Why Become an EA

In this episode of Federal Tax Updates, hosts Roger Harris and Annie Schwab are joined by special guest Megan Killian, Executive Vice President of the National Association of Enrolled Agents (NAEA).
 Megan discusses her background in association management and her role leading NAEA, the premier organization representing the interests of Enrolled Agents. She talks about the benefits of NAEA membership for EAs, including advocacy, education, community, and support obtaining the credential.
 The discussion covers NAEA's strategic priorities like membership growth, how the EA credential compares to the CPA, and efforts to address the talent shortage by promoting the EA path, including to accounting students and career changers.
 Megan also shares details on NAEA's ongoing fight to regulate paid tax preparers and protect taxpayers from unethical or incompetent preparers. Additional topics include getting involved with NAEA and using its resources to advance your career as an EA.

• (00:00) - Federal Tax Updates: Why Become An EA?
• (00:50) - Welcome Megan Killian to the show
• (01:36) - Megan's background and role at NAEA
• (03:41) - Benefits of NAEA membership for Enrolled Agents
• (05:39) - NAEA leadership and strategic priorities
• (08:42) - Promoting the Enrolled Agent credential
• (11:34) - Comparing EAs, CPAs, and other tax professionals
• (14:39) - The declining number of accounting majors and CPAs
• (18:23) - The EA exam as a faster credentialing path
• (20:25) - Addressing the talent gap by hiring EAs
• (23:16) - Helping employees become EAs
• (26:33) - Regulating paid tax preparers
• (30:27) - Efforts to pass federal preparer regulation
• (32:23) - Getting involved with NAEA
• (34:42) - Where to reach Megan and learn more

This Bonus Episode is NOT Eligilble for CE or CPE Credits

Learn more about becoming an EA https://www.naea.org/

Connect with Megan Killian
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/megkillian
Website: https://www.naea.org/about-naea/naea-evp

Connect with the Hosts on LinkedIn
Roger Harris
Annie Schwab

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Creators & Guests

Host

Annie Schwab, CPA

Franchisee Operations Manager at Padgett Business Services

Host

Roger Harris, EA

President at Padgett Business Services

Guest

Megan Killian

Megan Killian joined as the Executive Vice President of the National Association of Enrolled Agents in January 2021. She has more than 25 years of nonprofit and association experience. She is a member of the American Society of Association Executives and was awarded the certified association executive (CAE) credential in 2008. She is also a 2013 graduate of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce Institute of Organizational Management.

What is Federal Tax Updates?

CPAs, Enrolled Agents, and Tax Preparers can keep up-to-date with the latest federal tax information while earning NASBA approved CPE credits and IRS approved CE credits by listening to the bi-weekly Federal Tax Updates podcast. The hosts Roger Harris and Annie Schwab have over 75 years of tax experience between them, which has been featured in various media outlets including Wall Street Journal, USA Today, The Morning Business Report, Bloomberg Business News, and Accounting Today.

Warning: This is a machine-generated transcript. As such, there may be spelling, grammar, and accuracy errors throughout. Thank you for your understanding!

Roger Harris: The following federal tax updates. Podcast is a bonus episode and is therefore not eligible for CPE or CE. Thanks and enjoy the episode.

Roger Harris: Hello everyone. Welcome to another federal tax Updates podcast. This is Roger Harris. And as always I'm joined by Andy Schwab. Andy, how are you doing today?

Annie Schwab: Hey, Roger I'm doing great. [00:00:30] I'm doing really well. How about yourself?

Roger Harris: Not bad. Not bad getting. We're filming this right heading into the holidays. So I'm sure we're all wondering why we're working when everybody else is taking time off and right. Shopping for Christmas. So we're really excited. Today we have a special guest. Uh, Megan Killion from Nahia is joining us today, and we are really excited to have Meg with us. And Meg, welcome to our podcast.

Megan Killian: Thank you. Roger, thank you so much for having me. I'm very happy [00:01:00] to be here. And, uh, nice to meet you, Annie.

Annie Schwab: You, too. Welcome. Yeah.

Roger Harris: Megan, I go back a little ways. Well, I go back farther than Meg. Let me be very honest, but. But we're very excited to have her here. Meg, talk a little bit about your background. Then we'll talk a little bit about Narnia because you've been with Narnia now, what, a couple of years.

Megan Killian: And three years.

Roger Harris: Three years.

Megan Killian: Three years. Uh, next month will be my three year anniversary. So, you know, I switched jobs in the middle of the pandemic, you know, as one does. [00:01:30] Yeah. Right.

Roger Harris: Right. Great. So how long before you saw anybody in person that you worked with?

Megan Killian: It was several months. I mean, probably like six months until I actually physically went into the office and met some of the team. So, yeah, everything was completely virtual in the beginning. So that was that was definitely a learning curve and an interesting experience. Yeah.

Roger Harris: Different way to start a job.

Megan Killian: Exactly, exactly.

Speaker5: Yeah.

Roger Harris: So and you came where'd you come from when you came to Narnia? [00:02:00]

Megan Killian: So my background is, uh, mostly in nonprofit and association management. Um, uh, right before I was at GNI, I actually worked for a state CPA association, and I worked there for just over 18 years. So full time working with tax and accounting professionals. Um, I do not have a tax and accounting background, though. Um, mostly, you know, on the, on the management side and some marketing and things like that. But, uh, but I've learned a lot [00:02:30] over the years. You still wouldn't want me doing your tax return, but, uh, but I have you got a lot.

Roger Harris: Of people members that can do that.

Megan Killian: Exactly, exactly. Have people for that. So, um, but yeah. So I joined Narnia in January of 2021, um, as the executive vice president. Um, you know, just going through a lot of change with the pandemic and, um, you know, just trying to figure out what was going to be next for the organization in terms of how we were going to help our members, you know, get through [00:03:00] such a difficult time and, um, and then recover from that and what what was going to stick? Because a lot of things change during that time, the way members interact with the organization, the way they're interacting with each other, how they learn, the way that they're consuming information. And, you know, it's, uh, you know, we live in this digital world, but I think the pandemic just really thrust a lot of people into the digital world that maybe weren't quite ready. So, um, so we've been kind of evolving through [00:03:30] that, uh, since that time.

Roger Harris: Yeah, I think we're all still learning how we do so much more now. Um, yeah. Virtually than we ever did before. You know, it's interesting you mentioned you weren't counting in tax person. And I think sometimes people confuse. If you run an organization like NEA that you need to know how to prepare a tax return. But running an organization of IRS is a lot different than being an EA. And I think, you know, your skills are suited for running the organization, not [00:04:00] necessarily running a firm that prepares tax returns.

Megan Killian: Yes, definitely. It's, um, you know, volunteer management, strategic planning, um, you know, oversight, the operational piece of the organization. So managing all the personnel and I review our tax return, I don't do it, but but I definitely touch it and see it and make sure everything looks good. Um, but yeah, it's more the operational administrative side of, of running, you know, running [00:04:30] an association, running a nonprofit. Um, but we have a really, really exceptionally dedicated group of volunteers that serve on our board, that serve on our committees. Um, they are just very involved in, in the organization and are really what makes the, you know, makes things happen. Um, the team is here to support them. But, you know, the members are highly involved in, in what's going on from a strategy standpoint. [00:05:00] Um, and what we're doing from an advocacy standpoint, all those things, they're really instrumental in making sure that happens.

Roger Harris: Well, and I guess that's a balance between you've got full time staff and you've got volunteers and, um, staff is permanent volunteers change? Yeah. I guess that's some of the challenges that that you have a turnover in the volunteers, I guess. Is all of it annually or is it two years? How often does the volunteers turn over?

Megan Killian: So we turn over, um, a [00:05:30] handful of people on our board every year. So we actually we just finished the election for, um, going into 2024. Uh, yesterday the results were released. So, um, so we have a new slate of, uh, board, board of directors coming in. They'll start their, their roles in June. Um, really excited for this. This group, they're, you know, they're passionate. They're excited. They're they've got great ideas. So, um, so yeah, the continuity of the staff is there, [00:06:00] and that's wonderful to keep things moving.

Annie Schwab: How big are y'all?

Megan Killian: We have 12 staff members and we're just over 8000 members. So um, so we we've got it's a it's a larger.

Annie Schwab: Than I thought. Well, but a large group, that's, that's a lot of people to keep happy. Right.

Megan Killian: Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. But the nice thing about the turnover is you get new new ideas, fresh ideas, new perspectives, so that we can make sure we're constantly evolving and [00:06:30] meeting the needs of, of our members because, you know, they're living in a world and working in a world that's constantly changing as well.

Roger Harris: Yeah. Can that be difficult? I mean, is it maybe it doesn't happen this way, that you just all of a sudden have a new group of volunteers come in and turn around and go in the complete opposite direction of where you're going. How do you keep things the momentum going through the momentum, like Annie's point, so that you're not just spinning a year and then starting over?

Megan Killian: That's a great question. And that I think that's a that's a challenge [00:07:00] for a lot of associations, especially because there is the turnover and you have members that come in that, you know, maybe have ideas or have special projects. But the big thing is just keeping the board forward, looking and keeping them focused on our larger strategies. What are our priorities and how are we going to get there? So we one of the things that we did soon after I came on board was, uh, update our strategic plan. So we're now in the third year of our three year strategic plan, [00:07:30] and we'll be going through that process again over the summer to review where we are and where we want to go in the next three years and make adjustments for that. But making sure you have that sort of, um, that guideline that that roadmap of a strategic plan helps everybody sort of stay on track, stay prioritized, and make sure that we're not chasing after too many any, you know, too many squirrels. Um, so but it definitely [00:08:00] takes, you know, some, you know, management of expectations and volunteers and making sure that they're trained and aware and, and know what their role is as a board member.

Annie Schwab: Um, so what's top priority right now, if you had to pick one of the strategic items, I should say, what would you say? I mean.

Megan Killian: Membership is definitely a top priority. Um, probably not a big surprise for membership or organization, right? Right, right. But, you know, the the nature of associations has changed so [00:08:30] much in the last decade or so, just the advent of online learning and, um, everybody interacting online. And, you know, a lot of the things that the associations were providing are now being provided by a lot of other sources. So trying to maintain our relevancy, um, and keep that community together. Um, the one thing that hasn't changed, though, is advocacy. I mean, NEA was formed in 1972, um, as the organization [00:09:00] that would advocate for enrolled agents, um, and was the first one to do so. We're still the only one that's for enrolled agents. We do have state affiliates at the state level, um, at the national level. So, um, so that's a big part of what we do to make sure that we're promoting and protecting the credential, um, at the national level, but also at the state level in conjunction with our state affiliates.

Roger Harris: Yeah, because there's been some, some pretty hefty battles, particularly [00:09:30] on the state level, of what an EA could call themselves and what could they do and things like that. And, and I think an organization like yours is probably why you've been successful or the, the industry or the EA Group has been successful in defending, you know, their ability to, to do what the law intended for you to do.

Megan Killian: It's true. There has been quite a few times when there's been, um, either outright infringement or the threat of [00:10:00] an infringement on an EA's right to practice. Um, at the local level, at the state level. Um, as recently as 2022, we, um, we helped enact legislation in Minnesota that exempted enrolled agents from the state's restricted debt settlement service provider regulations. Um, you know, they were set forth for particular reason. It was a consumer protection issue, and just enrolled agents got kind of wrapped into that. [00:10:30] Um, it was kind of unintended consequences. But it took several years and lots of money and lots of time to make sure that we were able to get our enrolled agents exempt from that. And ultimately, we were successful.

Roger Harris: Wow. Yeah. No, it was I remember when that was going on. I mean, you've talked about that, but what else? I mean, I'm a I'm a practitioner somewhere in the United States. Uh, I assume I have to be an enrolled agent to be a member, I guess. Let me qualify first. Do I have to be an enrolled [00:11:00] agent to be a member, or is there a place for a non enrolled agent? We, um.

Megan Killian: We have associates as well. Um, you do not need to be an enrolled agent to be an associate, and we actually have quite a few of them. And that community is that segment of membership has been growing a little bit in the last few years.

Annie Schwab: Mhm.

Megan Killian: So.

Roger Harris: So I'm an associate or I'm an EA. Talk a little bit about what else besides the advocacy as it related to protecting. What else. Uh what's your elevator [00:11:30] pitch I guess for uh Nia in terms of that practitioners. Why should I join Nia because there's. Six eight. Organizations that say they represent the practitioner community. That's true.

Megan Killian: So yeah.

Roger Harris: What's what? What does Naia do that our listeners need to be aware of?

Megan Killian: Um, I mean, the big thing is the protection and promotion of the enrolled agent credential is, um, you know, there are about 65,000 enrolled agents. [00:12:00] And, um, it's it's slowly growing awareness, um, as more people are hiring, um, tax professionals and, and looking for someone that has specific licensing and, um, you know, specific tax expertise, and they're looking for someone that, um, that they can trust and rely on. So, you know, being in a religion is an important factor to consider when looking to hire, hire a tax practitioner, uh, [00:12:30] or a CPA or anyone that has, you know, has the background of being educated and licensed and trained in these things. Um, you know, as an association, we are a community of, um, professionals. And one of the things that's always impressed me about the tax community in particular is it's such a peer driven community where there's always colleagues, peers, helping peers. It's because, you know, so many of our members are sole practitioners. [00:13:00] They're in small firms. So, you know, their Naia group is really like their work colleagues, and they rely on each other to help answer questions and, you know, bounce things off of we have a a web board for members that's very active. And, you know, it's great. Our members are really willing to give of their expertise and their time to help each other. And, and I and I think that's just kind of the special sauce of Naia is that [00:13:30] is that community and how how well connected our members are.

Roger Harris: And you do a really good job. I know you offer a lot of education. Uh, for for members, which we all need. And and that's something that and we'll talk a little bit about advocacy on Capitol Hill, because I know you do a lot of that too. But Annie, talk a little bit about me. Annie's a CPA, and we have to be careful that we're not trying to say CPA. One's better, one's not better. It really comes down to the person, not the [00:14:00] letters behind their name. But Annie, talk a little bit about it in our group, how we kind of break down. I think we probably are. What majority is the majority.

Annie Schwab: Or EA's for sure. Um, we do have quite a few CPAs. Um, but I think the trend is more the EA route. I don't know if you're seeing your numbers go up. I feel like the CPA numbers are going down, so I don't know if that just makes it a little bit more comparable. But um, you know, there's education differences. There's differences in what you can [00:14:30] do as a practitioner. Um, but I don't think one is better than the other. I think it just depends on the person, the industry they want to be in, the type of work that they want to do in that field. Um, and I, and I think, you know, both have regulations to make sure that they maintain education and knowledge and, you know, circular 230 and all of these things that, um, protect the industry from bad actors or others holding themselves out there, um, to be a professional.

Roger Harris: Yeah. I think if you really [00:15:00] look in the tax world, I mean, in CPAs have a lot of authority to do things. Sure, in the audit field and things like that. But if you focus just on the tax world, um, I guess there's not a whole lot of difference between a CPA and an EY in that world. Uh, really?

Megan Killian: No, no, I mean, yeah, I would agree with Annie. It's not it's not a one is better than the other. It's really just what what's your specialty area? Why do you want to practice? What do you want to what do you want to focus on? Um, [00:15:30] obviously CPAs can, you know, do attestation work. Please don't do that kind of work. Um, but ease tax attorneys, CPAs can all represent taxpayers in front of the IRS. You know, that's that's a big reason why any tax practitioners should really consider getting the enrolled agent license. Yep. Um, because it's, you know, a big way to expand your practice and better serve your clients and just be more knowledgeable about the system in general, having having [00:16:00] that, that level of service. Um, but yeah, it's we're definitely seeing a lot of changes in the tax and accounting world for sure. You know, I know there's been shifts in in the CPA and accounting majors and all that. Um, there's, you know, lots of reasons. We could probably do a whole podcast on that issue. Um, yeah. Good.

Annie Schwab: Well, and it keeps changing. It's completely different from when I, when I took the exam, that was four parts. You took it all at one time in person. Now it's online [00:16:30] and you can take this one or that one. And you know, it's it's just it is a different type of environment. But like you said, none that's better than the other. So. Right. Right. Really. Yeah.

Roger Harris: I think CPA has the brand. I mean people just use that firm. And you know, I've you can be called a CPA when you're not of course because but I doubt anybody is called an EY. That's not you know, because that's probably the biggest challenge for for the EY. I'm not [00:17:00] saying nay, but the EY as a whole is that name just doesn't resonate.

Annie Schwab: Designation. Yeah.

Roger Harris: Yeah. I mean, you know, you'll get asked by a lot of people, are you a CPA when they don't even know why they're asking the question? But they'll ask, um, and you say you're an ey and they look at you like, well, what is that? So that's but that's not I mean, it's partly ease in ease challenge, but it's the challenge for every EY that's out there is their brand is just not as strong as CPAs. [00:17:30] And so but when it comes to the tax world, you know it really I said this all along. It comes down to how good you are as a person. You can put letters behind anybody and that can make them really good or really bad. Right?

Megan Killian: Right. And the awareness issue is definitely a big one, but it's also a numbers issue. I mean, there's what, 200 and some thousand CPAs out there in the, in the workforce and you know, 60 some thousand ease. [00:18:00] So there's just more more of them and. Right, um, and you're right, it really does come down to the person and their, their level of expertise and professionalism and, and their client services. So, you know, if you're looking for a tax professional, you can't go wrong with either one.

Roger Harris: That's I guess the biggest challenge. Maybe I may be wrong, but it would seem to me if I'm kind of. Ten years into my work life and I decide I want to go into the tax and accounting industry. It's going to be hard [00:18:30] to go back and recreate my education to become a CPA quickly, whereas the EA gives me a quicker path to to enter the industry, if that's of interest to me. Yeah. Which it could be. You know, we keep talking like these are all firm owners. We gotta remember we're hiring people.

Annie Schwab: Absolutely. Yeah.

Megan Killian: Yeah. I mean, that's I think, you know, there's a big talent gap at firms, um, in accounting firms and tax and accounting firms across the country. I mean, we've probably all been reading a lot about that [00:19:00] in the last couple of years. Um, and there's definitely, um, you know, EA's out there that can fill that void, that can fill that talent gap in a lot of these firms. So, you know, we've been trying to get out there and talk to more to community college students and high school graduates and encourage them to consider becoming an enrolled agent, because it is, you know, it's a it's a it's a quicker way to a credential. You still have to go through, you know, the the exam. [00:19:30] It's a three part exam. It's not easy. Um, but with the right preparation you can pass it. Um, you know, it's always better to have maybe a little bit of experience under your belt, but not necessary. Um, and, and there's, you know, I think for a long time, the enrolled agent was a second career option for those leaving IRS service or people just kind of changing careers, mid-life or whatever. Switching gears, yeah, I hear a lot [00:20:00] of that, but I kind of think that's changing a little bit. Um, when I, you know, when I'm out at events or, you know, I'm at the tax forums over the summer and just kind of looking at the, at the, uh, you know, the group of people that's there, it's such a wide range of ages and backgrounds and yeah, I mean, it's a super diverse profession. And I think there's so much opportunity there, both for hiring firms as well as individuals who are [00:20:30] looking for, you know, for that type of, of role. Um, you know, that that's what they're looking for. They're not interested in being an entrepreneur or working for themselves or, or some other scenario. There's definitely work out there for enrolled agents. Oh, yeah, a lot of other places.

Annie Schwab: Hiring is very difficult for our offices, for the industry in general. Um, I definitely can see that. And, you know, education is so expensive that fifth year for, you know, being getting the education [00:21:00] to sit for the CPA exam, I mean, that's a whole nother year. That's a whole nother, you know, two payments of large tuition dollars and, you know, the exam itself. Um, so it's, you know, if if you're looking for, like you said, maybe a faster way to get into the industry and still do the job that you have, you know, interested in doing, then I think EA is a great path. Um, especially, like you said, just coming out of school, maybe testing the waters career wise, uh, you know, [00:21:30] going that path makes makes a lot of sense.

Roger Harris: It's also one of the things and you can comment how often we see this, but I know we've seen it. If you have someone working for you who's just came to you. Really? Looking for a job, right? But they really get excited about what they're doing and want to better themselves. The E credential is doable, so you can take someone who came in and say, well, look, I want to help you advance in your career [00:22:00] and advance in this firm. The E path is a very doable path. It's kind of hard to say, well, I need you to go back and need you to go back to college. I need you to do all this. Right. And and then I've got to probably have you intern somewhere else before you can come back as a CPA. So it's a great way to take that employee who, by working in your firm, realize this is something that I want to do, and there's a path for them. And I think we've seen that happen in some of our firms.

Annie Schwab: We definitely [00:22:30] do. And even, you know, we get questions all the time about who should I be looking for? How can I find these hires? You know, I need someone with this amount of education, this amount of experience, the willingness and the drive and and all of the above and all of that. An E fits all of that. And so, you know, forcing yourself, you know, to go out for CPA or to look specifically for CPA, you're really limiting yourself and your resources in a time when we just can't we you know, it's hard to find [00:23:00] quality employees now, um, especially in that industry. So, yeah, there's been a significant decline of of CPAs and even in college students, you know, coming out, choosing finance over accounting or choosing marketing over, you know, accounting, accounting doesn't really sound so fun, I suppose. Um, maybe maybe it's that we get a bad rap for being, you know, a bunch of nerdy accountants, but but, you know, it is it is a great career path. And if you can make [00:23:30] that more achievable, um, less expensive than I think. We've really got something there.

Roger Harris: Yeah. Megan, we've talked a lot about different, you know, that it comes down to the person to be who you are. I know something that's big at Nia. It's big at Padgett. Is this desire to regulate tax return preparers because they're not all equal. You know that's okay if the upper end if they're all good. But unfortunately at the bottom end when [00:24:00] they're all bad. Talk about why it's important to Na and some of the things that you guys, because I know you guys have been very active in that. And we got close a couple of times, but we still haven't been able to to get over the line.

Megan Killian: Yeah, there definitely have been some close ones, but it's still high on your priority list. Um, from an advocacy standpoint, I mean, not a lot of people know, like, anyone can be paid to prepare a tax return, right? I've talked to legislators that weren't fully aware of that, [00:24:30] which is a little concerning, but you know, that it's led to like a lack of oversight. And there's so many there are bad actors out there and unscrupulous, um, preparers. And and it's it's it's a big problem, especially when more and more people are seeking assistance in something that's really important. And you think about when you, you go to the doctor and there's that, you know, confidentiality and you just trust that they know what they're doing. And you [00:25:00] know, you want the same thing with your taxes and your money. Like, this is, you know, this is just important to make sure that you're using someone that's qualified to assist you. Um, you know, the Gao has done a couple studies and found that, um, you know, unlicensed preparers commit more errors than any other tax preparers. I'm sure that's not a surprise, but there's actual data that supports that. Yeah. So, you know, we are advocating that, you know, any paid tax return preparers should, [00:25:30] you know, obviously they have to have their pizza, but they should at least be, uh, have to pass some basic exam, um, and fulfill continuing education requirements and complete a background check, you know, just some basic minimum basic. Yeah, sure.

Annie Schwab: Not too much to ask.

Megan Killian: Yeah. We're just protecting taxpayers just like all the other, you know, consumer protection out there. It's very similar, um, in that we want to make sure that, you know, you're hiring someone that that knows what they're doing [00:26:00] and is, is trustworthy. So, um.

Annie Schwab: So they're sharing very private, very, you know, data that you don't want to get out. I mean, identity theft is crazy. I mean, I mean, poor irk Roger, I gotta say irk at least once on this podcast, right? Yeah, but that's right.

Roger Harris: We haven't made one without it.

Annie Schwab: But, you know, the criminals are getting smarter and smarter. And, um, you certainly want to make sure when you're sharing your, your financial data, your Social Security number, your, you know, all of this very [00:26:30] private information that you can trust the person that you're sharing it with. Um, yeah.

Roger Harris: You mentioned legislatures probably don't know that people aren't. I mean, a lot of customers that go in to get their taxes prepared, assume that the. Person they're talking to has to have done something to be qualified to do it. Yeah. Other than by a computer, I mean literally if you've got enough money to. Oh, you don't guess you don't have to buy a computer. But it'd be better if you did. Yeah. I mean, you could just pop up, and.

Megan Killian: That really should be.

Annie Schwab: That. Mike.

Roger Harris: Yeah, [00:27:00] that should be a sign. But, you know, but I think I think clients think that everybody that, you know, that we have some, uh, required education to take or some required license to have. And the reality is you don't. Now you do in some states, I mean, I don't want to throw a blanket over the whole country. Some states regulate it. And it's frustrating because I know we've hit Padgett. We've worked hard on it. We feel just like Nike does that, you know, in fact, I'm going to I'm not going to use the name because I'm [00:27:30] afraid I'll say the wrong person. But I happen to be at a hearing many, many years ago when one of India's members was testifying and said something that has kind of become the buzzword for everybody that's in favor of regulating return preparers, is that the person who cuts your hair has to have a license, but the person who prepares your taxes doesn't. And most people would not believe that to be true. But it is. Right. Yeah.

Megan Killian: And the and everything is so complex [00:28:00] too. I mean, and just getting more complicated. And you mentioned IRC, I mean think about that alone, you know, has created such so much fraud and issues. And I won't be surprised if there's a lot of unlicensed preparers that will be kind of linked back to, to that as well. When, when, when that data is, is studied.

Annie Schwab: Right.

Roger Harris: Oh yeah. Yeah. Because the one thing that I have said for years is the tax system suffers equally between ignorance and intent. [00:28:30] And so having people who don't know the rules, breaking them is no better than people knowingly breaking them. And yet we somehow ignore the fact that education is an important and yet the cost of the tax system, if they do things improperly, is huge. So we're in we're in board with you, Meg. We're going to keep fighting until this finally gets done. Like I said, we've gotten close, but we're not there yet. But it's hard to argue against it, except some people are just [00:29:00] against regulations in general and think that we need to be in more unregulated society. And I generally agree with that. But sometimes there's just certain things that you need to make sure the person you're dealing with is qualified.

Megan Killian: Right. Well, we are in motion to get legislation presented soon. Fantastic. Yeah. Um, uh, Representative Jimmy Panetta from California has, you know, has agreed to sponsor legislation. Um, we're just now working working on getting a co-sponsor [00:29:30] whenever we can get some get something going with Congress, whenever that's going to be. Um, we will, you know, we'll we'll be ready. So, um, so things are in motion and, you know, hopefully this time around will be more successful. I think that there's a lot more data and a lot more, um, circumstances that are bringing this to a critical point where there might be a bit more support, less, maybe [00:30:00] less concern about overregulation and more concern about protecting taxpayers. Um, because that's, you know, that's certainly a big a big issue for the IRS as well.

Roger Harris: Yeah, well, I will say this. Uh, we go on the hill a good bit at Paget, and the two groups that you will always know have been there, uh, is AICPA and NRA. I'm not saying other groups aren't there, but I will say those are the two groups that are there on a consistent basis. And I think while there may be slight [00:30:30] differences in what regulation means to AICPA, then Nia, then NSA, then Natpe and STP, all of us agree on the concept that yes, we're all.

Megan Killian: Working towards the same goals.

Megan Killian: Here.

Roger Harris: Yeah, well, and it's the right goal.

Annie Schwab: Let's hope the new year brings us some progress and some, you know, baby steps, you know.

Roger Harris: Getting anything through Congress.

Annie Schwab: I know.

Speaker5: Challenging. Yes it is. Yeah it is.

Roger Harris: So you [00:31:00] know we'll see. So I think it's like a lot of things there's probably more people supporting it than not in Capitol, um, Congress and Senate. But that doesn't mean it's going to pass or ever get a vote. But we're going to keep trying.

Speaker5: Right.

Megan Killian: And I know you're right there with us, Roger.

Roger Harris: We we're going to be there trying to get it done before we go. Megan, if people want to learn more about Nia, get in touch with Nia. What's the best way for someone who's listening to this that wants to learn more? [00:31:30] Uh, to reach out to Nia.

Megan Killian: So our website is Nia. Org. Um, and you can go on the website. You can find my contact information on there. You can find contact information for our board and our president. Uh, more than happy to talk to anyone who would like to learn more about the organization. Learn more about the enrolled agent credential. Um, I do want to give just a quick plug to our education foundation as well. We do offer scholarships for individuals who are looking to take [00:32:00] the E exam. We offer C prep, uh, the special enrollment exam preparation course, scholarships, as well as scholarships to help cover the costs of taking the exam. Um, it costs just over $600 now to take the exam. Um, which, you know, it's not a ton, but it's it's a lot for someone just starting out in their career. Yeah, right. Yeah. So we, uh, we we have two application windows for scholarships in the year. We just closed our fall winter window, [00:32:30] and we'll be opening up the next one right after busy season in April.

Speaker5: Good to know.

Roger Harris: So you help them get in, then you help them after their.

Megan Killian: Exactly. Lots of education opportunities with Naia. We have a federal tax updates coming up. Um, we have our congressional fly in in May, which is a lot of fun and really great opportunity to advocate and get involved in. You know, one of the key things that we do as an organization.

Roger Harris: And once you join you have a pack. And so you can recruit.

Speaker5: To that as well. That's [00:33:00] right. You have a pack.

Megan Killian: We're really close to our fundraising goal for 2023.

Annie Schwab: Oh, wonderful.

Megan Killian: With just a few 1111 days.

Annie Schwab: I was about to say not much time, but.

Megan Killian: We're really.

Speaker5: So if you're listening, yes.

Roger Harris: If you're listening in a member and you haven't contributed yet.

Speaker5: Now you still.

Roger Harris: Have time to.

Speaker5: Contribute to that.

Megan Killian: Goal. I feel like I'm on public radio here.

Speaker5: Well, yeah, well take advantage.

Roger Harris: Make the final pitch.

Speaker5: Yeah, yeah.

Roger Harris: Any any final words?

Speaker5: No. This has.

Annie Schwab: Been great. Megan, [00:33:30] it is so fantastic to finally meet you. See you. Um, and it's been a pleasure. Thank you for joining us today. I know our audience is probably enjoying our podcast here. So like us and join us and follow us and tell your friends and all of the above. Um.

Speaker5: Yeah, we'll be back. And, Meg, thank.

Roger Harris: You for joining. I'll see you probably next time I'll be in DC. We run into each other at either IRS meetings or we'll see at the IRS forums this summer. And, uh, really appreciate you taking time [00:34:00] and joining us today.

Megan Killian: Thank you. Thank you both. It was great conversation. Thanks for having me. I appreciate the opportunity.

Roger Harris: Well, thank you very much. Thank you for everybody that listened today to our podcast. As Annie said, if you have friends that aren't aware of them, tell them about it and join us again on a future federal tax Updates podcast. Thanks everybody.