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Life creates many in-between moments.
Whether those in-betweens create grief, sorrow, heartache, or pain, also know that joy, refinement, hope, and transformation are just around the corner.
Dinine Sig wants to accompany you in all of these in-between times–because she herself has seen many. The Space In-
Between is your opportunity to connect, refresh, and renew yourself. Dinine hosts conversations that will carry you through all of life’s significant moments–all of which will help you feel empowered, encouraged, and understood.
Remember, there is magic found in the in-betweens.
TSIB - 2-4 B3 Preview Show
Dinine: [00:00:00] Hi friends. I'm Dinine. I'm the host of this show, the Space In Between. I'm a mom, I'm an attorney, I'm an author, and I'm also a widow. We're gonna get into some really important stuff today, and I'm really grateful that you're here and you're gonna be sitting with us on this space in between. Hi everyone and welcome to the Space in Between.
Today we are in Broad Ripple at the engine room. Shout out Anthony, and shout out Ryan. And we're gonna be diving into something really special. The B three Lab. It's an experience built around three simple but powerful ideas. Be brave, be bold. Believe the B three lab was actually born out of a conversation that started last year with Leah and Leslie.
You are here again. Uh, I've started wondering about creating a physical space to connect with listeners and continue that conversation and also [00:01:00] hoping, hoping to build community. I felt that there was more to that discussion that we didn't quite hit, and I thought it would help a multitude of women to be part of it.
So out of this belief that I think good things happen when we're willing to look at where we are, imagine what's possible, and take one small, brave step at a time. That's why we're here, this conversation and the B three lab and throughout the day that day, if you show up and hang out with us on November 7th, you'll hear us touch on the Enneagram, not in a technical way, but more as a lens to personalize the journey for you at the B three.
Because bravery, boldness, and belief look different for all of us. For some, it's speaking up. For others, it's slowing down. For many, it's just giving yourself permission to begin again. So whether you're listening from the middle of a transition, a healing season, [00:02:00] or a brand new start, this is your invitation to step into the lab with us, experiment, reflect, and rediscover your own brave, bold self.
And today I am joined by three incredible women who embody that spirit of being brave, being bold, and believing in their own unique ways, through their work, their stories, and the people they serve. Leslie Thompson is a financial planner with Focus Partners, formerly with Spectrum Management. She helps women navigate life's financial transitions with confidence and clarity.
Leah Quinta is a divorce transition coach who guides women through the process of rebuilding and rediscovering themselves after major life changes. An April Morgan, who was not in the first conversation but has joined us now, and we're so glad you're here, is a functional medicine pharmacist who helps people heal from the inside out, physically, emotionally, and spiritually.
Together [00:03:00] today, we're exploring what it means to live bravely, to act boldly, and to believe deeply, not just in our work, but in ourselves. So the B three Lab is about, as I said, being brave, being bold and believing in ourselves, especially after life's detours. What does that mean to
Speaker 2: each of you personally, April?
April Morgan: Well, for me, I am. Recently did the Enneagram quiz that we're all gonna be doing at the event and found that out that I'm a type seven, which means I'm an enthusiast. Um, so I'm very optimistic and I have the big picture vision. So, um, that was helpful to learn because I, uh, had transitioned out of a hospital pharmacy job into this other functional space that I'm in.
And, um, it helped me realize why I. Felt the need to do that.
Speaker 4: That's,
April Morgan: that's
Dinine: really interesting. I'm a seven too. Leah, are you a seven? Nope, [00:04:00] I'm a two. I always think you're a seven for some reason. I don't know why. Leslie, you're a one, right? I'm a one. Okay. So Leslie, what, um, what does it mean to you personally to believe in yourself, especially after detours or for your clients?
What is, what comes up?
Leslie Thompson: Um, it. For, for me it's, you know, understanding that, um, or believing that, that we all have a voice and a voice that needs to be heard. And so with a lot of the, um, people that I work with, especially women, I, and, and women coming through transition, typically divorce, sometimes widowhood, but um, you know, it's about bringing confidence.
Um. To, to women knowing that, you know, at, at some point they're gonna be responsible for, um, managing their wealth. And, um, oftentimes people that I work with haven't had that voice or the space to be able to, to, um, to, to manage for themselves. And so it's a huge transition. So I, I, um, really try to [00:05:00] walk beside them, um, taking to the next step for a better place.
Dinine: That's great. They're probably lucky to have you, I think. All of you who are here, and Leah, what does that mean
Leah GiaQuinta: for you to think about that? I love this question.
Speaker 4: Yay.
Leah GiaQuinta: Um, for me, and I'll just speak personally to my experience and um, to anyone else who, um, the two, the two on the Enneagram means helper. And so, um, I am a firstborn daughter of, and I have five siblings.
Um, I felt very much like a helper as a mom to my four kids. And when you grow up as a helper, you often assign your worth and your value to how much you are able to help others. And for me, being brave and it. You know, [00:06:00] a life transition like divorce can absolutely, uh, leave you in a place where you are rediscovering who you are in your situation.
And for me, um, the question that I needed to ask myself is who, who am I, if I am not able to help everyone else around me and even more uncomfortable. Is leaning in to receiving help from others, and that requires, that requires you to, um, be very vul vulnerable and to lean into the discomfort that is often disguised as pride.
And, um, and to determine that you're worthy of receiving that. So, so for me, being brave and being bold is recognizing that I don't have to be helping everyone around me. You can, you can understand that [00:07:00] can even lead into other conver conversations about codependence. But, you know, what am I doing, um, to.
Um, uh, lean into, um, accepting resources, help, love, affection, um, worthiness, that that leads to the best version of myself. Absolutely. And,
Dinine: um, I think that leads us into our next question. Um, each of you guides people through transformation financially, physically, emotionally. Why do you think courage is such a key part of this change or these changes?
I think that is sort of what Leo was about to start hitting on. Mm-hmm. What do you think, in your own practice, April, how does courage play into that?
April Morgan: Well, um, in the healthcare world, it's very patriarchal. Uh, women need to really understand the themselves, their bodies and what's going on with them, where they're gonna get the same answer [00:08:00] that's giving to everybody.
And you're kind, it's not personalized, I guess, is, um. You need to be courageous and under and really realize that, and speak up for yourself and be your own. Educate yourself. Yeah.
Dinine: Yeah. Thank you. Leslie, what do you, what do you think about someone going through a financial transition?
Leslie Thompson: You know, I actually, I, I agree with what April had to say.
I mean, in, in the wealth management space, it, it too is very patriarchal. Um, always has been and, and continues to to be today. And so, um, you know, similar to your health, you need to, um. You know, feel free and, um, to answer questions. And if you don't get the answer that you want, realize that it, it's probably not you.
Um, it's probably the person on the receiving end, um, you know, with their own agenda. Keep asking, keep asking. Okay. Um, yeah, keep asking. And, um. Keep knocking on the door, right? For sure. If you don't get the answer that you need, keep digging. Keep digging. It's there. [00:09:00] I mean, it's there. You just have to connect with the, the right person and realize that it's, it's not, you
April Morgan: might not be convenient
Leslie Thompson: person.
And what do you think, Leah? You were
Dinine: sort of hitting on it
Leah GiaQuinta: already.
Dinine: Mm-hmm. Do you echo
Leah GiaQuinta: that or, I was thinking about that this earlier this morning. Often when I think about courage and what it means to be brave, I think about. Um, and, and you mentioned this earlier, um, that looks different for everybody and I think one thing that we can all resonate with is how it feels when you get quiet, um, to sense resistance.
Um, that inner resistance and, you know, what am I resisting when I am in a place where, um, there's not clarity or that I'm stressed or, you know, life hands you, um, a situation that's stressful. [00:10:00] Um. Is, is determining where, what that resistance is, and oftentimes the way to really explore what that resistance is is when you get really, really quiet.
And, and often that resistance is the way, and, and finding the tools as far as leaning into that resistance is what takes courage. And so depending on what your situation and who you are, what, what does that resistance look for you? Um, you mentioned, you know, maybe. In a stressful state of life, your, your go-to pattern is a flight res response, and so maybe the resistance is staying still.
For me, I'm a freezer when, when I get stressed, I, I am like PETA in the hunger game, stuck in the mud, like I'm not moving. And I am grateful that I have people around me that can [00:11:00] come in and get me and pull me outta the fire. But, but for me, being courageous means taking that first step forward when I want to stay still.
So, so
Dinine: that's, and that's part of the B three in that we hope to personalize this for women slightly, right? With the Enneagram. So they might learn, why do I freeze or why do I fly? Light. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, that's an interesting thing. I think you've already answered this, but I wanna ask, um, April and Leslie, when you think of bravery in your own story, I think I have an idea what you both might say, but I wanna ask April, what do you think of?
April Morgan: Well, um, we're really going through a transition in the healthcare space right now. Um, things have changed a lot. We've got a lot more advanced testing. It's not really being offered up to everyone. So it took a lot of [00:12:00] bravery to um, delve into that, see what was available, and kind of figure out how I could help people, um, as a pharmacist.
So I can't be your physician. But at the same time, there's so many mixed messages on social media about supplements and. Autism and everything. Yeah. With the Ty, I mean everything, so especially now, yeah. I needed to be brave and, and learn this whole other aspect of medicine
Dinine: and be comfortable and comfortable sharing it because Yes.
Yeah. That's what I'm thinking, like for you to approach it that way. I'm not, I don't wanna finish your sentence, but that's what I'm thinking. Yeah. Yeah. What, what do you think, Leslie, what comes to mind for you?
Leslie Thompson: So for me, um, I've been in the wealth management industry for, for 30 years and I, I've built a, um, over a billion dollar registered investment advisor that I recently sold this year.
But my [00:13:00] trajectory within, and I've always ly stated, I, I don't think that the wealth management industry has always been kind to women. And for me, you know, there's been along the way. Both physical and mental abuse and, um, in terms of my trajectory. But I always had, and I'm a quiet person, but I'm, I've been patient and I've worked really diligently to, um, kind of mu move beyond that space because I had confidence in my own power, um, to get me kind of through that.
So it's been, um, kind of really persistence. And, um, trying to navigate in a, a quiet way, but also, and I've gotten, um, much more assertive over the years. Bet you have, but, um, but haven't we all probably in this room, you know, and I mean, that's just kind of like part of the growth, but, um, you know, [00:14:00] yeah, it's, um, it's a process and so,
Dinine: well, I know that, um, uh, your clients are definitely benefiting from that.
Um, the same way April's and Leah's are. So my next question is, how do you help your clients? You're all in three different spaces. How do you help your clients find the courage when they're standing at the edge of something new, a new life, a new body, a new bank account, a new relationship, a new job, whatever.
How do you, Leah, do you wanna start with that
Speaker 2: one? Hmm. I think when it comes
Leah GiaQuinta: to, uh, helping clients, um, with the work that I do, it's helping them, uh, find their own inner compass. Uh, so many of my clients already know the way, uh, but so many things, [00:15:00] um, get in the way. Um, the distractions of. Um, you know, head trash, you know, limiting beliefs.
Uh, sometimes, uh, like Leslie said, external messaging that is continued to, um, be presented, you know, gets into the. Ears of my clients to so many times that they start to believe that that's true. That's
Dinine: the struggle though, I think. I think for all of us, whatever you're in. Mm-hmm. Mentally controlling what you allow into your filter.
Yep. Is the first. I know I had to learn that a few years ago. It's the first thing that helped me get a handle on depression or sadness or whatever. It was like literally filtering out. But if you
Leah GiaQuinta: help them do that and recognizing Yeah. If that's coming from your environment, uh, I, I can't tell you how many clients, uh, we have this [00:16:00] moment where the, the noise isn't coming from within, but it's coming externally.
And once they limit or make changes to their environment and, and the, that messaging stops, the transformation is palpable. I, I can see
Dinine: that. I can feel that. Mm-hmm. Thank you. So, um, let's dive into a little bit of, uh, different types of bravery. Leslie, for many people talking about money brings fear and shame.
What does it look like to be brave financially, in your opinion or in your background of dealing with all d I'm sure all different types of clients who bring their, their childhood baggage to you or whatever they're bringing.
Leslie Thompson: Sure. You know, um, a a lot of the people that I, I'm working with now and my career has mostly been actually managing individual equity portfolios.
And, um, but you know, I've, I've had this special love for working with [00:17:00] women through transition and a lot of times, and most of the time it's divorce and it's a high net worth and ultra high net worth divorce in situations where I think with money, there's a lot of control issues with money and control that.
I think people bring on themselves, you know, and how they approach, but also control that was placed upon them. And so as I'm working with clients, navigating the, um, financial aspect, you know, potentially looking for hidden money, really understanding the truth behind what they thought that they heard, um, versus reality and just kind of really working in, um.
Closeness with, with the attorney trying to figure things out. Um, it's, you know, the, the, the best part is actually getting people beyond that space when the decree is final and then setting up that life for them. And so I feel like I'm like a mom or a big sister to, to the clients that I'm working with because I'm setting up absolutely everything to get them started on a path to freedom [00:18:00] financially, on a path to confidence and, um.
So, yeah. Yeah. Thank you.
Dinine: Um, April, sometimes bravery means listening to your body and making changes that others don't understand. This kind of hearkens back to what you just said. How do you see bravery showing up in healing?
April Morgan: Well, I think you need to find practitioners that you trust. You need to be brave enough to go with your gut instinct and.
Find the people that are act, that actually care about people. And, and then you need to, you know, lean on their expertise. So, you know, what I do is I, I wanna empower people to take ownership of their health, but I need to lead them through that. And I think, um, the way I've set up my program with the advanced, uh, functional testing.
I'm able to make them braver when I show them their results and then what they need to do. [00:19:00] Like a positive move. The needle reinforcement. Yeah. When you show results, I think people need the, the evidence a little bit. Okay. Of what's off balance and um, how to get back to feeling better.
Dinine: Thank you, Leah.
Bravery during divorce or major transition often means letting go. I know this is a big theme to me too. How do you help people find bravery? When everything feels uncertain, unstable, shaky. Hmm.
Leah GiaQuinta: That is, that is such a great question. And that is so much of the work that I help people do. Um, when I think about letting go, and I'm gonna, this will piggyback on, on what April had to say about embodiment.
Um. Because what my, what it takes me back to is, you know, before I was a divorce transition [00:20:00] coach, I, uh, was a physical therapist. And I think about some of the patients that I used to work with that had contractures in their hands were in a, a grip or a grasp. And what you would think as. Uh, you know, as a rehabilitation specialist, you know, or as a student in physical therapy that you would, you know, maybe take your hand and try to pry your hand open in order to stretch those tendons.
Dinine: I think I know what you're gonna say next though.
Leah GiaQuinta: But what happens is when you force that letting go and you pull those tendons out, what that does is it reinforces the strength of the grasp. And the tendency is for the patient to grab hold even farther, even, even stronger. What a great like analogy.
Analogy or visual about [00:21:00] letting go. So the rehabilitative technique is to activate. The tendons on the opposite side of your hand, your extensor tendons. And the more that you work to actually activate the tendons that allow the hand to let go is the path to doing so. So, so the metaphor is here, the more you focus on what you're letting go of, the more you tend to hold onto that thing even more.
But the more you challenge yourself to think. What else could I grasp? Or, you know, how do I open and reach for something bigger or better? Or how do I think about my life abundantly? How do I consider instead of what I'm losing, what I'm gaining? When you start to really, um, have conversations about, [00:22:00] um.
You know, the latter instead of, instead of the former. That that's what, um, that's where the work is as far as letting go. Yeah. I love, I love that
Dinine: picture of the hand. Thank you so much. So using the Enneagram as a loose guide, bravery can look different for each type. For example, for a type two, the helper.
Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
Dinine: Bravery might mean setting boundaries while for a type seven. April and I, the enthusiast, it might mean sitting still with discomfort. What resonates with each of you about that
April Morgan: in your work? Yeah, that would've been great to know about five years ago. Um, and I really, but you know it now. I know it now, and I, yeah, I beat myself up because sevens really have a hard time focusing because we want to experience.
Everything. And, and so I really, um, I found this very interesting. I, I, I loved that I had [00:23:00] the eight challenger wing because that's how I was able to be assertive and to actually go with my strengths of my enthusiasm and my optimism to do something else. Um, and then I also have the five arrow, which means I can hyperfocus and research.
So I put all that together to really. Transform and be brave. I like that.
Dinine: Um,
Leslie Thompson: Leslie, what
Dinine: about
Leslie Thompson: you? So I'm a one. Yeah. And so a one, um, you know, we are, um, very organized perfectionistic, which, um, you know, sometimes, you know, doesn't gel well with, um, so Leslie has to let go too. Not only do you, so it doesn't necessarily like gel well with, with everyone, or they think perhaps, um.
You know, I'm being critical or whatever the case may be. But I think, um, what's great about the one for me is kind of actually, and it's interesting, it is what I [00:24:00] actually do. And, and, um, so I, I need to be like hyper-focused and organized, um, perfectionism, you know, kind of, um, hard to debate that one, but I, I think what I'm able to use those powers is help the people that I help with because.
It, it's so easy for me in terms of understanding next step and being so process oriented that I'm able to, you know, with ease, you know, hopefully like set people up for success in the future.
Dinine: So. Okay. So, um, Leah using the Enneagram as a loose guide, um, what do you think you need to focus on for bravery, or what do you see?
Maybe if you wanna use a client as an example,
Leah GiaQuinta: I can, um. So, so my Enneagram number is, is A two. And what I found in one of the really detailed tests is that I actually have equal wings of one and three. And so, [00:25:00] um, I just felt like my divorce was like a one two punch. Like I got hit in all three numbers because, you know, my, my helper side felt like.
Maybe I didn't do enough to help or save the marriage. You know, that was a huge blow. Um, and then my one wing, you know, is that has a perfectionist or, um, the good girl, right? That's, you know, you wanna be a good girl. And so, um, and for me, I wanted to be a good mom and how I was gonna be a good mom if, you know, I was struggling, you know, with single, you know, divorced mom things.
And so. The growth there was sitting in, um, in a place where life was messy. And embracing it anyway, and embracing myself. Anyway, that was like, that was the one place that I, I learned there. And then with my two, it was setting boundaries and saying I'm in a life space that I can't [00:26:00] help my friend or help do, help someone do something and recognize that that didn't make me less of a person.
It's just, um, my life face. And, and then with my, with my three wing, it's, you know. Just the thought of my marriage failing, right? Like, you know, I wanted, I was an A student, I wanted an A plus at marriage. Agreed. I understand that so much. And so, so for me, recognizing that, um, uh, my growth was recognizing that, you know, you're still a whole.
Holy person. Um, and, and not defined by what you do and what you accomplish.
Dinine: Yeah,
Leah GiaQuinta: that's,
Dinine: that seems like growth for everybody. Um, do any of you see patterns in your clients that mirror certain Enneagram energies? Now that we've dug deep a little bit deeper into it, like avoidance control, overgiving. [00:27:00] How do you gently help them face those patterns in how you're treating them?
You know, April, you've got patients, Leslie and Leah have clients.
April Morgan: Yeah. I actually just used chat, GPT to, to explore that a little bit and it actually gave me tools for each type, uh, and how they would manage their healthcare. So the giver may need to realize that giving to themselves is giving to others, taking, you've gotta take care of yourself first.
Um, you know, the, the real type, uh, what do I say? The type ones, I think, uh, or twos I can't remember, are very, um. They need the structure, they want the, they want the supplements that are gonna do the most, the quickest. So if they don't get immediate results, they may be moving on. Yeah. And not be in for the long haul.
Um, other people need a journal, the type four, I think the individualists, they're very prone to taking whatever someone off the street tell 'em would work for them. So, wow. They need to be [00:28:00] journaling and, and keeping track, really being aware that of their tendency to. Yeah. Okay. Listen to non-experts
Dinine: I guess.
So keeping track of like all the data 'cause they're not as Yeah. Structured maybe. Interesting. Yeah. Some people need, um, supplement
April Morgan: cases. I think the sevens, they said we need a colorful supplement case and I have one. Okay. And you're just to pair it with fun things. Oh, that's like your tea and you know all that.
That's awesome. Yeah.
Speaker 7: I think I told you I used to. Use vodka with myself. Yeah. Yeah.
April Morgan: You, you told me to vodka.
Speaker 7: I did not say that was okay. I know my old functional medicine doctor in New York, she was like, INE, what am I gonna do with you? I was like, really? Get it down. It makes sense. It makes sense. You wanna enjoy it.
It wasn't a big glass of vodka, but it was like, I mean really, it's okay. Not every day. Probably not helping anyone. Alright. Um. Uh, Leslie, do you have anything to add to that
Leslie Thompson: or, you know, I think most women, my, my gut is, um, [00:29:00] that they fall into that two helper category by and large, and, you know, as it relates to finances.
And I think that's kind of the, and, and it relates to just transition, uh, traditional, um, you know, views of what men do and what women do. Um, you know, finance is. You know, a man thing typically. Yeah. And so, and, and I think a lot of people in their marriage is, you know, you kind of divide and conquer in whatever you're, you're doing.
And so women, oftentimes it's everything financial. They've either been controlled by it or they didn't really care about it because someone else was taking care of it. And so, you know, I think that people need to. Women need to kind of lean in that at some point in their life, um, they are gonna be in charge of, you know, their finances, their parents' finances, be helping kids, whatever the case may be.
And, and they need to, um, you know, accept some responsibility. And [00:30:00] it, and it's hard because again, it's like a, an industry and a space that hasn't always been helpful or listened to the needs of women.
Dinine: I'm gonna change it up a little bit, Leah. Um, being bold. Then transition. Thank you. Leslie might mean rewriting your story. How do you help someone move from, this happened to me to, I'm writing what comes next. And I hope that's a fair question to ask you. Mm-hmm. And if it feels unfair, let me know and we'll reword it.
Mm-hmm.
Leah GiaQuinta: No, I absolutely. Um. I love to write, so I, I love, um, thinking about this in um, terms of, of metaphors of new chapters and, and main character energy.
Speaker 4: Definitely.
Leah GiaQuinta: Um, I, I spoke with somebody who, um, you know, reframed her experience, [00:31:00] um, of. Experiencing a stroke and, and was very careful to identify the difference between, uh, naming yourself a victim of something and a survivor.
Uh, she said victims die. Interesting. Yeah. Survivors are still, you know, you are still here. And, and so broaden, broadening your lens, you know, and, and your perspective. Um, you know, my favorite poet is Mary Oliver, and you know her line. Tell me what is it you will do with this one Wild and precious life.
You know, you are still here. And, um, yeah, how, you know, how do you want the other, the other one of my favorite stories too, in thinking about next chapter, my, my grandfather, um, passed away, um, several years ago and he was, um, he was a [00:32:00] state representative here in Indiana, but he didn't run for office until his seventies.
Did you tell me that? And that's amazing, by the way, you know, and, and he was a, he was a World War II veteran and he, um, and, and he was a realtor and he was all these things. But, but that was, that was one of his biggest accolades in his life. And really, you know, what he was remembered by was, you know, all the things that he served as community as a state representative.
But to think that he didn't even start, even start, you know, until the end of his life. Um, I love that though. And, and there are so many stories like that.
Dinine: And like Frank Lloyd Wright mm-hmm. Didn't you guys hear like he didn't design That's right. Until the late seventies, early eighties. Right. I didn't know that.
Leah GiaQuinta: Right. And so, so why, why not us? And, and yeah, maybe this is, this isn't your, this isn't the way your story ends. It's just your plot twist.
Dinine: Yeah. Bring the main character energy even when you're in [00:33:00] your seventies and eighties. I love that. Um, April Boldness and thank you Leah. Boldness and Wellness. Can mean saying no to quick fixes.
I think I know where you're gonna go with this, but I'm gonna ask and yes. To deeper healing. How do you guide clients towards sustainable empowered choices?
April Morgan: Well, I'm gonna empower them 364 days, 23 hours and 45 minutes because you see your primary care doctor. About 15 minutes a year. So, wow. You really need to, you know, give people the pa, you know, empower them because 90% of your health is what you're doing every day and it's the habits you have.
So you know, everybody can, needs to start from a different space. If you're already having symptoms, you already have disease, we're gonna start one place. If you are healthy as a horse. You can still delve in.
Speaker 4: Yeah. If
April Morgan: you've got a bad habit, you need to dump that, you know, and, and get a new one. But, um, yeah, I just think I [00:34:00] help people prioritize, I guess I would say, above all else.
And give them a plan.
Dinine: I like that. Um, yeah. Yeah. That's great. Leslie, being bold with money can mean asking, and I think you've touched on this, but I wanna ask, you mean asking for what you're worth or making the investment dec making big investment decisions. What helps women step into that boldness in your experience?
Leslie Thompson: Sure. I think, you know, everyone, um, you know, re regardless of gender, whatever, but everyone kind of, you know, I think every year needs to kind of level set and figure out what's real and what's not real. And so, um, oftentimes, you know, and, and really looking at how people spend and what they're spending on, um.
Is is really critically important. I think it, it tells a lot about people and even with the helper, Enneagram, you know, I have clients that because they are helpers, they're spending more than they should. Um, and so, you know, you have to, because [00:35:00] with many of my clients, um. Their likelihood of actually like reentering the workforce, um, that they've never really participated in, you know, beyond mid twenties, um, is probably not something that they wanna do.
Sometimes you have to do it, but I think everything needs to kind of begin with your spend and why, and understanding that. And then, you know, from there, it's. Um, you know, helps, you know, guide projections in terms of, you know, what security looks like and, and what items will derail that security. And it's not, you know, similar to, um.
You know, in a way, your health, um, it's, it's really a constant check-in, um, because again, the, the spending could tell more about yourself and what's going on. Um, and that's kind of the really the biggest derailment for all people. Um, and so that's, you know, something that, that, that we focus on and, um, you know, help adjust and kind of [00:36:00] create that plan for really financial freedom and the well into the future.
Dinine: Yeah. Thank you. Um. So when you think about Enneagram energy here, say a type three, the achiever might have to slow down and be vulnerable to truly grow while an eight, the challenger might need to soften and trust. What does boldness mean in those contrasts? Can you share a time when being bold completely changed your path or when it scared you?
And I'll just let each of you decide, which.
April Morgan: Yeah, I was trying to focus and stick with my path and, um, I think, uh, sevens have a hard time with that. And so when I realized I didn't have to do that, I didn't need to stick the same thing I was doing my whole life. Um, I had to lean on that challenger. I had to challenge that thought that I needed to hyperfocus.
I [00:37:00] was not allowing me to do other things. Did you feel, did you
Dinine: feel fear around that? Oh yeah. That you
April Morgan: challenged Because I had made myself focus so much in school, in the hospital.
Dinine: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Um, so Leslie and Leo, when you think about that question, um, is there a time when you were being bold, completely changed your path, and was there fear around it?
You did it, even if it scared you, or it could be something personal, you may wanna relate that isn't career driven, or you may just not have anything that comes to mind 'cause you're such bad asses. I don't know. I, um, I know that for me, uh, after I moved here, which I didn't approach with, I don't think enough fear.
Um, and then after things happened, I had to kind of confront the fear that, um. For the first time, I had made a really terrible decision and it didn't just affect me, it affected my kids, my [00:38:00] parents, my cousins, my sister. Um, it was a decision that had, I don't even know if you wanna call it ripple effects, but it had wave effects in the pool of my family and my friends, and I had to confront that and stop blaming myself.
And kind of give myself the space to slow down a little bit. Someone did tell me at that time I was a seven and sevens just keep pushing. And that's sometimes something huge has to happen for you to stop pushing through. So, um, that was, there was a fear involved with that. There was a fear in my every day there was a fear in the loss of what I thought was my stability and I had to confront it and, um.
I do think it changed my path in the way because I didn't just revert back to who I was. I am, I have presence of her, but I'm not fully her. [00:39:00] I'm someone different now too. There's a little bit of both denine, I guess. Mm-hmm. Uh, before and after, and I like me better now. I always thought I liked myself. I thought I had high self-esteem, but when I really had to build it from that position.
'cause no one had knocked me down before that way. Mm. Um, I now know what true love, true self-love is. And so there was a, there was a fear associated with that, but I feel like I overcame it. So that's my personal, um, thing. But I don't, I didn't want to put you guys on the spot if you, if you had
Leah GiaQuinta: anything else to add to that.
I, I can speak to that in just my own professional journey. Uh, I, you know, for me, divorce was a life quake and then I had aftershocks and one of those aftershocks was re uh, figuring out how I [00:40:00] was going to reenter. Uh. The workforce after being at home with my kids for over 10 years, and I just couldn't figure out.
Um, like I said, my previous job, I worked in outpatient orthopedic, uh, physical therapy as a physical therapist, and I couldn't figure out how all of the pieces fit back together. It didn't, it didn't make sense to me. Um. I, I couldn't fathom how I was going to continue to be the hands-on mom that I wanted to be and have my hands on, uh, patients in the clinic.
And so I, I worked with a coach to try to expand my options and possibilities and figure out how I might be able to. Better find a better balance, a work life balance with my kids and work that felt purposeful and meaningful to me. And that was when, um, I [00:41:00] landed on coaching as a way for me to be able to do that.
And what I decided immediately was that I was going to go into health and wellness coach coaching because that felt safe and reliable with my background in healthcare. And it was during, and I had mentioned this in our last podcast. Yeah. It was during my coaching certification program that I had women, um, seeking.
My guidance for their divorce, and it was one after another after another, and that was where I felt the resistance. I could tell that there was a tapping, a nudge, a calling, and I could also very much feel in my bones that being a divorce coach was not anything that I was interested in doing. And when I really got quiet, and this is kind of the resistance that I was talking about, I recognized that the resistance was my own ego, [00:42:00] and that is because I wasn't proud.
Um, to be a div, you know? Yeah. The divorce wasn't anything I was ever proud of, let alone put it on a business card, be a specialist in it, be a specialist in it. Um, and, and so as soon as I recognized that that was what was getting in my way. That's confronting the fear of it, then I, and changing your mm-hmm.
Yeah. Mm-hmm. And I leaned in and, and that day that I showed up to my coaching, uh, certification class and said, I've decided to switch my niche. I'm not going to do health and wellness. I'm going to specialize in helping women through the challenging transitions of divorce. And then from then on, I just dove straight in.
And we're all better for it.
Dinine: We're all better for it. Okay. Leslie, did you have anything you wanted to add? Like I have more so don't, no. Okay. Just
Speaker 4: kidding.
Dinine: Alright, so, um, [00:43:00] believe can mean believing in yourself, in others, or in the process. We've talked a little bit, I think about each of that today, but what does belief look like in your work?
How does belief play into your client's transformations? Whether that's believing they can heal, start over or build financial stability. Um, Leslie, I'm gonna start with you. 'cause I ended on financial stability,
Leslie Thompson: you know, um, belief for me, um, just over the last 30 some years, um, kind of doing what I do, um, you know, I always had that kind of internal confidence that, and I, and I would say that I.
From a child, I am actually doing what I wanted to do. So, um, my, my father ran money. He was an an investor and that's the only way that he's ever communicated with me was about the stock market. So, from a very young age, um, I was actually trading stocks [00:44:00] and commodities. So like I, and I loved business, so I always knew kind of that, that transition, um, for me, for career pathing and.
But the belief part, because I, I, and, and I would get all the designation, like I, you know, everything that you needed to do, but I had to internally believe that I can do it because the outside world and even today, um, you know, isn't reaffirming of, of, you know, women in the space of. Of money. I'm on plenty of calls where I'm the only female in the room.
And um, you know, um, you have to have a belief in yourself too, right? You have to have a deep belief. And, and for clients it's believing that, I mean, there is a better day. All of this stuff is going to make sense and, you know, sometime it takes time and that they need to believe that they de de deserve to be in the space.[00:45:00]
To ask questions and, you know, get to, you know, a better place. And so, you know, belief is, you know, a strong, strong, big part. What's it is.
Dinine: Yeah. And, and I think your clients are probably the better for it too. So, um, April the Enneagram helps people understand what drives them, their fears and their gifts. I know you're a recent taker of the Enneagram, so how do you believe that this type of self-awareness that comes from knowing your number and your wings can strengthen that belief?
In other words, learning about what drives you and what might also slow you down?
April Morgan: Yeah, I was very affirming for me, um. I no longer feel bad that I need to be by myself to focus. Um, and especially when you go through menopause and you lose that estrogen, that actually makes you less, um, social. And I thought, [00:46:00] what is wrong with me?
Because I was so outgoing and so social. So I think, you know, you've gotta believe in the process. It's, um, it's not gonna be easy, but if you know your Enneagram and you know your personality and your tendencies. You can kind of mentally just, um, note that and don't get stuck in the spiral of beating yourself up about it.
Dinine: Yeah. Thank you. Leah. If someone is feeling stuck right now, what's one small belief they can start with today that you believe?
Leah GiaQuinta: One of the exercises that I help my clients with, because, you know, oftentimes they feel stuck because they're in a situation that they have never been in before and. The exercise is that.
Often the way through doesn't have anything to do with the situation. It just has everything to do with, as you said, you know, your ability to navigate through. And so one of the exercises I do with my clients is [00:47:00] say, okay, all right, so you don't know how to work through this problem. What's the last problem that you successfully navigated through?
Oh, I like that. So, so typically, yeah, and typically somebody can. Figure something out. You know what a, what a great way to help someone. Mm-hmm. And that way they're drawing on their own personal experiences. It doesn't matter how much I could tell 'em that you're gonna be, I mean, now granted. I am a cheerleader at heart, and so I love cheering people on, but I also literally physically, literally spiritually, literally.
Um, and, but I also recognize the difference between external and internal support. And it's the internal support that really, um, you know, is what's important and, and gives the client with the most longevity. Um, so I like that.
Dinine: I like that you remind them. It's different than when you see something like on Instagram or um, TikTok, where it's like you've survived every bad thing before.
It's like, yeah. You know [00:48:00] that, but when you phrase it like that, it feels very relatable. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I don't know about the rest of you. Well,
Leah GiaQuinta: and then the, the second question is, okay, and, and when you figured that thing out, what, what was the thought in your head? Yeah, I can do it. You know, what's the thought?
I, yeah, I can do this, do this. There was something that, yeah, something that
Dinine: kept you going.
Leah GiaQuinta: Yeah. And so whatever's keeping you stuck, you know, what, what thought is that? And, and how can you replace that with, with that former version of confident and capable and competent. You.
Dinine: That's awesome. So I keep thinking back, um, to the last time Leslie, Leah, and I were in a room like this talking.
Um, we ended that conversation on a simple but powerful truth. And it came about quite naturally and I think organically, but the theme of that conversation was don't play small. I think you said it and [00:49:00] Leslie said it in different ways. Um, and that sort of grew. So it's a thought that has been sort of growing, as I just said in my mind ever since.
Because being brave, being bold and believing in your in yourself isn't about being fearless. It's about choosing not to shrink even when it would be easier to get yourself small. So as we come to the sort of end of this show today, I wanna ask each of you, I'm gonna start with you, April, what's one belief you've had to
Speaker 2: let go of in order to grow?
I would say I
April Morgan: had to let go of just the conventional black and white thinking and kind of bring the art of medicine back to the science. Um, I love that to allow others to live fully in their body, mind and spirit.
Dinine: I love that. Bring the, what did you say? Bring the art back to the science.
April Morgan: Yeah. Medicine is an art and a science, but I think we've forgotten [00:50:00] that a little bit.
It's just very convenient for the big players to make it very. Black and white.
Dinine: Yeah. Mm-hmm. So you're finding the nuance. Yeah. Very nuanced. Yes. It's a great
April Morgan: word. Yes. I love that. Exactly what I'm doing.
Dinine: What about you, Leslie? Do you want me to repeat? Yeah, go ahead. All right. So what's one belief you've had to let go of in order to grow in your business or your personal?
Leslie Thompson: You know, I, I think it's, um, really that perfectionistic tendency because it can drive people away and, um. Can be, um, pretty intense. And, um, and I'm a problem solver and I get things done and, and sometimes you have to take a step back and that's kind of really, I think the position that I'm in now is that I feel free to kind of take that step back and help mentor and help, um.
You know, be maybe less intense and by, by doing so [00:51:00] you attract more people to you. And um, I like that. Yeah, I like that
Speaker 2: Leah. Yeah, for me, don't play small. Uh, it makes
Leah GiaQuinta: me think about the phrase, um, you know, speak even if your voice shakes, shakes. Um. And when people come to me and, um, they're out of practice speaking.
Yeah. Or, or PE speaking or, or just taking up space in the room. You know, those are, those are muscles that are deconditioned and, and, and in a way, once you start using those muscles, they are shaky. Yeah. Uh, and I. What comes to mind for me is that, yeah, even if your voice shakes, um, get a megaphone or, or [00:52:00] find or find someone who can speak or stand next to you.
Stand next to you, stand next to you and, and surround yourself with resources and advocates. And all of you know the external supports that you need until your bigness, um, is supported by your own internal strength. And sometimes that's
Dinine: harder than it sounds to find that support. Mm-hmm. But just keep, I would wanna say, keep trying.
Don't, don't give up. That's part of, I think giving up is sometimes the easier way that we've sort of been conditioned. So when you're faced with something really strong, or feel stronger, or looks stronger than you. Don't give up even if you're shaking even. So maybe you do need to look up something on, you know, the internet and find an advocate for yourself or find, so I just wanna be clear that sometimes it's not that easy to bring that to you, that help that you need.
But don't, don't give up. Keep looking for it. [00:53:00] And what do you think? I'll stay with you, Leah. What's one small action you would challenge listeners to take this week? Just this week as they're listening to this? Besides coming to the B three on November 7th, um, what is one small action they can take that would feel brave or bold, even if it is quiet?
Because you talked about using a shaky
Speaker 2: voice.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Um, I would say to stay open and curious to what's possible. Love that.
Dinine: What about you, Leslie?
Leslie Thompson: Yeah, I agree with Leah and I think this Enneagram, which, um, is completely new to me. Prior to, um, the discussions that, you know, we had around B three, it's really being open to getting to understand yourself a little better through whatever resources.
And I think the Enneagrams been a really interesting kind of fun. Resource [00:54:00] to, to be able to take, um, kinda a, a step deeper so that you're able to kind of take that understanding and, um, help guide your future. Love it. What about you? April,
April Morgan: I would say, um, like Mr. Rogers said, uh, look for the helpers. Uh, there are a lot of people out there that can help you, uh, with your health.
You just need to, um, form your team and, and, and advocate for yourself and find those people. Um, there are a lot of, there's a lot of expertise you can tap into. There's a, there's a lot going on in medicine. Um, if your instinct is telling you, okay, I am supposed to take this pill and I'm not getting better.
Well, you, you do need to dig.
Dinine: Yeah. So I think in sort of concluding the show, one of the things that we ended on last time and that we end them today is don't play small. And I want those of you listening right now. To really understand that that's what the [00:55:00] B three Lab is about. We wanna help you show up fully.
Be brave, be bold, and believe in yourself, even if it feels uncertain. There are so many transitions as women that we go through and we wanna help give you tools to navigate that. I also wanna give a quick shout out to a couple of special collaborators of the B three Lab who could not join us today for this recording.
First of all, Lindsay at Copper Z Creative Wellness, we are so excited to welcome her to our lab. She will be bringing a creative and restorative element to the day with a beautiful sound bath. And I'm really looking forward to that part of the day. And our keynote speaker, Rachel Pritz, whose insight and wisdom around leadership and resilience will guide the conversation in such a meaningful way.
Thank you ladies, Rachel and Lindsay. For being part of this with us, so to you, dear listener, dear friend, wherever you are in your own [00:56:00] journey, don't play small. Take one brave step this week, even if it's a small one, that's where you can play small. I guess taking that first step, let go of a belief that's holding you back.
And remember, the world needs your full, authentic, courageous self. So be brave. Be bold. And believe, and we'll see you at the B three Lab, November 7th, five 50 East 96th Street in Indianapolis. Looking forward to it. Thanks guys for meeting me on the space in between.
Thank you so much for joining me today. Remember that even in your worst days, there is always something beautiful. You just need to look for it. Until next [00:57:00] time.