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You’re tired.
Not just physically; though yeah, that too.
You’re tired in your bones. In your soul.
Trying to be a steady husband, an intentional dad, a man of God… but deep down, you feel like you’re falling short. Like you’re carrying more than you know how to hold.
Dad Tired is a podcast for men who are ready to stop pretending and start healing.
Not with self-help tips or religious platitudes, but by anchoring their lives in something (and Someone) stronger.
Hosted by Jerrad Lopes, a husband, dad of four, and fellow struggler, this show is a weekly invitation to find rest for your soul, clarity for your calling, and the courage to lead your family well.
Through honest stories, biblical truth, and deep conversations you’ll be reminded:
You’re not alone. You’re not too far gone. And the man you want to be is only found in Jesus.
This isn’t about trying harder.
It’s about coming home.
Hey guys. Welcome back to the Dad Tired podcast. Today's episode is brought to you by Range Leather. If you're watching this on Spotify or on YouTube, you can see I'm wearing a dad tired range leather hat here. This was custom made just for our dad tired audience. You can get that@shop.dad tire.com. Uh, but you can learn all about the leather goods that Range Leather is putting out by going to Range leather.com.
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Steven, bro. So excited to have you on the podcast today, man. I came across, um, a short piece of content on Instagram where you gave like a, a one minute. Clip of your testimony. Yeah. And I was like, holy cow. That is so powerful. Yeah. Uh, I wanna get into your story, but before we do, maybe just tell the audience who you are and what you're up to these days.
Uh, yeah. No, I do full-time. You know, songwriting, worship leader, traveling, uh, you know, uh, seeing people come to Jesus. You know, it's like, um, you know, at the time of recording this that we're going on tour opening this fall for Maverick City. So that's kind of a big tour this year. Um, probably the thing that God's done the most is kind of opened the gates for me is a song called Come Jesus Come Where, uh, just kind of taken off and allowed me not to really build my platform, but I hope, uh, build his kingdom right?
Yeah. Um, so yeah, it's been a wild ride and through it all. I am a dad, three boys. Um, my wife and I have been together, gosh, together 28 years, married, 22. Damn. Um, and, uh, yeah, just, just it's been a wild ride. Wow. How old are your boys? I. Uh, well, 20. Wow. Uh, wow. 17 and nine. Dang, dude. So we've, we've got the all, we've got the all boys.
We have whole spectrum, but it's kids. Amazing. Do you ever get to the point, did you ever get to the point, uh, in your life where like you kind of lose track of who's your peers and who, like, here's what I mean by this. I. I spent the last week at a camp, A family camp. Yeah. And it was with WinShape and they're, they're incredible, but they assign you like counselors, your family counselors for the week.
And um, these are college students who basically, they just go over the top on customer service. They're just there to serve you 24 7. Incredible. Love that. Um, yeah. But, so we had two college age girls with our family the whole time. Just like helping out with the kids, serving, I mean, just doing incredible job.
And the whole time I'm like thinking to myself like. We're kind of the same age, you know, like we're kind, we're kind of in the same, same season of life. You know, I'm just like, at some point I realized like, I think we could, like, we're just almost old enough to be their parents, and I'm like, this is right.
You're right. Right, right. Yeah. Super. Like when you said you have a 20-year-old, you're just like, how did that happen? I have no gauge for like who my peers are. I'm like, am I like, should I be friends with like the 70-year-old? Am I like with the college students, you know? Yeah. I don't, I, you know, it's.
It's all over the board for me too, so, uh, I get it. But yeah. You know how, how many, I definitely feel, I feel more like a father at this stage in my life than I probably ever have. Okay. What do you mean by that? What I mean by that is like, I feel like I'm in a place where the Lord uses me to speak into people more.
Than just to be like another person. Yeah. In the room. Does that make sense? Yeah, totally. I, that I, we felt the same way because they, these college students are asking us like about marriage and about family and at some point, pretty quickly I realized, I'm like, we're not peers. Like Right. They're looking at us like we're the old couple and uh, right.
And yeah, there is some joy in that. Like, okay, we have experienced some stuff in life. Maybe we can, you know, help out and speak into a, a generational contest. Yeah. Sometimes it's not even like you're the old couple. Maybe it's more like they've done what I haven't yet and, uh, I wanna learn. Yeah. And that's wisdom and humility on their part.
Anytime you have someone that is that age that realizes there's something to learn from, uh, people that have gone before you, that's humility, man. That's the beginning. Wisdom a hundred percent. A hundred percent. Will you not to make this podcast interview about the, the last week I had at this family camp.
No, that's great. Yeah. I will say like being around college aged students, there was no technology. They didn't have their phones with, they weren't even allowed to have their phones. And we had, the service was very spotty anyway, so we were basically sitting around a lake for a week with these young people.
Oh. And to hear their hunger for the Lord bro was like. Super refreshing. Like soup, like young. Yeah. Hunger for the Lord. No. Yeah. Uh, we're seeing a lot of that right now too, even with our boys, you know, like my, my son this 40 got up and went to 6:00 AM prayer week. Yeah. Wow. I was like, well, don't wake me up.
I'm kidding. But anyways, you know, it's all good. Were you, uh, so I, I heard a piece of your story, but were you following Jesus the whole time that you're like, when did you come to know Jesus then? How much of your boys' life did they get to experience you trying to follow Jesus and decipher him? I've known Jesus their whole life.
Okay. Yeah. Okay, so when, when was like the, uh, well just, let's just back up dude, and, and make Sure, sure. Kind of dig into that story that you shared, that short form clip with. So, yeah, my testimony is a big part of my ministry and what I do and, you know, we're even right now in the process of a book with Sonder Van that comes out next year, just tell my story.
Nice. And uh, you know, the idea behind it isn't to, uh, it's really just to, um, spur people on and to encourage people. And, uh, hopefully people walk away going, oh my gosh, that's real. Like it's all real. Yeah. And, um, he can actually do something that seems impossible. Right. So ultimately, you know, at the end of the day, I grew up, my dad was a traveling evangelist.
You know, we have those still, but it's not quite as prominent as it was when I was younger. Yeah. It was in his eighties. Yeah. So my dad, yeah. Yeah. My dad was a traveling evangelist, and so we spent all of our time in church camps all across the country, right? Mm-hmm. And the thing is, is that I would see my dad get up and preach about Jesus.
Behind a pulpit. And honestly, he was good at it. We could see people get saved. It was wild. Right. But behind closed doors, I would literally see my dad physically abuse my mom. And it was brutal. And we would, you know, this is what I watched throughout my entire childhood, most of my childhood. Wow. And it's, it's a special, just special kind of trauma, right?
Yeah. Uh, not to make light of it, but it is, it's this, it's this thing that steers into you, but when you add to it that your God represented Jesus and. Religion or Christianity, all these, he, he represented those things to me and so I associated that with him, right? And went, okay, if God's real, he's not good, and I don't want anything to do with this Jesus guy, and I don't want anything to do with Christianity.
So at a very young age, like my earthly father and my heavenly father became the villains in my story. Right. Was that like a, um, conscious, like, do you remember like a day that you made that decision or was it just the slow burn? Like No, it was a slow burn. It was just the air watching it. I just went, no, you know, I can't pinpoint a specific moment.
But it was there and I think at like 11 years old I started smoking and drinking and marijuana and you know, breaking and entering and all kinds of crazy stuff. But yeah, you know, throughout that time I'm doing all that. By the time I'm 15, I'm uh, uh, you know, you doing like, you know, selling drugs, cocaine, pills, you name it.
By the time I'm seven sorry. Yeah, sorry to interrupt. I just wanna like kind of dig into these portions, especially because they're. Your dad's listening who have 11 year olds right now, you know, how did, like, was your dad involved? How do, how do you kind of get into this nefarious activity with him ministry?
Was he not super present with you? So, okay, we, we could do this like this. So, you know, one of the things is, is like when I was younger, my, my dad did all that stuff, but around 10 or 11 years old, um, he. Stopped physically abusing my mom. My mom almost left him, in my opinion, by the way. And don't take this grain of salt.
I whatever, I, she probably should have left him. It wasn't safe. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But for whatever reason, she stayed and he didn't touch her again. But there was this whole like, act like nothing ever happened, kind of junk that people do. Okay. Um, there's this part of. In people I feel like, where when you do something that truly hurts other people and is traumatizing, but your whole life is built around, let's say, you know, like being the person that represents Jesus and your ministry, um, the, the idea is to just pretend like it didn't happen and bury it.
And so in that way it was like never talked about again. It was crazy. Mm-hmm. I feel like there was this part of my dad, he was just tuned out. Like did not exist in my life at all, like at all. And I don't know, I think now as I think through a lot of that, I think there was probably this part of him and you know, maybe other parents can relate where you go.
I don't have the right to even parent. Oh yeah. And I'm just gonna tune out and if I, if I get involved at all, you know. Um. I may have to deal with something. Yeah. Like, like it could have been some of his shame just paralyzed him from, for some of us, we build a false reality. That's a self-protection thing because we can't deal with what we did.
Right. Um, and so we can't let it slip in or everything just comes crashing down. Uh, and before we go any further, my story, let me just say this. Be because. I think the problem with this is for a lot of people is we think honestly, repentance is the key, is critical, right? And it's this almost archaic sounding word that when we hear it, you know, um, for a lot of people growing up, it's become a taboo.
The idea of repentance, I mean, all you gotta do is look around today and you see all these. These like celebrity Christian pastors of these people that have fallen, uh, been caught, um, in some sin and all this kind of junk. Right? And part of it is there's this thing where they think of repentance and actually dealing with this thing they associate with it.
Uh oh, I'll be in trouble. I'll get canceled. Um, all these things right in the Bible. Okay. In the Bible it's just freeboard. Every time repentance is meant mentioned or reference what's associated with it is this blessing. Like God's trying to pull us from this thing that's hurting us. Yeah. So we can turn to this thing that is life, that is blessing.
Acts three, 19 and 20, Peter literally says, repent, so that the time of refreshment will come from the Lord. Wow. There's. There's this healing, there's this stuff that happens on the other side of repentance, but we've associated with it this negative thing. Right? And I, I believe that was part of that for my dad, that he just kind of wasn't around.
So here I am, uh, you know, 15 years old, selling drugs, all this kind of stuff. Around 17, I become a full out crystal meth addict. I'm using crystal meth every day for over six years, and I'm the guy, like I said, that, that hates Christianity. Uh, he's at the worst place ever. I remember being up for like three days straight in a car and thinking to myself, you're gonna die at a young age, but you can't quit.
So it is what it is like coming to terms with that, really coming to terms with that. Wow. Um, that's a pretty dark place to be. And this is where I was and I really was the guy too at this time, where if you mentioned Jesus around me, I was either gonna cuss you out or try to knock you out. Right. I was just a mess.
And. Somebody, people were praying for me, like really praying for me to come to Jesus. And along the way somebody gave me this book called The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel. Um, and this is probably the most miraculous part of the story 'cause I accepted the book without an incident. I was just kind like, whatever.
And you know, through it. On a side table laced to my bed or something, and fast forward, it's three o'clock in the morning. I'm literally in this bed with drugs on the side table next to me for whatever reason. Uh, I believe it was a supernatural or something. I'm reading this book and long story short, I like get into it and I'm like getting sucked in and there, uh, as I recall, I think there's a part in the book where there's this guy basically like goes, God, if you're real.
I need to know, you know? And I think in that moment I kind of had that same epiphany, like, wait, if you're real, I need to know this. And if, and I think in that moment as I was reading this book and had this whole thing, I like realized he was in the room. Like, like I knew it. You know what I mean? Like you just, I just knew he was there.
I knew he was with me. I knew it was real in this moment, and I was like, God, I wanna give you my life. I wanna quit all this stuff. I wanna quit all this addiction, all this anger, all this darkness, all this, ugh, that I've known for so long. I don't, but I can't. There's literally no way. No way. Yeah. However, 11 years of my life, this is all I've known.
I can't imagine being someone else. I just remember like this thought that wasn't mine, uh, that I knew couldn't come from me, and it was, uh, Steven, you won't do it. I'll do it. And this is the, like the Ephesians two eight thing, right? Mm-hmm. You're saved by grace. Yeah. Uh, this isn't something you can boast about.
It's a work of God, right? Uh, but there is a work the father asks of you, is that John 6 29. It says, the only work the father asks of you is to believe. And that was it. That's what I did. I just, I believed it, dude. Like, for what it's worth, I believed it. Like I believe I'm breathing air right now. Like I just knew it and I fell to my knees, gave my life to Jesus in this room.
Ugly crying. Uh, I knew enough growing up to kneel what to do, right? And, um, that was it. I literally quit everything. I literally. Uh, I, you know, and I say to that, people go, well, you can't say that. You just quit everything like that. And I'm like, well, take it up with Jesus when you get to heaven what it is.
But the other thing is this, in the gospels, Jesus never healed anyone the same way twice. Yeah. Every story has a purpose, man. And if you feared hearing this and you're a dad and you're struggling, or you're whatever, you're, you know, a husband and you're struggling it. If it takes five times, not saying that you wanna take five times, but if it does, don't disqualify yourself.
Because even if it takes five times, you fall his feet and you mean it, and you're done and you turn to him and you, you know, he's gonna do more with your life from there than you ever could have. It's, it's amazing. And, uh, there's a lot of grace in that. A lot of, there's a ton of grace in it. I think we often, as men and honestly people in general, I.
We, we all have a, a door, metaphorically speaking, like a room, a thing. We leave shut up, locked up and in It is the most horrible, gross, disgusting thing we've ever done. And we go, no, nobody look in there. Yeah. If you look in there, you will never talk to me again. Right. But Jesus kicks that door down. He is like, I want her.
I want him. Mm-hmm. Um. That's the crazy thing about the gospel. That's the good news. The gospel means good news and that's why it's good news. Um, and as men, we feel like we have to earn something. Yeah. And um, you can't earn what, what he has done. You can accept it. That's it, dude. What an powerful story. So God shows up.
I wanna dive into that. Sure. A little bit more in a minute, but God shows up. You're reading this book, which by the way, I, I've probably heard two stories this week of how God used that book specifically to like save somebody. Um, it's pretty crazy. Uh, Lee and I are friends now. Oh, cool. Him, mark Middleburg are probably why I'm, I, I even am writing this book.
Mm-hmm. Lee said he would write the foreword for it. And I just think about like God's story, right? You think about like, you're, you're, you go back 20 years ago to the me in that room and you say, Hey, you, you're gonna one day, um, write a book about your story and God's gonna use it, and the guy whose book you're reading is gonna write the forward.
That's insane. You can't make that stuff up. And I mean, yeah. It's crazy and that's what's so beautiful about the Lord. It's like, man, he writes the best stories. Yeah, he does crazy. I need to reach out to Lee and have him on the podcast. 'cause it, yeah, he should. He's great. Yeah. Um, okay, so you, you read the book, God supernaturally shows up in your life that night.
What do you, two weeks, fast forward two weeks from that day, what are all the people in your life saying? 'cause dude, like most people aren't having that kind of story. You know? Yeah. What, what's everyone saying? I was literally, I was literally, and here's the thing, I keep saying this, and it sounds so dumb, like to say this as a Christian, but it's all real.
Like it's real. And it's, um, sometimes you gotta say that and you gotta actually close everything out. We're doing a lot of stuff in ministry. We go to church every week. Yeah, we do all this stuff, but oh my gosh, it's real. Okay, now. I know that I'm always holding onto that, but in that moment, when I stepped outta that room and that everything got changed, I literally was the guy going around and people going, oh my gosh, it's real, dude.
Oh my gosh. And people were like, okay. See you later. You know, like, I think pretty much everyone I knew kind of disappeared. Mm-hmm. Um, my girlfriend, who was my fiance now is my wife. Mm-hmm. Obviously she ended up giving her life to Jesus too. She was watching me see if I'm meant it, and, uh, she ended up getting saved.
And, um, crazy thing is, uh, not too long after that, we, we were getting married, right? And. This is crazy. I, uh, remember one of the first things that I felt like the Lord called me to do was to forgive my dad. Now, just hold on because as, as people, the justice part in us goes, you can't do that. Mm-hmm. This guy did something so terrible.
Mm-hmm. He didn't repent. Really? Mm-hmm. He didn't do the things he should do. He hasn't earned. You going and forgiving him. Really? Um, I was like almost mad at the idea, right. But I knew was what I was supposed to do. Now this doesn't like, like the Lord's still taking care of stuff, right? He's still, this will let him off the hook.
Everything that's hidden will be made known, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, this is the way it is, but I knew I was supposed to do this. Um. It was not a magical moment. There was no like, old beam of light coming in the room, bird on my shoulder. It looked just freaking awkward, man. It was horrible. And I just remember going to my dad being so, you know, uh, I just felt like Lord told me to tell you, I forgive you.
You know, that kind stuff. And I, and he was just looking at me like a deer in headlights. Mm. Because like I said, you just don't even know how to like reality. You know what I mean? Like, he's never, he can't even address it still at this point. Yeah. But here's the thing about forgiveness. Forgiveness is about a debt, like a legitimate debt.
Maybe if somebody is caused in your life, right? Yeah. That is do on you. Now, they still are gonna carry around the guilt of that thing. They're still gonna deal with that thing until they bring it to Jesus to later repent and deal with it. But on my end, I have this vent that I can rip up. Mm-hmm. And throw away.
Mm-hmm. Just like Jesus did with me. And that sounds like a cheesy Sunday school lesson, but it's actually real. And what you're doing is you are setting yourself free. Yeah. From that thing, right. And now what's going on with your dad and all this, the stuff that needs to be now, that's the Lord and him.
And he, you know what he's done. I am now gonna set this thing free. Right. Right. I'm not saying it was that cut and dry. I'm still, you know what I mean? Yeah. So what were you, something happened in that dude where we, my dad ends up baptizing me and my wife Wow. And performs our wedding ceremony. Wow. And again, I'm, I'm not saying like everything was perfect.
There was some healing Yeah. And, and stuff. But I say all that to say. People hear my story and they go, oh, I'm a child that went through that and I, or I'm somebody that gets that as a son or a daughter or whatever. Right. But there are fathers and parents that were the ones that wounded people. Mm-hmm.
And they don't know how to heal. They don't know how to go back and deal with it. They don't know how to address this thing. Even they are not disqualified. From the grace of God. And that doesn't mean that maybe you won't be a pastor anymore. That's fine. Right? Dude, who cares? Your identity isn't wrapped in just that you're a son of the living God and he wants to heal you and make you new.
And this is the, this is the important thing about the gospel is that we look at it from the perspective of people, but God's ways are not, not n. It's, it's good what he's wanting to do, right? Yeah. Gain the whole world, but hard, but hard but hard. Yeah. What, uh, you know, fast forward 20 years, how did, how did things end, or were you at with your dad now?
Okay, so my dad passed away from cancer mm-hmm. Over 10 years ago. Mm. Um, you know, it, it was as good as it could be on this side of Eaternity. Yeah. Um, and. Not perfect, but as good as it could be. Yeah. And I would've loved to have seen him get more, uh, you know, like actually a deal with it, but, you know, that's between him and the Lord.
You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I heard, uh, somebody say whatever's not, um, it was John Tyson. He, he does a training for Rite of Passage. Uh, stuff. And in the rite of passage, I think he was quoting someone, I can't remember who he's quoting, but he said, uh, whatever's not transformed is transferred.
So was there anything, was there any part of your journey with your dad that you had to deal with or you're dealing with as you're now a dad? Oh, I mean, you know, I, it's, it's it weird. I feel like, uh. When I was in addiction and stuff, I was dealing with a lot of the anger and stuff that he had. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean?
Mm-hmm. But, uh, once I got saved, like for real, gave my life to Jesus, I right away knew who I was supposed to be. Right? Mm. I don't know. I'm not saying I'm, I'm perfect. I'm just saying like, um. We've been pretty blessed. Like my kids are, they love the Lord. We, I think maybe there's that RE every day where you're like, don't be like your dad.
Don't be like your dad. You know what I mean? So. Mm-hmm. I think probably the biggest part for me being a father today and having kids that love the Lord and, um, men now that love the Lord. Right. Uh, I think it's the authenticity like. I've had to live out of the overflow, like this place where nobody's watching.
Yeah. And mean it there. Yeah. Mean it there. Yeah. So that when I'm on a stage Lee worship or speaking or being a dad, it's now the overflow of who I am when nobody's watching. Yeah. Right. And for my kids, it's also been the moments where his mom and I get their mom and I get in a fight and we stop and go, Hey.
Sorry about that. We love you guys and mommy, daddy are okay, but yeah, we shouldn't have yelled at each other, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's the authenticity. It's the ability to like actually humble yourself, but still be your parent that actually makes you look stronger in their eyes than it does look weak.
Totally. Was there any part of your story that, uh, kind of messed with you when it came to church and like church leadership? Yeah. You know, I think probably carried some of that over. Like, there's always that part of me that's like, um, that I keep in check where there's like, I'm almost looking outta my side of my eye and everybody going, Hmm, I wonder about you, you know?
Right. Totally. Uh, and, you know, all these spirit's pretty good about like discernment. Like the discernment and stuff. Yeah. You know, uh, it is an interesting thing. I think if you think about it, man, like being a pastor of a church. Today in America, if you're a successful church, uh, it is hard to keep humility, inact.
It's hard to, uh, because you start getting elevated to this place you're not supposed to be. And I'm not down. I love the church. I love pastors. I love all these people are friends. We go to a church, so don't, you know, don't hear that. I'm not a deconstructionist. I'm not trying to be, you know, so I'm just saying like.
Something happens when you're on a stage and people are watching you, you're the same, that it's not normal. It's just not like Jesus is what it's all about. Like totally the word and like leading people to follow him and, and some places do that really well, but you know, a lot of places where it's very hard.
Um. So, yeah, you know, we're seeing a lot of pastors fall. We're seeing a lot of things happen, and we shouldn't be too surprised because it's, it's, you know, we're elevating a person to a place sometimes that's really not healthy. You know, Matt Chandler says, when you make much of God, people tend to make much of you.
And, um, I think, I think that that's accurate. Uh, I always think about, I always think about the verse, um, Joshua one, where. The baton is being passed from Moses to Joshua. Yeah. And it starts out by saying, Moses, my servant is dead. Like that's the sentence, Moses, my servant is dead. And then it just moves on and you're just like, shouldn't we like.
Have some talk about Moses. Like that dude just played a major role in, in the, in the previous several chapters and book. And uh, and you kind of get the sense that God's like, I don't really like, this is not about the leaders I choose. Like they come and go. The story's about me. And I always just remember that.
Yeah, it's true, man. I mean, there is, she doesn't take much, you just look over history. You see super famous people that are a really big deal and it reminds us, okay, wait a minute, we're, yeah. Like, this is not about you, dude. Nobody cares. Uh, when, when did you start playing music? Oh my gosh, since I was a kid, I was in metal bands.
Even throughout all of my addiction and stuff, metal, I wouldn't have, I would've assumed metal bro. I would've assume like kind like the head, the soulful, bluesy. So when I got early on in my twenties, I was in a, after I got say to kind of help pay the bills, we can cover music or restaurants and stuff mean some and like some bars.
But I was a Christian and other Christians played with me and yeah. Yeah. But we did, um. Motown r and b, like Motown cover band where we did four hours a night, four days a week. Like Otis Redd. Yeah. Yeah. But in my teens and throughout all those years from like 13 on, I was in metal bands and like screaming my head off.
Really? Yeah. I would've, uh, yeah. Well I listen to your stuff now. I'm just like, bro, that dude's got some soul.
Is that what you like singing? What do you like singing? What's your thing? I love, I love singing soul music. I love singing soulful stuff. That's my favorite. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, bro, you're crushing it. You're just like, my kids are, I'll play in the car. When, when we set up this interview, I was like, playing some of your stuff in the car.
My, my 13-year-old, he just like loves soul. He's in the shower just singing like soulful stuff. He just belting out your song. Oh, fun. What made you write that? What made you write the The come Jesus Come. Yeah. So where was your head at? Well, it was the beginning of the pandemic. I wasn't trying to write a hit song.
I was trying to like mean it, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, I was reading Revelation, um, 22 verse 17. And it was that moment where you're like, you know, you read something in the Bible many times, but this one time you read it, it's like you've never read it before. Right. You know what talking about? And it was, uh, it says Revelation 2217 says the spirit and the bride says, come.
And I read it. I went, wait a minute. The Spirit, that's the Holy Spirit, that's the spirit of God. Is saying, Jesus, come. That's crazy, right? Isn't that wild? That is wild. Like, just to think about that, like that for a minute. And then, so he wants this to happen, okay? And, uh, the bride, you and I the church, this is the spirit of the bride say, come let everyone who hears say come.
This is the last thing written in the entire Bible. And I was like, wow, I really wanna be better at this than I am. But I always associated with like, the return of Jesus or this longing for Jesus to come, like those crazy people on the streets with the signs that say the end is deny, right? I just, what, what I've realized is this longing for Jesus to return, um, makes you love people better here towards this return.
She built things that matter more here towards his return. Unpack that. What do you mean? Yeah, what do you mean by that? Well, you know, if you think about it, the, the New Testament, the entire New Testament, these guys, the one thing Jesus talked about like a lot was the return I. Second dummy and these guys, you know, if you actually read in the Testament, it references the cross 48 times, which is a lot.
Thank you, Jesus from the cross. But it references the return of Jesus 318 times. Wow. These guys talked about this a lot. First off, I would say they wanted to see their friend again. Okay. They like really wanted to see me. Yeah. But they also talked about a lot because it was important. Right. And their desire and drive that that actually see it's the gospel was their belief that Jesus was gonna come back.
Like they're going all over the world telling people about this. They're traveling, they're trying to get this out 'cause Jesus will come back and. It made them more effective. We hear like today, you'll so heavenly minded, your know, earthly good, right? Have you ever heard that before? Right. Uh, that's actually not possible.
If you read Colossians three is to set your mind above or Christ is seeded. You can actually only be so heavenly minded, your morally good. Uh, you, if you actually believe Jesus is coming back and you're longing and praying for it in a way that's healthy, you're saying to yourself, okay, well I'm gonna do a better job.
Because I believe you will come. I believe you will. Or son, I wanna love people better now that come with, right. I want to build things that actually matter here. Yeah. Towards Then it makes you just more effective, dude. I mean, really. Yeah. And so there's that, and then there's the, the really just the overarching, like Jesus.
We need you like period in our lives. You know what I mean? Like, right. Yeah. And so the two things really connected for me and, and I don't know, it was weird. Like even when I put the song out on like TikTok and stuff and Instagram, Facebook, it went viral and people weren't like, oh, cool song. I mean, they were, but it really was this overarching theme of, Jesus, we need you.
Um, yeah. You literally are the only answer. Right, right, right. And I started though this stirred so many people that I was, I started going alive and um, on all these platforms and I'm just worshiped Jesus and share the gospel and play the song, you know, share my testimony and ask people if they wanna give life to Jesus.
And since September 22 till today, we have seen. Over 39,000 people come to Christ on these lives. Holy. And we have moderators that like help connect these people with resources, help them find churches and all that and all this. But this was all literally because of a psalm about the return of Jesus.
And when I asked the Lord, like when I think about why that is, it makes sense. I mean like. Revival. Anything that's ever like been really powerful. There was this longing for Jesus to return and repentance. Like these two things really go together because it makes sense. 'cause Jesus, he says the spirit of the bride, the spirit of God.
We're literally aligning our lives with something. God is saying, I want this. Wow. So why wouldn't he bless it when our lives start to align with something? He's clearly said he wants. Yeah. So really, really wild. So that's kind of, the rest has just been, um, just a rollercoaster. Praise God. Praise God using his song.
I, on that note, with these people coming to know the Lord, I. Yeah. Can I ask you like kind of a heady theological question? You can, I can't guarantee I'll have a heady, theological answer, but I don't have an answer either. I don't have an answer either, but, uh, go ahead. We'll, we'll just kick it around together.
Um, so based on your story, based on the stories you've heard throughout your life over the last 20 years, based on what you've seen in the last few years of these people coming to us, Christ, the, the struggle, you know, there's, there's these big camps and I don't think this is like a. Churches need to split over this issue.
But there's this camp of like, do we choose God or does God choose us? And I hear your story like you're high, you're mad at God. You, you, you said, I would punch somebody in the face or like cuss 'em out if they talk to me about Jesus. And then you're, you're high with drugs on the nightstand and you're reading about Jesus, like, did you choose God or did God choose you?
You know what I mean? Like. Um, here, I'll tell you my personal take in, in 20 years of ministry, I, I do have an but go ahead. Okay. Well, you hit me then. You No, no, no, no. I wanna hear what you, what you were gonna say. Go ahead. Well, in, in 20 years of ministry, um, the more stories I hear, the more I feel like God is just chasing people down.
And I don't know if they had the choice to, like, if, if. Like the relentless, the irresistible grace. Like, dude, I don't, I don't, did you have a choice or were you just gonna, he was going to hunt you down? Yeah. Part of, I'll just tell you where I land as of today, like as of today. Sure, sure. Having four kids, I this theological, this is a big theological take.
Again, I don't think churches need to split over this. We can talk about this in heaven. I have, yeah, yeah. People who love Jesus, who believe one way, people who have just believe the other. Yeah, totally. Totally. But, but I would say with four kids, sometimes I wonder, I wonder if God is like that child. I have to chase him down.
Like they will go in the wrong direction so far. Like, I'm, I'm just gonna, I'm not even gonna give 'em a choice. And then there are others like, no, let's give 'em some space to run here and let's see what they decide. Maybe that's how God is. I don't, go ahead tell me what you think. I No, I get that. That is a.
Number one, okay. Is God's ways are not our ways. They're higher than our ways. Totally. Yeah. By that definition, just the math of that sentence, there are going to be some times on this side of eternity where I'm gonna be offended by the way he does stuff. Totally. 'cause I'm not gonna get it. Totally. Like explaining the internet to an I don't know what's going on.
Right. Totally. Yeah. Um, and I still dunno how the internet works. Yeah, right. I cranking up, I dunno how we're doing this. Right. But the thing about it is I do, I do, I feel like there is, I do believe there's, there's, there's, there's free will. Okay. Otherwise, what's the whole point of all this at all? Right.
But the other part of this is I think he probably knows, okay, this is totally like, I don't know if this is the sci-fi movie nerd in me or the Bible. I'm not sure. So everybody, grace, grace, grace. Okay, I got my salt check. I'm just ready to pull it out on here. If a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day, then time isn't the way we experienced the Lord.
Yeah. Wow. This is gonna so nerdy. Hang in there. I'm here. Timing lit. The way the Lord experience, he experiences it totally different. He probably experiences it all, and this is totally probably, Lord, forgive me. You're gonna show me so day and I'm gonna be like, duh, I didn't know anything. But if he sees it all at once.
It's not really predestination or anything like that, it's just he already knows who's gonna accept you and who's not. That's an interesting take. That's interesting. Yeah. Right. So that's just a, that's a, I'm not landing there, but I'm saying that's something I've thought about because Yeah. You know, he wants us to choose him.
There's something about love. Yeah, that that puts us in a place to choose him. And there's something about your son wanting to turn to you. Yeah. And you might chase him down, but if you could just get him to see how much you love him and really want him and care about him, the idea is that you hope you'll turn around and go.
Yeah. And you chased him down to get to that place to fill him. Do you think, do you think you chased God down in your story in that room that night? I think he cases us down. Yeah, I do. But I think ultimately at the end of the day, it's because he's like, if you could just, this is the whole point of the gospel and going and telling people how good he is.
Yeah. If you just taste and see how good he is. Yeah. Right. Some people still at that place. They won't. They won't. Yeah. There's so much brokenness and so much. Just stuff that's just that deceives them, that they're in incapable of seeing truth. And that truth is just how much God loves 'em despite everything they've done.
Right? Yeah. Yeah. And so I like this kind of conversations, by the way, I don't know how helpful that is. The People Listen podcast, it's, it's, it's really fun to, I love it. It's really fun to think through. I, I, I will say for anyone listening, if you're like, kind of new to the Christian faith and you're trying to figure this out, don't let this be like a.
Road tripper up like this is not, again, they're gonna be people in heaven who believe on every side of the spectrum of this, you know, conversation. If you are, if you are a new believer, the the, the purest part about the gospel is like Jesus, it's John three 16, it's God's of the world. He gave his son that who believes in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.
Yeah. The goal of the gospel, the thing the mark that's trying to be hit is you fully alive. Right. You alive in Jesus and even John 10 10 I've come, you might have life and habits of the full. Like he just wants you to be alive. Like amen. The you fully alive is the you free from depression and anger and Yeah.
You know, and, and addiction and pornography and yeah. It's the real you and it's not a list of what you ha you can't do Now it's a list of who you get to be now. Yeah. You get to be free, you get to do things. It's awesome. It is awesome, man. Speaking of it really is. Yeah. You, you, uh, you have three boys who are in their 20 from 20-year-old down, is that what you said?
Yeah. The oldest is 2017. Nine. Yeah, that's a, that's a, that's a big spread. Um, they're awesome. Yeah. I was telling you that I was, um, at this camp with these college students and I was talking to a lot of 'em about, um, pornography and the, like, the way that it's just Sure. You, the reason I brought it up is 'cause you mentioned it here.
Yeah. Um, but the way that it's just crippling and they, they've talked about like, just. I mean these kids, you know, you have kids in this age, but they were, they were born with their phones in their hand. They just have access. You know what was really fascinating to me? I asked the, I asked these 20 year olds, you know, what would you tell me as a young parent?
As a parent with young ones? What would you, what would you tell me? And they're like, I would go without, without giving them a phone or technology for as long as possible. 'cause it's like messed me up and it's messed all my friends up. I was like, that's super fascinating to hear a 20-year-old say that.
Totally. And I, I don't disagree with that. Uh, I think,
I think once they get it, they're gonna have to deal with it no matter what. But there is an age where you are not able to Totally, like emotionally and, you know what I mean? Like totally. Like even make decisions, big decisions, uh, and you're naive or you're just young, you know, like, yeah, like my nine year old's not getting a phone.
You know what I mean? Yeah, totally. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Um, yeah, man, I have a son. He's 13. He just turned 13, and like, that's the peak years, you know, he, I, he is, he has made it further along. Without being exposed to pornography than I did, which for me feels like, um, you know, a win in some ways. But I just, I'm in, he's now in those, like this is going to be mm-hmm.
Just a, a very dominant part of his friends' lives and his, the culture around him as he steps into these teenage years. So I feel heightened as a dad stepping into these years with him, you know? Yeah. But. Yeah. You are more protective and it's just talking, constantly talking with him. Yeah. I try to keep it in front of him.
Yeah, keep in front. I don't wanna be behind you like having conversation, like never get lazy about just going and going. Are you doing all right? What's up? Right. Talk. Right. Uh, that sounds silly, but it's so important. Yeah. Um, yeah, dude, it's been really fun getting to know you. Thanks for letting me pick your brain on, uh, all kinds of.
Crazy. Thanks. I've enjoyed this a lot. Yeah. Thank you for having me. Yeah, bro. You're, you're about to jump on the road. People can see you. Mm-hmm. Uh, with you going with Maverick. I, I think I saw you're not super far from me at one of your shows down in Florida. I might try jump over there. I'd love to come see.
Part of that worship with you guys. If, if you do let me know. Yeah. Yeah, dude. But I'm, uh, and I'm assuming guys can just jump on your website and find all the tour dates and all that stuff. Yes. But if you go to worship Jesus life. Okay. My name is so hard to spell. I just thought, let's just make it worship Jesus life.
Try jesus.com. But that one's already taken into. Yeah, I tried that. But it's gone. But um, yeah, man, it's good. Alright, well we'll have a, I'll put a link there so guys can come see you out on the road. But bro, thank you so much for carving out some time. Yeah, man, to spend with us. Thank you. Bless you. Thanks dude.
Later.