Christmas Carol - Charle Dickens - Victorian Literature - Christmas Book

Happy holidays to you all, Adventures. Thanks for tuning in. In this episode, Slava and Jonathan (joined by Josh, our intern) discuss A Christmas Carol, a classic novella by Charles Dickens, first published in 1843 and illustrated by John Leech. The story follows Ebenezer Scrooge, a wealthy miser, as he is visited by the ghosts of Jacob Marley, Christmas Past, Present, and Yet to Come, leading to his moral redemption and transformation.

00:00 Introduction to A Christmas Carol
04:12 Dickens, Context, and Victorian England
08:45 Scrooge as Antihero
13:30 Poverty, Class, and Social Responsibility
18:40 The Ghost of Christmas Past
26:10 Memory, Trauma, and Isolation
33:45 The Ghost of Christmas Present
41:20 Ignorance and Want
47:55 The Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come
55:30 Scrooge’s Reckoning
01:01:45 Redemption and Moral Transformation
01:07:30 Why A Christmas Carol Still MattersJOIN THE GUILD
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Creators and Guests

Host

Jonathan

Host

Slava

What is The Side Quest Book Club Podcast?

If you’re a reader looking for something deeper or an indie author working on your book, The Side Quest Book Club is for you. We skip the usual book reviews and ratings. Each episode turns fun side quests into real lessons, so you’ll leave not just entertained, but with a better understanding of why storytelling matters.

Bob Cratchit's like, I'm gonna grab the ruler and beat this man and then call for help because, you know, Scrooge thinks this is a joke And Scrooge is like, oh, I did the humor! Fact that he goes, ha ha, I'm a changed man. I'm gonna play the most horrible prank I can on the man that I constantly berate Hey, you piece of shit. You're okay.

I'm giving you a raise. Like what? What's going on? How dare you only employee that I have be late the day after Christmas. Just for that I'm giving you a raise.

Oh, I did the humor and we're gonna drink during lunch It would have been even better if he's like, hey, you're late and your wife just called your kids dead. Just kidding I'm paying for his medical expenses The modern retelling that Slava is gonna do for this is gonna be great. I'm for it.

I'm here. The Russian version The Russian version with cell phones Coming to you from an endless library where every book is read and every spoiler discussed Join us as we dig into the lives of fictional people who cannot defend themselves. This is the SideQuest book club Hey SideQuesters, Merry Christmas because I didn't say it last episode So I hope you had a great Christmas and you have a great New Year's coming up.

Bahamba It's a Russian pronunciation. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, it's weird that you can always fall back on that anyway Today we have the awesome opportunity to have Josh join us He has actually decided to be our first SideQuest intern, which is super exciting He's loved podcasting for a long time. He's wanted to get into it and We need extra help. I'm sure you guys have seen some of the stuff that we put out We want to put out a lot more but we are just limited by being two guys Who've got lives, wives, and dogs and Flashing lights in the background.

So Josh welcome. Why don't you give us a little intro? You know name what you love about podcasting and any sort of like recent book you've read besides of Christmas Carol Which is what we're covering today. Yeah for 30 second intro.

All right. I'm Josh Yeah, I work in finance. And so I really wanted like a creative outlet, you know, I don't really get that That opportunity to do something super creative other than just creating Excel spreadsheets and different models So I can be creative.

Yeah. Yeah, you know you you have more restraint So actually it might be more creative. You have to be a little bit more creative.

So But I really do enjoy storytelling and so that's what really got me interested in podcasting and this podcast in terms of Recent books, you know, I like pretty heavy books or like books on economics and business Things like good to great or like a book that of you know A friend my best friend has made fun of me for that. I really like her reading was basic economics by Thomas soul It's like I mean, it's like a dictionary. It's a very long book Or or books like Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand.

That's a that's a favorite Crime and punishment So, yeah, we're gonna do crime and punishment again sometime well I say again because I've read it before we're gonna do crime and punishment sometime in the near future So, okay. I'm glad that you've read it before. Yeah.

Well, welcome to the show Josh. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it so today we are Reading Charles Dickens a Christmas Carol and a lot of you may have read this growing up But you know it being the Christmas season we thought we should do at least one seasonal book So Slava do you want to give us a background of? Mr. Dickens himself sure thing Charles John Huffin Dickens born 7th, February of 1812 is an English novelist journalist and short story writer and Social critic he has created some of literature's best-known Fictional characters and is regarded by some as the greatest novelist of the Victorian era Born in Portsmouth Dickens left school at 12 to work in a book blacking factory when his father Was incarcerated in a debtor's prison So I think some of that comes out in his works leaves that experience in some facet after three years He returned to school before beginning his literary career as a journalist Dickens edited a weekly journal for 20 years wrote 15 novels 5 novellas Hundreds of short stories and nonfiction articles, and he also lectured and performed readings extensively He was a tireless letter writer and campaigned vigorously for children's rights education and other social reforms so his literary success began in the 1836 serial publication of the Pickwick Papers his 1843 novella a Christmas Carol which we're covering remains especially popular and continues to inspire adaptations in Many different creative mediums Oliver Twist great expectations are also frequently adapted like many of his novels They all all of them evoke images of early Victorian London his 1853 novel bleak house, which was a satire in the judicial system helped support a reformist movement that Culminated in the 1870s legal reform in England a tale of two cities another book.

He's famous for Written in 1859 and set in London Paris is regarded as his best-known work of historical fiction That is a little bit about our boy Dickens Exciting times. Do you happen to know Slava? like when did When did a Christmas Carol get faint like when did it become like the book we had to read during Christmas, I Don't know I Remember and I'm in my 40s. So I remember it being already a staple 40 years ago Yeah, that's what I'm wondering where it's like Josh.

Did you read it growing up as a kid like in school? No, I don't remember ever reading it to be perfectly honest But my I mean, I have my favorite one of my favorite Christmas movies was a Muppet Christmas Carol Okay close enough I think it's a great adaptation of the of the story. Yeah. Yeah for sure.

I because I read it when I was a kid and I think I Remember us reading it like Second grade third. It was like every year. We would read a Christmas Carol like in school Maybe it's because teachers didn't have anything else to to offer us and there I don't remember there being any like dr.

Seuss Christmas items, but Well, I I would venture to guess it was probably as the Victorian era was dying off It became more popular because people looking back Saw it as a social critique It captured the zeitgeist of the early Victorian era and I think him being a social critic as was mentioned in his bio People started going back to it and going. Oh, this is this is a good thing that he wrote this is a good commentary and then it became part and staple of school readings because at least my teacher in sixth seventh and eighth grade our Spelling teacher he was called but really It was a reading class. It was a lit class.

I don't know why they called it spelling But nevertheless, he made us read books that offered social commentary The world yeah, so this was one of them So I imagine that's how it became popular or a standard in schools, maybe I mean Yeah, I do feel like these teachers end up going like oh I have my kids read this and then other teachers Realize like oh, I should take a couple of those too and save myself literally having to decide whatever But I'm speculating if you're a teacher at me in the comments. I probably was one of your worst students Well, so the story is actually quite short. There's Five chapters, is that right? Slava? I believe so.

Yeah five or five five chapters. It's five Yeah, it's exactly five chapters. So when I was reading it, I noticed something Curious, I don't think it's exactly this but I did text you guys this week that I think based on my remembrance that a Christmas carol is actually a chiastic structure Slava, can you confirm that for me in terms of like you remember what a chiastic structure? I'll explain it to the audience here as well but a chiastic structure is a story that mirrors itself and It culminates at a central point in the middle where something important happens And so ancient authors think like biblical times and other ancient times Greeks Romans, etc They didn't have the same level of storytelling Capability is not the right word, but they didn't We've developed in how we tell stories today, right? So theirs was more I'll say quote-unquote rudimentary Which is not a great word either because chiastic structure is brilliant But it was just an earlier form of storytelling and so chiastic structure was used in a way to Emphasize whatever that central point is so with there being five chapters the third chapter has a key point where Scrooge ends up taking a turn in his character a turn in his decisions on how he wants to live the rest of his life and Then as we're moving out of the story, we're seeing a mirror of The things that have happened in his life and Slava you can correct me on this if you if you want if you notice something Different but like in the beginning he starts in his house and it's cold in the end It's he's in his house and it's warm in the second chapter.

He's in his house and whatever's happening in the fourth chapter He's in his house and blah blah blah. So like you can see there's this mirror effect going on and I was I read it twice this week and I was like, oh I Really think and then I had to relook at the chiastic structure. So that's a little bit about chiastic structure Slava Did you notice that Josh? Did you? Did you notice it? I? didn't I'm trying to remember that third chapter.

So then that third chapter was the ghost of Christmas present present, right so Yeah, it's like him living in the moment actually like enjoying the moment because I mean at the beginning he He doesn't feel anything right? He like can't even feel the cold And so it's actually him enjoying the moment Both like not reflecting negatively on the past and not thinking like being afraid of the future And actually being in the present. Yeah, I didn't notice anything like that. I mean, I'm happy to assent to your Theory, but I just didn't notice it.

My notes aren't loading. Oh, there we are. All right Let's just give a quick look.

Yes Scrooge's misery so another thing about chiastic structure because that's just what I'm bringing to the table today is when it does the mirroring so like Plot point one would be called a and the end plot point that mirrors. It would be called a one plot point B and then B one in the mirror on the back end and then main point would be C as A standalone and so we've got Marley's ghost where Scrooge has a heartless life just like Josh was saying Marley warns him about chains to come Plot point B the ghost of Christmas past. There's this emotional reflection and regret his humanity starts to resurface We start to see a little bit of that change and he goes.

Well, I just wanted to stay a little longer. Oh Okay, we'll go spirit. We'll go and then the third one is is the present the moral center If you will where the ghost of Christmas present comes and he has his turning point he starts to feel empathy He starts to warm up.

He starts to realize that his money's worthless and all these people hated him and then we move to be one where it's a reflection and so we see that his fear Turns to horror and it's reflecting that that in humanity because we have emotional reflection in in point B and then B one is mirroring that with Fear and reflecting the horrors and then the final point is the opposite of plot point a Where he's joyful and generous and he made a decision to be redeemed in the midst of his Life instead of it ending where everyone's happy that he's gone And stuff like that. So I'm happy to agree with you. This is the first time I'm hearing it about Dickens Christmas Carol though, but here's make sense me too, but I read it and I was like, I Think this is a classic.

So I did a little research and so I was like, yeah It looks like it is now is detailed chiastic structure that you and I would be more familiar with Slava Yeah, I think it's a little bit in the gray area Honestly, it's not a one-to-one the way that like Noah's Ark as a story is Mirrored like God did this God did this Noah did this Noah did this and then it like moves towards the center it's not that detailed but yeah, and I'm wondering if Dickens really had a chiastic structure in mind or did it just work out that way and that's why it's a little Bit looser. I think it worked out that way Yeah, because I feel like the ancients and ended up like very purposefully putting that in as opposed to people who kind of stumble on It it's like oh, there's a reflection here. But honestly, I think that's really great storytelling.

Yeah. No, I agree. That's kind of cool.

I Like it. I like it Jonathan Should we move on to the plot summary do it into it? So it's Christmas Eve, but Ebenezer Scrooge a businessman of some sort at London Subtly refuses to acknowledge the holiday his clerk Bob Cratchit huddles and the outer office Trying to warm himself with only a candle Scrooge won't allow him to add coal to the fire Scrooge's nephew Fred drops by the office full of cheer and invites Scrooge to join him and his new wife for Christmas dinner Scrooge rebuffs the invitation But Fred refuses to be offended Scrooge's visited by some gentlemen at the office soliciting donations for those who cannot afford food or warmth over the holiday But Scrooge refuses to contribute Blaming the poor for their supposed laziness if they have no money he says they should go to the workhouses or debtor prisons and They won't do that. They should die and reduce the surplus population at the end of the working day He grumbles resentfully that his clerk will probably want Christmas off and tells him to be the office all the earlier the day after Then Scrooge goes home as he sits up late by the fire He hears the sound of rattling chains as the ghost of his former partner Jacob Marley appears Marley is bound by the chains.

He forged in life and Scrooge warns that his own chains are longer and heavier Marley has arranged for Scrooge to have one chance to escape his faith Three spirits will come to him over the next three nights and Scrooge must heed them if he hopes to save his soul As Scrooge goes to bed the first specter Visits him. He soon visit by the second and third and after his encounters with the specters Scrooge wakes and finds that his entire adventure took only one night instead of three and that he hasn't missed Christmas Day Scrooge sends an enormous turkey to the Cratchit family for their dinner Encountering one of the benevolent gentlemen. He rebuffed the previous day He promises an enormous donation in aid for the poor he attends his nephew's dinner party and has a wonderful time and the next day a Transformed man he gives Bob Cratchit a raise He also becomes a benefactor the Cratchit family and second father to tiny Tim Allowing the boy to survive for the rest of Scrooge's life He makes it his business to keep Christmas in his heart all year long you know this story I like It's interesting to me how similar it is to like the or what it reminds me of is this story in the gospel of Luke When like the rich man Dies and Lazarus dies and the rich man is begging that Lazarus Lazarus is with Abraham And the rich man begs Lazarus to go and warn his brothers Yes like that, I don't know it's just a crazy thought concept of like being warned by Somebody who knows like the life that you are living how where it leads to Coming back to warn you And to change your course Yeah, yeah, that's a really good analogy yeah for sure Because I think we live lives with a good bad or otherwise we kind of come to a point in our lives where we are so ingrained in our beliefs and Our ways of doing things our habits That we at times don't realize when we drift off course and that the decisions we make in the lice we live sometimes are trite and sometimes as in Scrooge's case They're the only word that comes to mind is like they're offensive to other people.

They're not good lives They're harmful the decisions not just to yourself because you grow into yourself kind of fold fold into yourself and become this curmudgeon And Then that doesn't just hurt you because you're a rich loner in a big house You're also kind of a dick to everybody around you and you hurt them You're not just all you say mean words to your employees, but you actively Whether you acknowledge it consciously or not, but you actively hurt those people So we see that in Scrooge's life for sure and his redemption arc. I think in In what in a three-hour read I think Dickens really does a good job You know consolidating what could be? You know a 400 page book into whatever. This is 150 or something like that.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I Liked at the end where Dickens really wraps it up where it's like and then Scrooge became a second father to Tiny Tim Oh, okay Yeah, don't mind the fact that he kicked the crutch out from under him and at least one of the ones that I remember watching Of course could I guess I could be making that up But that probably isn't a movie adaptation or something to make him even more of a asshole to the audience Yeah, he's talking about these surplus population with the charity folks There we go. Are you enjoying today's side quest? Make sure you're subscribed.

So you never miss an episode We are available on YouTube and all major platforms so you can listen to us anywhere and now back to the show Well, let's get into chapter one guys. It is Christmas Eve and the streets of London are wrapped in an icy fog people in carriages Passing on the street outside. The window are obscured like wraiths or ghosts and sound is muffled Scrooge is working and Keeping a gimlet eye on the clerk Bob Cratchit Scrooge's nephew Fred breezes into the office wishing Scrooge a Merry Christmas Scrooge dismisses him Contemptuously with the pronouncement that Christmas has never done any good or put money in anybody's pocket Fred protests that many things have done good and haven't made him wealthier and Christmas is one of them Fred invites Scrooge to Christmas dinner, but Scrooge refuses and then Dismisses him next the two gentlemen come to the office taking up contributions to provide food and warm for the poor Scrooge Refuses rebuffs and dismisses them claiming that prisons and workhouses are sufficient to provide for the idle The gentleman argued that those institutions are degrading and are inadequate and that many people would rather die than use them Scrooge responds that if that's the case, then maybe they should die I really want to know like I want Dickens to write a pre-novel like Scrooge grew up his origins to his villain origin story.

Yeah. Yeah something like that The fog becomes thicker and colder at the office door a boy begins to sing a carol But Scrooge drives him off and then the day Scrooge grumbles to his clerk He supposes Bob will feel ill used if Scrooge would dock his pay Bob returns to his loving family Stopping on the way only to play with several little boys who were asked who are skating on the icy patch in the street Scrooge goes back to his own cold and empty house Approaching his door. He is startled to see his doorknocker has been transformed into the face of his old partner Marley a Moment later, it turns back into a doorknocker and Scrooge tells himself.

He must have imagined it He climbs the wide stairway towards his room, but he has only gone halfway when a spectral locomotive hearse Rushes by him unnerved Scrooge settles down in front of his meager fire and makes himself a bowl of warm gruel Yes, let me warm up with some warm gruel you are what you eat Treatment for a head cold. He has developed the ringing of a bell interrupts his contemplations and Jacob Marley ghosts appears Wearing a chain of cash boxes padlocks keys deeds ledgers and heavy purses Once Marley has convinced Scrooge that Scrooge is not imagining him Marlene Says his spirit has been roaming the earth as punishment for not making it his business to care for his fellow human beings He has come to warn Scrooge that he will share his faith Unless he changes his ways To that end Marley has arranged for Scrooge to have one chance to change He tells Scrooge That three spirits will visit him one each night over the following three days Scrooge stammers that he would rather they didn't Marley tells Scrooge he would be wise to heed what the spirits show him Marley must then return to his hopeless wandering Looking out the window after him Scrooge sees the sky full of spirits bewailing their inability to ease the suffering of the living You know, I'm wondering if I was asked to be a guest on this podcast as a member of the finance profession You know, I'm a money Trying to convict me of Some sins that I'm giving to the poor. Yeah, I'm giving to the poor Jonathan No, we're trying to manipulate you to fund a side quest podcast You're a quote-unquote intern, but we're gonna need you to pull out that pocketbook boy I have all this well all this wealth.

I've been just hoarding and sitting on. Yeah The old curmudgeon, you know, yeah, the Dutch are known for their yeah miserly ways That is true. It's true.

I'm living up to that But what would you guys what would you guys do if like one of your old pals came back now this is not one of his old pals right like Marley's been dead for seven years and Scrooge's I'm still a curmudgeon. But like it took Marley seven years to get back to him be like yo dog you want this to be you and he like Drops his chain on the floor, right? And then you know, it's like It's like the modern day just like Flapping it out on the table. He just drops his chain on the trope floor and he goes you have to spew This is what's gonna happen, you know what I'd really love I want someone to do a remake I don't think we can do this in today's society a remake of a Christmas carol in different people's ethnicities Just let your mind.

I don't know that just It's gonna include a lot of stereotypes for each different version, but I'd love to see that And that's on the record. So Yep Podcast is getting canceled on my first appearance. There we are That's why that's why we need the money because we're getting canceled.

Yeah, we need money for those lawyers and a PR firm So typically in books, right the refusing a call is an indication that the hero is not looking for any trouble Like Bilbo Baggins, he's like no. No, no, I'm good in my little hobble Here, I don't want any trouble. I don't want to go Gone any adventure good day but here Because Scrooge is an antihero and he's a protagonist with negative traits like greed selfishness indifference to others Just you know, it doesn't care a lot of people and in his case the refusing of the call is an indication of His weakness rather than a peaceable nature or just you know maybe a little bit of cowardice on a Protagonist side that needs a push into you know, whatever getting Getting courage and all that stuff.

So What do you guys think of that? Does that make sense? Is it in my mind track? I mean, I think I'm on track But well, if you if you guys want to unpack that a little bit, I'll be happy to Bonsam ideas back and forth Slava can you remind us what the parameters of an antihero is? real quick because I think the last time we talked about an antihero is like 14 to 30 episodes ago. So if they're tuning in new I Just want to do a quick refresher. Yeah.

Sure. So an antihero is a central character in a story who Almost all the time because it kind of works out differently depending on the genre I think but in traditional literature It's one who lacks traditional heroic qualities like courage nobility morality Peacefulness instead they may be cynical selfish have weak moral compass often perform heroic actions, but for personal reasons or by chance and They're not a traditional hero, but they often play the protagonist role in a story so that would be like a Cliffnotes version of the definition because there's as you guys know, there's different genres and different creative mediums so antiheroes are Portrayed differently and it does get a little bit more nuanced than what I just said, but generally speaking. That's what it is Yeah.

Yep. All right. Thanks So now this is where you guys interact a little as I said 30 seconds ago All right next episode we don't have an intern anymore The intern didn't work out but we'll introduce the next one shortly, okay I mean, he's definitely an anti he definitely I think fits that description Right, I mean he is he's the protagonist in the story and he is Not a upstanding member of this like society this community in the sense that he's contributing other than just Really just taking money from people and hoarding it for himself the reason I bring that up is one of the prominent themes of the story is the relationship between greed and Poverty and I Dickens saw the problems of economic, you know stratification In his time, so there was the rich Look slightly less rich and then just very very poor so the commentary here is on The society as a whole because there were probably more scrooges than we want to Admit, it's not just all these benevolence Benevolent rich people doing everything they can to help the poor underneath them and then there's one guy who's just a jerk kind of on the side and the spirits and the universe decided to Interject into this guy's life to help him.

The commentary is like hey the Victorian era was plagued by the type of life that Scrooge led and the ideas that he had and It comes out in other stories in other movies, well, we see movies whether they're historical fiction or just fiction but if you pluck any of them out from there, you know, whatever their bookshelves you'll you'll see in this era there was a lot of hatred and disdain if you will For the poor the pores. Yeah, stop being poor. What's Paris Hilton say don't be poor or whatever When did she say that she used to she used to have like a line? Because I think I remember that on one of her reality TV shows Come full circle stop being poor Yeah, I mean Scrooge is he's so afraid of being poor that he can't even enjoy what he is accumulated and in material wealth Off the backs of the poor off the BSM I want to contrast the fact that Scrooge's nephew is one of the cheeriest like in the book It says he's basically if you know anyone cheerier introduced me to him the narrator, right? so one last thing before we move to chapter 2 is What do you think about the contrast? Between Scrooge and his nephew or his nephew is just this jovial guy The narrator tells us like if you've ever met anyone who's happier than this like I want you to introduce me to them Right, like there's this very stark black and white if Scrooge is black and his nephew is white in terms of like their inner person where Scrooge is cold and dark and mean and his nephew is bright and joyful and full of Life, you know what what stood out to you in terms of that were like a they're related and be the guy's so joyful He won't even like when he when we get ahead and he's in talking to the ghosts his his nephew will like poke fun at him But even be like hey, you know what? Let's drink to his health, right? Like there's a stark contrast there There is and I think for Dickens as the commentator using this book to comment on society the nephew is the ideal that's what We all should strive to be in Dickens mind and Scrooge is the opposite so what he's saying is hey Folks on the top of the strata.

You all should strive to be like the nephew. Otherwise The decisions you're making the life you're living the worldview you're holding on to will make you into a Scrooge and I liked What was said earlier? He can't even enjoy his own wealth so instead of having a warm house and paying his Employees well, so they bring more Profit to him because they're working in a warm house. They're not worrying about tomorrow They're not worrying about him going off on them.

So he has no thought for anybody but himself and His nephew in contrast even though he thinks his uncle's a bit of a loon or maybe even a jerk and he's like Yeah to his health, you know, he doesn't know better. So this is a Contrast that is being presented here That's all carry on to chapter 2 All right chapter 2 Scrooge awakes to a neighborhood church bell ringing at midnight He's confused because it was well after midnight when he went to bed He lies awake listening to the bell chime the quarter hours the hour strikes one The bed curtains by Scrooge's head are pulled aside and a light streams in on him revealing the ghost of Christmas past The ghost is a diminutive spirit both old and young sometimes solid Sometimes wavering and a light burns from his head like the flame of a candle in his mind He carries a conical cap and a candle snuffer He announces to Scrooge that he's the ghost of Christmas past and bid Scrooge to come with him Scrooge realizes that resisting is pointless though. He does protest when the ghost leads him toward the window However, the ghost places his hand over Scrooge's heart and leads him directly to the wall Scrooge finds himself on a wintry road near the school where he spent much of his childhood The sights the sounds and the smells of the scene overwhelm him The other boys are all on their way home for the holiday Scrooge recognizes them and calls out to them But the ghost explains that the boys are only shadows and cannot see or hear him The ghost reminds Scrooge that one child is still at the school alone They entered the dilapidated schoolhouse where they see young Scrooge Weeding by a small fire the older Scrooge is struck by the memory of being this forgotten unwanted boy and begins to weep The spirit touches him and draws his attention to the parade of imaginary people Passing by the window all the characters of all the books young Scrooge read and loved Scrooge laughs with delight to see them, but then suddenly sobers Saying that he wishes he had given something to the boy who stopped to sing a Christmas carol outside his door The ghost shows Scrooge another Christmas this one a few years later Scrooge is older the school is dingier and instead of reading Young Scrooge is pacing back and forth the door flies open and Scrooge's younger sister little fan darts in She throws her arms around him and cries that she is bringing him home for Christmas That he will never have to return to the school and that he is to be a man the ghost reminds Scrooge that Fred is his beloved sister's son Next the ghost brings Scrooge to the old warehouse Where he was apprenticed his employer Fezziwig is a cheerful old man wearing a Welsh wig at 7 o'clock Fezziwig's order Scrooge and Dick Scrooge's fellow apprentice to put up the shutters and clear the floor the neighbors begin to arrive filling the warehouse with laughter and music and dancing the ghost remarks on how cheap and easy it is to make such silly people grateful and Scrooge passionately replies that Fezziwig's kindness had a value surpassing money He sobers thinking of Bob Cratchit Leaving Fezziwig the spirit shows Scrooge a somewhat older version of himself Seated beside his fiancee Belle.

She breaks their engagement telling him that money has taken the place She used to hold in his heart The scene changes and Belle is now a mother to a lively family Her husband returns home and informs her that he has seen Scrooge sitting alone in his office While his partner Marley is a death's door Seeing the family especially the daughter. He might have had Scrooge begs the spirit to take him home. He seizes the spirits cap and pushes it down on the spirits head Forcing it all the way to the floor But the light continues to stream out from beneath a moment later.

He finds himself back in his own bedroom Terribly drowsy and staggers back to bed. I think there's the pain Jonathan that Has caused him to be who he is and see that in the in the story of his past You're gonna I realize this is your first go-around But I'm gonna just complain about this in every book basically about wanting one more world building and background Because it's just it's just how I am Josh So I agree it was there I got a little I got this like series of vignettes, right but Kindly with kindness Yeah, it's never enough no matter what the author gives Jonathan it's never enough no just takes and takes and takes It's he's kind of like Scrooge's fire there's no coal in it It's there's never enough story there's never enough story telling no It's a short, you know, it's a kids. It's a you know, it's meant for to be shared with kids with short attention spans so let's unpack chapter two a little bit and I think we should start with Scrooge being this lonely lonely little kid Like the first vignette as Jonathan calls it Where all the everybody else all the boys are running home to their families It seems like this school is kind of a crappy school.

It's decrepit. It's dilapidated but These kids still have somewhere to go to and they like where they have to go You know, whether it's a poor family that are going to a not so poor family They seem to be happy that it's Christmas time and They're running home but Scrooge at This point he's not Anti-christmas and he's not the Scrooge that we know him in his 20s 30s and now when he's an older man, he's just alone in this room reading So it's he's yet not broken, but he's still a lone little kid So I found that scene the Not endearing. What's another word? Maybe help me out Jonathan.

Sometimes you're able to pull out a word out of me better It's not endearing but I found it provoked compassion It was provoking in some sense. Yes, but I was I was able to identify with it like I because when I grew up And people in the audience who have been with us in the beginning Got a little bit of a synopsis of my home life when I was a kid it was pretty terrible and I found myself alone a lot of times because my mom was a recluse and she tried to turn me into a recluse and there were times where I was by myself and While everybody else was going to their families where they enjoyed spending time with them I tried to avoid home as much as possible. So instead of dilapidated schools in the 1800s.

I found myself in You know a library in Massachusetts, but I could identify with Scrooge and in this moment Yeah, there have been times in the past where I've I've avoided home for home life issues 100% the Remind me because I you know, I watched the adaptation last night the animated Disney version with Jim Carrey 2009 and In that scene with his younger sister fan and the Disney movie she had made a con she had talked about her their dad being like abusive or Something like that. Was that in the actual novel? I can't remember. I couldn't remember when that When she said that if that was actually in the novel Jonathan you read it most recently Do you remember I don't Remember if that's mentioned It's a one-liner, but I don't remember that line at all.

My My guess is it's an addition for the Disney version just to like give us a justification for why he is the way he is Yeah, it's not a bad assumption because she says you can Father is like not angry right now or he is like in a good mood. It's Christmas. You can come home Something to that effect so it's like okay This is why he's he's shut out at school from his friends and he's also has this rough home life Right because I think fan his sister is the archetype of child Savior, right she literally is Scrooge's Savior Intervening with their father to permit him to come home So there has to be something at home that pushes Scrooge out But fan still wanting screws to be part of the family must have and I'm just a speculation must have said something to appease father's anger or disdain for a Scrooge That he says, okay fine the little shit can come home for Christmas again Speculative I'm putting words in his father's a mouth But I think there's something at home.

Yeah, and he rejects his opportunity we need to go home, I think and Yeah, and it's interesting another thing that's just before a fan's prediction That he's gonna become a man It kind of it doesn't come through right because Scrooge fails to become a man in the sense that he embodies what a Man should be like like what a grown man in society should do he fails to do that Because he constantly rejects those saviors that come to him in his life until these ghosts It's only the end of his life where he responds correctly to the saviors quote-unquote that are sent to him And it's interesting that it's then her son that is that Joyful, you know man, and when he's a man when he's older, yeah. Yeah, exactly so I Think it's the how do I say this? It's the recognition of the loss that finally overwhelms Scrooge Hmm, and then he tries to snuff out the memory altogether So again with this first Ghost again quote-unquote Savior. He's still old Scrooge Even though now he's kind of been pierced to the heart because all these memories are coming back to him and I'm sure he's really reliving Some of the stuff that he felt as a child and how he slowly got harder and harder well, and don't we all do that right like if you got some stuff in your childhood and you're like, I Don't want to deal with this you don't have to that's literally Part of the freedom of being an adult right like you literally don't have to deal with stuff if you don't want to However, you will get the consequences of living your life that way and in Scrooge's, you know manner That means that you're you're like, honestly of all the people that we meet in this story, I think the only person who ever loved him is Take a guess take a guess take a sister his sister his sister.

What'd you say? Josh? I said, man his sister That's her name, right? No, I Think it's his business partner. Oh Because his business partner actually calls him out on his BS like hey Oh, you're gonna do this to referencing your point from earlier. We're like, can I go back and tell my family? Right not to say that it's just don't get me wrong like not to say his sister didn't love him But like it is in his adult age.

All right, I guess I'll say that Yeah, cuz I mean fan is warning is it's kind of it's in a sense of warning him You're going to be a man. Like are you going to live into that? All right, yeah two people two characters loved him, yeah But because of what he went through and I'm not defending him But I'm I understand him because of what he went through he kept pushing people away and Initially was just to avoid his family, but slowly or maybe fastly You know in his life as he got older that circle that he didn't want to you know, didn't want to be a part of Grew larger and larger and larger until he's all alone eating slop and with all the money he has he can't even heat his own House, I can't refuses refuses to heat his own house. Hmm I can't wait till we read crime and punishment and you start defending Ruscona cough Well because of the way he grew up, you know, he really needed to kill his landlady So I get it No, I do get it Kidding.

I'm kidding. I don't Kill the landlady before that's like when you're 18, that's table stakes man. Yeah, you know You got a bit hit back of the bourgeoisie somehow Respect pun intended take back the means of production slava.

I'm working on it. I'm working on it Next week on the side quest dos capital Anyway, we're off track as poor usual chapter 3 No sooner does yeah. Yeah, please.

I mean, I just also thought it was interesting that Part of the chapters in the second chapter his old like his apprenticeship Right and his old boss and just like the kind of stuff who he became in that profession And probably who somebody who's like the one who's like the one who's like the one who's like the one who's like probably I would assume looked up to Yeah, but I mean maybe he was just in it just to accumulate wealth and that was it but Yeah, it did not become this person that he was training under Yeah, he definitely didn't and a great interruption. Those are the kind of interruptions we like on sidequest he Probably did look up to Fezziwig, but because he constantly pushes people out. He never let Fezziwig Influence him, you know, he looked at him.

He probably Appreciated what his boss did but he never took those things never learned from them Never replicated them. He constantly pushed people out and You know kind of was inverted into himself That's the only way I can phrase it and then he became harder and harder and colder and colder So no sooner does Scrooge fall asleep after escaping his first spirit Then he hears the bell once again chiming one o'clock with no intervening day Scrooge goes to investigate a light from the adjacent room a voice calls him into the room Which is decorated for Christmas at the center a Figure dressed as Father Christmas is sitting on a throne of food introduces himself as the ghost of Christmas present Scrooge is meekly subservient with this visitant He takes hold of the spirits robe and finds himself on the crowded street on Christmas morning The shops are full of food Children run and play People of the poor classes don't have adequate cooking facilities So they carry their dinners to bakeries where their food is cooked Wherever tempers flare up and people seem about to quarrel the ghost sprinkles something from his torch over them and restores peace He sprinkles their holiday meals as well and Scrooge asks What is the spirit adding the ghost says that it is the Christmas spirit It makes everything taste more satisfying on this day And it is especially needed by these poor folk who have so little The ghost then brings Scrooge to the home of Bob Cratchit The Cratchit family are decked out in their best attire Which for the girls means ribbons the eldest son Peter is proud and self-important in his father's best collar Their oldest daughter Martha returns from her job as the hat makers apprentice Finally Bob returns from church with a youngest child tiny Tim Who is thin and frail and walks with a crutch? Bob tells his wife how good and sweet natured Tim was at the church and Repeats a remark of tiny Tim's to the effect that he hopes seeing him Will give people pleasure by reminding them of Jesus who healed the sick When questioned the ghost informs Scrooge that if nothing happens to change the future Tiny Tim will die within a year at the end of the meal Bob Cratchit offers a toast to Scrooge Who by paying Bob's salary keeps food on their table and a roof over their head? Mrs. Cratchit isn't so generous She would like to give Scrooge a piece of her mind the ghost then walks through the city with Scrooge watching people rushing back and forth from parties celebrations and Dinners with friends and loved ones Then he escorts Scrooge through a sequence of other Christmas scenes all joyful despite the generally meager circumstances two men alone in the lighthouse Sailors far out at sea a miner's family somewhere in Cornwall until they come to Fred's house Fred is telling his apparently pregnant wife and her sisters that he feels sorry for Scrooge Who's miserly cold nature deprives him of happiness and harms only himself? His wife like Bob Cratchit's is scornful After dinner the group plays a number of games and then Fred's wife plays the harp Scrooge recognizes the melody as one his little sister loved everything that ghost has shown him comes back to him and He thinks that if he had been able to listen to that song through the years he might have led a different life The group the group plays more games and Scrooge joins in although they cannot see or hear him The ghost finally pulls him away, and they travel the world seeing Christmas celebrated in numerous ways as they travel the ghost ages and he reveals that he will die at midnight as The time comes for them to part Scrooge notices a hand like claw emerging from the robe of the ghost the ghost pulls his robe aside revealing two children a boy and a girl emaciated sickly and vicious Scrooge asked the ghost if they are his children and the ghost says they are the children of humanity They cling to Christmas for the visage of hope and comfort it gives them the ghost tells Scrooge that they are named ignorance and want and that they will be humanity's end when Scrooge asks if there's any recourse the ghost quotes Scrooge's earlier remark about prisons and workhouses Midnight approaches and the ghost of Christmas past disappears as the ghost of Christmas yet to come approaches I Do like that he has two children hiding in his robe you ever you ever see that meme where it's like I'm just three raccoons stacked on top of each other Yeah, so this is two kids in a ghost attack to talk to each other Yes What do you say ignorance and you want? You think that Josh talked to us about the symbolism there any any observations Yeah, it's okay, you well, we talked about this in our like Bible study right in terms of We were destroyed for our lack of knowledge and then And then just the the I guess the desires of man the lusts of man you could say Right that nothing is enough. And so it's that that want That destroys humanity Yeah, it could be it could be a layer too I think I'm not disagreeing with you I think that's a very apt analogy or description but I Think there could be a Second side of that coin or a second layer.

I think Dickens is Calling attention to the suffering of the lower economic classes maybe want also refers to the survival needs of the poor like food shelter medical care all that stuff and An economic class that can't meet these basic needs is a threat to a stable society ignorance may be on a superficial level maybe refers to either the lack of education or the lack of Access that the the poor have or maybe it's the ignorance of the rich classes they just they are willfully ignorant of what The those who want need so maybe that's it. I think it's a very layered So and maybe subjective in some sense so I think both are right and both can be pulled out in this story and And this what I what I am confident of though is Dickens sees These two things as the doom of humankind Right because ignorance allows the wants to go unchecked. Hmm Yeah, I didn't think about it and that from that perspective, but I think that's a good commentary and that Also, then Scrooge is in a position where he could actually do something about that In terms of bringing education and actually filling that That need that so many have Yeah, exactly start to clean his soul a little bit.

Yeah with all his with all his cash And it again getting back to those archetypes of you know saviors, right tiny Tim is sort of another savior of Scrooge because his situation Pushes Scrooge I may be over that final hump that he has to get over where he becomes a second father to tiny Tim Like and in some cases the roses are reversed like on a miracle on 31st Street another Christmas story an old man saves a child by being kind to a child and kind of Revitalizing a sense of wonder and imagination all that good stuff to the little girl, so What I'm noticing as we're going through this which I Didn't prepare for and I didn't hold and I don't have this in my notes but Scrooge is given chances throughout his life with these saviors and Their children a couple times like his sister and tiny Tim at the end of the book So maybe this is the chiastic structure you're talking about Jonathan and at the end of the book, it's a child again that now as an older man Scrooge can be his savior to some degree. Well prevent him from dying by offering a medical aid pain for his medical aid that he needs so I Think it's a I think it's really cool the way Dickens Weaves this weave this in by that ladies and germs brings us to chapter 4 The ghost of Christmas yet to come glides towards Scrooge Scrooge asks the spirit if it is the ghost he was told to expect But the spirit merely motions him to follow Scrooge expresses his willingness to learn whatever the spirit has to teach him He finds himself with a spirit in the stock exchange At the time Scrooge would normally expect to be there he looks around but he doesn't see himself in his usual corner The spirit directs him to a trio of businessmen of his acquaintance who are discussing a death One man introduced to the subject by saying well, well old scratch got his own last. Hey, none of these Seem to care in the least about the dead man One says he was probably the closest friend to the deceased Given that they used to stop and exchange a few words every time they met Next the ghost brings Scrooge to a rag-and-bone shop in a poor rundown part of town a laundress a charwoman Cleaning lady and an undertaker arrive each carrying a bundle from the home of the dead man the undertaker stole some cheap trinkets the laundress took towels and silver spoons and Mrs. Dilber the charwoman took the bed curtains right off the bed and their shirt off the corpse they laugh among themselves over their own ingenuity as well as the Parsimony and ill nature of the deceased who was alone in his death Scrooge Assures the ghost that he understands the intended message His life tends in this direction now if he doesn't change he could end up like this poor man The scene changes and Scrooge finds himself at the bedside of a corpse the room is cold and dark the bed curtains have been torn down and rats and cats prowl inside waiting for the opportunity To devour the body of the unwanted and unloved man The spirit points to the sheet that covers the body Indicating the laugh this indicating that Scrooge should raise it and look at the corpse Scrooge cannot bring himself to do so Scrooge begs the ghost to show him somehow who has any feeling associated with the death of an unnamed man The ghost takes into the house of a young couple Scrooge Has the impression that the spirit is taking him back and forth from one time to another not in any chronological sequence the young couple Having learned of the man's death are relieved because it means they will have Another week or two to pay the debt.

They owed the dead man It will be enough to keep them out of the poorhouse or debtors prison Scrooge begs the spirit to show him some tenderness connected with a death The spirit takes Scrooge to the Cratchit home where mrs. Cratchit and her daughters are sewing grave clothes for tiny Tim Bob returns home from making the burial arrangements He tells the family about the kindness of Scrooge's nephew Fred Who encountering Bob in the street asked him? What was the matter and expressed the sincere condolences? Fred then begged Bob to come to him if there was ever anything that he could do for Bob or his family Bob says that it wasn't the offer of help that was so touching and comforting But rather the kindness and Fred's words Bob tells his family that they must always remember Tiny Tim and love each other for his sake Scrooge asks the ghost about the identity of the dead man and The ghost leads him to an area of town where Scrooge's offices Scrooge stops to look at the window hoping To see himself, but the office belongs to someone else The ghost brings Scrooge to a little weed chowed graveyard and points to one of the headstones Before looking down and seeing his own name Scrooge begs the spirit to tell him whether these are the shadows of the things that will be Or the shadows of the things that may be only The implacable hand wavers and Scrooge realizes that for all its dreadful appearance the spirit means him well He begs it to tell him that he can change his fate The hand trembles again, but the spirit says nothing Scrooge catches the spectral hand and Tries to hold it, but the spirit gradually dwindles away and becomes a bedpost Let's talk about Dickens narrator here. I think that this kind of slides by Because I haven't read this in a while, right? But the narrator is this Authoritarial or No, it's this like intrusive voice that we get to and interact with because sometimes he breaks the fourth wall and he's like joking around with us as the audience and Like that moment I mentioned Earlier in the episode where it's like if I ever did meet him you should introduce me to him and he's like having some jovialness with us as the reader Which is not something That happens in much Authorship these days the second thing that I noticed is this is like a moral tale Right like also most books these days are not a moral tale and the author is or sorry The narrator is a moral guide Bringing us as the reader through through that So those are some observations. I Wanted to bring up in terms of like the the narrator himself.

I think the way We are pulled into the story via the narrator. It's fascinating For the reason I mentioned the beginning of the episode that so much is compressed into so little of a time frame and so little pages so we get a lot from very little and in short pithy sentences and some of them are not so pithy but in a short amount of time we get a lot of Commentary as Dickens attended but also a lot of the story we were pulled into it At least I am pulled into the story where you know You you get little little boy Scrooge and what he's probably feeling of that fire And then as the story continues him looking at his own grave and saying good spirit, you know Pursuit as down upon the ground he fell before it your nature intercedes for me and pities me. So he's slowly broken down and I mean maybe And not maybe I think Jonathan is right like a few more hundred pages It could have been more of an epic story right like a longer meaning longer story not the slang version of the word epic, but even here in a Few hundred pages.

There's so much like look look at us like we're unpacking on the podcast Or where we could be unpacking it in just a regular book club or in a literary class But there's so much here to unpack already And I think the the narration and how it's written Helps it to be you know an enduring story interesting to talk about Hundreds of years later one thing. I think One observation I have and I don't know if you agree with this, but yeah to get to your opinion on tiny Tim and the last ghost the last ghost had referenced him dying within a year and now with this second ghost of Of Christmas yet to come Tiny Tim is recently passed it seems and then this is when he's dying So it's also saying you're gonna die within a year. So it is that like sense of urgency of Yeah, these things coming very soon very quickly.

I Think that that pushes pressure puts pressure on Scrooge himself as well where he has this dread and this horror where he's like Wait, is this really gonna happen or is it like us? Is it like imply? And so he starts almost begging and negotiating with the the last spirit Yeah, so like in hopes that this could be different. No yeah, and the death of tiny Tim contrasted with the death of Scrooge So in his journey and this hero's journey anti-hero's journey There's the scene where Scrooge is unable to live the sheet from the body that represents You know quote the approach to the inmost cave the moment of contemplation before his final ordeal Scrooge is not able to face his own death Just yet. He soon soon will will but in that moment He's not and then the contrast between what happens to him When he dies people steal all his crap and like even his business partners, you know in the in whatever version of Wall Street these guys have They're like, yeah good for him.

Probably got his you know, that's it. So when his Not his when tiny Tim is dying. They weep and speak fondly of him Even as a child a poor child so the thing that Scrooge despises the most he leaves a legacy that will influence them for the rest of their lives like his family is like we should Live like tiny Tim.

He's you know, small and frail and he's a child and he's accepting death Nobly, and he still has love in his heart. He's not bitter and people respond to Scrooge's death kind of like yeah good riddance and then You know the People who are like the cleaning ladies in the neighborhood or where they even hate him because I'm sure he treats them like garbage They yeah, he treats everybody the same. Yeah poorly and They're not Necessarily justified and you know laughing his death and stealing his crap, but that's not really a commentary on them It's a commentary on how horrible Scrooge is that he dies alone and nobody gives a crap No, and he's robbed in his death And so rob those who can't fight back.

Am I right? Hey Yeah, so there's a commentary that I read and in contrast to tiny Tim This is what the commentary said by contrast The only use Scrooge offers after his death is as food for predators and the only emotion his loss inspires is relief Yeah relief that for the couple that wasn't able to pay their rent so at least we have a couple more weeks now To get and you know, I thought that was interesting. Okay, I it was interesting to me at the beginning early on When he referenced are the prisons no longer in you like are they out of business or whatever? And I just thought that what what does that even mean? Like our prisons meant to be like for the poor Yeah, that concept didn't really like, you know, I don't really have that Yeah. Yeah.

So yeah and during this era and even throughout antiquity if you had a debt you'd be thrown into prison No, I'm gonna pay a debt. So At some point they they wisened up and realized like if we put them in prison, we also don't get our money So we should at least let them work So that we can get something. Yeah.

Well, I don't know when that happened But now people will commit a crime to go to prison so that they can be provided for And at least have food and shelter Yeah, I don't know. How do you organize society in a way that that is anyway? Well, that's a that's a story for a different episode But I would love to tell you how I would organize society with the cult that I joke about starting there it is I may be one of the potential members of that Yeah, buddy, I got you on the I got you on the VIP list. Mm-hmm Jonathan has struggled pun intended to get his cult off the He already has me working for him for free so with this there it is this internship is already Can I put this on my LinkedIn or oh? Yeah, yeah, you know slave to side quest book club.

Okay Intern the internet intern title has changed debtors prison to side quest book club. That's the old English spelling of intern a slave It's Christmas guys, can't you pull it together for one episode? And mother Russia Christmas makes jokes in mother Russia Christmas buries the dead We have Say we have swore at the Pete in the Netherlands, but I don't know if I'm gonna go down that rabbit hole It'll be oh, please. You can't know for sure Please tell us about sports.

You don't know about sports. Tell us about Saucy Pete. Tell us about saucy Pete Zwart means black in in Dutch.

It's it's black Pete. Oh, I know she's talking about. Yeah He clings he cleans the chimney for for Santa Claus for Santa Claus So that's why he's black.

It's because of the coal It's not because of blackface. Yeah, it's because it's not because of blackface. He has a Yeah, he's a chimney sweep.

Yeah, it's worth. Okay. I someone's gonna clip this Okay, so the chimney sweep has coal and soot on him, which is why it's called saucy Pete or whatever Yes, saucy Pete is the now the politically correct term.

Oh All right that we just came up that Jonathan just came up with so Moving on bring us home here. Let's chapter 5 Chapter 5 he calls out to a boy who is passing by and learns that it's Christmas Day The spirits came in one night rather than three giddy with delight Scrooge being giddy giddy with delight Scrooge sends the boy to purchase the largest turkey in the city And send it anonymously to the Cratchits after dressing in haste and confusion Scourge walks about the city smiling at everything and everyone greeting people warmly and patting the heads of children He's had a stroke and then went insane he encounters one of the benevolent gentlemen who called at his office the previous day and In spite of his shame and how he behaved in the occasion Scrooge approaches and pledges an enormous donation to aid the poor in the afternoon He goes to his nephew's house it takes a great deal of courage to make himself go in but he finds that his nephew is as good as his word and welcomes Scrooge with open arms Scrooge arrives at work early the next day hoping to catch Bob Cratchit coming in late and play a little joke on him Bob finally arrives and tries to slip into his seat unnoticed But Scrooge demands to know what Bob means by coming in so late The one employee tries to slip into his seat Unnoticed for being late. I thought that I laughed and laughed Yeah Bob admits that he was making Mary the day before and overslept drunk Scrooge growls that he will have no more of this.

He's going to raise Bob's salary in In fact Scrooge becomes the benefactor to the Cratchit family and as mentioned already a second father to tiny Tim With proper medical care Tim survives and grows strong People of a certain sort laugh at the change in Scrooge But he doesn't care what they think of him people of a better sort say that Ebenezer Scrooge is a man who knows How to keep Christmas in his heart all year long. He's sitting next to the Crackling fire with the Cratchit family now He can go visit his nephew and not get made fun of entirely Turned he's turned the page this guy Turn the page So, what did we learn gentlemen Well, I know what Scrooge learned don't associate with the pores The opposite the people he most despised or looked down on for the kindness or what he would call weakness Are the quickest to forgive him? But he comes to realize that The people, you know who laugh or deride anybody different from themselves You know are the ones who laugh at him now, but he no longer cares about their opinion If he ever did no, I mean, I think it would be I was thinking about just that That huge contrast overnight that happened and just How bizarre that would be to like to just witness that in a person or in yourself to be? Just completely different the next day. Yeah, and I think that's done for the sake of brevity for the story but If that actually happened in real life And I think it does happen in real life because people sometimes when they're faced with something Insurmountable like emotionally and jarring and you know life-changing I think people can change in an instant and to see that a hundred percent agree if you saw somebody who's been an asshole or their life and treated you you know with contempt and all of a sudden they're like buying your dinner begging for forgiveness and Jumping around or giddily like Scrooge.

They might that might be jarring for you You might think you somebody's playing a joke on you or The Scrooge in your life has literally gone off the deep end and is either playing a joke on you or the head of mental Breakdown somehow so you yeah, he's had a stroke. I don't know. Yeah, I would I mean you would treat it with some apprehension Right.

Absolutely. Absolutely Yeah, Bob Cratchit's like I'm gonna grab the ruler and beat this man and then call for help because you know Scrooge thinks this is a joke Yeah, Bob Cratchit doesn't understand that You know, that's good. Just like oh I did the humor Yeah, now the fact that he that's a good point the fact that he goes, haha.

I'm a changed man I'm gonna play the whore the most horrible prank I can on the man that I constantly berate so Hey, you piece of shit You're okay, I'm giving you a raise like what what's going on? How dare you only employee that I have be late the day after Christmas. Yeah, just for that. I'm giving you a raise Humor and we're gonna drink during lunch.

Yeah It would have been even better if he's like hey you're late and your wife just called your kids dead just kidding I'm paying for his medical expenses The modern retelling that Slava is gonna do for this is gonna be great We should make that a short Slava does a modern retelling of the Christmas Carol Excellent, I'm for it. I'm here Russian version the Russian version with cell phones. Yes.

Yep Uh something that I did want to talk about as we wind down here is So in the book it it like mentioned sound effects a little bit How is that for you guys where it mentions kind of like oh and then the floor creaks and this that and the other like Do you like sound effects in your reading or do you? prefer To skip that and it's not for you Is this a subtle way to it? Is this a subtle way to ask us if we've appreciated the sound sound effects you've been Dropping through this episode Fair that's a fair question. No, I'm just looking at my notes here as we're wrapping up From a couple days ago when I mentioned the chiastic structure and I was like one topic to discuss sound effects while reading And then I reinterpreted and was like I was doing that during this episode. So You know, no, not that like when it says The the floor creaked and there was a whoosh of the the wind and things like that does that take you out of the moment when you're reading stuff like that or no, if it's done well, and it's I don't want to say part and parcel of the story, but it's part and parcel I guess is the only term that's coming to mind of The type of writing of the era.

It's a little more descriptive or maybe this is meant for kids So it's a little bit more geared towards kids so they can get their minds into the story. I don't care if it's done well, I've read books that have no sound effects, but are descriptive about the person's inner thoughts or their feelings or the aura if you will around them like ghost stories specifically or What's going on in the room and not? Always are the sounds explored and then the other stories Sounds are like the most important thing. That's what drives the fear in the character We're reading about if it's done.

Well, I don't care either way It blends in really well, but also Dickens is like a very seasoned author so You know may he not turn in his grave with what we've done to his story Maybe he'll visit you tonight Jonathan Maybe he'll just stand there with a sound effects boombox and just keep clicking the different sound effects That's the hell you deserve Well speaking of hell We are going to descend into hell in our next episode So we're not done with ghosts. We're going deeper into Any final thoughts before Slava and I move past the river Styx into the first layer of hell a Merry Christmas To and to all a good night. What does God bless us everyone? That's what it is Yes.

Thank you Clearly, I didn't get tiny Tim's lesson very well because I can't even remember it. Never mind. I don't want to say anything I'm we're gonna leave in a somber and Cheery note.

It's what somber and cheery. I'm having a stroke. We're gonna live live.

Oh my god, we're gonna live Let's all Merry Christmas Happy New Year, let's all live Yes, and that's how we're ending 2025 Mm-hmm side quest. Thanks for tuning in folks. We will see you next time and in hell That's true That's true, that's all of those things are true join us next time in hell Merry Christmas.

Happy New Year. I Have a favor to ask you if you like what we're doing. The simplest way to support the show is to hit subscribe in return We'll keep leveling up and we'll listen to your feedback and read authors that you suggest and of course We'll take side quests along the way Thank you for joining us and we'll see you next time