Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
You've heard the book publishing podcasts that give you tips for selling a lot of books and the ones that only interview world-famous authors. Now it's time for a book publishing show that reveals what actually goes on behind the cover.
Hosted by New York Times bestselling author Anna David, Behind the Book Cover features interviews with traditionally published authors, independently published entrepreneurs who have used their books too seven figures to their bottom line to build their businesses and more.
Anna David has had books published by HarperCollins and Simon & Schuster and is the founder of Legacy Launch Pad, a boutique book publishing company trusted by high-income entrepreneurs to build seven-figure authority. In other words, she knows both sides—and is willing to share it all.
Come find out what traditional publishers don't want you to know.
Speaker 1 00:01
Welcome to the show where writers fill the tea about messy process and the therapy.
Anna David 00:14
Hello. Today I have one of my very favorite people on the podcast. His name is Matt George. He's a Harvard Business School executive leadership coach, a C suite business coach, a three times number one best selling author, a consultant, television host, a public speaker, and one of my proudest examples, he is one of the first people, one of the first clients of legacy Launchpad. What he has done with his book is truly revolutionary. So in this episode, he talks about why it's important to carry your book with you everywhere, how his book made him able to quit his job of decades, how it led to him working at Harvard Business School and so much more. So now I give you. Matt George, always a pleasure. Matt George, thank you for doing this. Yeah, I warned you that I was going to be tacking and talk money with a virtuous man like yourself. I feel that I must warn you before that happens, but, but catch me up. You've had some changes since I last saw you in LA Tell, tell me and listeners, what's going on with you.
Matt George 01:23
Well, it's a lot of good things happening right now. We've got, you know, I'm 55 years old, so I'm like, I'm ready to rock and roll and spend these next 1015, years just taking names and promoting, promoting what I do, which is, which is fun, it's, it's C suite coaching. And, you know, I, I work and have the fun job of talking to a lot of CEOs, a lot of huge nonprofits and and I utilize my books, and it all started with you, so I know how to actually market myself now.
Anna David 02:03
So let's talk about the matt George that I spoke to. I still remember where I was standing when I spoke to us outside this coffee place on Third Street in West Hollywood. What you were doing now and how that's changed at what is it six years ago? Is that when we first
Matt George 02:18
talked five, six or seven? Yeah, it was, it was probably two years before covid, or
Anna David 02:24
a year before covid, because your book came out right then,
Matt George 02:27
yeah, right when Gray, when covid hit, my book came out.
Anna David 02:30
Yeah. So what was your life like then? And what is it like now?
Matt George 02:35
Well, I was a longtime CEO. I was a 30 year CEO and nonprofits right out of college. I I had the luxury of being in that position, and I didn't take it for granted. I loved it. I loved people. I love culture. It's one of the things that I I teach and I coach and and it's very important to me and and raised a lot of money over my my long career, I was I was known. My board liked me because I raised a lot of money. My team liked me because I was a servant leader, and my community liked me because I cared, and I think that was the most important thing about being in the nonprofit space. All my time, we had 500 plus employees and team members, and we had 1700 kids a month flow through our agency. So we saw the toughest of the tough, and helped a lot of people along the way. And and, you know, a few years ago, I had an opportunity to join Harvard Business School as an executive leadership coach, so in their exec ed program. It's pretty cool because it's some of the the top business people in the world, and it's a global program, and I'm one of the one of the pieces of that where I get to coach these great people from different countries, and typically, I have people from, you know, one side of the world, I'm going to call it 11 o'clock at night, and it's, you know, four 4pm where they're at. And it's crazy coaching like that, but it it's I've learned so much over the last four years at HBS and and it's just an honor to be there, I've teamed up with some very good people along the way, with Kevin Harrington, who I'm no longer with, but I'm still friends with and and original shark on Shark Tank. And, I mean, there's just been a lot of going on, and I decided to to kind of peel off and do my own thing. And so I'm still with HBS, but I'm also have my own company and called Glass root advisory and partners and and it's just going to be a fun run here. So I'm, I'm kind of excited about this next run well.
Anna David 04:56
So speaking of peeling off, so. When we spoke, you said, I really want to go into business for myself, and I think there was some hesitancy about that, because, like you said, right out of college, you started, you started working for children's home, right? Or you worked somewhere else for anyway
Matt George 05:13
I did, but, I mean, it eventually ended up at Children's Home, and, you know, but I was in nonprofit work my whole life,
Anna David 05:19
and so tell me and our listeners how the book contributed to your being able to peel off and work for
Matt George 05:26
yourself. Well, the book was actually the catapult for everything. I didn't know what a book could do. I was not I didn't see myself as a writer. Even though I was always a studier, I always read. I read a lot, and I studied a lot, and I always wanted to be smarter. I still do. I always think that way. I always want to get better. And when I had the opportunity to meet you, you were the right person at the right time for me and I, I remember the conversation vividly. I was nervous. Here I'm talking to not only a publisher, it has her own company, but you've had many number one books, and you're a beautiful woman, and you've got everything right. And I'm sitting here going, I'm a nonprofit guy in Illinois. What am I doing? And next thing you know, you're like, just slow down. We got it, and we just, we started writing the book, and then, and when it was published, covid hit not too long after. And what it was actually a blessing. I truly think, because it, it made me kind of settle down and put a strategy around it, and it actually made our relationship stronger. So I actually got to have more access to you to pick your brain on marketing, how? And the biggest thing here is, how do you monetize your book? And you know, I'm not John Grisham, so I'm not going to sit here and think that I'm gonna sell a million copies. I'm not an idiot. But there are ways that you can utilize and integrate your book into your own strategy, into your own personal brand, into your own way of life. And I did
Anna David 07:12
that, yeah. And I think I yeah, I think a lot of people are delusional, and they think, well, it's just gonna, you know, they think selling 10,000 books is easy, not understanding that today, there's millions of books being released. You're not just competing with your other authors. You're competing with Tiktok, you're competing with Taylor Swift, you're competing with everybody. So you better have a plan for what for that not happening, right? And so and so, what did you do?
Matt George 07:43
Well, I talked to a lot of people, including you, and what I always knew I was good at was business. And so I actually put a strategy around this book. And one of the first I'll never forget, one of the first things you told me is you said, Matt, this is your business card for life, and what you need to do with this is carry it wherever you go. And I to this day, I mean, I still do. I have one right here, you know, right next to me. And so every flight that I've been on since we met, I have copies of my book, and I give it out before we land. And it's just something I do. I don't brag about it. I'll look around. I'll talk to people. I'm a talker. I will when I spoke, I had the I was the keynote speaker. I'll give you a great example. I was the keynote speaker for the in Florida. They had the Harvard, Princeton and Yale. Once a year that club gets together, the Alumni Club, and I was the keynote speaker. I got books for everybody, and I didn't sell them. I just handed them out. And I know there's a cost to that marketing, but it was a cost that I had already budgeted and said, If I could get two speaking engagements, or if I get one three day strategy session, or if I could get one, and I know how to monetize now, and that's what I did.
Anna David 09:09
I love that. This makes me so happy. I don't take my own advice. I never carry my books anywhere. It means so much that you listened. And so and so how did you start getting speaking opportunity? You were already speaking. You are a speaker. But how did they the opportunities increase once your book was out?
Matt George 09:29
Well, one of the things that I was a speaker, and in being in the position of a CEO, I had a platform, yeah, but the platform, you have to be careful with it, because, number one, I'm humble, and so I didn't want to sit there and brag about anything and and I didn't. But what I did do is I actually started expanding my my reach, and I think that was the hardest thing. And the most important thing, though, is I knew I live in Illinois, and I knew. In Illinois, I was, I was somewhat known, especially in middle Illinois. But as I reached out to Indiana and Iowa and different places, I would sit there and I would start saying, hey, I want to send you a book. Or hey, nonprofit in Las Vegas, when I was out there, I just went by the nonprofit introduced myself. I said I just wanted you to know I've been in this business my whole life, and my motto is change lives and save lives. I just want you to have a copy of my book, and the next thing you know, I'm talking to this group, and it turns into something. And so I did that all the time, like I do it all the time. I still do,
Anna David 10:41
yeah, yeah. And I think that if you approach your book the way you do, which is, you're genuinely in it to help people, so it's not about you, you know, you're providing value. You're not just like, oh, this might help me. And ironically, when you do that, it does help you, yeah?
Matt George 10:59
So I'll give you another good example. So I think you know this, one of my idols is John Maxwell, the leadership guru, written 100 books. And I'm, I'm a Maxwell coach, and so he's got this big thing every year, this big conference, there's 3000 people. I packed a full suitcase of my books, I had like, 5060, books, and I wheeled that in along with my luggage and and, and I said, I'm not taking one book home. And so I would network for three or four days, and I ended up paying. Now, think about the cost. Isn't that much, right? I mean, it probably cost, you know, let's just say my my cost of my book is whatever. It doesn't matter, 10 bucks, yeah, 50 books. What is that?
Anna David 11:47
501st of all, your cost of a paperback should be more like three to $4 but,
Matt George 11:51
well, whatever it is, yeah, my point is, 500 is not a lot of money, no, because I'm marketing myself. And so if I was sitting here buying a radio spot. Think about the cost. Well, here I am. I'm actually signing and handing and giving you a book. And here's the other thing, all I ask is you, let's get a picture and you post it. Yep, yep. And so there's pictures all over of me with my book, with people that I don't know, and and, and people that I do know, and it's turned into some fun things. And here's the other thing you know this, you get to meet other authors. And so I've met I probably in my office right here. I bet you I have 500 books that people have given me.
Anna David 12:36
Wow, yeah, I love it. And so how did you know when, at what point did you say I can quit my job and work for myself? How long after the book?
Matt George 12:50
That's a tricky question, because I probably could have done it sooner. It's just I cared so much about my community. I cared about my team. You know, I cared about the kids. And so the real answer is, if I'm just talking straight business and money, is I could have done it. The truthful answer is, I needed to navigate it the right way so I didn't hurt people's feelings. And you know, and maybe that's ego tied to it, but I'll be honest with you, the book is a driver, but you have to actually be intentional about it. You can't just think that something's going to happen, because at the end of the day, nobody cares unless you care
Anna David 13:31
Exactly, exactly. Yeah, and I talk about this all the time, but yeah, I mean, if you think I'm going to publish a book, and then I'm just going to sit back and wait for those emails and calls you're dreaming. If you go in with a strategy and the book, there's no stopping you. But I know people who've got a nice thing to put on their shelves, and I know people who've brought in millions of dollars and changed, you know, hundreds of or 1000s of lives. So you got to go in with a plan. And so you went in with sort of a vague notion, would you say, and the plan materialized as as the launch got closer, and even after,
Matt George 14:12
yeah, but you had a lot of homework that you gave that you made available, and so you didn't demand that it be done. You just made it available, and I'm a homework guy, so I said, Okay, I'll do it. And I didn't know anything about social media the way I do now. I don't know anything about I knew speaking, and I knew being a boss. I mean, that's what I was. Yeah, I was a leader. And so then to be able to implement a strategy into the whole overall plan. And here's the kicker, Anna, it's still going on like it's it doesn't stop. And I just actually referred to the book today. It was on someone called me about boards, and I said, I think it's, you're gonna laugh. It's page 153, in my book. It's boards. And. And I talk about the power of a board and how you utilize the board, and so I refer to it. It's a, it's a reference guide. It's a, you know, every chapter of the book, of my book is a speech, yep, every chapter and so. But what it led to was other things, like I had my own top rated TV show. I had a TV show that came from the book, so it was called business forward and and that went on for almost four years in prime time here in central Illinois. And that was a paid gig, and I got to meet more CEOs, which led to more jobs. And so, you know, it's, it got to a point to where I had the books and I had my TV, and I was doing some radio, and I thought, wait a minute, am I in the media business? And that's what it turns into, if you want it to be, yeah.
Anna David 15:55
And so in terms of media, how many media appearances. Did you do the year before the book came out? Versus after?
Matt George 16:04
Oh, man, I like probably three to five before, probably 30 to 40 after, but it would have been more. It actually turned in more once, once I understood what covid was, yeah, because once everybody started going online and doing things, and everybody was, you know, they knew the game, but not everybody knew what was going on at the beginning. So they, you know, things were being canceled. And, you know, you kind of go through those highs and lows. But I'd probably say it was 10 to 15x
Anna David 16:38
Yeah, yeah. And then in terms of consulting and all of that, how financially, how did that all snowball?
Matt George 16:48
Well, I mean, that's, that's actually my business. I mean, that's where I could step away from being a CEO. And you know it, I think pricing is probably something I think about even today. Yeah, my pricing it right. Am I getting value? Am I am I telling people that I don't want to work with? Am I being picky now, yes, am I naming some of my prices? Yes. Do I get to work at the probably the biggest branded institution in Harvard Business School. Yes, do I have? I had 80 global leaders that I've been around that that doesn't include the United States, yes. And so when you start checking the boxes, each of them equal monetization, and that monetization is different, whether it's public speaking, appearances, podcasts, strategies. I write strategies, and so I can, if you said, Matt, can you put the other strategy for a book launch? I could put together a strategy for you, and then I would get paid and and so there's just a lot of different now, revenue streams that are attached to it, instead of just one or two,
Anna David 18:08
yep, yep. You also did something i I've never seen an author do, which is you put together. What this 52 city, uh, tour you got on a bus. How good? Tell, tell us about that.
18:19
61 cities in 67 days.
Matt George 18:24
Yeah, it was crazy. I traveled the United States, and what happened was, what I wanted to know is I knew there was a black cloud over the United States in terms of like, mental health and drugs and alcohol. I knew that. But what I really wanted to figure out is why different communities and cities were not digging themselves out of the hole. I kind of felt like there's this negative thread running through the souls of different cities, and I didn't understand it. Like, if I'm in a I'm in middle Illinois, and I want my city and community to be the best ever. So my kids and my family are here. Why wouldn't I, if I have one bit of power to make this place better, why wouldn't I do it? And so I went around and I saw some of the coolest things, like I saw cities I've never been to, where the communities like Oklahoma City, I wasn't expecting much, and I was wrong. It was like one of the most beautiful cities. The people were great. They rolled out the red carpet. Same in Sarasota to Boston to Arizona, to you name it. I was all over the country, and I did media during the day, and we did book launches at night, and I did meet media sometimes late night, and I probably, I did speak at 36 different nonprofits and schools. And so it actually, you know, you get fatigue sometimes Anna and. I went, well, it was right around when I saw you out in LA. I was, I was in San Diego, and there was a situation where my book, actually, I feel, saved this young girl's life. And it was, it actually, I was sitting on this, on the the RV, and I was tired, and I was missing my kids and and I thought to myself, Why am I doing this like what am I doing right now? And 45 minutes later, something happened positively that changed the direction of this young lady's life. And I got back on the bus, so to speak. And I was like, now I know why I'm doing it.
Anna David 20:46
It's crazy. And, and then how did the book lead to working at Harvard Business School?
Matt George 20:55
That's, it's interesting. I had a connection there, and I, I was talking to them, and they, they said, We want you to they like the nonprofit piece, and I got an opportunity to interview there. And they, they made an offer, and they, they offered me the opportunity. I mean, it's, it's an honor, like, it's really cool. The people the curriculum, the professors, are unbelievably, like, smart. And I just thought it was just a fun change for me. And what's really neat about it is all of the other people that I've met. And you know, when you look at some of the professors. There are some of the top authors in business world, in the world, and so like you can, you can see some pretty big names there on campus at Harvard Business School. And that's a that's a pretty surreal feel. But I'll be honest with you. The piece that when I met you, it was actually one of the most pivotal times in my life, where it made if I was going left that day, boy, after talking to you, I took the hard right in a good way, really, because it changed. It changed my life, my That book changed my life.
Anna David 22:24
I can't believe that that makes that's exactly why I do what I do. Um, and I want people to see the power of what a book can do.
Matt George 22:35
It's not seeing it, it's actually they you have to almost take you're not going to feel comfortable doing it, I don't think, until there's one day and then all of a sudden you understand what's going on. It's not seeing it, it's feeling it. If you when you feel what happens to it, like people don't throw away books. They throw away business cards. They don't throw away books. So when they when you give them a book, and the joy of someone handing you a book, I've never not like people hand me books all the time, and I love it, like I've never been sad. Oh, I don't want this. Yeah, right. It's awesome. And you now have that power and your names on the book, yeah, and so, like, one of the coolest things you've ever done was we had a call you probably I, you probably remember it, but you don't know the impact. There was, like 40 of us authors that were under your label, and we were all on this one call, and there's a few big names in there. And I was like, here I am on this call. And I know this guy because he's associated with some professional athletes, and I know this person over here because she's in the self help space, and I knew that from the business I was in and I and next thing you know, we're all texting and doing this, the networking, if you don't utilize the network of something like this too, then you're silly. It's silly.
Anna David 24:07
Oh my god, I had no memory of this, and now I'm remembering. And we never did it again. We decided to do a zoom with all our authors. It was awesome, and I totally forgot. And now that we have so many more, we've got to do it again.
Matt George 24:24
Yeah, and, but you also did something like you shared like everyone agreed to share their info, yes. So what happened was, let's say there's, I think there's 40 people on the call. I have 40 new contacts, and those 40 new contacts are probably worth a million to each one of the contacts, like the other person on the other end, saying, wait a minute, I've got 40 new contacts. And everybody was sitting there saying how they use their use it in their branding and everything else. And there's three or four of those options. Authors that I still talk to today. Because of that,
Anna David 25:02
I didn't know that. Yeah, I don't even talk to all you. You're what you know, one of my favorites, so I don't stay in touch with everybody. And what's nice about this podcast is I'm going to interview a whole bunch of people and be able to check in three or four years later, what did this book do for you?
Matt George 25:17
Yeah, yeah. And there's a book in that. Anna, yeah, the check in of the check in,
Anna David 25:23
right? Check in, well, yeah. I mean, because I just keep my head, you know, I focus on who am I working with now, and I kind of forget that, you know, this is really self aggrandizing. These are, like my children, who go off into the world. And, you know some of them, I just, you know, I only get to follow on social media and see what's going on, but it's really there are very few where their lives did not change in some way as a result of the book. Because the book isn't just the business. You walk you start to see yourself in a different way. Don't you think you you discover kind of your greatness.
Matt George 26:05
Well, you walk with pride. Because I don't think really, too many people sit there coming out of high school and say, I'm going to be an author. I mean, they really don't, especially people that are coming out of in business, you know, you sit there and you're like, my job is just to do what I'm supposed to do business, and mine was take care of people. So you don't think that way. And I think what it does is it gives you, there's a couple things that I coach in business, one of them self awareness. So it gives you a space of self awareness. The other piece is self confidence. And that, that self confidence piece to sit here and say, I know there's a million people that claim their authors, but, but to talk about it all the time, and to actually be proud of it. There's, there's something to be said about that?
Anna David 27:01
Yeah, yeah. Well, in the in that, if I'm going to be crass, how much revenue would you say you have made as a result of of your now books?
27:13
Yes, I mean, it's a lot.
Matt George 27:16
I it's an interesting question, because, if you don't really think about it in terms of revenue, because it's been going on for five or six years now, but I mean, if you, if you think about it, have to be over a million dollars, because five years, couple 100 grand a year, just off of the books, you know, strategies and things like that. I mean, it's a lot, yeah, and it's a lot. I until we start talking, I never really, actually put a number to it, but it's actually, it's not something I think about, because it's what we do. It's what I do now, yeah, yeah. Like, it's every day now, so it's just like, my business,
Anna David 28:05
yeah, it's unquantifiable in some ways. And yeah, and that's what I do, and that's kind of what kills me. When people focus on the book sales, it's like, no, the book sales, that's a rounding error. Whatever it is you're going to make from that compared to the impact
Matt George 28:21
i i probably I have no idea how many books I've sold, nor, and if you told me I or somebody told me I could care less, well, I will tell you this. I've purchased probably 1500 to 2000 Yep, and I only have probably about 80 or 90. I'm due for another order. I have only 80 or 90 back in my basement right now.
Anna David 28:47
Yeah, the best money you could spend is on your books. Um, well, this has been a pleasure as always. What if people want to find out more about you, where should they go?
Matt George 29:00
Yeah, you can get hold of me. You can go to my website at the Matt george.com and, and you can follow me on social media at the matt George and, and I'm also called the nonprofit profit you are. So that's a nickname. So if you Nick if you put in nonprofit Matt George, you'll find me, but it's probably under HBs and a few other things too. So I'm not hard to find, but I will tell you thank you for having me on because you've you're one person who's actually changed my business life. That makes
29:35
me so happy.
Anna David 29:36
Yeah, Matt, I will talk to you soon. Thank you for doing this, and Thanks y'all for listening. Thanks for listening to behind the book cover. If you loved it, I hope you'll consider liking and subscribing, because it helps more people find the show and look. You can like and subscribe even if you only liked and didn't love it, but if you hated it, you can skip the review. Or who am I kidding? I'll take one from.
Speaker 1 30:00
YouTube, let's talk about the money, or the lack there of the research rabbit holes, booted pissed off behind the book cover. Let's get we're asking the questions that you've always feared.
33:39
So I noticed so much
Speaker 4 33:43
that I have learned about business that I didn't that were blind spots, and then so much personal development, way more personal development than I thought I needed. Yeah, yeah. Like, am I didn't already do all this work, like, I already been in therapy for like, a decade. Don't I graduate at some point and get a, you know, gold star, yeah, much.
Anna David 34:03
There's always more to learn, which is so annoying, it's pretty annoying. Um, all right, Dan, so good to see you. And again, thank you for doing this. I'll talk to you soon.
34:11
Thank you. All right, we'll see you. Bye.