Build to Enough | From DIY to Pro: When to Level Up Your Brand

Keila and guest Danielle Johnson, founder of House of MKTG, dive into the world of branding for small businesses. They discuss the signs that indicate it's time to move beyond DIY branding, the unexpected drawbacks of DIY approaches, and the benefits of working with a professional. Danielle shares insights on finding the right branding partner and offers valuable tips for businesses at various stages of growth.

• (00:00) - Welcome to Build to Enough
• (01:16) - Meet Danielle Johnson
• (01:51) - Why Focus on Small Businesses?
• (04:11) - The Importance of Branding for Small Businesses
• (04:59) - When to Stop DIY and Seek Professional Help
• (07:42) - Drawbacks of DIY'ing Your Marketing
• (09:27) - Benefits of Hiring a Branding Expert
• (12:12) - The Stage In Your Business To Invest in Expert
• (13:21) - What You Saw With Little Fish
• (16:05) - Finding the Right Branding Partner
• (19:37) - Thanks and Contact Information

Connect with Danielle!
House of MKTG - https://houseofmktg.com
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/757danielle

Connect with Keila!
LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/keilahilltrawick
Website - www.krht.co

Twitter - x.com/littlefishcpa

More About Little Fish Accounting

Learn more about Little Fish’s suite of services at www.littlefishaccounting.com.

Follow Little Fish Accounting at instagram.com/littlefishaccounting

Creators & Guests

Host

Keila Hill-Trawick, CPA, MBA

Helping entrepreneurs create and maintain the business they want | Building to Enough | LinkedIn Top Voice | Intuit Partner Council | Accounting Firm Owner

Guest

Danielle Johnson

Websites, Branding, & Content 💫 CEO of House of MKTG

What is Build to Enough ?

Little Fish Accounting presents Build To Enough. The pursuit of endless growth and scaling can leave entrepreneurs feeling burned out and unfulfilled. This podcast explores how to build sustainable, purpose-driven businesses that align with your lifestyle and values, rather than defined by rapid expansion alone. On this show, we’ll reframe definitions of success, provide strategies for structuring companies around desired lifestyles, and share stories of entrepreneurs finding deeper fulfillment by focusing on “enough.” Join us as we discuss moving off the hamster wheel and building businesses with balance and meaning.

There may be errors in spelling, grammar, and accuracy in this machine-generated transcript.

Keila Hill-Trawick: Hello. You're listening to Build to Enough, a podcast for entrepreneurs who want to scale at their own pace. I'm your host, Kaela Traywick, and I'll be your chief storyteller and cheerleader in a world that glorifies endless expansion, we're tuning out the noise and discussing the beauty of enough. Each episode will dive into inspiring stories, practical insights, and strategies to cultivate sustainable success on your [00:00:30] own terms. So whether you're a solopreneur, small business owner, or aspiring entrepreneur, get ready for a refreshing take on the entrepreneurial journey. This is build to enough. Hello and welcome back to Build to Enough. So on our last episode, we talked about why branding is even important for firm owners, especially when you have a small team or small headcount. And I thought that what would be really cool is to bring somebody in who could speak from the technical side of branding [00:01:00] at Little Fish. We'll talk about this during this episode. I started our branding, which was like, fine, but then it needed to be elevated, which is when we brought Danielle in. And so she is a website designer who has been doing a lot of the website and branding stuff behind the scenes for Little Fish. And so welcome, Danielle, to the podcast.

Danielle Johnson: Thank you Kayla, I'm so excited to be here. So yeah, my name is Danielle Johnson. I'm the founder and CEO of House of marketing, which is a human first marketing agency that works with all types of businesses. [00:01:30] So whether you're just starting out or you're an established seven figure brand, we're here to help you develop growth driven websites, media brands, all types of things. So like social media management, photo video, all of the above. Um, so yeah, I met Kayla a few years ago when we started working together, and I'm really excited to just share some of the things that I've learned along the way and some things we've learned together. So yeah, yeah.

Keila Hill-Trawick: I would love to start with like a little background of like, why small businesses? Obviously there's all kinds of companies that you could be working with. [00:02:00] There's all kinds of areas that you could be covering, and you all cover a variety of industries. What made you specifically want to look at a lot of small businesses as kind of your target market?

Danielle Johnson: Right. So being a small business ourselves, we understand a lot of the things that they go through. And so working one on one with other founders or other people that are directly on their team was really important to us. So a big part of what we like to do with our branding is really understand the personality of the team, because when people are working with small businesses, sometimes it's not even the product [00:02:30] or the service that really stands out, but it's the people. And so I really like to work one on one with those teams. It's also a lot easier to get closer to their vision. They care much more about the foundations of their business, so it's much easier to pull from when designing different assets. When people come work with us like they're making a really big investment into their brand. And so we want to make sure that it captures a lot of their essence and their values, but also grows with them. So we need to have really close insight into their vision, which is really important. So working with small businesses [00:03:00] allows us to get closer to those teams and really pull from that experience, and it's just been incredible for us. A big thing for me, like personally, just being able to meet all these founders and then be supported by this large community of people who really care about what they do and they care about the people they work with, and they're doing incredible, innovative things. It's just really inspiring to be just a part of that community. So that's where we really like to to connect with people.

Keila Hill-Trawick: I love that, and I mean, at Little Fish, we always say that like we are our own target [00:03:30] client, which is a lot like what you do. The fact that you know intimately, not just the website side, but like or the social media side or any of those things, it's like we also have to do this for our company. So when you work with small businesses, you have a kind of direct line of communication of like, yeah, I understand this because I'm not just doing this for you. I have to do this for our company too.

Danielle Johnson: Exactly. And a lot of the small businesses that we work with are service providers, so they know exactly what it's like on the back end of things, on how to communicate their feedback and how to get their point across, and how [00:04:00] to get their deadlines met and all these different things. And so it's really nice also working with people who understand what it's like, um, because there's just like this mutual respect and understanding for what we're trying to accomplish together.

Keila Hill-Trawick: So when Little Fish started, I mentioned this earlier, I DIY everything, and while I feel like I am like better than most accountants at branding, I am not excellent at it. And, um, Shayla made this clear very early on of like, yeah, we can do this for now. And we use that branding for a couple of years. And then we [00:04:30] engaged another firm before we found House of marketing to like update our logo, update our presence. But our website really needed that, you know, elevation that we talked about. We said that it was time for little fish to grow up, and she needed a little bit more attention the more that I could do. But we know that when small businesses start, DIY tends to be the first line of defense. You think that it's free? Uh, you know, spoiler alert it is not free. You are spending your time, and you're probably spending a lot of money trying to learn how to do it. But [00:05:00] what are some early signs for small businesses to know that, like, it is time for you to stop dying and start looking at an expert to take this off your plate?

Danielle Johnson: All right. That's a great point. So there's a few things that could come up for businesses when they're trying to figure out, like, am I ready to move on from this DIY life? And a big one of that is just feeling overwhelmed, like you're doing all the things and sometimes you don't have the time, the energy, the skill to do those things. And when it's really holding you back in your business, that's when it's time to find a partner who can actually help you take your [00:05:30] ideas and your vision, but then translate it in a much easier way. So that's one thing that could come up. Another thing is when firms are growing, there's new services, new products, new offerings that they're going to be trying to target to their audience. And when they see some of that friction within the understanding, like between their audience, like we have this thing that's great and we want people to understand, like why it will help their business, but how do we translate that? That could also be a time to get some help, because brand messaging is also a part of what your business looks like. And so that [00:06:00] could be another factor if your new services and offerings aren't fitting into the mold that you've created, it's not. Growing with your business. Partnership could be really beneficial in taking you to that next level.

Keila Hill-Trawick: So one of the things that you mentioned is that their current brand might be holding them back. They might be like thinking that they're doing all the things that they're supposed to, but they're not actually achieving what they expected to. What triggers or areas do you see that kind of indicate to you that their brand isn't really pushing them as far as they would have expected?

Danielle Johnson: A big part of that is [00:06:30] kind of like the premium part of their brand. So when they've been in their business for so long and they've really refined their systems and their offerings, and they really understand how to solve these problems for their clients, they're providing a premium service at a premium price. A lot of the times. But when their brand doesn't reflect that, that first interaction, that first perception to their audience is like, wait a second, why would I pay you this much money to do this task. When this person looks same as you and they charge half or maybe a quarter of the price. A big part of that is the experience [00:07:00] that you're trying to convey to your audience. And so that's a part of it that some people don't think about is like, sure, you're doing all these great things, but if they don't see that on their first look on like social media or your website, or when they're searching for you, like you're not going to stand out in that market and there is a competitive market out there. So branding is a big, big, big part of that.

Keila Hill-Trawick: Okay. And then we also started off with like DIY right. And I already said it's not free. You think that it's free because you're not actually outlaying money directly to [00:07:30] an expert, but it is costing you something. It is costing you money and all the courses that you're trying to take to teach yourself how to do it. It's costing you time in the three times as long as it would take me to do some things as it would to take you. What are some other potential drawbacks that you see from companies who are potentially ready to move beyond DIY, but are not making the choice to invest.

Danielle Johnson: So some drawbacks that companies can experience when they're dying their brand that they may not think of is the legal side of things. So say that you're using platforms like Canva or Logo [00:08:00] Maker. You don't actually own that intellectual property. The rights are non-exclusive, so you can't actually trademark anything. So as your company grows, you can't protect your business. Somebody could copy exactly what you've done and there's nothing you can do about it. So when you're taking the DIY route, ownership of your intellectual property is something that you may not think about, but can become really important as you grow. Now, I'm a big proponent for templates for businesses that are starting out because it helps you build that consistency. It is it is like a quick, easy DIY, but when you're thinking about the growth long term, [00:08:30] it may not be the best solution. So that is a big drawback to DIY ING. Your brand is just understanding the legality behind design work and how that works. Copyrights, trademarks, things like that. It can get confusing. Um, but yeah, that's something that is important to think about, especially as you're growing.

Keila Hill-Trawick: I hadn't even thought about that. Like we think about so much legal stuff when we're running small businesses that I don't know that branding is one of those pieces that I would have considered is potentially hurting me if I do it myself versus engaging [00:09:00] somebody who's an expert in the industry.

Danielle Johnson: Right. And when firms are looking for partners in the design world, it is important to ask those kinds of questions upfront, like, what licenses do I get from the work that you do? Do you transfer the copyright ownership? Things like that, just so that you can understand, like what investment you're actually making in your business? Because at the end of the day, it is your investment and you want to know what you have ownership over. So it's a big one to think about but not often is talked about. Yeah.

Keila Hill-Trawick: Yeah. And that's a good segue to my next question. So when we're thinking about people who are currently diying [00:09:30] and are ready to engage an expert, what are some of the key benefits that somebody can expect as they're making that transition to actually getting help?

Danielle Johnson: Yeah, just having a partner there to work with you and to take all the different things that are in your mind and then solve all those problems and then put it in like this really pretty package. It's a really big benefit. So working with somebody who can not only listen to what you're telling them, but to filter it back. A big part of our process is really collaborating with our clients. So when we work with little [00:10:00] fish, like, you have a lot of these ideas, but you're also open to feedback and refinement, which is really important in that process because you're getting eyes outside of the business. A lot of the times when businesses are diying things, there's so much in it that they're not really looking at the long term vision of what they're doing. And so having that collaboration is really important.

Keila Hill-Trawick: I will say like testimonial here. One of the things that I was so impressed about how some marketing from the beginning was that you heard my voice and was able to translate it. I feel like it has [00:10:30] been a problem with prior people that we've worked with, or even agencies that we were interested in, or I was like, but I don't know if you'll sound like me, and I don't know if like, the thing that I'm telling you will actually get get translated into a visual that looks like the brand that I'm trying to create. And I we were actually really impressed that like the first try, I was like, oh no, this is it. Like, we might have to make some small tweaks to like, I would like this to be rounder or I would like this, [00:11:00] you know, blue to be a little bit lighter or whatever the thing is. But overall, to your point about that collaborative process, it was just really cool to be in a space of like, I am really emotionally attached to, like this thing that I made, and I want you to make it better, but like, still be me. Um, you all did an excellent job of, like, making that a priority in a way that I could see from the deliverable.

Danielle Johnson: Thank you. Yeah, a big part of that is also being really clear on who you're targeting. So you may be confused with, like, I don't know what shade [00:11:30] of blue. Like I don't know what font I want. And that's where we can come in and make these suggestions. But a big part that is helpful working with a business is knowing who your audience is, knowing what your core values are, knowing what kind of personality you want your brand to represent. And so that was a big part of our collaboration as well, just having that insight.

Keila Hill-Trawick: Yeah. One of the things I mentioned this earlier, that little fish was going through at the time is that we were coming to a new pivot in the business. We were, like you mentioned, offering new services. We were figuring out and narrowing down [00:12:00] who our target client was going to be. I also wanted to make sure that we were communicating from the beginning, like, what does it look like to work with us, what is included in our services in a way that's not just one laundry list of things? So we had a very specific kind of point in the business that we were that said, hey, I think that it's time for us to do something different. Is there a particular stage in a business's lifecycle where you're like, it is time for you to invest whatever you were doing before you have hit X point? [00:12:30] And we think that it's time for you to get an expert on staff.

Danielle Johnson: So for a lot of small businesses, you can kind of rebrand at any point you're at for different reasons. A big one that we see with the clients that we work with is that limitation on we have these new offerings that are not translating to our audience. We're getting unqualified leads. These people don't actually understand what we offer, what we what we actually provide outside of just the list of things that we can do, but that experience that they're they're getting. And so that's a big sign when you're getting a lot of unqualified leads, that means your message [00:13:00] is not resonating with them. And that's a big part of your brand. And so when we're thinking about all the different types of your all the different types of components to your brand, messaging tends to get left out because it's not the pretty one. We're thinking like, oh, we want the logo, we want the colors, the pictures, all these different things. But when they're actually on your site and they're reading through what you do, that's how you really connect with them.

Keila Hill-Trawick: So you know where little fish was when we started, what we had and what we were trying to get to take us back. So we come to you and we're like, [00:13:30] hey, we need a new website. And you have obviously the combination of me being like, uh, I would like all these things. And then you have our connections manager who is Interpreting to say what this should look like design wise or what we're thinking about. What were you thinking when we came to you, and how were you? How did you think about kind of taking us through from where we are to where we ultimately want it to be?

Danielle Johnson: Yeah. So funny thing is that I actually knew about Little [00:14:00] fish before you came to me, which is not really common for the clients that I've worked with. Little fish was one of the first accounts that I followed on Instagram when I started my business, and it wasn't even because I was looking for accounting advice, or I was looking for an accounting firm to hire. But because I saw the personality behind the brand, like the people, you guys seem so fun and just like the culture of your company was really, really inspiring. And so I had followed you, I think, for maybe like a year or two before we even connected. So when I got a message from Little Fish, I was like, how did they even know who I am? Like, what is happening? [00:14:30] Um, so I had already had this perception of the people behind the business. And so when we started working together, I was really excited to capture that within your website. Another thing that was really helpful, working with little fish, is that you all were really direct in your feedback, and so you had very specific ideas in some areas, but maybe more creative freedom in others.

Danielle Johnson: And so that was a really fun process to work with. Looking back on it, um, in terms of the branding, it was definitely DIY, I'm not gonna [00:15:00] lie. But it wasn't that bad. And I could see that you had a vision for where you wanted to take it. And like you said, it was like our business is growing up and we need to elevate this brand. And so it was really fun to see not only the transition over social media for so many years, but then to actually talk to you about your perspective of what it was like building your business over the years and what your goals were and what you were trying to attain and where you wanted to take it. And then solving those problems with you was a really incredible experience. And now I think it's been a couple of years since we started working [00:15:30] together now, and there has been so much growth that I didn't even expect to happen. But it's been such an incredible journey working with you all and just seeing how much you care about the people that you work with and how much you invest back into your own business.

Keila Hill-Trawick: Yeah, that's really cool. We were very lucky to get like a soulmate, a business soulmate, fit at the beginning, to be able to say, hey, not only can you update our website, but we want to keep working with you. Like as these new changes come as more stuff ends up being [00:16:00] changed or updated in our business, we really want to be able to work with you to make those changes. So when somebody is looking for a branding agency or consultant, they're like, okay, you got me. I should not be dying anymore. I'm ready to hire. What factors should they be considering in order to determine whether or not that partner that they're looking for is the right fit for them?

Danielle Johnson: So like you mentioned, not only do we we started with the website for our our initial project, but then we continued to work on other graphic design branding projects together. [00:16:30] And so a big thing that you have to think about when you're working with a partner or finding an agency to connect with, or even just a graphic designer that you could connect with, is.

Danielle Johnson: What is.Their service capability? What do they provide? What is their limitation? What types of services do they actually offer? So I need a brand, but I also need a website. And I also need copywriting. And I also need social media graphics. And I also need photography and videography. Like what do I do? Like um, finding all those puzzle pieces that can mix and then also finding creatives that can [00:17:00] work well together can be difficult. So you have to decide, like, do you need all of the things? Or do you really just need a website and a brand and everything else you can take care of on your own, because maybe you can. So thinking about those kinds of limitations and finding a company that can provide that for you so that you can think about your long term strategy rather than just like in the moment. Um, another thing is just finding a professional that you connect with, like if you're on a discovery call and they do not seem interested in what you have to say, like, maybe they're not the professional for you. Um, [00:17:30] but maybe if you want a hands off approach and they seem like really well organized, maybe that's the person for you.

Danielle Johnson: So different things, um, for different people, just depending on, like, what you're looking for. One of the discovery calls that I was in, a client asked me what would the perfect client look like for you if we were to work together? And I thought, oh, that is very interesting because I hadn't thought about, like, specifics that I could share. Um, but I think that's a really interesting question to ask because it shows what their expectations are of you. When you're hiring a professional, you're thinking about [00:18:00] what are they going to deliver, what's the cost, what's the timeline, all these different things. But knowing what their expectations of you are really important to know. If you can also deliver, if they're expecting you to have a 24 hour response time, like can you realistically provide that while you're running your company? Things like that. So just getting into the details of what their expectations could be. Um, and then yeah, just asking like what they're, what they're offering and deliverables could look like.

Keila Hill-Trawick: So this has been excellent. You know, that we love all the work that you do for us and are always [00:18:30] happy to share you with our community. Is there anything that I didn't cover that you would like for listeners to know about you or the firm or the services that you offer.

Danielle Johnson: Yeah. So a big thing is that it doesn't matter how much money you make or how long you've been in business, there could always be a solution for the problems that you're facing. And so something that I've been really working on over the last few years is building out services that could target different audiences. So not only do we have like the full on custom branding, but we also have a refresh [00:19:00] package. So if you have a brand that you're not hating, but you know that it needs a little bit of pizzazz, we have a refresh package for that. And so that's also an option. Same thing for websites like if you have an existing website and you just need a little bit of a refresh, like you can always reach out and we can talk about those kinds of opportunities. A big thing is maximizing your resources. So sometimes you don't need the big package. Sometimes what you have is a good starting place and we can work from that. So just keeping in mind it doesn't have to be as big and scary as it might seem. Sometimes it's worth just hopping on a call [00:19:30] and filling out that inquiry form to make sure that your actual needs are being targeted by the packages that you're actually investing in.

Keila Hill-Trawick: Well, thank you very much for joining us today. Before we leave. Tell the people where they can find you.

Danielle Johnson: Yeah. So on our website house of Mktg. Com also on Instagram. House of Mktg. Um, yeah, you can find us there. Our website has a portfolio on there, so you can check out all the pretty things that we've done for our clients. Um, and. Yeah.

Keila Hill-Trawick: All right. Well, we'll make sure that those links are in [00:20:00] the show notes. Thanks for joining us this week and we will see you all next time. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Build to Enough. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe, rate and share the love with your fellow entrepreneur friends, and make sure to sign up for the Build to Enough newsletter. The link is in the show notes. Stay tuned for more episodes as we continue to redefine success one intentional step at a time.