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Join me, Jess VanderWier, a registered psychotherapist, mom of three, and founder of Nurtured First, along with my husband Scott, as we dive deep into the stories of our friends, favourite celebrities, and influential figures.
In each episode, we skip the small talk and dive into vulnerable and honest conversations about topics like cycle breaking, trauma, race, mental health, parenting, sex, religion, postpartum, healing, and loss.
We are glad you are here.
PS: The name Robot Unicorn comes from our daughter. When we asked her what we should name the podcast, she confidently came up with this name because she loves robots, and she loves unicorns, so why not? There was something about the playfulness of the name, the confidence in her voice, and the fact that it represents that you can love two things at once that just felt right.
Welcome to Robot Unicorn, hosted by my parents, Jess and Scott.
I hope you enjoyed the episode.
As you know, we're going to talk about screens and social media today.
And in the research that I did
I'm going to just start off by saying I think I've changed my mind a little bit on how I would actually approach it.
So we can talk about that more as we go through.
I would say
At first, I would be one to say in general, kids should never be on social media, but I think there's actually a little bit of nuance that we should get into.
Because I don't necessarily agree with that.
I don't think too far off from that, but I have changed my opinion on like kids in general should never be on it.
I would have thought that after reading all the research that I would feel more like they shouldn't be on at all.
But I do not feel that way.
But to start off
What do you think are the most significant risks you see for children and teens with screens and social media?
Because there are lots.
All the research does suggest that.
So we're just diving right into it.
Yep.
Okay.
The risks for being on screens.
I mean so many different risks, right?
So we can start with attention.
I think there's research showing that
kids who are on screens for very long periods of time have reduced attention spans.
So especially when we're talking about things like YouTube shorts, reels, TikTok, right?
That only capture your attention for a little bit at a time.
And your brain learns to only take things that are very stimulating and watch it for a little bit at a time, then you're on to the next thing, on to the next thing.
I mean, most adults can even relate to that.
versus I feel like we have to also talk and I'm sure you'll have questions about this, but the different types of screens in social media, right?
Versus a movie.
that you're like sitting and watching a whole movie.
So I think there can be definitely an impact on attention and we're seeing that a lot in kids.
Shorter attention spans, having a hard time sitting still.
They have a hard time watching a whole movie, right?
They don't watch whole things.
Like it's just short, short, short.
We see risks in terms of exposure, right?
I think that's one of the biggest risks that I'm always thinking about when it comes to social media specifically for our tweens and the internet.
in general, what are they seeing?
What are they being exposed to?
We know that it's very easy to access inappropriate material within a few clicks.
Right.
And so whether that's on Snapchat, whether that's on Instagram or TikTok or even just the internet, it doesn't take much to see something that's inappropriate.
And it's really hard for a child's brain to wrap their head around that.
And whether the inappropriate video is just
you know, someone dancing and inappropriate words coming on the screen all the way up to porn, right?
Like there's a range of things that are not appropriate for kids to be seeing.
But whatever it is, it's really hard for their brains to
process that material.
So that is another big risk that we're looking at.
The other risk that I talk to parents a lot about is the cyberbullying and the types of relationships that we're forming.
So whether that's a relationship with
someone that is known to the child, their friend.
We are seeing that a lot in girls.
We're seeing a lot of girls, grades six, seven, eight.
That's already a tricky time for friendships.
We know that.
That's historically been a tricky time for friendships.
the sense of identity is developing, but now they don't have a break.
So now you get home and you're still talking to your friends on Snapchat.
Snapchat I I keep picking on because that's the big one that I'm hearing about, but there's lots of platforms that
children are talking to their friends on and it can turn bad really quick.
It can turn into isolating people.
It can turn into chats about how much you don't like someone.
And these can be really, really painful.
And similarly on gaming platforms, we're seeing a lot of struggles with boys who
Predominantly are more so on the gaming platforms, speaking to people they don't know, or they're not sure if they know or not.
And
There's grooming that can happen on there and conflict and bullying and so many different things as well.
So those are some of the main risks that I'm seeing.
Yep.
Well and another one is uh
significant mental health issues.
And apparently, well at least in the research I found, kids who are on social media didn't seem to matter if they were on for a short period of time or a long period of time.
Their mental health seemed to be worse than kids who were not on at all.
That makes sense to me.
And I think when I'm talking about the risks, and maybe you're gonna get to this, but the overall risk
which is the risk of real connection and attached relationships and belonging, right?
So when a child's need for being connected with their parents or being connected with their peers in a real way is
met superficially with screens, right, where it feels like I'm getting this need for connection met, but I'm true, I'm not actually getting that met.
Of course it would impact their mental health.
Given everything that we know about child development and the importance of belonging and connection and relationship, right?
So a lot of the question for me with screens, like we can get into all of the risks that I just talked about, but the greater question
Is how does it impact attachment and relationship and belief.
Yeah, which is their development.
Like their that's I think a part of their brain development.
That's
an aspect of it.
Yes, exactly.
Right.
It helps benefit the their brain development.
And the more a child is on the screen or social media, right
it takes away from that time that otherwise maybe they would have spent running around with their siblings and building those relationships or spending time talking with you while you're making dinner, right?
So it it's replacing in a superficial way
real connection and I think that's where we're seeing a lot of those other struggles come into play.
Yeah.
And I'll get into that in a d another question, but I feel like we have heard quite a bit recently about obviously we let our kids use screens.
It's
typically monitored by us or another adult.
It's monitored.
We have pretty strict boundaries around what can be used
But we've heard of others who essentially use a screen to pacify the child so that they can get something done.
Which
Like to the parents' defense kind of makes sense, right?
Like there's definitely been times I've popped on a movie so that I can make dinner or so I can get an hour of work done.
Right.
And I I think maybe I should represent it in a different way.
Pacifying to me
Doesn't mean like once or twice every once in a while.
Like I'm thinking more like the latchkey kid that goes home on their own and then gets hours on their own of being on their computer playing games
Or being on their phone scrolling social media.
That's more what I mean about pacifying.
Like it's not once a week or something like that, hey, I need to get some laundry done.
Here's here's a movie you can watch while I do that.
Yeah.
That's that to me is a little bit different
versus every single day or many times a week it's happening.
That to me seems to be what we've been hearing.
Yeah, I think there's a difference in attitude between everybody sometimes puts on a show.
to distract their kids to make dinner or they're just having a hard afternoon and you just pop on a show versus I don't want to deal with my kid and have to manage their behavior or talk to them or deal with them right now.
Like
So I'm just gonna let them have unlimited access to screens because it keeps them busy and then I don't have to worry about dealing with them.
Right?
Like I feel like you're right.
That's two very different things, but I wanted to make sure we clarified that
So parents don't think that we're just demonizing screen time in general, right?
On to the next question.
So like I said originally, I'm not 100% convinced that a blanket no to all screen use or social media is actually the best approach.
Partly because
These platforms aren't gonna go anywhere.
Like, they're gonna they're gonna change, but they're not gonna go anywhere.
And they're going to be a part of our kids' futures, sort of, no matter what we wanna think.
So while we talked about the risks, do you feel there are any genuine benefits to using them?
Can it be used wisely to help kids develop certain skills or connections?
Yeah.
Anytime I do a talk about screen time, I start with the benefits.
Cause I say always say that there are things that can be positive and I agree that it's not a blanket, don't use screens, right?
If we think about let's just say the pandemic, no one wants to talk about it, right?
But the way that
We had screens, we had FaceTime, we had Messenger, we had the ability to connect in a way that if we didn't have those, we wouldn't have been able to communicate with our family and friends, right?
So that's a huge
positive.
I think that there are times when you're watching a movie and you're snuggling on the couch with your child, right?
That that's a beautiful time of bonding and connection.
Or I think about you and you collect old games and you know you have your old
CRT TV and Nintendo and you play it with your our kids and it's fun and it's connected and it's bonding and it's nostalgia.
I think there's ways where we can use it that allow us to be playful or fun or comfort
And we want to focus on using it for those ways, not just to distract us from life, right?
And even education
I was doing a talk and I said to parents, tell me about one thing that's been really helpful about screens, right?
And they talked about their son who learned how to do a Rubik's Cube.
and how to fix it by watching YouTube videos on like how to do a Rubik's Cube.
And he's so proud of himself and now that's his new thing is like making these Rubik's Cubes and and fixing them up.
Right?
Like there's things that we can learn, new skills, new hobbies.
So we definitely can't say it's all bad.
There's a lot of positive things.
Arts learning how to write.
There's just so much
Well even generally like creating.
I think creating videos that's a form of art in my opinion.
Yeah, creating videos is a form of art.
There's so many positive things, and we do that with our kids too.
You want to learn about a new topic.
You want to learn about dolphins.
Okay, let's type in dolphins.
Let's learn everything that we can about it, right?
So if we use it in those educational, fun, nostalgic, and comfort ways, it it can be helpful to our family.
Yeah, one thing I've found, apparently, there's been research done on this too.
So more marginalized, I guess, children.
Mm-hmm.
So like children who would consider themselves to be a part of LGBTQ, that group, or minorities, if you're a minority in an area you're you're in, it has been found that using social media, even for children
has been found to be beneficial to their mental health because they can find common connections with people and forums
with other individuals who might be experiencing the same thing as them.
So it to me I that's why I was like, oh yeah, okay, that makes sense.
Like it doesn't
To me, it doesn't make sense to say blanket no to all of it.
There are some benefits, yet still I think it's important to note as the caregiver, it should be within
pretty strict boundaries.
And those boundaries, like what I was finding, was apparently having just a time-based boundary.
That's not enough.
It has to be a lot more than that.
And you have to have constant conversations with your kids.
I've been really thinking about the addictive nature of phones and gaming systems, especially because we had that puberty discussion.
And then when we look at apps like TikTok with the endless scrolling and even Instagram too.
or Snapchat with the streaks.
Do you see potential for significantly altering the development of our kids' brains?
Because it seems to me that especially without having strict boundaries or devices and platforms, they're reinforcing addictive loop.
It's addictive, so you keep using it.
And by doing that, if you go back to our puberty discussion, it's pruning the the neurons in your brain and sort of reinforcing your brain and growing it so that it that's what it needs.
That's what it needs.
It c needs that constant dopamine hit from scrolling and finding the next funny video.
You have to scroll through a few to find the next funny one
So I just it I've been thinking about that a lot.
So it seems especially without having some strict boundaries, they create this reinforcing addictive loop.
So do you have any long-term concerns about this from a developmental standpoint?
Absolutely.
I think every developmentalist, every educator, every well-known psychologist out there is talking about this right now.
Right, because it is it's a huge concern for us and we're seeing that.
So we're seeing that in the school system where kids are having a harder time paying attention in class, harder times sitting still, right?
And and we're seeing that
in the homes where kids are sneaking screens, right?
And and they're not as engaged in activities that they used to enjoy.
That's a big thing.
that I teach to parents is because one of the things I teach in in my screen time workshop is how do you know when it's a problem?
And one of the ways you know it's a problem is when things that they used to enjoy are no longer enjoyable to them
Right.
And and that goes back to what you're saying about that dopamine rush and how your brain now craves that.
And it craves it in that rapid way that you can get on your phone.
It's very hard to replicate that in real life.
Right, so now your brain wants more of that, of course, because that's how your brain is wired to want more things that bring that pleasure.
Yeah, you can still of course get dopamine from those activities, but it's not
in the same way.
Yeah, it's not as easy.
It's not as easy as when you're scrolling through your phone.
It's right there.
You don't have to go walk to the park to get it, right?
You don't have to pick up the phone, call your friend, wait till they come over.
There's no waiting.
It's just right there.
It's like an all-you-can-eat buffet, right?
It's all it's all right there.
And I think that's we're seeing a lot of kids just can't seem to get past wanting to be on the screen.
And I hear it from parents all the time, right?
It's like
As soon as they're on that, I can't get them to do anything else.
Now they're stuck on it for the whole rest of the night.
And yes, so I would say definitely I am concerned about it and I'm concerned about the implications that it has socially
for our children as well.
I think you hear from I hear from a lot of teachers, parents of older kids who have been on their
phone for many years already that their kids are not developing socially in the way that they would have expected either.
They're not asking their friends to come over for play dates.
Like ever every social interaction that they're having is through their phone.
And it makes me think of I saw this group of teens at the park the other day, teenage girls, and they were texting uh boys.
I could just tell from how they were talking.
And they knew they were texting the boys' lies.
Like they were saying that they were somewhere different and then they were laughing about how the guy was gonna go there and go
find them and they're not there because they're at the park, you know.
And it's so easy to start having all these false conversations even.
Yeah, I guess it's way easier.
Yeah, it's way easier to have these untrue conversations and then that boosts uh the dopamine or the rush at least in your body because you're
you're doing this and now there's that rush and it's creating a false sense of socialization and I think that's becoming very tricky.
So yeah, there's a lot of concerns, but I'm curious to hear how you feel, just as someone not in the field, but just observing children
Well, and I think let's say I know a bit more now, especially because I've been doing a bunch of like learning through all of this research that I'm reading.
And this is sort of related to my next question about if there is a right age for
let's say using screens or like a phone or something giving your child a phone or y letting them use social media because a lot of platforms
say 13 is the youngest that you can actually use the platform.
Yet there are lots of kids that are way younger that are using them, which first of all, I just will say
13.
I don't know for sure, but I think it's the COPA law in the US that was like one of the first, maybe not one of the first, but one of the biggest for protecting children's data rights.
So 13 is that limit so that anyone under 13, you can't be harvesting their data.
And then 13 to 18, you need a parent to approve it.
But that was heavily lobbied by corporations.
So in my mind, it's likely significantly lower than what it should be.
And it's it has no there's no concern for like mental health or developmental any of that.
They're not considering any of that.
It's mostly just for data harvesting.
But I was thinking, especially after we just did our puberty episode, it's challenging because on one hand
This stuff is not this is not going anywhere.
It's just gonna constantly develop.
You, of course, as a parent, you don't want your child to fall behind and not know how to use a computer or a phone or something.
But then on the other hand, he talked about as soon as they hit puberty and they have those hormones flooding their system all of a sudden at the same time
a part of their brain that's more emotional is developing at a faster rate than the logical part of their brain and therefore it's much harder for them to make logical decisions because their emotions, their feelings are taking control.
And if you feel
Like, first of all, I'm gonna miss out because everyone else is on Snapchat or everyone else is on whatever TikTok that's gonna control your thinking more than
Well my parents are telling me this isn't really good for my brain.
It's not helping me develop properly.
And I don't know that I have answers.
Honestly, after reading all that research that and
We delayed this podcast recording just because I felt like there was so much information that I wanted to I don't know, my brain is filled with so many of these ideas and like
You sound like me.
Not that they're necessarily conflicting, but it's like these aren't going away.
These are gonna be a part of their lives.
So we can't just blanket no
you can't have access to any of it because that doesn't make sense.
It's gonna be part of their life.
They have to learn how to use it.
But then also you want to protect them for as long as you possibly can because
their brain just is literally not capable of handling it unless you as a parent, let's say myself with our daughters
are like very much in the know of if okay if this if our daughter is using Snapchat I need to know all of the different features in it.
I need to understand like what are the risks myself
And explain that to them because they're not gonna be the ones to learn that.
Mm-hmm.
Let's say something like Snapchat.
There's a lot of fun aspects of it
But I think there's this sense of security that it gives you that the messages after 24 hours are deleted.
So you have this almost false sense of security that I'm putting this out there, it's gonna be gone in 24 hours and never to be seen again.
But I I think that's something as a parent I would have to tell our our daughters anything you put on there could easily be screenshotted and once
One person does that even if you think you trust them, it's out there forever.
I recently did a talk to a group of
children eight grades five through eight and that was one of the questions that came up from the children there was it is something I post
around forever, right?
And we started talking about digital footprint, right?
And how and even if it's deleted, like on Snapchat, someone could have taken a screenshot, right?
Any anything that you put out in your digital world
can be out there for the case.
Yeah, it's no longer yours.
It's essentially in the public domain after that.
And even having that conversation, they did not understand a lot of the children did not understand that prior.
to me saying that.
And you could just see people's eyes like bugged out, like, oh my goodness, the thing I said is gonna be out there forever.
And the one child came up to me after and said
So anything I've sent via email or Snapchat could be out there and we said yes.
And you could just see he was like, oh no, this is not good, right?
And and I think that's where
You're talking about of you have these children going through puberty with the very emotional brains and you think of yourself at that age, and we're not setting them up for success if they just have free reign.
Right?
Knowing hundred percent not.
And and I was thinking what you were about what you were saying, because I hear this a lot, right?
The argument to have our kids on social media is
Well, they're gonna have access to social media, so we should give it to them so that they can learn how to use it, right?
But I also I kind of think about the other things that we have access
access to as adults that we don't necessarily have access to as kids, right?
Like even let's say driving a car.
Like you have to wait till you're 16 to drive a car, even though everybody's gonna have access to driving a car, but your brain's just not developed enough to know how to do that yet as until you're around 16, 17, right?
And even when you do start to drive a car, you have a lot of guidance and support and your parent has to be in the passenger seat and all of these things before you can go and do it on your own.
And I kind of feel it s should be similar for social media.
Like we should be waiting far longer until their brains developed enough to start to understand things.
And then it should really be
the parent in the passenger seat until they're capable of driving it on their own.
But I I feel like that's a good metaphor for what we're talking about for social media, instead of just being like, oh my
my child's in grade five, every other grade five student has it.
Eventually they're gonna have it anyway.
I'll let them have it.
Yeah.
You know, I I feel like there's an approach that eventually lets them have it, but it's a lot more coaching.
So this is where
And maybe it's because we just had recently an issue with our oldest daughter and a a boy who has clearly been using a device and knows certain things that he shouldn't know and is way too young.
But I just think
Personally, it is incredibly naive for a parent to give their child a device with free reign, with no training, for the parent not to not even know what they're allowing their child to do.
Like in that so
I said I'm not 100% convinced of a blanket no statement to devices and social media and whatever access online.
I stand by that, but
I think a blanket no is better if you don't understand what you are allowing your child to have access to.
It's just incredibly naive because it's so easy to access way too many negative things.
And they they cannot handle that.
Like adults.
can hardly handle the addictive nature of these platforms and devices.
So it's just it's to me crazy to expect that your child, just because they're gonna be using it anyway, you can't just give it to them
Yeah.
And we're so passionate about it because I mean I will say this is the number one thing we're talking about like we're hearing about at Nurtured First and also through my therapy practice.
Like this is a huge, huge topic right now
And what we're seeing is so many children who are on this without restriction, right?
Without without the boundaries, without the parent in the passenger seat.
And they have tablets, devices, computers in their room, right?
They have unlimited access, unlimited time.
And maybe the parent knows, okay, you're playing Roblox.
Okay, so they know what the game is, but they don't understand that on Roblox
You can go ahead and talk to anyone, anywhere, right?
And you can form groups.
And I just I was talking to a parent literally yesterday about Roblox, actually.
Their child is on Roblox.
And they supervise their child quite well because you can create groups on Roblox of in chat on those groups.
And so the child's not allowed to add people to her group to chat, right?
But then apparently someone was messaging the child and saying, Hey, I know you, you know, add me to your group to chat and started saying things to be like, I know who you are, you know, you know me from school, but the child
Could tell it was a little bit fishy, so she brought it to her mom and her mom read the text and she's like, But mom, they say they know me, you know, so it should be okay for me to add like they're saying that they know who I am
Then the mom really had to coach her daughter through, like, well, how would you think that's true?
Right?
And and her daughter was only eight and so young and and didn't understand that just because someone says
I know you and you know me, that doesn't mean that they're telling the truth, right?
The daughter automatically believed that this person was being truthful.
Because why wouldn't they?
Because why wouldn't they?
And and that's the kind of situation we're talking about.
You think you've given your child the tools, you think you've talked them through it.
But people are very convincing online and to just give them free reign and not be that parent, like this parent is there
Like while her daughter's playing it, she's right beside her, making sure that she sees every single thing that's going on.
But unless that's the case, a game like that with open ended to people on the internet
is really a recipe for your child talking to people and hearing things and getting connected with people that they shouldn't be.
Yeah, and I just think
What the research does say is devices that are used outside of common areas is just usually not a good idea.
It's always best to just have a location that you are allowed to use devices.
You have your computer
a family computer or your child has a laptop or something for school.
It can only be used in let's say or your living room or your area.
Yeah.
Or your
Like we have a little desk in our in our kitchen, so using it there.
Yeah, that's the number one thing I teach parents as a protective factor in the talks that I do.
is to always have it in a public space.
And that's often surprising for parents too, right?
Because they're allowing their kids to take their tablets up to their room.
And it makes me think of the documentary or the show, sorry, Adolescence that we watched
And one of the lines in that show really stuck with me, which was, we thought he was safe.
He was in his room.
Right.
And that's I think what we're thinking.
We're thinking our kids are safe.
They're home.
Right?
They're in their room.
And for a lot of kids, their parents maybe are working or they're busy or they're out.
And so parents have this sense of, okay, well I know that they're in their room and they're safe.
But what we don't know is what they're getting into and the possible threats that are online.
Well, the reality is while they are physically at home, they're accessing content from literally every corner of the entire world.
So it they are essentially roaming the streets kind of on their own without like if you're not a part of it, they're doing it on their own.
Hey friends, so at pickup last week our daughter asked Scott a truly kind of tricky question in front of her younger siblings.
Scott was telling me that when he heard a question like this, he used to panic, but this time he had a plan.
And he said to our daughter, Thank you for asking.
Let's talk tonight when we've got privacy.
And that's a line that he learned straight from our new body safety and consent course at Nurtur First.
So this new body safety and consent course is taught by me.
So Jess, if you listen to this podcast, you know me.
I'm a child therapist and a mom of three, and I have taught body safety and consent education for years.
This course takes all my years of experience teaching this education and gives you calm, age-appropriate language for body parts, consent, and boundaries.
You'll learn how to teach your kids that no means no, you'll learn how to teach them to read facial cues, you'll talk about safe and unspeakable.
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There's guidance inside this course for the real life stuff, like tickling that goes too far, and even the difference between a secret and a surprise.
We made this course at Nurture First because research shows that body safety education helps kids speak up.
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So check the course out at nurturefirst.
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And just full disclosure here, we are the creators of this course and we're so proud of it.
Should I share my little social experiment that I was doing?
Yeah, sure.
So this has been a big topic for me in April.
I did a bunch of talks on it.
And, you know, one one of the pushbacks is, well, what if I just let my child have Instagram
Right, so that's an example.
It's pretty safe on there.
They can just follow people that they know and you know, just have a private account just follow people that they know.
So I thought I would test that out and see how quickly it takes my algorithm to turn into something.
So I'm on my own private account
This is on my private account.
There I only follow like a hundred people that are my personal friends and family.
And I thought to myself, I'm gonna try and go on here and imagine that I'm like a 14-year-old girl
And I'm just gonna pause when I scroll through my reels on things that a 14-year-old girl would probably pause on, right?
So things like other kids around that age.
I saw some fashion-related things.
Just just things that I tried to visualize myself as a 14-year-old girl, what I might be interested in
So it started pretty harmless.
There was just some cute videos of different teenage girls.
I saw a lot of travel stuff, a lot of uh young women.
Then it it kind of translated to w young women in like their early twenties.
I saw a lot of travel stuff
So I kept going with that and I would just keep just kind of watching stuff I thought teens would watch.
Within a couple days, my entire reels were of OnlyFans accounts.
And um
influencers, I I should clarify, influencers promoting their OnlyFans.
And what it was, it was influencers early 20s, so again, really, really young.
And I took a bunch of screenshots that I'll probably share around the time this episode airs on my social media, but I took a bunch of screenshots of what I saw.
And most of these accounts were promoting
OnlyFans and actually their target audience was young women.
And their target sorry, you say young women, but you're talking about girls.
Girls.
Yeah.
Sorry, girls.
And in the screenshots that I have, they're talking about how they look so young and that's why men like them on OnlyFans and that's why they make millions of dollars and they start showing their cars
And then once you really get into it, then I really got then my research brain started clicking on.
I'm like, what is going on?
Why are they you would think that they'd be targeting men to come watch their OnlyFans accounts.
So why is this being targeted to girls
teenagers really and some of the accounts that I was seeing they actually were teenagers.
So when you go to their account it would say so and so 17 years old.
but they were making content.
So one of the accounts um I have that saved as well.
I guess saved all of this stuff.
She's seventeen years old and she's doing these dances.
She's in really skimpy outfits.
So she's not doing OnlyFans yet
And her whole thing was, when I turn 18, I'm gonna do an OnlyFans account.
So she was setting herself up so that the second she turns eighteen, she can turn an OnlyFans account on.
And the more I got into it, there is more and more accounts of these girls, 17, 16 years old, setting themselves up without doing anything nude.
Videos, dancing, all of this stuff.
So that by the time they turn 18 they can they can monetize an OnlyFans account.
So like these let's say early twenties women that they're basically grooming these girls into joining.
Yes
So the early twenties women.
So sir, what's the benefit to the the women that are already on that platform?
Like what's the benefit to them that these girls would be so following and trying to join?
What I'm uncovering or what I'm starting to understand
So the way I got to start seeing these sixteen, seventeen year old girls is they are in videos with these other girls who are already on OnlyFans accounts.
And I think that they have some sort of house or some sort of system where you can come into kind of their fold and start being in their videos and all of this stuff.
where I'm sure there's some sort of money exchange when you start your OnlyFans.
There's some kind of cut.
It it reminds me of an MLM, the way that it seems to be set up.
But it's a lot about send in your videos, you know, and and we'll welcome you into our house and look we we just brought this person in, she just turned 18 and it is a whole system, it's a whole other world, but it took me no time to get into it
And all of a sudden my entire feed is filled with these girls.
And and I'm still exploring this because, you know, obviously as a mom of girls, I'm curious about this, but also as a therapist
I'm highly disturbed at how quickly I got onto that and this entire ecosystem is very, very disturbing, especially seeing these 17-year-old girls and the fact that their whole thing is as soon as I turn 18, this is what I'm gonna be doing
You know, so nothing's illegal, but the male followers and the female followers who follow them are just getting ready for that day and then they'll launch their OnlyFans accounts.
And what they're really trying to do to these young women is say, look at this lifestyle that you can live, right?
They show their cars, they show their fancy houses and their pools and all of these things.
And all you have to do is post your body on OnlyFans and you can have all of this, right?
And you think about these young girls who are craving belonging and connection and maybe come from low income backgrounds, this is gonna look like a great way out.
Right.
And a lot of them will even bring in their parents.
They'll be like, see I bought my this car from my parents and I did this for them and anyway, the whole thing is really disturbing.
And what I'm like trying to say by that is that's on a private account where I just follow my friends.
But that doesn't mean that other things can't come up on my reels and my for you page or whatever it is, right?
And so we just want to be careful, even if we think
It's safe.
And that's one thing.
Like I could have gone down the teenage boy route and who knows, maybe I see a whole bunch of stuff from uh I kinda doubt you
It'd be interesting.
Maybe I'll do that next and see.
I sort of doubt you'd be able to get to that because you probably have to put your gender into I can't remember.
You must have when you signed up for it.
But anyways.
I changed my mind.
It's a blanket no statement.
But I see what you mean about the culture and I see what you mean about that, but I feel like there's a way to do that without open access to social media.
Yeah
Like I said at at the beginning, I changed my mind on like blanket no, but I'm still very confused about what to actually do.
Like I could see, let's say
you have a disability, right?
And I know Brooklyn was on and she's disabled.
And for her, she has a real sense of community with her Facebook group of other people that have the same disability or various disabilities.
Yeah.
Right.
So there could be a way th
If as a parent you have a disabled child, this is just an example, that maybe you join a Facebook group through your account
for them and then they can spend some time on there talking to people and posting things.
Right.
And it honestly can be a great way to connect if it's used for that.
But I think the vast majority, let's say of my use case, is pretty much just scrolling.
Yeah.
So that's why it's pretty rare that I go on and if I do it's probably just looking at reels or something like that and just finding funny reels.
And that's about it.
Mm-hmm.
But I have a feeling most people use it in that way most of the time.
Yeah, and I so I think if you want to expose your child to other people that are similar to them or they feel isolated, that's a great way that
But you do it together, you know, if we're talking about children.
It's not something that you just set them up on Facebook or Instagram and say, here you go.
Yeah, but I also think that it's possible parents will be like, well
they want their independence and we want to give that independence to them.
Which, I mean, I would have an answer to that, but I'm wondering what you think.
I I mean I hear that question a lot, right?
It kind of reminds me of everything where you get to independence, but it's only through first being dependent and learning and growing through that dependence, right?
It's the same for like sleep.
Like kids learn how to sleep well first because their parent has
been with them and kind of, you know, nurtured them, rocked them to sleep and the eventually over time they learn how to sleep on their own, right?
Yeah
It kind of makes me feel like this is similar where we can't just say, yeah, they want to be independent, so here you go, right?
Yeah.
It's like if okay, so you want independence, but first
we have to s work together to get to that point.
It's not just here you go, right?
It's let's do this together until I can give slowly, slowly step back.
But still being there and give you a little bit more space.
Um but I I wouldn't ever say we should just give kids independence because they seek it.
Well and I think
Like we were talking before, I personally think that parents have less of a handle on the capabilities of these apps and devices.
They have less of a handle on that than our kids do.
I think
We might be okay like I have let's say for social media you might be better at understanding all of the capabilities and how all that works for the devices I would be
But I think in general that's probably not the case.
So how much of an issue do you think the this parental knowledge gap is
when it comes to understanding what our kids can actually get into and then trying to create meaningful boundaries.
Cause if like I was saying before, if you don't even understand the capabilities of Snapchat, how can you actually create boundaries around Snapchat for your kids?
Yeah.
Or Instagram.
If you don't even know like what you could possibly get into unless you do exactly what you did and trial trial it out, how can you even create any meaningful boundaries for your kids
'Cause I think we heard this this week, right?
Like uh parents often will say, like, my child would never try and search for that
Of course.
Which makes sense.
Like our daughters, I would think that they would never search for it.
But the reality is it's gonna find them.
It's not that hard to find it.
And especially if you don't know how to search for things, you're gonna search the wrong thing.
and something's gonna pop up.
Everyone has that story, right?
You you're searching something else as a k kid who has internet for the first time, right?
and something totally different pops up, right?
It it doesn't take much to for that to happen.
So it's even if you have the best kid in the world with the best intentions in the world
that doesn't stop the internet from being the internet or from Instagram being Instagram, right?
Like things will just happen to them, like you said, even if they're not s seeking it out.
But yeah, I hear that all the time.
Like, well I trust my kid.
Well that's good.
But I like I don't trust the internet.
Right?
Like It's a powerful tool.
Yeah.
But power means you can find literally anything
And it's a couple clicks away.
Yeah, so we need to be aware of that.
One of the things I teach in my workshops is always if you
think you might want to give your child access to it to do exactly what I just did.
First you get access to it.
Use it for a while.
See what's all on there.
Use it as you think your child might use it.
And I find a lot of parents once they start doing that, like what I just did, they're like, oh
Okay.
I had a parent say they did that for Snapchat, very similar, because you can scroll through things on Snapchat as well on the Explore page.
And they had a very similar experience to what I just described.
And then they were like, yep, nope, we're good.
We're not going to be using that with my kid.
So I think as parents, like the onus is really on us to make sure we understand what our child is using.
I I think when it comes to Roblox and
These games that are online, that's where a lot of parents aren't understanding all the possibilities of the things.
Yeah.
Well it's unrealistic for them to like create an account and play for hours and hours and try and like
replicate that even with like social media, I just to be honest, I feel like in a perfect world every parent would do that, but I just don't see it happening.
I think you might download it and play around a little bit, yeah.
People are busy.
Some parents literally just don't care, right?
So it's
I yeah, I guess that's like a realistic or um an ideal world scenario.
I think a lot of maybe a lot of people who listen to us they would probably do it.
But I have a feeling the vast majority of parents are not going to bother with that.
So our girls are not into things, let's say the gaming piece.
Like they've never asked to play Minecraft or Roblox or any of those games that I know Fortnite.
a lot of the young boys especially are playing.
If you were a parent and your son wanted to play one of those games, how would you respond to that given everything that you know?
I would likely look into what parental controls are available.
Like I would turn off all chatting features, all like anything that would allow them to connect with others on that those platforms, that would be the first thing I would do.
And if that's not available, then I would just I would likely not allow them to use it.
And here's the pushback.
So
all of this is what I hear at least, all of their friends are using it.
Every boy in their class uses it.
So if they're not on there, then they're the only one.
And that's all they talk about at school.
So
He's gonna be the only one who doesn't know what all the boys are talking about at school.
Right.
Well, in my situation, I would say, Jess, I think you need to do a free talk at our school to get all the parents on board with using these devices intelligently
Here's the thing, parents don't all come out to it.
I know.
Well yeah, that's the other thing too, right?
It's potentially a lot of people don't want to hear the realities of this and it keeps their child entertained, so
That's a great thing.
Great in quotation marks.
A great thing because then I can do other things.
I can work.
I can clean the house.
I can do whatever
Yeah, I don't know.
It would be a challenging thing.
I think it would we would have to have I'm not a hundred percent against them playing with other friends.
I mean they can have maybe a Discord server and
play with their friends on there, but then we need to have access to it.
We need to hear what's going on so they can't be No headsets.
Yeah.
Which I guess like it's gonna kind of defeat the purpose of it for them.
But
Like I think that's the s kind of stuff, the sort of boundaries that I would have for that.
Yeah, and these are the sort of questions parents are asking, right?
Same with Snapchat.
Well, every other girl in grade six has Snapchat.
So my daughter's gonna be the only one to not have it.
You know, that Snapchat, yeah, a hundred percent.
I feel like that's a terrible platform.
Obviously.
Those are the questions parents are having, right?
And I think I think unless I don't know
It comes from the biggest thing.
And maybe I'm being too black and white on this, but like Snapchat, like all these platforms, but s Snapchat in particular, I think gives kids
a false sense of security.
So they do far more risky things.
There's possibility for like just fun filters and that kind of stuff.
But I think it's the attraction is the fact that it's
It's not the filters because you can get filters on any platform.
It's the fact that you are sending a message to someone and it's deleted in 24 hours.
I think that's the biggest thing.
And then they have this like the snapstreaks where you can
They reward you being on.
They they reward you for being on there.
So then of course a child is going to.
But I just I personally think
As a parent, the onus is on us.
We are required to understand it incredibly well before we just allow our child onto these platforms.
Yeah, and and the reason I'm just kind of pushing on those pieces is because I think a that's a lot of the reason why parents in their own words cave and give their kids Snapchat or let their kids on online beaming because they're like
the fear of their child missing out on something is so high and they don't want to disappoint their child or make their child feel like the outlier in their class.
Is that wrong though to like
Are they truly going to miss out on meaningful connection if they're not on Snapchat or they're not on Roblox or
Like personally, I agree with everything you're saying, right?
That's what I also say.
And I I try and encourage parents to be the cultivators then of meaningful connection.
Right.
The end parents will say, you know, well if their friends come to our house, we're the only house that has rules around screen time.
And so we talk about, okay
Well, you know, it's not like you're gonna steal their phones as soon as they get to your house, but maybe there's a bowl and the phones go in the bowl when they're not using it, so that you're not worried about all of them in your daughter's room on their cell phone and
Maybe you're the house that's a big thing.
Someone's gonna sneak or one of them's not gonna hand it in or what like it's it's not.
I don't think that's realistic either.
It might work sometimes, maybe, but I just don't think that that
It depends on your relationship with your child and their friends, right?
Yeah.
Right?
Like I think if you have a really connected relationship with your child's friends and they trust you and and they listen to you, then they'll do that.
But if they don't care
about you, right?
Yeah.
Then they're gonna just sneak it out as soon as you're not looking.
So it I it goes back to relationship, right?
And that is something I do encourage parents is trying to make relationship with their child's peers and friends and
And cultivate those relationships outside of social media so that their child still has that.
And to know it's okay to disappoint your child.
You have to kind of think of the long game, not just w what are they saying right now that they're gonna be so mad at you about
But what are they gonna say when they're 30?
And you're talking about when they got Snapchat at 13, right?
So think of the long game.
Like do you wanna disappoint your child now or do you wanna
Not that you're for sure gonna disappoint them later, but like what kind of conversations do you wanna have about it when they're older?
Yeah.
Well I've been having actually quite a few I don't even know if you've been a part of all of them, but quite a few conversations with our oldest daughter because she's been bringing up
There's kids in the grade ahead of her, so grade three, that have phones and are on the bus with phones and tablets and
This has been coming up a lot in our home.
Yeah.
And that's probably why I'm a little more fiery on this one, just because I think that is absolutely insane.
There's no child at nine years old
that ever needs a phone or tablet on the bus.
No part of that makes sense to me.
The tablet piece I might have something to say about, but the phones I agree.
On the bus?
No neurotypical child ever needs
Like I would just say typically there's it doesn't make sense to me.
Yeah, if you have a neurotypical child who's on the bus.
Yeah.
Uh we can give
journals for coloring, you can give them toys, you can give them they have books, they have their friends on the bus, right?
There's
A lot of options.
Especially at that age, I just think it doesn't make sense.
So going back to I was having I've been having these discussions with our oldest.
about phones and being on social media and even being on like watching too much TV or And I said, none of those things are bad.
But my job or mom and dad's job as your parents is to make sure that your brain grows in the best way that it possibly can so that you are like after your
old enough to leave our home and you want to do that, you'll be ready to face the world and you'll have the like your brain will be developed in a way that
You're not constantly distracted by everything.
You're not you're able to have meaningful conversations and meaningful connections with with people.
You're able to tell differentiate between
people who are truthful and untruthful or trustworthy and untrustworthy.
So I've said to her a bunch that there are certain things
In life that are addictive, and I said in my family there's drug users, there's alcohol abusers, there's
Whatever, like I love coffee and it's it is honestly addictive.
And I said, I truly think that phones kind of fit into this category.
You're just
it you're craving that fix from the phone.
So then giving a child a phone or a tablet is not going to help your brain develop in the best way.
It's best to try and steer clear of all those things that are so addictive so that your brain has the ability to develop.
I I've explained what critical thinking is and it
develop an ability to connect with people emotionally and all of that stuff.
But I said phones and social media and all of that will make it more difficult for your brain to actually develop those abilities.
And then after I explained that.
In that way, she un seemed to understand that it made a little bit more sense to her.
Like even if other kids are using it, that doesn't necessarily mean that's a good thing for you.
And I think what this also highlights
is just to bring it back to the relationship again.
You have that relationship with our daughter above and beyond the screen time conversation that's trusted and solid
So when you say something like that to her, she receives it from you.
Yeah.
Because she trusts you.
And I think as the years go on, and yeah, sure, maybe all of her friends are on Snapchat.
I hope that's not the case, but
You know, if everyone else is using it and we say no, then we have that relationship to fall back on where yeah, she might be mad at us, right?
Of course she's gonna be moody, she's a
gonna be a tween, right?
She's gonna be moody.
But our relationship is solid enough that we can handle her being disappointed and angry about a rule that we made.
And that's why I really encourage parents like above and beyond the screen time discussions, how are we facilitating and nurturing that relationship with our kids so that when we set those boundaries, they trust it and they don't go
around us.
They trust that we have their best interests in mind because we've been setting that stage since day one.
Yeah, I agree.
I think
that if this conversation was had with me in that way, I probably would have well, I wouldn't have loved it, but I would have maybe accepted it.
as reality for myself as a kid.
But I was honestly one of those kids.
Like I bought my own computer when I was in, I think, grade six or grade seven.
So I saved up a bunch of money and bought my first Apple computer.
And it was the best thing ever.
And I played video games and we had just I think just got high speed internet and like it was just fast enough that I could play some games online.
And I talked to adults that were in like Florida and
Like whatever all across North America some in Europe and stuff and I was talking to these random people.
Mm-hmm.
My parents had no idea
They had no idea who you'd be talking to, right?
They would have zero c they would think that it was probably just other kids like me that were playing.
Meanwhile you're talking to random olds and mostly older guys that I was talking to.
Yeah, and and that was then, right?
Yeah, that was so and things have changed a lot since then.
Okay, so if a parent decides no to a specific app or device, what advice do you have for communicating that decision in a way that a child can understand and hopefully respect?
Especially when they see their friends, potentially all of them, using it.
Yeah, I think we want to avoid the because I said so vibe.
Right.
I think it's really important to have a reason why we're saying no and to clearly express that reason to our children.
I think they deserve to have
the information that we have about why we're saying no, right?
So whether we're saying no because of the online chat
feature where we're talking about Snapchat where things disappear, you know, and the inappropriate content.
I think if a child's old enough to be asking to use it, they're also old enough.
have to be told the potential risks for using it and why because of those risks as your parent whose job is to protect you
we've decided that the answer is no.
Yeah.
Right.
So I do I just think having that discussion, like really leveling with your kids and telling them why and then allowing for their feedback and not dismissing their tears.
Right.
Because for kids
If you say no to Snapchat to a 12-year-old girl whose entire friend group is on Snapchat, she's the only one that's not on there
That feels like you are saying no to her having friends, into her feeling a sense of belonging, into her being in her community, right?
So that is huge.
So we really do need to validate
how hard that is to hear and brainstorm with our kids other ways that we can make sure that they still get that need for belonging met.
Yeah.
You sort of answered my next question, which was what about inevitable disappointment or fear of missing out?
Yeah
So if their fe peers are all on these platforms, how do we help our kids cope with that?
So how are we helping their kids cope with that now?
and find genuine connection and validation offline.
That's the biggest thing, I think.
I think that in the younger years it's easier because it's not about a sense of belonging and friendship, right?
It's just about I want to watch Gabby's dollhouse
In the older years, it's so much more complex.
So I do think it's about really seeing how hard that is for your child, making sure that you're not dismissive of their feelings and just like, well, it's what I said.
So, you know
Deal with it.
You're fine.
I was fine when I was that age and I didn't have it.
You know, so I think that's really important to validate how hard that is.
It's so ideal if you have this again like the idealized world
uh at least one of their friends parents like if you're friends with one of their friends parents and you guys can just make an agreement together.
Like look
Let's both wait.
Yeah.
You know, so it if you can, a lot of parents are joining in this this movement of trying to wait to give their kids access to social media.
So if there's a way that you can connect with the other girls' parents in the class, at least one of them, so your child's not the only one.
Yeah, girls and boys, sorry, I was talking about Snapchat there, but
Which is predominantly girls, boys are on it too, but if you can connect with the other parents and have some sort of agreement and a lot of schools are trying to facilitate these discussions.
That's huge.
Because then your child's not the only one.
And then if that's not the case, where else can your child find socialization?
Right?
Maybe there's other places where you can take the lead on that
And then finally making sure that the option isn't just, well then I'm alone with nothing to do.
Right?
So connect with your child.
Take that out.
The research was very clear on that.
If the alternatives are one, I get social media or device use, and two
I can basically do nothing, then that's actually not gonna help your cause and will likely make your child feel way worse.
Yeah.
So again, if the question is, how do I belong to my peers, right, in this this social group?
then the answer can be, well, how do I make sure my child feels a sense of closeness within the home?
Right?
So maybe it it's not forgetting that just because they're between that they still need that time and they still need to feel connected
Yeah.
So how can you facilitate that in your home with your own kids or your family or cousins or wherever it is so they still have those feelings of connection?
Well, and arguably you could do the same thing, but with their friends, right?
Yeah.
And just say when they come over, then like have something planned for them to do.
Yeah.
That doesn't involve needing to use a phone or something.
Have some kids over to make something or you know, like for us, like let's 3D print something because you have the 3D printer or
Let's have them over to try and make a fancy cake or whatever it is, like have an activity and try and facilitate those times of real connection.
That's a great idea.
When the girls are older.
With their friends, we should do our own version of Is a Cake.
Yeah, I was just thinking, because I love that show.
That's a good that's a fun show.
Okay.
What are some core strategies parents can use
to foster a healthy overall relationship with technology in their family, especially considering our own use and understanding plays such a big part.
Yeah, that's exactly where I was gonna start.
It's how are you modeling it to your kids
If your kids see you endlessly scrolling TikTok or endlessly scrolling reels, then they're gonna think that's Reddit.
A Reddit
Yeah, Reddit's a big one.
If they see you doing that, then that's what they're gonna think a healthy screen time looks like, right?
You're the model.
So it's important for us as parents to be very mindful and to create the type of environment that we want
for our kids.
And I think often that really means looking in the mirror and trying to figure out what is actually healthy in terms of our own screen time use.
Because if you talk to the kids, like when I do
these talks with kids, most of them will say, Well my mom's on their phone on her phone all the time and even I find with the kids explaining what you're doing.
Right.
I this year and I've talked about this on the podcast, I've been trying to be much more intentional about my phone used in front of the kids.
I think I'm doing a much better job.
And if I'm on there, sometimes I do have to work for an hour and they're watching a show, right?
And I'll be doing some work and they're watching a show and I'll tell them.
I'm working right now while you're watching your show.
Right.
Or if I'm on my phone a different time and I'm doing something specifically for work, I'll be clear about why I'm on it and not just
randomly scrolling the internet, right?
I think that that's also helpful so they can see the use cases for when you actually do need to be on your phone.
And then also the question is do I have to do that right now?
Right.
So it's a bigger question about our own screen addiction as adults.
Yes.
And so a part of that question was also our understanding playing a big part too, right?
So our understanding of the things that they want to use.
So whether it's their phone or an app
I think the minimum is ensuring that there's parental controls put in place on both their devices and the apps that they use.
So you have the ability to create these boundaries around how and what they're using.
But I do think understanding plays a huge part in how we can both model
to our kids but also help them use these things.
So that involves like if you're if let's say our daughters want to use Snapchat.
Like at this point I'm not 100% convinced either way that they should or shouldn't.
I'm leaning to more towards
not allowing it, but I would still want to put in the effort and look for it and seek out why they want to use it first of all and for what, and then see if
Maybe it's possible that the parental controls can actually allow so that they don't see anything but communications with specific people, that I allow them to be able to
to have access to.
Like I don't know that information at this point.
But that's how I would likely go through that process.
The thing about parental controls, I'll just briefly put a little piece in there.
is I hear from a lot of parents, oh well we have parental controls in place, so we're not worried about it.
Like I think we have to still stay a little bit worried about it, even when parental controls are in place.
Just wanna say that because I I've heard that a lot and then I've heard that backfire a lot.
Yeah, it's not as though that's the that's the minimum.
Yeah.
Right.
Putting those in place and making sure that you understand what that means and what they still have access to, even if you have these.
But then at least you have some sort of yeah, uh boundaries, the boundaries around.
We're using Snapchat often in this.
boundaries around who they can message and the types of messages may I don't know.
Maybe it's the types of messages they can send or and if I can accept or see who they're getting fun requests from.
And yeah, I don't know.
I feel like that's a minimum, but then also they have to, let's say, only use it in public areas of the house still.
It's still
a part of it.
Parental controls do not then allow them free reign to do it wherever they want.
Yeah, I just thought that was important to know.
No, that makes sense.
I think I want to end it here.
I feel strongly about it, mostly because of the stuff that we're learning is happening on our daughter's bus.
I think this conversation is very important
And I will say that I actually think that screens are not bad.
They're actually really great.
My own thinking is that they're really great.
But like I'm gonna be spending a ton of time trying to make sure that
And I know you will too, but that there's very clear use cases for it for our kids and boundaries around them and
we even know how they can be used.
I mean like a lot of things.
I want to intensely study it before I just say yes you can use it.
And I think that's what I hope a lot of other parents will try and do too.
Even if we're busy, it's I think being busy is not an excuse for
not creating the safest environment you can for your kids to learn how to use these things.
Yeah, I think it reminds me of what we were talking about.
You know, I thought they were safe in their room because they were on their phone.
And then you're saying, well, they have access to the whole world, right?
If your child was going into like a brand new social situation, what kind of research would you do and how would you make sure that they're protected?
Right?
And a I think about online as in the same way.
How would I make sure my child was protected if they were going to a playground with a group of
strange teenagers for the first time, right?
What would I do?
Right?
Like I'm trying to picture this in real life because it is real life.
It just it's through their phones, right?
And so I think
We want to make sure we're not under protecting them online when we would protect them way differently in person.
So that's helpful for me at least.
We were having a conversation about this a bit yesterday too.
Like I was saying, we are still kind of of a generation where we're what is that
considered like digital immigrants, I think is what a lot of people call it.
So as we got older, devices started coming into our lives and we started getting internet access later in life.
versus kids now are let's say digital natives where they are just it's been a part of their life and that's all they've known.
Yeah.
And I think I'm like we talked about yesterday, I think I might be the only person I know that had a uh computer as a child with internet so young.
Like I was probably the only person that I know of at our age that
that had that.
So I feel like I'm kind of in the same boat as kids now where I've kind of grown up with access to it.
I snuck on to it constantly.
I know what's out there.
I've seen it.
Yeah.
And it's incredibly easy to to access.
But I think a lot of the issue comes down to because most people, let's say you included, didn't grow up with that like daily.
and weren't using it, you don't necessarily understand the capabilities like our kids will.
Yeah, and I want to say even in the history of I've been doing these talks for quite a few years on social media and screen time.
I've even changed my tune a little bit.
Like I think even let's say three, four years ago when I was doing these talks, we had less information on it and the impacts than we have now.
So I will say I have actually firmed up on my stance of
waiting as long as possible to use it in comparison to what I taught four years ago.
So like and why I'm saying that is it's okay for parents to also kind of change their mind on this, right
When you know more, the way you view it might change.
And that's it's okay to say that.
And it's okay to take a step back and ask yourself, is how screen time is going in our family right now?
working?
Is it aligned with now the research and information that I have?
And it's okay to to make shifts, right?
I think that's part of learning and growing and being human.
And even as an educator, I've like I I was always, you know, talk about the risks and all of these things, but I think as more research has come out, we see that it's even riskier than I thought maybe
four or five years ago.
And platforms have developed.
There's new platforms now too, right?
So it's so if you've been doing this for four or five years already and you're like, yeah, it is definitely becoming an issue in our house, like the gaming's out of control or the Snapchat.
It's okay to st take a step back and just ask yourself, is this how I want to continue doing things?
Or do I want to make a change?
And it's okay to change your mind.
For sure.
Yeah.
Well thank you all for listening.
This was a really intense topic.
Yeah, hopefully I didn't get too intense in this one.
Obviously there's some passion here.
uh from both of us, but I think it's important that there's passion here because it's a part of our mission of protecting kids and creating safe homes for kids.
And right now this is something that
is often interfering in a child's safety.
And so I think it's protecting the whole family, not just the kids.
Yeah, not just the parents too.
And also good for us too.
keep in mind of what we're watching and if it's if it's serving us because I know that that's something that I've been thinking about a lot too as I model my screen time to my kids and our kids as well.
So thank you and thank you Scott for doing so much research.
This this was great.
There is I honestly will probably continue my research on this or uh reading all the research on it because I get the sense this is not our last episode on this topic.
There'll probably be many more.
'Cause it's so much more complicated and interesting than I th expected.
Yeah.
So it's Thank you for allowing me to
delay this episode.
No, it's okay.
I I love it because I've also been obsessively reading research on this for like the last six months.
So it's fun that we can talk about this together now.
Yeah, 100%.
Thanks for listening.
See you later.
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