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A weekly show from the folks at East Lansing Info breaking down all the news and happenings in East Lansing, Michigan.
WDBM East Lansing.
Introduction:This is East Lansing insider brought to you by ELI on impact eighty nine FM. In this show, we break down all of the news and happenings in the East Lansing community. And now, today's East Lansing insider.
Anna Liz Nichols:Hello, everybody. I'm East Lansing info's deputy editor, Anna Liz Nichols, and today we're having a conversation with the president of the NAACP Lansing branch, Harold Pope. The NAACP, which stands for the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, is the oldest civil rights organization in The United States. And given February's Black History Month, Harold Pope is going to share a bit about the organization's history and how it operates today. So Mister Pope, can you tell me a little bit about what the NAACP does in the Greater Lansing area and how it began?
Harold Pope:Yeah. So my name is Harold Pope. I'm the president of the NAACP Lansing branch. The NAACP is the nation's oldest and largest civil rights organization. It was founded in nineteen o nine, and the Lansing branch was founded in 1919.
Harold Pope:And we are, an organization that is focused on completely eliminating racism and discrimination wherever it exists. We address it. We work for, to eliminate injustice and fight for equality of of everyone. So where a lot of people think we're just for blacks, African Americans, but understand that if we can get equal justice, if we can get equality for blacks, then we can achieve that for everyone.
Anna Liz Nichols:What have been some of the notable works of the n? And I apologize. I think I said NAACP, and I have heard that it's it's more appropriate to say NAACP. Is that correct?
Harold Pope:There is no difference. NAACP spells the same as n double a c p. Yeah. You know, there are people who will joke about it, and say, oh, they can't even spell NAACP. Mhmm.
Harold Pope:But you will you will hear it used interchangeably and and, I don't take offense, and I don't think many other people would take offense. And those that do are probably more joking than anything else. So you're you're fine. As long as you get all the letters.
Anna Liz Nichols:You gotta get them right.
Harold Pope:We have been called the NAACP or NAACPP. Yeah. Those are are not what we are, but NAACP or NAACP, are easily interchangeable.
Anna Liz Nichols:Yeah. Well, for those people that might be a little less acquainted with what the NAACP does, would have been some of the the movements or works that they've been associated with in the Greater Lansing area either in the in the decades it's existed or even in recent years that people have seen?
Harold Pope:So thank you. The the NAACP locally, the Lansing branch, again, we we are a a mirror. We're a branch of a national organization. And, again, we fight for equality. We one of our most notable instance here in the Lansing area is that, I believe, it was back in 1972, the Lansing branch sued the, Lansing school district, forcing them to make adjustments to accommodate minorities, and and provide equal education and services to minorities.
Harold Pope:Today, we, just as we were in the past, we have multiple committees, and so we we focus our efforts on political action. We focus our efforts on health. We focus our efforts on membership. We also focus on, legal redress and criminal justice along with a myriad of other things. We do have committees focused on, for veterans.
Harold Pope:So, you know, we we have a broad spectrum of the things that we do. We have put on health fairs. We have put on job fairs. We have, during Juneteenth, we will have a huge resource and career fair, on that day. And so we will have, organizations, companies out there looking for resources, looking to hire.
Harold Pope:Mhmm. We've done health fairs that focus on sickle cell anemia and, health that affects health concerns that affect, blacks directly a disproportionate numbers. So we're we're engaged. We we, we do as much as we can for the community with the with the members that we have.
Anna Liz Nichols:Mhmm. That's interesting to hear considering, I think, plenty of people's interactions with the NAACP that maybe aren't the most aware of what it does. I think we'd figure that the NAACP focuses on on in terms racial injustice. And so it's interesting for you to talk about, you know, that exists in in other fields other than
Harold Pope:Just civil rights or just Yeah.
Anna Liz Nichols:It's about health care health care, veteran services. You'd mentioned education.
Harold Pope:Yeah. We give out we give out scholarships every year and that's not a primary focus of NAACP, but the local branch here and other branches around the world, they understand the importance of the youth and so that is one of the things that that we have been intentional about is is to bring, the youth into the organization to recognize the youth and provide them with additional resources as they pursue higher education. I I I'll come back to that. So I don't know if I mentioned that, you know, we were founded in in nineteen o nine. There are over 2,300 units of the NAACP throughout the nation.
Harold Pope:Wow. And you're gonna ask me how long have I been the president. I am I've been serving as president for three years. This is my fourth year. Mhmm.
Harold Pope:The terms are two years each, and so so I'm halfway through my second term as president.
Anna Liz Nichols:Is there anything that you've done as president that you're particularly proud of or or an experience you've had during your presidency that sticks out to you?
Harold Pope:Absolutely. So as a president, these last three years and even before as president so let let me back up. So my I've been been a part of the organization for decades. Mhmm. My mother was the president of the Albany, New York branch for over twenty years, and she served an additional twenty plus years as an officer for the state.
Harold Pope:And so I've been engaged in the NAACP for many years. I've been to many national conventions. But going to the national convention as a president, as a member of the Lansing branch here recently, it's been more enlightening for me and more engaging. Many of the tools that they teach and provide for us, many of the the connections that I receive from from the national organization as well as other local branches, and branches throughout the nation has has been uplifting for me, encouraging for me, and I'm able to come back and share those experiences, share that knowledge with other members here, that that that are not able or aren't participating at a national level. So those are some of the biggest things for me.
Harold Pope:Another one is recently, with the concerns we have in East Lansing with with with, police chief Brown and her comments about a disproportionate number of minorities and the the welcome back, the welcome weekend issues where two young African American males were were, in my opinion, assaulted by a police officer who pepper sprayed him in the face unnecessarily at an unsafe distance. One of the things that that that I I found enjoyable about the role I'm playing is that I believe the NAACP had a part in in helping get those charges dropped against those two young men. So so it's a wide range of things. I've I've, you know, I've also had light in participating at the national convention with our youth and seeing them get inspired. So as many things, that the NAACP has for everyone, but those are some of the key points for me.
Anna Liz Nichols:Talking about what you just discussed with the the current state of affairs in East Lansing. For the last several city council meetings and and other other city meetings in the in in East Lansing, you and other members of our community have vehemently articulated the need for change in how we call for accountability in in policing and from leadership. It's it's it wasn't simply relegated to East Lansing police chief, Jen Brown. There's also been calls for city council, our elected leaders, to to decry violence against minority groups. I was wondering in terms of your outlook for the future, what other actions might be taken by the NAACP or or community members that wanna see a change in in in culture in East Lansing?
Anna Liz Nichols:Where do we go from here? Because it it's just week after week after week, you and other members of the community come to the city council, and I I I don't know how effective that you feel that is if if you're being heard.
Harold Pope:Yeah. Thank you. I I I would like to think that we're heard. The the problem is are we gonna get a reaction that we're satisfied with? Mhmm.
Harold Pope:So I I think we're being heard. I talked to the mayor. I talked to councilman Grigsby. I sat there and listened to council member, sing, and I initially couldn't get a meeting with the mayor. And just before this, my email exchange is solidified that we have a meeting next week.
Harold Pope:I don't know if that's gonna make a difference in the end, but I'm going to have a chance to have conversation. So you asked what the NAACP, should do. This is what we should do is we should continue to make our concerns known so that we have every opportunity for them to be properly addressed by those in authority. And so we will continue to have our ass. We will continue to drive.
Harold Pope:We will continue to evaluate these statistics for use of force and engagement between police and minorities in East Lansing, and we will continue to challenge city council and the East Lansing Police Department to fix those things that are wrong. Their use of force data, their response to resistance, data shows that this their contact is disproportionately high higher with minorities than it is with the with the with the overall composition of the community, which is largely white males. Those numbers are telling there was a report that was done in 2024 and it was just presented a few months ago that said the same thing. It talks about the way the data is is collected, but in the end, the data still shows there should be some concern, there should be some focus, there should be cons some consideration of what can be done differently to fix the way the numbers are coming out. So so you look at the nasty Facebook posts about whether they're not lying, the data doesn't lie, the data is manipulated by the efforts and focus by the police force.
Harold Pope:If the police only focus on African Americans, then the data's gonna continue to show African Americans in those situations. And that is not the case. It's been proven not just here, but nationally. And so, you know, NAACP along with other citizens are pushing and demand that those be addressed. So you saw, here recently, one one citizen organization, Systems for Justice, they posted a billboard that that only amplifies the failure in communication by chief Brown.
Harold Pope:And so those are the things that the community, civilians can do to keep pressuring city council, the police department to make some adjustments.
Anna Liz Nichols:Something that I've always thought was interesting just because I I covered it was back in 2020 with all the George Floyd protests, George Floyd being the the the man that was murdered in Minneapolis by police in in 2020. I think on a national scale, people would think of Detroit when they think of of the George Floyd protest, but I know that Lansing had vocal, vocal engagement in that conversation, and so did East Lansing, especially because we there was a a case of of believed police brutality that didn't come too long before Yeah.
Harold Pope:Mhmm. Yeah.
Anna Liz Nichols:East Lansing and Lansing and the Greater Lansing area are not immune from these national discussions on on police brutality, on on racial injustice. Given East Lansing and Lansing, Greater Lansing area's engagement on in the in that social movement, and now not that that conversation ever stopped, not that that's when that conversation began, but given that we're having a renewed conversation about policing, about government accountability when it comes to these topics, are you hopeful that, you know, engagement in this, that there will be engagement in this? I know students from MSU have been coming to these city council meetings. Are you optimistic that this might spur something, might spur change?
Harold Pope:Well, I'm prayerful that there will be change. I, you mentioned, twenty twenty. You mentioned enjoy George Floyd, murder in the marches. I can tell you the NAACP was active, in fact, on a at a state level. The youth and college division of the NAACP came to Lansing in March.
Harold Pope:The Lansing NAACP helped facilitate the permits and all the things involved, the logistics of that happening. And so, again, that's just another area where the NAACP Lansing, has engaged. But to the hope and prayers, the youth led that march. The youth of the NAACP led that march. And so that's where I'm hopeful is that the youth will reengaged and will participate at a much higher level to keep things going.
Harold Pope:I won't be here forever. I won't be here. I don't imagine I'll be here in the next thirty years for sure. They will be, and hopefully, will continue. This is Black History Month coming up, and that's important.
Harold Pope:It's important that, particularly in today's environment, that we celebrate Black History Month, that we amplify things like Black History Month and Juneteenth because we have a White House, we have an administration that is focused on eliminating, rewriting, and erasing the facts the facts about black history black history in America. American history is or black history is American history. We are a huge part of what makes America America. And to remove, to rewrite, or to eliminate it is unacceptable. We cannot tolerate it.
Harold Pope:We cannot stand for it. We cannot allow it to happen.
Anna Liz Nichols:This is probably the first black history month, the second the second in his admission.
Harold Pope:Oh, the second term? Yes. This I I would say I would say I would say it's the second because he went in he went in the office hot. And so so there were things that he did last year to try to diminish. He you know, you you look, the federal government under his order is removing names like Harriet Tubman, names like General Colin Powell.
Harold Pope:How do you how do you remove those names? They were they were real people. Those are real activities that occurred. Juneteenth I mean, we have a very petty president. How petty?
Harold Pope:Martin Luther King Day, like every other national holiday, park interest was free. It's very small, but the pettiness of it is that he removed it, this Martin Luther King holiday. But his birthday his birthday, park entrance was free. That's petty. You you have arguably the most powerful man in the world.
Harold Pope:So petty, so narcissistic that we're all at risk. He has a potential to be the greatest president, but he's performing as the worst president. And we've been through things. So, you know, you know, for the NAACP, we will tell people, don't get discouraged. We've been through some stuff, and we're gonna get through this.
Harold Pope:We will get through this. So and we need to continue our push, we need to all get out and vote during these midterm elections. Do not let this pass by. Do not make the mistake that was made in the national election last year excuse me, the year before.
Anna Liz Nichols:So we're one year into the Trump administration. And like you said, we have a midterm election in Michigan this November. We're gonna be voting in a new governor, AG, secretary of state, other statewide offices. I was wondering from a a local perspective, a MidMichigan perspective, Greater Lansing, what has the impact been palpably of the Trump administration, and what are some of your hopes for this midterm election?
Harold Pope:Well, you know, the the Trump effect is widespread and horrible. People are doing things that they wouldn't normally do. They're coming to the front. Like I said, you you look at some of these posts and you somebody who you knew, but you didn't know how strongly they felt about immigration and minorities and white supremacy. And today, you're seeing it.
Harold Pope:And so you look at, unfortunately, East Lansing, those actions seem to be straight out of the playbook. Their response is straight out of what will be considered the White House playbook. Right? Deny. Deny.
Harold Pope:Deny. I know you see it with your eyes, but that's not what really happened. You know, we had two murders here recently and you know, with ICE agents and, you know, the government. The NAT from the White House, national representatives of the government are telling you that those people that they shot and killed were domestic terrorists. And those are the same people who would tell you that the insurrection on January 6 was not an insurrection and those were peaceful protesters.
Harold Pope:We we see it and we have to stand up and fight it because if we don't, we will be overrun by the ignorance of what's going on. And so here in in the Greater Lansing area, we need to stay diligent. We need to stay focused. We need to hold our head up and not feel defeated because that is the effort is that we feel defeated and we give up. We continue to fight.
Harold Pope:We continue to push. We get out and vote. We don't sit back like we did, again, at that last national election, but this time we get out and vote and we put people in office who will stand up to the president and will push back and fight him at every turn and demand that their counterparts across the aisle do exactly the same.
Anna Liz Nichols:Given that the NAACP is a historic institution in this country, given its historical roots, its involvement in our nation's history, our state's history, our local history here in Mid Michigan. I was wondering as the president of such an organization, how important is Black History Month this year given, you know, all the context you've just given and what are your hopes for, you know, how it might be recognized, how people might hold that this year?
Harold Pope:Yes. So Black History Month is important every year because it's a reminder, it upholds the understanding of the contributions of blacks, African Americans to the history of America. And so, yes, there's emphasis this year on it with with the current White House administration making every effort to erase it. And so, again, we need to, at a minimum, continue to celebrate Black History Month as we did in the past, but even stronger this year, again, to help amplify and help remind people of the contributions of blacks here in America. Well, people always should know that they can always become a member.
Harold Pope:They can always participate. The more people, the more minds will help us do even greater things. And so you can always go to our website, nacplansing.org. We we have our meetings the first Sunday of every month. They tend to be, hybrid both in person and Zoom.
Harold Pope:There's sometimes we do them just Zoom and sometimes we do them just in person. But we we are out here. We are doing our best. We have our freedom fund dinner coming up in October. The freedom fund dinner is our annual fundraiser, and so it is it is a a high profile event on behalf of the branch, and there are many across the state and the greater Lansing area that come and participate.
Harold Pope:It is a time to celebrate the past successes of the branch and the organization and to also sow into the future efforts of the organization. I I I can't emphasize enough. We're we're we're nonpartisan organization, and so we're not pushing for any particular candidate or platform, but we are human centric. We we are focused on equal rights. And if those are things that people believe in, if you believe in justice for all, then we're an organization that you should align with and participate with.
Anna Liz Nichols:Thank you so much, mister Pope. I've so appreciated this conversation. It's so interesting to hear that you've been involved in this, like, your whole life because of your mom.
Harold Pope:Oh, yeah. Yeah. One of my favorite, national conventions was, I was stationed in Korea. And and so my I have a, uncle in Saginaw, John Pugh. And everybody in in Saginaw knows him, and he's he, like my mom, very engaged in the NAACP both locally and nationally.
Harold Pope:And so my two sons, at this particular year, my oldest son had spent the summer with him. What timing was that I was coming back from Korea off my assignment at the same time that the national convention was in LA. And so I routed my return flight to take me through LA. And so I, so my timing, national convention LA, I went to the host hotel where the the conference was. Literally, as I pulled into the driveway of the hotel, my son and his cousin were walking right in front of me.
Harold Pope:And so timing couldn't be better coming all the way from Korea. I I catch up with my family at the national convention and spend time with them before before repatriating back to The US or fully repatriating. So beautiful organization, a lot to learn, a lot to understand, and, I'm looking forward to our upcoming national convention in in, in July. Yeah. No.
Harold Pope:Thank you, and good luck.
Anna Liz Nichols:Thank you. And and happy, by the time this comes out, happy Black History Month.
Harold Pope:Thank you.
Speaker 2:East Lansing Insider is brought to you by ELI on Impact eighty nine FM. We are on the web at eastlansinginfo.news and impact89fm.org. Thanks for listening.