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Small group leaders, pastors, and more discussing strategies for growth and community in church groups. The Small Group Network is an international ministry that equips churches to engage in deeper discipleship and community.
James Browning: Hello, and
welcome to F G squared.
Steve Gladen the global pastor of small
groups from Saddleback church polls
from his over 25 years of experience.
To encourage and equip listeners like
you to lead small group ministry.
So let's listen and learn together.
Derek Olson: We are over halfway
and so Steve, how you doing?
Are you ready to take the last leg of
these last nine plus questions we got?
Steve Gladen: uh, if we're at the,
if we've expired our time, if you
want to nail out a couple more
questions, we can go either way.
Derek Olson: Okay, well I've got about
nine more for you and, um, I need you
to just take a deep breath, channel your
Ohio State fighting spirit, and answer
these with the best of your ability.
Okay, so here we go.
Here's a good question.
Number 13.
How do we get previously existing groups
to become official small groups so we
can include them on our website and app?
And I love this comment
they have afterward.
It says they are nomads and we
love to start walking beside them.
Steve Gladen: Well, if it helps you
feel encouragement, we have the same
nomads that are floating around.
I love that.
I think one of the things I would
say is, um, is that whenever you do a
church wide campaign or whenever you
do a small group launch or a push and
you're handing out something, it may
not be curriculum because a lot of
our curriculum now is streaming and
the study guides are that way too.
But if you're handing out anything
that is a complimentary piece
to to the curriculum that you're
pushing, we're doing that right now.
Andy is doing one on six felt needs
that people have, and it's the
premise is coming out of Psalm 23.
And everything is digital.
But what we did is we included a small
book that he's using a classic book on
Psalm 23 on the shepherd that we could
pick up for a buck and a half a book.
But we'd say, Hey, you can go out
and when you're existing groups, you
can pick up these books for free, uh,
that you can lead as a complimentary
piece and you can, um, Or if you're a
new group, you can pick them up too.
And then we'll give you
instructions on how to get to the,
uh, the, the digital resources.
And what we found out is because Annie
kind of gave the relevant felt needs
that this cricking would hit, but
the book created FOMO and the fear of
missing out, like, Hey, I want that too.
And whenever you do that with every
small group push that you do, what
happens is Some of these groups
that are off the radar come on the
radar because they want the thing.
And the great thing is, is if you have
your coaches there or your community
leaders there so that they can, uh, meet
the people, two great things happen.
One is you have that personal
connection, uh, with a group that
you didn't know because they'll
say they're not a new group.
They're an existing group.
And you go, great, you know, we
don't have you on our system, but
that we just want to get to know you
when that person gets to know them.
Not only do they get a relational
connection right away, but
sociologists will tell you
it's harder for them to ignore.
text or your DMs or your phone calls,
uh, any way you engage with them, that
is the medium they'd like to be engaged
with, that is harder for them to let it
go to voicemail or not return the text.
Then to engage with it because there's
a sociological bonding that happens
because they connected a name with a face.
So I would just encourage you whenever
you do group launches, have something
that existing groups need to compliment
whatever you're going to study.
If everything's streaming, if you're
handing out, uh, if you're still
handing out DVDs, we've got an issue.
Uh, but if you're still handing
out maybe printed curriculum or a
study guide to whatever that is.
It's a great way to get those groups on
the radar and you'll get to make them no
longer nomads, but part of your community.
Derek Olson: Really good.
I was, I want to read, read the
question again, cause I kind of
have a critical thought on it.
Again, their question was how do we
get previously existing groups to
become official small groups so we can
include them on our website and app?
And then they said, they are nomads and
we love to start walking beside them.
So awesome that you want
to walk beside them.
And I would say keep
that as the main point.
I think we can confuse it though.
And we also, Want to just have
more groups listed on our website.
And so we got to remember if this is
a group that's been around a while,
let's say it's a good group of friends.
They might want to be a closed group.
And so you got to ask yourself, do I
have closed groups and open groups?
Is that okay?
At Saddleback, we had both.
I loved it.
Some, some people want to add
new people to their groups.
Some people have such a unity that
couldn't imagine adding more people.
And so they, to put them on the
website could be a bad thing.
And so you got to think about, is
this a closed group or a open group?
And if it's a closed group, that's okay.
Instead of trying to get them to add
more people or take strangers in,
just focus on starting new groups.
Is that right?
Steve?
Yeah.
Steve Gladen: Yeah, you definitely
don't don't want a closed group that
is On your website because there's no
no worse customer service than someone
reaching out to that group and they go.
Oh, we're closed Uh, yes, you only want
your open groups up on your website
Uh, but you're bringing up a great
point too, is that you want to make
sure you're caring for the right groups
and you're doing the right strategy
with the right groups and all that.
So, um, yeah.
Derek Olson: Okay, moving on to number 14.
Uh, Steve, it says, What's one thing
you would do differently if you could
go back to your first day over groups?
This is a little bit like the
other question we had, but
anything you want to add there?
Steve Gladen: Yeah.
Uh, I guess a different angle
would be is, uh, be yourself.
God created you to be,
uh, the right person.
He, he drew you in.
Yeah.
You know that both Derek and I, we
have a common characteristic of,
you know, we're, we're drivers and.
We're planners in that the, the thing
I had loved in first Peter, uh, five,
uh, it talks about in the first number
of verses, he says, summer shepherds,
summer overseers, and summer elders.
And they're all talking about
the same person, but you tend
to have, uh, some degree of
shepherds that you'd love to care.
You have that caring, uh, piece in
you, the nurturing piece in you.
Uh, some are elders.
You have that development piece in you.
You like to take people and develop them
and take them to a place of themselves.
Some are overseers, and
those are the process people.
Those are the people that are a
little bit more strategic, and
they, they want to build processes
and bring people through them.
Each one of us have parts
of each one of those.
The thing you have to ask yourself
is, If you have a dominant piece in
there, like I'm more of an overseer,
I've got to make sure I have shepherds
around me and I got to make sure I have
elders around me, not in the sense of
the church eldership, but in the sense
of people that love to develop others.
And you got to be able to bring
people around you that are not like
you to compliment your ministry.
So when you're looking at that question,
you're saying, um, uh, I can't dare.
Can you read it for me one more
Derek Olson: Yeah, it's uh,
What's one thing you would do
differently if you could go back
to your first day over groups?
Steve Gladen: is being able to
say, I am who God made me to be.
And so just to get people around me
that can help me out because they
will help you be more strategic in
how you do ministry and speaking of
strategic is just making sure I would
also make sure I'm doing groups more
strategically in my student pastor days.
I did small groups, but in the
San Fernando Valley, I did them
literally more for survival, uh,
you know, uh, verse doing them
strategically to build disciples.
And so that would be the other thing.
Derek Olson: Well said.
Number 15.
This is a good one.
How do we create a
church culture of groups?
What's the top piece of advice
you'd give there, Steve?
Steve Gladen: Um,
okay.
How, how can we create a church culture?
for groups.
Um, I would say one thing is
it's, um, it's going to take time.
Uh, it's going to take consistency.
Basically, uh, once you know your
end in mind, what you're trying to
produce in your small groups, uh,
once you can be consistent with that,
I think day by day is you, you want
to focus on that particular thing.
One of the things that happens in some
churches is, is that you can, um, Uh,
the pastor can change his mind with
every conference he goes to every year.
And the more that you can decide,
what are we trying to produce?
What's our church?
What's our unique thumbprint that
we're trying to provide for our
community that our church can do.
And once you understand what a disciple
is working that you can be a lot more
consistent and the more you're, you're
reinforcing what the senior leader wants
to do with the church and that you're
producing the disciples that he wants to.
You're going to start to
build that culture for groups.
And so the whole phrase you're moving
from a group, a church with small
groups to a church of small groups.
where it's not that they're just one of
the menus of whatever you're doing in
your church, but that there are strategic
component for building people to be
the followers of Jesus that you want.
So I would say once you can answer
the question of what are you trying to
produce, then with your senior leadership,
you can start to work with them to let
groups be a complimentary piece that is
done inside your church that builds people
to be the followers that Jesus wants.
Derek Olson: So good.
And I'll just throw in a couple additives.
How do we get a, how do we create
a church culture of groups?
Like Steve's already said, get
your senior leader on board.
Steve Gladen: Mm.
Derek Olson: Make it easy
to start small groups.
Create easy on ramps for
people to join a small group.
Uh, you know, uh, that's why you want
to do at least one good campaign a year.
Steve Gladen: Mm hmm.
Derek Olson: And you can go back and
search this podcast for, uh, campaigns
to find out what we mean by that.
Um, and then just talk
about groups nonstop.
People should hear about your groups
and announcements on the weekend.
They should read about
groups on your website.
They should hear your pastor talking about
small groups and they should see signage.
Uh, sign up for a small
group here at the booth.
You know, just you don't let
them escape without seeing that
small groups is what we do.
And, and it's almost weird
if you're not in one.
Is
Steve Gladen: Yeah, no, I think it's good.
Just listen to that.
It's good stuff.
Derek Olson: Top tips for getting
long time groups to multiply.
Oh boy.
Steve Gladen: Okay.
So this is the infamous
question on multiplication.
And what we're talking
about here is two things.
One is rapid song multiplication.
That means this is what this question
is referring to is that if I have
one group, how do I, um, split,
multiply, divide, whatever it is
into two, two, between comes four,
four becomes eight, eight becomes 16.
If that works in your culture,
I would say without a heart.
it.
But probably what this question
is coming from is because
people aren't wanting to do it.
And I think one of the things I've
learned at Saddleback was my first
year, I thought, Oh, I arrived at
Mecca and everything will work because
I tried to do church rapid cell
multiplication, uh, at my previous
churches and I just never got it to work.
And what I discovered is in my first year
Saddleback, it didn't work there either.
And there are some groups, but a
very low percentage, about one or 2
percent of our groups in Saddleback
that will actually multiply.
And there's nothing wrong with
that if they are ready to do that.
But what I discovered was is that
when it failed for a year, we had, um,
some people do, uh, outside the, our
small group ministry, do focus groups
with those groups and saying, why?
Why when you know it's biblical,
why wouldn't you do it?
And this isn't what came out of,
this isn't the exact phrase that
came out of all the focus groups,
but it is a summarization of it.
And basically it was, it's because this
group has become closer than my blood.
And basically what they're
saying is, is that this group
is closer than my blood family.
And when you look at this and you start
to understand, and again, I've said
this all through, uh, this show, I don't
know where it got broke up, but, uh, all
through the show of being able to say,
uh, the Bible is built on a family system.
And what culture has done is they
have been trying to destroy the
family system of one man and one
woman creating a a nuclear family.
And when you look at statistics, In your
community, there are two primary and three
secondary issues that destroy the family.
One of them, probably the primary
ones that are the hardest, is divorce.
And if you've been divorced, I mean,
it's, I'm not Trying to shame you in that.
I'm just trying to say what, what culture
has done is made so divorce so acceptable
that it is, it destroys the family.
The other thing too, and you, you
know, it's important for you to know
in your County or, or where the city
you live in or the town you live in is
what's your divorce rate for, for us in
Orange County, the divorce rate is 72%.
That is gross, but it's, it's a fact.
The other thing that happens, and
this is, uh, you can look up the stat
in my book, planning small groups of
purpose, cause I quote it there, but in
2014, and here we are 10 years later.
And I can only guarantee you
this status up into the right.
But in 2014, 57 percent of kids under the
18 were not raised in a nuclear family.
So let's flip that around.
43 percent of children were raised in
a nuclear family of knowing one mom and
one dad, and they were under the age of
18, 57 percent in 2014, 10 years ago.
Did not know life in a nuclear family.
So they either had a single parent parent
family Either they're being raised by
a grandma and grandpa or they had same
sex partners that were raising them or
something like that But those are the two
things that destroyed the families, the
family unit, the most, uh, three secondary
ones are if you live in a military
community, they are uprooting your family,
moving you around all over the place.
If you're in corporate America, a lot
of times they move you for your job.
And secondary education, going to college
or doing your master's program, a lot
of times they'll take you out of state.
I'm a victim of both of that latter one.
Cause my son went to Arizona and Phoenix
and studied at green Canyon university.
Uh, my daughter went to Nashville
and studied at Lipscomb university.
Uh, and she met her husband there
and they got married and guess what?
They're staying in Nashville, Tennessee,
and our family unit is broken up.
Okay.
So it's no wonder that when people get
into a group and they say, I want to
stay with this group forever because
they are finding biblical family that
they didn't know about when they were
growing up with their existing family.
And then when you come around
saying, Hey, I want to break it up.
They're like going, I've already
played this tape before in my life and
I don't want to experience it again.
Now, here's the question.
The principle is evangelism.
The question is, what is your methodology?
The principles of evangelism,
some methodologies is
rapid cell multiplication.
That those strategies that come
out of China, Korea, and Columbia
tend to be not in our culture.
And so they may work.
That strategy may work.
And that's nothing wrong with that.
But I've found in most Western cultures
that when you say principles of evangelism
and you say rapid cell multiplication,
they're like saying no, thank you.
So what you got to do is say, what is it?
Cause you can't abort evangelism, but
you can offer a healthy alternative.
So a saddleback will say your group
can be closed and you can stay
together for as long as you like.
But what you have to do is hold their
feet to the fire on personal evangelism.
And that is, who is their one life that
they are trying to build a relationship
with that doesn't know Jesus, that
they're trying to bring to know the Lord.
And so evangelism can stay
front, first and foremost.
So the question was about multiplication.
The question is, you're talking
about a methodology, and if that
methodology isn't working, Then I
would say, maybe go to a different
methodology that I just described.
Derek Olson: Great answer.
On to good old number 17.
It says, can you believe this?
We're almost, we're almost
getting to the end of
Steve Gladen: I'm not believing you as
long as we're going, but keep going.
Derek Olson: What is the
outcome or win of a group?
As Steve takes a
Steve Gladen: I know that
was the end of the question.
Derek Olson: What is the
outcome or win of a group?
Steve Gladen: um, one of the things
I would say is that you've got to
know your end in mind and you have
to position group leaders to win.
And they need to know, okay, if I'm a
great group leader, what am I doing?
That is the end product.
And so for us at Saddleback, we're
saying what you want to do is
take the five verbs of the great
commission and the great commandment.
And balance them in your group or
what we'd say balance is a verb.
So harmonize these things in your
group, not equally and every night,
but just over the course of time.
And then we want to see those same verbs
become because they're verbs in the
great commission, great commandment.
We want to see them become
active inside of a life.
So that is our win.
Now, how you structure the group,
how you help the group, how you,
uh, train the group, how you
use curriculum to help you out.
Those are all subsets to this question.
But the bottom line is, is that you
want to help them become a group
that is producing what you want.
So you as a church and your senior
pastor have to decide what is that?
If you have the perfect disciple next to
you, what is it that they're exuding so
that you can have a win in your group?
Derek Olson: All right.
Uh, Steve, you
Steve Gladen: And guys, just for your
mod, by the way, whoever asked that
question, that is a great question.
Most churches don't take the time.
They have great slogans and
logo lines like love Jesus,
love others, love ourselves, or
whatever's the cute line they have.
We have them to balance the great
commission and the great commandment
and the life and soul of each person.
But the point is that they don't take
the time to build the infrastructure
under it, to answer the detailed
questions of what does that mean?
And then how do we do it?
So, sorry.
Derek Olson: No, that's great.
Great question for sure.
And again, thanks to everybody
for submitting these questions.
Man, there's so many good ones.
Steve, you got, you got
strength for one more?
Steve Gladen: Yeah, let's move it on.
Derek Olson: Okay, let's
get one more question.
This will be number,
we'll call it number 18.
And we're going to go with
a very interesting question.
Can adult Sunday school work Can adult
Sunday school work with small groups?
Steve Gladen: Yeah.
Uh, uh, in, in, in a heartbeat, I
would say any grouping of people,
whether they meet at Sunday morning
or whether they meet Wednesday or
Tuesday or Friday morning or whatever,
whatever they meet is not the issue.
Uh, the thing is, was the grouping
of people trying to produce
in small groups with purpose.
I wrote a, um.
a chapter on chapter 15 on how do you
have adult Sunday school work for you?
They're not enemies of each other.
Now, I will say this in groups that
me and I'm assuming they're talking
about adult Sunday school, but, um, for
groupings of people that meet off the
church campus or away from the church
property, their greatest Achilles
heel can be too much fellowship.
They become a social club.
So you've always have
to guard against that.
For this question in adult Sunday
school, what happens is their greatest
Achilles heel is too much discipleship.
By that, I mean too much head
knowledge, not disciple making, but
discipleship and just learning more.
And so what happens is, is we always talk
about temple courts and house to house.
That's what the new Testament talks about.
What happens?
The Achilles heel for adult Sunday school
is they can become mini temple courts.
And so there really is no house to house.
So one of the things I would say,
absolutely, yes, that that can happen.
But just understand what is the
Achilles heel of it and are they
willing to help make disciples the
way you want small groups to do it
so they're not a competing force.
Derek Olson: Well said!
Well, we did it!
We made it through the biggest small
group mailbag questions of all time.
uh, Steve, great job, um, pulling
from your 25 plus years of experience
to give us your best answers.
And hopefully, we'll Some of the stuff
I chimed in was, um, was good too.
But again, thanks to everybody
who, uh, submitted those questions
at the lobby gathering, 2024.
And, um, we just are hope and prayer
with this episode or these, these
episodes is that they empower you
and encourage you to build bigger
and better small groups, healthier,
small groups, Steve, any final words
Steve Gladen: Hey, thanks to
everyone for like Derek said
to submitting the questions.
We always try to answer them as
best we can and as often as we can.
However, many shows
has got broken up into.
I hope you enjoy them and
look at the show notes.
The show notes will have each 1
of the questions down there and
the various links that we talked
about that we would send your way.
Derek Olson: and until next
time, keep building community.
Thanks guys.
Steve Gladen: God bless.
Thank you for listening.
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