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Our guest today, Lauren Kimball, Experience Design Director @ Edelman, shares her journey from architecture to advertising. She emphasizes the importance of being honest and open in client meetings and offers advice for architecture students looking to explore alternative career paths. Lauren also discusses her platform, Find by Design, which showcases black designers across various disciplines. Through her experiences, she highlights the power of collaboration and the value of pursuing work that you are passionate about.
Highlights:
Highlights:
- Architecture students have an amazing foundation in human-centered design thinking that is applicable across industries.
- Having a diverse range of experiences, saying yes to new opportunities, and working on passion projects outside of work can open new career doors.
- The advertising industry moves at a much faster pace than architecture which allows for more experimentation and learning.
- Being honest about what you do and don't know builds trust - it's ok to say you'll find the answer and get back to people.
- Hire people smarter than you and find partners who complement your skills rather than trying to do everything
Guest Bio:
Lauren’s experience has been rooted in design since the beginning. Having started her career in sports and entertainment architecture, her world has blended digital and physical to tell brand stories in impactful ways. She has made a career developing teams across the many facets of the design process, including consumer research, experience design, creative technology, and production. She's led interdisciplinary creatives through the design of sprawling music festivals, Olympic master plans, and digital shopping experiences, all to help clients understand their why, and how that translates to an effective design solution. In 2023, Lauren launched FIND By DESIGN, a space created to make it easier to find and support Black designers. The carefully curated directory allows anyone to find talented designers across the graphics and illustration industries, and the platform has already expanded to the UK + Ireland.
www.findbydesign.org
★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★
www.findbydesign.org
Creators & Guests
What is Tangents by Out of Architecture?
Welcome to Tangents by Out of Architecture, hosted by Silvia Lee. We’re highlighting some of our favorite stories from the amazing people we’ve met along our journey. We will hear how they created a unique career path for themselves from the variety of skills and talents they developed in and out of architecture.
Out of Architecture is a career consulting firm started by two Harvard-educated professionals interested in exploring the value of their skills both in and out of the architectural profession. We’re here to help you maximize all of the expertise you have honed as a designer to get you a role that fulfills and challenges you. We have the knowledge, experience, and connections to help you put your best self into the market–and reap the benefits.
S3 E10 Lauren Kimball
===
Introduction and Importance of Honesty in Client Meetings
---
Lauren Kimball: [00:00:00] *it's okay to say that you don't know. And the worst thing you can do is go into a client meeting and they ask you a question, you make something up and it's not accurate, they can ask you a question and you say, you know what, I'm not sure.*
*Let me go figure that out. And I will come back to you. That's a totally fine response. *
Introduction to 'Tangents by Out of Architecture' and Guest Introduction
---
Silvia: welcome to Tangents by Out of Architecture. Out of Architecture is a career resource network helping designers apply their incredible talents in untraditional ways. We're highlighting some of our favorite stories from the amazing people we've met along the way. We will hear how they created a unique career path for themselves from the wide variety of skills and talents they developed in and out of architecture. ~And can you say your name for me so I pronounce it right?~
Lauren Kimball: ~Lauren Kimball.~
Silvia: Our guest today is Lauren Kimball experienced design director at Edelman.
Lauren has worked on major projects like the us open and led experience design teams at top agencies.
Lauren has so many great insights to share during this conversation that I hope you get [00:01:00] excited about how to bring yourself and your. skills to new settings.
~Great, thanks Lauren and ~ So the first question we like to get started with is how would you describe yourself in three words?
Lauren Kimball: Describe myself in three words. That could go a lot of different ways,~ um,~ but I would say the first things that come to mind are thoughtful, creative, and probably overthinker, which I think every creative kind of has to be in order to understand all the options.
Silvia: Yeah that sounds great and also being thoughtful is probably a great ~um, ~characteristic to have as well.
Lauren Kimball: It's nice. It's helpful.
Architectural BackgroundGuest's Background in Architecture and Career Path
---
Silvia: So what is your background in architecture?
Lauren Kimball: So I got my master's in architecture from the University of Kansas. And, ~you know, ~to be honest, I think pretty quickly I was like, is this what I want to be doing? I've always loved. ~building and~ buildings and architecture in the built form. But, when you go into architecture school, it's,~ um,~ very specific in terms of what else you can do beyond, the actual career.
So, I went through architecture school. I was fortunate enough to get,~ um,~ a [00:02:00] Fulbright scholarship from a architecture firm called Populous. ~Uh, ~and so I'm still big fans of theirs, but I worked there throughout college and then,~ um,~ I was able to work there full time when I graduated. So started my career in sports and entertainment architecture, which was great.
I'm a big sports fan. I played them all growing up and so I felt like a nice way to kind of blend my personal life with real world and that's something I still try to focus on in terms of passion and bringing that into the work. so yeah, I worked there for a while. I was able to do a lot buildings, so stadiums, ballparks, and then they have,~ um,~ a group that is really around event design,~ um,~ design overlay, event overlay, like Super Bowls, Olympics, Final Fours, and so they work on ~the, ~the operational aspects of that,~ um,~ and so it's quite a big organization and that was very fun and. my first understanding of this world of [00:03:00] experience ~and, ~and thinking more about the live events and things that weren't permanent.
So I started there and then shifted and moved to a firm called Gensler out in New York, which I think most people ~know, ~know that name. And I actually worked in their consulting studio. So I was doing design strategy and. I think that was really great to understand the why of the decisions that we make.
And,~ um, you know, ~they have this really great group that works on the ~upfront ~upfront and talks to the clients and talks to the people that work there and, really understands what it is they're trying to get out of the design decisions that they're going to make. And then that information goes to the, rest of the teams and design teams to really make sure that that's baked in and become the red thread from beginning to end.
So that was helpful to see for sure. But being a designer at heart, you ~kind of ~realize strategy means a lot of research and I was ready ~to, ~to shift. ~So, um, ~I moved to an agency and that was my first entrance into the agency world, but doing experiential [00:04:00] still doing a lot of, design. It was just more temporary work than permanent.
And so that was, you know, an amazing transition and a lot of things learned, especially building a team and how you do that. And,~ uh,~ yeah, most recently I'm about five weeks into a new role of leading a experience design team at Edelman.
Silvia: Very cool.
Understanding Experience Design and its Relevance in Architecture
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Silvia: And can you,~ um, ~kind of flesh out a little bit more of what working in experience design is like? Because I think the word designer is something we all use a lot, but it can mean so many different things. And then I think architects do think about experience design while they do their, like, building work, but ~it might look a little,~ it might look different as a career or like as your profession.
Designer Experience
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Lauren Kimball: Yep, I completely agree. I think, first off, *architecture students are like the greatest kept secret in the world to every other industry because, exactly as you said, our curriculum is about experience design and people and how they're going to move through that *[00:05:00] *space, and a lot of folks don't know that and don't see what the core of the idea is, and so experience design really is about understanding human behavior, How to apply that, how to*~* um,*~* make experiences enjoyable, make them easy, make them natural in terms of our movements.*
And so now being in a more digital focused role, we're still doing physical events and experiences, but it's interesting coming from You know, my background obviously isn't in digital in terms of the core of it, but it is an experience. And that's exactly why I'm here. And my boss is amazing and sees that as well, because experience design is really a way of thinking.
And so when you, start to talk about UX, UI, I think it's always attached to digital work. And I understand that, but UXUI is not a website. It's thinking and understanding human behavior. Like that's at the core. And when you reframe it in that way, all of a sudden that could ~open, ~open [00:06:00] the doors a lot to different types of people who could get involved.
Now in UXUI, the medium you're doing that is digital. And in architecture, the ~median, the~ medium that you're doing UXUI is to And we're expressing that through space and through materials versus through, digital products and design. ~So, ~but they're both coming from the same, core idea, which is to,~ uh,~ enhance a human experience.
Silvia: So like slightly different context maybe before we were designing around codes and now like building code and things like that and then we have ~like ~a concept that we want to bring forward and then so now you're thinking about ~uh ~what is the experience you want to give to the user and then you're facilitating that and you have to work through ~um ~like interfaces or building Different screens and then also built items, but it's the same process, right?
Like what do you have to work around? What do you want to achieve and how do you make it all work together?
Experience you want to achieve for the users to experience
---
Lauren Kimball: Yeah, 100 percent because, in architecture, say you're building a performing arts center. [00:07:00] the ultimate goal is to make it as seamless and enjoyable as possible to get from the front door to your seat. And in, ~you know, ~a website or an app. Say it's for the buying tickets for that same performing arts center.
The ultimate goal is to get from the front door, AKA, the landing page to purchasing that ticket. And how do you make it simple? And so you're always trying to get to an end goal usually. And it's all about just like what is that path and journey to get there. ~Um, you know, ~and you know, you also have to understand the different.
Modes or mindsets that people are in when they're arriving to a space or arriving to, a digital product. If I'm more interested in discovery, then that changes the way I'm thinking about the space. ~Um, ~you know, the way you lay out
a,
Museum is different than the way you would lay out,~ uh,~ Shopping center because you want to get from A to B in a transaction versus you want to teach somebody something and let them ~kind of ~create their own journey.
And so understanding the [00:08:00] mindset of the user or the different mindsets that could possibly arrive helps you break down the different journeys that you or they could go on.
Silvia: One thing that I got from a previous guest like that I realized while talking to her that I ~kind of ~loved is because in architecture I would say that The design intent that you put into there, someone does not need to know that to be affected by it and ~like ~enjoy a space. They don't need to know why you designed it that way or how.
And then when we were relating to like experience design, it's like, Oh, well,~ um, ~in a exhibit, if you put speakers at certain places, like they're going to impact a user much differently than like just putting them in a grid layout or something. So like you can, ~you can~ tweak things very closely. And I feel like.
That, to me, makes even more sense that,~ like,~ you can actually put things in places for people to be affected by rather than, like, in a room where it's a little more abstract and you can't,~ like,~ explain it as clearly what you're trying to do.
Lauren Kimball: ~Yeah,~
Silvia: Does that ~kind of, like,~ make sense?
Marker
---
Lauren Kimball: yeah, totally. Because,~ like,~ we can all probably remember [00:09:00] our favorite movie, our favorite store, our favorite brand, and sometimes we might not be able to explain why you love a certain building, but there's a reason you love it, and someone spent a lot of hours making sure you loved it, and making sure you didn't know what that reason was.
And ~so, like, ~that's ~kind of ~the point is it's all these people behind the scenes, and so ~when I,~ if I go back to the event overlay piece of Populous, a lot of it is that it was the first time where you realize there's hundreds, if not thousands of people working behind the scenes to make sure. You can get from your front door to your seat to watch a Final Four basketball game safely and enjoyably and easily, from graphics and wayfinding to security to all of these things that you shouldn't have to think about as a consumer, but somebody is to make sure that it is the most seamless experience as possible.
So again, that's why I go back to architecture students and like, that's just the way we're taught. And that's the way of thinking that we're taught and no one. No one really knows that outside [00:10:00] of our industry. And I think the second they do, it's going to be so valuable because the skill sets that architecture students have and interiors and interior architecture, they're pretty impressive.
I went to my university last year,~ um,~ to speak and it was a full day thing. And I came out so excited by the work that I saw. ~Um, ~there were some really amazing,~ um,~ Students and the things that they were thinking about. I remember looking at some of these books and not only did they design the building, plus they were doing it in Revit and 3DS.
they designed
the
50 page book. They have. A 10 page section on like human psychology and why they laid out the space that they did. They did all the graphic design. and I'm like, you guys, people in my industry can't even do that.
Like there's, ~there's~ people who've been in this for 20 years and are experienced designers or experiential and they don't think like that because, ~you know, ~that's not. The baseline of where they came from. So you can't fault them with that, but those tools that you're given as a teenager [00:11:00] carry through and it's, ~yeah, it's just, it's ~very impressive.
It's my goal ~to,~ to get more of them over into the rest of the creative world.
Silvia: Very cool. ~What are, where do, or~ what kind of roles usually, or backgrounds usually end up as,~ like,~ experienced designers? I'm sure there's a wide range. ~Like, ~what are some of that you have seen?
Marker
---
Lauren Kimball: It's a good question. I think first I should differentiate between experienced design and experiential. And I think. Depending on who you talk to, you might get a slightly different answer, but in the industry, those are really seen as two different things. Experience design is definitely seen as more digital work, traditional UX, UI, and then experiential is more physical live events.
A brand pops up at Coachella and you create something from scratch and it's up for two weeks and you take it down. that is the experiential side of things. and then, of course, there's lots of gray area, myself included, because I'm ~kind of ~bouncing back and forth between both, which I love. so there's that.
In terms of the experiential side of things, [00:12:00] , I've seen people from all over, architecture backgrounds, interiors, theater. Graphic designers who really understood or wanted to understand space and now they're 3D modeling and rendering. and I think that's all just proof that it's a way of thinking for sure.
exhibition design installation. I think those are usually ~the Core background, industrial design, ~ the core backgrounds of like a design team, because there's some physicality that you need to understand. ~Um, ~and then from an experience design perspective, I think it's, ~you know, ~more traditional,~ um,~ UX, Learnings and skill sets and, degrees, but also graphic designers who have then grown into that or people who are really into motion and animation. ~Um, ~that's how they're ~kind of ~expanding into these other areas, which takes you back to architecture with motion and animation. Building in 3D and rendering and doing all those things again is another skill set that every single one of us has to have.
Whether we're good at it or not is a different story, but every single person that walks out of [00:13:00] graduation from an architecture school can do everything or has touched everything I just listed off.
Silvia: Yeah, that's awesome.
Career Advice for Architecture Students and Introduction to 'Find by Design'
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Silvia: Is there,~ like,~ any tips or recommendations you can give for someone coming out of school to not just end up in, like,~ a, like, ~drafting,~ like,~ in typical intern, place in an architecture place? Because that's ~kind of ~where most people will end up. So how can they really seek out and find these other opportunities or places?
Like, where do you look?
Marker
---
Lauren Kimball: Yeah. ~Um, ~I think that to a degree, there's always going to be the drafting that you got to do. Of course, there's going to be that core element that is a part of being junior in any role. And especially with architecture,~ it's,~ it's a core of understanding the bigger picture. But I was always a big, proponent of saying yes to everything.
because you need to understand what you like, but you also need to understand what you don't like. And there were times where I would see people and they were so good at rendering and that's all they did. And in school, you could [00:14:00] get a little caught up because you're like,~ well,~ I'm not that good. So I should ~I just like ~not do this because I am not the best render in the world.
And then you get into the real world and you see that there's multiple people who do that and a team is made up of 40 people sometimes not just the one. and ~as I, ~as I graduated and was working full time I started to see that those people who are really good at rendering all of a sudden two years went by.
And that's all they did. And they were pigeonholed and they were on every single pitch working late nights, every single week, because they could create these amazing images that sold work and some people loved that, but other people got burnt out very quickly. And so for me, I was like. It was great because I had touched, ~you know, ~five, 10 different elements of the business at that point.
And that's ultimately how I got to where I am because ~I, ~*I was weeding out the things that I also knew I didn't want to do. *~*Um, *~*so yeah, I would just say, raise your hand for as many things as possible. Make it known that *~*like *~* you enjoy what you're doing. And then if opportunities come up, you'd love to *[00:15:00] *try X, Y, and Z.*
*Listen in on meetings. *~*Um, I, yeah,*~* I couldn't express enough how important it is to also figure out what it is you don't. because that's just as equal to finding out the passions and it's also *~*it's kind of *~*easier. I feel like in, especially in a working life situation, regardless of industry, *~*there's a,*~* most of us have many things we don't like doing.*
so it's easier to identify those. And if someone's like, ~what it is, ~what is it that you enjoy? Because especially when you're right out of school, you don't, you have no idea. ~Um, ~so you kind of just need to see it all. and then as you start to get more. ingrained in your career, you can focus in on those areas that allow you to do so.
And it also starts to make you more attractive, both in whatever company you're at, but also externally, when you can say, Oh, yeah, I've touched that. Or yes, I have done some of this. so I'd say that's the first piece. The second piece is, if you're in a place that doesn't really offer the thing that you want to do,~ um,~ We all have to pay the bills, so we understand that.
It always takes longer to find a new job than you think it will. [00:16:00] do stuff on the side. There's nothing stopping you from creating your own fake project and designing that. Whether that is, again, a physical building, whether that's a website, an app, a branding project with packaging. Learn new skills, do stuff on the side, portfolios are huge and digital, like a website is huge, which sounds so obvious, but it's amazing in architecture schools that all the students are still creating physical books or like 100 megabyte PDFs that they have to we transfer you, and it's like, just make a website.
It's so much easier. And ~like, ~that's how people find you. No one in other industries can find you if you have a PDF that I can't see, ~you know, ~so getting that website up, having work that you're proud of, ~even~ whether it's student work, whether it's proactive work, that's fine. It doesn't have to be all live things.
especially when you're more junior, because what it shows to any employer is that, like I said, you're proactive, you're hungry, [00:17:00] and it just allows them ~to, ~to see the breadth of design skills that you've got.
Silvia: ~Um. ~You speak a lot about like students and things like that. ~Um, where~ do you review a lot of student work or like work with ~like ~hiring or things like that?
Marker
---
Lauren Kimball: Yeah, I have for sure. ~Um, ~and yes, done a lot of hiring. That's actually, what Find My Design was born out of, which I know,~ um,~ probably get into more, but yeah, that hiring aspect of it and understanding talent and looking at people's books. Sometimes you see stuff and I'm like, this isn't what I'm looking for.
I want. An architecture student, they would be the perfect role for this, but the industry and the structure of internships and all of that is set up so different than, in advertising. ~Um, ~and, ~you know, it's just, ~it's going to be a bit of a slow burn, but I am hopeful,~ um,~ because I think that's so important to have that.
So, I've done a lot of hiring and management of teams and organization of that. And also, I love. Connecting with students and talking to them, but also people [00:18:00] who are, ~you know, um. ~in their careers or took a pause on their career and trying to get back into the industry. ~Uh, ~all those things are beneficial and I just think advertising does a much better job at networking than the architecture world does.
~Um, ~and so I think that's been cool to see. And again, another learning that hopefully we can get some of these people in the architecture realm. being a part of.
Silvia: Those are, there's two things I really want to hear more about. It's the architecture slash agency, like differences and like just the good things to know, but also I want to hear more about fine by design. ~So, um, ~you let me know which feels more like next step to talk about.
Marker
---
Lauren Kimball: Okay, yeah, I'll go into Find by Design. ~So, um, ~Find by Design is a platform that I started last year, that's really a space to showcase black designers across graphics, branding, illustration. Right now, we've got some motion, and I'd love to expand more into architecture and interiors. I've got some folks in [00:19:00] Experiential, and it's just been really wonderful to see, started because, like I said, I do a lot of hiring, be it full time or freelance.
And I just felt like I was struggling to find amazing black talent and I know it wasn't because they weren't out there. It was because it was just hard to find a consolidated space to showcase that. And so, you know, I'd go to different websites and there's a lot of places that do it but I'd go to different websites and, the quality of work there was a wide range of work.
sometimes the links weren't upkept so they'd have, ~you know. ~30 designers, but 15 of the links were expired, because no one is really doing the management of it. Or they're, um,~ um,~ were gatekept behind paywalls. So, yeah, we might have all these designers, but pay us 60 a month and you can have access to it, which I understand from like a corporate perspective that those types of places ~are ~are assuming it's recruiters and corporations who are looking.
But for [00:20:00] me, who's a manager, who does a lot of the searching on my own, I'm not paying for that. And all of a sudden, all of this great talent is,~ um,~ gatekept ~and, ~and shouldn't be. So yeah, I created that. It's a submission based platform. So,~ um, ~you submit your name, ~your,~ any social handles, if you have them, and then your portfolio.
And then our team reviews the work,~ um,~ just to upkeep a certain quality and level of craft. And then,~ um, if, ~if submitted and that all looks good, then we add to our website. So we've got designers across the US and then we expanded into the UK and Ireland, which was pretty cool. we're pretty close to launching experiential, like I said, which,~ uh,~ I'm hopeful of.
~We, uh,~ I always want to have 10 to 20 designers before launching a new, practice area or city, just so. You know, there's a robust amount of people there, but it's been super cool. I've hired people for freelance, I've recommended folks,~ um,~ and it's a free tool to use. So the intent was always put it up, make it easy,~ um,~ make it attractive and ~like ~let people [00:21:00] come in and come out.
So that's been pretty awesome.
Silvia: When you're looking at portfolios ~or like how or what, ~what are like the best advice to give people to help, present themselves ~like truthfully, ~like basically how can you tell their personality and their passions ~ from,~ because I think a lot of portfolios, you don't know exactly what you're doing, especially if you're younger.
Most of the time you just put your work down, but not really tell the story of who you are and what you're about, and I feel like those are the best portfolios where you want to really understand who this person is and see that and not just like, this is the work I did this semester. So any advice or like, what have you seen that was really effective?
Marker
---
Lauren Kimball: Yeah, ~I mean, ~as designers I do think our work or creative sense is usually directly tied to who we are. So of course there's work that you're doing in your job and sometimes you know that's for a brand or corporation or whatever and it might not be as, punchy as you'd like it to be but even just the way you're setting up your website did you create your own logo.
Is there [00:22:00] about me page that tells a little bit more about yourself? Are your handles connected? If you want them to be, they don't have to be. but yeah, like your landing page is you. And ~like, ~that's the first impression. And something I always say is recruiters, managers, they don't have a lot of time.
And ~usually if you're like,~ no one's looking for talent. casually. If someone's looking to search, then they probably have an open role and they're ready to go. And so if someone's looking at hundreds of portfolios a day, then they need to see the work and they need to see it quick. So, my least favorite portfolios are the ones that are list form and it says the name of the project, but you can't see any work on the landing page because you just have to click in and it sounds so silly, but again, *You kind of have like 30 seconds to grab somebody's attention.*
*And so all of a sudden, if I land on a white landing page with a list of products or projects, it's much harder *~*to, *~*to move from one to the other. So I would say lead with the work, lead with imagery, or, *~*you know, *~*if your landing page is cool and *[00:23:00] *punchy and animation, whatever it is, there's no right answer, but put your work forward, put your creativity forward and let people see that sooner because if they have to dig, then it's going to be less,*~* um,*~* successful. And I think, again, that's *~*kind of *~*the point of experience design is, making it easy for people to understand and see what you want them to see.*
Silvia: And then the work itself, ~like ~if you had like a just like a scrolling page of all their things, like if they're an artist, you would ~kind of ~start to see their style. And then I guess in architecture projects, maybe like your favorite renders or drawings or something like that, or like
Marker
---
Lauren Kimball: yeah,
totally.
And it's like, you can click into stuff. I'm not saying don't do that, but I just think there needs to be imagery or creativity or vibrance from the beginning, and there needs to be a draw to why people want to keep clicking in. ~Um, ~sometimes people get too fancy and there's all these animations and your cursor turns into something.
And there's been books where like it [00:24:00] was over designed top where I couldn't even find the work because it was so. Impressive from like a tech functionality, but I couldn't find the work and,~ uh,~ that's happened more than once. And that's always surprising too. So, yeah, I just think it's leading with yourself and your capabilities first and, make it easy ~for, ~for people to explore.
and so to your other question, I think. That's directly tied. Advertising does a good job of that. And,~ uh, you know, ~our directors, they have great portfolio sense in that regard. And I think that's something that, like, as architecture students or people in the industry,~ um,~ that's something that's Take a look at, take a look at agencies, take a look at who works there.
I'm a big fan of LinkedIn in terms of finding people and discovering ~people, ~people and roles. And even if you're not searching, look at job descriptions because it tells you the things that you need to be capable of doing. And it just gives you an idea of ~like ~what's happening and who does what.~ Um, ~so in terms of the differences of architecture and advertising, the main one is [00:25:00] speed.
Architecture is extremely slow. And,~ uh,~ People are busy for sure, the pace is shockingly different and I think I knew that and was one of the reasons that I wanted to switch out of the industry because it was just too slow and you could work on something for four years and still never see it come to fruition and that's tough.
So, you know, agency world. You could be putting out something new every couple of weeks if you really wanted to, and depending on what teams you're on,~ um,~ there's a lot of late nights, there's a lot of,~ um,~ swirl, and I think that's the natural part of when you have short timelines, and I certainly think a lot of that, we could do better, we need to do better, especially with the working hours and,~ um,~ I'm not a fan of, well, this is how it's always been done.
So it's how we need to continue to do it. So I think that's something that certainly,~ um,~ can be tough ~and, ~and something we need to continue to work on. But yeah, I would say the main differences are pace for sure. I think advertising is a lot more [00:26:00] connected,~ um,~ in terms of ~the, ~the networking and opportunities for creativity,~ uh,~ and working together.
There's so many, schools now coming out where they're almost a form of a portfolio school, but, ~you know, ~night schools where you don't need to have a degree to go to the school. You don't need to have a graphic design background. And you can join these schools and learn about advertising and it's ~kind of ~a ~crash ~crash course over a few months and they connect you to the industry and to people and to companies and,~ um,~ that is becoming more and more prevalent and especially, geared towards people of color, which I think is awesome, too, of getting people from diverse backgrounds who otherwise wouldn't have access to this,~ um,~ into it.
And so I think,~ um,~ There's a long way to go, sure, don't get me wrong, and I think every industry is a far away, from that, but,~ um,~ advertising is certainly ahead of architecture,~ um,~ in terms of attempting to create some avenues, but I want to reiterate, we've got a long [00:27:00] way to go.
Silvia: Yeah. Was your experience from Populous and Gensler seems to be. When I look at your LinkedIn, it seems like to be pretty well aligned for making a transition to advertising, but ~was it,~ did you have to ~like ~explain your experiences and kind of like contextualize it ~for the,~ where you ended up working so that it was like they could see the connection or was it like pretty easy for them to ~like ~connect it?
Architecture transition to Advertising
---
Lauren Kimball: Yeah, ~I mean, ~I think I explained it a little bit, but it was. They understood, but it took time to find the right person that would understand. That's what I would say. I think that I've had a very, like, niche career, because on paper, what is an architecture student doing at an ad agency, over all those years?
Like, how did you get from A to Z? And that seems a little odd, but. When you go back to all the things we've been talking about, it makes sense. And so when you find the right people that understand that makes sense, then it just ~kind of ~works. So, yeah, I would say that at my last job, when I originally made that transition, it was the same thing.
[00:28:00] And, you know, it was a perfect timing of building out this team to,~ um,~ do exactly that and,~ um,~ create this really best in class work for the World of Experiential, which we did and they're continuing to do.
Embracing New Roles and Opportunities
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Lauren Kimball: And then now I think in my new role, it's a really exciting place to be because we're almost in a similar spot of creating something new.
And there's gray area, which I love of how do we do that and where do we want to go. But there's the backing of this much larger organization, and there's opportunity to,~ um,~ navigate and build that as we all see fit, and as we learn along the way. ~So, ~yeah, it was just like, it takes much longer than you wanted ~to, to, ~to find the right spot, and that's, I've learned anything over my career, that's part of it, but when you find the right one, then it really feels Good.
And you're surrounded by people who like totally get it. And I would say ~that's the, ~that's the positive,
Silvia: Yeah, for sure. That's like the sweet spot where ~you, ~when you look back, it didn't feel bad or wrong or like, ~like~ an ill fitting place. But then like when [00:29:00] you get to somewhere where everything's really meshing really well, you realize how much better it is in the past. I don't know. That was like ~kind of ~my experience.
Lauren Kimball: totally.
Reflecting on Career Progression
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Lauren Kimball: And I think looking back for myself. You have moments of frustration wherever you are, of course, and each time that I was ready to go, you don't realize in the moment the things that you've learned in a way. And,~ um,~ each time I moved to my next, I feel like it was the exact right thing for me to be doing at that time.
And ~so, you know, ~even though it took much longer than I'd wanted it to, ~it,~ it would always pan out to be worth the wait. So I'm gonna have to. Play this back for myself the next time I'm frustrated about anything because waiting ~is, ~is a good thing sometimes and you'd much rather have it take a little longer than you wanted it to, but be in the right spot and then have regrets.
Silvia: Yeah, for sure. It's always easier to look back and ~Like, uh, ~like kind of like see it in a different light. ~What, ~what were the things that kind of made you want to like,~ uh,~ pursue a [00:30:00] new,~ uh,~ place,~ uh,~ like another step in your career journey?
Stepping in to new Career Path
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Lauren Kimball: Yeah.
Exploring the World of Experience Design
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Lauren Kimball: ~Um, ~I think, like I said, pace was one thing of I knew I liked design I knew I liked experience, and I wanted to be doing more faster and. the first, one of my first exposures to the world I'm in now was when I was at my previous, my first firm at Populous, and I went to the sports business journal, conference in New York and I got to see the world I'm in and there was a lot of cool things, a lot of different things.
My previous company, there was a project of theirs that I got to experience firsthand. And at the time I didn't know that that's who it was. School VR experience for the US Open. And I had no clue about ~like ~who was behind that or that their experiential agencies existed really. But I was discovering it and I knew there was more out there that like I wanted to be a part of.
And so I kind of just kept going. ~Um, ~when I was a populace, I did this research project on my own because I [00:31:00] was seeing this,~ um,~ overlap of. Skills and capabilities and offerings. And so I did this research project of architecture firms and consulting firms and advertising agencies. And I basically analyzed all 3 of those groups and I did an audit of each of the, heavy hitters in each of those industries and just started looking at what they were doing. And it was funny because there was this ~overlap, ~perfect overlap and diagram of they were all getting into or were already in experience design. And that's where they were all focusing. Architecture firms were doing it from a physical built environment perspective.
But again, you have people like Populous who are in event overlay and already working on these super events. They were already there. Consulting firms were buying agencies to get into the experience space. You had, you know, Deloitte buying creative agencies, branding agencies, and then they were,~ um, kind of ~getting into that space from more of a digital perspective.
And [00:32:00] then you had agencies who were already there. but starting to blend into the physical space. RGA at the time was the big one that,~ uh,~ I was kind of looking at, cause they go through these transformations, I think every 10 years and the way they were talking about tech and digital and where it was going and how it was connecting people in spaces was huge and,~ um,~ it was pretty amazing to see all of that on paper and see that like this world of experience design is a thing.
And,~ uh,~ I didn't know ~that ~that's what it was called at the time, but I was like, that's where I'm trying to get to.
Silvia: Yeah, I love that. ~Um, ~was this a project you just did on your own? Like I'm interested in this and I'm going to do it and like present it to like your,~ uh,~ managers and things like that.
Lauren Kimball: exactly.~ I, uh, I took over.~ We had these little like design pods where you could ~like ~do charrettes and post stuff. So I took over one of those and I just had this whole wall of, pictures and research and, ~you know, ~little strings going from one piece of paper to the other. and so, yeah, on my spare time, I did that.
And then [00:33:00] I put a presentation together and presented back the findings to, a couple principals. And I was like, I feel like experience design, like this area, there's something here and we should go towards that. And yeah, ~it was, ~it was fun and it was helpful for me. And I always think back to it because had I not been sparked to do that, I don't know that I would have ended up here.
~Um, ~and to be honest, the, when I went to Gensler, I was like, Gensler is the right place for me because, ~you know, ~it gives me that name and it gives me that expertise of the best place in the world. It gives me the opportunity to be in New York. And then, I can ~kind of ~figure it out from there. And, Gensler ended up being who renovated the offices of my next company.
And that's really how I got connected with them in that company is who did the VR experience at the sports business journal conference six years before. So it was just like, it was all connected and it was all coming together. And I don't think had I gone through that path, I would have ended up in [00:34:00] the position that I did.
And so those things are always pretty cool to look back on and see how it ended up.
Silvia: Yeah, that's my one of my favorite things to hear about people's career journeys is like when the dots start connecting all through following passions and just things you were interested in wanting to pursue, because I feel like you are actually like creating your own unique role for yourself just by you're not saying like I'm going to end up there in six years you're saying like, I really like this, I don't know where it's going to go, but I want to pursue this more and then make a ~like ~a whole life out of it.
Lauren Kimball: Yeah, even you saying that is getting me excited. I'm like, yeah, I want to do that. and that's exactly how it's been is we have to work for a really long time, unfortunately. And so if we're going to spend half of our lives at a desk or in a working environment, then make it something that you enjoy, if you can.
And especially, ~you know, ~for those of us in a creative or design industry, That is our passion and [00:35:00] creativity is made up out of our own heads, you know, there's no right answer to it. It's subjective. I think that's why us creatives are a little sensitive sometimes because if someone says, ~you know, ~you need to change your idea, you feel like it's a personal attack, even though it's not.
So that's something that takes a while to But,~ um, yeah, I've just,~ I've always been a ~huge, ~huge proponent of doing what you enjoy. It makes life so much nicer and happier. I think it makes us nicer people. So things are scary. *Change is scary, but the alternative to me is worse, which would be. Being stuck somewhere that you don't want to be or you're not happy with complacency is like my least favorite word in the world and something that I don't want *~*to, to, *~*to be in a situation where, *~*you know, I'm, *~*I'm complacent in a negative way.*
*And just the only reason I'm there is because I'm afraid of change. yeah, as much as the, *~*the*~* change has been scary and jumping into new. worlds. *~*Um, it's been, *~* it's been worth it and it's worked out.* When I moved to New York, I didn't know a single person. ~Uh, ~I [00:36:00] had one friend we had met once,~ um,~ from one of our mutual friends who I went to school with.
And,~ uh,~ now she's one of my closest friends and we're still both in New York. But moving here and never knowing,~ um,~ a single person and I had spent a total of ~like ~three days in New York. Prior to moving here, it could be pretty daunting, but from the beginning, I just knew that this was the right place for me and, the right experience.
And I just, there's just so much opportunity in the city.
Silvia: Yeah, and that's also another thing I love about like hearing this is that it usually doesn't make sense to a lot of people not like, I mean moving to New York is something a lot of people do because of the opportunities here, but ~kind of like, ~it's more so that even though it's not going to be easy you're still really excited to do it and you're just going to ~like ~figure it out because that's just what you have to do and you know that's the direction you want to go in.
Lauren Kimball: Yeah. 100%. Like you just got to figure it out, which is again, how many times as creatives have we sold something into the client or our boss? And they're like, yeah, how do we do it? And you're like, [00:37:00] oh, don't worry about it. Like we got it. And then you go back to the room and you're like, I have no idea. We need to have a work session and figure this out because that is the core of creativity.
Every time you do something, especially when you're working with a consistent client or on a consistent account, you do something. It's wonderful. And then it's ~like, ~great. do it again, but better. And like, that's your whole career. So you have to be constantly ideating and changing and being in touch with culture.
~Um, ~so yeah, I think it can feel daunting in that regard, but that's when, as you get further in your career, starting to recognize and understand the different,~ um,~ people and roles that are there to support you. I think that's what's cool. And, advertising is like, there's all different types of strategists and, there could be a creative team and a design team.
And,~ uh,~ all those people have different interests, creative technology, production, and so really understanding who those people are and what they can bring to the table, I think is huge and making yourself as a creative, more valuable and more understanding, because you don't need to have the answer for everything, [00:38:00] but if you can strive to get to the point where, I don't know that answer, but I know who to ask, or I know who to point you to.
It's such a, ~it's such a ~positive thing and experience that I think only enhances their overall product.
The Power of Collaboration in Creative Projects
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Silvia: Is there a example like situation or project or team that like you just have a great memory of that you can like share,~ um,~ either like solving a problem or creating a solution for your client?
Lauren Kimball: Yeah. my mind probably goes to the U. S. Open. ~Um, ~ we did ~a U. S.,~ the U. S. Open the last, or I did, I should say, the last five years and the team had been doing it far,~ um,~ longer before that. But my first U. S. Open was. Pretty amazing. And we, ~you know, ~took over this space that is normally an open warehouse with three tennis courts and we come in and 000 square feet, we put in two floors and build it out that it looks like this permanent experience with all types of different activations and touch points for kids and adults [00:39:00] and technology and food and drinks.
And it's just such a robust organism of things. both from the final result, but the amount of people it takes to make it happen is so impressive and something that, ~you know, ~is ~that~ behind the scenes thing most people don't even realize that there is an agency behind it doing all of that stuff.
it's really the brand that gets the recognition for those things. And that's just ~the. the world of, I would say that's~ one of the negatives of advertising,~ um,~ especially in experiential is that the agency behind it doesn't get credit. In architecture, the architect always gets credit. ~You know, ~someone's going to say if Populous or Gensler or Zaha did these things, whereas in, ~you know, ~experiential, it's the brand who did it.
And so you just ~kind of ~got to know that, accept it and move on. but yeah, I think I remember this one meeting and it was during the 4th of July break. I think it was like the day before and we all sat in a room for like 8 hours and there was almost 15 [00:40:00] people and we just jammed on all the things. And so we all did our own piece, but then we were there together to talk about the things we needed to.
And it was just such a beautiful. web of talent and across like 10 different skill sets. And ~like ~that meeting got us on board and on the same page to deliver this amount of work. and to show up for my first one and see that and see the effort and the late nights, was pretty, pretty amazing. And then to be able to walk the grounds and see people enjoy it,~ um,~ with some tennis in the background was, yeah, it was pretty special.
Silvia: That is really cool. I'm trying to like imagine ~is it Like~ what that is ~like, um, ~because you also mentioned something earlier where it's like, you don't know all the steps of the solution, but maybe you like, ask someone, to like, to start something. And like, there's ~like, uh, ~maybe like ~a, ~a series of events that starts like, ~kind of ~like trickling to solve solutions.
So I'm trying to imagine like, how you all work [00:41:00] together and do it. Is it like, come here and ~like, ~we're both going to put our hands into this,~ like, Okay. ~in like Figma or something and then like, or like what are those like collaborative moments or like those moments of genius? I'm just trying to like see the excitement.
Lauren Kimball: Yeah, absolutely. ~I mean, ~project managers are my favorite people in the world and I became full. I'm not a dependent person, but I'm dependent on them. And,~ uh, they,~ I think made me a better person and manager and leader too, as we ~kind of ~built a team and a process. I feel like they were kind of at the core of that of understanding.
We have this ask and I know it goes across these three different groups. Let's get them together and let's talk about it. But, ~you know, ~if you think about, let's say we wanted to build some cool LED tennis activation, creative might come up with that idea. Design is gonna sketch that idea and start thinking about it.
You have creative technology who's ~like, well, ~we need to figure out how to build it. So I'm going to take those [00:42:00] sketches and those ideas to vendors, and they're going to come back with how they could actually do it and what's feasible. And then, ~you know, ~account people are like, but how do we actually afford that?
Before we talk to the client, ~you need to~ We need to run this and get on the same page about what we can say and what are going to be caveats. and then, yeah, you have production talking about the physical build and can the thing that you just sketched even fit in the building, based off of the size that it is.
So it's like all these people that like you have to gut check across teams to make sure everyone has a general form of alignment before you put it in front of clients, before you put it out into the world. And I think that's where. The fun happens is Checking those boxes and getting on site and, ~you know, ~going to a vendor shop and playing with that LED activation and being like, this isn't right.
We need to change that. And someone's, ~you know, ~working remote and can change the colors on their computer and the people in person are, giving feedback live to the people in the room. So it was like those moments of, there [00:43:00] were a lot of opportunities to ~like ~be on site to watch the build.
There's a lot of opportunities to be, up front earlier on to tour venues and talk about why this would or wouldn't work. so yeah, I think ~that was, ~those were the areas that gave me energy because yeah, you're just in the weeds and you're making something and you feel like you're doing it with your hands.
And it's also where you make a lot of friends because You spend a lot of time doing it. And when you go on site, ~you know, ~these people who you might otherwise not know, all of a sudden you're in a hotel for a week, 16 hours a day working with them and eating all that stuff. So you learn a lot about people.
And, yeah, some of my closest and greatest friends came from those experiences. ~So, ~yeah, I'll be forever grateful for that.
Silvia: Yeah, that's beautiful. ~Like, ~ does sound very much like the experience of getting a building built, except on a much faster timeline but all of those, types of interactions between people and the endless amount of decisions that have to be made very quickly and dependent on other people like all [00:44:00] of that is like part of the fun of getting an idea to creation.
Yeah.
Lauren Kimball: Yeah, absolutely. I think the U. S. Open's my longest project I've ever been on in the experiential world, and that's,~ like,~ eight months. And during those eight months, I probably launched,~ like,~ 50 other products and projects before the U. S. Open went live. So,~ So, ~yeah, it's just because of that. It takes you back to what I was saying in the beginning about figuring out what you like and what you don't like.
because of that, you're able to touch so much more and really get good at certain things and recognize where, I'm not great at this and I need help. And I think as I've gotten further in my career, we always hear people say hire people that are smarter than you. And I think when you're younger, you're like, wasn't that intimidating?
And why would you want to give that over to somebody else? But as you get older, you're like, No, I completely get it because you can't do everything. And some people are great at management. Some aren't. And,~ um,~ you figure out ~what, ~what area you are really strong at. And you ~feel, uh,~ figure out what areas [00:45:00] you need someone else who's an amazing partner that you can trust.
And like the two of you or five of you can like go out and make this badass work together. And that in itself is such a skill as being able to Recognize you're not the master at something, being comfortable with that. Cause I think that's daunting too,~ to,~ to say out loud,~ like,~ this isn't totally my thing.
I said that earlier this week on something. So I was like, yeah, you can do this. ~Right. ~And I was like, ah, I'm not the best person for that. And, but I can find that person. and I felt totally comfortable saying that, but however many years ago I would have been like, yeah, of course. And then panicked about how to figure out how to do it.
Even if maybe I shouldn't have. So, yeah, I just think that there's such a benefit to doing more work faster sometimes because you really get to figure out a lot about yourself and where it is that you want to go.
Final Thoughts and Career Advice
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Silvia: Yes, you are so right about that. I feel like as like when I was starting out as an architect, I would just be like, yes, and then I have to figure it out and stress the [00:46:00] entire time. And they mean ~like, ~and it probably wouldn't even been that great. But I feel like it just felt like you needed to know everything and be on top of everything.
Whereas I guess now ~like, ~in like more quick pace things, it's ~like, well, ~I don't have time to figure it out. Like we just have to get it done. No one cares if I know it or not.
Lauren Kimball: Correct. I would say one of the best pieces of advice I've ever received was from, my mentor and principal at Populous, who he said*, it's okay to say that you don't know. And the worst thing you can do is go into a client meeting and they ask you a question, you make something up and it's not an accurate, they can ask you a question and you say, you know what, I'm not sure.*
*Let me go figure that out. And I will come back to you. That's a totally fine response. And I think that the same rings true internally. as I've grown to be managing people and teams, when I ask you what you're working on, or if you can do this or how long it's going to take.* I'm not wanting you to say you can, yes, you can do it in 15 minutes.
And like, it's all good. Tell me it's going to take two days or tell me you don't [00:47:00] have enough time or tell me you need help in order to get that done. I am totally cool with that. ~That, ~that's all I'm asking so that we can get you what you need. And so that I can, accurately say to the rest of the team, we need four days to do this and we need these other people to help on this side.
that all comes back to that, like feedback loop of all those, Okay. people across departments of,~ um,~ yeah, just being aligned with them. Because once people trust you and the work that you're putting out, it's much easier to have those conversations. And I never got pushback of, ~you know, ~account always wants something quickly, of course, because the client wants it quickly.
And I've never received pushback of, Hey, actually, can we get another day? Or we need this. It's always like, okay, we understand. And like, what do we need to change? or, ~you know, ~shift in order ~to, ~to hit those goals because they trusted our team and they trusted what we were saying is true. And they trusted the product that was going to come out of that.
Silvia: Yeah, that's such a great point. It's not the fact that you being able to provide that answer or getting something done when they ask it is not [00:48:00] exactly what builds the trust. It's that you will~ all, like, you will~ say,~ like,~ you'll be honest and upfront and ~like, ~be like,~ uh,~ when you will get back to them with that information and you do ~like ~that and then finish projects.
that's the trust building element of it.
Lauren Kimball: Totally. And don't get me wrong. There's times where there has to be a late night. There's times where you have, you need to turn it around in two hours. And,~ um, Yeah, that's, ~that's all a part of it. So of course I'm not putting rose colored glasses on. Is that the phrase? I think it is. of like the realities of any industry.
Sometimes there's just moments where you got to hunker down. You got to do things you probably didn't want to. You might miss a dinner. You might have to get up earlier than you'd like. Of course that happens. But if ~the, ~the whole of it is we are an organized, trusted team with a solid product, you're all able to go a lot further.
In your organization and create a lot more trust with your clients because you're giving a consistent product. each time, be it digital or physical. And I think that's just so important of being truthful and honest in what you're [00:49:00] capable of. ~Um, ~it seems scary at first, especially when you're coming out of school because,~ uh, you know, ~you want to impress everybody.
So I get that. And so you just have to find the balance of, yeah, of course I can do that. And then you go home and figure it out. Versus that's not in my wheelhouse and I might need a little help. It's scary asking for that or saying that, but I think you'll be better off in the long run. And I think your managers will respect and appreciate that a lot.
At least I could say that when ~I, ~I've worked with some folks, ~you know, ~right out of school. And I remember how communicative they were and,~ um,~ honest and, ~you know, ~their capabilities and time. And it makes my job easier because then I can accurately depict that. So I was always very appreciative of it.
Silvia: Yeah, those are really great points. I was gonna ask you as the closing question,~ uh,~ advice for your former self. You already gave great advice, but is there anything else that ~it would be,~ you would have wanted to tell ~yourself, ~your younger self?
Lauren Kimball: You know what? This is one of those questions that I, like, stress about. You see them, like, ask them on shows or something. [00:50:00] I'm always like, I'm not sure what I would say, to be honest. Maybe, calm down.
Take a deep breath. I've always been go, go, go. I've always had that like New York speed in my mind, but I grew up in Kansas, and when you're growing up in a place that is much slower than your mind is moving sometimes it can make you feel even more out of, balance.
And you want things to move quicker and I think coming to New York, I actually feel calmer here because. My mind is moving, but the city's moving, so we're all at the same place, ~you know? ~And so it ~kind of ~feels like it's this perfect harmony versus being out of sync, depending on your environment can be tough.
So yeah, I would just say calm down and keep going because so far it's all continued to work out. ~I, ~should say that to my current self too.
Silvia: That's awesome. Yeah. Thank you so much for this great conversation.
Lauren Kimball: Yeah. Thank you. This was wonderful.
Silvia: ~Um, ~
Erin: [00:51:00] Hey everyone. It's Erin from out of Architecture. If you find these stories inspiring and are looking for guidance, clarity, or just need someone to talk to about where you are in your career, please know that we offer 30 minute consultations to talk about what may be next for you. If you're interested, head to out of architecture.com/scheduling to book some time with us.
Jake: Hey everyone. It's Jake from Out of Architecture. We love hearing your stories, but we know there's more out there that we've still yet to experience. If you or someone you know would be a good fit for the podcast and has a story about taking their architecture skills beyond the bounds of traditional practice, we'd love to hear it.
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