Chitty Chats with Stacy

In this episode of Chitty Chats with Stacy, Stacy sits down with clinical social worker, trauma therapist, EMDRIA-approved consultant, educator, and Safe and Sound Protocol provider Laurie Belanger for a rich conversation about trauma, neurodiversity, EMDR, dissociation, and nervous system healing.

Laurie shares her belief that people are “tangled, not broken,” and offers a deeply compassionate way of understanding complex trauma, especially in children, adoptive and foster families, neurodiverse individuals, and adults still carrying the impact of early experiences. Together, Stacy and Laurie explore why trauma and neurodiversity do not always fit into neat diagnostic boxes, how EMDR helps bridge the body and the mind, and why clinicians must remember they are not just technicians following steps—they are regulated humans bringing presence, discernment, and relationship into the room.

They also unpack the Safe and Sound Protocol, using Laurie’s powerful explanation of the “sticky lever” in the ear and how our nervous system can become tuned to emergency settings. This conversation is full of practical wisdom, clinical depth, and the kind of nervous-system-informed language that helps people feel seen instead of labeled.

This episode is a beautiful listen for therapists, educators, parents, caregivers, and anyone interested in trauma-informed healing, complex developmental trauma, dissociation, EMDR, neurodiversity, and the power of feeling safe enough to become more fully yourself.

Laurie's Bio:
Laurie Belanger, LCSW-R, is a seasoned psychotherapist specializing in the practical, individualized use of EMDR therapy integrated into complex presentations. She is known for being creative and adaptive. Over a career of 25 years Laurie has developed skill treating complex trauma, sensory differences, chronic pain, adoption trauma, SMH diagnosis, and neurodiversity. As an approved EMDR Consultant and Education Provider through EMDRIA, she helps colleagues build a sustainable and enjoyable best practice. Dedicated to providing cross discipline education, Laurie enjoys translating complex ideas into relatable, impactful material.

Website: lauriebelanger.com
FaceBook https://www.facebook.com/laurie.belangerlcsw
Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/laurie-belanger-lcswr-1266113a
Instagram laurie_the_adhd_trauma_geek
You can also find some courses with me at UB School of Social Work Office of Continuing Education https://ubswce.ce21.com/item/emotional-safety-therapy-room-tools-strategies-resourcing-clients-ages-127442#tabFaculty

Creators and Guests

Host

Stacy G. Nation, LCSW

Stacy Nation, LCSW, is a licensed clinical social worker, educator, and military behavioral health leader who has spent two decades helping adults and children regulate, reconnect, and heal. As an early Phase 2 certified clinician in the Neurosequential Model, Stacy blends neuroscience, trauma-informed practice, and real-world classroom experience to help educators steady themselves before they steady their students.

What is Chitty Chats with Stacy?

Chitty Chats with Stacy is a neuroscience-informed podcast exploring trauma, regulation, leadership, parenting, education, and the messy nuance of being human. Hosted by therapist and Behavioral Health Officer Stacy Nation, with many amazing guests, this show invites you to sit with yourself, understand your nervous system, and navigate life without black-and-white thinking.

Welcome back to Chitty Chat with Stacey.

I am super excited to have Lori on today.

Lori, we were just saying that
our paths have flown by each other

on Facebook, on social media.

We probably have a lot of people in
common and I'm so excited to just

have this conversation with you today.

So welcome.

Yeah.

Thank you so much for having me.

Likewise I see your name fly by and
I'm like, "Yes, we are so aligned."

Yeah.

We have so much- We both

really care about

...
Yeah, we have so many
things we care about.

Will you, for my audience, will you just
give a little bit of your background

and where you started, what you started
doing, and I have so many questions

about what you're currently doing,

yeah.

Absolutely.

Lori Bellinger.

I'm a clinical social worker,
a trauma therapist an EMDR,

EMDRIA-approved consultant and educator.

I started my journey in
community mental health.

So I graduated from my local social work
program outside of Buffalo, New York and

started my journey in a child clinic.

Quickly found out that I
was not really prepared.

Yeah.

It's like they throw you in the deep end.

Yeah.

That was like 25 years ago, right?

Things have gotten a lot better, but it
was really getting thrown in the deep end,

and I've spent my entire career collecting
sensory-based deeply bottom-up...

I'm very strength-based
oriented as a therapist.

I believe people get tangled, not broken.

And

that we can untangle things and
help return to your best self.

So I'm always on a mission
to figure out how to do that.

I have a passion for neurodiversity,
being extremely webby myself.

I am one of the ways that
ADHD looks all grown up.

So I've spent a lot of my career finding
ways to adapt trauma therapy to be

supportive for the neurodiverse community.

Yeah.

I like my caseload complicated and messy.

When people ask, I'll say that's my
specialty, complex, like just messy.

Yeah.

But complex developmental
trauma has become my home.

I work with a lot of adoption and foster
care both the kids, so ages four and

up, and also the kids I wish I had
gotten to meet who are now in their

40s and 50s and 60s navigating life.

Yeah.

So that's kind of me in a nutshell.

I love all of that.

There's so many layers to all of that.

And the first piece is 25 years ago, we
did not know what we know now, right?

And there's so many... I think you
and I have probably had some of those

same conversations of like, why are
there more diagnoses of this and this?

Because we're finally realizing
more about the brain, right?

Yeah.

That kid's not just weird-
No ... or has behaviors.

Yeah.

Or that person isn't just, annoying.

Yeah.

They're dealing with things, they're
put together differently, or they've

had experiences that have wired their
nervous systems in such a way that makes

it difficult to navigate everyday life.

And everyone deserves care and respect.

And figuring out how to help people move
through this crazy, messed up world we

live in that isn't always very affirming
to unpack, the best tools, the best

accommodations, the best insight into
your own self so that you can love the way

that you're put together and celebrate it.

Yeah, absolutely.

You bring up neurodiversity, and this
is a piece of the pie that I think

is so interesting and not... A- as
a trauma therapist, I always get the

question of, how do we know it's trauma
versus neurodiversity versus... And

I often say we don't always know.

But I'm curious about
what your take on that is.

What's your opinion about that?

Yeah.

I'm not real big having really clear,
super solid boxes to stick everything in.

Love that.

Human beings are more than that.

And you know what?

Sometimes, in my own personal
journey, being very webby and

tangential has been traumatic.

Yeah, for sure.

In terms of how the social, experiences
I had as a kid, so what is trauma?

Trauma is just anything that was
outside of your capacity to handle it

in a deeply regulated, most you way.

Yeah.

Which means everybody has trauma.

To, like we all have traumatic
experiences in our childhoods, in our

adolescence, through our adult years.

Now there's like really big traumas
that people recognize, like the

big car accident, the sudden death.

But then there's all the little things,
the not being seen, heard, understood,

being left out, feeling so confused about
what is going on feeling invalidated.

There's... Neglect is a huge area
of trauma that I think gets glossed

over a lot and, people think of
child abuse as all about bruises and

not about no one showed up for me.

Yeah.

So yeah, trauma is a really
big... I call it more of a lens.

So it's in... i'm done with people using
the term trauma-informed care because

it's getting overused, and I don't think
people actually understand what they're

talking about when they say it, that
it's really more an experiential lens.

I'm looking at the human experience
through their experience of it and their

capacity to meet the moment and what
worked and what didn't, what coping you

were able to do and what the effects were.

Yeah.

Love that.

That's just an experiential
trauma-informed lens.

And in that, there can
also be mental illness.

There can be learning disabilities.

There can be all kinds of things.

Sure.

All mixed in.

Does that answer that?

I tend to go off on rabbit holes.

Yeah, no, I think that's great.

I think there's... You and I are
similar in that way that I don't

actually love diagnosing people.

I don't love, I don't love boxes either.

I think we're so much more complex
than that, and I think when we have

to label someone, it's nuanced.

It's way nuanced.

Yeah.

A person with ADHD over here
looks very different than a

person with ADHD over here.

Definitely.

Yeah.

And so I wanna speak a little bit about
some of the modalities that you use.

I'm sure like most- clinicians.

We have this toolbox and we pull out-
Yeah ... of the tools what makes the

most sense for the person in front of us.

But you have two specific ones that I
really... My clients ask a lot about EMDR.

I'm a huge- I- ... EMDR user.

I use brain spotting and EMDR together.

I know you've tackled
this lovely book written.

Yes.

I know.

I wanna talk a little bit about this too.

Book

club

meet.

Let's speak ... yeah.

Anna Gomez.

I know.

Anna Gomez did my consultation for
my EMDR stuff, and she's just- Oh,

lucky duck ... the most lovely.

Yeah.

So I just, I wanna talk about EMDR,
and then I also wanna talk- Sure

... about the safe and sound protocol.

So those are the two.

Yeah, sure.

Yeah.

So tell me about EMDR because I just
love everyone's version of their

own experiences- Yeah ... with it.

The thing I love the most about
EMDR is it meets me in the middle.

So on the one hand, there's the, starting
out in my career and realizing, especially

if you're gonna work with kids, you need
to have more concrete body-based ways of

meeting folks where they're at through
play, through sensory experiences.

And so there's the somatic end
of the spectrum in therapy.

Super important to learn about.

And then there's my first home which
was I was a psychology student.

Clinical psychology was where
I thought I was headed before

I became a social worker.

That's another whole long story.

But in that first it was existential
psychotherapy and theories of the mind

and the ability, I just loved Victor
Frankl and the idea that, no matter what

happened to you, you could create meaning,
and how powerful that was, that you still

had agency e- even in the worst of times.

And so EMDR brings those two things
together, so you're able to finally access

the parts of your brain that can do, I
love a good cognitive reframe, and also

they're useless if you're not emotionally
regulated enough to make use of them,

right?

So EMDR therapy brings in the
beautiful power of creating meaning

for yourself to change the soundtrack,
the music to your own movie-

Yeah

...
to something that's supportive,
that fits, that makes sense, that

you can make use of through the
adaptive information processing model.

So we're taking things that we're
not landing in a meaning way, in a

way that's helpful to you, and we're
actually being able to change that-

And we're able to do that by
bringing in these awful moments

of our life in bite-sized pieces.

Yeah.

With the co-regulation of a safe enough
therapist sitting across from you,

and we pull it out into the middle
between us in little bite-sized chunks.

Yeah.

And we manage to take all the sensory that
went with it, the feelings in our body

the meanings that popped up, the terrible
things we say to ourselves that we know

aren't true, but somewhere in our body
still feel true, and we manage to digest

all of that in bite-sized pieces and bring
it back out into our regular timeline.

So we have this adaptive information
processing that happens, and

we re-weave the tapestry of our
life in a way that works for us.

So it's a beautiful blending of what
I see as the two big spectrums of what

mental health modalities have to offer.

Both the deeply body-based ones and the
deeply, analytic and cognitive ones.

Love that.

I love... Anna Gomez says, "Eyes
moving to digest and recover."

That's what EMDR stands for.

And I, I don't know about you,
but a lot of my people don't...

They don't leave their eyes open.

They use their- Yeah ... tappers.

They use tapping or butterfly hugs.

They might use music.

What about you?

Yeah.

Yeah, there's a huge variety.

I always tell people bilateral stimulation
is more like... I always say as a

therapist, I'm like, "Find an OT-

... And make them your BFF." That's an-
Because I've learned- ... occupational

therapist.

Yes.

Because I've learned so much from
occupational therapists about

things like the midline of my body-

Yep

and that it's more important to
do this bilateral stimulation, the

moving across left and right, back
and forth across the midline of

your body, to help you stay, right?

Yeah.

One foot in the past, one foot
in the right now in my office.

It helps you stay put so you can rest
and digest and re-weave that narrative.

Yeah.

And you can do that through tapping.

You can do it through eye movements.

You can do it through auditory.

There's lots of ways to do a thing,
especially with my neurospicy population.

We might need to get creative.

Yeah.

For sure.

I just love the reframe of tying
together body and analytical, and I

think especially when I'm doing clinical
work with new clinicians, right- who

are very deep into the CBT model or
very cognitive, which has its place.

And- Absolutely

...
the body experience...

I have so many veterans, and I'm
like- ... they can talk themselves out of

something all day long, but it's living
in their body, and that's the piece-

Yeah ... we've gotta bridge together.

Yeah.

And that's why I'm really
passionate about- I guess the

things I'm doing coming up.

This summer I get to do a
presentation for EMDR Canada-

...
On clinician impact in EMDR.

And one of the things I wanna talk about,
is just, your presence your clinical

philosophy before you learned EMDR.

Because it, it impacts how you do EMDR.

Absolutely.

And it's a place to be like aware
of, it... So if you're coming from

that place of deeply analytical
and CBT, it's that's great.

EMDR's gonna help all that work better,
and you need to also move across and

over into this area of the body and learn
more about these things that you're less

comfortable with- Yeah ... to become
a really well-rounded EMDR clinician.

And then there are folks who are on
the other side of the spectrum, right?

We've got folks who are trained in
somatic experiencing and sensory

motor psychotherapy, and then they
learn EMDR, and they haven't gone into

these deep analytical cogni- yeah.

So it's so they have other things that are
like if you wanna be well-rounded- Yeah

go where you're not comfortable.

Absolutely, and it'll grow you, right?

Yeah.

It'll grow you in a big way.

Yeah.

You do a lot of supervision for EMDR
and- ... what is your experience with

just new clinicians doing EMDR, right?

My, my experience is always, "Am I doing
it right? What am I doing wrong?" And

so I'm curious what your thoughts are.

Yeah.

The biggest things are so many
clinicians come to me saying EMDR

training felt like a fire hose.

It was just- Yeah ... so much new
information all at once, so it takes time.

So I always encourage people to just
take your time in consultation to unpack,

and I love one-on-one consultation
because therapists will give themselves

permission to get really vulnerable-

Sure

about what feels clunky and weird.

But the two biggest struggles I see is
either somebody's really staying married

to their original therapy orientation
and they're overdoing that and having

trouble appreciating the full breadth
of EMDR therapy and what it has to

offer, or some people will try to use
it like, like it's a, just a toolbox.

Phases one through eight, just boom.

I'm like, "Oh, no." Of like you're
a clinician, not a technician.

Oh, I love that.

You're a clinician, not a technician.

I love

it.

Yeah.

So pulling back into your
original clinical discernment.

You were already a good therapist.

You don't have to lose anything.

Yeah.

It's about integrating and then starting
to see things through that AIP lens.

And it takes time, and it's
okay for it to take time.

Absolutely.

Love that.

So I wanna shift gears a little bit and
talk about the Safe and Sound Protocol,

which if I could have a bullhorn and- Okay

and announce one of my favorite
modalities that I've not trained

in, but- Yeah ... my daughter used
it, I've referred so many clients

to, and I just wanna... What is it?

How do you use it?

Sure.

Who's it appropriate for?

Absolutely.

It's appropriate for almost everyone.

If you have a nervous system- ... it's
probably appropriate for you.

I look at it as the SSP, the Safe
and Sound Protocol, is an auditory

program that uses the auditory pathway
to help scaffold the nervous system

up into a place of felt safety.

So there are many ways to do a thing,
but this is, in my caseload, this is

one of the easiest, low bar, safest
ways that I can start preparing someone

for something like EMDR therapy.

Especially my folks who come to
me with major sensory issues.

Going through the auditory
pathway is so straightforward.

Most of us are pretty comfortable
with the idea of music.

Yeah.

I've got a workout playlist, right?

Sure, yeah.

We use music already to help
us change our state, right?

To encourage ourselves to like
I'm gonna clean my house, I'm

gonna put some upbeat music.

So we know that, so it doesn't
feel so un- unfamiliar.

But you're really doing a deep
dive on polyvagal theory is

what you're doing with the SSP.

I can give you the quick this is
how I explain the SSP to my family.

Do I hear the spiel?

Absolutely.

Absolutely, Lori.

Okay.

We're your family right here.

Okay.

All right.

So here's the way I explain it.

It's kinda I take some liberties
with the science, so forgive me.

Because what I'll say is "Oh my
gosh, let me geek out for a second.

Your ear is so cool. Did you know
that inside, in the deep inside the

structure of your ear, there are
actually two different positions."

It actually looks more like a
drum, but I say a sticky lever

'cause it's an easier visual.

So inside your middle ear, when your
autonomic nervous system which I might

need to back up and explain, the part of
yourself that does the decision-making for

we're gonna digest lunch now we're gonna
decide your heart rate, your breath- Yeah

your sleep cycle, your cortisol levels,
all being decided, by your autonomic

nervous system, not by your conscious
thinking part of your brain, right?

Yeah.

So you've got this whole part of yourself
that like doesn't speak English that makes

all these decisions all day long for you.

Depending on whether that thinks
you're safe or not depends on what

goes on inside your middle ear.

When you feel safe enough- Your
middle ear is all set up to

listen to the middle frequencies.

So the tones I'm using right now as
we're talking and connecting, and

we're able to, without even thinking
about it, screen out highs and lows.

So shrieks and growls,
high pitch, low pitch.

And that makes it easier to connect.

In an emergency, again, not me consciously
thinking there's one, but my autonomic

nervous system, who's like my internal
bouncer like decides we're not safe.

And then imagine the
lever like flicking up.

Ah.

And

so now we're screening for high
pitch, low pitch frequencies.

We're taking in sound completely
differently in a truly physical way.

Yeah.

And now it's harder.

It... Think ADHD and
focusing on the human voice.

It's harder to focus on human voice
and connection, and we're taking in

sound like everything's an emergency.

High pitch, squeaky car
running down the road.

It's all very distracting.

It's prioritized by our ear now.

And now it's meant, you'd think
the lever should come back

down, back into a resting place.

Yeah.

So how would you know- ... if you
were just living with your sticky

lever stuck in the up position?

You wouldn't.

You wouldn't know.

You wouldn't know because
normal's a setting on my dryer.

It's not a real thing.

Yeah.

Normal's whatever you're used to.

Yeah.

And so a lot of people, the idea is
so many people are walking around with

their t- their hearing literally tuned to
emergency settings, and I want to bring

you back to like factory settings, right?

And the way that I do
that is through the SSP.

The SSP, the way I think of
it is like a workout program.

So if you're wanting to get stronger,
hopefully you wouldn't just grab

a 10-pound weight and just start
winging it all over the place.

You might get some help, right?

Yeah.

And you would have a training program,
and it's all about the weight and the

rest time and the frequency, right?

And we'd build you a program.

That's what we're doing with the SSP.

We're sending frequencies into
the ear that are exercising

that sticky lever gradually.

A little bit more, a little bit more.

It's an invitation to drop your
guard, connect in a body way.

And over time, you...

It's like even with podcasts,
this is always hard because

I'm such a physical person.

I'm like just so people know, I'm
making all these huge hand motions

whereas Stacy's just watching me.

It's okay.

I love it.

And this is fantastic because you're
gonna... it makes a lot of sense.

You're explaining it great.

Okay.

Good.

So if you imagine like most people
listening have probably heard of the

idea like the window of tolerance, right?

Sure.

Yeah.

So if you picture like the window of
tolerance, I'm holding like one hand

high, one low, that traumatic experiences,
often neurodiverse sensory differences,

things like that narrow your window.

Yep.

And so it's way easier to pop out the
top and drop out the bottom, right?

Fight or flight or shut
down and check out.

And so the SSP is like a gentle
exercise to start stretching those

two hands out and make yourself
a bigger window of tolerance-

Love

that ... so that you're able to stay
online, to keep access to your whole

self while you deal with stuff.

Love that.

So when we have people listening to this
and they're thinking, "Oh my gosh, I wanna

do SPP- SSP or I wanna do EMDR," how do
they find an SSP person or an EMDR person?

Yeah.

The easiest way to find an
SSP person is to go to UNYTE.

So that's U-N-Y-T-E UNYTE Health, and
they're the company that owns the license

and has created the fancy dashboard.

They run trainings.

You do need to have training in order
to deliver the SSP, 'cause just like

I said, it's like you wouldn't just
start winging a weight around right?

Sure.

There's training involved to learn how
to titrate the listings so that it's

comfortable and feels good and, is gonna
have really your best bang for your buck.

Yeah.

So you wanna find an SSP provider,
somebody who is trained in the SSP.

And they have a directory, and they
can help guide you towards someone

in your area who can either do it
in person or a lot of people these

days even do it by telehealth.

That is possible.

Yeah.

I do that with folks.

Yeah.

So that's how you access the SSP.

And EMDR, the gold standard for
EMDR is EMDRIA the International

Association for EMDR Therapy.

Yeah.

And they have their training programs
and, you can go through levels.

I was a... I was trained, then
I was certified, then I became

a consultant after a long time.

I think I, I was a consultant in training
first, and then I became an educator.

Someday if I ever had time, I
might become a trainer, sure.

But there are, there's
a process and expertise.

I've been doing this for many years.

So you go looking and seeing
who's certified in EMDR or

trained through EMDRIA primarily.

There are other- are therapists out there
who are trained in EMDR not from EMDRIA

but that's another whole conversation.

Sure.

Yeah.

Love that.

Those are They're just so helpful.

Part of the struggle when I do
podcasts with clinicians is that

our d- we have so much depth.

There's so much depth.

And so I wanna talk a little
bit about this lovely book.

So for those of you
listening, I'm holding a tome.

886 pages.

I know.

It's called The Handbook of Complex
Trauma- And dissociation in children,

edited by Anna Gomez and Jillian Hosey.

Theory, research, and
clinical applications.

You have taken on this book.

Yes.

And tell us what you've been doing.

Yes.

It started out quite selfishly.

Fair.

That I-

Fair

that I realized I wanted this book,
that I thought, I spend entirely too

much money every year on textbooks
and then I think y- you'll relate

to this, some of them will end up
sitting on my shelf and I might crack

'em and read a chapter here or there.

But, we all have busy lives.

I see a lot of clients,
I'm doing a lot of things.

I'm usually reading five
books at any given time.

Yeah.

I love to read, but this is a heavy duty
book and I was like, "You know what?

Jillian's amazing.

Anna's amazing.

I think they've probably done
something really important

here." This is really needed.

I should read this cover to cover.

The only way I'm gonna do it
is with accountability buddies.

So I decided to create accountability
buddies for myself and I

started a free online book club.

I love this.

So we meet monthly.

We discuss the chapters.

We create like a little syllabus
okay, read up to here by this point.

We're gonna unpack this
chapter this month.

Figuring it would take me 15 to 18 months,
but if we met every month, together we

would manage to move through this book.

That was the original idea.

Then partway into it I realized,
wait a minute, I know more

than half of these authors.

Like-

...
I've been in practice over 25 years.

I've been fortunate enough to go to a
lot of trainings and conferences and meet

some amazing clinicians, and that's part
of the reason I wanted this book 'cause

I felt like this is a beautiful offering.

I think this book ought to be on
the shelf at every child clinic-

Yeah

...
so that therapists have access
to it to start thinking about

training they might pursue.

Yeah.

'Cause it's just like here's a
buffet of all- Absolutely ... the

different ways you might start to
look at complex kid presentations.

And so I started inviting the authors
and, Ah ... I said, "Hey, do you

wanna show up when we talk about
your chapter and answer questions?

You can talk about whatever else too.

If you've got like a new book
or a training or whatever.

It's a win-win for everybody."

Sure.

And most people have been taking me
up on it, so now it's just trying

to figure out the scheduling.

I've created a bit of a monster for myself
in trying to keep this all organized.

But yeah, I'm s- super excited
that Anna Gomez is gonna join

us, Yes ... coming up next week.

Next week.

Oh, I

love this.

She's- Monday, 12:00.

Yeah.

She's just a gem and I love that
you said- That this book should

be on every in every clinic.

Yeah.

Any child clinician should
be reading this book.

What has blown my mind probably in the
last five years is how many clinicians

are not familiar with dissociation.

Oh, yeah.

And I don't know about you, but I'm, like,
alarmed that clinicians- Yeah ... are

not understanding the full... It,
I think it's a, an educational gap.

It is.

Yeah.

And I think it's a very
common tr- stress response.

Yeah.

Yeah, and I think, we're
gradually getting there.

And the popularity of ego state
therapies- ... whether it's internal

family systems training people are
going for, or ego state therapy, or

structural dissociation theory people
are starting to take those trainings-

Yeah

And weave them into practice.

But take that all the way
into childhood, right?

It gets a lot more complicated once
you get into child development, right?

And so it's just really special that
they're focusing specifically on

children and complex trauma, and just
how usual dissociation actually is.

100%. Yeah, I have this lovely clinician
friend, and we had coffee the other

day, and he said... He does a lot of
brain spotting, and he said, "I used to

move my people through pretty quickly,
but they're staying longer." And i- I

said, "What do you think that's about?"
And he said, "It's because they're

working on their childhood trauma.

They're finally-" Yeah ... "leaning
into that." And I said, "Yeah,

it just takes a little bit more
time to integrate all that."

Yeah.

And,

and do the... It, because it's so deep in

us.

It is.

And we've all got things, right?

Yeah.

It, we all have things.

I was explaining to a dad the other day
and trying to explain that what he's

seeing in his adoptive child is some
level of dissociation, not naughtiness.

And I said, "Have you ever walked
through your own parents' doorway

at holiday time and felt 12 again?

You just lost all of your adulting power.

You're just, you just got thrown back
into kid mode because you're in your

parents' house." And he's "Yeah."
I'm like, "That's dissociation."

Have you ever driven down the
street and you made five different

turns and pulled into the Home
Depot, and you don't even remember-

Yeah ... which turns you made and when?

That's dissociation.

And he's "Oh." Anyway.

Yeah, it's very

common.

We all do this to some degree for lots
of different reasons, and sometimes

we have experiences that are so
difficult that we have to do it more.

Yeah.

And kids, especially my neurodiverse
kids seem to be most talented at

pr- I say it's like protecting your
fluffy heart- ... from going dark.

You have all these awful experiences,
but you manage to shield yourself-

Yeah

...
using dissociation.

To protect yourself.

And so it's a beautiful coping
strategy that sometimes-

Absolutely ... causes difficulty.

It's one of the most creative, for sure-
Yeah ... coping strategies I've ever

seen, and it's definitely effective.

Until

it's not.

Right?

Exactly, yeah.

When you s- start missing time
and start getting in trouble for

things you don't remember doing and-

Absolutely

yeah.

Lori, what if people wanna work with
you, want more information about you?

Like, where can people find you?

What do you have going on?

Fun,

fun things.

So I already told you-
Cool ... about EMDR Canada.

That's in June.

There's still time to sign up for that
if you're interested in EMDR therapy

and the impact of the clinician in
the room and exploring some of that.

In July, I'm doing a lunch and learn
for University at Buffalo School of

Social Work continuing education on
it's not just about the modality, guys.

It's about your presence.

You can kinda... I'm
on a theme here lately.

Yeah, absolutely.

I am running... I'm always assembling
new consultation groups for EMDR.

The current one I'm interested in
putting together for the fall is advanced

therapists that are newly trained in EMDR.

So you're not like a new kid on the block.

Yeah, you've been in the field for a

bit.

You've definitely

been around a long

time.

Yeah.

And then the particular
challenges of that.

Absolutely.

But the easiest way to reach me is just
to go right to my website, which is just

Lori Bellinger, B-E-L-A-N-G-E-R, .com.

And then have a look and reach out to
me and see what I'm doing this month.

I love that.

You are such a gift to this field,
Lori, and I'm so grateful- Aw

that we had the time to connect today.

You have so much- Aw.

We have so much in common.

It's so great.

really do.

It...

I think that one of the things I
like to tell clinicians, and this is

specific for my clinician friends,
is when you're in private practice,

sometimes it's a lonely road.

Yes.

Yes,

exactly.

And

when

you're, when you've been doing it
for 25 years- ... same with me, it's

so refreshing to know that there
are these other little social worker

soldiers out there doing the same-
Yeah ... work wherever you are in the

world, and I appreciate that about you.

Thank you.

Thank

you.

And thank you for doing this podcast
'cause I really think that, it's

podcasts like these and the consultation
groups and even the informal peer

support groups I've seen a couple of
advanced clinicians kinda offer up

for free, it's like community, right?

Absolutely.

So better together if we
can get everyone together.

You don't have to feel so alone out there,

yeah.

Yeah.

And One last question for you.

I ask everybody this question.

What do you do to regulate yourself?

How do you take care of yourself?

Oh my gosh.

It's I wish I could show you my office.

This is, you're looking at my
home office and the audience

isn't looking at anything.

But my actual office, I'll
often joke around, I say, "And

I created this space for me."

Yep,

absolutely.

"And you're welcome to also enjoy
it." I'm deeply sensory impacted, so I

don't function well under fluorescent
lights and I don't function well with

a lot of loud, distracting sounds.

I use color and texture, and I've
created such a warm, cozy space

for myself in my private practice
that I feel deeply regulated in it.

I use weighted items regularly.

I use hot cups of coffee where I
hold them, and that helps ground

me, and I have the most amazing
variety of fidgets to play with.

So they're all mine, and
I share them with you.

I love that.

So you're regulating as you go, right?

Absolutely.

And I

think

especially clinically, when we're
deeply attuned, when we're holding

space for other people, when we ha-
we're taking care of our own nervous

system while we're co-regulating others.

I love that you're doing that.

You're just taking care of
your nervous system as you go.

And I'm modeling radical self-acceptance.

Yeah, absolutely.

I'm like, "This is what I'm doing for
me right now. What would you like?" This

is complete... It's not like I'm up here
and you're down here, I'm the expert.

It's like I too have a nervous
system that's wonky, and I do things

that help me be really present so
I can focus and connect with you.

How well do you know you?

What would you enjoy?

Yeah, let's explore it.

Let's figure it out.

Yeah, let's figure it out.

I love that.

Everyone's unique.

Yeah, absolutely.

One, and as Melissa Sadien
says, "One size fits one."

Yeah.

Which is so true.

Exactly.

I deeply appreciate
your time today, Laurie.

Thank you for making the space- Sure
... for me and my audience, and now they're

your audience, which is fantastic.

Wonderful.

Thank you so much for having me.

This was fun.

Oh, it was so great.

Have a great day.

You too.

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