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The Moonshots Podcast goes behind the scenes of the world's greatest superstars, thinkers and entrepreneurs to discover the secrets to their success. We deconstruct their success from mindset to daily habits so that we can apply it to our lives. Join us as we 'learn out loud' from Elon Musk, Brene Brown to emerging talents like David Goggins.
[Music]
thank you
hello and welcome to the moonshots
podcast it's episode 211. I'm your
co-host Mike Parsons and as always I'm
joined by Mark Pearson Freeland good
morning Mark good morning Mike and good
morning listeners and members we have
sadly come to the end of our wisdom
series on the moonshot show but Mike I'm
not going to lie to you we do have a
pretty inspirational and revealing
episode as part of episode 211 today I
think you might be saying that we are
bringing it home strong we're wrapping
up in a good way
that's right listeners and members we
are uh finishing off and completing our
current series on wisdom with Victor E
Frankel's Man's Search for meaning and
Incredibly and I think it's a little bit
of an understatement Mike to even use
the word incredible incredibly
um inspirational as well as powerful
autobiographical account of Franco's
experience as well as the application of
his trademark therapy logotherapy during
the imprisonment that he experienced in
Vienna Austria during World War II and
without going into all of the history
Mike I think the invitation that perhaps
we're going to have for today's show and
how we're connecting it into the world
of wisdom and moonshots learning out
loud is really the application I think
of going through something that's very
very tough and and being able to survive
through it don't you think yeah it was
his life story is epic this is
definitely you know top shelf uh on the
moonshots library if you enjoyed grit by
Angela Duckworth Victor E Frankel's book
this man's search for meaning is an
all-time classy so if you want to find
the capacity to to keep going when
challenge comes your way this is your
book and today we are going to break it
down we're going to tear it apart we're
going to decode what Victor Frankl has
to teach us and we're going to try our
damn best to apply it into our lives so
whether you're at work or at home and
you're looking to lift your game to push
through the challenge the discomfort
then this is the book for you the
amazing testimony he has for surviving a
concentration camp the observations he
has from his own Survival he lost
everyone I'm saying he lost his wife in
the concentration camp his family his
parents
and he still found meeting he then
became a profound contributor to science
medicine and the Art of well-being so if
you want to find a little bit of extra
over this vacation and holiday break
this book will set you up it will lift
you up and give you a reason for being
and it will show you how to do it Mark I
am so excited about this one I couldn't
agree more Mike and I think to build
upon your epic introduction we can only
really hand over to Victor E Frankel
himself who's going to continue
introducing Today's Show episode 211 and
discuss one of the biggest insights and
ideas that he experienced and wrote
about within his book man search for
meaning and that's all about how you can
find meaning in despair
let me present you confront you with a
somewhat
strange definition of despair
as I'm used to
Proclaim against that despair
uh
can be explained
in terms of a mathematical equation D
capital V equals
s
minus M what does it mean despair is
suffering without meaning as long as an
individual cannot find cannot see any
meaning
in his or her despair he or she will
certainly be prone
to in its suffering I wanted to say no
meaning in the suffering he or share
with her will certainly depend to
Despair and under certain conditions to
Suicide but at the moment they can see a
meaning in their suffering they can mold
it into an achievement into a they can
mold their predicament into an
accomplishment on the human level they
can turn their tragedies into a personal
Triumph but they must know for what what
should I do with it but if people like
so many segments of present-day society
and population cannot find any meaning
whatsoever in their lives cannot see
anything meaningful they more often than
not have to to something to live by
or say at least enough to live by they
cannot see anything to live for what is
the answer to the question why me why
did this happen to me the answer to such
a question is nothing that a
psychiatrist or any other type of a
scientist can come up
but I would not share the opinion of say
jean-pusada who said we have to accept
and to show the courageously heroically
the absolute meaninglessness of our
lives but what I think is rather that
what we have to accept
is the incapacity of
our of our humanness the incapacity to
recognize the ultimate meaning in
intellectual or merely rational terms
this is the only thing we have to accept
still we may believe in a in Ultimate
meaning but to to lead someone say a
patient to to eat the way for him to
such a belief to Faith is of course not
the business or job to be carried out by
a psychiatrist but rather by a
theologian
I mean this is just Viktor Frankl laying
it on for a cinema there is so much
inside it is I don't know where to go
with it it's so full of ideas whether
you look at amazing athletic
performances that seem to defy human
capacity
as examples if you look at Victor
frankl's own story or if you look at
some of the inspiring people that we
have studied on this show I think we see
so many people encountering hardship
challenge despair they're getting so
uncomfortable and finding meaning in it
to me it there's so many places to go of
all that Spectrum Mark where do you
process this story this idea from Victor
Frankel
I I think you're right there's a lot of
connections and threads that we can
build to a number of different
individuals as well as series that we've
we've done but for me Mike based on
Victor frankl's equation that he shared
right at the very beginning D equals m
minus s despair equals suffering without
meeting meaning actually leads me back
towards our happiness series and uh
talben shahars the science of Happiness
even Neil plus reaches the happiness
equation the idea that you can apply a
mathematical or scientific uh almost
application towards interpreting what
you experience in your life and almost
not gamer fight but at least put it in
perspective
and put it in the awareness and the
memory that everything does move on you
know you're not stuck in one mindset or
one situation forever you can enter
another uh level let's call it depending
on how you interact and interpret that
situation you know I think the
invitation that Frankel's really or the
call out that Frank was really giving us
in that first introduction clip is the
fact that don't accept that life is
meaningless instead think about it as a
an opportunity to try and go out and
learn something from it see either a the
meaning in a certain experience or B
work on creating a meaning for yourself
that then allows you to get through
those challenges so when we talk about
um finding a meaning in life what are
some of the Practical examples that
you've seen which have inspired you
you're like ah they have meaning they
have purpose like where do we see this
I I saw that particularly when we were
doing the Dalai Lama show on the uh the
art of happiness that handbook for
living where the Dalai Lama broke down
the idea of your brain as well as the
concept of Happiness as a muscle
and the more you work out a muscle
whether it's going for a run lifting
heavy weights it can get stronger and
what I liked about that analogy is that
if you go out and and practice let's say
gratitude and you notice oh I love it
when the sky is this blue the next time
you see the sky is that blue you think
oh wow I really do like the fact that
the sky is blue and that concept to me
is a great demonstration of how you can
take ownership of your happiness it's
not a disconnected and the same I think
is true with despair which is where
Franco I think is taking us in his
autobiographical book
it isn't something that you just
experience and can't control you can
actually influence you know your
emotions whether they are happiness or
whether they are despair to a certain
degree based on how you are interpreting
things around you so when I am learning
from the Dalai Lama with regards to
happiness when I'm learning from Victory
Frankel with regards to Despair and
finding meaning I think they're both
great examples of how you can step back
and take control of how your brain
reacts to those events within your life
that perhaps feel like you're totally
out of control maybe you're in some kind
of spiral or you don't know which way is
up but actually you can control to a
certain degree how you are going to
react and take action against them yeah
it's the the power and the choice that
comes with saying you know I'm going to
focus on the things I control I'm going
to have a growth mindset and embrace
challenge knowing it's part of the
equation and I think also setting our
objectives to
goals and objectives that have real
meaning for us real impact and uh create
Good Vibes with others like doing things
that matter that help support Inspire or
entertain other people this has to be
part of the equation we're going to tear
it all down we're going to understand
what it takes and the whole system that
Franco presents to us but the first step
we're going to take it I think Mark
would only be fitting it which is to a
bit of a tip of the hat to our ever
growing cohort of patreon members
like these patreon members Mike they're
the individuals that we want to extend
huge thanks a support love and
appreciation to aren't they so please
welcome
Bob John Terry Ken dieettma Byron majan
Connor and Yasmine our patreon members
for over 12 months now but again as
usual hot on their heels are our other
members and subscribers including Lisa
Sid Mr bonjour and Paul Burke calman
David and Joe Crystal Ivo Christian and
hurricane brain samuela Kelly Barbara
and Andre Matthew Eric Abby Chris
Deborah Lassie Craig and Daniel Andrew
Ravi Yvette and LGV Raul PJ nicaro and
Ola Ingram Sarah Dirk Emily Harry cathic
venkata vipara Marco and our brand new
member sundis thank you so much for
everybody who's continuing support us
and brand new high fives and
appreciation to Sundays for joining us
on the moonshots Joe welcome and we are
eternally grateful for your choice to
support us and the great news is you
also have a choice when it comes to
thinking feeling and perceiving the
world around us so let's continue our
adventure into the work of Victory
Frankel manned search for meeting killer
book get it on your Christmas hamper
right now because we're going to hear
from wisdom for life and they're going
to bring to life this idea that you have
a choice you always have a choice
between stimulus and response there is a
gap and in that Gap is the ability to
choose how you respond to any given
situation there'll always be external
forces acting upon you that you can't
control such as the traffic weather and
so on what you can control are those
internal forces your response never
forget that you have the freedom to
choose your reaction it doesn't matter
what life throws your way what matters
is how you respond to the situation it's
your attitude towards your existence
that makes all the difference and in the
words of Viktor Frankl everything can be
taken from a man but one thing the last
of the human freedoms to choose one's
attitude in any given set of
circumstances to choose One's Own Way
you and you alone decide what your life
will be in the next moment man is
capable of changing the world and can
change himself for the better you have
the freedom to change at any instant
even in a concentration camp where you
have no Freedom at all you can behave
like a swine or a saint which one
depends on decisions not on conditions
so let's look at an example from the
book a man's wife died and he was
depressed so the doctor asked him what
if it was your wife that died she would
suffer no he says oh yes she would the
doctor says okay then you are the one to
take on the suffering instead of her
isn't that what you would prefer the man
says yes of course
so that's an interesting way to look at
the suffering did the situation change
no the only thing that changed was the
old man's attitude towards the situation
that's a great example of someone
finding meaning and suffering by
changing how they respond to the
circumstance it's not about your
situation it's about your attitude
towards your circumstances when we are
no longer able to change the situation
we are challenged to change ourselves
Mike this is a huge insight and it's one
that I think we've encountered within
the wisdom series but even on the
moonshot show outside of our
current series and in fact I'm call back
specifically to the stoics and the work
that we did on Ryan holiday the ability
to control one's attitude when perhaps
something goes wrong in our day-to-day
life let's say in my case I might get an
email or a telephone call or I might be
in a meeting and it doesn't quite go
right or maybe I'm out and about I get a
bad coffee somebody cuts me off on the
in the middle of the road whatever it
might be or the bus drive straight past
and doesn't stop for me I can choose to
become pretty grumpy maybe blame other
people maybe in fact it goes one step
further and that action maybe a bus
driving past without stopping for me can
then mean I am grumpy to my colleagues
or my wife or my family later
those things are being influenced by
somebody else's behavior and they are
changing my attitude and probably the
way that I would normally interact with
a certain example they're ultimately
changing my personality to a certain
degree what Franco is really calling out
and wisdom for life is helping
articulate In that clip is the fact that
you can't take away somebody's attitude
if that individual chooses to maintain
their attitude no matter what the
situation
so I think that's a really big call out
straight away don't you think uh I
cannot even begin to tell you personally
how much I've had to wrestle with this
one because you have a choice and and
it's like an intersection you can say
I'm gonna blame the world be angry at
the world be angry at others for the
situations that I'm in
or I can say hey this challenge was
meant to come my way I will be stronger
as a result which is total zaha did one
of my favorite shows we've ever done she
took all the challenges in life and said
they are literally building this this
kind of coat of armor on me I'm getting
stronger this is very much like Goggins
and I think that the the simple little
moments that I have where I have a
choice I had this the other day
had a busy day and I wasn't running it
was only a walk day so I went to my
favorite Cafe grabbed a coffee I was
walking drinking coffee spilled some
coffee and I got angry
and man it's just I didn't even spill
the whole lot it was just like a little
bit I didn't even get it on me uh and it
didn't go on any of my clothes it
literally got on maybe two fingers and
you know what I was so angry
and I know we all do this but that was a
choice at least I have the awareness and
I caught myself in the Moment Like Mike
get over it it's just coffee but the
point is that's like just one little
thing in life where you can just come we
can giggle about it can't we but whether
it's spilled coffee or spilled milk
it doesn't uh change when we talk about
when challenge adversity when discomfort
comes our way we do have a choice to say
hey I'm embracing this because this is
part of where I'm going this is what I
need to get done you know not hitting
the snooze alarm it's a choice choosing
daring to step into the arena as brene
brown would have us do that is a choice
and I cannot even like I have to go back
to this daily and weekly to make sure
that I'm being the best version of
myself and not taking the easy path the
path of where I'm like ah it doesn't
matter oh I don't have to do that I've
done so much this year who needs to work
hard today
but if I have a mission that's calling
me
that I should get up and not hit the
snooze button I should do the work
whether it's easy hard or everything in
between it is a fundamental choice that
we all have in front of us and I think a
lot of the time we fail
especially in our younger years to
appreciate that there is even this
Choice available to us mark
well yeah I couldn't agree more I think
similarly to some of the insights we
found on the show there's a lot of
elements within life that you never get
taught as a child and even in your young
career it's only through uh the
appreciation and digging into you know
these books and these life lessons and
learning out loud perhaps together are
certainly for me the ways that I can
learn about these different mindsets and
behaviors and I think you're totally
right Mike there's been plenty of times
whether it's coffee or whether it's an
accident that's that's happened or
whether it's just inspiring or
motivating myself to go out and work
hard today it's it's a daily daily
struggle for all of us
and the way that I like to try and
expose myself to those opportunities for
growth as Cara dewek would would call
out
is through uh trying to do something new
each day you know we've spoken about
mantras we've spoken about things that
Inspire us each day and make sure that
we stay on track with with what we're
trying to do one of my goals one of my
reasons for meaning I suppose you could
say is to try and be exposed to
something new each day maybe that's an
extra long cold shower something very
very simple maybe it's going out and
speaking to a neighbor or speaking to an
individual that I haven't I haven't
interacted with before
or maybe it's just looking up something
new on the internet maybe it's YouTube
whatever it might be trying to keep my
brain ticking over is a way that I find
a bit of meaning in my life because not
only do I enjoy it but it means that
when I do come up against you know let's
say with cold water the opportunity of
getting back into the ocean or it's a
bit cold I'm somehow stronger because I
have experienced it a little bit more
I've done a little bit of practice
exactly and I think once you
know that you have a choice on how you
wish to perceive events and things that
come towards you you're making one step
towards satisfaction fulfillment
reframing life and maybe as we're about
to hear you'll be on track for just a
little happiness
Victor Frankl he says again and again I
therefore admonish my students in Europe
and America don't aim at success the
more you aim at it and make it a Target
the more you're going to miss it for
Success like happiness cannot be pursued
it must ensue and it only does so as the
unintended consequence unintended side
effect of one's personal dedication to a
cause greater than oneself or as the
byproduct of one surrender to a person
other than oneself happiness must happen
and the same holds for Success you have
to let it happen by not caring about it
I want you to listen to what your
conscience commands you to do and go on
to carry it out to the best of your
knowledge then you will live to see that
in the long run in the long run I say
successful follow you precisely because
you had forgotten to think about it
it's amazing
so this idea that success cannot be
pursued it must ensue from our
commitment to something bigger than
ourselves we talk about this again and
again and again
um we're not going to go into details on
that right now but I will suggest what
is it that you're committed to think
about that what's the thing you're
committed to more than anything and we
can go after success and we'll get a
certain amount of success we won't have
the true deep sense of joy and
fulfillment and a deep connection to our
highest Source unless we're committed to
something bigger than ourselves and our
own little success and the irony is in
my own experience as we commit to this
thing that's bigger than us giving our
gifts to the world and greatest service
to the world success chases us
or Mike I mean there's only one word
that's really coming through in Brian
Johnson's breakdown of Victor Frankel
there and that's the idea of Legacy yeah
what are you committing to that's bigger
than yourself right this is like if for
our listeners who are probably tuning
into this you know just before the
vacation holiday Christmas break
um it's a big question and I think it's
a perfect thing to reflect upon as you
transition into a new year what are you
committing to what outcomes what impact
as you said Mark what Legacy do you wish
to have
how do you want to be remembered
um what's the thing that you want people
to recall it's a great way to gauge am I
on track or not am I fighting for the
right thing or not and when you really
hold that deep conviction
for this thing that you're committing to
it could be
something athletic an athletic goal
maybe a big swim or a big run maybe it's
just I'm gonna get up every single
morning at six o'clock and go for a walk
doesn't matter whatever you're
committing to whether it's the impact of
your work your craft your art the story
that you need to tell the impact or the
service that you are to others in this
world whatever it is
coming back to that writing about it
journaling about it sharing it making
sure that you are present and committed
in that cause or impact that you wish to
have becomes
[Music]
by stealth the path to feeling satisfied
with your day
fulfilled with your weak and maybe when
you reflect on your year you think I'm
really happy with this here I'm feeling
pretty good about it because you did
work that matters
and that's how when you know you're
doing work that matters you don't hit
the snooze alarm you get the hell out of
bed and do the work you grind it one
percent better every day
it is impossible I believe Mark to
continue grinding it out getting up
early like you jumping in the water when
it's really fresh and swimming you
cannot continue to do that if you're not
fighting for something bigger and I
think that is what a gift in the work of
Victor Frankel
I I think you're totally right and I
think again I'm hearing the connection
back to somebody like Neil pastries and
neopas Rich's happiness equation had
this idea about wanting nothing and
working hard doing anything in order to
eventually have everything and I think
there's a shared concept an Insight here
which is a don't aim at that success or
as Brian calls out you know donating our
happiness because it will be a byproduct
of going out without perhaps
expectations and just doing the grind
but in order to do the grind in order to
stay motivated I think you're totally
right having a the meaning and having a
reason for continuing is exactly how
Viktor Frankl would have would have
searched through gone through this idea
of the meaning behind the suffering and
despair is the only reason why he was
able to stay motivated enough to get
through the experience and then write
about and create a piece of work and
here's some of the crazy things mark
was given a way to escape
the concentration camp but declined the
opportunity because it was too important
to care as a doctor for the other people
still in the camp how insane is that
talk about fighting for something bigger
committing to a bigger idea than
yourself he gave up freedom to serve the
other inmates
yeah that that's selflessness is is a
pure moment of Legacy isn't it that's
something that he can look back at
during the rest of his life and know
that he he dug in deep worked hard and
that's something that I think we're all
striving to to try and do isn't it to
try and be the best version of ourselves
now
um Mark we actually did a whole Master
Series on finding purpose and we've done
lots of shows and there is a place out
there far far away on the wide world of
the internet where you can access all of
that isn't that right
I mean you could say it's a location
setting up on top of the Moon and that's
a place called
www.moonshots.io where you can go and
listen to all of our latest episodes
members you can find our show docs and
notes you can find reading lists host
information and eventually even become a
member and if you become a member you
can dig into our Master Series you can
listen to our breakdowns on the wisdom
of the stoics on goals as well as lean
startups and even happiness mic and we
also dug in deep into the idea of shared
visions and this idea of finding your
goals but you can only do that by
popping along to
www.moonshots.io signing up and also
checking out what else is to come in the
future yes so head over to moonshots dot
IO you will get everything you need to
make that choice as Victor Frankel would
say to choose your perception there's so
much inspiration there we have a whole
Master Series on happiness on purpose go
become a member you can get access to
the moonshot Master Series we got so
much going on over at moonshots.io and
we've got a lot going on on this show
Mark um just to kind of recap we are
breaking down the work of Victor E
Frankel his book man search for meaning
and it is one epically hugely popular
well-read it just it is a Timeless
classic it's it's one of our favorites
in the moonshots library and we have
realized through his work that it's all
a choice we can perceive the things
around us however we want we can Embrace
discomfort challenge we can overcome all
of the challenges that come our way
and if we commit to something bigger
than ourselves satisfaction fulfillment
and a dash of Happiness it's all there
for the taking
so this brings us to a very very
important point which is purpose how do
we have a purpose and the great news is
Mark we have a great clip from always
improving on YouTube and they're
bringing down the work of Victory
Frankel and answering the notion the
calling for having a purpose
you as a why to live can bear with
almost any hell Victor Frankl got
through the terrible time in the
concentration camp because he knew he
would take what he was learning from the
situation and write a book he knew that
that book would really help others he
chose to focus on how he was going to
help other people because of the
situation he was in and he didn't focus
on the terrible things that were
happening around him
he thought of something bigger than
himself
the way over prisoners got through the
camp was to be extremely generous giving
away some of their food to other
prisoners this would give them a huge
sense of purpose these prisoners gave
themselves a real purpose a reason to
keep going they had a big why because
they were staying positive for other
prisoners when you're working towards
something you find it much easier to
keep going if your main aim is something
bigger than yourself
big insight there Mike from always
improving breaking down Victory
Frankel's Insight here and I love this
um this call out the idea that if you
know what will you know help others or
if you know what your why is that's much
bigger than just yourself you know
making money or driving a nice car
whatever you're doing that is much
bigger than you that then inspires not
only yourself but even perhaps I think
what I'm hearing In that clip is you can
Inspire other people to do a similar
piece of behavior as well and that helps
the group Community whether it's
individuals who you're working with
maybe it's your family or even your
neighbors you can all go through it
together and I quite like that little
connection there as well is that
something that was standing out to you
in that clip this idea of community
connections
well I mean it just instantly makes me
go to the work of Simon cynic and start
with why
and this I mean how good is this he who
has a why to live can bear almost any
how and you know it just corresponds so
nicely with the work of Simon sinek
who's like people don't buy what you do
they buy why you do it and when he says
buy it's sort of bigger than just a
purchase in retail he's saying people
get into you want to be with you want to
be around your company your brand if
they are energized by the bigger Mission
because if there's a bigger Mission
that's not just about you but about them
or perhaps about us if we really raise
it up this is when people get excited
they become fans or friends
professionally personally if you are
clear on this Mission as an individual
or a brand or a business there is so
much to get from it think about it a
company that's got a really exciting
mission and vision of the impact they
want to have in the world has a much
easier time recruiting people than those
that don't
people who want to live a happy healthy
life they're just great to be around are
they mark
yeah exactly exactly and I think you are
um this build on Simon Sinex why is is
an interesting connection isn't it
because what we're now understanding and
learning is that the essential uh
concept around struggle is
transferable perhaps into this idea of
Entrepreneurship and business and you're
all any business is probably going to
have struggles with competition or
finances or dealing with
um managing people and so on unless you
have a
core direction that you're working
towards as a business and we do dove
into this and are achieving your goals
series as well with with okrs and and
managing um
the directions of kpis and so on
I think what I'm I'm hearing from from
that connection Mike is without a why
nothing whether it's business or
personal can really function to the best
of its ability unless you have a meaning
without unless you have a purpose unless
any of us have something that we are
getting up in the morning to go out and
do
what what inspires us what motivates us
to do anything and you know what as
you're talking there Mike where my brain
goes is oh hang on a second
like there's a real aha for me like if
you don't have a purpose as soon as the
struggle comes you are tempting the gods
of self-doubt
because let's think about it if you're
pursuing something that's hard
but you don't really believe in it
you're not really committed to it the
hardship starts and then you're like oh
man this is really hard I'm not sure if
I can put in the energy if I don't put
in the energy I'm going to look stupid
to others because this ain't gonna work
and this really
uh I cannot begin to tell you how much
when I was young
I was avoiding doing the hard work
avoiding the struggle for fear of
failing publicly
and so when I reflect on this
here's the interesting thing when you
really gave it everything you got
because you really cared about it the
outcome is kind of like the technical
outcome is
marginal in the end because you left it
all on the field to use a great sporting
analogy you gave it everything you got
so you know you worked hard you couldn't
have worked any harder
things will be what they will be and you
accept those
but it's when you haven't signed up in
your heart for something when you
haven't signed up and committed it to
your mind into your habits as soon as
the the rough waves come you abandon
ship and go back to shore don't you
yeah and actually to to build on that
Mike for me in my career particularly
when I was younger I struggled with
understanding what the point of of doing
you know a particular job was because I
didn't have the meaning I didn't have
the purpose so the feeling of not
knowing what you're trying to work
towards the feeling of not really
knowing why you're doing something is is
an incredible uh a very easy path to
follow to feel dissatisfied everything
might be great you might be getting uh
maybe good friends good relationships
maybe even good money but not really
having a direction in your mind that
you're comfortable with and this is
something I never really worked on again
going back to the idea that you don't
really learn about this stuff until you
perhaps have exposure to to these
lessons from individuals such as victory
Frankel without having the advice to go
out and be satisfied with the direction
that you've carved out for yourself
you don't really go and do anything
there's no meaning there's no
inspiration there's no motivation to go
out and try and work on yourself or go
and do a race or go out and work your
hardest you you just kind of kind of
flounder yeah so this
what are you fighting for what are you
committed to that's just bigger than you
said differently are you really striving
to have impact on people around you are
you looking to bring some positivity
some life Improvement or solving a
problem that others have
this is like profoundly important if you
want to be the very best version of
yourself not in the future but I'm just
talking if you want to wake up with some
energy some juice in the engine and
ready to go every day you have to have
this because we know life is full of
compromises mistakes and learnings and
if you don't have this inner driving
force of will commitment mission and
vision to something Beyond yourself
you're going to be halfway out to see
the seas are going to get big you're
going to turn around you're going to
come in and say forget it I'm not
navigating this one
and if we don't make
the choice
for vision mission impact and purpose
we're going to be sitting on the shore
watching others Sail Out and feeling not
so great about the world I'm guessing by
yeah exactly without that
um inspiration or guidance yeah you're
not going to find a reason to be patient
with others to go out and do your best
work if anything for me Mike uh it goes
back to the blame game the easy route is
to point the finger and blame somebody
else so I think if you and we all and I
mean the first thing here and this has
been a big theme on the wisdom series
everybody faces self-doubt everybody is
prone to judgment or questioning
themselves those that succeed get
through that
so again you know David Goggins talks
about how hard it is to get out and go
for a run sometimes and I'm really glad
to hear that because he does some big
runs like 100 miles
so the the difference between Michael
um I want to stop
foreign
the difference is that when you have
this energy force that you've decided to
have of purpose you will every day stick
to it get a little bit better every day
you will get more and more ambitious in
your goals in your dreams because you
will uncover the potential that lies
within us and that is that we have these
choices and if we fight for something
big we can do something big every single
day Mark I think this is really exciting
because this is reaffirming to us at a
really important times you transitioned
into a new year to ask ourselves what
are we really fighting for writing down
our purpose sharing our purpose going to
the moonshots archive and listening to
the old shows about purpose this is one
big Refresh on our why
I think you're totally right Mike it is
uh timely uh moment if ever there was
one to pick up that journal pick up your
icky guy revisit the shows on finding
finding why exactly what this is it and
you know again it's something that we've
really uh delved into uh within this
this wisdom show a series Mike if unless
you really have that um confidence and
comfort then you're not really going to
go out and give it your best go and for
me it's certainly something that uh I
need to revisit quite regularly and the
great news is you can if you write it
down I've got goals for 2023 I had goals
for 2022 that I'll try and write I
haven't written my 2023 yet I need to do
it before uh before the beginning of the
year just guiding principles things that
I might want to consider maybe things
I've been putting off for a while or
behaviors that I want to have for those
who I'm collaborating with or who are
around me all the time revisiting them
whether they're in a journal or on your
phone
they can be great signposts as you go
down that Journey that Journey like we
found out on the wisdom series with
um Don Miguel Reyes you know the full
agreement
I think it's a wonderful little uh
narrative story of going down the root
of life but actually Mike we're all on
that route of life we can all choose
which paths to take and those guiding
principles are what keeps you on the
right yeah so on that note it is only
fitting that we return to Victor Frankl
himself
and see what he has to say about you
know getting confident
getting comfortable with discomfort may
be embracing the hardship so here is for
the final time Victor Frankl giving some
thoughtful advice to youngsters
most of us have never been in the
concentration camp experience we've
never had to go through that horror and
tragedy and so one would think that
today
it would be easier to find meaning in
life and yet I sense it it's more
difficult in a sense today than it
wasn't years past do you think that
you're absolutely right so why is it
because we are living in a society
either in terms of an affluent society
or in terms of a welfare state as we in
Austria are living in
anyway
these types of societies
virtually or at least they are out
virtually to satisfy and gratify each
and every human need
except for one need the most basic and
fundamental need operant in man the need
for meaning
uh consumer societies even creating
needs
but the need for meaning or as I'm used
to referring to it the way to meaning
remains unfulfilled
it's what I'm used to
calling recently
the unheard cry for meaning
you scarcely will find any reference to
what is the most fundamental and basic
concern of man
neither pleasure nor happiness nor power
prestige
but originally and basically His Wish
his desire
to find and fulfill a meaning in his
life or for that matter
in each single life situation
confronting him and if there is a
meaning to fulfill if he's aware if if
he becomes cognizant of such a meaning
then he is ready to suffer
he is ready to offer sacrifices he is
ready to undergo tension stress and so
forth without any harm being done to his
to his health
but if there is no meaning available no
meaning in in his visual field
then he takes his life
can you imagine this a situation for a
human being which is more full of stress
than Auschwitz
and virtually all neurotic
symptomatology
disappeared in Auschwitz
and the degree to which suicide took
place in Auschwitz and Dakota was
astonishingly astonishingly surprisingly
low and on the other hand
in the welfare state of Austria
a teacher showed me a list of questions
his his students his pupils were allowed
to ask him and you know what was top
ranking on the list as to the frequency
of the questions see suicide among
youngsters of 40 to 15 years of age in a
welfare state such as Austria
suicide
there were virtually no stress or
tensions because they are pampered
nobody allows himself to challenge them
what young people need are ideals and
challenges personal tasks and and to
begin with in the first place examples
personal examples but not the cowards
who are coward people who don't venture
to confront them with anything because
they might become angry because they are
challenged
neither parents nor School teachers
are courageous enough to challenge them
don't arouse tensions don't create
tensions don't put stress on them see
people are today they are not over
demanded they are under demanded
Mike a meaty confronting but appropriate
closer an outro clip for our episode on
Victory Franco's man search for meaning
I think the key thing for for me Mike as
we come to condense what we've learned
from this book is the connection with
the growth mindset again and as Victor
Frankel's calling out that clip the
meaning of life in it to to condense I
think what he's saying the meaning of
life is to actually train yourself to
find meaning in every moment of life
and when you have got to that that state
and what I mean by that is uh to find
meaning in sitting down and recording a
podcast or finding meaning in taking the
dog for a walk or finding meaning in
waiting in line for a coffee or the bus
or the meaning in a stressful email
coming in from from somebody at work if
you can get to that level then suddenly
everything that you encounter is
something to uh to be passed nothing is
permanent because you can look at
stressful moments as well as happy
moments as opportunities that you know
just come up there's no Blame Game
there's no poor me it's just an event
that you're going along with it's like
the waves on of an ocean you're just
Rising it crazy though for him to talk
about all these people living in Comfort
having a higher suicide rate than
Auschwitz or some concentration camp and
it is like the ultimate scientific test
of you need to be fighting for something
and you you will be amazed at your own
fortitude and capacity this is what
David Goggins talks about so much we
don't even realize what we can do until
we put our mind to something until we
fight for something and I think that
if we want to have an alert system if it
should be this
we're getting too comfy
if it's all getting too easy there's no
stretch goals they talk about good okrs
being those that have real stretch like
you should never achieve all of your
objectives and key results because then
you've said it too easy there's always
got to be a bit of stretch likewise
there's always going to be a little bit
of discomfort because that's when you're
growing if you're going to the gym and
you never saw after it then you would
question am I working out enough right
yeah it's actually so surely the same
goes with life and that's what we've
just learned beautiful
what what a great call to action as we
end this wisdom series from Victory
Frankel saying to all of us
go out and embrace those difficult
moments because that is when you are
growing that's when you are stretching
those muscles that's when you are
adapting so that you are better at the
fight or flight or just putting up with
challenges and obstacles what a great
call to action mic I mean beautiful
beautiful piece of work Mark I want to
ask you out of all of the things we
could take from Victor Frankel's world
what's going to get your attention
what's going to get your follow-up
um I I think the core uh piece for me is
the idea of uh agreeing and meaning the
the concept of having a meaning and a
why and a reason for going out and being
being the core Focus so that I can uh
always you know stay on the right path
but also interpret obstacles as moments
to just become maybe a little bit better
and A Little Bit Stronger at that
ultimate goal of of why what about you
Mike what's what's standing out from
today's show I think as as we're doing
the show it just is screaming to me that
I need to refresh rewrite my purpose I
need to remind myself of it I need to
bring it to life and do some work on
that so that I have the ultimate Turbo
Charge which is fighting for something
bigger than myself
well some good homework for all of us I
want to thank you Mark for your
contribution as we studied the work
today of Victor E Frankel but more
importantly I want to thank you our
listeners and members for joining Mark
and I on this journey into man search
for meaning show 211 studying the work
of Victor E Frankel and boy what a show
it was and it began with this idea is
there is meaning in everything even in
Despair and we have a choice we have the
freedom to choose how we react to any
situation and if we do that Frankel's
idea of Consciousness and success comes
through the commitment fighting for
something bigger than ourselves said
differently we must have a purpose
because it's the ultimate energy source
because as life is known to do it will
bring us Challenge and we shall overcome
because we're going to Learn out Loud
together we're going to be the best
version of ourselves and that's what we
can do together here on the moonshots
podcast okay that's a wrap