Crazy Hockey Dads Podcast

Scott and James sit down with Andries de Villiers, CEO of Titan Battlegear, for a blunt breakdown of what cut protection in hockey really means and why a lot of gear parents trust may create a false sense of security.

After a tragic local on-ice incident, Andries dove deep into testing standards and discovered that many products marketed as protective weren’t stopping skate blades at meaningful levels. He explains the ANSI A1–A9 scale, why he calls A6 the “Mendoza line” for real protection, and why safety comes down to two things: cut resistance and coverage.

The conversation also tackles early neck-guard mandates that were “legal but not effective,” why Velcro designs can fail (and frustrate players), and why lower-body cut protection (especially around the femoral area) is the next major gap families aren’t thinking about.

In this episode:
  • What the A1–A9 cut-resistance scale actually means
  • Why A6 matters
  • “Protection” vs. real protection
  • The problem with poor coverage and bad fit
  • Why neck guards are only part of the conversation
If you assume a neck guard is a neck guard, this episode will change how you look at your kid’s gear.

Partners:
  • https://hockeytraining.com/
  • https://www.titanbattlegear.com/crazyhockeydads
  • https://howieshockeytape.com/
  • https://www.athleticperformanceinsight.com/
Socials:
  • TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@crazy.hockey.dads
  • X: https://x.com/Crazyhockeydads
  • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/crazyhockeydadspodcast/
  • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61576627751551

What is Crazy Hockey Dads Podcast?

A relatable and honest podcast about the highs and lows of being a youth hockey parent. Join us as we share real stories, struggles, and wins from the rink, offering insights and support for parents navigating the world of youth hockey.

Jamie:

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Crazy Hockey Dads Podcast, the unfiltered podcast for hockey parents. No politics, no sugarcoating, just real talk for hockey parents in the trenches.

Scott:

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Episode 54. 54. And we have a little bit of a new setup.

Scott:

Cinco Cuatro.

Jamie:

A little bit of a new setup, I suppose.

Scott:

Yeah, it's a different camera

Jamie:

Yes, with a new it's different. This boom is over my left shoulder which is very comfortable.

Scott:

Yeah, doesn't look ideal. It's not. No, it's less

Jamie:

But than it's okay. We'll figure it out. We need to buy, we bought another camera, so hopefully this is coming in in four ks quality HD.

Scott:

I don't know.

Jamie:

Me neither.

Scott:

Better. For the money we paid for the camera. Well, whatever.

Jamie:

Yeah. So hopefully, so again, but we are upgrading. Wouldn't you say?

Scott:

Yeah, absolutely.

Jamie:

1% every day.

Scott:

1% every day.

Jamie:

1% every single day. We have a show for you to do.

Scott:

Oh boy. Oh boy.

Jamie:

Oh boy is right. Andries Villiers from Titan Battlegear.

Scott:

Yeah, it's wild, know. It's since

Jamie:

It is, isn't it?

Scott:

Well, yeah, it's so wild. It is. But I was Oh, thinking that

Jamie:

it's the same thing as

Scott:

We were Stop. You're so annoying.

Jamie:

Sorry. I interrupted you. Well, you do. Says who? Oh, I don't know.

Jamie:

Says who? You mean the people that write us comments, say, Jamie, stop talking to Scott? Yes. Fuck off. So I'm trying to not talk over you.

Jamie:

So go ahead.

Scott:

I'm afraid. Don't want you to

Jamie:

Guys, no, no, no. I'm not going to. God. You just did. It's my ADHD.

Jamie:

I can't help it. Fire away.

Scott:

That's what you call it.

Jamie:

God, God. Fire away. Go.

Scott:

Go. You know what? There is God damn it. Okay. So after we did this interview I'm not talking.

Scott:

I'm not talking now. I'm not talking.

Jamie:

You know where that's from? Of course I don't. Bro, stop fucking Caddyshack. Jesus Christ.

Scott:

Okay.

Jamie:

Dude, the parents that come up to me, they're like, wow, Scott really has no

Scott:

Movie game?

Jamie:

You have zero movie game.

Scott:

You know what's funny though? They're like, does he look past

Jamie:

the culture? Like, apparently not.

Scott:

Let me ask you this. Did the parents did the parents that you talked to, did they have a movie game? Yes. Oh, do? They do.

Jamie:

Their movie

Scott:

game is strong. Oh, yeah? You sure about that?

Jamie:

Super strong. As a matter of fact, these exact same parents Yeah. They came up to me

Scott:

Oh, Did they? When I

Jamie:

walked in the rink, and they're like they're like 47, Jamie? And I'm like, 47. I'm like, why do I know 47? And they start giggling, I'm like, what's so funny? And they're like, 47, the time that Scott cut Mike Rizzioni's interview off.

Jamie:

I'm like, oh, my God. Did Mike Yes, he did.

Scott:

How'd I cut it off?

Jamie:

You're like, thanks Mike, thanks for coming, this was fun, we don't, we want to respect all your time, thanks so much for coming. Jamie didn't do all the hard work of, of, of, getting, of getting him here, no no worries, no worries,

Scott:

Scott says, Scott says, you're me that people actually came up Yeah, to you and said 100%. I don't believe it.

Jamie:

I swear on my children. Swear on my children. Don't worry, Jamie went through all the hard work to get Mike Ruzione and after like forty seven minutes, Scott's like, Yeah, Mike, this was fun. I know we haven't gotten a gold medal game, but Jamie, this was fun. Guys, so much.

Jamie:

Thanks for coming and we're gonna wrap it up here. So Mike, thanks and we'll see you later.

Scott:

So how about to put it into context, Mike, when we when you told me

Andries:

100%,

Scott:

you told me

Jamie:

100%

Scott:

that the interview was going to

Jamie:

be five minutes. No, no, no,

Scott:

no, You weren't even sure how long the interview was going to be. You said it's going to be short. Mike wanted a shorter. He wanted a shorter interview. Then he got on the call He said, I don't know.

Scott:

I could probably give you, like, thirty, maybe forty five minutes. He said something along those lines.

Jamie:

Yes. Did.

Scott:

Right? And then this is someone who would be great to have on the podcast And I don't think in the middle of the interview I mean, maybe he would, but like say, alright guys, I gotta go now. Like, maybe he would say that and and He's a nice guy. Don't think fine if he did. Yeah.

Scott:

Think Like, I wouldn't be insulted by that.

Jamie:

Listen, you were being very, very respectful at this Very,

Scott:

very. Was just being respectful

Jamie:

the question? What? You seem very, very fired up right now.

Scott:

Well, you you

Jamie:

You seem a little nervous, like, a little, like, uncomfortable. You shouldn't be. I'm just fucking breaking your balls.

Scott:

Well, how do I seem nervous?

Jamie:

I don't know. You just seem very defensive.

Scott:

I feel defensive because Okay.

Jamie:

Listen. You only cut off our biggest guest short.

Scott:

It's okay. You're just you're just leaning

Jamie:

into this whole fucking thing. Good. Only cut off our biggest guest. Forty five minutes. It's okay.

Jamie:

It happens. Listen.

Andries:

Listen.

Jamie:

Happens.

Scott:

And and if I if that's what it's gonna be if I'm going down I am

Jamie:

totally busting your chops.

Scott:

That's okay. You can bust my chops. Totally breaking your You can bust your chops and bring you and your movie loving fucking friends over here and you guys can fucking spout off movie lines and, you know, hang out and have fun and make fun of me.

Jamie:

Listen, nobody's making you funny. We're we're laughing with you. Oh, yeah. That's really We're laughing with you, not at you.

Scott:

Listen It's fine either way. I don't care.

Jamie:

I know you don't. That's why I'm doing it because it's fun. It's fun to bust balls. Listen, listen, it's we will have Mike on again. And when we have Mike again, we'll be like, hey, like, listen, Mike.

Jamie:

So Scott doesn't stop the interview short. Can we go for like an hour fifteen?

Scott:

Oh my God.

Jamie:

Listen, it was a great interview regardless of how short it was. Wouldn't you agree?

Scott:

I'm still trying to bridge the gap between him saying he had thirty to forty five minutes and after the forty five minute mark, I wrapped it up. I'm trying to understand where that, where there's a problem there.

Jamie:

There is not a problem.

Scott:

That's exactly what I thought.

Jamie:

But we could have gone longer.

Scott:

Sure. We could have. Much longer. But the first time we ever had a guest say they had a hard stop or that they had Well,

Jamie:

you didn't say hard stop. Okay, fine. Hard stop. There was no hard stop.

Scott:

Okay, fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He had a thirty to forty five minute window and it went past forty five minutes and I wrapped it up. You did. You're telling me that like, I'm I'm what again?

Scott:

A shmuck? Yes. Yes. Yes. I will wear the shmuck cap proudly knowing that

Jamie:

Listen, everybody makes mistakes. It's okay. We tell our kids all the time, it happens. It happens. It's okay.

Jamie:

You just gotta own it and move forward. It happens. I I make mistakes all the time.

Scott:

I 100% own it.

Jamie:

I make mistakes all the And

Scott:

we will have to agree to disagree.

Jamie:

Can tell you tell our audience what you said to me the when we both got off with him when you came so Scott and I were like around the corner from each other, like in in the same room, But we record when we do we when we do guests, I'm, like, over on the other side, so our mics don't pick each other up. So what did you tell our audience what you said to me when you came when we got off with him and you came around the corner? What's the first thing you said to me?

Scott:

I honestly don't remember.

Jamie:

You're like, did I just fuck that up?

Scott:

I didn't say that.

Jamie:

Yes, you did.

Scott:

Did I just fuck that up?

Jamie:

A 100%. Did I get off too early? Humanity? That's what you said to me. You go, Humanity?

Jamie:

Like, for what? You're like, for cutting it too short.

Scott:

I don't think I cut it too short. But that- that- in- in- in there lies the problem. I didn't- I didn't- I don't think I cut it too short. It's okay. It was after forty five minutes.

Jamie:

It was.

Scott:

It was so- okay. So what's the what?

Jamie:

It was very it was funny. The parents came up to me and I was I was I was laughing with them. Great. Again, not at your expense, just in general.

Scott:

No, not not at my expense.

Jamie:

They're like, Mike, thanks so much for coming. No, I know it was great. We're in the middle the interview, but thanks so much. Listen, I know you got got stuff to do, but Mike, thanks

Scott:

so much for coming. You what's interesting? So like in any other episode I'm just breaking your chops out. And any any other episode, when we get to like the hour mark or like the hour and seven minute mark or the hour and whatever mark and I wrap it up, you don't bust my balls then.

Jamie:

This is Mike fucking Ruzione.

Scott:

Who also said he had thirty to forty five minutes. He had longer. Oh, okay. And you know what was interesting? We talk to Mike, he he, you know Tell me.

Scott:

The reoccurring theme was like, you know, you don't wanna you don't wanna be an asshole. He did say that. You don't wanna be you don't wanna be an asshole. You wanna be respectful. You wanna be a good teammate.

Scott:

And if you asked me, I think I was being a good teammate because my guy, Mike Ruzione Listen. He said he had to go. So I got his back. And I said, after we kept him past the time he said he was gonna stay, hey, Mike, thanks for coming on. Wanna be respectful of your time.

Scott:

And then what'd say? He had like, he had like five hockey games to go watch and he had an exercise also?

Jamie:

He did jump on the Peloton when we were done with him.

Scott:

Oh, okay. So, don't know. What

Jamie:

His Peloton could have waited fifteen more minutes.

Scott:

Of course it could have. And then if we were in, if I wrapped it up at an hour, then what? I'm not a schmuck?

Jamie:

No, you're still schmuck. Oh, okay. Just because. So then what you're always a schmuck in a good way.

Scott:

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Scott:

Okay.

Jamie:

We need to work on your we definitely need to work on your pop culture though.

Scott:

I don't no. I don't I don't

Jamie:

Mike fucking Ruzione. Mike bleeping Ruzione. Like, Aaron bleeping Boone, Mike bleeping Ruzione. Listen.

Scott:

Can keep your pop culture.

Jamie:

You don't know what the Aaron bleeping Boone is from, do you?

Scott:

No.

Scott:

Continue. Baseball reference.

Jamie:

Do you know who Aaron Boone is?

Scott:

I could care less

Jamie:

about Oh my god. I love you so much. It's your pop culture and your knowledge of, like, stuff only that does not go outside of your sphere.

Scott:

But You know who Aaron Boone is? No. Who's Aaron Boone?

Jamie:

Aaron Bleepin' Boone.

Scott:

You know what?

Jamie:

Mike Bleepin' Boone.

Scott:

Aaron Bleepin' Boone, that didn't help

Jamie:

It didn't?

Scott:

No. When you added the bleep into his name, it didn't make it any, like, me any closer to understanding.

Jamie:

So the Aaron Bleepin Boone.

Scott:

Yeah.

Jamie:

So Aaron Boone is the head is the head manager of New York Yankees. He's a he's a manager

Scott:

So that that's number that's the first reason why I don't care.

Jamie:

Because he's baseball? Yeah. Okay. So Aaron Bleeping Boone was a Yankee third baseman.

Scott:

Did he play with Wally Pop?

Jamie:

No. No. No. He's he's much younger than Wally Pop. Oh, okay.

Jamie:

Yeah. Yeah. So, no. So he he was a third baseman for the Yankees who hit a monster home run against the Red Sox. And and Red Sox fans to this day still say like, I can't like, we got beat by Aaron fucking Boone.

Jamie:

So it's Aaron bleeping Boone.

Scott:

Okay. Great.

Jamie:

I'm just gonna work on your pop culture a bit. Maybe we'll do a segment like, let's teach Scott stuff.

Scott:

Okay.

Jamie:

Why not?

Scott:

Sure. Right? It seems like you, you know, there's one of these, like each episode where you like drop a movie line and you're like, you don't know it, do you? And I'm like, no, don't. And then you tell me what it's from and then you're like, there you go.

Scott:

So you're doing it anyway.

Jamie:

But it's fun. For who? Good point. Or was it fun? All right, let's stop breaking Scott's balls.

Scott:

You can keep breaking up.

Jamie:

No, no, don't want to break your balls. No. Yes, you do.

Scott:

What do you mean?

Jamie:

Well, fun to break balls. I do it out of love.

Scott:

Oh, is that what it's, Adam?

Jamie:

100% it is.

Andries:

Yeah. You're gonna go back.

Jamie:

Listen. No.

Andries:

You're gonna go back to the rink and be like, guys, but on the episode, I really gave it to

Jamie:

fucked him up. So there is a thing that I saw, and it says that really good friends bust the balls of other good friends. If they don't bust your balls, it means they don't like you.

Scott:

Oh, really?

Jamie:

Would you bust somebody's balls you don't like? Probably not.

Scott:

I see the point.

Jamie:

So it all comes from a good place.

Scott:

Oh, well, then carry on, good friend. Carry on.

Jamie:

Anyway, so let's talk about some Olympic hockey.

Scott:

Sure. You want to talk about our sponsors first?

Jamie:

No, let's talk Olympic hockey first.

Scott:

Let's do I'm just

Jamie:

kidding, guys. Howie's hockey? Sure. Crazy ten?

Scott:

Crazy ten.

Jamie:

Crazy ten. Go get your Do you buy them recently?

Scott:

Not recently,

Jamie:

but bought

Scott:

from them earlier in the season.

Jamie:

I know you did. Yeah. The sweatshirts, the gear, the tape, the laces, the wax, Scott's favorite, the candle, the yellow handled scissors.

Scott:

That's it.

Jamie:

Go get all your stuff. They have great stuff. Their tape's awesome. Dominic's got it everywhere around the fucking house. Nancy Nancy uses it to repair everything in the kitchen, in the bathrooms, in the house.

Jamie:

Like, she she literally carries hockey tape in her bag.

Scott:

I you know, auto

Jamie:

Not for hockey sticks, by the way.

Scott:

Oh, right.

Jamie:

Literally for everything else.

Scott:

I I I haven't seen a child go through more fucking tape, retaping. Your child? Yeah. His goddamn

Jamie:

Oh, man who tapes his stick a lot?

Scott:

Dude, he tried every there's like he goes tape on tape on tape. Does he? Different knobs, different, like, fucking lengths. It goes like he he wraps it halfway down. He does a candy cane.

Scott:

Then he's got a really short, like, McDavid style knob. And then, like, I'm gonna every time I see him, he's fucking wasting tape. And I'm like, bro, cut the shit. And he's like, no. No, dad.

Scott:

No.

Jamie:

Now, where did I hear recently that somebody tapes toe to heel?

Scott:

That's definitely a thing. It was on, it might've been on chicklets.

Jamie:

Maybe that's where I heard it.

Scott:

But even when they said that, I feel like I've heard maybe they do it more in Europe, perhaps.

Jamie:

Is that what it is? Is that a European thing?

Scott:

I don't think it's as uncommon as that comment made it seem.

Jamie:

Maybe not.

Scott:

But, Oh, then yeah, speaking of, so I tried going toe to heel because well, because Otto wanted to put, what do they fucking call it? A sock, you know, you tape it like up to the shaft and it doesn't clearly go around there.

Jamie:

You can see it really What? That sounds like created. We're a family show. After we're talking about Aaron fucking Boone, we're a show. No, but you go from toe to the sock was the entire length of the blade and up a little bit, up the neck.

Scott:

So I couldn't get it. Yes. Up the shaft. But I tried starting at the base of the shaft and then, then I started, kept on taping around the thicker part and Oh my God. And the tape didn't go around evenly.

Scott:

It

Jamie:

was too girthy. Is that what you're telling me?

Scott:

Transition was, it got really big, really fast.

Jamie:

What just happened?

Scott:

So I was there unsure of what to do. Understood.

Jamie:

I why you were

Scott:

unsure was of getting to a little bit of a pickle and I then- We're in a pickle, Dick.

Jamie:

Another movie you're not going

Andries:

to know.

Scott:

Yep. There we go. Lay up for Jamie.

Jamie:

Fun with Dick and Jane.

Scott:

Okay, great.

Jamie:

Isn't Jim Carrey Yes. Of Okay. He is. Good for you. Nice buddy.

Jamie:

So keep telling your story about your girthy tape job.

Scott:

Well, so I was clear that taping from the shaft to the toe of the blade wasn't going to work. So then I said, well, I'll try the other way and see if that bears more fruit. And did it? Not exactly. A little better.

Jamie:

Okay.

Scott:

But I still had to like rip the tape and then, I mean, I might be missing something on, like, there's probably some tape guru out there that can like, you know, do this with their eyes closed. But, I had to rip the tape and start the tape again. Otto didn't quite frankly care. And I got frustrated and I said, I'm never doing this again.

Jamie:

Okay. Got it. Yeah. Nice.

Scott:

Yeah.

Jamie:

Did all that from Howie's Hockey, We got that whole way from Howie's Hockey. If

Scott:

you want to experiment with these things, you can just

Jamie:

You can do the same thing.

Scott:

Yeah. You just go to Howie's, get a lot of tape, you know, find your child and they will waste it for you.

Jamie:

Make sure you get the scissors to cut the tape.

Scott:

And then when you're done, you can a few like, you know, stuff, you know, a few twenties and maybe a 50. And then you can also just have them cut it up and throw it in the garbage because that's what they do with the manga.

Jamie:

Just light it on fire. Might as well. Fucking. You know, it's funny you mentioned that your kid does tape his stick a lot.

Scott:

Fucking

Jamie:

like, I've been here when he's taping upstairs in the living room. Just tape, tape away. You know what? I'd rather have him taped than not because I remember the days where Dominic could walk into the locker room and six people would ask him to tape their stick. Would ask who?

Jamie:

Dom. Would ask They take my stick. Really? Yeah. Why?

Jamie:

I guess he could do it at an earlier age for whatever reason. So nobody else could take their stick or maybe they want to. So when he would walk in the locker room before games, like, take my stick. So he would do his stick and then everybody else's whoever came up to him.

Scott:

Sounds like a part time job.

Jamie:

Should have been paid for it.

Scott:

That's what I'm saying. You didn't teach him an entrepreneurial spirit.

Jamie:

Clearly not. He's doing that shit for free.

Scott:

That's stupid.

Jamie:

No, a 100% it is. I'm with you. So that was Howie's hockey, ladies and gentlemen. Wow. That was some fucking promo for Howie's hockey.

Jamie:

Let's go. Holy shit. Who do got next?

Scott:

We got Coach Kevin at hockeytraining.com. And if you got a kid, maybe a fellow beer leaguer who's looking for quicker hands, faster feet, or stronger stride, check out Coach Kevin at hockeytraining.com, and he's got a whole library of off ice training, stick handling videos and lessons, speed strength agility, programming that, you know, certainly translates directly to on ice, you know, explosive strength and power. So, yeah, man. I've got his men's league domination '23. Yep, I've used that.

Scott:

And then we still need to get our kids on his virtual stick handling classes, which is one of the

Jamie:

need to reach out to him.

Scott:

Yeah. The highlights over there. He's running virtual stick handling where you have like a community of kids that are practicing their stick handling away from the rink. Just makes it more engaging, more fun. So if anyone's not familiar with Coach Kevin, go check out hockeytraining.com.

Jamie:

Hockey Training HQ. He's got 126,000 followers, trusted by 2,000 plus players over thirteen years.

Scott:

Yeah, he's a real deal.

Jamie:

Yeah, he is.

Scott:

Yeah. Else we got?

Jamie:

23,000,000 plus views total.

Scott:

That's a lot of views. Yeah, Lots of eyeballs.

Jamie:

You're not kidding.

Scott:

Yeah, is.

Jamie:

He's been doing this for a while. No, he's great. You guys should go check him out. You'll like his stuff. Yeah.

Jamie:

Then we have Titan Battlegear. Right?

Scott:

We sure do.

Jamie:

Titan Battlegear. It's in the link of all of our episodes, titanbattlegear.com/crazyhockeydads. Use the code CrazyDads10 for 10% off your Titan Battlegear. And speaking of Titan Battlegear, that's who we have on today.

Scott:

We do. And before we get Good. After you get there, we got athletic performance insight. For anyone that is already, and we know so many of you are, is already thinking about next season managers, coaches, by all means, please check out athletic performance insight API as we call it in house. And it's an online platform where Eric's company will take your videos of game footage, and they will break it down.

Scott:

They'll give you analytics, you know, they use it all the way from youth hockey all the way up through And it's a super robust platform. You'll have player stats, team stats, and it's just a great way to review your, you know, different in game scenarios. You know, it's just it's got all the bells and whistles you'd need to really drill down on any of your games. So reach out to Eric on using the contact form at athletic performance insight dot com. He'd happily give you a demo of the platform as well as break down a video for free.

Jamie:

Love it.

Scott:

So, yeah, start start that conversation with Eric, you know, as you start thinking about next season.

Jamie:

He's great. $100 value. Yeah. It's great. Good stuff.

Scott:

If you mention Crazy Hockey Dads.

Jamie:

You mention Crazy Hockey Dads. Go get Yeah.

Scott:

10% off.

Jamie:

Yeah. Now can we talk about USA Hockey?

Scott:

Yeah, sure.

Jamie:

Dude, we had two goals waived.

Scott:

That was crazy. I mean, it just

Jamie:

yeah. The Quinn Hughes offsides like But the replay the replay,

Scott:

I I did you see a conclusive view?

Jamie:

I no.

Scott:

No? No. No. I mean, do they I mean, I guess they really do have angles that we don't

Andries:

get

Jamie:

to Maybe. See, but I mean, did you think that the second goalie interference was like a legit goalie interference? No. I don't think so either. But everybody always wants to fuck The United States in those international competitions.

Andries:

As far

Scott:

as the rules, like if your skates in the paint and you're not making contact with the goalie, it's interference? Apparently. I mean, that was weak.

Jamie:

I mean, listen, guess the international rules are, you know, I'm not exactly, you know, up on the international rules, but I didn't think that was goal interference. Listen, I'm also very biased obviously, right? Think- But you know, if think something's goal interference, have no problem saying, yeah, it's goal interference. It was ticky tacky at best, in my opinion.

Scott:

Agreed? It was weak. It was weak. It was weak. I thought it It is technically just like the millimeter of an off sides is technically off sides, fine, but I don't know.

Scott:

Just doesn't

Jamie:

seem Didn't it seem like they were just trying to fuck The United States on those two calls? Am I wrong? That's what it felt like I mean as a spectator, like watching from your couch.

Scott:

I yeah. That's interesting you say that. I mean, I don't know. Like, if you're if if so if you're Latvia, right? I mean, if you're Latvia, then you are probably looking if there's any chance you can get a goal

Jamie:

Oh, no. Or return I understand why they did

Scott:

it. So then

Jamie:

Any advantage is an advantage. A 100%.

Scott:

So then they go to the videotape and they're probably trying to be as by the book

Jamie:

And as it worked out nicely for them. It worked out for them. So I listen, I I give their coaching staff credit for looking at that and going, Yeah, let's go for it. What do you have to

Scott:

lose? Mean, especially if there's any chance you think that you might get it overturned.

Jamie:

If you lose, do you lose a timeout? Don't know

Scott:

what the international rules are. You don't get a penalty?

Jamie:

That's what I'm saying. Did you lose a timeout or does the guy go in the box? Is that what it is? That what Okay. They're

Scott:

I mean, it could be a different rule.

Jamie:

Is that what they're doing internationally? I don't know.

Scott:

No. I think I don't know all the international.

Jamie:

Yeah, me neither. Don't either.

Scott:

I think they get penalty. That's what happens in the NHL.

Jamie:

But yeah, but listen, I get why they did it. I mean, any advantage you can do

Scott:

the same thing.

Jamie:

100%, I would.

Scott:

I would probably Do do I think that anyone was trying to fuck them? No. I think it was a

Andries:

big I'm

Jamie:

not saying Labby was trying to fuck them.

Andries:

Are you

Scott:

the officials?

Jamie:

I mean

Scott:

Was it international hockey community? Maybe. I mean, look, if it You see plenty of reviewed calls that are just still like dicey in the NHL too. Don't know. Don't know.

Scott:

No? No. Yeah. Yeah. You definitely do.

Scott:

Yeah. So, I don't know. We'll see if if if this I

Andries:

don't know.

Scott:

No. So do I do to answer your question short, no, I don't think they were trying to No. But I think it was just coincidental. They had like two really like

Jamie:

Two really tight. Tight, close, like Going in a crash course with Canada here,

Scott:

buddy. Dude, Canada looks fuck.

Jamie:

They look very good.

Scott:

So fast. And, you know, I know what I seeing Conor McDavid No. Dropping bodies is He does amazing.

Jamie:

Am I wrong? I mean, listen. I don't watch him a whole ton because he's he's because he plays where he plays. But, like, does he do that shit normally? I don't think so.

Jamie:

So I don't see him throw his body around a lot. Do you?

Scott:

No. He not not like the

Jamie:

Not like

Scott:

that. And then he got then he got also got fucking level.

Jamie:

He did, but he blew somebody up early

Scott:

in No, the a 100%.

Jamie:

Like, somebody up. Like, I was impressed with it. I didn't think that was I didn't think he had that in his game.

Scott:

So, you you know, when when things do get physical, you can tell he's strong, like, especially if you

Jamie:

Oh, yeah. He's yeah.

Scott:

And he'll finish his checks, but you don't see, like when I say finish a check, means, like, if if you're, you know, going after your forechecking and, like, you end up in the corner, like, you know, it's not like he just pulls up all the time. Like,

Jamie:

No. No. He definitely does not.

Scott:

But he's not super aggressive. And I thought the body checks that he's threw

Jamie:

I was thrown are, like, super aggressive. I was very impressed with how he was throwing his body around.

Scott:

Yeah. Like Dude, they flick so fast. I couldn't I couldn't even imagine trying to play at that speed.

Jamie:

Their power play is so scary. Like, they're so scary.

Scott:

And they try to pull off the same move that they did in Four Nations with Crosby between the between the legs of McKinnon?

Jamie:

Yes. They're they're they're very good.

Scott:

Very good. They're I mean, you think USA looked that fast?

Jamie:

I thought USA looked dangerous.

Scott:

No. No doubt they looked dangerous.

Jamie:

That fast? The forwards?

Scott:

I don't know. I just thought Canada had No.

Jamie:

Don't think they looked that fast. No.

Scott:

And Sam Bennett dude, I want to see him on the ice more.

Jamie:

Dude, Sam Bennett was like an add on. He was an afterthought.

Scott:

Well, don't know if he was

Jamie:

You know what I mean? I know. He's an afterthought. Usually an injury replacement, but like Yes.

Scott:

Oh my god. Like, the few shifts that, like, I saw him on the ice, I was like, I want more of that.

Jamie:

I will say something that makes a huge difference for Team USA is fucking Quinn Hughes. Yeah. He is so goddamn good back there.

Scott:

Dude, it's

Jamie:

it's He is so good back

Andries:

there, dude. And he you

Scott:

you have to respect the shit out

Jamie:

of him

Scott:

when he has the puck on his stick.

Jamie:

He is so good back there. And we did not have that for Four Nations.

Scott:

Yeah. And, you know, it's it's funny, like, talking about someone who can really, like, change change the landscape of your team. You know that, like, he he how long has he been on the wild for? And, like, I think I heard some Like, he

Jamie:

Two months?

Scott:

He already broke a franchise record.

Jamie:

Even this? For what? Are you shitting

Scott:

It might have been, like, most consecutive multiple point games. Seriously, I could be wrong

Andries:

on it. For a defenseman or a player?

Scott:

I think for a defenseman on the wild, like, inside of, like, five weeks, I think he broke a franchise record.

Jamie:

No shit. As a Devils fan, I don't like to hear that because I don't wanna I don't wanna hear him doing well there.

Scott:

But I thought Jack actually,

Jamie:

I'm not I take that back. I like these two ones.

Scott:

Jack look Jack looks like he had some jam to his game.

Jamie:

Jack, in my opinion, didn't struggled in four nations.

Scott:

Yes. No

Jamie:

doubt. And he looked totally different. Totally different. Granted, it's against Latvia. Show me what he's going to look like against, you know, Sweden, Finland and Canada.

Jamie:

I'm hoping it's legit. But Jack, in my opinion, was almost non existent in Four Nations and he looked dangerous.

Scott:

He looked dangerous. He looked dangerous. No doubt.

Jamie:

His vision, his playmaking ability is so good. I mean, he is so good.

Scott:

Yeah, he's a danger. He just needs to stay healthy.

Jamie:

Dude, I mean, like the like he threw like a little saucer to Trocek coming into the lane And then Trochek getting backhanded up over the bar, like hit the goal. But it was such a nice pass just to get him streaking down the middle into the was right for the blue line. He quadrapped for the blue line and split two guys. Jack looks very good.

Scott:

Yeah. That was great to see.

Jamie:

Buck Nelson? Oh, no doubt. I mean, he would have had three if he didn't have the one waved off.

Scott:

Yeah, he's looking dangerous.

Jamie:

I mean, it's all the Austin Matthews still doesn't look like am I wrong? No. Does he look like the Austin Matthews that we

Scott:

all He's not wowing me.

Jamie:

No, he's not.

Scott:

Why? Don't I'm listening. In no way am I saying that. Like, he's not

Jamie:

But a tremendous you need him to be, like, the guy. Like The United States needs him to be like the guy.

Scott:

And that's not what you saw. No.

Jamie:

Four Nations was the same way. Yeah. I didn't think he was the guy in Four Nations.

Scott:

No, it's like everyone else around him raised their game and he was at the same 100%.

Jamie:

Like Genssel looks different, Ike looks different. They all look different. Some reason, Matthews doesn't look like I don't get it. I don't understand it. But the fucking Chuck brothers are dangerous.

Scott:

That was so great. Brother to brother.

Jamie:

The saucer. Yeah. His brother who ran

Scott:

off the barn in first goal. So good. So nice.

Jamie:

I cannot wait. I cannot wait for a fucking Us Canada game. I'm like, and everybody's waiting for it.

Scott:

But just going back to Canada for a second. No, but like, the thing about this line though, it's I would have never look, I'm certain. I don't have like the high level knowledge of any of this stuff, but like seeing McDavid with Wilson and Celebrini, I saw that. I was like, that's a crazy line. Seems like you kind of like,

Jamie:

Do you think Wilson's there to protect McDavid and Celebrini on their line? No, don't

Scott:

think so. I think he's there because he's a fucking dangerous. He changes the dynamic of the game when he's on the ice. You know what I mean? Like he, yeah, he'll create time and space and he'll fucking mess people up.

Jamie:

Listen,

Scott:

speaking of messing people up, poor Fiala.

Jamie:

Yeah. Talking about Tom Wilson. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, hopefully he's okay.

Jamie:

Think I read he had surgery the morning after or something like that. Right.

Scott:

That's like this morning.

Jamie:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So hopefully he's okay.

Scott:

Sucks. I mean, sucks for

Jamie:

the king.

Scott:

Switzerland. Sucks for the king. It sucks for him personally. All of it.

Jamie:

How did the devils do on Switzerland? I saw Heesha Rasikh Thornton and Timo Mayer. Did they do anything?

Scott:

Timo Mayer was throwing the body around.

Jamie:

He's a big boy.

Scott:

He was getting after it.

Jamie:

Timo Meyer is not a small dude.

Scott:

Wait, was it him that leveled McDaniel?

Jamie:

Did he? Timo Meyer is not a He's small got some size to

Scott:

him. He's wide. Yeah, know. Was He was a big dude. I forget if it was him, but nonetheless, no, he was throwing the body around because they even called him out.

Scott:

The broadcasters did, but they were even saying out like, you know, they're trying to play a much more physical game, which is not typically the Swiss game.

Jamie:

Maybe they're trying to throw Canada off their game?

Scott:

Or yeah, I don't know, whatever they were trying to do. So

Jamie:

excited for US Canada, by the way. So The US has who take Denmark?

Scott:

Yes, Denmark.

Jamie:

In like twenty minutes ish, twenty five minutes ish. Got to wrap this up. Sorry folks, we got to go watch the game.

Scott:

I'm going to watch a few movies just to

Jamie:

brush up on your movie game and your pop culture. We'll get you there.

Scott:

I'm not trying to get wherever that is.

Jamie:

We'll get you a little more polished. Let's not. What movie is that from?

Andries:

Did everyone just hear that?

Scott:

I just dropped a movie line and he goes, What movie is that from? Hold on. Hold on. On.

Jamie:

It's from Dumb and Dumber. Let's put another shrimp on the barbie.

Scott:

Let's not.

Jamie:

Let's not. So I should think. I should think.

Scott:

Whatever.

Jamie:

Took me what? Fifteen seconds? I got there. I got there. I got there.

Jamie:

You did. Anyway, so-

Andries:

outtakes from Tell me dumber?

Jamie:

No. You're about Gankerman? Is that what you're telling me about?

Scott:

I was pleasuring myself to the image of Mrs. Buttersworth.

Andries:

Oh my God. This show is going

Jamie:

so awful. She

Scott:

caught me there like the express eight train.

Jamie:

Bing bang, boom. Bing bang, boom.

Scott:

I know what horrors Villiers of Pompeii.

Jamie:

The arsonist has oddly shaped feet. Was it some of the lines? That movie is tremendous, by the way. Mean, Anchorman is one of my all

Andries:

time favorites.

Jamie:

One of my all time favorites. We can go for hours by Anchorman lines. But at least you know that one. You know the outtakes of that one.

Scott:

I mean, that's impressive. I've seen it.

Jamie:

Bing bang boom.

Scott:

Bing bang boom.

Jamie:

Yeah, that was a good one.

Scott:

That was so good. Listen, I certainly have not watched as many movies as you have and that's fine. And maybe I haven't even paid as close attention as you have and that's fine. But I'm not like in a fucking closet either.

Jamie:

No, you're not. I just break your chops. You're not in a closet at all. You actually have some decent knowledge. You have decent knowledge of like older movies.

Scott:

Because I you know that's

Jamie:

Cool Runnings, like those types of movies. Like those are like

Scott:

Draw a line down their head to make it look like a butt.

Jamie:

So it looks like a butt. Sankaya dead? Yeah, man. Yeah, man. Mine's giant and pushing down some ice.

Scott:

Penguins and Eskimos and igloos and

Jamie:

ice. I feel like that's appropriate with the Winter Olympics.

Scott:

Totally appropriate. R. P. John Candy.

Jamie:

Oh, you're not kidding by that. Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure that Snoop Dogg during some of the coverage for the Olympics Yeah. I'm pretty sure that he he interviewed the Jamaican pop set team. He he did. Yeah.

Jamie:

He actually had them in the in the they were he's walking up,

Scott:

like, Maloney somewhere. More fun than Snoop Dogg nowadays. Sweet Lord.

Jamie:

He's hanging out with like Sean White and Biden.

Scott:

Doesn't fuck around.

Jamie:

I mean, it's it's it's a pretty sick scene over there. Yeah. You know, Cortina looks gorgeous by the way.

Scott:

Yeah. You know? Yeah. Italy. Yeah.

Scott:

There's a lot of beautiful spots in Italy.

Jamie:

You've been?

Scott:

I have.

Jamie:

I have not.

Scott:

I've been twice. My wife doesn't like to fly, so I've not been.

Scott:

Take a cruise. That'd be long.

Jamie:

I was just going to say.

Scott:

It'd be long. That'd be long. Very long.

Jamie:

Yeah. I need to like, I need to like

Scott:

Just give her a pill. Give her a few drinks.

Jamie:

And like a few sedatives.

Scott:

And Ambien, perhaps.

Jamie:

I told you what happened to my buddy with Ambien when they were on their way to Ireland.

Scott:

No. What happened?

Jamie:

I didn't tell you? No. Why do I feel like I told this on one podcast before?

Scott:

Maybe you didn't. I forgot.

Jamie:

It was one of the earlier shows. So, I'll tell people just in case you have not gone back in our library, shame on you if you haven't. I'm just kidding. But I'm really

Scott:

not kidding. Kidding.

Jamie:

But so, yeah, so Damien, our buddy Damien went to Ireland with his wife when they were first married and he took a bunch of Ambien when they took off from JFK.

Scott:

Wait, she did or he did? He did. Okay.

Jamie:

Took a bunch of Ambien leaving from JFK. And there were issues with the plane, like shortly after takeoff. Yeah. Like some major issues, like major issues, like the plane had to come down to the ground like now.

Scott:

Yeah.

Jamie:

And they had to do like an emergency landing and he slept through the entire fucking thing. She could not wake him up.

Scott:

Wait. Did he have to like like jump on the slide at the emergency

Jamie:

I don't think so, but they had to get off the plane like immediately and she could not wake him up. She's like shaking him. He he wouldn't wake up.

Scott:

That's unreal. So what do they do?

Jamie:

What happened? Well, he got up eventually, but it wasn't

Scott:

But if that but you think

Jamie:

about That wasn't like

Scott:

a That was a real emergency.

Jamie:

Wasn't like a, hey, hon, get up.

Scott:

No, I get it. But if that was a real emergency

Jamie:

No shit. It was I mean, it was an emergency. It just wasn't like life

Scott:

or Maybe just don't take the Ambien until you've like already like clear takeoff. So you're at cruising altitude? Yeah. Yeah. A 100%.

Jamie:

Because again, when you're allowed to take off your seat belt, then you take the sleeping pill.

Scott:

A 100%.

Jamie:

Ladies and gentlemen, this is the captain speaking from the area. We just hit 55,000 feet and we're gonna turn off the fashion seat belts on and see if can move around the cabin, and Lily's will come by with drinks and snacks for you guys. And if you want to get a sleeping pill, have at it. Thank you very much, and enjoy the rest of your flight.

Scott:

Yep. That's that's that was good. That was good. Little, maybe a little too long, but that

Jamie:

was good.

Scott:

Wow. Maybe. Maybe. It was good. I'll shorten

Jamie:

it next time.

Scott:

Next time.

Jamie:

You like that though? I did. Thanks.

Scott:

Yeah. That was a good one.

Jamie:

But yeah. So he, he, he was not waking up from Ambien. That's funny.

Scott:

Yeah. Wow.

Jamie:

You know?

Scott:

All right.

Jamie:

Yeah. Should be like, this is your captain speaking.

Scott:

All right. So who

Jamie:

we, anyway, how long have we been going for? I don't know.

Scott:

Thirty nine minutes. Wow. Okay.

Jamie:

Shall we?

Scott:

No, let's just keep talking.

Jamie:

We can do that too.

Scott:

Sorry, Andries. No, kick it over. Go.

Jamie:

All right. So we have Andries Villiers, the CEO of Titan Battlegear on for an interview. He was great. Really cool product. I highly recommend Scott and I highly recommend the Titan Battlegear stuff.

Jamie:

He is an entrepreneur that saw a problem, right, with his son that plays. And he figured out a way to produce a pretty impressive base layer. It's the the highest quality base layer on the market as far as protection goes for your kids. With the A9 protection and you'll hear the interview so you can figure out what that means shortly when when he describes it. But it is a very high quality base layer, breathable, very high quality.

Jamie:

We've been seeing a lot of cuts in the game recently for whatever reason. So, this is a base layer top that that Titan Battlegear has produced. That is pretty impressive.

Scott:

Absolutely. Certainly is. And they look great to boot. They do look great. Which is part of the strategy,

Jamie:

which is also, you know, from

Scott:

a business perspective, super smart.

Jamie:

Yes. No, they have a nice little thing going down there. So use our discount code CRAZYDADS10 for the Titan Battlegear base layer. Pants coming soon. That's what I understood.

Jamie:

Right? Yeah. So enjoy. This is Andries Villiers from Titan Battlegear. All right.

Jamie:

Here we are with our next interview. We have Andries Villiers from Titan Battlegear Andries, thanks for coming on with us, man.

Andries:

Thanks guys. Really appreciate

Jamie:

it. So give us a little background on kind of you as a kid. You know, you mentioned you didn't play hockey, but now your kid's knee deep in it. So you're knee deep in it and, kind of go through that stuff and how you kind of started Titan.

Andries:

Yeah, absolutely. And thanks again for having me on. You know, my story is really first and foremost, as a parent that compelled me to do what I do here. I did not play hockey growing up. I had done a little bit of learn to play and, and, you know, messed around with, I think I had a Gretzky aluminum twig back in the day, like posted and played for a few months.

Andries:

I think my parents were kind of like, Hey, we're not driving you twenty minutes to this and all of the expense. So I stuck to baseball and football and played that through high school pretty competitively. I did happen to grow up in a part of the country that seemed to produce quite a bit of quality talent. I went to a school in Greenwich, Connecticut called Brunswick. You know, from my graduating class, there was a first round draft pick Hugh Jessman, who unfortunately had a pretty tragic injury very early on his career.

Andries:

Didn't take off and kind of hit the levels that most expected him to. But being around players and talent like that, I kind of always knew the culture and, and, you know, some of the work ethic and always had some, you know, appreciation for the sport despite not playing. And I felt like I was part of that community in a sense. You know, my experience to get to where we are with Titan today first and foremost is led by my son who ended up bringing me into the game all in. You know, we're still living in Manhattan and he was just three years old.

Andries:

We went down to the soccer field because I, you know, he had too much energy for the apartment and figured I would try to get him doing some activity other than just riding his bike around the neighborhood. So I put him in organized soccer, which is fairly disorganized, as you'd imagine at that age. Totally. Within about a minute or two, he had already, tackled the kid on the field, taking the ball and kicked it at the goal. And it just seemed incongruent with the sport he was playing and the personality that he had.

Jamie:

Not a good fit. Yeah.

Andries:

So I made a big, quick phone call to one of my buddies from high school that was, was the goalie on the team. And I knew he was starting to do some coaching with his son who was the same age. And I was like, Hey, how does this whole, like learn to play program work? What does he need to do? Is he need to just figure out a skate?

Andries:

And he, you know, gave me kind of a quick read on, on what I needed to do next. And we were actually moving out to Connecticut a few months later. So he ended up being my, my son's coach, at an early on stage. And it's been all hockey ever since. So that's, you know, about eight years ago when we had that, that starting point there.

Andries:

The other kind of contextually relevant piece of this is that it's actually an unfortunate piece is Brunswick schools, also pretty famous in the hockey world for a fatal incident that occurred on ice. It was actually, was not a Brunswick player. It was a St. Luke's player playing at Brunswick. They had two medical staff on-site to my knowledge, and they had pretty much the best, response you could possibly have.

Andries:

And unfortunately the skate blade that, Teddy Balcon took to the neck ended up being a fatal injury, much like the rest of all the Connecticut. And I think Westchester area parents at the time, we all rushed off to pure hockey and bought these kinds of things, you know, on the shelf and strap them on and kind of have this sense of security. Cause it said Kevlar and we thought we were all good to go. I had bought one for myself. I was already, you know, in the men's league world.

Andries:

I do play hockey now. Oh, nice. But, but, but I do strap the skates on at least once a week down here. And it just occurred to me that maybe this neck protection, one, my kid hated it too. He was losing it in his bag all the time.

Andries:

This weird strapped on thing. Three, it was always out of position. Was just having a hard time logically understanding how that could provide any level of protection. So, I I've started a few other companies before, in my time, I'm kind of a serial entrepreneur and tinkerer. And, I wouldn't say I'm a inventor too much or a product expert, but, I can usually put two things together to come out product I'm looking for.

Andries:

And, I started doing some research online, went down the rabbit hole. And the first thing I uncovered in the whole world of neck protection in the game of hockey was a study that the Mayo Clinic did, back in 2015. It was then later republished by the clinical journal of sports medicine. At that time, there was about six or seven brands that were in the market brands like EyeTech, Reebok, you know, some that you still know today, Shock Doctor and CCM and so forth. And, they, they did a lab test study where they simulated escape blade at a couple of different speeds.

Andries:

And they uncovered that 11 of these 14 neck guards at the lowest level of impact did not stop the escape blade. So some of the suspicions that I had, unfortunately were validated. And, know, it's almost like you, you, you feel a symptom, you go on web MD and you're like, I'm dying. I had like moments of that. And then I was like, man, there's gotta be something better than this.

Andries:

This is crazy to me. So then I started getting into the material sciences and going down the other rabbit hole, like what makes, materials cut resistant, what type of yarns and coatings, what are the different types of knits that can create different levels of tension, four way stretch, but still create a cut resistance and pretty much went around the entire globe of finding mills and textile partners that could produce a better product and just brought all these materials in house and started cutting it up and using my wife to help me do some stuff on a sewing machine and came up with Proto one, which is that Titanotech Titanotech is how we brand all of our cut resistant materials. There's a few different, levels that are within that overall brand name that we have. It's kind of a trademark term that we use. Our first shirt we made used a Velcro closure like many of the other ones.

Andries:

We did an integrated collar into the shirt so that the kid wasn't losing it in the bag. That was kind of number one thing I wanted to solve for right away. You know, just as a product market fit side, you know, I figured parents are buying these for their kids, but the kids hate wearing them. I was like, what if we could make a product that kids ask their parents to wear? This is way before there are mandates.

Andries:

So nobody had to wear these. So I was already thinking of like, man, how do we get adoption for this product? It wasn't even like, Hey, everyone has to buy this. Let's be the best. Was how do we make a neck guard that parents understand if they are buying one, this one's safer and does what it intends to do.

Andries:

Number one, but number two, what if a kid walked into, let's say pure hockey and saw when he's on the shelf and said, Hey, that's pretty cool. Like, how do I get that? That was always kind of the frame that I was using when we were approaching this. So the first launch we did of the product, I bought a 100 units from the factory. It was the absolute minimum amount of units we could purchase.

Andries:

I wish I had one here. You'd look at it. It's not too dissimilar from, you can kind of see how it evolved into what It's we in a museum of funny, right? Back and look at that. But we sold out all 100 shirts within about forty eight hours with almost no, we didn't really do any marketing behind it.

Andries:

It's not a lot of shirts, but it's a lot of shirts for day one, day two. And, believe it was solely at that point predicated on the fact that we had five colors. We had a really bright blue, a really bright yellow, really bright pink, a gray and a black. And black actually was the slowest mover of the five. So I was like, man, the color thing, I think they're really leaning into Nobody wears any of those colors on ice.

Andries:

So it wasn't like complimenting their uniform. There was nothing logical about that other than it was like, man, this is kind of like a standout sense of identity and maybe a kid seeing this in vain. Hey mom, that's kind of cool. Can I get that? And Hey mom, maybe mom or dad says, Hey, that's actually a cut resistant neck guard.

Andries:

Awesome deal. So that's kind of the origin story of the business and kind of at least a little connective tissue to where I came from and why hockey for me as a person who did not play it growing up.

Jamie:

So it's actually funny because you've we've kind of found each other an interesting time because I would say about two months ago a dad on our team he's got a 12 that plays with my son Dominic. His older one is a senior in high school. Okay. Was playing in a AAA game. Something happened, took a skate blade to right above the knee.

Jamie:

All right. Opened him up substantially. Okay. Took about two, three weeks to heal and then he went on and played again three, four weeks later. And then what happened is he suffered another injury because and they didn't know at the time, but they went back and looked at it after the MRI.

Jamie:

He had a hole. Below the sutures. It like destroyed the muscle so he went to New York, New York Rangers doctor six hour surgery you know he's out for like six months and then three weeks later, we're in Hershey at a showcase happens to kid on our team. Kid goes down in a strange way, right above the knee, you know, like ten, twelve stitches opens him up. And so in the last two months, Andries, I've seen four like nasty, I mean, like two to the above the knee and two to the forearm.

Jamie:

And I'm talking like heavy, heavy gaseous. We're not talking like a paper cut, you know. So Scott and I were like, we need to do an episode on safety gear for our kids that were not parents that we're talking to. Right. So the fact that we're you guys are kind of we found each other at this time is really kind of funny.

Jamie:

So I've been researching this for two months already, right? Just by trying to figure out who to have on. So yeah, we kind of found each other an interesting time. Can you tell our audience what the ANSI scale is and why Titan is different than the rest of the manufacturers out there?

Andries:

So I'm trying to get some of this glare away from you guys here.

Jamie:

Yeah. It's all right. Don't worry

Andries:

about it. Yeah. So the, the ANSI scale is an American standard for cut resistance. Was like, oh, this is a little It's an American scale for cut resistance in Europe. They use the EN three eighty eight.

Andries:

There's a translation layer between the two. You can almost look at one and the other and kind of equate them. There the range is from A1 to A9. Everything is somewhere on that scale. If you take a cotton t shirt and there's a machine called a TDM 100 for short, Tomo dynamometer, I believe is how you pronounce it.

Andries:

But TDM 100 machine, and that uses a mandrel. It's got a copper sensitivity pad on the bottom, and then you run a blade 15 times. You replace the blade every time and it takes the average distance that blade travels before it cuts through that material. And then you put different counterbalance weights on it that will apply pressure. In those testings, everything will come up with something.

Andries:

So a cotton t shirt typically will come up as an A1, sometimes even an A2. When you look at what the neck guards are in the market, even today, the same exact products that were in that Mayo Clinic test from 2015 that you'll find from the major brands, duopoly, Bowers ECM, and the others that are really the mass market brands. They tend to be in that A2 to A3 range that Mayo clinic study proved that with the Graham's force load of that blade of a hockey blade at the angle that they were testing it. And this was twenty fifteen blades are way sharper today. I mean, with interchangeable blades,

Jamie:

absolutely. Sparks machines means

Andries:

you get blades out per shift, right? Absolutely. Razor blades on their feet. So putting all that aside, which gives even more reason to pay attention to this, but, A6 is kind of that Mendoza line where it's like, if you're an A6 and above, you can pretty much safely say that that material, if it is in the right position where the blade touches will prevent that blade from piercing through and causing a laceration. It's really only half of the equation because if you think about protection, talk about, and I kind of talk about this internally, it's nothing branded at all, but the safety equation is really cut resistance plus coverage is you could have a nine, the highest level of cut resistance, but if it's not covering sufficient area of your carotid artery and jugular vein that are here, It doesn't matter how much cut resistance you have.

Andries:

So we've seen some players in the market that have a seven cut resistance, which is again, If you look at that a six kind of minimum threshold, but they only cover, they're more like a mock turtleneck. Then you look at some of the major brands. Have like plenty of coverage. They're actually very, very high, so high that you get bunching under the chin and under the back of the head, except they're doing it with an A2 or an A3 cut resistant collar. So it's like, great, it's there, but the blade's going to pierce right through it.

Andries:

And I was looking at this like, man, you either have one or the other. There's really none that

Scott:

have it

Andries:

together, except a few kind of more cottage industry businesses that are out there. And as I mentioned, like there was nothing that looked cool, looked any different. I mean, you walk into a pure hockey or a monkey sports, you'll see five different brands, all the same black cut resistant. You can only tell the difference by looking at the logo on the collar. They all have generally the same level of cut protection.

Andries:

And that's really the majority of what's out there. So I feel our mission is more of an education mission first and foremost. Obviously we have the product that protects kids and we wouldn't want our kids as hockey parents, both me and my co founder, he's actually a twelve year level four coach down in Maryland coaches, a team on the Baltimore stars. Nice. Yeah.

Andries:

And, and, and we just say, Hey, we wouldn't have our kids in anything else. I mean, that is literally why we built this business at the beginning. We felt we were compelled to do it, to create a safe product. And James, you talked about the frequency of incident. I think putting some numbers behind that is really important.

Andries:

And it's not every day you see on the news, how many, you know, hockey lacerations there are. Although I did find at this point, probably almost a decade old medical report that looked at a nine year period of time. I think it was like 2005 to 2015 or something around that period. And it was showing of all the hospital visits as a result of a hockey accident. What percent of, you know, it was a concussion.

Andries:

Was it broken bones? Was it fingers, whatever. Twenty seven percent were lacerations. Quarter. Which is crazy.

Andries:

Right?

Jamie:

I mean, that's almost

Andries:

a third right of every single hospital visit from a hockey mat, a hockey game that resulted in injury is from a laceration, whether it's on your leg, whether it's on your arm, whether it's on your neck. Obviously they're not all fatal. Those make national or global news. Why does it have to be fatal to be newsworthy? And why does it have to, end in a hospital visit to even be something that we're necessarily taking proper precautions for?

Jamie:

That's of course. Agreed.

Andries:

Yeah. Just one more point on that, you know, under the, the, the new car, you know, you buy the new car, the red car, you drive it off the lot. And then you're like, why does everyone have red cars? I don't know whether it's just the energy, but since I've started this company, I'm not joking. There's been one to two kids a year on my son's team that have experienced a laceration and gone to the hospital.

Andries:

Yeah. Legs. Most of them are wearing our shirts. So our legging is coming out in the spring.

Jamie:

Was my next question for you.

Andries:

But, but it's just crazy. I'm like, I don't know whether we're attracting this attention now in this energy. Cause it just seems like everyone's getting lacerations, or the game is just speeding up, but all of these things definitely mean that we all need to be paying more attention to this.

Jamie:

I definitely do think people are getting bigger, stronger, faster. And with the sparks machine, most of these people have at home sharpeners. So it's funny. I asked the question to a dad the other day. I'm like, with our little team, we've seen four major lacerations in two months.

Jamie:

So I said to one of his dads, I'm like, why is this happening at such frequency? Right? Like what you just said, and the only thing I can come up with and you tell me if I'm wrong is like you said, the home sharpeners are our skis just that much more sharp or, or the technology and steel so good that they're holding an edge longer. And I mean, is that what's going on?

Andries:

It's probably all of the above. I mean, quite honestly, I mean, no question the skates are sharper. I mean, my buddies that played hockey growing up that were D one players or above. Yeah. They they haven't sharpened their skates in, fifteen years.

Andries:

They're like, oh, they're like, I play men's league. I don't even wear my shoulder pads or my skates. I mean, you can run your hand over it all you want. Yep. Okay.

Andries:

Like, you do need to be handicapped because you're that good. I need the sharpest skate possible. Still going to start. So I think that's, that's absolutely one part of it. The kids are so much more, I'd say agile and athletic in their approach.

Andries:

Question. Just look, it's a twelve month a year sport at this point. They're all doing off ice training. I don't know, five times a week. They've got personal trainers.

Andries:

And we talked about Jeff earlier, you know, he's they're creating super humans out there on the ice. The game's so much faster. It's become acrobatic more than bully ish and aggressive. So it's all of those things together. You know, and look, I think finally some of the leagues are starting to move where they need to be.

Andries:

It's, it's, it's interesting to see the NCAA is like the, the last of the Mohicans holding out. You have to imagine they're gonna follow on quickly with the NHL now. It's, it's just, it's just wild that that specific cut carve out still exists today.

Jamie:

So, and USA hockey just came out with something on August 1, right? That they're going to, USA hockey player has to wear a neck guard period.

Andries:

That yeah. So, so we started our company in 2023, 2024, August is when the mandate went in, went into effect. And then 2025, August, every year they do their rule change in January.

Jamie:

And then

Andries:

it goes into effect in August In August is of this year is when they put a higher level of qualification and definition around that. The just to kind of in one sentence or two sentences, their initial approach to this and why it's taken, I think so much time for people to take this seriously. When they rolled it out in 2024, the rules stated a commercially produced neck laceration.

Jamie:

So

Andries:

unless you're sewing it in your closet yourself and you're, and you're not doing that, and you're actually charging someone a dollar for it, it is effectively legal on ice. So great.

Jamie:

Not exactly effective, but legal.

Andries:

Yeah. Yes. It was effectively legal, but not effective. Right. And then this year they brought ATCC in to provide certification for it, which you know, it's all run through an ISO certification 10/1956.

Andries:

And so that one has requirements for cut resistance has requirements for actually the height that I was talking about that coverage area.

Jamie:

Toward the jugular and stuff like that, toward like the parts to

Andries:

know. And then there's all these neck form tests where they slide it on. They do different movements with it and make sure it stays in place. It's a pretty rigid test. It took us man at least eight to ten weeks more documentation than actual product testing.

Andries:

It's really an administrative nightmare. But once you have that done, it's like a moat around your business.

Jamie:

And you guys just partnered with a USA hockey recently, right?

Andries:

And we did. Yeah. That was a great thing that we, you know, we needed to do HCC to comply. And if you guys want go down the certification rabbit holes, but there's this interesting changeover period right now with hockey, Canada and USA hockey and HCCC and BNQ. BNQ is a Canadian certification standard for like coffee pots to neck guards, anything.

Andries:

Whereas HCC is like hockey, right? Like they're, you know, it's your visors, it's your helmets, it's your hockey gear. So they're a little more niche, but BNQ in the absence of HCC having any stay in neck protection, USA hockey, again, didn't require this, but USA, I would just say players and parents and referees assumed BNQ was the requirement for The U S neck guards, which it was not. All that being said, every major brand, whether it's shock doctor, Bauer, CCM, Boro Road, you know, anyone that was in market for longer than pretty much the last two years, you know, we've only been in market for two years. So anyone proceeding that has had BNQ certification because they're in Canada.

Andries:

It was required by Hockey Canada. And then they would just sell that same product in The U S so they were in effect selling BNQ certified products in The U S all good to go. Players and parents just perceived that as being a required thing. We actually had to fight that the whole first year. We had so many people on the website, Hey, is this B and Q certified?

Andries:

I was like, look, we don't sell in Canada yet. It's like $30,000 in three months of work to do that. It's by no means a reflection of our product. It's just we're a startup. That's just not on our table for today.

Andries:

And guess what? We're lucky enough. We don't actually need it to sell in The U S right now. Like we're just gonna, we're gonna get in market, protect kids and we'll figure that out. Then fast forward HCC gets announced.

Andries:

Well, thankfully we didn't spend all that time and money on being huge because we need HCC. However, because hockey Canada rules committee meets every two years. This is an off year for them. So USA hockey said, Hey, HCC is required. Hockey Canada doesn't update their rules for another year.

Andries:

And so, because USA is an annual, they said, look, we're going to do a two year grace period for neck guards at BNQ to give those big brands. You know, all those big brands happen to sit on the board of ATCC. So you add one and one together and figure out the other piece of it, but Or two year grace period. Conversely, Hockey Canada, because they did not meet, has not said ATCC has a grace period or reciprocity to be sold in you know, to be used on ice in Hockey Canada sanctioned events. So technically right now we could be allowed to be used in Canada regardless.

Andries:

We still have such disproportionate demand in The U S for our supply that we haven't actually entered that market. We're gonna let it play out over the next kind of six to twelve months and see. Let's see what happens. The only advantage we have in this is that if they do provide a grace period for us to use HECC in a Canadian market is that HCC and the ISO standard allows for a non Velcro closure, which is what our innovative patented technology is, which is this, you know, it's almost like a turtleneck and it isn't as comfortable as one. If you ask anyone what they hate the most about their other neck guards, other than it's a neck guard, is that it doesn't have, is that it has Velcro.

Andries:

So that's huge sell point for us. There's 93,000 female, players in USA hockey membership alone. I've never seen a female look at our shirt and not say, I have to have this shirt. Like I, the Velcro catches my hair every single day. Just didn't.

Andries:

We just did a partnership with EWHL. We're doing all their players, all their refs, similarly to how we do it through this USA hockey deal, which we can get to in a minute. But this does give us an opportunity to take a product to the Canadian market and have a really unique selling point that is effectively protected by this loophole in the BNQ requirement, requiring a Velcro opening and closure and HCCC not doing it. So what we think might be a headwind could actually be a tremendous tailwind in this Canadian market. So a little inside baseball on that, but, while we're talking kind of the neck guard regulatory period, it's,

Scott:

to know. You know, it's it's funny that you were mentioning, the Velcro piece, two things. So, my son never wears, he never wants the Velcro in the back. He always wants to wear it open. And then number two, and we're always telling him, dude, you have to you have Close it.

Scott:

You have to light it up. But no, he always he always leaves it open. And then this past weekend, my my son was he was playing in a game that was with a bunch of kids from all different teams and there was one girl on the team and she was wearing a Titan Battlegear top. And so like, you know, that it was like, I was yellow and white and it looked great. And I certainly noticed it straight away, she stood out.

Scott:

But like the hair thing, didn't even think that that would be a thing for girls, but that makes so much sense. And, you know, as I'm hearing you talk about all this stuff and like as a parent, you know, just seeing a brand like Bauer, CCM, whatever the top brands are, you know, the ones that are household names, you would just think that the quality of their products would be such that it would meet like, you know, more rigorous standards. And to hear that it's not is like, is really disappointing and kind of scary as well because like, you know, one of the things that I want to touch upon this and just kind of how you've approached just the overall cost of, you know, the- of your product and this product segment, right? Because they're not inexpensive and I'm assuming that the higher quality is just going to be more expensive to manufacture, but as a parent, like not knowing the, you know, the bit about how easy it might be to cut a bauer or whatever neck guard, I, you know, like, I was like, oh, you start shopping by price at some point, you know, you're like, oh, do I really need to spend that much money on that?

Scott:

Because it's all the same. But lo and behold, it's not, you know. So, through all those words, I'm curious just like how you've approached the cost of just manufacturing something like this and the philosophy there because obviously there's so much talk about how expensive the sport is and obviously no one wants to cheap out on their kid's safety, you know? So just like, how do you like, you know, internally kind of talk about costs, the direction that you, you know, that you want to take things?

Andries:

Yeah. Mean, it's a loaded question because there's lots of stuff out there. One we produce in The U S our track boots in St. Paul, which is the official state of hockey. Know we talked a little

Jamie:

bit about it.

Andries:

Just going to

Jamie:

say that state of hockey.

Andries:

But all that being said, American seamstresses are one hard to come by. It's not just they're expensive. They're also very limited. And so our production volume is far below where we need it to be. You know, if you ask anyone who has a distaste about Titan, their complaint is I've been waiting three months for my product.

Andries:

I can't get it. And we spend an inordinate amount of time and effort trying to resolve those customer situations or get them. We have a lot of colors. So we're like, Hey, we have this five other colors in stock. It really wants this color.

Andries:

I'm like, one side of me, I'm like, okay, well you can't buy that color from anyone else. So like, I'm going to try to get it to you as soon as we can. It just to be a color that's not in this month's production. So, so that's like problem number one is we just don't have economies of scale yet. We have three new factories, two actually down here in Florida that are huge.

Andries:

They can bring a tremendous scale to us. And then we have another one in North Bergen, just across the Lincoln Tunnel.

Jamie:

Oh, that's right. Far from us.

Andries:

Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. In West New York. They are actually doing their first thousand unit run this week.

Andries:

So, we'll have a made in New Jersey, I guess, additional badge on those units. You're gonna have a factory store

Scott:

or I'll swing down and get some.

Andries:

Yeah. You guys can go, you know, farm to table or factory. Yeah, exactly. So, so that's number one is it just costs more. Obviously we don't have the tariff concerns.

Andries:

The geopolitical stuff is

Jamie:

tends to

Andries:

work in our favor. But putting all of that aside, one, the cut resistant product that we work with is incredibly expensive. It's $120 a yard. Wow. And we use about almost 0.2 yards per shirt.

Andries:

So that's just number one. The fabrics that we use on, on the actual garment, the body fabrics they're super, they have tons of coatings. So it's like anti microbial, anti odor, wicking, the actual, poly chips that they're using in that are like ethically sourced, which in the stretch poly spandex world, there's a lot of malarkey in that supply chain.

Jamie:

So,

Andries:

whereas a, let's say Chinese made fabric that you'll find in a traditional, you know, big brand base layer for that cut resistant, just any base layer is around 50 to 75¢ a yard. We're paying $7 a yard for our fabric. You start stacking things that we're spending. Of course. I don't know, 10 times more on your cogs start to get up there almost doubt.

Andries:

So I'm like one, we almost can't afford with our current margins to do wholesale. So we've been very reluctant to go to the big guys. We've done deals with shields. We've done deals with monkey sports and those deals almost broke even. I mean, they're, they're, they're, they're like really like right there.

Andries:

They're basically marketing executions for us

Jamie:

to get it out there. Yeah.

Andries:

We need to be, when someone touches and feels this product, it does so much for us. It's worth taking basically no margin on these products to get into these. They're great retail partners. They've done phenomenal work with us in terms of how to merchandise and like, we will support them for years to come, of the kind of commercial advantage in doing so. And then, you know, try to make up some of that margin on our D2C side.

Andries:

But if you look at all my partners are ex Under Armour guys. My co founder, he was the head of product Under Armour for almost twenty years. He designed Kevin Planks jet. He's, he was like, gee.

Jamie:

Oh, that's right. He's a Maryland guy. Right. Right. Right.

Jamie:

Yeah. Is where that came from.

Andries:

Our new headquarters are in Florida and it's way better, but he's like, stuck here. I'm like, we're not really stuck there.

Jamie:

Yeah. We're not ever really stuck. We? Yeah.

Andries:

Maybe one day, but, you know, they're beating me up every day. They're like, dude, we need to be higher priced for what our costs are. I'm like, look, like we're constantly fighting that battle. It's like, do we execute on the mission of getting as many kids safe on the ice? If we're cost prohibitive, hockey is a high HHI industry like sport.

Andries:

It's the highest. I mean, if you probably took the average income of our CRM of our customer database, it's probably higher than any other parents of any other sport. All that being said, it's even more so to the point you can't add that much more cost to it because it's already so expensive. We're always trying to do that. I think we have goals of doing things like we have a loyalty program, number one that rewards parents that are buying multiple units.

Andries:

So, I mean, they can get up to 20% savings off of that, which, you know, again, starts to bring it down considerably at the price point. And then we also created a standalone version of the neck guard, which is about half the price, a little bit less then the fully integrated shirt doesn't have the cut, the wrist protection, the cut protection on the wrist. Of course it's a standalone. So, you know, we do recommend the full shirt because of risks are, you know, a very, very high incident rate, no doubt. But putting that aside, it's at least protecting the most critical part, you know, generally a wrist laceration is not going to end in a death if you have proper medical staff on-site, Jugular definitely not.

Andries:

And quite honestly, a femoral as well. That upper groin area is very understated. Your, I mean, your, your, your breezers are not going to protect that as you know, they slide up, especially for down on the ice upside down. It's completely no padding there. I mean, it's mesh.

Andries:

Right. So I think most people under underestimate how dangerous that situation is, which is, you know, while we're rushing to get this legging into market. Right. But look, we, we do intend over the next year as we get our volumes up, we start to get more demand and buying power for

Jamie:

the material. Your costs will come down.

Andries:

It starts to bring the costs down, starts to pass them on to the

Jamie:

customer. More efficient.

Andries:

Exactly. So, you know, those are the things that happen over time. I mean, we're, we're still working our way towards being a profitable business, although, we're, we're probably hit that this month. I think we'll hit breakeven and then start to accelerate, you know, you know, next year. And quite honestly, the profitability thing is really just pinned.

Andries:

We can't produce enough shirts to sell it. We have the demand. Can't enough supply to clear the fixed costs. So it's about to hit that point there. And then it'll start to unlock stuff for us.

Andries:

Like, you know, you just mentioned, we did this USA hockey partnership. You know, we're very slow to push that out there because we know it's just going to stack more demand and more demand.

Jamie:

Of course it will.

Andries:

Was like, guys, let's throttle the PR on this a little bit, just until we can kind of need it. I mean, when we have a demand problem, like I dream of that, the supply problem makes me sleep. So when I do really fall asleep, I go from supply problem, dreaming about selling. Right. It's just, you know, kind of the the the two worlds that we live in on a day to day basis here.

Scott:

That's unreal. The the, you know, the the the part that you started talking about, which has also piqued my interest and James, maybe you were gonna go there, but I I've cut myself twice and we I've always made fun of, I think, by Bob Mancini because I did it Yes.

Jamie:

USA Hockey.

Scott:

But nonetheless, I still

Scott:

suffered the lacerations. But that one You did.

Jamie:

You did bust your chest.

Andries:

Where were the cuts?

Scott:

Upper thigh. So I it was, it was tryouts for my Bantam, my my second year Bantam year, I think. And the puck was dumped in the corner and we had to skate basically from like, you know, a complete diagonal from the blue line to the far corner. It was me against a guy, like, pretty much my size and we were just like two tanks that collided and however I fell, my right leg, like kind of like as if you're going to cross your leg over your other one, your left leg, my skate came up and just cut the inside of my thigh. It wasn't bad but it was still like a cut and

Andries:

I was

Scott:

like that sucks. But, yeah, no, so, so in that area in particular, and James had talked about it earlier, just like on the quad and like the leg area, you're sort of talking about leggings. And now in terms of like those and the future of like hockey safety with respect to cut resistance, are there other areas that you're looking to add cut resistance to that maybe isn't out there in the market currently?

Andries:

Yeah. So I mentioned my partner, Adam was, was the head of product at Under Armour. He tells me that they spent 7 figures plus developing what you know as the Under Armour legging. The most challenging aspect of that is the projection around the male private area, which literally costs millions of dollars to get that pattern corrected.

Jamie:

Figure it out. Yeah.

Andries:

Figure it out. And so he is legging perfectionist.

Jamie:

That's his thing.

Andries:

Yeah. I can tell you this legging we were going to bring to market is going to be the most comfortable, best fitting, perfect legging. He happens to also be a goalie, so he's a total psychopath.

Jamie:

A 100%.

Andries:

Plays very competitive men's league and, and, know, he'll, he'll, you know, some of our pro guys that work with us, he's like, put him on ice. Want to, I want to stop some bucks. So he's in it. And so what we've seen in terms of the lower body protection in the game of hockey is most of the leggings out there that have decent ergonomics and fit have a real lack of cut resistant coverage area. Generally, they're doing just a little patch on the back of kind of the Achilles

Jamie:

and like a little above the knee, right?

Andries:

Socks tend to cover anyways. So not that we don't want double the protection. I'm all for it, but of all areas, the one that already typically has coverage, because most players are wearing at least at an elite level are wearing cut resistant socks a lot by mandate. Others just by EQM or the organization pushing that down on them. But they're all overlooking all of the other critical areas.

Andries:

Know James, you sent that picture that was just above the kneecap. That tends to be one that we, I mean, since I've been in this business, I probably get five to 10 pictures. Like you

Jamie:

said, each

Andries:

it's like, I'm like the guy to send these nasty. Which, you know, I love seeing, cause I know we have a big problem to solve, but I also hate seeing cause

Jamie:

yeah, of course. Yeah.

Andries:

At this point I feel like an ER doctor, I just look at it. I'm like, yeah, know you've noticed that

Jamie:

looks like

Andries:

we got to stop that. So, you know, we're, we've developed a legging that has, and look, this is talking about costs. So in theory you would want to make, we have a cut resistant material that goes into the leg. I actually have a sample of it right here. Basically is almost indistinguishable from a compression legging that you would get from Lululemon.

Andries:

Right? It's amazing. You could make the entire legging out of this product. If you did that, the cost to make that legging would be over $250 So we'd be like, okay, we're selling like a $700 legging. I mean, what does this thing do it?

Andries:

Like, does it go to the moon? Yeah. So you have to start making concessions and figuring out, okay, well, like how do we reduce this part and that part? So you can get your yield down to like a half a yard instead of like a yard and a half or two yards. Right.

Andries:

And then do a little negotiation, try to get it there. So we've done that. We've got full femoral coverage. We cover pretty much halfway down the quad to just below the kneecap, because the reality is when you get down on your knee,

Jamie:

the shin guard pops out

Andries:

pops open is completely exposed. I mean, like we've seen so many cuts. We know all the areas to protect. At this point, we we've over indexed on trying to cover as much as possible again, while trying to be price conscious. There's one or two brands out there that have a pretty decent areas of coverage.

Andries:

Their cut resistance is kind of middle of the road, but unfortunately those leggings are like droopy and don't fit right. And so the comfort and the performance piece starts to lack and then you know, the, the willingness to wear it and, you know, you start to kind of get low adoption rate there. So you really need to nail both. Like how do we get the legging that looks, feels and fits and performs like Adams Under Armour legging me spent millions of dollars figuring out with the cut resistance and the protection that Titan stands for. And so I think when you bring those together, we've got a really, really solid product coming out.

Andries:

So we're looking forward to pushing it out. I think we've been able to get the cost to a reasonable level that, it should in theory be somewhere in line with our shirt, which is, which is pretty amazing with the amount of, cut resistant product that's in there.

Scott:

Go ahead.

Jamie:

So I'm curious. So one of the things that kind of, again, when I started researching this stuff two months ago, right. Cause I knew it was a problem. So I started researching all over the place and I liked the fact that your neck guard does not have the Velcro behind, like we were talking about. All right.

Jamie:

Cause we all know the kids that tape the back when the Velcro goes.

Scott:

Totally.

Jamie:

So my question for you is obviously you don't have the issue of having to wash it all the time and the Velcro just goes over time. Right. And you have to buy a new one. How does, how does your fabric hold up in the washing machine? Cause us crazy hockey parents, our kids are skating five, seven times a week.

Jamie:

So those base layers are every week, sometimes two times a week in the wash, right? Does it shrink? Does it not shrink because of, you know, the fabric you guys are using or the combination of cut resistant and kind of poly you guys using. I'm just curious what the durability is like.

Andries:

Yeah. My team would say, if you follow the care instructions, however, I can tell you as owner of the company, my son happens to have like a thousand of the shirts.

Jamie:

Right. I'm sure. As he should.

Andries:

Three of the same ones that he's like superstitious about. So the irony is like he has, he could wear a new one every single night. He actually wears like one from a year and a half ago, almost every single game.

Scott:

That's so funny.

Andries:

It has been beaten up and we wash it on the hottest cycle possible. So we can stretch, see what that is. We've done lab tests. We've done wash tests. There's a piece of equipment that simulates like 10 domestic washes every cycle it runs.

Jamie:

Oh, wow.

Andries:

Ran that five times would equate it to 50 domestic washes. And then we did tests and, what it didn't shrink, which is great. But two, they're, they're all pretty strong before we end up selling. That's one of the reasons otherwise it definitely would, shrink. Right.

Andries:

But the other thing we noticed is that we had a 4% increase in cut resistance. And what the technicians are telling me is that the fiber is actually bind a little bit closer and tighter. Wash it? I think it's because we were putting it through such hot cycles. It was like literally like crunching up and getting even more protective.

Andries:

Because keep in mind that consistent test, if the fibers have a little bit of gap in it, it can fall into that grain and then it'll hit the copper and stop it. So, even on body that might actually protect you, it tends to fail a cut test on that equipment. So this one, I think gives them even a stronger advantage in that cut test, which is interesting because you bring that up. Anything that's like a Kevlar product, for example, uses an aramid fiber. Those do tend to degrade in the wash.

Andries:

Another thing that's not necessarily well known or obviously promoted by the products that are using it, but it is something that parents should pay attention to is that covers us and products using aramid fibers tend to have degradation in laundry cycles. And so that was something that we were like very conscious of when we first started. We actually started using a Kevlar product in our early prototypes and realized some of these issues with it, which is why we moved away from, from aramid fiber, which is, you know, what you find in Kevlar, for example.

Scott:

Well, so you mentioned copper, so there's, there's copper threading in?

Andries:

No. Copper's on the mandrel on the cut resistant. When blade goes through the fabric, it hits copper and pops the machine and then Got it. Test it. Yeah.

Andries:

No. We're not we're not we're not doing, what's that? That knee brace?

Scott:

Yeah. It's over with like Oh, they

Jamie:

cut Carpetone?

Andries:

Carpetone. Yeah. It's like, know, over 70 men's league, and we're gonna put some copper fibers in our our cut resistant gear.

Jamie:

That's right. Another selling feature. Yeah.

Scott:

That is so funny. So, you know, one of the other things that you were just talking about was sort of like, you know, you have the the coverage areas or, you know, you've gone over all that for those skaters, but I this might be a really stupid question because they wear so much goddamn equipment, but like goalies. Like in terms of like goalies and getting cut, are there any areas that they're particularly vulnerable to?

Andries:

Again, the red car thing. As soon as my partner, Adam started working with me, he came on about a year after I'd started the company as a customer. Actually, he had bought a few shirts for

Scott:

He's a goalie.

Andries:

And we short shipped him a shirt. So he came on customer support and I was on the other end of it. We were still very small at that time. I asked for some feedback and he's like, dude, you don't want my feedback? I know too much.

Andries:

I was like, no, no, no. Tell me the feedback. Like we're trying to better here. And he's like, we should do a zoom call if you want feedback. And we ended that zoom call two hours later with him coming on as my partner.

Andries:

That's awesome. All that being said, he started wearing the gear himself because he had bought that son. He started wearing the gear himself and quite literally, I think it was the next night he was in his men's league and, he was spread out flat, making a save and escape blade went over the wrist where he had his guard on. He's like, I've never worn a cut resistant product in my life. I wore this because I have to, I'm obligated to wear a product and figure out better.

Andries:

And sure enough after, I mean, he's, he's in his forties and been playing hockey since he was four. First time he ever had a blade go over any part of his body was like the next day. It was wild.

Jamie:

Wow.

Andries:

So he did not get cut. But I was like, he's like, Oh man, like goalies need to be wearing this way more. You know, they don't typically. And we actually get a lot of parents asking me, Hey, do you make a goalie shirt? And my answer is always like, it's such a small percent of the market.

Andries:

Yes, we will get there. It's obviously not the first segment that we go after for all the obvious reasons, but do you feel better knowing that as my partner is a goalie and our head of product and he wears it all the time as a goalie, it's not like the shirt fundamentally needs to do anything different. You can just start adding some of the goalie features like some padding and some impact stuff, you know, a few of the other components, but that's, I would say nice to have, you can always add that stuff to this product as well over it. So, we'll, we'll get there, but yeah, I mean, it's definitely something goalies need to be thinking about. Personally, I think it's probably more a risk thing than a neck.

Andries:

Although I will say I have quite a few goalie neck laceration videos and pictures that have been sent You to know, a player goes down, skating, trying to come in, make a move at the end, falls down, light goes up in the air, goalies down, trying to make the save, cover the five hole and boom, skate blade hits here. Yeah. So it happens. It's it's it's again, it's not like this stuff is broadcasted on TV for everyone to know every day. I wish it was, at least for a period of time.

Andries:

So it's definitely something goal is you to be thinking about.

Scott:

And sorry, James, just one last thing about the others, other folks that you'll find on the ice officials. Do they have any, like, do they have a protocol in terms of like cut resistance? Is that something like, how do they approach it? And clearly they've got like different, you know, attire on. So what was it like for officials?

Andries:

Yes, they do. So so one 18, right? Was at any official 18 is still governed by USA Hockey's U18 requirements. Okay. And then, there's certainly, so for example, I mentioned that we did a deal with The U S sorry, with USA hockey, but also with PWHL.

Andries:

And our first entrance into the league is all of the officials. So PWHL has all the officials wearing neck laceration protection. And then from what we're told this year is voluntary. We are providing every team, of their cut resistant products. You won't see it on a 100% of the players, I assume.

Andries:

But next year will be required for all players, which will be, you know, tightened gear. So they actually led with reps and then they're going to, to, to players required second. And then, you know, as you mentioned, James, the, the USA hockey does require all officials on eyes under 18. We're seeing a lot of referees voluntary do it. Mean, you should be doing

Jamie:

What could

Andries:

it hurt?

Scott:

I mean, right.

Jamie:

I mean, safety. I mean, listen, they get in collisions with players for sure. Yeah.

Andries:

And like we we've had some fun with it. We made a, officials shirt. We made both a linesman and a ref version and black

Jamie:

and white striped.

Andries:

One's got an orange T one's got the white T and stripes. Yeah. I mean, that's, that was, you know, I know we talked about this a little earlier, but that was really the thing that we leaned into the most was like, once you get past being the safest shirt and all the innovation and tech,

Jamie:

let's have

Andries:

some fun with it. And because the whole product sublimated, you can quite literally do anything. So we do, we do tons of custom team. I mean, I happened to have this one sitting here. This is Midfair Midfair fields.

Scott:

Sure. Yeah.

Andries:

It's three different shirts with us. We did a, an alternate with like neon glow around it, all kinds of cool stuff. And you can see the back of the collar here, how this hinges and stretches. This is somewhat patented technology we have here. So yeah, I mean, these, you can do all different kinds of stuff, match your uniforms.

Andries:

Adam's a crazy savant artist. So he comes up with the coolest artwork and prints and designs.

Jamie:

I saw you guys have a custom spot for teams on the website. That was very cool.

Andries:

Yeah. There's a showcase there that's got some of the coolest.

Jamie:

I saw. There is some very cool stuff there. Yeah. Yeah. You

Andries:

should see The USA hockey ones we have that are gonna come out pretty soon. We just said

Jamie:

For the Olympics you need?

Andries:

We said all the player wants to world junior. So they're up in Duluth.

Jamie:

Okay. I hate you.

Andries:

We just signed, James Hagans.

Scott:

Oh yeah. Sure. Sick.

Andries:

Come on as a, as an equity based partner, which is amazing. Yeah. And, so we did our shoot with him on Friday. You'll start to see some of that come out through the materials, but we have a big activation of juniors between him and USA hockey. Both those deals give us the right licensing to make the most of that event.

Andries:

We're doing that in a big way. And then we'll do a limited capsule on our site. That's for retail availability for it's got kind of a hidden flag throughout the whole thing. Some really cool America stuff.

Scott:

And then

Andries:

also running my alley. Olympics as well.

Jamie:

Definitely. So I have a crazy story for you last year. So last year, my kid was 12 and, you know, he's like a little guy. So he's what, like four to five foot, you know, you know, just under five feet. And he's going in the bench and, know, they have to be cool and they have to jump over the boards.

Jamie:

Right? So Dom, he's going for a change coming to the bench and he jumps over the boards and he swings his leg. And can I just tell you, he caught his buddy right here and thank God he was far enough away from him? So you saw a red line, but if he was any closer or he swung his leg any harder, that would have been God awful. I mean, it was right here.

Jamie:

I mean, it was one of the scary the father showed me after that. Was like, shit, like Dominic, don't ever do that again. But they were so they're so small that when Dom threw his leg over, that's where Chris's neck was. Right. So I, this happens all the time.

Jamie:

Again, you must see this stuff every day.

Andries:

The statistics are one point four percent of hockey players. Was that hospital visitation data. And you put that up against total players in the game. One point four percent of players. Again, this is 10 ago data, at that time will suffer a laceration in their hockey career, which you have to assume is something less than eighteen years.

Andries:

So it's like over a ten year horizon, two percent of players almost. So when you look at a 100 kids on the ice, trying out for a team, you go like, okay, two kids on the ice at some point in their hockey career will have a serious laceration. That is wild.

Scott:

Yeah. Especially because of the severity can be so massive.

Andries:

It can be fatal. It's just, it just is what it is.

Jamie:

I remember two years ago, Scott up here, I think it's funny, Andries. I think a kid from Connecticut, want to say his name is Tanner. You know, they did sticks for Tanner. The kid, I think got cut and died on the ice and

Andries:

that was Teddy Falcon. That was at Brunswick.

Jamie:

Oh, sticks for Teddy. Right. So you mentioned him earlier,

Andries:

Luke's player playing at Brunswick. And that

Jamie:

was a couple of years ago.

Andries:

His parents, that was literally what compelled me to do this. And then Adam Johnson was such high visibility that that pushed the rolling mandates. But look, Europe has had mandates for this for decades, across all different levels of play, even at the pro level. And so The U S has been very slow to do it for obvious reasons, but you know, now it's, now it's everywhere in NHL is next year, you know, Rod Pazma and NHLPA has been doing a ton of work. I mean, I, it feels like for many years pushing this through way before USA hockey did anything way before even Adam Johnson, I think he was on this.

Andries:

He's been a big believer of it and has worked closely with us to help us get the NHL approval that we needed. And so it was great to see that collective bargaining agreement, you know, come out in the beginning of the year and announced, or was it maybe in June, whatever, and announced for twenty six, twenty seven seasons. Yeah, we're, we're seeing, I think there's something around 80 players in the NHL that wear neck protection. You don't, doesn't feel like it when you watch on TV and they're maybe not your first or second, second line guys that get the most TV time, but it's out there. If you're, if, if you're in my business, you're looking for it.

Andries:

I see it. And I, you know, I talked to wide men about this all the time because a lot of them are, you know, his buddies that are still actively playing and some of them are the ones that wear it. And I, and I'm always like, Hey man, like they don't have to wear it. What are they wearing it for? And, you know, he tells me it's, you know, the, it's a family decision.

Andries:

Kids, the wife, you know, sure. Why not? You know, trying to be responsible and I'm like, okay, well, that's amazing. But do they know that the neck card that they're wearing is it protecting them when that's literally the reason they're wearing it? They're not wearing it for any other reason.

Andries:

Right. Yeah. Could you call that dude right now? Just text him. It happens to get us, you know, some product placement to these guys and it's a slow learning curve there, but, you know, just telling the story objectively, here's the lab data.

Andries:

Here's what this means. You know, I've, I've, I have this vision of doing a whole content series. You know, I used to watch the myth busters, you know, years ago. I don't even know if discovery channels a thing anymore, but, it's a

Scott:

good question. It still is.

Andries:

Somewhere. Right. YouTube channel.

Jamie:

Some streaming like, yeah.

Andries:

And so I'm like, we should do like a mythbusters type series. Like all the dads, you know, our age would like, mom would love it. Cause we used to watch this, we would get it. Or bill Nye kind of thing. And then just take household items and do cut tests.

Andries:

Cause I, we, we have a TDM machine, at our lab, right? It's not, not the cheapest thing that anyone would have at their house, but obviously in our visit, we have one. So I started putting things on there. Like I'll put blue tarp, I'll put leather glove, I'll put denim jeans, cotton t shirt, like baseball hat, whatever. You'd be surprised how many household items I just mentioned have more than double the cut resistance

Jamie:

of the mass of our products out there. Remember

Andries:

the other guys already to some eight, three, and they advertise a three on their hang tag. Like that's like, like saw

Jamie:

that on their website too. I'm like, would you guys do it? If you, cause if you know the scale it's so Yeah.

Andries:

Nobody has the ability to contextualize that. They're like, Oh, A3 cut resistant. That sounds great. I'm like, ma'am, the jeans you're wearing, cut a piece off and wrap it around your kid's neck. You're actually safer.

Andries:

And then you get to like leather gloves. That's A6, right? Blue tarp that you put on your roof, which down here in Florida, they're always doing because everyone's that's an A6

Jamie:

and above is technically the safer version. Most mass market stuff is A6 and below.

Andries:

Yeah. They're A3 or below.

Jamie:

Right. Even worse. Right.

Andries:

Yeah. Yeah. A six is what the lab proved you needed to stop escape blade at what they would call like

Jamie:

at a certain amount of grams per pressure. And

Andries:

above, you're probably at an A six and then NHL, like, I mean, A7, A8, A9, like, why would you not be at that level?

Jamie:

You know, again, that's one of the reasons why I started and kind of found you guys as I was researching, you know, base layer companies. I was shocked to see what shocked Doctor. CCM Bauer. I mean, Warroad is better than those, but it's still not, you know, I mean, it's shocking how many companies make a product that's A6 and higher. I shocked.

Andries:

Guys that have the high cut resistance like cottage industry businesses. Like we know a few of them, there there's a guy up in Canada that makes an awesome product. It's not, it looks like all the others. I mean, that's one of the fundamental problems that you just can't tell what products, what logos, but putting that aside, he has a very high level of co resistance in it. He just doesn't have brand.

Andries:

Right. And so, you know, I'm fortunate enough to have, you know, as I mentioned, the Under Armour guys that under armor from nothing to everything. And we're part of that whole ride that they know what it means to, you know, build the brand, protect this house and dry. I mean, Armour was the shit for so long. You know, they've lost their way a little bit, but maybe it's when these guys left, but they've identified and we've seen this white space in the hockey world.

Andries:

And, you know, my partner, Adam says this all the time. He's like, Hey, my son, it was a hockey camp last summer. It's, you know, Maryland eight ninety five degrees. And the condenser went out and the rink was a puddle

Jamie:

of water.

Andries:

It's like, so all the hockey kids are in the parking lot and, know, he he's this apparel guy for decades and decades. So he, there's not a single garment. Someone wears it. He's like, that's the brand it was made there. It was this, the reason that, know, he's like that.

Andries:

He calls me. He's like, why is every single hockey kid in the driveway, in the parking lot wearing baseball lifestyle one on one shorts? He's like, this is a hockey camp, not a baseball camp. There's no hockey brand that any of these kids care about. He's like, this is all white space opportunity.

Andries:

He's like, this isn't just about our current resistance. This is building a cultural movement, if you will, that is going to fill this gap where hockey players don't have an authenticator. They can't showcase that they're a hockey guy when they're anywhere else other than on the ice, because they're not walking around wearing a Bauer hat. They're not wearing a CCM t shirt. That's like the dads.

Andries:

That's like grandpa's at the rink. Like it was like a 75 year old dude wearing a Bauer hoodie. And you're like, that makes sense. Like, you know, I'm surprised he doesn't have graph skates and

Scott:

it does.

Andries:

On. Right. So all that being said, we've started, we rolled out this rinkwear collection. We've done some hoodies. I mean, this is the one you're talking about.

Andries:

We did tees we've done, what Adam calls baseball lifestyle one on one shorts done. Really how we

Jamie:

that from.

Andries:

Yeah. Super nice ones. Yes. Correct. Really nice.

Andries:

I mean, I actually. I poo pooed the mesh shorts forever. I'm like, dude, those are so silly. And then, we got the shorts in and I put them on. Was like, these are like, shit.

Andries:

They're pretty nice. I'm now wearing them around. People have already taken like 16. But, but we've seen is that we now have the ability to try to, you know, help these players, not just have the identity from a colorful base layer, but also be authenticated as a hockey player when they're out in the street, you know, here in Florida wearing the shorts or in Maryland for a month of the year wearing the shorts or never wearing the shorts. And and so we really started to figure out like, where does Titan go in the next chapter?

Andries:

Obviously we're laser focused on this cut resistant part, getting leggings out. We'll move into socks at some point. I'm sure, we've done a little bit R and D there. But then, you know, it's really also like, do we bring awareness to what we do in the cut resistance space? Maybe through a more approachable price point of, you know, a $30 t shirt and hats and trying to build a bit of a cultural brand within the hockey space.

Andries:

It's, it's, it's crazy. We launched it about three weeks ago and it's about a third of our total sales. We do no marketing around the rink where obviously we're getting people coming to our site for cut resistant and then it's an easy add on. So, and it's Christmas time, so

Scott:

I, I mean, we were just looking at the website earlier and just like hats off, like totally, you're, you're definitely onto something. The, the gear looks great. The swag is awesome.

Andries:

Yeah. Yeah. You gotta before they swoop in and, and, and move into the hockey space, which they already kind of are. So

Jamie:

the Christmas, the Christmas, like ugly sweater is like, it's like an awesome base layer. The red one you guys have for Christmas. It's awesome. Yeah. Yeah.

Jamie:

Is.

Scott:

It's awesome.

Jamie:

Miami one's to the left, right? The Miami one. Yeah. Oh, it is the Miami one.

Andries:

We did that one for the, that's a winter classic special.

Scott:

Oh, nice.

Andries:

Got the Panthers and the Rangers. I was just watching a show earlier today about it and they're doing it with the roof open at the Marlins. Yeah. Why? I don't know how it's like 90 degrees right now.

Jamie:

Nancy and I were talking about that. My wife and I were talking about that. We're like, how's that going to work?

Andries:

I was certain they were closing the dome. I could give a quick twenty second story on that. I was flying back from a work trip when I was in my previous career and I was like, oh man, what am I doing with AJ? This is like four, three, four years ago. I was like, just looked up Marlin's tickets before I landed.

Andries:

Oh, they're cheap, whatever, obviously. And, and so it's like a 1PM game. It's like 96 degrees out. I'm like, dude, we're going to Marlins game. I'm like, it's not a Panthers game.

Andries:

Don't put on, you know, sweatpants, like put on your gym shorts and like a tank top, basically drive down to the Marlin Stadium. Walk in. Might be 40 degrees in here. I go, this is like 10 times colder than a panthers game. So I'm just sitting there with Marlin's jacket on.

Jamie:

He went and bought them?

Andries:

Of course, I think we threw away like

Jamie:

on the

Andries:

way out. Out. Like, we're never gonna wear these things. We would've donated them to someone. I don't know what we did, but I've never seen That's them funny.

Andries:

And so I was like, oh, Everyone's like, oh, you're gonna do the winter classic in Florida. I'm like, dude, the Marlin Stadium, when they close the roof, it's the coldest hot season you've ever seen in

Jamie:

your It's a entire me locker. Yeah.

Andries:

I'm mind blown to hear that they've now figured out some way to make ice, you know, work outside. So

Jamie:

When that when they first announced that, I was curious how they were gonna do that. I'm still curious to see what that

Andries:

Maybe it's like dry ice. It's gotta

Jamie:

be something. Right? I mean, that

Andries:

that's a spectacle. Then you need, like, like, free

Scott:

Oh burn yeah. Right.

Andries:

That's our new product line. That's right. Exactly. Dry ice protection. Yeah.

Jamie:

That's right.

Scott:

That's unreal.

Jamie:

Andries, where just tell everybody where they find you. I know we've kept, we've kept you for an hour so far. We really appreciate you.

Andries:

I could talk co resistant hockey for while. So you can find us in store at couple of Shields locations in Minnesota. We're in Eden Prairie and St. Cloud. Hockey's not in every one of their 34 doors.

Andries:

So we're in those areas. We're in monkey sports, all eight doors that they're in across the country and online. And then obviously on our website, you can find everything where we have limited product in those retail environments, but if you want to see it and touch it, and there were in a few specialty retailers throughout the country, East coast hockey supply and kind of the Maryland area. We're in, Crosscheck customs and a few others in the Connecticut area. And then a bunch down here in Florida

Jamie:

And Titan Battlegear is the name of the website.

Andries:

That's Yeah, where we we're pretty good SEO. So if you just start typing Titan, no question about it. Podcast, it'll probably complete it for you.

Jamie:

Yes, I agree. It's very easy to find. Listen, man. Thank you so much for coming on.

Scott:

If you're, when you come up to the North Bergen location, reach out to us. Oh, yeah. We'd be happy to say hello. I'm

Andries:

gonna, I'm gonna be there probably at least once a month and then my, my partners will be there more often and we'll get you guys a code for your listeners and subscribers. Oh, that'd be amazing. Also get some savings on the site. We'll one hook you guys up with that as well. So we'll, I'll have Jenna follow-up with all that for you guys.

Scott:

Unreal. Thank you so much. Super educational.

Andries:

Yeah, of course. Anytime you got any questions on the space, we're covers as nerds at this point. Sure. Nice, man.

Scott:

Thanks for

Andries:

coming on. Was awesome. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thanks guys.

Andries:

Right. See you. Bye.

Scott:

All right, everybody. Welcome back from

Jamie:

okay then. What? Okay then.

Scott:

Now we're back?

Andries:

Yeah. Yeah, we're back from

Jamie:

Here we go. Here we are. Welcome back. We don't play around.

Scott:

No, we don't.

Jamie:

Can I mention one thing, by the way? We had somebody write in. You know

Scott:

what just happened? Sorry. You cut me off.

Jamie:

I don't do that. I don't know what you're talking about.

Scott:

Not even. Okay. Go ahead. What?

Jamie:

I don't do that.

Scott:

Just just welcome back, everyone.

Scott:

Okay. So what? So can I can

Jamie:

I actually we had a I didn't I didn't mean to cut you off? Okay, fine. I did mean to cut you off because I wanted to throw this in there because I don't know where else to sneak it

Scott:

in. You don't know where else

Jamie:

we have

Scott:

we have someone else's.

Jamie:

Are we so x rated today? Holy shit, man. This episodes off. Anyway, they going to demonetize us for this?

Scott:

There's only none. It's just suggested. I'm joking. Don't know if I'm demonetizing.

Jamie:

You know what they do? Would you really give a shit?

Scott:

Who's they in that sense? You do. Oh, no. What do you mean?

Jamie:

Anyway, so alright. So so we we had somebody we had a a a listener write in, he was mentioning how don't fuck with Howie. Don't mess with Howie. Don't mess with Howie's head. Yes.

Jamie:

Yes. Mentioning what? So he mentioned the fact that that the game of ice hockey is really good for things like hockey fights cancer. You know? I know it's such a random thing but I needed to bring it up because he's right.

Jamie:

He private messaged us and was saying how the game is great for that type of stuff. Like Hockey Fights Cancer does a really nice job. So, I wanted to call that out to people.

Scott:

Doctor. Which is bringing awareness to Correct. Hockey Fights Cancer, the

Jamie:

does a really good job of the Hockey Fights Cancer, you know, because everybody knows somebody that is fighting cancer, has cancer, has remission from cancer, whatever it is, you know. So, I must say hockey does a really good job of that, like he was right to call it out. So, wanted to shout that out on the podcast, because he's right, he's 100%

Andries:

right.

Scott:

You know, oftentimes you'll see teams that are like, you know, during Fundraisers. Well, or they're wearing like all pink laces or using pink tape or have pink socks. You know, there's definitely no, you're 100% right.

Jamie:

Yeah. So, I wanted to call that. I want to say it was Cameron. So, Cameron, good on you for putting that in front Appreciate of

Scott:

it. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

Jamie:

Yeah. You want to talk about how Otto's doing right now? Because Otto's at a tourney.

Scott:

He's at a tourney.

Jamie:

In Mass, not Mass. Oh, Boston, not Boston.

Scott:

Yeah, exactly.

Jamie:

Got it.

Scott:

Right. Boston, not Boston. Got it. Yeah. I couldn't watch the game because it was at St.

Scott:

Mark's Prep School and No live barn. No live barn, no Black Bear, no

Jamie:

Yeah. Those prep schools don't have they don't have cameras.

Scott:

Or if they do, they're not like they're on their own network or they I don't I don't know.

Jamie:

I don't think they have anything. Like Princeton Day down in Princeton does not have.

Scott:

Why would they not at this in this day and age?

Jamie:

Meanwhile, can I just tell you the Princeton Day rink

Scott:

Yeah?

Scott:

Is insane. Bananas? Dude, the

Jamie:

whole athletic facility you walk in. Haven't been. It's pretty impressive. You never played down there?

Scott:

No. You mean like me when I was a kid or Otto?

Jamie:

No, Otto. Dom's been there a couple of times. We've been down in Princeton

Scott:

area, we haven't been in that facility.

Jamie:

Princeton Tigers play around. They play out of there and they play out of Hobie Baker, obviously, on the Princeton campus.

Scott:

Yeah.

Jamie:

But I think an overflow rink for them is is Princeton Day.

Scott:

Oh, yeah. No, I've never been there. Really nice. Yeah, I'm sure. I mean, that whole area, that campus is is beautiful down there.

Jamie:

Really nice.

Scott:

Yeah, no doubt.

Jamie:

But so tell how how did Otto do this morning?

Scott:

They won. They did? Yep. Good.

Jamie:

And Otto scored a goal?

Scott:

He did.

Jamie:

He said

Scott:

it was filthy.

Jamie:

He said it was filthy.

Scott:

Yes. It's it's unclear how

Jamie:

Maybe a parent has a video in it.

Scott:

Phone call.

Jamie:

Oh, hello Otto.

Scott:

It's not Otto.

Jamie:

I know. But he did he did he had a good game?

Scott:

I I think so. I don't know. I got conflicting reports on his overall effort level.

Jamie:

Well, you got reports from your wife.

Scott:

Yeah. And then I got reports from him.

Jamie:

Oh, she said one that he said the other? Wow. Shockless. Exactly something that Nancy and Dominic would do.

Scott:

Yeah.

Jamie:

So Nancy comes up, she's like, He was great. What was it was like Mike Ruzione said? He's like, My wife would come on and be like, He had three hits. So I called him, I'm like, Hey Paul, you had three hits. And he's like, I flew out to center, I grabbed that to shore and I flew out the right field.

Jamie:

Same idea. It comes up. She's like, Changi, I thought he was really good. She's like, he did a lot of passes. He had some shots.

Jamie:

I'm like, Tom, get a bunch of shots like that. Not him hit the net.

Scott:

Right. Exactly. Know. Listen, I listen. I'm I didn't see the game.

Scott:

Ultimately they won auto city, nice goal, a bunch of, they won, I don't know, maybe it was like five, four ultimately, but it sounded like they're off to a good start. Hopefully that continues. They haven't had the best of luck in, like, certainly not in the last tournament or like our showcases. Like we, it was like we win, we win one and then we lose the rest type of thing. But, hopefully that they'll carry that forward.

Scott:

Yeah. It sounded like, he played well. So I, you know,

Jamie:

all right, good. And he's

Scott:

got another game this afternoon, another game this afternoon. And then

Jamie:

they don't have that one.

Scott:

I have to double check. They're playing at new England sports center.

Jamie:

Oh, nice. Yeah. 10 rings. Yeah. Love that place.

Scott:

Yeah. They're going to be over there.

Jamie:

Great pro shop.

Scott:

Yeah. He needs to get a skate sharpened actually. Does he? They're going there. Yeah.

Scott:

So anyway, yeah, thanks for asking. I really don't know. Got it. How well things are going other than that they won. Okay, got it.

Scott:

How about how about your playoff land?

Jamie:

Dammers got so when you and I are done here, I'm gonna go over to the rink and I'm gonna meet Nancy over there. And yeah, we have the first playoff game. We have one today, two tomorrow. And then depending on how we do, we play Monday if we do well.

Scott:

And what what what's the outlook you think you're looking good to carry on?

Jamie:

We play the Or wildcard team at, like, 04:50 today.

Scott:

Okay.

Jamie:

So I want to say they're from Colorado.

Scott:

Seriously? Yeah.

Jamie:

No. Yeah. Littleton, Colorado. Way. Swear to God.

Jamie:

Why they're in the fucking AHF is beyond me, but they are.

Scott:

Blows for them.

Jamie:

Dude, you're not kidding. I think they only have to go a week and a half to figure it out too.

Scott:

Why would they even fucking

Jamie:

They're like, oh, by the way, you need to be in New Jersey in like a week and a half.

Andries:

Why?

Jamie:

Or in like eight days.

Scott:

Why would they even Why

Jamie:

are they in the AHF in fucking Colorado? I would think that I would think the Colorado is like,

Andries:

so that's why

Scott:

I'm sure.

Jamie:

Well, that sucks for them. You know?

Scott:

I mean, why else would you want to be? Just like, you you look at the map, the age,

Jamie:

there's not enough hockey out there. Like, why would you come out here to even for fucking playoffs? They don't come out of here. They don't come out here for for showcases. I don't

Scott:

think they possibly only two different leagues, dude. I don't think so.

Jamie:

I'm pretty sure they're an AHF team,

Scott:

which is it doesn't make any sense.

Jamie:

No, it doesn't. A whole AHF doesn't make sense,

Scott:

so I'm not surprised. Well, either way. Okay. So you're playing a team from Colorado.

Jamie:

Are playing

Scott:

a team from Colorado. Idea how good they're How could you even know how good they are?

Jamie:

I mean, did somebody buy hockey games? Somebody said they're like, I don't look at this shit because I don't care. But somebody said they're like twenty and fourteen. So they're twenty and fourteen. Okay.

Jamie:

20 wins, 14 losses. So they're decent.

Scott:

But you don't even know who they play.

Jamie:

I'm I have no idea who they play because who the fuck knows teams down in Colorado? And I have not looked on my hockey rink. Just like I said, I don't care. Right.

Scott:

Well, hopefully there'll be a

Jamie:

Listen, they're wild they're a wildcard team, so they're they're a last in type situation, you know,

Scott:

you just throw the table. I mistook that for part of the chair.

Jamie:

Got it. Yeah. So and then we're playing somebody else tomorrow morning. And then if we win those two games, the Sunday evening game should be a doozy. Who are playing tomorrow morning?

Jamie:

Haverford, Haverford, Hawks.

Scott:

Haverford, Hawks. Okay.

Jamie:

Do you know where they're from?

Scott:

Haverford. Do you know what it is? It's near here.

Jamie:

I don't, I actually have no idea. That's why I'm asking you. I'm getting, I'm going to guess Pennsylvania. Not sure if that's correct.

Scott:

Or Upstate New York.

Jamie:

Suppose, You know? So wherever they are, we're playing them. Good. That's tomorrow morning. And then we have Ashburn Extreme.

Jamie:

That's going to be a doozy.

Scott:

And you know that for sure. Yes. Got it.

Jamie:

That like you play, you know, you play group.

Scott:

If they, let's just say,

Jamie:

and one comes out of the

Scott:

group, part of my yard, but they, they, they could end up, you could end up playing them and they could be, they could, you could still lose to them and still advance if they don't do well previously.

Jamie:

Correct.

Scott:

Right. Okay.

Scott:

So, know,

Jamie:

yes, yes. I'm pretty sure if like we both go two and one, there's a, but they would have a head to head over us. Listen, if we beat them, that's all the story. But if, if, if they beat us, I would assume they would have a head to head over us. I don't think they're going to lose the game before they play.

Jamie:

What time is that game? Five something.

Scott:

I wonder what time a Mensley game is. Oh yeah. In the same building. Same building. How nice is that that you don't have to travel like far?

Jamie:

Don't have to to Colorado. Well,

Scott:

yeah, but even still, mean, that's, that's

Jamie:

listen to aspirin team from North Carolina.

Scott:

I, again, also ridiculous. But all I'm saying is that like a lot of times it's like a, you know, at least an hour

Andries:

and a

Jamie:

half to hour drive. Was expecting to go somewhere. This would tell

Scott:

situation somewhere. So that's a

Jamie:

great dude. Yeah. So we'll see. We'll see how goes. How's how's Dom feeling?

Jamie:

I think good. He was actually sick all week.

Scott:

Yeah. Is he healthy? Ish. Healthy enough? Ish.

Scott:

80%. Not even really threw up yesterday. Really? We're going

Jamie:

to find out. Had like one on three fever, like all week only did two days of school. He was out Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. Dominic was out. Thank God we didn't have games last weekend because Dom was down with a one on three fever Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday.

Scott:

Wednesday. Wednesday. I'm to have a 103

Jamie:

fever. Well, I went from a 103 to a 102 to a 101.

Scott:

So it of

Jamie:

rolled itself backwards. Yeah. Which is fine, but you know, so it was fine. But yeah, it knocked him down for five days. And then yesterday he went back to school Thursday, went back to school yesterday and then we, we, Nancy and I were running errands like yesterday evening, early evening.

Jamie:

And we came home. He's like, threw up like what sucks. Yeah. So he's ish. Two Wait, weeks

Scott:

was it last weekend? I'm okay. Glad he was feeling better. Hopefully he's, able to, to contribute in ways that,

Jamie:

fingers crossed.

Scott:

Yeah. But so, one of all his teammates, I think it was last weekend, whatever it could be two weekends ago. Wasn't feeling well. I, you know, he was playing, he was under the weather and, he threw up in his fishbowl.

Jamie:

Oh my God.

Scott:

Yeah.

Jamie:

Dude, if that is not the number one reason to never wear a fucking fishbowl, he fucking puked in his fishbowl.

Scott:

So so I I didn't see it, but Holy fucking gross. So I see, I see him. I see the kid coming back on the ice. And at this point, you know, it was more common when they were like younger where they like, you know, have to get off to use the bathroom. My God, dude.

Scott:

So the kid's coming back on the ice, I'm like, oh dude had to piss or whatever. He had to clean his fucking fishbowl. Yeah.

Jamie:

That's fucking gross. Like I am, I'm getting nauseous just thinking about that. That's fucking disgusting.

Scott:

No, look, I don't know. Listen, I don't know if like, you know, clearly there's large holes down by like the chin strap in the mouth, but like, I don't know if it like, you know, I mean, it must've gotten all over the place. It's not disgusting.

Jamie:

You want to hear a fucked up story? I got to find we're for telling throw up stories. Here we go. So it's very similar to that. It actually reminded me of what you just said.

Jamie:

Okay. That is gross as throwing up at a fishbowl, but it's, it's not far off. Meanwhile, you got some good stories recently. Can I tell you? I dropped my phone down the side of my seat yesterday between the seat and the center console, and don't think I wasn't looking for a fucking hyperdermic needle down there.

Jamie:

Why would

Scott:

you? Why would there be

Jamie:

one there wouldn't be? But when I did it, I glanced over and I was like, I gave it like, like a second take.

Scott:

So a dad came up to me and he's like, oh, so, you know,

Jamie:

he listened to the podcast.

Scott:

And then I said, I said, I said, watch this. And Otto was standing right over there. I said, yo, Otto, what happened on the way home from Buffalo when I stuck my hand in between the seats of the car and he goes, Oh, Oh yeah. When that needle was like hanging out of your finger. Dad.

Jamie:

I'm just glad you're still here with us. Who else? We would never have a Crazy Hockey Dads Podcast.

Scott:

No. Well, maybe you would. Maybe, but it wouldn't be as good. Probably not.

Jamie:

Yeah. So, all right. So here's my throw off story again. Sorry, folks, but talking puke, we're talking puke. So when Dominic was like, I don't

Scott:

know, six. Yeah, we

Jamie:

go over to my mother's house and we were there for like Sunday night dinner or something like that. And Dominic wasn't feeling well. So she's, but you want go upstairs and lay on my bed. So Dominic went upstairs, laid on the bed and he had like, what a, like a towel from my, pulled out a towel from my mother's bathroom. Yeah.

Jamie:

He cold. So he threw it on himself, jumped on the bed. Sure. Okay. Yeah.

Jamie:

Obviously was getting sick. Right. So so we wanted to believe in like an hour later, he didn't look good. So we're like, you know what, we're going go. And it was like, it was Sunday evening.

Jamie:

I'll call it like 06:30, seven, something like that. So he's like, Nana, can I take the towel with me? Cause he didn't feel well. Right. And he was still in the car seat.

Jamie:

He was still in the, the, like not like the, not like the toddler car seat, the small one. You know what mean?

Scott:

It's

Jamie:

a smaller car seat, not the big one that looks like a rocket ship.

Scott:

Okay. He's in a car

Jamie:

seat. He's in a car seat. Right. So I remember he's in, he's sitting behind Nancy was driving. I was in the driver's seat.

Jamie:

Was in the passenger seat. So she's driving me in the passenger seat and he has the towel like he's so he's sitting and you know how you're like rocked back a little bit. Yeah. And like, so if you drop something, it falls in your lap. Yeah.

Jamie:

Okay. So he had the towel over his head. Yeah. Okay. In his car seat, like one of those like $400 car seats from like Britax.

Jamie:

Is that what it was for? Is that right? I don't know. Wow. If I'm read about that, I'm depressed.

Jamie:

So $4 car seat and all of sudden you hear it's got a towel over his head and draped down here. And because the towel was over his head, everything. It kept everything right there and in his goddamn lap. Yes. So what we did was I'm like, Nancy, I'm like, what the fuck do we do now?

Jamie:

This was the second time he puked in this car seat.

Scott:

That's when you, I mean, everything comes out of the car, everything gets washed, everything gets a hose down.

Jamie:

So we did that once, but we noticed that you really don't get it all out of like the

Scott:

straps, the

Jamie:

straps, Velcro, you know what I mean? So like we'd already cleaned this hose, this thing down once. And so what we did was is so so Luca was still in a car seat as well. Just the bigger version. So we they said, Jamie, like, we got to stop.

Jamie:

I need to get, like, Lysol wipes.

Andries:

How can you do with the smell? Bro,

Jamie:

the windows were open. It was pretty gross. Gross. I remember it was like it was like winter ish time. So I remember we stopped at like a Walgreens.

Jamie:

Okay. One in Ramsey on Franklin Turnbike. Okay. Walgreens, CVS, whatever it was. And Nancy went in to get like paper towels and Lysol wipes and like that type of shit.

Jamie:

We literally took all his clothes off. I took the car seat out of the I looked at Nancy. I go, are we gonna clean this thing again? Was Threw it in the garbage? I threw it in the fucking dumpster.

Jamie:

I threw in the dumpster behind Walgreens. And now we're down one car seat. So what we did is we cleaned Dominic. We put him in Lucas car seat and Nancy sat in the back in the third row holding Luca. Yeah, dude.

Jamie:

I we just 86 to $4 car seat like it was enough.

Scott:

But wait, cause it was

Jamie:

because it was riddled with puke for the second time.

Scott:

Listen. Yeah. I mean, throw up is, is can be pretty gnarly, pretty gnarly,

Jamie:

but throwing up in a fishbowl. That's gross. Like, it's it that's pretty gross. At least, like, Dominic could take the towel off of his head and there wasn't, like, puke shot back at him. Like, dude, like, that had to have shot back at him.

Jamie:

Sorry, folks. If you're, like, driving, please don't throw up in the car or wherever you are, wherever you listen to this podcast, but Jesus dude puking his fishbowl.

Scott:

That's that. I mean, I didn't see it happen, but that's what I was told.

Jamie:

Yikes. Gross. Yeah. Gross is right.

Scott:

Anyway,

Jamie:

Shall we end it on that note?

Scott:

Listen, I don't want to do that because God forbid I wrapped it up too quickly.

Jamie:

Oh, Mr. Rizzioni. Thanks so much for coming. I know Jamie worked really hard to get you on here. It was probably the most difficult guest that he's had to get to date.

Jamie:

But thanks so much for coming. I know we didn't talk about the Gold Medal game, but hey, listen, thanks so much for coming, Mike. You've been a gem and, we'll see you soon. Enjoy the Peloton.

Scott:

And don't be an asshole.

Jamie:

And don't be an asshole. Well said. Well said. All right, homeboy. Yeah.

Jamie:

This is fun.

Scott:

Yes, sir.

Jamie:

This is fun. Episode 54 in the books. We have a lot

Scott:

of really cool stuff coming. Always cool

Jamie:

stuff coming, but it keeps getting cooler, which is pretty wild.

Scott:

No, that's great.

Jamie:

So please, like subscribe, share, send our Instagram out, send our our episodes out to people that you think, you know, would like it. And please, somebody leave us a review. The reviews are impossible to get. So if you like what you hear, go leave us a review. And thank you so much for watching.

Jamie:

We couldn't do this without you, and we'll see you in episode 55.

Scott:

Thank you, everyone.

Jamie:

Alright, homeboy. Alright. See you. Peace.