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Product Marketing Adventures is the only PMM show that goes beyond theory and into the real execution of product marketing. In each episode, experienced product marketers co-host two segments of the show: first a case study example of their work, followed by a messaging critique of companies we admire. Listeners enjoy a fun conversation packed with practical guidance to leverage in your product marketing career.
There's a concept in
behavioral economics
called the status quo bias.
It basically says this, people
would rather stick to what
they know, even when there
are better options, and that's
because change feels risky.
The pain of potentially
losing something is
stronger than the potential.
To gain something better.
Okay, so what does that have
to do with product marketing?
Well, even if your product
is faster, better, or
more efficient, your
customers could still
resist the move because
they don't want to change.
There's that pain of
potentially losing something.
So part of our jobs as product
marketers is to convince
people that the change is
worth it, that the future
is better than the present.
So how do you actually do
all that at scale across
your entire customer base?
Today we're breaking down
one of the hardest motions
in product marketing, making
a behavior change to a new,
product and driving adoption.
And I could not think of
a better person to walk us
through this than Keith Blaik.
Keith has spent over 13 years,
driving growth across SaaS
and financial services in
both B2B and B2C, connecting
go-to-market strategy,
acquisition, product adoption,
and lifecycle growth.
All without ever formally
holding the PMM title at
GoFundMe Pro, formerly classy.
He was the first customer
at marketing hire.
Helping scale the
function through Series
D acquisition and a major
product transformation.
And during that time, the
platform grew from 1 billion
to $2.6 billion in annual
non-profit donation volume.
And now he's here to
share his playbook.
Keith, I'm so excited
for this conversation.
Welcome to the show.
Thank you, Elle.
It's, uh, great to be here
and I appreciate the kind
intro and you inviting
me on, even if I've never
formally had the PMM title.
So it's a, it's a real treat.
Hey, with the work that you've
been doing and the expertise
that you've been driving,
you are our honorary PMM,
and let's be real at mo.
Most organizations, a
lot of that work would
be a product marketer's
job anyway, so, okay.
Let's dive right in.
I can't imagine anyone
would not know this, but
maybe just to get everyone
on the same page, like
what is GoFundMe Pro?
I'm sure.
Everybody has probably
used GoFundMe, or at
least seen it before,
but what is GoFundMe Pro?
Yeah, no, great question.
'cause it's, it's new, about
a little less than a year old,
um, or at least by the time
we're recording this, but most
simply, GoFundMe Pro is the
B2B software side of GoFundMe.
And so prior to being
acquired by GoFundMe and
rebranding last May, the
company was called Class.
Classy was a nonprofit
fundraising platform
based in San Diego.
And so as we continue and
to keep things simple,
I'm gonna use the word
classy, particularly because
that's the, was included
in the product name.
and also kind of ground us in
the moment at the time of the
case study we're discussing.
But GoFundMe Pro?
is B2B software solutions
for the nonprofit audience
that is part of the
broader GoFundMe ecosystem.
Perfect.
So while most of us are
probably more familiar
with the traditional B2C,
GoFundMe, we're talking
more about the B2B offering,
um, which was classy.
So, We'll, we'll stick to that
for this first segment of our
show, the case study segment.
And this is what I'm really
excited about because it's,
it's a really big rock.
This, huge project that, that
you did and ran it, it touches
so many different things
and you were able to totally
transform your customer base.
You had so many big
lessons coming out of it.
So let's get started.
Take us back in time.
Walk us through when you
had to, drive adoption of
this core product across
your entire customer base.
Like give us a lay of the
land of what was going
on when you realized
that needed to happen.
Sure, yeah.
It's, it was, um,
immediately from, from when
I joined, so Classy was
at an inflection point.
Point and eyeing the
next phase of growth.
previously, over the years,
the company had built really
strong brand equity in the
nonprofit fundraising space,
but was entering a new phase.
And, uh, the first all
hands I ever joined was the
founder stepping down and
handing off to the new CEO.
And the first email I
ever sent was announcing
our series D. Commitment
to double the size of our
product and engineering team.
And so in addition to that,
like many growing companies,
we were implementing A new
marketing automation platform
as I onboarded, refreshing
the brand, the website.
And so there was
just a lot going on.
A lot of change all
yes, yes.
As as, as anyone who's
in that phase knows
it's fast paced and.
all encompassing.
but the, the nice thing
was that the org structure
matched this new phase.
And so they had just
established a post-sales
team maybe a few months
prior, uh, to me joining.
And they brought me on as the
first customer marketing hire.
And, and the initial
remit, uh, when I
was interviewing was.
When I asked, you know,
what, what does success look
like was, we want you to
build the demand gen engine
into the customer base.
and so that was my
how I and I started on
the demand gen team.
but the first thing that,
that very immediately
became clear was the
demand I was generating
was for our product.
And the first product
in which this was, uh,
needed was classy pay.
And so Classy Pay was one
of the company's three
strategic priorities for
the year, and it was really
a, uh, foundation for
all of the future product
innovation to come starting.
With that payment layer and
building from the ground up.
And so, that was, uh, actually
one of, in my intro, uh,
period, I actually met with
one of the pmms and, and just
like the, Hey, what do you do?
What do you, uh, you know, the
introduction to a new company?
And she goes.
Hey, Keith, you know, It's
great that you're here.
I am gonna be leaving,
uh, to meta here in, a
week and I heard that
you're gonna be taking on
classy pay, and so here's.
Everything, um, for that
we know where we're at and
like, you're gonna, you're
gonna run point on this.
And so that was, uh, that was
how things started, you know,
within the first couple weeks.
And so I jumped into the
product marketing world
immediately, even if
that wasn't, you know,
formally, uh, kind of part
of the job description
or, uh, the, the name.
Little different than
what you were expecting.
You're like, okay, so I
thought I was going to be
doing just this, you know,
driving to band, but oh, I
am also now launching and
driving product adoption.
Okay, here we
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which was, which was really
an a ver a gift in a lot of
ways because it forced me to.
Really dive in and get
to know the product.
You know, going to such a
foundational level, you know,
it's not just, you know, a
lot of marketing, particularly
outside of product marketing.
It's, you know, content
or messaging or ads and
some of the things that
you find in demand gen.
Um, but this was really.
Product marketing at, at
its core, and which I think
is, I think of product
marketing as the most
core aspect of marketing.
Um, and so it really was,
uh, it was a, a fun project.
but it was a great, great
way to learn and really get
into roadmaps and sprints
and all the things that come
with a product organizations.
Absolutely.
Oh my gosh.
I feel like we should do
another whole episode where
we just talk about your,
kind of like career discovery
into product marketing.
so when you've realized this,
okay, so I'm taking back to
the moment you just started.
There's all this massive
change that's happening
in the organization and.
you're now given
this huge project.
How did you even begin
to approach that?
Yeah.
Yeah, great question.
So continuing on the, the
context setting at this
time, about 60% of the
donation volume, and I'll.
May use the acronym.
GDV was kind of gross.
Donation volume
I was gonna say gross donation
Yeah,
how much is coming
through the platform?
Was, is the, one of the
primary KPIs, and so about
60% of that was on classy
pay, but the features were
light wi, but about to start
rolling out a whole suite of,
uh, capabilities and things to
the Classy pay, product line.
And those remaining
40% of the GDV.
Was fragmented across
different processors.
Um, and obviously as, as is
often the case with either
go to market or adoption,
the biggest opportunities
were still lagging and
they were concentrated in
the enterprise segment.
And so overall we
had product momentum.
We didn't have, particularly
with a new post-sales team,
a new customer marketing
hire, and all of that was
happening in the company.
We didn't have a system-wide
adoption or go-to-market
system for customer
growth specifically, and
adoption was required.
Uh, classy Pay Adoption
was acquired to unlock this
next phase of business, and
so my job was to drive the
product marketing and adoption
strategy for classy pay across
the customer base, while
also kind of building the
innovation narrative that is
going to fuel the rest of the
increased velocity to come
over the next several years.
because this was, you
know, year one of, of five.
And so, uh, this was a
great, great starting point.
I was, no small feet,
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
no problem.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And the one of, you know,
it was, the reality was this
wasn't just like a feature
launch because classy pay
was the product and then, you
know, digital wallets would
be one, and then recurring
frequencies would be another
set and then PayPal and Venmo.
And so, it was really a it
holistic way that, uh, across
the base of how do we kind of
talk about where we're going
and what we're prioritizing.
but what I quickly learned
that this wasn't just like,
oh, turn the feature on
in a product it required
because of its nature as
this foundational piece, as
the payment infrastructure.
It required, contract changes,
and then operational, like
migration for the customer
in which they had to rip and
replace, their product thing.
And so.
You know, you get into
contracts and rates and
fees and so quickly I
realized that, um, this
wasn't just a, Hey, this
feature is available.
Here's how to turn
it on, and why it.
Yeah, there wasn't a button.
Um, actually we had
to cr create and build
some of those buttons.
and so that was an
interesting learning, uh,
and, and really was where
realized that the real
task was we have to build.
The go to market system and
get these customer growth
teams who would be doing that.
Kind of all orchestrating
in concert with marketing
product, marketing lifecycle,
um, and the product team
for the in product behavior.
and really, you know, I always
looked at it as we're building
the customer growth engine.
And this is something that
ultimately we'd be able
to use and re and reuse
and refine for all the
future products to come.
And so my goal really
was, we at 60, we want
to get to a hundred.
Like every customer
is classy pay.
We, they all need to be on it.
And so that was kind
of, uh, what what I was
looking at as we started.
Okay, so, you, so I wanna
call out something that,
that I think a lot of pmms,
maybe miss here, like you,
like a lot of pmms really
express like benefits, right?
Uh, benefits of a product.
But I think what you had to
do is you had to like, take
that a step further as you
started to think through.
You know, convincing, like,
take us back to the idea
of like, change, right?
And changing behavior.
And to your point, like
it wasn't just going
to one persona to say,
Hey, here's the button.
Well, you had to create a
series of buttons to do that,
but here's how you do it.
But because of the nature
of the product and the
the, as you pointed
out, the contracts.
That needed to be
signed and everything.
You probably had an entire,
buy team of stakeholders
within the customer's
organization that you
needed to touch and change
their mind in some way.
And before you could even
do that, you had to go back
and create those internal
go to market systems
within your own teams.
So this is quite a lot.
Of change management and
convincing and persuasion that
needed to come into play here.
So how did you do that?
Like, you know, I know we're
gonna get into the playbook
and stuff and you know, you,
we have, um, and I and I,
you had this big goal, big
lofty goal of taking like
60% to a hundred percent
of customer classy or, uh,
customers to get onto classy.
but give me like the.
the, the high level, tactic
or strategy that you use
to, to really express some
of those, or moving away
from product Ben, just
product benefit to actually,
convincing all of these
different stakeholders to get
on board with this vision.
Yeah, I think you know.
One bite at a time is, is
kind of, is really the,
the approach is how do
you, how do you wrap your
arms around all of this?
And I, I often use the analogy
of Legos, where often if I'm
starting a project or figuring
out a new campaign type,
it's All right, let's just
dump the Legos on the floor.
Then start seeing what are
the pieces we have available
and, and how can we start
to build a, a system or a
framework in which it allows
us to go from A to Z and
that, that from to component.
Um, but I think it was,
you know, when I think back
at this project, it was.
A blessing in the sense that
it was product marketing plus
B2B gonna market in the sense
that you quickly learned
this is a multiple buyer
persona buying committee.
there isn't going to be one
message that's going to move
the needle on all of these.
And, and when you looked
across the customer base.
Everyone was at, at different,
needs or problems or stages.
And so really started by just
dumping everything into a
spreadsheet and just like,
what is the go to market
foundation that we have?
Or where are we at?
Kind of like an audit
of, you know, what,
what assets do we have?
Do we have a landing page?
Do we have, you know, a
core value proposition
and things like that.
where.
Does classy pay fit
within the lifecycle?
And really, you know,
the benefit of coming
in new was I didn't have
any preconceived notions.
And so I really would,
could, could look at this as.
What's really happening?
How do people onboard,
how do people, you
know, use the platform?
How do they, when do
they log in and log out?
who are the key people
that are using it?
you know, then moving into
like, okay, segmentation.
Um, and so this who, when we
look across the enterprise
segment, when we look across.
Mid-market and the
emerging segments.
so just really kind of
like getting your, wrapping
your arms around and
just dumping it into the
spreadsheet and trying to
think, okay, where are we at?
And, and now what do we
need to start building?
Where are the gaps?
Where the, where are
the areas we can refine?
And so that was kind of step
one was just ingestion intake
and trying to organize things
into a go to market motion.
the second thing was then.
I always start kind of
with an STP approach, and
so the segmentation, the
targeting and the positioning.
if, you know, I'm ever
unsure, that's usually a
place where I start is who
are we, who are we talking to?
What are they, how are
they unique and different,
and vary from each other.
How do we wanna prioritize
within those segments?
Who's the most valuable,
the most profitable, or the
iic, the ideal, profile?
And then how do we position
those, uh, various things?
And so, uh, when I looked
at the segmentation, it's,
you know, I mentioned by
the customer type or the
size, um, was one way.
where they're at in the
life cycle was another.
And so attaching this
product within onboarding.
Was the E was the first
place that said, Hey, every
person we get to onboard
on classy pay is one less
customer that we're going to
need to get adopting later.
So you're creating, by
getting it in adoption,
you're creating less
need for adoption down
later in the life cycle.
you know, and then you
know, which processor
are they using?
There was difference and
how we compared and how we
wanted to position or flex
different areas of value
proposition depending on
their current provider.
and then lastly, it
was, it was kind of like
within that segment type
of revenue potential.
So we really did a, a, a good
job of identifying, you know,
because of the nature of a
payment processor, volume
makes a big difference.
And so getting somebody
who's doing, you know, plus
millions of, uh, dollars per
year has an outsized impact
on revenue for the company
than a smaller or even 10
or 15 smaller organizations.
And so that.
Piece of, of really
understanding the market,
and in this case, the market
is just the customer base.
but under understanding the
market, where you can kind
of create levels of, entry
points or ways to frame it
and then prioritizing and
really getting clear on,
how do you, you one rock
at a time, but if you can
use the big rocks first.
You're really, um,
establishing a, a more durable
and a more impactful kind
of way of, of going about
it, knowing also that, you
know, those big rocks are
harder and take longer.
And so start the clock
there and then move back
to some of the, maybe
the, the slower segments.
And so that was kind of the
initial, uh, starting point.
and then once you have
a, a lay of the land and
you've ci kind of mapped
the, the market scape.
It's okay, how do, how can
we position this based on
what we know of who they
are, what provider they use,
what things matter to them
in this current, uh, stage?
And then, you know, when I
was doing like the demand
gen, the email marketing, the
launches, and the messaging,
we would do this over the
course of the entire year.
And so how do you continue
to promote something without
it just being a. Repeat
of the exact same email.
And so flexing between a gain
logic, fear, um, sequence
is something that I've,
I've used in my, previous,
you know, the retail
financial services area.
And that's a, a good framework
of just how do you keep
talking about the value,
but in a way that could
appeal to different people
who I'm a, I think in logic.
Okay, great.
You're gonna need numbers as
opposed to somebody else who.
Is going to be, I'm
really adamant about
our donor experience.
And so there's different,
how do you invite
different stakeholders and
different organizations
in to the core value?
in different ways it was kind
of a, a key aspect of it.
Um, so that, that was kind
of the initial starting point
of our, how do we start to
create an architect, what we
need to drive this adoption.
I love this.
I need to call out a couple
things that just as you've
been talking, I was taking
a couple mental notes on
what I wanted to call out.
So one thing, and there
are there, these are things
that I have in my experience
that around my career I have
noticed that really strong
product marketers do this.
Really strong marketers
in general do this.
those who first and foremost
understand the business.
So you made it very clear
just as you're kind of laying
out this, you know, the
strategy that you took and.
you know, the task at hand,
you paid very close attention
to the business, the business
health and things that moved
the levers for the business.
and you incorporated
that into the strategy
for classy adoption.
And then the second thing that
you did, which I think is.
another thing that
not all pmms do.
So I mentioned earlier that a
lot of pmms when they're doing
storytelling or messaging,
like they focus a lot on.
Benefits, product benefits,
and they miss, I guess, the
opportunity to have that
emotional connection with a
customer, uh, or with their,
the buying team, not even
just the target persona,
the entire buying team.
And I think with
your framework, um,
what did you call it?
You called the,
like The gain logic.
gain ga. Yeah, the
GLF Gain logic, fear.
is just a, a, yep.
Yep.
Yeah, I think that's a
really strong way to think
about like the emotional,
how you're going to ignite
the emotion for, you know,
various stakeholders.
And there's lots of
different frameworks
out there to use, right?
It doesn't have to
be that one, but that
one works really well.
It worked really well for
this particular scenario.
so.
Yeah, it's just not a lot of
pmms do that, particularly
ones that are, you know,
junior just in their career.
Just take some learning.
I, I've probably made
some of those mistakes
early on in my career too.
But, um, uh, anyway, Bravo,
like tremendous, I think
impact, obviously tremendous
impact, you know, that you
had in building trust with
your customers too, right.
Yeah.
Well I think what the
thing about the the gain
logic fear is you can
replace that with whatever.
frames you want.
I think the key to me is
that it's how do you take
the same thing but frame it
in different ways, knowing
that everyone's different.
Like there's, you
know, particularly in
B2B, it's easy to get.
Like laser focused on
firmographic stuff of we
sell to a business and
I it's no, you sell to
people in a business.
And so, uh, one of the things
I always hold in my brain
is we're not, optimizing
landing pages, but we're
optimizing thought sequences
and this idea that like
how do you get people who
think and have different
goals and aspirations
and feelings about stuff?
To all land in the same
destination, but know how
do I create the path that.
will bring that person
along and that person along,
and that person along.
And so that's, uh, kind
of the, the approach.
And, and that was really
the, you know, as we move
into like, how do, how do we
take, okay, we've got the.
Landscape and what we need.
We've got our message kind of
map in which we could use it.
Then it's okay, now we gotta
build, build the engine.
And so this is the the
promotional aspect of, you
know, if we think product and
and positioning, and now it's
okay, how do we now get this
out in front of customers?
And all the different
channels and, and, uh,
assets and levers that
we have at our disposal.
And so this was really looking
at this not as, like, this
wasn't like a launch campaign.
Obviously there were launch
moments, um, but it wasn't
a years long goal of having
this always on, uh, motion
so that we could use running.
Even when it's the lead car
and it's the primary thing
that we're promoting, but
how do we create it in a
way so that this engine is
still on and available and
plugged into when a different
product is launched and
gets the thing or content
Yeah.
It kind of gets inserted
into multiple campaigns
that could be all kind of
driving at the same time.
Yes, yes.
Yeah.
And so, you know, in this
stage it's okay, how do we
identify the trigger moments
within the life cycle?
How do we ensure that we're
having, you know, all of
the assets and channels?
Like, all right, we've got
our email campaign running.
How do we take those and
elevate or reinforce them?
Within the in
product experience.
And so moving beyond the
inbox where I get an email,
I see it in the product, I'm
now on social, all kind of
reinforcing the same things.
And then also, you know,
equipping the post-sales team.
They were front and
center, one of the primary
drivers of this initiative.
Um, they were the ones
going and doing the contract
changes and negotiations,
and so equipping them with.
Thinking of them as a
channel in and of itself.
And so thinking of how
can we have, uh, vary the
messaging, like if we're
thinking email marketing
of brand level message,
personal message, but like
you can say the same thing
but with a different frame.
And some people will see as
a human reaching out, the
other one will see this.
But they're all kind of
orchestrated and reinforcing
and cross-promoting
one another so that.
Each of the sums adds
up to a greater whole.
Um, and so one of my
philosophies that.
I've, maintained is
you reinforce the last
positive behavior and
then you prescribe
the next logical step
I
love that.
I love that because then
you're, you're telling them,
and you probably have to
say it multiple times, but
it's like you're, you're
still bringing them along.
The journey doesn't just stop
at, okay, I did the thing.
Like I clicked the link.
I pressed the button, I.
Did whatever I needed to do.
You're continuing to engage.
Mm-hmm.
And that's, Yeah.
that's a a way where,
how do you create the
contextual entry points
towards the thing?
Classy pay is what we
want, but okay, this.
Behavior of a customer.
Oh, they, they logged
in recently and went
to the reporting page.
Okay, what does, how
can we route that
towards Class C Pay?
Oh, they're launching
a new campaign.
Okay, how do we, we don't
wanna derail them from that
success, but how do we tie
it back to Class C Pay?
And so that was, um, a core
kind of operating philosophy.
And then how do you now think,
now thinking through that
of like, what's this funnel?
So really zooming
out of awareness.
Do they even know
classy pay exists?
You know, is, and, and
there's, that takes time too.
It's not just like,
Hey, we launched it.
What, where's the adoption?
it's okay.
Well we have to make sure
they know they, most people
didn't open the first email.
And so that's kind of
what are the things when
I get back to the audit
within that document,
what do we have to help us
make sure we're expanding
a solution awareness.
Across the base and
how can we track to see
indicators of like, Yeah.
no, they're aware,
they've engaged in some
capacity with content or
landing page or whatever.
Then what is the next thing
that indicates, all right,
they're showing interest.
It's not just, you know,
passive consumption,
but they're looking at.
Evaluation assets or, you
know, signing up for, you
know, the signup, the demo
or the signup page was a key
kind of conversion point for
us to kind of move them to
that next phase and then Okay.
Even when they
signed the contract.
And they say, okay,
yeah, we'll do it.
That is still not adoption.
And so we track it, Hey,
this is a closed one.
They've got it, but they still
have to go into the product,
turn it on, connect the pipes,
for lack of a better word.
and so that was one of the
areas where we found, that
stalled activation became,
uh, its own segment where
Over the course of a year,
we would see, oh, okay.
Like look at these
people all signed.
They're all ha, but
like it's still not on.
And so is that, did they get
caught up with something else?
Did they all of a sudden
change their mind?
And so we had that own its
own bucket and would work
on a stalled activation
re-engagement campaign.
And so knowing that, you
know, none of these things
are gonna be linear, trying to
figure out where within this
funnel of adoption are we.
Stuck.
Where do we need more?
Where's there a log jam?
And so, that's where we would,
you know, with target specific
interventions for that cohort,
follow up with the person
who they worked with to,
to close the deal, continue
popping in product messages
so that it's like, Hey,
last step, you just have to.
Turn the button on.
Turn the button on.
and then, you know, and so
the next phase as we're,
as we're going through this
and try to not take forever
breaking this down, um, but
then how do you operationalize
this across the team?
And so a good example
of that stalled adoption
was, or ops team created.
A dashboard, classy pay
adoption dashboard that really
operationalized all these
concepts of which segments,
which ones, where are they
at within the funnel, and put
it up so everyone could see.
Here's our top 50 GoGets,
here's our top that are
in the, you know,
implementation funnel.
Here's the top stack ranked.
And then you could sort it
by segment team, individual
it's a really great way to
get all the stakeholders
kind of on the same page and
making sure that everybody
has access to the same
metrics and we're all like
speaking the same language
around why we're doing this
and where we need to go.
Yes.
Yeah, CRI critical.
And that was a, a key
aspect of all of this.
Like, yes, I'm running the
product marketing and, and
building the engine, but
like, it really was because
it benefited from being a
strategic priority for the
company is we had buy-in
and alignment from all of
the different stakeholders.
And we would meet
weekly to just.
Talk through, where are we at?
What do we need?
Where are people
getting stuck?
What are the things that you
are hearing from your team
that they could use help with?
And so that's where things
like ROI calculators were
created as a output of,
hey, we're, people are cool,
but we need to get them
to that final, you know,
the logic based appeal.
and then, you know,
operationalizing is
how do you scale this?
You know, you can't just have.
Individual, uh, CSMs
or account teams doing
all of these things.
And so we built a, or I built
a landing page that kind of
became this central hub where
from our email, our marketing,
all CTAs would route here
if someone, someone had our
core value proposition that
we spliced and, and promoted
a lot of different ways.
And then once that
happened, trigger would
go to the account manager.
Trigger would go to
ops, it would end enter
us into the dashboard.
And so it.
was allowed us to kind of
help accelerate the adoption
with some of this more scaled
motions, as we were going
out and just repeatedly,
again, month over month,
over month, over month.
Not sometimes you're tracking,
well, other times not.
But the goal is that how do
you just continue to brief
execute on this strategy?
Consistently repeatably
until by the end of the
year you look up and, and
things are looking good.
So,
Okay, so you gotta give us
the big reveal, like what
happened, you said this was
a like, you know, years long.
Project or initiative.
What, what The initial
goal was to get, you
were at 60% adoption.
You wanted to get to, I
think you said like 80, a
hundred percent was kind
of the, the near term,
long-term target.
What was the end?
What happened after 12 months?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So the, the goal
was e everyone, we
want everyone on it.
Like there, there was
the ceiling was the roof.
Um, but we, yeah, by the
end of that calendar year,
and so I, you know, coming
in, probably starting around
May, it was last seven,
eight months, we ended up
getting to around 88% of
total GDD from 60 to 88.
Um, but then
That's really good.
Within less, that's
less than a year.
Oh Yeah.
Yeah.
It was a, the first few
months, um, which was
exciting, um, because you,
once you started seeing
the engine working, then
it, it's a matter of, okay,
let's continue doing this.
But That's again, where
you get kind of back to
where we started of the
segmentation and targeting
where it provided really
clear visibility into.
Where are the big rocks?
Where are the ones that,
you know, overall the health
of adoption is, is looking
strong, but these are the
areas where we need help.
And so that would orient
the go-to market or the
product marketing strategy
to say, oh, okay, we're
running, we're running into
a blocker in the evaluation
stage or with the rates.
And so we would, you know,
it would occasionally would
come up with, You know,
promotional packages of like
an offer of, Hey, do this now.
And so all of that, by the
time we're in the first,
second quarter of the
year, so like around a full
calendar year, we had cleared
97, 90, you know, 98% of
That's
and it became the, the one
provider with the exception
of a handful of edge cases.
And so really
transformed.
Yeah.
no, it was a exciting, and
you know, again, a. Collective
company, strategic priority.
But it was also, you know,
satisfying to see how do
you, you come in with a plan
and a goal and a strategy.
And so seeing it pay off
and work, uh, within a, a
relatively short window is,
was, uh, very encouraging.
The biggest things that
stand out to me from your
story are that you, had all
your stakeholders and you
guys, you know, we are on
the same ship and you're all
rowing the same direction.
Like you are so in sync
with what needed to be
done every step of the way.
So when you were evaluating,
you know, metrics or status
or health or whatever
of this initiative.
You could say, okay, now
we need, um, to, double
click in on this particular
segment or subsegment and
now we can shift our talents
across the team to get this
one where it needs to be.
And that is, um, not very,
it's hard to get there.
It's hard to achieve
that in and of itself.
But then in addition to that,
then the other thing that
stood out to me is just your.
keen sense of how to build the
segmentation and then how to
speak to each of the segments.
I think those are the
two, those are the biggest
things that stand out to
me around probably driving
a lot of the success.
I know that it's such a big
team effort and there are
probably tens, and I don't
even know how many people
are probably involved.
Maybe close to a
hundred internal folks.
Uh, I wouldn't, yeah.
but it was, yeah, A
large undertaking.
Um,
yeah.
Yeah.
Who like helped get us there.
Okay.
So, we spent a lot of time
on the story in the case
study, which is great, and,
and you've already, I think
in just how explaining
what the case study is and.
You know, your entire story,
we've uncovered a lot of
what the playbook would be.
But like, let's say, let's
just do a mini mock coaching
session right now where,
let's say like I'm trying to
drive adoption in, you know,
one of my products and I'm
like, Hey, listen, like Keith
is the guy, he's done it.
Like, coach me, teach
me how to do it.
Like where do I need to start?
In order to achieve
anything close to the level
of success that you saw,
where do I get started?
Yeah, great question.
And so I think, you know, I
start with We want to create
something repeatable so
it's, yes, you want to adopt.
This one thing, but I always
try to think of more system
and, and how do we drive
this transformation in
revenue beyond just adoption?
Um, and so again, if, when
we get to I'm entering, I
wanna adopt, I need to drive
adoption for whatever it may
be, I start with the segment
and targeting and positioning.
Um, in addition to just like
the intake and inventory
of where are we at today?
Um, just getting a real
firm understanding.
Of who Like understanding
your customer, understanding
your product, and then
what makes it valuable
and, and where within that
customer's experience can
we start to interject or
position or orient them
towards this adoption frame.
So really getting a lay of
the land of with a customer
first kind of starting point.
Yes.
I love your perspective
on segmentation, so it's
not just looking at your,
you know, sales data and
product data to segment your
customer base, but it's also.
it's almost like creating
like a psychological profile
to get the context of what
that looks like from the
customer's perspective
to be in that segment.
so that's really interesting.
Okay.
And a very core PMM muscle.
Uh, so then what do I do next?
Let's say, okay,
I've done that step.
I got a ton of insights.
I got my segmentation.
What do I do next?
Yeah.
So the first one, if I
am blank, why should I,
and so like, we're we
first kind of identify.
Who am I?
And that's the segment
targeting position.
Next is, you know,
getting, getting a
feel for what you have.
Where there, like what assets
already exist, if any, where
would you, um, you know,
what channels do you have?
What assets and levers.
Do you have at your disposal,
you know, some product
launches and things that
I've worked on, it's, there's
zero budget and so like your
channels are, email your,
any in product messages
you can do, and the teams
that are engaging with
customers, others, and so
like just really getting a.
All Right, I know who we,
you are trying to appeal
to of, and all the, um,
varieties in that, that fit.
Then what do we have?
What, what do I.
have at our disposal to
then reach those people
And what, and, and where
do maybe the channels
or where you can engage
them or what assets maybe
don't speak to some parts.
And, and so really kind
of connecting the who
and the what in that,
Mm mm Okay.
So in the second step, it's
almost doing an audit of
what do I have available
to me in order to speak.
To those, like what are
the communication channels?
I have to reach all of
these segments and then the
like, now what do I say or
what, what, what do I use?
What's the medium that I'm
medium of choice to, um, get
my, um, my message out there?
Um, okay.
And then what's step three?
Yeah, step three.
So I, again, we'll kind of,
we'll build it as we go.
If I am this customer,
why should I adopt blank
rather than not adopting
it or using something else
or insert any other trade
off, uh, decision that is.
And so from there then
it's solution mapping.
And so how do we match this
right message to the right
customer at the right moment
and focus on who they are,
where whatever they're at,
starting there and then
figuring out what's the
path I can get 'em to my
objective and destination.
And so it's sort of like
a reverse engineering
of it that isn't.
Uh, it's customer focused as
opposed to, Hey, we're gonna
just blast this email to
everybody and our product
is launched.
Why isn't anyone signing up?
This is, uh, maybe the
most important step.
Yes.
Because it's making,
it's, it's giving your
customer, I think you said
it earlier, like giving,
maybe it's not quite this,
but I'm, you, you talked
about giving, prescribing
the next step, right?
This sounds like maybe it's
that like telling them where
to go and how to do it.
Um, I know it's different
from what you're saying 'cause
we're talking more about
alternatives, but like you're
prescribing a different,
an alternative to what they
are currently doing, um, in
order to achieve whatever
they're trying to achieve.
Yes.
Yeah.
And it's, you know,
this, you could take this
approach in this step.
The solution mapping, you're
right, it's a, it's the most
important, and I find it as
it's a. Always on iteration,
which we'll kind of get to as
we move through the playbook.
Um, but it's a constant,
Hey, this person right here,
this is what's best for them.
This is what's best for them.
Um, and it, you know,
it can apply to their
lifecycle, their segment,
but also when you get into
the different personas.
And so mapping a
solution of the, of
class epay to a funder,
a development director,
or the digital marketing
manager, is different
than doing it to the CFO.
Or the head of finance.
And so how do, how do you map
The solution that is inherent
in the product, but framed
in the way to the individual
person or the state?
And so the solution
is everything.
It's all about understanding
the context of each
one of your customers
and their world.
My world as a marketer looks
different from, you know,
Joe Schmoe's world as a CFO.
It's just, that just
looks different.
So the way that they engage
with their product looks
different and making sure
that your speaking their
language and telling a story
in a way that they're going
to care to understand, not
even just, of course, they
can understand it, you know.
They're not rocks like
they, and we're all humans.
We have brains.
But, um, it's, it's more
about getting them to care.
And that's why we take
the e make the effort to
speak in their, in the
terms of their context.
Um, okay, so I'm doing that.
You're telling the story story
in a total, in a bunch of, you
know, totally different ways.
Um.
Again, and that's, it's
a lot of that solution
mapping, which I have done
so many times in my career.
And it is, it, it's
quite a lot of work.
Again, it can take, it
takes a lot of time in
doing some customer research
and understanding, you
know, maybe even some
prioritization of like, which.
Use cases I should
go after first.
And you know, I think
you mentioned earlier,
getting some like big rocks
in and maybe those are
the ones to prioritize.
what do I do next?
What happens after I've,
I've done the solution
mapping, you know, and I'm,
is it, is it building out,
I guess, is that part of,
is part of that solution
mapping, like building out
the story for each of those
Y Yeah, I would say like
solution mapping and then go
to market to me are kind of
like two sides of the same.
And so you can do it in
like the planning phase, but
knowing that this was, you
know, an ongoing years long.
Adoption initiative that
some of the, it wasn't as
all a straight linear, like,
alright, now we have all of
our solution maps mapped.
Now we go It.
It was kind of, and so
this is where the feedback
loops become especially
helpful because, you know,
it's easy for me as the
marketer to say like.
Here's your solution
team, like go forth
and drive adoption.
Um, but then like where the
insights and the real value
was refining the solution from
hearing from the sales team
or the, uh, the teams that
are working with customers
or, you know, the lifecycle
team would be able to call
out and say, Hey, here's.
Where people are getting
stuck or we're getting
a lot of blank, but
whatever, we can't get why.
and so this was where,
it's where like the
refinement and also the
targeting and prioritization
kind of can live.
Um, because it's, you know,
you don't, you don't ever
want to, like, you have
a core value proposition,
um, but the solution and
how do you make it real for
the vast, across the entire
customer base and all the.
Variety and, and ambiguity
that that entails.
You'll need to kind of
have this constant, okay.
that, oh, there's a gap.
And then the key was once
you could identify that in
a, in a vac or in a silo,
how applicable is that?
Oh, that's something
that we can now use to
enhance everything else.
And so those, those feedback
loops would be a cri critical
aspect of the, the mapping.
So the solution
mapping component.
Yeah.
Perfect.
Okay.
So we've talked a lot
about, feedback loops
and how important that
is, for iteration.
So coming back to your
playbook for this, and
looking back in your.
Career for when you were
driving this initiative?
I guess like, help me
understand what role AI
plays in all of this.
Again, like, I think at the
time when you were probably
driving this, there, of
course there was ai, but
you know, it's every day
it's moving so much faster.
There's new tools and the
tools are getting more
sophisticated every day.
so if, again, if you're
coaching me on this, like
assume like I've done my
solution mapping like.
I've done my segmentation,
I've, I've got my feedback
loops in place with
all of my stakeholders.
Now, coach me on ai.
Like where do, how do I
consider AI in all of this?
And, and how should, what
tools should I be using
and should I automate?
What should I automate?
What's your guidance?
Yeah, it's, you know, there
wasn't, AI wasn't embedded
into every aspect of
working life back in 2021,
but it, so it's amazing
how much it's changed.
And I think, you know, to me
it's about accelerating and
scaling those feedback loops.
And so if you, if you
can architect the system
and the engine enough.
Then you can take in a
lot more information.
So instead of that weekly
stakeholder meeting where
you're polling the sales or
post-sales teams, you can
ingest calls and identify
keywords and immediately
funnel those back into your
messaging and copywriting
way faster than, you know,
taking notes and, and
talking to individual people.
Um, and so, you
know, and then also.
You know, when I think of
the time spent researching
or learning, I think
there's value in doing it
yourself, but I, you know,
there's so much that you
can do in terms of research
and just getting data.
which is always a challenge
of, oh, we gotta go into the
data visualizer and stuff.
I think it really equips
product marketers today to
kind of be the orchestrator
of the engine because you're,
the amount of times you're
having individual meetings,
you can consolidate those
and get those same outputs,
um, in way less time and,
and a lot, lot faster.
So funneling it right
back into the, into the
fly, growth fire wheel
is a key aspect of that.
Yeah.
Okay.
Such a great tip.
And I think these days, I
mean, I'm hearing pmms who
are building entire, know,
agents, for lack of a better
word, or for embracing the
buzzwords now, you know,
building an entire agent to.
Just, you know, so to do some
of that segmentation analysis,
leveraging call recordings,
and and I agree with you,
I do think it's worthwhile
for pmms to do some of that
research and investigation
themselves, just to increase
your own confidence, right?
So you know what
you're talking about.
So you'll feel, you know,
a bigger connection to this
project that you're driving.
If everything's too AI
generated, then it just,
you, I think it's more
of like a personal, it
kind of influences your
personal connection to
what you're working on.
And then sometimes that
can influence the output.
Um, so I think having a
stronger connection to
your work is, is important.
Um, so that makes
a lot of sense.
Okay.
Last question for
you on this topic.
Keith, if you had one piece of
advice for a product marketer
who is out there trying to
increase adoption, maybe it's
like switching their customers
from one product to another.
maybe it's from switching
from a competitor to
theirs, but they're
just are trying to drive
adoption for their product.
What's one piece of advice
that you have for that PMM?
I'm gonna give you, uh,
one super tactical and
one more conceptual.
And
I love it.
the super tactical one
that we didn't get into
earlier is close the loop of
value with your customers.
And so once they've adopted
something that doesn't, that's
not the end of the goal.
It might be for what
your objective was.
But it really, what we, I
found to be very valuable
is then reinforcing that
the thing that that customer
just adopted is adding and
delivering the value that
you promised in the product
marketing and, and messaging.
And so by closing that loop,
you are reinforcing, um, the
value and, and creating an
opportunity where they'll
say, all right, I am.
This one worked.
I'm more inclined to listen to
the next time they tell me to
adopt something, but it also
can, it fuels social proof
and case studies and results,
but I think it's too often we
forget to close the loop with
customers and move on to the
next launch or adoption and,
and there's so much goodwill
and value of closing that
last loop and, and making
sure the customer realizes.
Value.
Value, and they're aware
that they are receiving the
value because that's end all.
Be all of it all.
And it just validates
their trust in you.
Right?
And it helps to bolster
that trust and it helps
your relationship.
And so I love that tip.
I think that's so helpful.
Okay.
You said you had one more for
Yeah.
And then the str, the
conceptual one is just
kind of know your product,
know your customers,
and then go to work.
The everything in the middle
of marketing and product
marketing, it's messy and
there's different goals and
things you need to do, but
I think it's, if you come
back to those two things.
That's ultimately what
matters, like marketing
and product marketing
particularly is the
matchmaking element between
products and customer value.
And so making sure that you're
grounded and have both feet
firmly planted in both of
those, I think is a, is served
me really well, regardless of
the product or the industry.
And so that would be, you
know, never lose sight of.
Either of those sides
too much because the act
of doing what we do is
matchmaking between those.
I love that and I, that's
something that I constantly
advise, uh, junior pmms on,
um, especially when it comes
to like AI and stuff, right?
Is to don't jump into an
obsessing over the next
shiny AI tool or don't
outsource the opportunity
to know your customer
and to know your product,
and to know your market
because the better that.
You, the more familiar that
you are with your customer
and your product and your
market, the more that it
will give you ideas and
give you confirmation and
confidence and validation
on all the strategies that
you're putting in place and
the stories and the tactics
that you're using in driving.
So I could not agree more.
I think that's
such a strong tip.
Uh, thank you so much, Keith.
This was such a good story,
such a good case study.
Um, I can't, I'm excited.
I wanna go drive my own.
Product adoption and put your
playbook, um, to the test.
I'm sure it'll, uh, bring
me some, some good fortune.
Thanks al was a lot of fun.
Yeah.
All right.
So now I wanna transition
to the next segment of our
show, the messaging critique.
This is where we as product
marketing experts get to
analyze real world marketing.
Um, and the fun part is,
Keith, as my guest, you
get to pick the company
that we will look at today.
Um, so let me set some
quick ground rules.
Uh, you're gonna pick a
company that either you
are familiar with the.
Target audience or you
are part of the target
audience, wouldn't it be
fair to critique messaging
on a company that we
don't know anything
about their customers?
Um, and then you're gonna
tell me, we're gonna talk
about what their messaging
is and who they're, who
they're talking to, and
something you that stood
out really well about
the, about the messaging.
Something you wish
the pm m would've
considered differently.
And then we'll brainstorm
a little bit around.
How that PMM could take
it to the next level.
Um, so without further ado,
reveal the company that we
will be, uh, looking at today.
Thanks.
I'm excited to
take part in this.
I really enjoy, uh,
the ones you do.
So for our episode,
I chose Wealthfront.
I love it.
So for those of you
who wanna follow along,
wealthfront.com, it's just as
you would think, it's spelled
W-E-A-L-T-H-F-R-O-N t.com.
Okay, so I just
went to the website.
Um, what, give me a quick
overview on how their
mess, how they represent
themselves from a messaging
standpoint, at least, you
know, based on their website.
I love it.
So for those of you
who wanna follow along,
wealthfront.com, it's just as
you would think, it's spelled
W-E-A-L-T-H-F-R-O-N t.com.
Okay, so I just
went to the website.
Um, what, give me a quick
overview on how their
mess, how they represent
themselves from a messaging
standpoint, at least, you
know, based on their website.
you know, their target
audience would be.
millennials and, and kind
of younger investors.
Uh, I'm, I sit squarely
within their target audience.
Um, and, and so it's
millennials, young
professionals, and people
who, um, are kind of maybe
earlier in their journey.
They don't have an advisor.
They don't have, uh,
any of the kind of more
sophisticated financial.
Infrastructure.
And so I've been a customer
for over 10 years now.
And so
Wow.
uh, I, I enjoy, yeah, I enjoy
their product, I love their
marketing, and it's been cool
to see, uh, how they're, it's
evolved over the lifecycle
and in my lifecycle of, you
know, fresh outta college to.
You know, advancing in your
career and how they show
up in different aspects.
So it's a, a big fan of it
and it's, you know, uh, but
I guess last thing about them
is they target like retail
investors and so they're a
consumer oriented like a B2B
or B2C, um, financial, uh.
I love that.
Um, and great that you've
been exposed to their
product for so long.
'cause then you can speak even
more to, you know, how much
the messaging is resonating
and how it's changed.
So, on their homepage,
they're, they've
got, you know, it's
basically an immediate.
Offer.
It says, earn up to 4.2% a
PY or your cash earns, uh,
at base 3.3 a PY and higher.
So talk us through
what that means.
Like what are they trying
to say here and why aren't
they just jumping straight
into, you know, the, the,
the traditional, this is
who we are, type of, uh,
strategy for storytelling.
Yeah, this is uh, um, I
picked this one 'cause
it is jarring, that tip.
It's not what you expect when
you land on a homepage to
It felt, I almost thought
that, like I click, I thought
that I clicked on like a
sponsored, a sponsored link,
not their actual website.
Yeah.
No, it, it's, it's
interesting and I think
this is, uh, partially like
a consumer finance, like
the acquisition is a key
aspect, but I like this.
I selected this option because
I like that they led, they
don't shy away from leading
with their offer and having,
this was what attracted me and
made me become a Wealthfront
customer a decade ago.
Their primary value
proposition has always been.
We provide more competitive
interest rates than any
most bank, like whatever
the maximum is from the
Fed, will be offering that.
And they do a really
good job of reinforcing
that for customers too.
And so, um, every time
something changes.
Uh, like, oh, the
interest rates change.
They'll send an email and
say, Hey, it went down.
'cause it's required,
but you're still
getting the best in it.
And so this is their core
value proposition, and
they're not trying to become
or position themselves
as anything other than
like, this is what we do.
And then the rest will
follow of how do they, what
else do they do besides
this kind of core value?
Got it.
Got it.
So they're, they're, uh,
getting that foot in the door
based on the core value, and
then over time they're earning
your trust and they're able
to get, I mean, it seems like
they're able to get, um, a bit
more of your wallet share by.
You know, delivering your
value, delivering you value.
Um, okay, so walk me through
like, what did the PMM m do
really well, and then what
do you wish the PMM would've
considered differently
Yeah.
And so below the offer one,
like as we scroll down the
page, then the H one goes into
turn your savings into wealth.
And so what I liked about
that is it's a very clear from
two it's savings and wealth.
And wealth obviously kind
of echoes their brand name
and then they this more
traditional kind of marketing
product, marketing page.
They then frame the platform
and persona flexibility.
So they appeal to, do
you want, are you a DIY
investor or do you want
a done for you solution
Ah,
we've got both of those ways.
So
I see.
Yes, totally.
core value, then this,
then the H two, they have,
uh, make the most of your
money wherever you're at.
So this is their core value
proposition that they then
orient on three different,
uh, specific use cases.
And so saving, uh, couples,
managing finances, uh,
different, you know, how how
does this show up in the life
for their various personas?
And then they close
with the tagline.
And so sophisticated
investing made simple.
Is kind of the core
positioning that, that they
reinforce through everything
in the product experience to
the content and their brand.
It's about simplifying
finances, automating it,
and making it work for you.
And so I like how it
just all comes together
it's the mic drop at the end.
Yeah.
It's really, I like
the storytelling.
I like how it unfolds
throughout the scroll.
Um, and it's not
what I was expecting
either, so I like that.
Okay.
So what do you wish
the PMM would've
considered differently?
Um, it's, you know, I
think one would be to
use more specificity.
Um, and so like they could
elevate, again, it's a
homepage and, and they have
kind of their lead gen.
Acquisition funnel leading.
Um, but I think that they
could elevate depending on
who they're, they're going
after, but some specific, uh,
product features and not as
only orienting towards like,
outcome and, and use case
like, oh, we make more money.
Great.
I think there's an
opportunity where they
could highlight like, Hey,
we automate your goals and
you can create a saving
and investing waterfall.
Um, or the other one would be
maybe highlighting specific.
Product keywords.
And so things like an IRA
or a checking account may
be clearer to call it out
specifically for people who
aren't as financially savvy
or aren't able to kind of
draw out like, oh, they do
offer IRAs, or, oh, this
is about checking accounts.
Um, but I think, you know, at
the level we're talking on the
homepage and not drilling into
any of their solution areas,
it's a fairly good balance.
But that, those would
be a couple things.
Got it.
Okay.
So if you were their, we'll
say PMM coach, how would you
advise them to like consider
taking this to the next level?
Yeah, I think I would, um,
bring their core positioning
into that first section,
and so I, it would be what
we loved at the end of
like, sim sophisticated
investing made simple.
I would like to see
that simplified.
Also at the very top in the H
one, along with the goals, uh,
and benefits based message.
And so it's kind of like,
it's not just the closing A
CTA, but there's a bookend
of reinforcing it from the
beginning through the end.
Simplified investing in money
management is the through
line that kind of connects
each section individually.
Yeah, I hear you.
I, I agree.
'cause I think that would
help me too, if I were,
you know, landing on this,
um, on the page the first
time, and that way I didn't
immediately think that it
was, you know, a sponsored
link that I clicked on.
I'm like, no, no, I
want their homepage.
Oh, this is their homepage.
Okay.
Uh, that would kind of
help clarify some of that
for, I mean, maybe I only
have that because I'm a
marketer, so I, I recognize
more of the sponsored stuff.
So, but in any case,
uh, great tips and well
done, well front pmms.
This is really good
storytelling and
now I'm intrigued.
I will, as a millennial,
I'll, I will look in to
the product as you know,
as something I may use.
Save, save yourself.
I'll give you a referral link.
I, I get, we get benefits.
They, they incentivize that.
So we'll, we'll
follow up out offline.
should we put your referral
link in the show notes?
Uh, maybe.
No,
I wouldn't, I wouldn't mind
it if, if, if folks are
learning about it through you.
It's, it's all good.
All the same to me.
Um, it's, you know, I
think one would be to
use more specificity.
Um, and so like they could
elevate, again, it's a
homepage and, and they have
kind of their lead gen.
Acquisition funnel leading.
Um, but I think that they
could elevate depending on
who they're, they're going
after, but some specific, uh,
product features and not as
only orienting towards like,
outcome and, and use case
like, oh, we make more money.
Great.
I think there's an
opportunity where they
could highlight like, Hey,
we automate your goals and
you can create a saving
and investing waterfall.
Um, or the other one would be
maybe highlighting specific.
Product keywords.
And so things like an IRA
or a checking account may
be clearer to call it out
specifically for people who
aren't as financially savvy
or aren't able to kind of
draw out like, oh, they do
offer IRAs, or, oh, this
is about checking accounts.
Um, but I think, you know, at
the level we're talking on the
homepage and not drilling into
any of their solution areas,
it's a fairly good balance.
But that, those would
be a couple things.
Absolutely.
fun little example.
I love it.
I love it.
Uh, well, Keith, one thing I
like to make room for on the
show is a moment of gratitude,
because in product marketing
we never get here alone.
We're always learning from
each other and holding
each other up, standing on
each other's shoulders, and
we're all better for it.
Um, so before we wrap up,
I just wanna say genuine,
thank you for taking time
out of your busy schedule
to prepare for this
conversation and to bring
your expertise to the show.
I'm sure it's gonna
be so helpful for so
many product marketers,
so thank you so much.
Really appreciate it.
Yeah, no, thanks so much Al
and it's, uh, a real treat
and my gratitude extends to
you as well as, uh, another
product marketer I'm grateful
to have learned from and, and
all the content and resources
that you put out for the PMM
community through your podcast
and the things you're doing.
So it was a, a real treat
to be here with you.
Of course.
Yay.
I'm so glad to hear that.
And on the spirit of
gratitude, this is a good
opportunity to give shout
outs to all the marketers,
pmms, peers, managers, and
mentors that have been part
of your career and really
shaped, um, the awesome
marketer that you are today.
This is a great chance to
give some, uh, some kudos.
Yeah, thanks.
It's, I have a lot because I.
This was the crew that really
taught me and showed me the
ropes as I dove headfirst
into product marketing,
uh, as soon as I joined.
So, first, Tom Morris, uh, Tom
was my boss for several years
on the PMM team at Classy,
and actually he was the person
when he joined, I handed
off Classy, paid to him.
And so he really showed
me the financial and
analytical side of PMM.
Um, he really digging into
things like basis points
and so I learned a lot
about, um, that from him.
Second would be Katie Gand.
Katie is awesome and was
the OG PMM when I joined.
And so if there was a
template or a doc or a
product hearing playbook,
Katie Stingers were all over.
And um, so it was really cool
to see, uh, and learning.
What good PMM looks
like before I even move
formally to that team.
Then lastly, just a trio
of, uh, Colin Majak, Megan
Ferris and Elaine Ner.
They were the three pmms
for three distinct product
areas when I was at Classy
and GoFundMe Pro, and they
kept me extremely busy, uh,
sequencing and orchestrating
the go to market for a
steady stream of launches.
Sometimes three all
at the same time.
Um, but it was really cool to
see how they each owned their
individual areas and, and
approach marketing, product
marketing in different ways.
And so, uh, those would be
my shout outs to the, to the
people that really helped
shape, um, and, and help
me, uh, learn more, learn
the ropes as I was there.
I love that and I even
recognize a few of those
names, so it'll be great.
I'll have to go and, um,
make sure that they hear
this episode and then
Uh, I'll be, I'll be sharing.
yeah, maybe also tap on their
shoulders, shoulders to be
guests on the show sometime.
Yeah, sure.
I will.
I'll, I'll send you
my referral link.
There we go.
Rolls all around.
Okay, I promise.
This is my real last
question for you.
Where is the best to
access your um, expertise?
Should listeners just reach
out to you on LinkedIn?
Yep.
Follow me on LinkedIn.
Uh, my URL is my name,
so, uh, sorry to the other
Keith Blaik out there.
I have Keith Dash blaik,
um, and I'm on there talking
product marketing, marketing
theory, sharing pictures
of my whiteboards and,
uh, occasionally making
some jokes and stuff.
So, happy to connect
and, and, uh, see, see
if you wanna reach out.
Again, thank you
so much, Keith.
This was such a great story,
such a great playbook.
Um, and hey, PMM listeners,
if you really liked this
episode, please share
it with a PMM friend.
I'd be so grateful if
you would leave a review.
It helps tremendously
with our reach.
And thank you so much
for coming on this
adventure with us today.
I hope this episode leaves
you with inspiration to
take in the next step
of your own journey.