: Yeah.
And being different because all of those
stories are unique and something that I've
tried to do, for a quick win is we have
a lot of compliance regulatory review for
our content in order for it to go out.
But there is a way you can anonymize
things so that you can showcase the colour
that's actually there in those stories,
but then, move fast with it and ship fast.
So for instance, we have over 650
Trustpilot reviews, and those are
our merchants that are receiving
capital from Parafin, even if it's,
white labelled as something else.
And those are like the hard
hitting stories where it's like,
I was in, a tough situation.
I got capital fast, now my business
has three x growth or whatever.
And so like aggregating those and
creating, thought leadership around that
has been a fun part of my role in the
most recent era, my last week or so.
But I'm definitely trying to get
creative and be scrappy when it comes
to like, finding these unique moments
for us to show up and then ultimately I
think that will serve our a EO strategy
well, because it's real life examples.
Like Reddit is often cited
quite frequently on AI search.
And so like, something like that could
potentially work for us pretty well.
Araminta Robertson: Yeah, I
wanna touch on a EO later.
'cause I think that's interesting
that you're focusing so much on that.
Another interesting challenge that
you've got two customers, right?
Two types of customers.
You've got the enterprise, so like a
DoorDash or mindbody who is kind of,
I guess the inter mediator or Yeah.
The solution that the
SaaS or the merchant uses.
And then you've obviously got
the small business at the end,
the SaaS, the small business.
So how do you think about that
from a content perspective?
Who are you mostly trying to target and
does the content change depending on
who, like how are you targeting both?
Gabrielle Bier: I think we're lucky
that our product is quite technical, and
so it's kind of like finding a balance
between showing what the product can do
to attract that more technical buyer.
But then also like, the stories, the,
the actual merchant stories too that
could resonate with just about anyone.
And so like we could write about how
our underwriting model works and how
that could serve an engineer potentially
evaluating our API, but then if you also
frame it around what that underwriting
model means for small business, getting
access to capital and how inclusive it
is and how easy it is for someone to,
receive capital, then it might land for
a broader business audience as well.
So, that's also, like I think in terms
of deliverables, I am kind of striking a
balance between hypertech blogs that are
engineering team or data science team,
Mike Penn with, this go to market, more
business oriented thought leadership that
explains things on a less technical level
and also like the outcome of what these
kinds of or what our product does provide.
So it's a constant, finding balance,
but it makes, our content dynamic and
it makes my job really interesting.
Araminta Robertson: How, because you
can't work directly with small businesses.
Right.
So are you saying that then an enterprise
if they read a merchant story, that also
helps with the kind of, acquiring them?
Is that what you're
Gabrielle Bier: Yeah, Yeah,
because I think, product teams are
thinking about customer experience.
Those merchants are the
customers.
So like if
they're seeing, their lives being made
easier, I think it makes it easier
for then a product team to wanna be
like, oh, we wanna offer this sort of
capability to our end user as well.
Araminta Robertson: Yeah, I
guess so you can capture them.
They're doing research on
embedded lending a better capital.
You capture them by going into technical
details, and then in there you've got
like maybe a merchant story that kind of
shows that.
Yeah.
Okay.
Nice.
Yeah.
Very cool.
That's so interesting.
you mentioned that you write
quite technical content.
I've seen that you've got a
product and engineering blog.
Is that the one that you're
talking about when you say
Gabrielle Bier: Yeah.
And for that, I'm not the
subject matter expert.
Um, so
that's where I lean on our internal team.
Our founders are both they both
have very technical backgrounds.
Our CEO is a data scientist at Robinhood.
So, they have that editorial eye
for knowing like what we wanna talk
about and how we wanna talk about it.
So perhaps a data scientist will draught
something and then as part of editorial
review, I'll loop in our executives
just to like, kind of give that, where
I would normally step in that kind
of final sign off on our content.
And there's lots of room for that.
I'm in the process of just like adding
more and more of those technical pieces to
our editorial calendar just because it's
so core to, I think, our brand long term.
And how it'll be recognised.
Araminta Robertson: Yeah, no, 'cause
I was reading them and I was like,
wow, this is really, I like it.
It's very in depth.
So I wanted to ask, so you're not writing
them, so it's a data scientist who does
the writing and then you edit them.
How, what is the process for
Gabrielle Bier: Yeah.
A data scientist or an engineer
or a product manager will come
up with the initial draught.
And, they'll share it with, we
will probably, I'll put together
like a little committee for review.
So,
potentially an executive, usually
our CEO, he's very hands-on with
the content that we do ship.
And he'll review it.
I'll do like a final review for GL
for grammar and fluidity and then
also keyword side of things, making
sure it's, good for S-E-O-A-E-O.
And then we'll work with our designers.
It'll also go through legal
and compliance review.
we will ship things out.
in terms of distribution I think
we've been experimenting a little
bit, well, we're really starting
to like focus on experimenting on x
just because that technical audience
Yeah.
That, that technical audience is there.
even I was talking to some of
our engineers and they're like, that's
how we find out, like, about our jobs
or, just the industry or like, that's how
we're like en engaging in conversations.
It's like how you think about LinkedIn
has been for the last decade plus.
It's like X is where it's at
for the more technical audience.
we're doubling down on,
our social strategy there.
The last tech blog we published on our
paraform, I also published it as an X
article and we had, I think like 600
times our impressions that we normally
receive just because it was like a
new surface for us and I think it was
something that was highly searchable.
And so, that's something we're gonna
com continue to experiment with.
It's putting me outside of my comfort
zone because I've been, a LinkedIn
marketer for the last decade plus.
And going back to XI haven't been
on it since it was Twitter, so
it'll be cool to keep, trying things
out there and definitely collaborating
with our product and engineering
team to make sure that we're showing
up in all the right ways on x.
Araminta Robertson: That's great.
I know people listening might,
so I think it's great that you've
got a data scientist you're
technical people doing the writing.
What I've heard is that this is
often quite hard to get done because
they're very busy and all of that.
And that's why we all always say,
if they're not gonna write it, you
can interview them and then write.
That's another like way to do it.
How did you encourage the data
scientists and the technical
people to do the writing?
Or is this something that came
from above and it was like,
okay, now it's part of your job?
Gabrielle Bier: Yeah,
Araminta Robertson: that work?
Gabrielle Bier: I think I was lucky
in the last couple of instances
where the draughts were handed to me.
and just are so excited about what
they're building that it was just,
and we now have like tooling, like PO
where it's easy to just like, jo down
your thoughts, get a draught ready,
and then we can refine And so, that
helps expedite things just having,
AI to help with that initial draught.
But then also now I'm in a position
where we wanna do more of this,
so I will definitely be kind of
pitching to our internal team members
being like, Hey, I heard you had an
interesting experience with this.
Can I either in interview you or
can you spin up a draught for me?
And I'm gonna test out and see what works.
I'm happy at this point to like, go in
and help, facilitate the content creation.
But honestly, our team is so, like AI
first, so like deeply rooted in Claude
at this point that I feel like them
spinning up a draught is just like,
a 30 minute kind of project for them.
Araminta Robertson: Interesting.
I'm curious to see which
one you find works best.
Because the issue I have found with
people, like technical people using
Claude or Cha Bt, is that then it's
quite hard to parse between the nuggets
and the stuff that's just fluff.
'cause you know how Claude
in these tools are, right?
Everything just becomes fluff if you
don't give it a lot of direction.
So maybe, if they're really good
at prompting it, it could be
really good, but I'd be worried
that it's all the, it's all fluff.
And then you're like, okay,
but where's the insight?
Whereas I guess an interview you can, or
even if they just, whisper flow, right?
Even if they just talk to their Google doc
or whatever and it just gives out bullets.
That's also fantastic.
Right.
So I'm curious to see what
Gabrielle Bier: How it plays out.
Yeah,
I know.
I think all of our tech blogs
are very granular in terms of the
content that we're sharing and the
processes that we're digging into.
And so that's what I think kind
of counterbalance is the AI fluff,
is that we are like so specific
around how we're doing things like
step by step or, just the way that
they're thinking about things.
So that's helping us at this point.
But yeah, if it's something we wanna
scale, I could definitely see that
Araminta Robertson: Yeah,
Gabrielle Bier: a bigger issue.
Araminta Robertson: sure.
Yeah.
So then on onto like more sales and
tracking and all of this, are you
also trying to encourage the sales
team to use this in your content?
Or what do you think is the role of
your content here in the sales cycle, and
Gabrielle Bier: Yeah,
Araminta Robertson: team use it?
Gabrielle Bier: As I've gotten more
and more I guess like situated in
my role, I have worked more and
more closely with our sales org.
And like I said, we do kind of like a
mini committee of editorial review for
each and every piece that we publish.
And so I'll often loop in our head of
sales or an ae or an account manager
to do review of my content before
shipping just because they have that
frontline kind of knowledge of, how
platforms are talking about things.
And I also wanna make sure at this point,
we are a three person marketing team.
I wanna make sure that the content
that I'm producing could serve as
almost mid funnel and help with,
getting a deal across the finish line.
So, yeah, I lean on them heavily just
to make sure everything is resonating
and that there are relevant topics
that we're actually shipping and that
even our editorial calendars aligned
with, you know, target accounts.
and then in terms of distribution
I try to make it as easy as
possible to share our content out.
I post in, in Slack as soon as
something ships with, link to our
ex posts, our, in our LinkedIn post.
I also provide templates so that
they can, copy, paste and publish.
I think we're shopping around for
like an employee advocacy tool so that
process can be streamlined a bit further.
And I'm always on deck to enable our
team to share on LinkedIn because I
think I've had a lot of success in
previous roles where the personal
brands really amplify the core company
brand.
So anything I can do to help there,
that's what I'm signing up for.
Araminta Robertson: Yeah, I've
heard good things about Octa Post.
I think
Gabrielle Bier: yeah.
I used them a while ago, I think at Gong.
Yeah.
Araminta Robertson: Yeah, I
think they do that, right.
Employee
Gabrielle Bier: Yeah.
And Sprout does.
There's a couple others out there.
that's my task at hand
Araminta Robertson: Yeah, that could
Gabrielle Bier: I The right one.
Yeah.
Araminta Robertson:
but yeah, you're right.
Especially if they're experts in
their field and they have connections,
and even if they don't post that,
often content that's coming from the
expert can land a lot more than, the
marketer or maybe someone who doesn't
have the connections with the product
people or your target audience.
Right.
So I think there's a
really big advantage there.
I really like what you
say about mini committee.
What do you mean by that?
Do you mean like you put together like
someone from sales, someone from product,
someone from somewhere else, and then you,
I dunno, is it on top of the Google Doc?
Something like that, and you're
like, okay, everyone needs to review.
does that process work?
Gabrielle Bier: yeah.
No, it's, it is literally like A-T-L-D-R
for reviewers, and then it's, it
breaks down who reviews it by when.
It depends on the article, if it's
something like, I just published a
piece, like I mentioned on embedded
lending where I was looking at different
a merchant use cases, how much, of
a cash advance they were receiving
and what they were using it for.
That was like, I had our CEO review it
because he loves that type of content.
And I really wanted his, sign off before
publishing and it was the first one we'd
ever published in that kind of way before.
And then legal compliance, because,
we're talking about merchant stories,
even though they're anonymized,
I wanna make sure that, we're not
saying anything in the wrong way.
But if it's something, like, I did a piece
on what is a B2B, buy now, pay later,
and what does it mean for platforms?
That I had a committee where, I was
thinking about the account executives
that were in BNPL kind of, sales
cycles and kind of offering that as
like a, as a solution for platforms.
So I leaned on two of our account
executives for that to review my
initial draught before then sharing
it with our sales leader and also,
the typical kind of like, legal
and compliance kind of review.
But it just depends on what the topic
is at hand and that will determine
kind of the breadth of the committee.
But I think at this point, because content
marketing is so new for Parafin, each
and every post that we're publishing
does have some sort of committee
Araminta Robertson: Yeah.
Nice.
That's great.
But it also enables buy-in, I think a
little bit like when everyone's part of
the process, then it's more exciting when
you see leads, when you see rankings, it's
like, okay, we're a lot more involved.
So, no, I
Gabrielle Bier: That's such a good point.
no it's cool.
And then we have like a, an internal
recognition tool as well, so like if
someone did help me with the content,
it's called Nectar, so I'll give them
nectar points for their contribution.
love this part of Parafin because I
feel like oftentimes I'm in content
roles where I'm just, shipping by
myself on my own little island And just
trying to do, quantity over quality.
And at Parafin it really
is quality over quantity.
Araminta Robertson: I think honestly this
is what differentiates companies nowadays
when it comes to content because it's just
so easy to do quantity right now with ai.
And if you've got a prospect,
especially in your space where, the
sales cycles are super long, these are
multi six, seven figure deals, right?
Just when they click on a blog or
an article, if that's the first
point of contact and it's like AI
slop, how are they going to, what
does that tell them about the brand?
So I think having something that's
so in depth is clear that multiple
people in the team have worked on this.
What does it tell you about the company?
It tells you these are serious people,
they care, and if they put so much
work into their content, chances are
they will with their product as well.
So I always think that I'll see the
content, like a proxy for the product.
And so I think companies, the
approach that you're taking is
definitely the one that works
nowadays when it comes to AI because
Gabrielle Bier: Yeah.
Araminta Robertson: and all this stuff.
So.
Gabrielle Bier: Yeah.
No I wanna try and maintain
it as, as long as I can.
It'll be interesting when it does
come to the like, oh, we wanna do more
Araminta Robertson: More.
yeah.
I know this is a never ending question
and this is something that we're trying
to figure out as well, and I think
there are ways to scale carefully
while maintaining quality and with ai,
but you just have to be very careful.
It has to be quite slow and steady.
you can't go from zero to 100 a month,
in one month, right.
It's gonna, it has to
be like slow and steady.
But there are ways, it's just
still, we're still everything.
Everyone's still figuring that, that out,
I would say.
For sure.
So how does, from a, like, lead generation
or the results that you can see from
this, what have you seen so far?
I know it's early days, but like do you
feel like content plays a role in that?
How are you tracking
the results of content?
Any wins that you can share so far?
Gabrielle Bier: Yeah, I mean, I am
focused on, top of funnel awareness.
So I'm looking at are we growing
reach, are we showing up in search for
people who are already looking for us?
So like non-branded search volume
impressions LinkedIn reach.
But now I'm like, okay,
what's happening on X?
And so that's gonna be definitely
something I'd dig into in the next
quarter or two is, is like how we
are showing up on social media.
But yeah, it's really just those kind
of core, kind of top of funnel metrics.
And then also, who's
coming to our website?
How much time are they spending on it?
Are they going to multiple blog
posts when they're on our website?
Are they ultimately filling
out a demo request form?
I can pay close attention to all of that.
I've put together kind of like a higher
level dashboard for our executive team.
So, and I update it on a monthly
basis at this point, just because our
volume is like one blog post a week
because it is such a thorough process.
So, update on a monthly basis, share
it out with them so that they can get a
deeper view of how content is performing.
I think in terms of measuring success,
it's something we'll continue to
refine as our content strategy scales.
Araminta Robertson: Yeah.
Would you say that eventually
the objective is obviously brand
awareness, but is it also like how
can we influence the sales cycle more?
Like for example, I've interviewed
people from Lio, from unit, and
they each have their own stats.
But it could be things like people who
read more than, so Lio for example,
had this really interesting stat.
People who read more than three
articles are 80% more likely to close.
Like things like this, it's probably
too early stage for that right now.
But like, do you feel that is
where you wanna go, where you can
Gabrielle Bier: Definitely,
Araminta Robertson: and
Gabrielle Bier: definitely.
And we're bringing on a de demand
gen counterpart in the coming weeks.
And so, I think between the two
of us, we'll be able to build out
processes for attribution in that way.
I think just knowing how closely aligned
I am with the sales org those kinds of
metrics will be critical because they're
leaning on our content right now, like, as
a, primary source of just like making sure
prospects have more information about us.
So, I'm excited to think about where
that could go and how we could share
metrics like that in the future.
Araminta Robertson: Yeah, definitely.
I think, and it's so crucial because I
feel like so many times content marketing,
as you've said before, like it can be seen
as just kind of the fun, the nice part.
It's not super necessary, but regularly
we see when content is done well, it can
be the main growth driver of a company.
We have two or three companies where the
work that we're doing the main way that
they acquire customers, there's no other
channel and content marketing can do that.
But the hard part is showing or
demonstrating that, which can be
hard because especially from a brand
awareness perspective, like you can't
track every single time someone's
gonna read a piece of content.
Gabrielle Bier: Totally.
I,
Araminta Robertson: of
our biggest challenges.
Gabrielle Bier: yeah,
I know that's why I think this
foundational work is so important
right now because it's setting up
not only just our credibility but
then also like processes so that
we can move faster in the future.
And, I had an experience being the first
content person at Gong where content
became synonymous with the Gong brand.
And, that's something I would love
to replicate for Parafin especially,
or just in the FinTech world,
like Parafins content is where
I go to learn about X, Y, and Z.
And so,
Araminta Robertson: Yeah, I love that.
Yeah, that's true.
Gong I remember multiple years
ago think, was it the LinkedIn
Gong's LinkedIn page was like
Gabrielle Bier: Yeah, it
was, yeah.
And,
and that started in this foundational
content series that I kind of came in
and operationalized where we took our
data and created unique sales, thought
leadership around insights from Go.
And so the power of like proprietary data
storytelling is something that I stress to
any content marketer that I come across.
And that was a big selling point for me
at coming to Parafin was just knowing, oh
my gosh, I have all this data around SMB
growth and things that I can look into.
So I'm very excited to flex that muscle
and start with the data storytelling
side of things in the future.
Araminta Robertson: Yeah.
Yeah.
That's great.
So let's talk a bit about a EO strategies.
So it sounds like this is a
key focus right now for you.
How are you thinking about LLMs a EO?
How are you trying to get the
content or how are you influencing
Gabrielle Bier: Yeah,
Araminta Robertson: how are
you using content for that?
Gabrielle Bier: it's funny how, the
checklist that you would implement for
an SEO blog is very similar to what
you would implement with an a EO blog.
So there it's more so shaping when I'm
writing something I wanna think about,
like, if someone were to ask a question in
Claude or touch PT or perplexity, like, am
I answering it in a way that is credible
and something that they can take to their
teams when they're making a decision?
And so, I look a lot at the prompts
within, I use profound the tooling there.
And so then the prompts that it identifies
within a certain topic are kind of
how I shape the outline of an article.
it's something that has become
ingrained heavily into my day to day
and even, thinking about, the blogs
that we are create or the written
content that we're creating with
external teams outside of marketing.
Like, how can I can take that and
then also replug that into this kind
of a EO strategy that we're building.
But yeah, like I said I use it for,
determining which topic we should
address when we should address it.
Looking at what our competitors
are saying about it and where their
ranking in terms of citations or just,
contributing to the overall conversation.
And then from there, building
out the outline around the
prompts that we want to answer.
it's been fascinating to try and
like, think about this is like a, a
driving strategy, but it's kind of
like we have to, there's no other way.
And thankfully because of the overlap
with how things rank from an SEO
standpoint, like it, it is, you're kind
of killing two birds with one stone
Araminta Robertson: Yeah,
totally.
You said you call it an AO blog, so what
is the difference between an SEO and an
AO blog?
Like how do you think
Gabrielle Bier: at this point
there is so much similarities.
I think it is just those prompts
that we're looking at and
using as our H two text almost.
And I think from an SEO standpoint,
like we make sure the keyword is in
it, but then from an a EO standpoint,
we're making sure it's phrased in a way
Araminta Robertson: The
yeah.
Cool.
Very interesting.
This sounds very similar
to our strategy as well.
We call
it GPT articles.
yeah, so what we do is, it sounds like
similar to what you do, which is decide
on the prompts beforehand we start with
bottom of the funnel prompts specifically.
So prompts where they're actively looking
for solution, because then that means that
your name's actually gonna turn up, right.
If you just look up something like what is
embedded capital, for example, it's just
gonna have the answer, but there's not
gonna, they're not gonna mention parafin.
Right.
So doesn't make sense to target.
So we start with the bottom of funnel
articles and then, sorry prompts.
And then for each prompt
we create a separate piece.
And that's how we've been doing it.
So it
sounds like it's quite similar to yours.
Is that
how you do it?
Gabrielle Bier: a hundred percent.
Yeah.
Araminta Robertson: that's crazy.
it.
Gabrielle Bier: Yeah.
And it's all that's funny 'cause I
wasn't like necessarily following
a process I had heard of before.
It's just
Araminta Robertson: I mean, this
is our we made it up as well.
So this is, interestingly enough,
I haven't met many people who
follow this process and I was
like, and it works so well as well.
So I've been quite confused.
I feel like a lot of people are focused
on Reddit, pr, which is good as well.
I'm not saying you shouldn't, but with
our tests, this strategy has been the
one that has worked the best, actually
creating your own content,
targeting those specific
prompts,
Gabrielle Bier: percent.
when I was at mid desk too, that was
a quick win I had, there was just
creating content around KYB know
your business and a tonne of it.
And then I remember like our CTO pinging
me and being like, Hey, we're ranked,
or we're showing up as a society source.
And it was just like, oh,
I'm just, creating content
to like build out this side
Araminta Robertson: Yeah.
Gabrielle Bier: So,
Araminta Robertson: That's great.
Yeah.
It's funny because when AI overviews
and LLMs came out, everyone was
like, oh my God, content is dead.
No one needs it anymore.
And actually it's just become
more important because it's the
main way to appear on L lms.
So it's quite funny how, yeah, just
create a lot of content around a
topic and then you'll start appearing.
how have the results been for you?
Has it worked quite well?
Gabrielle Bier: Yeah, I mean, like
for those kind of keywords where
there are topics where there aren't
a tonne of content to begin with,
like embedded capital that has
just been a very fast win for us.
And I think it's kind of, I don't know if
it works this way, but it's gotten like
the LLMs to pay attention to, you know,
what we're seeing, what we're producing.
And am excited to see how our embedded
lending piece performs because it
has those kind of real world examples
and so it's just a different take
on explaining that type of content.
So yeah, we'll see how it
Araminta Robertson: Yeah.
Nice.
Really cool.
So I do have to ask about ai.
Of course.
It's everyone's going on about it,
especially for content and marketing.
What are some ways that you've been
implementing it into your workflow?
It sounds like you're still, you really
care a lot about quality, which is great.
Maybe experts are using it to
help put their thoughts on paper.
What are some other ways
you've found that it can really
help with content production?
Gabrielle Bier: Yeah.
I mean, I'm gonna share something
that hasn't been implemented yet, but
something that I've been experimenting
with just to see what we could do with it.
But I mentioned, we have a tonne
of data around small businesses.
We wanna share that in a very careful way.
And our Claude can connects to Databricks.
So that's where all of our
proprietary data is housed.
So I could prompt Claude with, use
Databricks to uncover insights on how,
the impact or the state of small business
growth in the last year based on what
you've seen in Parafin and our platform.
And it can extract like
actual insights from that end.
I've also, well now Claude has cloud
design, but like before that we have
Figma make at our company as well.
And so like, I'll be like, create
a microsite with this JSON file of
all this data that we have here at
Parafin, and, create a microsite that
explains the state of small business
growth over the last couple of years.
And, how they're leveraging embedded
capital to grow their businesses.
that's just like experimental
of just plugging things together
and seeing what we could do.
But in terms of shipping items like
that, it would be like working closely
with our data science team to make
sure all of those, that all of those
insights are accurate and then building
it on our website and there's a lot
of like backend work that goes into
actually shipping something like that.
But I think the takeaway is that AI
has allowed me to prototype really
quickly and come up with ideas really
quickly that I could present as like
bigger picture campaigns to, leadership.
And it doesn't just live
like rent free in my head.
It's just like something I
can, like produce and, and
visualise and have on paper.
But that, and then also, I think
writing has become a much quicker kind
of task too, especially with tooling
that connects to where all of your
important information lives, like Google
Drive and notion and just like being
able to extract things from there.
So if I'm writing something and I'm
missing an insight, I can be like,
Hey, is there anything in Slack that
talks about, how a merchant received,
or a merchant took out 12 advances or
something like that, and it can pull
that actual like concrete example.
And point me to something where
I can cite it as I'm writing.
Araminta Robertson: Yeah.
That's amazing.
I think that's such a great use
case to get better insights.
So I imagine we're gonna, we are to
expect quite a few reports and stuff
Gabrielle Bier: I hope so.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We're still like ironing out like
the process there, but that's
definitely the plan for sure.
Araminta Robertson: Yeah.
Nice.
Really cool.
Amazing.
Well, well thank you so much Gabriela.
So I have one last question
for you, which is what piece
of content are you proudest of?
And it can be multiple, but at Parafin,
what are you proudest of creating?
Gabrielle Bier: I mean, I think just
having this, like we just talked
about this fast, quick win with like
choosing a topic, writing high quality
content around it, and then seeing it
show up that what is embedded capital
piece and why platforms need it now.
Just a simple definitive guide, but
really well researched and had a committee
that was kind of like overseeing the
production of it and signing off on it.
I think just shipping that as my first
article and then already like being
on page one of Google remember like
celebrating that like internally on
Slack and yeah, I think more of that
is to come and I'm excited for that.
And then, I would love to chat in a
year when we have some more diversified
content in place and talk about those.
But I think just having a quick
win right off the bat was awesome.
Araminta Robertson: Yeah, I think there's
really an opportunity there because I
think first of all, having a topic where
there's not much that's been talked
about, but also the space that you're in.
I've seen content work super well in
this space where it's like complex
multi month, year sales cycle where,
you're talking multiple people, right?
In a sense like there's a whole
board of or committee of people, and
this is where content really shines.
So I'm excited to see what you do
at Parafin and you'll keep my eyes
out for like reports and unique
insights on the space because I think
that's Yeah, exactly.
And yeah, visuals actually we haven't
talked about that, but maybe we could
talk about it when we catch up again in a
year.
And you can tell me about that.
Yeah, for sure.
But yeah, thank you so much,
Gabrielle, for jumping on.
This has been really insightful and
thanks for going into so much detail
and yeah, hopefully we can catch up
and you can tell us . How's it going?
Later on.
Gabrielle Bier: Yeah.
Thank you so much for having me.
I am super excited to be here and
yeah, this was a great, great combo.
outro: Thanks for listening.
You can find show notes and
information about guests@www.mint
copywriting studios.com/podcast.
And finally, huge thanks to orama
TV for producing this podcast.
Thanks for listening, and
see you at the next episode.