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Humans of the Northern Beaches: We Belong is a podcast amplifying diverse voices from Sydney’s Northern Beaches. Hosted by local community leaders, each episode takes you on a journey through personal stories that delve into identity, culture, migration, disability, food and the profound connections that bind our community together.
Join us as we celebrate the stories that unite us all and discover how these narratives can inspire meaningful change in our own lives. Subscribe now and be part of a movement that embraces diversity and fosters community spirit.
All views and opinions expressed by participants in this podcast belong to the participants and do not reflect the views of Northern Beaches Council.
[Introduction] Hi, and welcome to the Humans of the
Northern Beaches We Belong podcast, the
show that gives a voice to a diverse range
of community members here on the
Northern Beaches in Sydney, Australia.
We wish to acknowledge the traditional
custodians of the lands on which we are
recording this podcast and show our
respect to the Elders, past and present,
and any Aboriginal and Torres
Strait Islander people listening in.
This podcast is proudly funded by the
New South Wales government through the New
South Wales Social Cohesion
Grants for Local Government.
All views and opinions expressed by
participants in this podcast belong to the
participants and do not reflect the
views of Northern Beaches Council.
In today's episode, Maria chats with
Shiva, a fellow member of the We Belong
Intercultural Community Leaders
Programme, where this podcast started.
Shiva talks about her journey to
Australia, her Baha'i
faith, making a home and finding
community on the Northern Beaches.
[Maria] I'm here with Shiva, with one of our other
team members from the We Belong Project.
Thank you for being here.
[Shiva] Thank you for inviting me.
[Maria] It's lovely to have you.
And we just had a really nice conversation
about our experience through this
We Belong project and
concluding that we should have more
of these conversations and time spent.
[Shiva] That's right.
Yes.
I think
that was a success story for me being
involved with the We Belong project
and the friendships we've made
and the learnings.
Very grateful to Council
for allowing us to have this space.
[Maria] Yes.
So hopefully we're going
to continue on some level.
So let's start with some
quick fire questions, and then we will
dive into a more deeper and
more serious conversation.
Let's see.
Let's go with Manly or Palm Beach?
[Shiva] Oh, Manly.
[Maria] Beach or Bush?
[Shiva] Beach.
[Maria] Beach.
It's really hard not to say
beach when you live on the
Northern Beaches.
[Shiva] For sure.
[Maria] B-line or ferry?
[Shiva] B-line.
[Maria] Warringah Mall or Warriewood Square?
[Shiva] Warriewood Square.
It's funny because I used to work there.
[Maria] I know that there are some markets.
[Shiva] Warringah Mall, though.
[Maria] Coffee or tea?
[Shiva] That's a tough one.
I love both, but coffee.
[Maria] Early bird or night owl?
[Shiva] Early bird.
[Maria] Emu or kangaroo?
[Maria] Kangaroo.
Because as a child, the only thing I knew
of Australia was the kangaroos.
[Maria] One thing that you can't live without?
[Shiva] Probably my phone and then my hair dryer.
[Maria] Interesting.
What's your go-to comfort food?
[Shiva] Probably pizza.
[Maria] Summer or winter?
[Shiva] Summer.
[Maria] Sweet or savoury?
[Shiva] Again, that's a tough one.
I like both, but I would say sweet.
[Maria] Do you have a favourite coffee
shop on the Northern Beaches?
[Shiva] Yes, Flour Child.
That's one of my favourites.
[Maria] Whereabouts is that?
[Shiva] I do have other ones, but I
think that was the one that...
I like the decor.
There's one in Warringah Mall,
but there's one in Chatswood.
I don't know if there are
other ones around
Sydney.
But yeah.
[Maria] It's a franchise, it sounds like. Is it?
[Shiva] Well, I know there's two of them.
[Maria] Okay.
Yeah.
City life or countryside?
[Shiva] City life.
Just used to it, I guess.
[Maria] What's your favourite way
to relax after a long day?
[Shiva] I would say just having a cup of tea,
usually with my husband, having chats, and
probably watching a favourite show.
[Maria] Favourite spot on the Northern Beaches?
[Shiva] I'm a little bit biassed with that one
because it's Bahá'í temple
since I'm a Bahá'í.
[Maria] Nice.
[Shiva] Yeah.
So I feel when I go there, it's
very serene, very peaceful.
I can connect with my creator.
[Maria] It's in a very beautiful spot.
[Shiva] Thank you.
[Maria] It is.
[Shiva] And it's open to everywhere.
[Maria] It's good to know.
All right, then.
Let's go and get to know you a bit better.
Can you tell me a little bit about
yourself, about your background
and journey to Australia?
[Shiva] Sure.
Well, by birth, I was born in Iran.
I am from the Bahá'í faith.
I was born into the faith,
and I had to escape
my country when I was 14 because the
Bahá'í faith is not recognised in Iran.
They persecute the Baháʼís,
they confiscate their property.
Kids can't go to school.
You can't work because there's
always a religion column,
and when they know that you're from
your background is Baháʼí, you can't work.
So you have to make ends
meet however you can.
And that was the challenging part.
Just to survive.
And even though physically, we weren't
harmed like some other friends
or people that we knew.
But psychologically, it was very damaging.
And my parents decided at the end that
they're going to take their two daughters
and go somewhere that we can have freedom
to work and study and have a better life.
Freedom, really.
[Maria] And that was in 1984?
[Shiva] Yes.
It was 1984.
So I don't know how much you want to know
about the journey, but we had
to escape from the border of Pakistan.
And partly was about seven or eight
hours on camels, which was quite hard.
Beautiful animals.
And we went to Dubai
lately for a trip, a holiday.
And my son wanted to experience it.
So we booked a tour with the camels.
And it's just brought back
so much memory of that time.
And
he was grateful, and my husband, and they
also experienced what it's like to be..
And it was a brief one, whereas
seven or eight hours on a camel's back.
It's quite gruelling.
[Maria] I bet it was a different experience.
They were doing it for-
[Shiva] Dangerous experience.
[Maria] Yes.
So they were doing it for fun
and as tourists, as to you.
[Shiva] Yes.
[Maria] You did it for seven, eight hours.
And knowing that
the journey ahead of you and knowing that
you're not probably not
going to come turn back.
[Shiva] Turn back.
But also we didn't know if we're going to
get caught by the military,
the Islamic guards.
They could kill us, put us in jail.
Who knows?
And also the rest of the
journey was in a car.
But it was, again, very long
travel until we got to cross the border.
And thankfully, we arrived at a UN centre
in Pakistan, and they
helped us a lot to find a place to stay.
And eventually,
we were in hostels and short stays.
After seven months, we got accepted to
come to Australia by the
Australian government.
And that was
the best thing that could have happened
to us, because we didn't have family.
We didn't know anyone here, friends.
It was just purely humanitarian reasons
that they accepted us as refugees.
[Maria] So just going back to the journey,
were there any other families involved
in this trip, or just your little family?
[Shiva] Just our little family.
No one else.
No one else with us.
And that's why it was even more dangerous.
Because anything could have happened
to us, and no one would know.
No one would know because my other
family were overseas already.
And distant families,
we weren't communicating with them anyway,
so they wouldn't have known
because they were really distant.
[Maria] So the extended family,
you left behind in Iran?
[Shiva] Yes.
Most of my family were
out anyways at that time.
My uncle and his family.
[Maria] Do you still have family there?
[Shiva] In Iran?
[Maria] Yes.
[Shiva] Not really.
Again, we hardly...
Distant family.
They all left.
We hardly...
Distant family.
They all left, yeah.
[Maria] Yeah.
So you were accepted by Australia?
[Shiva] Yes.
For Australia, we weren't fussed
where we go.
We were so happy that
we're in a free country.
And we asked them, "you send us
to where you think we should be."
We didn't have any criteria.
And they sent us to Perth.
[Maria] Nice.
[Shiva] A lovely city.
Beautiful experience there.
But some of the challenges
I experience because the teenage
years are trying as it is anyways.
You're going through a change of
hormones and all that going on.
And so it's a challenging time anyways.
But then you're in a new country,
you don't know English,
you have to go to school.
You can't communicate
with the teens in your class.
I also had to go a year or two,
even, a year below to learn English.
So I wasn't even with my age group.
So yeah, finding
friends was difficult.
I got there eventually, but those years,
the first couple of years, were
challenging for me and for my parents
because they had to work, try to learn
English, and try to find a job, jobs that
weren't really
the jobs they were doing back in Iran.
My dad was in the Air Force.
My mum was an
PA executive, personal assistant
to a CEO in the
company she was working at.
So they had good jobs.
But then you have to do
whatever you can to survive.
So I remember those years being
challenging, but the
positive side was the freedom that we
could attend our Bahá'í classes or just
be free to go to school and to have a job.
[Maria] And you finished high school in Perth?
[Shiva] I did, yes.
I did do my high school there.
Life happened and I ended up in Sydney
after four years, nearly.
So since 1989, the end of
'89, I moved to Sydney.
And in Northern Beaches,
I've been for 29 years.
Before that, I moved around
a bit. North Sydney and Sans
Soucis, like different areas of Sydney.
But I ended up in Northern
Beaches, and I loved it.
I really love Northern Beaches.
I think it's beautiful.
And wherever you go, you either
end up near a beach or a lake.
I feel like, and I always say this, "we go
away on holidays, we come back,
and it feels like you're still on holiday.
[Maria] Yeah.
That's when you probably realise that
you live in a very -
[Shiva] Yes, very lucky to be where we are.
[Maria] Yes.
So you were saying that the first few
years were challenging, but also at
the same time you had the freedom.
Did you feel that back then, that
that in Australia, you have more freedom?
It's challenging, but do
you have the freedom of...
[Shiva] Well, certainly.
I feel like people are free to express
their opinions and live their life.
Sometimes I feel
like if you're talking about belonging, it
could be that my name sounds different.
I have an accent.
So sometimes you get a reaction like that.
People say, when I say where I'm from,
from Iran, they comment, "Oh,
but you don't look Iranian."
So there is obviously an image of
what an Iranian should look like.
Or it's followed
by like they're smiling.
And then when I say from Iran, there's
like a little bit of a drop in the tone,
or they feel like, they look like they're
contemplating a bit more
I don't know.
I feel like they're thinking about this,
where I'm from, which I'm used to it.
And sometimes there are people from
my country who, there's a group who says
I'm Persian, then there's a group who
says I'm Iranian, depending on what you
have affiliation with or...
Persian is the culture.
It's old, and old
civilization that everyone relates to.
Whereas Iran is the more
recent, modern country of Iran.
Unfortunately, in the media, there's so
much negative news about Iran,
that people, that I feel like people are
they're a bit shy or reserved
to say they're from Iran.
I'm happy with either: Persian, Iranian.
[Maria] But if somebody asks you to introduce
yourself and talk about your background.
[Shiva] I generally say I'm Persian.
That's what I'm used to.
I was born in Iran.
But also, generally, soon after that, I
say that I'm also from the Bahá'í faith
because there's that, I guess,
assumption that...
Which is wrong.
I also think it's wrong to assume
anyone who's from a Muslim background,
there's a stigma attached to that.
I don't agree with that.
But at the same time, I feel like
I have to explain my background.
Sometimes I say it because of my belief,
because I believe in unity and diversity.
I believe that
we're all as I said in my...
What was it?
My bio in the
intercultural project, the booklet.
"The world is but one country and mankind
its citizens."
That's the motto I live by.
And that's a writing by the Prophet
founder of the Baháʼí
faith, who's Baháʼu'lláh.
And I want to share that with others, that
everything we do is towards that goal.
[Maria] Beautiful.
[Shiva] But I've been lucky, though.
I can't say I've experienced a lot of
prejudice because I guess I don't look
Persian, but then I know a lot of friends
or family members who have been subject to, I
guess, subtle forms of racism.
Sometimes it's not very
much in your face, but then you
feel a little bit of that going on.
[Maria] So just moving to Northern Beaches.
Has this move shaped your experience of
finding freedom and faith?
Do you feel that you
belong to Northern Beaches?
[Shiva] Mostly, yes.
I feel because...
Well, the Baháʼí temple is in Northern
Beaches, and I feel very
privileged being close to it.
When I go there, we see people
from different nationalities.
There's Baháʼís from all over
the world who visit the temple.
In a way, I'm used to seeing
people from different backgrounds.
Sometimes I feel in the neighbourhoods,
I wonder if you have a different
name or accent or whatever, people
are a little bit hesitant to interact.
I'll give you an example.
I feel like my husband,
if we're texting in our neighbourhood
WhatsApp, he might get more
responses than I would.
I don't know why, but
it's just an observation.
I don't know.
Coincidental?
I guess in terms of belonging, I feel
there needs to be more interactions
with neighbours.
If I'm comparing it to back in Iran,
kids played outside and
mums and dads were chit-chatting with each
other until dinner time, and it was safe.
So that's my experience growing up.
But then here everyone's just…
It could be that just times have changed.
People are busy working, studying,
and there are just electric garages.
They go in.
So the only time we see each other is
when you're doing the lawn or
doing the bins, which is a shame.
I feel, I wish that there will be more
neighbourhood gatherings
like we did with the intercultural,
but the whole street get-together.
And we've tried.
In my neighbourhood, we've tried and we've
had
I don't know, Christmas parties, say, or
Christmas in July or other
times where we got together.
But I just feel like people are just so busy at work.
[Maria] Busy with life.
[Shiva] Busy with life.
[Maria] And rushing through life.
[Shiva] And lonely.
I think...
I don't know, but I get the sense that
there's a lot of loneliness out
there, but we don't know about.
And my wish is somehow we could address
all that through
knowing each other, getting together.
[Maria] Was having the Baháʼí temple on the
Northern Beaches that you mentioned
earlier, was that one of the reasons
that you moved to the Northern Beaches?
[Shiva] Interestingly, no.
It was just -
we were just looking in the area because
we had heard so much about the area.
But what made us
be in this house. I went upstairs and I
went into the balcony
and I could see the Baháʼí temple,
the dome from the upstairs balcony.
And I said, "Oh, this is a sign.
This is a sign."
[Maria] This is where I'm going to see every day.
[Shiva] So that was like a, what is it?
Good omen or something.
But then it happened to be, what is it?
Half an hour, 20 minutes to get to the temple.
[Maria] And can I ask you about...
You mentioned earlier that you married
an Irish-English man.
[Shiva] Yes.
Well, he's born in London.
But my in-laws, they have both passed away.
They're from Ireland.
And he certainly thinks himself
as Irish with Irish culture.
[Maria] And what has that been like blending cultures.
[Shiva] Yes.
[Maria] How was that?
[Shiva] And interestingly, it's very similar,
apparently, Irish and Persian culture.
We all love our teas,
black tea with no milk.
And also music.
It sounds like we're into music, folk
music, all sorts of different music.
It's a big part of the culture.
[Maria] Interesting. Culture.
[Shiva] Yes.
I don't know if you've heard
this latest song by Ed Sheeran.
It's making big waves on the radios.
[Maria] Tell me more about this.
[Shiva] Azizam.
[Maria] Oh, yes.
[Shiva] Well, Azizam means my dear or my love.
In Persian.
[Maria] In Persian.
[Shiva] Yeah.
And that's been such a good thing
for a lot of Persians because
it's something positive.
It's a beautiful thing.
[Maria] And it's being embraced by-
[Shiva] Yes, everyone.
[Maria] A very famous singer.
[Shiva] Or more than that, it's just a celebration
of our culture, not in a negative way.
It's a positive thing.
[Maria] Exactly.
[Shiva] It's been a good thing.
[Maria] And have you seen any change from
when you were a teenager
and now you have a teenage son?
Have you seen any change in the community?
[Shiva] Good question.
I thought about that, actually.
But certainly, I know with my son, and
he's quite,
again, being raised in a Baháʼí family,
he sees everyone as
a human being who deserves respect.
It's no different.
Just because you look different doesn't
mean he's better than them because of
colour of skin or the
type of hair you have.
And he's got friends from
all different nationalities.
He's got friends from
Vietnamese background, Australian,
Egyptian, I don't know, like
different types of nationalities.
And it's funny.
I think he even...
I don't think he tries so hard.
It's just the way he is.
I think people probably gravitate towards
him because he's so welcoming
and understanding and
just the way he treats them, I guess.
They like to be his friend.
But as far as schools
go, they do champion inclusion,
diversity and inclusion.
Yeah.
I think all schools
could do with a programme like
that, encouraging that inclusivity.
[Maria] That's pretty good to hear.
[Shiva] Yeah.
And I think there was a Have Your Say Day
by the high school students,
the captains, a few days ago.
And it's amazing what the young kids come
up with in in terms of
what the issues are in the Northern
Beaches, such as loneliness or
social media or other challenges
they face. Public transport.
[Maria] That's a big one too.
[Shiva] Yes.
So, they have really good ideas.
And I think the
local government and
communities, they need to listen
to them because that's the future.
They know what they want, and
they need to be empowered to make changes.
And that's, I guess, one of the other
things that
I believe, which, again, is linked to
my faith, is this community building.
And that's why I joined
the Intercultural Project.
Because unless you start from families and
in your neighbourhoods, we have no chance.
There's lots of festivals or multicultural
get-togethers and events, which is great.
It still brings people together.
But I feel like it needs to be more from
grassroots,
from individuals in their neighbourhoods,
in their schools, trying to
work towards this goal of unity.
And unity doesn't mean uniformity.
We all have our own cultures, customs.
It doesn't mean you have to lose that.
[Maria] Exactly.
[Shiva] And that's why I don't
believe in tolerance.
I don't believe in assimilation, because
that means you're giving up
something to become something else.
It's everyone to live together in harmony.
Really.
And at the end of it, I think it's those
education, spiritual
education, as well as material.
We're all very good at material education.
I mean, you may not think of it as spiritual.
I don't know.
You may not believe in any religion
or God or anything, but morality.
What's right, what's wrong,
how you treat others, what's that golden rule?
Treat others the way
you want to be treated.
I mean, really, that's the bottom line.
[Maria] Yeah.
[Shiva] You need
to feel for your neighbours or feel
for the person who is
lonely or doesn't have a roof over their head.
Why is that happening?
We're not having
discussions on that, the root cause of it.
We're all very good at dealing with it.
Okay, let's do a homeless shed.
And there's nothing wrong with that.
But then why is this happening?
That's the conversation
I think we need to have.
[Maria] Yes.
[Shiva] From the ground up, from our
families, teaching our kids.
[Maria] Yes, exactly.
That's what I wanted to go back when you
were saying that everything starts in
a family and how the kids are raised.
And yes, from families to schools to
bigger communities, we need to
stop and listen and share stories.
And thank you again for
joining us and doing this.
[Shiva] My pleasure.
No, thank you.
And I've learned a lot
through this project that we did
with the Council and very grateful
to be a part of it.
[Maria] I feel that every story counts
and every story matters.
And just educating each other and
educating ourselves and being open..
I think this project was a really
good start of doing that.
[Shiva] Absolutely.
[Maria] And how do you see the future generations
in multicultural Australia?
[Shiva] I have a lot of hope.
There are programmes that are
run by the Baháʼí community.
It's been going on for some years.
And we like to introduce this concept of
what it means to be human.
How you treat others, as I said before,
through studying,
reflecting, and then acting.
So, service is a big part of
these educational initiatives.
So it's not just tick the box.
I've done this
book or training or whatever.
Then you have to go into the community
and then you do your service.
However, it may end up in terms of
what's needed in your community, whether
it's visiting the elderly, nursing homes.
Really, you need to read the reality of
your neighbourhood, reality of your
community, and see what's needed,
and just serve in that way.
[Maria] Be there for them.
[Shiva] Be there for them.
And there are various things.
Like, the reality in Northern Beaches,
it's not lack of education, because we
have the best schools and
being the country we are, that's not a
problem, certainly in Northern Beaches.
But then, loneliness might be,
or connections, or racism, for instance.
Again, I haven't.. I have been lucky.
I haven't had that experience.
But then I wonder
how we can eliminate racism.
[Maria] Thank you.
That was a very
useful conversation to have
and I think more people should
have. We need to be open
to share and to listen.
[Shiva] Thank you. I just am so happy that I
am in Australia. I must say
one of the highlights of my life was
when I became an Australian citizen.
Like I was given the best prize ever or
something, and
I don't regret being here at all.
I love every opportunity I've been given.
And yeah, beautiful country to be.
[Maria] Beautiful.
And we have to be grateful.
And we have to stop
and admire the nature, beautiful
nature, beautiful beaches, the sky.
[Shiva] I know.
I'm getting emotional.
[Maria] That's all right.
And I think the people as well.
[Shiva] Yes, absolutely.
The people make a huge difference.
[Maria] Thank you.
[Shiva] We're all the same.
And I loved how you phrase
it, that we are all humans.
[Shiva] Yes.
[Maria] And that should be the
focus of everyone.
[Shiva] What is it.. if you have any part of your
body that hurts, it affects the
rest of your body, doesn't it?
The body can't function
if your arm is hurt or your leg is broken.
So, same thing.
I think with humanity, it's the same.
If people are suffering in some other
parts of the world, it does affect you,
even though you don't realise it,
but indirectly, it does affect you.
And the world is getting so much smaller,
like it feels like because of the Internet and
everything, technology, it's
just become smaller and smaller.
And something's going to happen.
We can't just ignore what's going on.
I want to say fight.
But fight is not a good word.
It's not positive, but certainly, do
our best to bring humanity together.
[Maria] That's a beautiful way
to end this conversation.
Thank you.
[Shiva] Thank you so much, Maria.
[Maria] Thank you Shiva, for being here.
[Ending] Everyone has a story to share.
The next time you see someone you don't
know in your neighbourhood,
be curious, say hello.
You may be surprised to hear
the story they have to tell.
We hope you have enjoyed this podcast.
Leave a review, listen to another episode,
or contact us to share your story.