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TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays from 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with full episodes posted to Spotify immediately after airing.
Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” TBPN has interviewed Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella. Diet TBPN delivers the best moments from each episode in under 30 minutes.
Gavin Baker, welcome to the show. How are you doing? Doing
Speaker 2:great, man. How are you guys?
Speaker 1:Fantastically. Right? SpaceX IPO. It seems like everything went just flawlessly to a tee, like, to the point where it wasn't even dramatic.
Speaker 3:Round of applause for the banker.
Speaker 1:The banker. It's, like, 2020% pop almost to a tee. Yeah. What what I mean by that is, like, is, like, it would have been more dramatic if it had, like, popped up 70% and then went down 30 and then went up 50, and it was drama. But it was just, like, perfect execution from start to finish.
Speaker 1:Was that how you interpreted it?
Speaker 2:I thought Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley did a very good job.
Speaker 1:Yeah. What do you think the market is looking for SpaceX next? Is it all eyes on the first earnings report? Like, where do we go from here? Because there's so much of the SpaceX story pre IPO that was a decade out, five years out, two years out.
Speaker 1:But is the market going to be processing quarter by quarter plays like a like many other companies?
Speaker 2:Well, I think the market is always you know, quarters matter.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, the runners on x, you know, it's like they're these reply people on x for any topic or experts. Yeah. But somebody once told me a marathon is twenty six one mile runs. Yeah. And so, you know, and then all the runners were like, no, that's not true at all.
Speaker 2:Right. You know, obviously, running miles different than running a marathon. But, you know, every quarter matters. But at the same time, I do think if you look at how, the market has has looked to Tesla over the last five, six years, you know, Amazon during kind of the days of, you know, when they're building out AWS and then, you know, kind of their their retail distribution infrastructure when they go through these investment cycles. I do think the public market has a much greater tolerance for investment and a much longer time horizon than a lot of people in the venture ecosystem give it credit for.
Speaker 2:By the way, this is Foxy in the back. He's our he's he's one of the analysts here at the tradies.
Speaker 1:I was just listening to him on the Brad Gerstner podcast. I think he chimed in on that. Right? You brought him in? There we go.
Speaker 2:Yes. He did. But he did the work on SpaceX, so I thought you guys might wanna Fantastic. Talk about that. But I do think I'm not sure the story is as far out as you made it seem to be.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. I there are two variables that are gonna matter a lot over the next year.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:The first is just how quickly can they bring on terrestrial compute.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It does seem like they monetize gigawatts at a higher rate than anyone else. Yeah. And we know from Jensen that they bring on data centers faster Yeah. Than anyone else per Jensen's words.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And everyone in the ecosystem is really incented to get wind power in the hands of people who can energize it, because everybody starts making more money when the GPUs are energized. So, you know, if they can what what are what what was the altimeter figure for how what they were monetizing gigawatts at Foxy?
Speaker 1:Do you remember
Speaker 2:for which deal?
Speaker 3:Well, I think it was like two to three wasn't it like at least two times higher than like average neo cloud pricing and that's partly due to scale and customer quality and things like that, but it was meaningful.
Speaker 2:So they're they're doing 50,000,000,000 a gigawatt on Google deal. Wow. So how quickly they can add gigawatts really matters.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right? If you can energize two, three, four gigawatts
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:In the next year, that's a lot of revenue. Now, you know, the prices may go up, they may go down, but that's really gonna matter.
Speaker 1:So all eyes on Colossus three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, etcetera, at least in the short term? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Our macro hard, macro harder, macro Hardest. To that Macro hardest.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then I think cursor is another big variable.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, we we talked about it with Brad about how Composer 2.5 after three weeks of, you know, RL and supervised fine tuning Colossus two is kind of Pareto dominant. So what's gonna happen when it's applied to a bigger, better base model? I do think Cursor being in, you know, half the Fortune 500 Mhmm. Is interesting. So I think those two things, you know well, I mean, I'm super excited for going to Mars and asteroid mining and Yeah.
Speaker 2:And, you know, a city and mass drivers on the moon, like, that stuff is awesome. And I think there's a, you know, decent chance it happens in my lifetime. I just think there is there's much more tangible near term drivers here.
Speaker 3:Yeah. How do you think about the tension of the cloud business versus their own application and and model business? I think a lot of people were surprised when the initial Anthropic deal happened purely because, knowing Michael Truell, he would have been very excited to take compute. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Get access to your couple of share? Dave
Speaker 1:child around here.
Speaker 3:And it and it feels like, you can imagine SpaceX, you know, bringing on a lot more compute very quickly. But at the same time, every lab has had to go through this tension of like how much how much compute do we allocate to training versus inference. Yeah.
Speaker 2:A way to interpret that is that maybe the team at SpaceX is pretty confident in their ability to bring gigawatts online.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That makes sense.
Speaker 2:And the altimeter figure that they've ordered 20% of the Rubens, and the Rubin is an epic chip. Like, Blackwell was really hard to get it online. Rubens is kind of a more drop in replacement. It's a really, really good chip. You'll have the, you know, the Grok LPUs integrated at some point in the next six, nine months.
Speaker 2:So one way to interpret that is they're pretty confident that they can bring data centers online pretty quickly. But I also I I don't remember all all of the details, but I do think there there was an out in the Anthropic agreement that if they Yeah.
Speaker 3:And the and the Google and the Google deal.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It could be short term that's what
Speaker 3:I just meant. It's like it is there is like a tension Yeah. There where if you, you know, there's a moment where maybe you want the compute but you don't necessarily have all of the revenue yet and so you could see anyways, I'm I'm very confident to figure it out.
Speaker 1:Yeah. On on on the topic of like Elon web services, is there a world where SpaceX winds up building out more of what looks like AWS? Like, we've seen between OpenAI and Anthropic, there's this tension of, like, you gotta be on AWS because ITAR or, you know, the ecosystem or enterprises just wanna be on AWS. They won't even go over to Azure or Google Cloud for whatever. And you could imagine, like, it might is it enough to just be a token factory?
Speaker 1:Or do you need to have a database and an in memory storage and you know, cloud storage and cold storage and all the things that ABS provides.
Speaker 2:My thought is that being a token factory is more than enough for the next five to ten years, man. We are yeah. We need more token factories. Yeah. But we'll we'll see.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And if they need that stuff, like Yeah. They will build it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. How are you thinking about the other hyperscalers, the other big tech companies? We we were sort of puzzling over Meta's strategy at this point. Tons of resources, cash flow, data centers. They have experience there.
Speaker 1:Maybe they're not as fast as SpaceX, but there's a lot there. But it's a completely different motion to go into token factory, and yet there's still a lot of demand. So how do you think all of that plays out?
Speaker 2:Well, I think there's many ways to go to the token factory business. You could if you're if you're meta
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You could just say to someone like Fireworks, hey, Here are a 100,000 GPUs. We'll we'll take a revenue split and we'll see what happens. Yep. I am increasingly looking at EV to net PP and E as a valuation metric. Just with the idea being installed atoms on earth, I think are gonna appreciate in value.
Speaker 2:And this is a little bit that halo trade that I think maybe Goldman Sachs came up with, you know, high asset value, low obsolescence.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But Meta, you know, Meta's EV to net PP and E multiple is in an interesting place. It just suggests that the market has an immense amount of skepticism Yeah. About their ability to monetize their own asset base.
Speaker 3:And and I think that's I think that's warranted given that all we've really got out of management is this concept of personal super intelligence.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And it would be different if Meta AI was like at the top of the app store and everyone you were talking to was like, yeah, know, I'm using Meta AI.
Speaker 1:Or there even there was like a killer feature within Instagram. Yeah. It's like, oh, people are shopping in Instagram now.
Speaker 3:And I think no one no one doubts that like once Zuck has an AI product with a billion dollars of revenue, he can take it to to tens of billions. Mhmm. But it's unclear. I feel like, you know, going into enterprise, like, you know, what what is this API business gonna gonna look like? We know they can use the GPUs just on making the ads product Yeah.
Speaker 3:Better at the end of the day and but there's a lot
Speaker 2:of questions. Look, I think a few things. I do think if I look at the way different players are behaving, it feels like everyone thinks we're entering the endgame. Everybody, you know, loves to use these chess analogies. And it looks like the endgame may be here sooner than we think.
Speaker 2:I think that's why OpenAI is cutting codecs pricing simply because coding, you know, coding tokens are so valuable. And if you don't have enough of them, you may not be able to get into this RSI loop that that everyone is, you know
Speaker 1:Pushing for.
Speaker 2:And I think if you're Zuckerberg, feel that acutely. I thought Muse, what is it? Muse Muse spark. It was to me, it was an upside surprise and it made me feel like, you know, what's the what's what's what's from Talladega Nights or what is it? So you're saying there's a chance?
Speaker 1:Hell, yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, yeah. So you're telling me there's a chance?
Speaker 1:I mean, the other quote from Talladega Nights is if you're not your fur if you're not first, you're last.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh. And and, you know
Speaker 1:That's how a lot of
Speaker 2:people There's so many good quotes from Talladega Nights.
Speaker 1:He It's all the windshield.
Speaker 2:Yeah. A 100%. But I think if I'm pretty confident Mark Zuckerberg has proven to be a good entrepreneur over time, and he's been willing to pivot, you know, and it's just it's so funny, you know, right now, Facebook is, you know, Meta's telling investors there's, like, no chance that we're gonna, you know, you know, monetize GPUs externally. Well, like, ten days before they announced all those layoffs, which I think was at the end of twenty two. If not, I don't remember when they started to announce the layoffs.
Speaker 2:It was short shortly after Brad. Maybe at two months after Brad wrote that letter to Mark where he said, you're the king. You can do whatever you want, but this is what I might respectfully encourage you to do. You know, they went from saying we're we're not gonna do that, we're gonna keep investing to, you know, super focused on OpEx in a couple of days, man. So it's like people they meet with Meta and they hear, oh, you know, we're not we're not gonna monetize our GPUs externally.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't know. Check back in a few hours.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. No. It's like everyone it it comes down to like everyone has a price. You look at you look at Elon and Anthropix relationship four months ago and then you look at kind of kind of as the opportunity unfolded Yeah.
Speaker 3:It made sense for them to partner. Better. I wanted to ask how
Speaker 2:On the meta thing, I think there is one point that's important. Mhmm. What ultimately drives behavior for all these big cap companies? Like, getting to AI, I think that does feel existential for all of them. But the stock price also really matters.
Speaker 2:Sure. Because if you don't if the stock goes down, you know, you gave people a grant at this price, stock goes down, you know, your engineers are unhappy and it's tougher to get to where you wanna go if you don't have, you know, these you know, now forget the 10 x engineer people are talking about 10,000 x engineer. You know, you're not gonna get there if you don't keep those 10,000 x engineers.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So just I think, like, we'll see we'll see what's better.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yep. How did this IPO update your your general kind of framework for the role that retail is playing in capital markets? A lot of it was very funny last week to see people like say, like, oh, the the IPO is only two x oversubscribed by retail.
Speaker 1:Yeah. They're dumb. These all these other know, $3,000,000,000
Speaker 3:IPOs were were 10 x oversubscribed. It's like that we're that we're talking about, a very order of magnitude But difference it still feels like retail is going to play a very, very important role over the next twelve months, maybe more so than ever given that the the hyperscalers are are now running, you know, cash flow negative. You have the conflict in The Middle East. Right? There's rebuilding efforts that needs to needs to happen.
Speaker 3:And so I feel like retail this is this is kind of retail's moment now maybe more than ever.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, so a few things. One, people say retail in a pejorative way and I would just say stupid is as stupid does. And like, you know, we track you know, there's all these indices of retail favorites And, man, they're up a lot, and they're up a lot
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:'25, and they're up a lot in '24. Yeah. You know, so kinda stupid is as stupid does. So I'm not, you know like, think retail is probably outperforming the overwhelming majority of professional money managers, whether they're, you know, private equity managers, venture, you know, public equity managers, whatever. So, like, retail, I don't think it's pejorative.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I do actually think in the case of SpaceX, I'm not sure, you know, you process so much information. I'm not sure where this comes from. But I actually think after the IPO, you know, for whatever reason, it some of that retail stock may have may have gotten allocated to people who are flipping it because my understanding is there was more institutional buying. I don't know where this after the IPO, plus retail buying.
Speaker 2:Now I'm sure, you know, retail is very sensitive to momentum, so maybe what's happening today changes that. But I think the other really underappreciated thing about the SpaceX IPO is that 10 over 10,000 SpaceX employees bought on the IPO. And that's just, you know, everybody does all these lockup analyses, you know, how much stock is gonna come come to market and, you know, for sure, there's all these triple layer SPVs or whatever, you know, maybe there are. There are. People speculate there are.
Speaker 2:And I'm sure some of that will get unwound. Mhmm. But the reality is is that SpaceX employees own a lot of this. And if you're an employee or even if you're an investor who has an s an SPV or you're directly on cap table, you've had a chance to sell every six months for the last ten years. If you wanted to sell, you could have sold and, you know, whatever, when they did that offering in in the second half of last year.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think the supply demand dynamics here here are gonna be very interesting. But with retail in in general, yeah, man, they're they've been a more powerful force in the market over the last three and a half years than at any other time in my career, including the year February, which I think this is nothing like, by the way. Mhmm. But yeah, they they matter, and stupid is as stupid does.
Speaker 1:I'm interested to go a click deeper on the idea of, like, value will accrue to companies that are in the token path. I think that phrase is, extremely powerful right now, but I wanna sort of expand it and understand the fringes of the token path because we talked to Matthew Prince at Cloudflare. Stocks at all time highs. It's delivering tokens at the edge. And obviously, there's an immense amount of AI agents that are interfacing with different websites that need to be distributed.
Speaker 1:So there's a lot of value there. But is Cloudflare in the token path if they're the one finally sending you the packet of tokens at the edge? Or does that not count? How does that how
Speaker 2:do you
Speaker 1:think about that?
Speaker 2:Every CDN Yeah. Has has this business. You know, Akamai, they signed
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:What was it? A $1,800,000,000 with Anthropic. And if you have all these points of presence
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you can deliver really low latency tokens to high value users. I think what's interesting for for cloud for all these CDNs
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Is they're they're getting a massive premium for that latency.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, it turns out, you know, one of the lessons from from Cerebras is people are willing to pay for speed. Yeah. And you see that in the prices these guys are commanding. But I do think, I mean, my gut is in terms of tokens consumed on planet Earth, these CDNs are delivering less than 1% of them and I mean, maybe less than 10 basis points on them.
Speaker 1:Most of the tokens are happening internally, and then you just get the result.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Would I say that these guys are in the token path? I mean, I would say they have a path towards being in the token path. Yeah. Then they have part of their they have part of their business that's in it today.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And they're trying and like everyone, they're trying to move it more and more there.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I I mean, Matthew was talking about co locating NVIDIA servers on the edge, specifically for the delivery of voice models because you want those to be very low latency. Maybe you want your coding model to go off and cook in Virginia for twenty minutes or an hour and then come back to you with the final result. But if you're trying to actually talk to a model, you probably want it as fast as possible. What about on the opposite end?
Speaker 2:Wasn't there that startup that NVIDIA just invested in that, like, will
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. On your house.
Speaker 2:Money that put a GPU you know, four a four GPU server on the outside of your house. I mean, yeah. GPUs That'd
Speaker 1:are going everywhere. Going in your bed eventually.
Speaker 3:I mean, it's full circle too.
Speaker 1:You do warm
Speaker 2:in there.
Speaker 3:Wasn't Jensen talking about stuff like that back during, like, the original Yeah. Crypto cycle being, like, everyone's gonna be, you know, mining?
Speaker 1:Yeah. And I mean, the the Tesla Powerwall is, like, a version of that for storing energy. It doesn't store compute, but it stores energy locally on the edge off the grid, and there's a lot of powerful things that get unlocked by that. What about land? Is land in the token path at some point on the extreme other end?
Speaker 1:Because people are obviously searching for go going further and further upstream. They found a a toilet company that makes a particular material that goes into semiconductor supply chain. People are hunting for, like, the final the final ingredient. Maybe it's just sand that turns into silicon.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I do think the bottleneck bros, as they are called,
Speaker 1:are Bottle Deck.
Speaker 2:This like, Bottle Deck trade is kind of nearing its end.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And, you know, I did you know, The Wall Street Journal had the story about this Japanese company that makes, And I almost posted yesterday on x, welcome to Japan to all of the bottleneck people. But, you know, everybody's, you know, having clawed, run. What's the next bottleneck?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That was that was the game for the last year. The next game is what has enduring franchise value
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Kind of on the other side of these bottlenecks whenever whenever that is.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:As far as land, is land a bottleneck? Man, I do think the math for Orbital Compute to me, it once they can reuse Starship
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think the math for orbital compute becomes pretty compelling, know, it's just 60,000,000,000 to bring on a gig terrestrially, 25 is power and cooling, you don't need that in space.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so the right comp for that 35,000,000,000 of kind of, you know, IT equipment, GPU, CPU, switches, you know, memory storage is is that 25,000,000,000 versus the cost of launch. And once Starship is reusable, I think the cost of launch is 5,000,000,000. So 20 that means you can put a gig into space for 30,000,000,000, and the gig on Earth is 60,000,000,000, and that 25, the power and cooling, feels reasonably inflationary to me. Sure. So I don't know that I would say land is in the tokens token path.
Speaker 1:Maybe beachfront property, but that's about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Beachfront property is beachfront property, airplanes
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Really nice cars.
Speaker 1:Yep. Firmly in the token pass. All
Speaker 2:that stuff is in the token pass.
Speaker 1:I gotcha.
Speaker 3:How do you think the events of of last week with Anthropic and DC update different countries on their own sovereign AI play. Because there's been there's been attempts. It doesn't feel like, you know, many of the attempts of, you know, you can have a powered shell and you can have the best GPUs, but if you don't have the talent, it's really it's gonna be really hard to get to the frontier. And now, you don't have massive usage, it'll also be really hard to get to the frontier. And so, do you think the ship has sailed?
Speaker 2:No. Well, look look, I think every country is gonna wanna have their own sovereign AI strategy at a minimum for national defense. Mhmm. I think where that ends up is I saw today that the EU had restricted exports of McStrawls with
Speaker 1:I think that's a joke. I think that's a meme. So people have gone so far on the McStraw le chat thing, le chaton, that that they're saying it's like mythos is distilled on it, and it's breaking all the benchmarks. I think it's a good model, but I don't know that it's quite there yet. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But you can imagine that we get there for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think what Sovereign AI will look like for essentially all countries really other than The United States and and China, although I think China is gonna fall further and further behind Mhmm. Is just some sort of you do you use, you know, you use one of these providers to do some reinforcement learning on your language, your culture
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Your values. Mhmm. You have a system prompt. You do some supervised fine tuning, and you run that on whatever the best open source model is. I think that's where sovereign AI ends up.
Speaker 2:And then you run it in your own data centers so you feel like, you know, it's safe and whatever defense questions you're asking it or whatever. Forget questions. Whatever. Defense and intelligence and maybe, you know, policing activities your sovereign AI agents are doing, you know, twenty four hours a day, you feel like they're safe.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think that's where sovereign AI ends up. And I think, you know, there'll still be a big build out for that. But, man, sovereign AI at the frontier, I don't see it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. What do you think the drivers are of the widening gap between Chinese open source models and American closed source models is?
Speaker 2:China's made a terrible mistake not, you know, taking it feels like the administration has been willing to let them buy h two hundreds or p thirties.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think they're on this, like, you know, they have this crazy belief that, oh, you know, our own internal chips are good enough. They're not. Yeah. And then, you know, I think what's making them think that is that Chinese labs are very very good at distillations. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Somebody told me it only took a 160,000 reasoning traces from o one and o three to get the original DeepSeek.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, they're very clever at industrial scale distillation, running it through multiple APIs
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Pinging each API from, you know, we've all seen those iPhone farms in China. You know, they've got they've got the same thing for distillation and they've got, you know, a 100,000 endpoints distilling these models across every API available. They've gotten really really good at that. But, man, all that goes away if people stop releasing these models at the frontier. And I think mythos Yeah.
Speaker 2:Is a sign of things to come there.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. It seems like they're getting much better at locking down. The Reasoning Trace is locking down the the espionage. It feels like back during the o one days, the labs weren't even aware that I guess, question was so possible that that was, that that was something that was such a such a potential threat for sure.
Speaker 1:Jordan?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Please? Is any part of you worried that you'll never see another another company like SpaceX?
Speaker 2:Worried is the wrong word.
Speaker 3:Not not worried but but like you have to appreciate you have to appreciate that a moment like that, it's possible that you have an opportunity to invest in a company like that one time in your career. And thank God you did it, because there's plenty of people that that had the opportunity and didn't. And What?
Speaker 2:Well, I did own 15% of the video when it was a sub $2,000,000,000 market cap, but I I owed 10% of Tesla when it's a sub $2,000,000,000 market cap. But but SpaceX certainly it's been a special experience for me. Mhmm. And I think there is a chance that it is, you know, one of the most important iconic companies of all time. I mean, already is.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. There's a chance it's the most. And I think in general, it's just it like, I I kinda wanna take a step back and, like, all this trillionaire hate from the left, it's like the you know, there's a great post from my friend Kevin Mahaffy saying, like, oh, this is a Bond villain who's decarbonizing the world. Last time I checked, people on the left were like the environment. Connecting, you know, poor people in low income countries, schools, hospitals to the Internet, very low cost, and he's helping blind people see today and, you know, interact with the world.
Speaker 2:That's a villain. And then just like, there's so many parts of the SpaceX story, like, all of the, you know, blue collar workers who've gone super well. If you're opposed to data centers on Earth, because the environment well, SpaceX is your is your solution. So, you know, there was another great post that just said, you know, the left one and they don't even appreciate it. The world's first first trillionaire, you know, has done more to kind of solve the environment than like everyone else on earth combined.
Speaker 1:Yep. Yep.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Saw there was another good one that's like, yeah, Elon could solve world hunger by, you know, market selling every, you know, piece of stock that he has and send the world into a global economic downturn losing, you know Yeah. Millions of millions of jobs
Speaker 1:Yeah. In the
Speaker 2:That somebody said that Elon that the World Bank could solve hunger with 5,000,000. And he said if you prove it to me, I'll do it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Of course.
Speaker 2:And turns out you can't solve world world hunger for $5,000,000,000. Yeah. But, yeah, SpaceX is certainly, I would say, you know, SpaceX, Nvidia, Tesla, they've all been very special to me in kind of a different way. But, yeah, there's nothing like a rocket launch. And so I just don't think as a visceral experience, I highly recommend everyone listening.
Speaker 2:You guys, if you have kids, take your kids to a launch. You don't wanna go with SpaceX. Everybody's always like, oh, get me the special tickets. You just literally you can go to a beach at Boca Chica. And be where the special SpaceX viewing area is.
Speaker 2:You could literally be closer to the lodge. Yeah. You could there's hotels near Vandenberg. Take your kids, see a lodge. It's super inspirational that humans are capable of this, and it's much more visceral than you realize.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. You know, the sound, the blast of hot air, a lot of people cry. So go see a lodge, but there will be a I don't think a I'm pretty skeptical that there will be another company that delivers a visceral experience like that. And then listen, if SpaceX puts a city on on the moon and then Mars and enables, you know, becomes the British East City company, the solar system. I think this will those there's a lot of hard engineering that needs to happen to go into all that.
Speaker 2:This will probably be the most important company of certainly my lifetime, but maybe of maybe of all time. And so for that sense, I don't think there will ever be anything else like it. And, yeah, I guess that is a little bit sad, but you know what? There's so much awesome stuff happening in the world that it's it's it's tough for me to get too down, man. I
Speaker 1:love it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Hard to hard to hard to be hard to be too
Speaker 1:I have I have one last question. We have you mentioned owning NVIDIA sub 2,000,000,000. What is the health of the sub 2,000,000,000 market right now? Is there is there anything you're excited about?
Speaker 3:Is there anything that the bottleneck bros haven't ran up?
Speaker 1:You haven't run up to a billion yet?
Speaker 2:Bros have taken everything under 2,000,000,000 above 2,000,000,000.
Speaker 1:Maybe not even maybe not even, like like, public companies, but private areas. I mean, we're starting to see the knock on effects of AI in bio and, material science and, like, Neuralink was sub 2,000,000,000 for a long time. Right? And so there are more air like, not in theme, but accelerated by. So I don't know.
Speaker 1:There's also just like Listen. You know, SaaS company.
Speaker 2:There's loads of incredible venture companies, you know, startups under 2,000,000,000.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, loads of them. Yeah. You know, I I I talked to them, you know, several times a week minimum.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:In public, you know, until the Bottleneck Bros came along, until AI came along, there was not a lot happening in public small cap land. Yeah. And by the way, on this, like, all these small caps, these bottlenecks, this AI, it does feel a little weird to me that you can have, like, a large following on social media post about, you know, buy buy stock at something Yeah. And then post about, you know, outline your thesis in a $35,000,000 market cap company and send it up like a thousand percent. And there's a lot of that going on.
Speaker 2:By the way, this is not this is not like a serenity comment. I think that guy's that person Mhmm. Is smart. But I mean, there's there's there's there's a lot of shady stuff happening it feels like to me.
Speaker 3:Sure. Well, yeah. It's always you look back at, you know, you're a young young analyst at Fidelity. Right? During the the doc you know, the end of the the .com cycle and there was a lot of just like euphoria stuff happening.
Speaker 3:And in the years that followed, there was consequences. Right? There there were people ultimately had to to face
Speaker 1:Sometimes civil penalties, all sorts of different Companies went bankrupt. There were all sorts of different, you know, perturbations in the market. And, of course, we got a we got a bunch of really enduring generational companies through that period too.
Speaker 2:Although a lot of these accounts are anonymous, and I'm sure they're logged into social media with a made up email Yeah. You know, called through a VPN. And so I don't I don't know.
Speaker 1:We'll see. Is different than a research than a sell side research report that maybe goes a little bit too far, but there's still a whole compliance department around it. We are in, yeah, uncharted territory, so everyone needs to stay safe out there and do your own research, I suppose.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Anyway.
Speaker 2:Well, guys, man, this was super fun.
Speaker 1:This was great. Let's do it again soon.
Speaker 2:On more.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Anytime. Let's get
Speaker 3:the whole team on too.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. We're now. We'll do it. You know what that's actually fun?
Speaker 1:Yeah. It'd be great.
Speaker 2:Let's do that with the whole team.
Speaker 1:That'd be amazing.
Speaker 2:That's awesome.
Speaker 1:I would love it. Yeah. Yeah. Got a conference talk. You got a conference room a with a nice wide angle camera.
Speaker 1:You can just have the whole crew there. That's great. Partner meeting.
Speaker 3:Into a
Speaker 2:partner meeting.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Exactly. Awesome. Great to hang with you guys. Thank you so much for coming out.
Speaker 1:We'll talk to you soon.