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Director of Accenture's FinTech Innovation Lab Asia-Pacific reveals the top tips to joining this exclusive accelerator that has helped raise $6.6 billion for alumni companies worldwide. Applications close 12 May!
Episode summary
Only 10 spots from 200+ applications. Zero cost, equity-free. Direct access to HSBC, JP Morgan, and UBS.
In this episode, Hui Jackson shares her journey from founder (e-commerce startup Souk) to running one of Asia's most prestigious fintech accelerators. She reveals the three critical traits that predict startup success: resilience, clear vision, and ability to pivot.
Learn exactly what it takes to get accepted, how the 12-week programme works, and why multiple alumni successfully pivoted from B2C to B2B after working directly with tier-1 financial institutions.
Key takeaways
- Success traits: Resilience, clear vision, and willingness to pivot
- Programme structure: 3 months, 3 stages, 3 types of mentors
- Selection tips: Clearly articulate value proposition, show POC with FS clients, demonstrate scaling plan
- Interview day: Expect 20-30 judges, come prepared, attend in person if possible
- Current trends: AI, web3, ESG, regulatory tech, and gaps in insurtech
Notable quotes
"If you're coming in with the willingness to learn, you can open up a lot of opportunities. If you're coming in with the aim to sell, then you will close off great sharing opportunities."
"The ability to pivot is very important. Some founders put blinkers on, trying to focus on improving their products, but not looking around what's happening."
"We literally got direct access to the world's top tier financial institutions meeting their senior partners, senior stakeholders."
Resources mentioned
- FinTech Innovation Lab Asia-Pacific: https://uns.sb/FILAP
- Application deadline: 12 May 2025
- Programme details: Free, equity-free, 12-week accelerator
- Global reach: Alumni from 39 countries, nearly 400 companies
About the guest
Hui Jackson is Director of the FinTech Innovation Lab Asia-Pacific at Accenture. A former founder herself, she brings unique perspective from both sides of the startup ecosystem. The Lab has been running for 12 years and is considered the anchor accelerator in Hong Kong.
Connect with us
- Website: unsensible.com/podcast
- Subscribe for weekly episodes featuring unrelenting founders changing the world
Creators and Guests
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Jonathan Nguyen: What separates successful fintech founders from the rest?
Jonathan Nguyen: Today, Hui Jackson, Director of the Fintech Innovation Lab Asia-Pacific at Accenture,
Jonathan Nguyen: talks about the three critical traits that predict startup success.
Hui Jackson: Resilience, a clear vision, and ability to pivot.
Jonathan Nguyen: With only 10 spots available from over 200 applications,
Jonathan Nguyen: we asked Huey how to get into the accelerator,
Jonathan Nguyen: that has helped raise $6.6 billion in funding
Jonathan Nguyen: and gives founders direct access to financial giants
Jonathan Nguyen: like HSBC, JP Morgan, and UBS.
Jonathan Nguyen: Applications close 12th of May.
Jonathan Nguyen: Discover how this completely free accelerator
Jonathan Nguyen: has helped almost 400 alumni companies
Jonathan Nguyen: on their journey to change the world.
Jonathan Nguyen: And we're back for another episode of the Unsensible Podcast,
Jonathan Nguyen: where we talk to the unrelenting founders.
Jonathan Nguyen: who are undertaking to change the world.
Jonathan Nguyen: And today we have a very special guest who is not a founder,
Jonathan Nguyen: but director of Accenture's FinTech Innovation Lab for Asia Pacific,
Jonathan Nguyen: the unrivaled Hui Jackson.
Jonathan Nguyen: And just for the record, Hui, how do we pronounce your name?
Hui Jackson: Hi, Jonathan. Thanks very much for having me here.
Hui Jackson: My name is Hui, Hui Jackson.
Hui Jackson: It's
Hui Jackson: a Mandarin pronunciation.
Hui Jackson: In Chinese, it means wisdom.
Jonathan Nguyen: There's a Vietnamese version, H-U-Y, Huy,
Jonathan Nguyen: which is pronounced with a high flat, mid flat tone.
Jonathan Nguyen: So it
Jonathan Nguyen: means
Jonathan Nguyen: something
Jonathan Nguyen: very similar.
Jonathan Nguyen: But anyway, this is not a linguistics class.
Jonathan Nguyen: We're here to talk about you and your program.
Jonathan Nguyen: So this is your first time on the podcast, is that correct?
Hui Jackson: Yes.
Hui Jackson: So thanks very much for having me and giving us the opportunities to talk about the FinTech Innovation Lab to the founders.
Jonathan Nguyen: The first time on the podcast, the rule is that you must pitch.
Jonathan Nguyen: Are you ready, Hui?
Jonathan Nguyen: This is a very different side of the table for you to be on from your usual position.
Hui Jackson: Absolutely.
Hui Jackson: I usually am on the other side of the table,
Hui Jackson: hearing the founders pitching to us.
Jonathan Nguyen: Here we go. I'm going to give you 30 seconds.
Jonathan Nguyen: Let's see if you can keep within that timeframe.
Hui Jackson: Thanks.
Hui Jackson: The FinTech Innovation Lab Asia-Pacific is an annual accelerator program run by Accenture
Hui Jackson: in collaboration with Hong Kong CyberPort and the world's top financial institutions (FI's).
Hui Jackson: It's free to join and equity-free. It's designed to help FinTech startups to grow and succeed
Hui Jackson: You will get top tier mentorship, investor access, and collaborate with financial giants like HSBC, JP Morgan, UBS, to name a few.
Hui Jackson: We are accepting applications now.
Hui Jackson: Don't miss out if you are a growth stage fintech founders ready to scale.
Hui Jackson: Apply by May 12th to bring your business to the next level.
Jonathan Nguyen: A little bit
Jonathan Nguyen: over 30 seconds, but you've got all the
Jonathan Nguyen: details in.
Hui Jackson: Yes, we have some very important details that I missed.
Jonathan Nguyen: That's okay.
Jonathan Nguyen: We've got lots of time.
Jonathan Nguyen: So here we go.
Jonathan Nguyen: While I was doing research for this episode, I discovered a little fact about you.
Jonathan Nguyen: And I noticed that before you joined Accenture, you were actually a founder yourself and you
Jonathan Nguyen: had an e-commerce business call.
Jonathan Nguyen: called Souk.
Jonathan Nguyen: What can you tell us about that?
Hui Jackson: - Yeah, sure.
Hui Jackson: So Souk is a online marketplace
Hui Jackson: that we sell artisan goods from female artisans
Hui Jackson: from around the world.
Hui Jackson: That shaped my understanding and shaped my way
Hui Jackson: of doing things.
Hui Jackson: And now in Accenture, I am in the other side
Hui Jackson: and I was telling the startups that
Hui Jackson: I have done that and understand what you've been through and that's why I am so lucky
Hui Jackson: in this position to try to mobilise different resources and networks to help you because
Hui Jackson: that's what I didn't have done and so I want you guys
Hui Jackson: to have it now. So that's, this is a great chapter for me.
Jonathan Nguyen: Have you seen any parallels in what the founders are saying to you today in your role with your direct experience?
Hui Jackson: like scaling the operations, securing the fundings,
Hui Jackson: adopting to market change and also working, building a team.
Hui Jackson: I think that's the parallels that I can relate to.
Jonathan Nguyen: So you've been at Accenture now for I think six years.
Jonathan Nguyen: Have you noticed any attributes that enhance success
Jonathan Nguyen: after they graduate from the program?
Hui Jackson: So from my experience, the top three attributes that increases startups
Hui Jackson: chance of success are resilience, a clear vision, and ability to pivot when necessary.
Hui Jackson: You will see there's ups and downs. There's a COVID and there's a VC winter and now there is all this
Hui Jackson: trade war, you do need that resilience to deal with that.
Hui Jackson: But also a clear vision that to say you can solve some of the pain points, you have values.
Hui Jackson: And lastly but not least is that the ability to pivot.
Hui Jackson: when you talk to more
Hui Jackson: clients and you see that actually if I do this
Hui Jackson: That I might get to a better directions and I see those successful startups
Hui Jackson: They actually told me that it's actually through this lab that we
Hui Jackson: Realize that instead of doing B2C we should pivot to B2B
Hui Jackson: they are now
Hui Jackson: operating globally, serving tier one
Hui Jackson: financial institutions, partners.
Hui Jackson: So I'm really happy for them.
Hui Jackson: I think it's that willingness to pivot.
Hui Jackson: Some founders just say, my product is brilliant.
Hui Jackson: My product is great.
Hui Jackson: They're just trying to put a blinkers on,
Hui Jackson: just trying to focus on improving their products,
Hui Jackson: but not looking around what's happening,
Hui Jackson: what the market needs or what can be better.
Hui Jackson: to serve the customer need. Some of them didn't last. So I see that the ability, the willingness
Hui Jackson: to pivot is very important.
Jonathan Nguyen: Extinction is the failure to adapt and evolve, right? So I think
Jonathan Nguyen: it's almost like a law of nature that
Jonathan Nguyen: you have to be
Jonathan Nguyen: flexible enough and have your eyes open enough
Jonathan Nguyen: to say, okay, actually, this isn't, this isn't working or,
Jonathan Nguyen: or the market's not asking for this
Jonathan Nguyen: and being able to move on.
Hui Jackson: - Yeah, or what I did was really great,
Hui Jackson: but then the market is asking for something
Hui Jackson: a little bit different, can I tweak a little bit
Hui Jackson: and then to meet that need?
Jonathan Nguyen: Yeah, because I guess the startups in your program, they're all scale-ups.
Jonathan Nguyen: So there is a need and almost a requirement by their investors to have massive growth.
Jonathan Nguyen: You know, you may be able to have a very good SaaS business.
Jonathan Nguyen: If you don't have investors, you bootstrap and you can have very steady growth.
Jonathan Nguyen: But, you know, the guys you're working with, the demands on them are like great growth in a very short period of time, right?
Hui Jackson: Yeah.
Hui Jackson: Yes, so most of them, they do have investors, they are scaled up.
Hui Jackson: So there is certain requirements for them to scale.
Hui Jackson: But I think a lot of them is that entrepreneurial drive in them like they want it to do well.
Jonathan Nguyen: And the program itself, I think you mentioned it's 12 weeks, right?
Hui Jackson: Yes, that's right.
Jonathan Nguyen: So you get to know them quite well.
Jonathan Nguyen: How is the program structured?
Jonathan Nguyen: So it's a big time commitment.
Jonathan Nguyen: How do you guys structure the 12 weeks together?
Hui Jackson: This is a three-month program. You come in, the first week will be a very intensive back-to-school week.
Hui Jackson: So we provide a number of workshops for our startup founders, including acceleration strategy, presentation skills,
Hui Jackson: what to expect selling to large financial institutions partners,
Hui Jackson: investor term sheet negotiations, ESOP, which is very popular content that the
Hui Jackson: startup founders wanted to know. So we provide all this to help to prepare them
Hui Jackson: to the next phase. The next phase is one-on-one FI matching and mentoring. So
Hui Jackson: we will base on the interest from the FIs and the startups
Hui Jackson: technology areas and we pair them together so they will have one-on-one
Hui Jackson: mentorings. The FIs will show them what is the key stakeholders within their
Hui Jackson: organisations. They will understand more how these organisations work and
Hui Jackson: and what's their pain points, how can my solutions help them solve the problems,
Hui Jackson: or if there's new things that we can co-develop.
Hui Jackson: So this is a really unique stage of this program, is that you really literally got the direct access
Hui Jackson: to the world's top tier financial institutions
Hui Jackson: and meeting their senior partners, senior stakeholders.
Hui Jackson: So this is a really important part.
Hui Jackson: And the third stage will be preparing for the demo day.
Hui Jackson: The demo day is a grand finale of this program.
Hui Jackson: We, all the previous stage is to helping them
Hui Jackson: to present them in front of a large stage,
Hui Jackson: in front of all these investors, ecosystem partners,
Hui Jackson: government officials, regulators,
Hui Jackson: and financial services industry,
Hui Jackson: some senior executives are all there.
Hui Jackson: So this is a good opportunity for them to present
Hui Jackson: what they have learned and what's their plan forward.
Hui Jackson: So that is how it's structured into these three stages.
Hui Jackson: And another thing is that I want to point out is that during the program, you will have three types of mentors to help you.
Hui Jackson: So we will have Accenture mentor to give you insights from the Accenture side of business.
Hui Jackson: and you will have FI mentors.
Hui Jackson: So like I said earlier in the stage two,
Hui Jackson: you were gonna meet the FI's senior executives.
Hui Jackson: So they will give you some insights and guidance.
Hui Jackson: One of my favorite example is that we were able to hosting
Hui Jackson: a closed door meetings with one of the largest bank
Hui Jackson: with all their senior stakeholders there
Hui Jackson: different departments had coming together to listen to our startups presentation, their pitch,
Hui Jackson: and also giving them suggestions that have you thought about that, have you thought about this,
Hui Jackson: and maybe you need to consider...
Hui Jackson: So it's a really, really great opportunity for the startup to learn directly
Hui Jackson: from the target market.
Hui Jackson: And the third force is the independent mentors.
Hui Jackson: People like yourself, Jonathan,
Hui Jackson: and coming from all different backgrounds independently,
Hui Jackson: but with a wealth of experience
Hui Jackson: to help the startups from different perspectives.
Hui Jackson: So we have Jonathan coming to talk about the marketing strategies.
Hui Jackson: I really loved about your workshops
Hui Jackson: because you're coming from agencies background
Hui Jackson: and you also work in one of the largest banks.
Hui Jackson: So you got this
Hui Jackson: insider and outsider's perspective to teach the startups
Hui Jackson: perfectly, perfectly, perfectly.
Hui Jackson: We also have partners from law firms
Hui Jackson: to talk about the legal aspects.
Hui Jackson: And we also have communication strategists
Hui Jackson: We also have senior executives from successful startups who made it.
Hui Jackson: They came back to just share their experience, how they made it, and their growth, their teething challenges.
Hui Jackson: So it's a really nice way to learn different things.
Hui Jackson: We also from VC talk about do and don'ts and the landscapes.
Hui Jackson: We are really designed to help them grow and help them to succeed.
Jonathan Nguyen: That's
Jonathan Nguyen: what Ryan said as well.
Jonathan Nguyen: He said basically the FI's gave him direct feedback about changes to his product
Jonathan Nguyen: and that's
Jonathan Nguyen: what
Jonathan Nguyen: unlocked everything for him.
Jonathan Nguyen: He
Jonathan Nguyen: didn't realise that certain aspects of his product was blocking the pipeline.
Hui Jackson: I always tell our startups, if you're coming in with the willingness to learn, you can open up a lot of opportunities.
Hui Jackson: If you're coming in with the aim to sell, then you will close off a great sharing opportunities.
Hui Jackson: I think the chance is to using this platform to learn the industry, to learn those FIs as much as you can.
Hui Jackson: And that can use to the next stage into your pipeline development, into your business development.
Jonathan Nguyen: Like, I mean, you don't really get that opportunity to get that direct feedback.
Hui Jackson: Yeah, exactly.
Jonathan Nguyen: Anywhere else, right? It's
Jonathan Nguyen: actually quite
Jonathan Nguyen: a strong value proposition.
Jonathan Nguyen: This is an extremely popular accelerator.
Jonathan Nguyen: I've heard something like 200 start-ups apply and 10 make it through.
Jonathan Nguyen: Is that about right?
Hui Jackson: Yeah, it sounds about right.
Hui Jackson: And our New York is the most popular one.
Hui Jackson: I think they have over 300 applications last year and only less than 10 made it.
Jonathan Nguyen: Do you think that seeing that many startups a year has given you a kind of intuition?
Jonathan Nguyen: Was there any startup that walked in the door where you've gone, I think these guys are going to do really well?
Hui Jackson: In the interview day...
Hui Jackson: Yes and no.
Hui Jackson: So I can give you two examples.
Hui Jackson: One example is a Beijing start-ups.
Hui Jackson: When they walk into the interview room, they were like,
Hui Jackson: "The language is a problem."
Hui Jackson: You were like, "What are they doing?"
Hui Jackson: But after the lab, they now they're getting really, really successful.
Hui Jackson: The other good example is that when they're walking in the room,
Hui Jackson: you're like, right, they're going to do well because of the founder,
Hui Jackson: because his conviction, the passion that you can see from him,
Hui Jackson: and he's very articulate about his vision, about his product.
Hui Jackson: And you can see the room immediately like,
Hui Jackson: "Oh, they have instant buy-in from that."
Hui Jackson: So I don't see this like suddenly you walk into a room,
Hui Jackson: you know that they will succeed.
Hui Jackson: But a lot of time is that when you
Hui Jackson: when you are with them for three months journey,
Hui Jackson: you gradually, I gradually see some star qualities coming up.
Hui Jackson: The star qualities are those founders,
Hui Jackson: clear vision, the passion,
Hui Jackson: and they really like a sponge
Hui Jackson: that they really wanted to learn.
Hui Jackson: And they've invested in building the relationship
Hui Jackson: through the network.
Hui Jackson: And I see those founders are more likely to succeed.
Hui Jackson: They have this quality that
Hui Jackson: that make people around them wanting to help them.
Hui Jackson: You just see that drive in them, very sincere.
Hui Jackson: And they just, yeah, I love what I do
Hui Jackson: because I am very privileged to be in this position to...
Hui Jackson: support these amazing founders. It's just a really rewarding position for me.
Jonathan Nguyen: I think it's a very unique position inside a consulting firm, right? Not many consulting
Jonathan Nguyen: firms have these accelerators that spend so much time and effort on it.
Hui Jackson: Yeah, I was told that we are the anchor accelerator in Hong Kong.
Hui Jackson: We're here for 12 years now and we seem we're the only one lasting that long.
Hui Jackson: So we celebrated our 10th anniversary two years ago and we were looking forward to another
Hui Jackson: 10 years.
Jonathan Nguyen: It's hard to get in.
Jonathan Nguyen: 10 out of 200, what can a founder do to increase their chances of getting in?
Hui Jackson: Yes, it's a very competitive program.
Hui Jackson: We have a very rigorous selection process and we have a set of criteria which we listed on our website.
Hui Jackson: So I recommend those applicants to take a look at what we're looking for.
Hui Jackson: So besides that, if you can clearly articulate your value proposition, and you can tell us what's your unique selling point, your moat that you build, at least a POC with FS clients, I think that gives you a very good chance to...
Hui Jackson: stand out. If you can show that you've got a really good pipeline, a good scaling plan,
Hui Jackson: that could also set you a very good light. And once you go through the scoring process,
Hui Jackson: we will shortlist about 20 to 25 applicants to come in for an interview. And during the
Hui Jackson: you have a very short time to present yourself.
Hui Jackson: Be very clear what your propositions are,
Hui Jackson: what's the value to the FIs,
Hui Jackson: what's the use case, and what's the market potential.
Hui Jackson: If you can provide those things,
Hui Jackson: I think you can get a good chance to go to the next stage.
Jonathan Nguyen: And so who's in that interview? Is that Accenture people? Is that you? Is that like FIs from
Jonathan Nguyen: the industry? What can they expect?
Hui Jackson: We will have a judge panel includes Accenture subject matter experts, also from the FIs
Hui Jackson: subject matter experts. So it's a combination. So we wanted to make sure that it's
Hui Jackson: It's all a very well thought out decision
Hui Jackson: that it can address both the need from the FIs
Hui Jackson: as well as Accenture.
Jonathan Nguyen: - Well, we're looking for secret tips for our listeners.
Jonathan Nguyen: So we'll see.
Hui Jackson: - I think I gave a really good tips earlier,
Hui Jackson: but yeah, it's not just up to me
Hui Jackson: 'cause we have a number of judges.
Hui Jackson: I think you can expect
Hui Jackson: about 20 judges in the room during the interview day,
Hui Jackson: 20 to
Hui Jackson: 30 judges.
Hui Jackson: Yes.
Jonathan Nguyen: So you better want to be well rehearsed and well practiced.
Jonathan Nguyen: You definitely
Jonathan Nguyen: don't want to just
Jonathan Nguyen: walk in there
Jonathan Nguyen: and like think you can wing it, right?
Hui Jackson: Yeah, you can't wing it. We allow some virtual dial-in for the interview day because the nature of the applicants coming from all over the world. So sometimes they call in.
Hui Jackson: Yeah, just get your...
Hui Jackson: get your tech sorted before you do your presentation.
Hui Jackson: Because we have some examples in the past that they call in remotely and then there's
Hui Jackson: a tech issues and then time's up, then you just lost a chance to present yourself properly.
Hui Jackson: which is a shame.
Hui Jackson: So we always suggest that coming in in person,
Hui Jackson: if you made it to the interview day,
Hui Jackson: coming in in person,
Hui Jackson: that kind of in-person connections is just priceless.
Jonathan Nguyen: Yeah.
Jonathan Nguyen: So I want to accentuate this point.
Jonathan Nguyen: You guys are based in Hong Kong.
Jonathan Nguyen: You're based in Hong Kong,
Jonathan Nguyen: but this is not a Hong Kong-only thing, right?
Jonathan Nguyen: You
Jonathan Nguyen: want applicants from all over the world.
Jonathan Nguyen: Is that right?
Hui Jackson: Yes. So there's two aspects of it.
Hui Jackson: So first, FinTech Innovation Lab is a global initiative run by Accenture.
Hui Jackson: So we have New York Lab, London Lab and the APAC Lab that's based in Hong Kong.
Hui Jackson: But when you apply for the APAC Lab, you are expected to come to Hong Kong at some point in person
Hui Jackson: because a lot of our mentors, our FIs are based in Hong Kong.
Hui Jackson: Another aspect is that we are not just accepting Hong Kong startup founders.
Hui Jackson: We are accepting startups from all over the world.
Hui Jackson: So over the years, we actually have about 39 countries of origins for the applications.
Hui Jackson: A lot of our alumni is actually from US, UK, France, Israel, Australia, Singapore, we have India and Korea, mainland China as well.
Hui Jackson: So you can see it's a very international in terms of the makeup of our startups.
Jonathan Nguyen: Well, I have one last question for you. So there
Jonathan Nguyen: are
Jonathan Nguyen: no doubt trends each year about the types of startups that apply. So last two years, probably AI, AI, AI. What are you seeing this year so far?
Hui Jackson: Still very much AI, AI, AI, a lot of them using AI technology to solve various business problems.
Hui Jackson: We also see some Web3 companies coming in to try to
Hui Jackson: help to bring the traditional banks into the blockchain, into this Web3 technology.
Hui Jackson: Also see some ESG companies, that's what I see so far.
Hui Jackson: We also have some risk management, compliance management kind of startups applying this year.
Hui Jackson: We really wanted to open up the net wider, so we're also looking for cybersecurity,
Hui Jackson: we're looking for embedded finance, we're also looking for operational efficiency.
Hui Jackson: So to the startup founders out there, if you fit in any one of those descriptions, please apply for this program by 12th of May.
Jonathan Nguyen: So are there any, I know I told you this was going to be the last question, but I have a follow-on question.
Hui Jackson: That's okay.
Jonathan Nguyen: Is
Jonathan Nguyen: there
Jonathan Nguyen: any gaps in
Jonathan Nguyen: the future?
Hui Jackson: In the past, we always see that there's a small gap in the insure tech, mainly because there's not many insure techs that's applying for this program.
Hui Jackson: We always wanted to see more insure tech.
Hui Jackson: The reg tech, we always see a lot, so that's good.
Hui Jackson: Reg tech is very important for us, compliance, risk management, these are good.
Hui Jackson: We were trying to find some startups in the quantum space, but I think it's going to be really rare to see any
Hui Jackson: quantum startups that would be there to ready to join this program.
Hui Jackson: But yeah, we are yet to see.
Hui Jackson: We still have some time to accept applications.
Hui Jackson: So if you guys are in that area, please do let us know.
Hui Jackson: Agentic AI is something that is very hot topic right now.
Hui Jackson: I see a lot of our clients are looking for
Hui Jackson: these kind of technologies, applications.
Hui Jackson: So, and I see a few Agentic AI's applications
Hui Jackson: coming in as well, so.
Hui Jackson: We'll see.
Jonathan Nguyen: Well, thank you very much for your time.
Jonathan Nguyen: And I will
Jonathan Nguyen: just do a
Jonathan Nguyen: quick recap here.
Jonathan Nguyen: So applications closed 12th of May.
Jonathan Nguyen: We've got a short link available for those listening via audio.
Jonathan Nguyen: It's UNS
Jonathan Nguyen: .SB/FILAP. We'll also put it in the show notes. There's a QR code on the screen
Jonathan Nguyen: for anyone who is tuning in via YouTube. So thank you very much to Hui for joining this podcast.
Jonathan Nguyen: If you found this valuable, please do give this video a like.
Jonathan Nguyen: And if you're listening on your podcast platform, please do give us a five-star rating.
Jonathan Nguyen: It really helps us grow and scale the podcast and get more people like Hui on the show.
Jonathan Nguyen: And on that note, thank you and we shall be seeing you again in the next one.