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Sally Brown from Ezekiel Ministries joins Stephen this week to discuss the relationship between parenting and mentoring. They dive into how mentoring can influence how you relate to your children as well as how parenting can impact the mentor/mentee relationship.
Show Notes
Ezekiel Ministries - http://ezeministries.org
Creators and Guests
What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?
You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.
Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.
You can mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships with kids from hard places in the name of Jesus. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others. You can mentor.
Speaker 2:If this episode does not make you cry, I will pay you $1 if you know me. Sally Brown, Ezekiel Ministries, an excellent interview with an amazing person. I hope you enjoy her story. If you like it, please just share it with someone you know. Text away.
Speaker 2:You can mentor. Welcome back to the You Can Mentor podcast. My name is Stephen Murray, and I'm here with Sally Brown. Sally Brown, how the heck are you?
Speaker 3:I'm doing fine. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:Sally is the mentoring director at Ezekiel Ministries in Columbia, South Carolina. Sally lives in Lexington with her college sweetheart, Justin, 3 kids and 2 dogs. Is that correct? Do you have any more dogs or kids that you've added?
Speaker 3:That's correct.
Speaker 2:And so, Sally and the Browns, they enjoy spending time together with family and friends and serving at United Methodist Church in Mount Horeb. Is that is that what it's called? Mount Horeb?
Speaker 3:The United Methodist Church. Yes.
Speaker 2:Come on. Well, Sally Sally and I connected via email. She found the podcast and was just so excited. She saw that the mentoring organization that I work for, forerunner, is is pretty much a a mere image of what of what they're doing in in Colombia. And so I I wanted to have her come on the podcast and share about her work and what she does.
Speaker 2:I feel like I may have found someone who's more passionate about mentoring than I am. So
Speaker 3:No. No.
Speaker 2:No. But just super excited to have you on the call, Sally. And I'd love could you just share a little about your personal story with our listeners and and just kinda what's led you to to believe in mentoring kids from hard places in the name of Jesus?
Speaker 3:Yes. So I wasn't always in mentoring. I wasn't always a mentor. I had a major in real estate, and I was a commercial real estate appraiser for my career.
Speaker 2:That is hot right now. You you should be in real estate right now if you're not.
Speaker 3:So but that's what I did, and I just I really wanted I had a passion for families and and kids, and I just I wanted to do something different. And I felt I was having a a class at our church, a value parenting values class. It was very small, but I was doing that. And I honestly, when I look back, a lot of the things there the values were good, but some of the things parenting related that we were talking about weren't what I would share today if I could go back. But, anyway, I really enjoyed that, and I was just, like, telling my husband I I wanna do this.
Speaker 3:I wanna do something different. I know exactly what I wanna do. And he was like, yeah. That doesn't exist. Like, encouraging people is not like a career.
Speaker 3:And so I was like, I know that's what I wanna do. And so a friend of mine was a parent liaison and and for a school near us, and they needed another parent liaison. And so I decided to interview for that and she told me about it kinda out of the blue. And I was like, man, you know, God just put this right here right when I was praying for it. And so I started there and I just
Speaker 2:So what's what's a parent liaison?
Speaker 3:The parent liaison was someone who schedules parent events, checks in with parents about their kids as far as what's going on with the school, kind of a a person who can connect the parent with the school and be encouraging it in that way.
Speaker 2:So the encouragement role did exist.
Speaker 3:It did exist. Yes. But I did. I interviewed for it, and I had no experience with kids. And and I just it was like it's kind of like the bringing your fish in your bread.
Speaker 3:I told the principal, you know, I've been teaching this class, and I'm passionate about this subject, and and he hired me. So that was really exciting. But they didn't have a lot of money at the school that I was at. There was and there wasn't a lot of space either. And so my desk
Speaker 2:A school a school with no money.
Speaker 3:I know. It sounds crazy. But this so they put my my desk right in the office outside the principal's office. So it was my desk, and then there was a desk for kids who got sent to the principal's office. And I just and kids from hard places were at that desk all the time, and I just fell in love with the kids.
Speaker 3:And I started having lunch with them, and I started figuring out, like, what was really going on. And I I had there were repeat friends that kept coming up, and I just started noticing that I was like, you know, I really I love the parents and that piece of the you know, I really I love the parents and that piece of this, but I really love the kids and doing more with the kids. And so that led me to apply in the same school district for Communities in Schools, which is a mentoring program that works within schools And recruits mentors within schools and I had 50 kids within one school that I was working with and being a mentor to them, but then also would have mentors come in to meet with them individually or in groups. And I just loved it. I fell in love with with all the kids and I have so many great stories and things that they have taught me and things that I've learned from that.
Speaker 3:And then from there, I ended up being a mentor myself because I was like, well, I really would love to, you know, just take a child and go and do things together and take them to the zoo, and bring them to my house to swim. And so there was a program that did that, and I didn't even know about it. But it had just come to Lexington, that was Ezekiel Ministries. And it started in Columbia, but they had just branched to Lexington. And the center for it was I could walk to it from my house.
Speaker 3:It was right down the street. And one of my interns at my work told me about it. She said, well, you should do this. So I started mentoring there and just loved it. And fell fell in love with the program and everything.
Speaker 3:It's a Christian organization, and I I loved how I could freely talk about Jesus with my mentee. I I loved how I could freely talk about Jesus with my mentee. And so that led me to where I am now. I'm working for Ezekiel Ministries and finding loving adults that will share the love of Jesus with
Speaker 2:kids. Yeah. So good. So tell us more about, I mean, just the the challenges youth in in your city face and how Ezekiel Ministries is helping them realize their potential? Because I I'd really love for people to hear about Ezekiel Ministries.
Speaker 3:Yes. I would say some of the challenges that we see are families where a father is not in the home. There there's a lot of that and just young boys that are looking for someone to look up to and look young men who are looking for a role model and someone just to be there as a guide. And then also a lot of single moms that are looking for that as well. Just amazing.
Speaker 3:I have to say that they are warriors. I mean, they just are really care about their kids and want the best for them, and they're really looking for mentors to come and help with that and help their young men grow into older men that are of good character and make good choices. And so that is what I would say the 2 things that we see is in parents, single moms that are working really, really hard and looking for somebody to help in that respect of being a good role model for their children. And another piece I see is with the kids, there's a lot of screens. A lot of time on on screens and video games and just not getting out of the house as much whether it be due to having to stay in just because of, you know, the maybe the parents working or something like that.
Speaker 3:But or just other reasons that they enjoy doing it or being on on games. But I love that mentoring will get the child out to do things outside and expose them to areas of things where they're like, well, I like to do this too. You know, I'm not I'm not only good at video games. I'm I'm really good at other stuff too that God has placed on my heart.
Speaker 2:I I my mind is stuck on your desk next to the principal's office just this whole time you've been talking. And I'm just interested in hearing any stories from the relationships you built with reoccurring or I I don't know how you say that. Reoccurring visitors recurring visitors to the the principal's office. But just were were there relationships with those kids that led to relationships with those parents and you kinda getting to know their story, or was it just small talk?
Speaker 3:No. There was there were some that connected for sure. One one thing that I I noticed with with kids that are there is there was always something going on behind what had happened. So you have an event, something happened at the school, and then when you get a little deeper, there's always something else that's there. And I do there was one girl and I knew her and, you know, we were friends with each other and I'd see her at the lunch table and there was one time where she had run of the building.
Speaker 3:So it's like a runner. She's up and out and down the street running. And I was it was so out of character for her, and I couldn't believe it. And I I was like, what in the world happened? And she was in the office, and I was talking to her about it.
Speaker 3:And she said, well, they had a substitute teacher that day. And she said, miss Brown, I had to run because if I didn't run, I was gonna hit her, and I knew that was wrong. And so she was, like, wanting to do the right thing, but she just, like, it was that fight or flight, which I know y'all are proponents of Empowered to Connect. And we we look at that as well and just learning proponents of Empowered to Connect. And we we look at that as well and just learning about I would encourage any parent and mentor to learn about how kids react when they're feeling frustrated or scared in some way.
Speaker 3:And for her, you know, she just ran. And it was kind of like a fight or flight type thing, and it and it was wrong. Know, she just ran. And it was kind of like a fight or flight type thing, and it and it was wrong, and it was scary for everybody involved. But it was taking that time to have someone who is not like, you shouldn't run out of the building, you shouldn't have done that.
Speaker 3:Why did you do that? And being like, why did you do it? And then, okay. Well, next time you feel like you're gonna hit someone, then walk to the office or walk to me or walk to the bathroom or, you know, just walk away and just giving another way to handle something. And so I think that's a big thing
Speaker 2:that I noticed with kids
Speaker 3:is they maybe just didn't have another thought of what to do. But if you go through scenarios with kids and kinda talk to them about, you know, what were you feeling? How could you have handled it differently? How can you do it next time? Well, I had really good success with that in the schools when I was with Communities in Schools.
Speaker 3:The 50 kids that were, you know, my my group. I would tell the teachers, you know, before you send them to the office, see if you can send them to me first. And let me just talk to him, see what's going on. And almost every time we could get to the bottom of it, something had gone on. And it it could be something in the classroom that had happened.
Speaker 3:It could be something that had happened at home. There was almost always, like, for an example, this is another story I have. But this was after Christmas break, and one of my young men, sweet kid, I mean, he just was just one of my I had a lot of favorites, but he was one of my favorites. And he wasn't finishing an assignment, and he it was a poetry book from all these different perspectives of, like, a parent, a a sibling. And so he came to my room and he brought his work, and I said, okay.
Speaker 3:Well, let's do it. Why aren't you doing your work? And he started just sitting there, and he wouldn't read it, and he wouldn't do it. And this is a 5th grader, so he's a 5th grade, young man, you know, strong and plays baseball, you know. And and so I said, well, I'll read it, and then you answer the question.
Speaker 3:So I started reading, and I just didn't know what really was going on. And then he just starts crying, like, sobbing. And he's so upset, and he and he was there was the passage was about his brother had gone to college, and he had been home for Christmas break, and then he went back to college. And he was missing him so bad, and this was bringing up emotions that he didn't wanna cry in class, but he didn't know what to do with that. And I was just like, oh my goodness.
Speaker 3:And it there there's it was stuff like that. There's always something behind the emotion, and then he was able to talk about it. And I was like, okay. Well, what are we gonna do about it? Like, could you call him more?
Speaker 3:You know, have you talked to your mother about it? And that is something, I think, as mentors, I wanna really, really stress if you hear anything in today is encouraging children to talk to their parents about what might be going on in their life. And I had scenario after scenario where I would know what was going on, and I'd say, have you talked to your mom about this? Have have you talked to her about how you're feeling? And they wouldn't have yet.
Speaker 3:And I would be the one, and as a mentor, you can do this, encourage them to talk to their parent about it. And I tell them, you know, if it's something that's a hard conversation where you're frustrated about something that happened at home, you might it's not what saying, it's how you're saying it. So I coach them, like, how would you say it? You know, say it to me, and we would practice, and then wait for the right time. Like, if your mom's really tired, it might not be the right time.
Speaker 3:Like, look for an opening to talk to her and and ask her about that. And for him, he was able to talk to his mom and about it, and his brother was able to call more. And they were able to talk more, and he and I would ask him follow-up too if you're a mentor and you have given your your mentee a challenge to talk to their parent about something, follow-up, and say, how did it go when you talked to your mom? And, you know, have you talked to your brother more frequently? Did you talk to him about how you're feeling?
Speaker 3:And they love to report back if if it's gone well and if it's worked, and then you can celebrate together. But there's been a lot of stories related to that where they just need encouragement to know, because there's a little bit of something I see in our culture. It's in our schools and in homes where it's like, I'm the adult, you're the child. And children don't feel like they can share what they're feeling, that they can not speak out to an adult, but just let an adult know that I don't feel this way or I I'm a frustrated about this. And they have to be given the space to do that.
Speaker 3:And when you're in mentoring, you see that and you see and get to you it's a mentoring, you see that, and you see and get to you it's a unique role because you get the space to talk, and you get the space to listen. And in a classroom of 30 kids, it's hard for teachers to find that space and to get that. And so and parents have a lot going on. And so creating that space for your children to talk to you and be open to and and having mentors encourage kids to talk to to their parents about things they might be feeling is something that was very valuable
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:In the mentoring relationship.
Speaker 2:I yeah. I love that. And and seeing as a mentor, your job is not to just replace mom or replace a parent, but to connect them to their parent, not to be the resource, but to connect them to their parent, not to be the resource, but to connect them to resources. And whether that's to their friends, to their their parents, to other mentors, like, you're a connector. And that third party, like, there's an opportunity there for us to help guide support.
Speaker 2:Like, when you're talking, what I hear these kids feeling is, like, this lady is not only interested in me, she's interested in my success. Like, she wants me to succeed. Like, she's asking me questions. She's following up. She's practicing with me.
Speaker 2:Like, that puts fire in a kid to, like if if you know someone's interested in you, like, that means the world to to you and helps you engage at a at a deeper level in all your other relationships. So now I have a question for you, Sally. What if you were sitting at this desk and your children were the recurring offenders being brought to the the office? Would would you have connected with them in the same way?
Speaker 3:No. No. No. No. And that is something else.
Speaker 3:Through mentoring, god has shown me because you learned something a mentor last night that I was meeting with. He said this last night, and it's so true. God through everyone you meet, god reveals something. Everyone. And so in all of the kids that I was meeting with and all the kids I was listening to, god was revealing to me that when my own kids are in trouble or they've done something, I was not listening.
Speaker 3:I was not. I was punishing, and that's the thing as a parent, you can you can ground, you can time out, go to your room, take away the phone, you can yell and scream and shame, you know, it's not great, but you you can do that. And that is not it's doesn't it's not effective though. So in the mentoring relationship with these all these kids that I was working with, I was very successful in making building a relationship with them. I was not yelling.
Speaker 3:I was not shaming. I was not putting them in time out. I was leaning in.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:So just being able to lean in and listen. And, also, another piece is encouraging the conversation. Like, I always wanted to keep the conversation going. And so for my it helps me with my own kids and then for the kids that I'm mentoring. You know, if they're talking about something, you wanna be interested in it.
Speaker 3:And so, like, as a parent, sometimes you might be like, you know, they're what what are you doing? And they're like, I'm watching YouTube. And you're like, oh, you watch YouTube too much. Like, you just immediately are, like, shutting it down. Well, if I was at school and I was talking to a kid and they were like, I like to watch YouTube, I wouldn't have that same response.
Speaker 3:I would say, oh, really? What do you watch? And so just taking yourself and and remembering, like, relationships are important and they matter. And any kid that you're in contact with, whether it's your child or a child that you're working with at school or a friend's child, you wanna treat all their children with love and respect and building the relationship. And so that is one thing too.
Speaker 3:And if they, you know, they might say they, you know, they might be talking to a young lady and she's like, I like a boy. And instead of like, you shouldn't like boys at your age. You know? That's a parent response. Don't do the parent response.
Speaker 3:Say, oh, really? Well, what's he like? You know? Is he is he kind to his friends? Does is he is he like to learn?
Speaker 3:What does he what does he talk about with this you know, is he kind to the teacher? And you're putting things in there and you're interested in knowing what's going on. And through that, they are starting to realize, oh, these are the things that I would wanna look for in a young man one day. And the things they're sharing with you, they're doing anyway. You know, they're they're they like and avoid regardless.
Speaker 3:So you gotta be able you're there, and you're showing up, and you're leaning in and going, okay. Well, I wanna know about this because I care about you and you care about this.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Is it is do you think that happens because as a parent, you have these designs, like, wrapped up in your head of what you want your kid to be? Mhmm. And and, like, it's so narrowly focused that anything that falls outside of that is, like, that is out of bounds. Like and you can't go there, and that's not what I want for you.
Speaker 2:And and, like, that kinda shuts down Yeah. Like, I I guess, your interest or willingness to be wanting to get into their world, it's like, no. I have a design. Your job is to get into my world. Like So.
Speaker 3:I think so.
Speaker 2:See. And, like, being a mentor is, like, this huge a huge constraint. Like, okay. I can't spank you. I can't, like, tell you what to do.
Speaker 2:I can't I can't well, I mean, you can argue, but, like, I have to express interest. I have to get into your world. And and so, I mean, I just love for you to share just what you've learned as a parent, as a mentor, and walking through that process. Like, what translates as a parent well to being a mentor, and what as a mentor translates well into your parenting? Because I do think that there's something to say about this is the way you should go walk in it, and, like, you need that person in your life that's willing to say the hard thing.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And I think mentors can be that as well, but usually parents fall into that that role of, like, authoritatively laying the law down. And the the main thing I think of in in that respect is, like, the 10 commandments. Uh-huh. Like, god is willing to tell us, like, don't do this.
Speaker 2:Like but it's it's not just because those rules are important to him, but because we are important to him. Mhmm. And he's he's willing to lay down the law. And I think parents are are willing to do that, but in in some respects, it may come at the expense of, like, the compassion and understanding Mhmm. And building relationships.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And
Speaker 2:so tell me what you've learned. Yeah. Everything. All of it. Because I'm I I have a 10 month old at home.
Speaker 2:So, I mean, it's coming down the road
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Eventually.
Speaker 3:I think, yes. I think too as a parent, you you are. You're you're looking at what they're gonna be and what you want them to be, and you're also looking at how does it sounds like you wouldn't want this, but it does happen. How is this reflecting on me? How is their actions of what they're doing reflecting on me?
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:And I've just had instances where, you know, that'll come. And I have to remind myself that so when a child is baptized and in front of the church, typically, the church says that you're you know, everyone in the church is gonna surround, and the parent is gonna surround the child. And it says that they may be true disciples who walk in the way that leads to life. And that's what our goal should be, as mentors, as parents, that they may be true disciples that walk in the way that leads to life. So if my my son is failing science and social studies, that's bad.
Speaker 3:I mean, it's not a good thing, but it's not something to where I'm I have to figure out what else is going on. Like, what else is going on? I have to remember the big picture of where I'm not going to compromise him learning and being full of light and learning about God and and who being that relationship with him. I just kinda have to focus more on what is happening and not it's not related to the child, I guess, which is what you would do in mentoring too. Because mentoring, you know, your child could come with all kinds of things that are going on, and you have to focus on keeping the relationship and focus on what's going on.
Speaker 3:You know, if they're failing something, okay, well, what's can are they having a hard time reading? Are they needing more ways to take notes? Like, what what's really going on behind behind the scenes there? So with mentoring, you show up, you listen, and you guide. And so showing up, listening, and guiding are principles in mentoring that are very great principles in parenting as well.
Speaker 3:And you show up and for the heart you're talking about the hard things, Steven, too. Like, I'm not saying that you wouldn't have those hard conversations. And this is an example. I had a parent. She was coming to pick her child up from school.
Speaker 3:Her child had pulled up pornography on the school computer and was being sent home for it. And so she just was like, and I I that was in my parent liaison role, so I was talking with her about it. And she was like, I just I don't know what I'm gonna say to her and what we're gonna talk about. And and at her age, the child was in 3rd grade, I told I said, well, I have what my opinion would be. And you I mean, as a parent, that's the advantage of a parent.
Speaker 3:You can choose to handle situations like that how you want to. But I said, you know, you could you could, you know, get mad at her and you can be upset. You could send her to her room and you or you could notice that she was curious about this, obviously, and maybe it's the time for you and your husband to talk to her about, you know, God's plan for her life and what what these things that she's looking at, how how they don't fit in to what she, you know, needs to be. And you need to have, like, the talk. And she was like, I'm so glad you said that.
Speaker 3:She's like, I I was just talking to my husband, and we were like, you know, maybe we should have the talk with her, and she's a 3rd grader. And we just didn't know. And you saying that is reaffirming that that's we need to talk to her about it, and we need to be able to be open and share and let her know, you know, about that. So conversations like that have to happen earlier, unfortunately. And with my kids, I had those conversations earlier because I saw what was happening within the the kids' lives that I was working with.
Speaker 3:And there's good ways to have this conversation appropriate, and that's a great place for a parent to have it. Because it's I don't know. I have friends that are like, will you have the conversation with my kids? Because I I'll talk about it. I'll talk about anything.
Speaker 3:Because I want them to be prepared and equipped and ready for anything that our culture throws at them, and I want them to have it under under the lens of what God's plan for them is. But that that's kind of an example of where it seems like if something is very they've done something that seems very wrong that you should the consequence should be very brash. But instead, there are times when it's it's more we're gonna have to talk about this more, learn about this more. The the child is curious. We have to be available to talk about what's going on here.
Speaker 3:And that's hard for parents to do, but I think that's something that as they, you know, think about it in a different way can you can get really good at that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. In a in a mentoring relationship, it's there's always a reason why. Mhmm. Like, kids do the things they do because of some reason. But in parenting, it sounds like more often than not, it's like there's always a reason why you should listen to me.
Speaker 3:Yes. Exactly. Exactly. Yes. Very good.
Speaker 3:That's true.
Speaker 2:And that's that's, like, something that parents parents learn from mentor relationships that that can really influence you. So you said show up, listen Listen. And guide. So talk to me more about that.
Speaker 3:Yes. So showing up is just being there. Like, as a mentor within the school, I would be there for kids, you know, showing up emotionally for them, being ready. And if they were getting praised for you know, we have those award ceremonies. Like, some of the kids I was working with weren't getting an award, but it was just as important to be there because they had to know that I love them no matter what, and I'm able to tell them, well, these are some of the things I see you're really good at because they may be good in things that are different than academics.
Speaker 3:Listening is we've talked about that already. Just leaning in and praying and watching for the Holy Spirit to to guide what you're saying. I have a story about this one young man. He's in 5th grade, and he we had a clothing closet, and I had coats and things like that. And his teacher had sent him to get a coat from me.
Speaker 3:And he because his was too small. And it had a Disney character on it, and it was, like, it was very small. It was something that, you know, she said his coat's too small. Well, he came in, and he was a very quiet student. Student.
Speaker 3:And he was in my boys group, like, but and he would come, but he was always very quiet. And he took off his coat and he put a new coat on, and then he put he said thank you, and he was very polite. And then he put the other coat back on. And the old coat. And I was and I so and the holy spirit just gripped me.
Speaker 3:I was like, somebody special gave him this coat. And if you have a child that is, like, wearing something all the time, whether it be shoes or sweatshirt or something, somebody special gave them that. And I just said, did somebody special give you that coat? And I knew that his dad had passed away a few years before. So and when he was in 1st grade, his dad had passed away.
Speaker 3:And he said, yes, my dad got me this coat. And I was like, okay. And I said, well, let's sit down in for a second. And, yeah, I mean, he was started crying. And so it was like, here we go.
Speaker 3:And I'm crying. And we're just sitting there, and he just and he had never really said a lot. He was just a quiet, quiet kid. But god gave me the opportunity in this coat moment. It all came out.
Speaker 3:You know? I miss my dad. My coat, This is the last thing he bought. It reminds me of him. We had we had gone to Disney, you know, had the Disney character, and he was like, my mom started to date new people.
Speaker 3:And he's like, it's fine, but it's hard. And I was like, I'm so glad you're sharing this with me. Like, I've been someone, you know, in the school setting. I would say, I'm the one who prays. I will be praying for you.
Speaker 3:And then I just usually would leave it at that. Well, he said, well, miss miss Brown, I used to pray too. And I was like, okay. And he said, my dad played in the worship team at our church, and I used to pray. And he's like, I can't go in the building anymore because it makes me so sad.
Speaker 3:He said, I'll go into church and they'll start playing music and I have to leave. And so then I knew, you know, that he had had the experience with church. So I I said, okay. And then, I mean, the Holy Spirit was just so thick right then. And I said, let me tell you something.
Speaker 3:This coat, you're gonna have to get a new coat. It doesn't fit. You can keep it with you. But your faith and the fact that your dad loved church and loved to go and play and worship, and this child wanted to be in the band when he got to middle school. He was excited playing an instrument.
Speaker 3:I said, you are gonna be able to use your talents just like your dad did to praise God. And this is what he left you, and it's so much more than this coat. And and I just think about him still. Like, I haven't seen him, and I just but I think about him in that conversation and the fact that if I just not listened to what he had to say, I would have missed out on being able to share with him and saying, gosh. When you go to church, you should feel dad your dad and Jesus so close to you.
Speaker 3:It shouldn't be something you wanna run away from. And I just pray that he, you know, he heard that and it it comforted him. But, God, if you're open to it, he's gonna give us opportunities to talk to not only our mentees, but if you're a parent, you can have these conversations with your kids. They're gonna say things and show things to you that you're gonna miss if you're not listening. And if you're kinda full yourself in your parenting role, then you're gonna miss out on some of some of those moments.
Speaker 2:Gosh. That's so powerful. And, I mean, the listening, the guidance, it's I mean, you just hit hit it on it hit it on the head, listening not only to the kid, but what the lord's doing in the moment, being present to to hear and see what what god's doing and then to give guidance, but also to be led, be being led by the holy spirit within those moments that I mean, I I'm sure I don't I don't have as much experience in parenting as you, but I can see how much it would influence you to feel that sense of authority in hierarchical structure of your relationship of I know what's best, and I'm the one giving guidance. But, like, we have to be led in order to guide them anywhere. And Mhmm.
Speaker 2:That's just so powerful, Sally.
Speaker 3:The I'm gonna can I share one more thing? Yeah. So I mean,
Speaker 2:just don't make me cry anymore. Alright?
Speaker 3:So an example with my own kids is so I started in the schools and mentoring when Lucy was my youngest was 2. So she was just a little thing and I was learning from all these experiences. And she was in kindergarten, and I had picked her up from school, and she was just crying, kicking the back of my seat on the way home. She was just having, like, a complete tantrum. And, you know, when you're driving, you really can't do much about it.
Speaker 3:But moms and dads know those moments that they're just the kid is just out of control. And old me would have been like, you know, I do not appreciate this behavior, and you're not gonna when you go home, you are gonna sit in your room until you can calm down and you know, I would have had a whole lot to say, but I didn't say a word. I didn't say anything, and I just waited, and then we got home. And I sat down, and she sat in my lap, and I held her, and it was the hug and hold. This is another thing for parents.
Speaker 3:You're you have the advantage mentoring. You know, you can hug, but you have to watch boundaries. The parents hug and hold and cuddle and lean in, and you if your kid is crying, hug them and hold them and just give it a minute. And that's what I did. I said I was like, I just hugged her and held her, and then she calmed down.
Speaker 3:And when you do empower connect, you realize the brain was open, the brain's closing, everything's calming down. We can all listen, and we can all share about what's really going on. And she'd had a horrible day, and she's, you know, she'd had a no good, very bad, horrible day. And she was sharing about that, and it was the first day that I had picked I had done a little bit of a delay in picking her up because they let us pick up when the middle school got out. So she went to, like, a semi after school for, like, 45 minutes, and it just started that day.
Speaker 3:And she's like, I didn't get to be in car line with my friend. And they had tacos, but I brought my lunch, and I love tacos. And I was on the the sun on the carpet, and they moved me to the boat, and the boat has a stain on it, and I don't like sitting on the stain. I mean, it's and she just kept going. I mean, her day was awful, and I would have made it worse, 1, by yelling and sending her to her room.
Speaker 3:And then secondly, I would have not heard any of this, You know? And so she tells me all this, and I'm just hugging her. I'm like, I'm so sorry you had a bad day. Like, this sounds like the worst day ever. I just can't imagine a day that's gonna be any worse than this ever.
Speaker 3:And then we just talked about it, and then she was like, yeah. And then she calmed down, and I calmed down, and we had a great rest of the afternoon, and we were more connected. And that's something that they say in Empowered to Connect. When you finish with a child who's upset, you wanna leave at the end feeling more connected than when you started the talk. Do you when you're parenting and disciplining and going through with anything that's going on with your mentee, parent parenting relationship, whichever way, mentor or parent, do you feel more connected at the end of whatever discipline, whatever conversation you've had than when you started?
Speaker 2:That's so good.
Speaker 3:And if you don't, you probably haven't reached it at the core of what's really going on, and you probably aren't connecting all around that and able to move forward. It's still it's still lingering there. It's still there. And, unfortunately, if that happens over and over, they're not gonna wanna share anymore, and they're not gonna and but it's never too late. It's never too late.
Speaker 3:Like, my my kids, I'm always learning and growing. And parents, if you're listening to this and you're like, man, I do I do that, then it's never too late just to listen and really change, and it will change your relationship with your kids. It really, really, really will.
Speaker 2:That's so good, Sally. And and I mean, it it reminds me of the lord, like, my own personal relationship with God. Like, the sweet moments with him, I feel connected. But even in repentance, confession, like, in bringing those things to him, I feel connected. And Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Like, his his ability to understand and be there for me and forgive and be gracious and merciful and not hold this history of my life of making failure after failure after failure against me. And, like, the next time I fail, he doesn't bring this list and, like, say, like, well, I've seen I've seen all of these things, and this is what I expect of you now. Like, there's there's this grace and uplifting and and an invitation to more connection, not less of it. That Exactly. That's, like, what we want in our relationships.
Speaker 2:So
Speaker 3:Yes. We do. We want that. And we wanna model that so you're comfortable repenting to God. They wanna know that, you know, I can repent to my parent, and they're still gonna love me, and I'm gonna feel closer to them.
Speaker 3:And that gives them the feeling of knowing that that's the relationship with Jesus and that we can repent and feel closer, and he'll love us. And it's exact I love how you said that. It's exactly the same. Same. Yes.
Speaker 2:Sally, such a good storyteller. Thank you for for sharing about moving from parent liaison to communities and schools to Ezekiel Ministries and realizing how much this is influencing and informing your own parenting. And I'm sure there's other mentors out here in in Listen Land. I I don't know why I just called it Listen Land. I think that was Zach.
Speaker 3:I like it.
Speaker 2:Zach on the podcast sometime called it that. But just how how much mentoring influences our parenting, how much parenting can influence our mentoring. And just I I I'd love if you had just any closing encouragement to mentors out there who are parents and, yeah, what what you'd encourage them in as they they jump in to their next mentor interaction or their next interaction with their kids.
Speaker 3:I think I would encourage them into that showing up piece of when you very first see the child, like, when you're mentoring and you very first see you're going to pick up your child or you're going to a center to meet with your mentee, I mean, you are present. You are excited to see them. You're smiling. You are not on your phone. You are with them.
Speaker 3:And I would encourage people and mentors to continue to do that and be be really intentional in that getting that starting off point with your mentee. And for parents to be that way too. Like, anytime you are away from your child and then you're back with your child, smiling and being available, letting them know that, you know, kids really sense a lot just from your willingness to be available and open to hearing about what they have to say. And, you know, we take it for granted that they're with us all the time, and sometimes you're you're on your phone or you're not listening or you know, you just have to be intentional about having that that time, especially right when you see them just to be like, man, I miss you today, or when you told me this, it made my day, or, you know, I love it when you tell me things like this. Like, just the things that you say like that to your mentees, say them to your kids.
Speaker 3:Say them to your kids too.
Speaker 2:So good, Sally. That is Sally Brown, Ezekiel Ministries in South Carolina. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. How can people connect with you guys after after we get off the podcast? We'd love for you to share a website, email, whatever.
Speaker 3:Okay. Our website is www.eceministries.org. So that's our website. And on there, you can find out about our programs and what we offer and our team and and all of that.
Speaker 2:And Ezekiel Ministry, that's connected to that obscure prophet back in the day. Right?
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Do you want
Speaker 3:me to tell you where the comes from?
Speaker 2:Oh, do it. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Okay. So the name Ezekiel is from Ezekiel 37 in the bible, and God does tell Ezekiel there's there's the valley of the dry bones, and there's bones laying everywhere. And God tells Ezekiel, you know, if you tell these bones to get up, you know, and and and rise up, then I I will help you, and I will they they will do it. So he he commands the bones and they stand up and skin gets on them and hair and they they turn into people.
Speaker 2:That's a crazy passage.
Speaker 3:It's a it's an interesting passage. And so god and then it says, god breathes life into the people. The holy Spirit goes in it breathes into this group of people, and it says there was a vast army of believers. And so we say that not that we're gonna pull these bones up or anything, but when Jesus left us, he left us with the holy spirit, and that is the spirit that was there in Ezekiel. And so that same spirit we have inside of us, and we have that power in relationships to change lives.
Speaker 3:So that's what we wanna be reminded when we think of Ezekiel in that passage is just that power of the holy spirit.
Speaker 2:Come on. Okay. Ezministries.com.comor.org?
Speaker 3:Dotorg.
Speaker 2:Dotorg. Ezministries.org. Check out what they're doing. Thank you so much, Sally. Looking forward to connecting more with you and and y'all's team.
Speaker 2:So really appreciate your partnership and and being on the podcast.
Speaker 3:Thank you for having me. I love what y'all do. You're wonderful.