Understanding MDR Services, with Brennan Manion

Show Notes

Brennan Manion serves as a Senior Account Executive at Red Canary, a Managed Detection Response service providing 24/7/365 protection for their customers. Through Red Canary's innovative approach, which integrates AI and human expertise, organizations can effectively mitigate cyber threats while minimizing false positives, providing peace of mind in an ever-evolving threat landscape. In this episode, we discuss the significance of MDR and the intricate differences between EDR, MDR, and XDR.

Conversation Highlights:
[01:39] Introducing our guest, Brennan Manion
[07:12] Defining MDR
[12:30] Discussing the origin of Red Canary
[13:32] Adopting a cloud-first model
[15:39] False positives in MDR
[18:09] Comparing EDR, MDR, and XDR
[21:16] Partnering with Red Canary
[24:25] Leveraging AI in MDR services
[27:10] Brennan's message to IT leaders

Notable Quotes:
"The number one core value at Red Canary is we do what's right for the customer." Brennan Manion [15:19]

"If you feel strong about something, push the button. You'd be surprised at the amount of greatness that you can bring the world." Brennan Manion [28:30]

Connect With Brennan Manion
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brennan-manion-5a916639/

The IT Matters Podcast is about IT matters and matters pertaining to IT. It is produced by Opkalla, a technology advisory firm that helps their clients navigate the confusion in the technology marketplace and choose the solution that is right for their business.

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Narrator: Welcome to the IT
Matters Podcast where we explore

why IT matters and matters
pertaining to IT.

Keith Hawkey: Brennan Manion,
welcome to the IT Matters

podcast. How you doing my
friend?

Brennan Manion: Thanks, Keith.

Great to be here, really
appreciate you having me on.

I've listened to some of the
podcasts and it's great to

actually be here as a guest. So
thank you for having me.

Keith Hawkey: Yeah. My pleasure.

Really excited about the
conversation we had today. First

of all, for those of you that
don't know, Brennan is a new

father. So tell us, tell us
about the dad life with young

young Finnegan.

Brennan Manion: Dad life is
great, it really is a blessing.

It's pretty wild, just to just
see the miracle of life come

together. And I know there's a
lot of books on being a parent,

but I don't know if there's like
any set manuscript or process

you can just follow 100%. But I
do believe that God just puts

these powers inside you that
when you kind of hold the baby

and you see it, you just kind of
know in your heart what to do.

And it's been really great. The
legend is true, you do get a lot

less sleep when you do have a
baby. So that's happening, but

you know, thankfully, I've got a
great wife that you know, keeps

me in check there and helps out
with that. And it's super fun

and thanks for asking. We're
really enjoying it.

Keith Hawkey: Yeah well. Glad to
see another Manion in the world.

We need more of you. Look, quick
intro. Brennan is an account

executive at Red Canary. They
are a managed detection response

organization. And today we
thought about focusing on what

what is MDR? Red Canary? How did
you get into the industry?

Brennan? We're coming up at the
end of 2023. We'd love to talk

about where do you think the
market is going next year? What

are some of the trends that you
see happening as of late?

Brennan, tell us tell us about
how how'd you get into

cybersecurity and how did you
end up at Red Canary?

Brennan Manion: Thanks, lots of
great stuff to talk about there.

So for me, you know I first, I'm
from Charlotte, North Carolina.

So for those that are familiar
with Charlotte are gonna know

what I'm talking about, for
those that aren't it is a

banking capital. It is big time.

If you go to the local YMCA or
at church or just you go to a

restaurant, there's a good
chance that somebody next to you

works at one of the big banks.

And when I was trying to figure
out what I wanted to do 15 years

ago, when I graduated college, I
went ahead and talked to a bunch

of people. And I quickly
realized I did not want to be a

banker after going to some of
the trading floors. I just love

interacting with people. I cut
my teeth with my first sales

job. I was the rich, the rich
guys trash man. I sold a

computer recycling service. And
it was pretty cool. I called on

hospitals, universities, I
actually called on the big

banks, all different types of
organizations. And it was a

really great way for me to learn
and begin my craft and in sales

and really start to fall in love
with that. I then started to

realize that I wanted to move
and elevate my game up. I wanted

to focus on something IT
director or that C level

executive is interested in, not
necessarily the garbage they're

trying to get out of their
facilities. So I actually went

to this conference called Varrow
Madness. There was another

reseller back in the day that
had the same colors as Opkalla

and a lot of people loved them
just like they love Opkalla

today, but the company was
called Varrow. And I was there

thinking I was going to get a
job at Cisco or EMC or any of

the companies there, Palo Alto
started to become big at that

timeframe and I actually fell in
love with the reseller community

of Varrow and just listening to
the CEO give a presentation. I

got connected with the VP of
sales and he connected me with

another and I actually found a
home in Varrow and ended up

working there for about four
years. Along that journey of

selling data storage, connecting
to the internet, networking,

security, I just really was
passionate about, hey, there are

people out there hacking
organizations, stealing

credentials, creating ransomware
like, that's exciting. It's the

modern Wild Wild West in my
opinion. And it just got me

fired up so I kind of attached
my cart to those horses, focused

on cybersecurity. I found a lot
of enjoyment in that. And being

from Charlotte and growing up
here is an amazing city that has

grown and it's so beautiful, but
I didn't really know anything

aside from Charlotte, so I
actually decided to go double

down, bet on my career a little
bit. And I decided to go find

myself at no other place than
Bay Area, California. I ended up

moving to San Francisco, San
Jose in the peninsula in Palo

Alto. And I actually worked for
a cybersecurity company there by

the name of CrowdStrike. And
felt really fortunate I got

there in early time, right
before they had really started

to launch. I actually worked at
CrowdStrike, when it was

challenging to sell CrowdStrike.

It had not totally hit that wave
where most companies are now

utilizing them in some fashion.

And it was pretty cool, a great,
smaller company at that time,

the one right behind me, Red
Canary, got connected with me,

and we knew about them, we had a
nice partnership. And they asked

me if I would wanna be the
enterprise account executive for

the Bay Area and that just
sounded so exciting to me. And I

decided to go forward with Red
Canary and I've been here for

over five years, and they've
been a great company to work

with. And I've made my way back
to Charlotte. And I've seen so

much change happen in the
security community. And I've

watched our company grow and
change to that. And ultimately,

it's really nice, we're really
focused on being a security

ally, and empowering others and
really do our best to keep

companies out of the news
headlines. That's the number one

goal at Red Canary is to avoid a
data breach or compromise and

give the confidence that they're
going to be protected. I know

that was kind of long, but
that's how I got my start in IT

to where I'm at today and just
really finding enjoyment in

cybersecurity,

Keith Hawkey: Well, it's you've
landed at a good place, and

getting the, having the
background CrowdStrike, I'm sure

helped along that path as well.

CrowdStrike has become a you
know, one of the leaders in the

endpoint detection response
marketplace, and they've grown

since then, as well and expanded
capacity. So Red Canary, Red

Canary serves a very important
role in the cybersecurity threat

landscape within the Managed
Detection Response area. So when

you think of MDR, Managed
Detection Response, what is MDR?

What if you have an IT leader
that is looking for, they don't

have the internal resources to
have 24/7 eyes on glass, in that

they're watching the screens
that are doing the threat

hunting, and they're thinking
about outsourcing that task and

they you know, they know they
need MDR. What is MDR? Who

should be, what should they ask
providers to validate they're

doing a proper job of this?

Brennan Manion: That's a great
question. So that's so funny,

too, because MDR means so many
things to so many people, it

really does. It easily can be
defined different ways. And

funny enough about Red Canary is
when we first started, it was

just called Red Canary, like MDR
wasn't really the definition at

the time. We weren't sure
exactly where to put us into the

box of what category we're in.

You know, from a security
leadership and security

practitioner looking to really
level up their security and

harden their posture. You know,
when you're looking at an MDR

provider. Yeah, you want 24 by
seven eyes on glass. If you're,

if you're most of the ones in
America, you're gonna want your

SOCs to be USA based, you want
to have USA support. Those are

all kind of generic standard
things that you should be

getting from an MDR. If those
aren't part of the equation,

then I don't really think that
even fits into the MDR category

to begin with. But what really
stands out to, at least in my

lens and how I'm viewing it, you
know, MDR should be somebody

who's looking through, they're
doing the threat hunting,

they're confirming the threat,
and then delivering that

confirmed threat to the end
user. And what's what's wild

about that Keith, is there an
MDR is managed detection

response. When you're bringing a
threat to somebody and

confirming it, that's just MD,
that's managed detection. If

you're ever going to add an R,
you have to have a response

component to it. So what that
means to me is, hey, you're

either able to stop that threat
in its tracks, you're able to

remote in, you can share screen,
you can get online, the R should

be the level of response and
detail that customers should be

looking for. What can my MDR
provider do once a threat is

identified? How can they help me
respond to it? Because it's

quite interesting, Keith, you
see this every day talking to

different organizations. They
might have some really smart

people on staff, probably at the
same level that Red Canary does

for some of their incident
response. But as you see, they

only have maybe one or two like
cyber, I like to call them cyber

ninjas. They're just going to be
scary good at their craft. But

then there's other people that
have really focused on

networking and storage, and
they're kind of moving over to

cybersecurity. And you gotta
find a way to empower those

people to be successful at it.

And at Red Canary, this is
something that we do every day,

we are professionals at
identifying threats and

responding to them. So when
we're partnering with someone

and we're defining MDR, it's a
partnership where we're working

with you and your team to make
sure that, hey, we did pick up a

threat in your environment,
we've confirmed it's legitimate,

it's time to respond to it. And
we want to work with a team to

respond to it however they best
see fit. And it's really

important that we do it quite
quickly because speed does

matter in the security industry.

So for me, managed detection
responses, it's somebody who's

identifying the threat,
confirming, confirming that, and

then helping the customer
respond to it, however, that

customer sees the best fit.

Keith Hawkey: Yeah, and, you
know, like, like you said, I

think for a long time, many IT
departments have dealt with

having to, they're focusing on
detection, and they're getting

fatigue on the number of alerts,
and they don't know how to

remediate. And it's, they don't
have, you know, the cost of the

cybersecurity specialists,
depending on how tenured they

are, skyrocketed during COVID
and are still very, very, very

high. And for most
organizations, they don't have

dozens of IT people, they don't
have the spend to invest in that

resource and much less invest in
a SOC that's going to be 24

hours. So they invested in tools
that give them telemetry and

it's it's a full time job to
have the know how, of how to

respond. And I'm sure you've
you've walked into situations

where there's SOCs that are
embedded within an organization.

And they're saying that, you
know, we maybe we have reduced

alerts, but we still don't seem
like we have a partner beside us

that's going to help us respond
to the threats and even

remediate on our behalf and in
some circumstances. So yeah, I

think that the response part of
MDR is, is probably the the

biggest differentiator among the
providers in the marketplace.

What is so you know, in terms of
Red Canary, where did where did

Red Canary begin? What is the
origin? What is the company

focused on now? I guess what,
how does Red Canary standout in

the MDR marketplace? How's it
different?

Brennan Manion: Yes, so Keith,
the reason that Red Canary was

created is ultimately we just
saw a problem in the

marketplace. And the problem
was, teams are getting alerted

with so many different security
alerts from all the great tools

that they utilize in their
environment, from firewall to

NGV, EDR, to identity, you name
it, right? All these tools are

generating alerts, Red Canary's
whole goal and mission was, hey,

let us collect in that data, let
us help identify the threat

really, actually be very strong
and confirming what's a threat

and having a high accuracy
percentage, and then helping

that customer respond to it.

That's the main goal and focus
that we have and there was a

problem that we saw in the
market, basically.

Keith Hawkey: Yeah. And then and
that definitely means a lot. Is

there are there particular,
where's Red Canary going right

now? What what's what's the
frontier look like? What what is

r&d look like in terms of the,
you know, robustness of the

service, and the next year,
where are y'all set as far as

developing the industry.

Brennan Manion: So you know, Red
Canary's cloud first, and we're

a cloud native solution, we can
support on premise technologies,

but we're ultimately betting on
the cloud, we're seeing more and

more users starting to deploy
into the cloud right now. And

we're definitely wanting to be
the leader of managed detection

response on cloud use cases,
anybody who's using containers,

Kubernetes, any of the major
public clouds that you all are

familiar with and positioning.

Red Canary wants to be on the
leading cutting edge and

identifying threats and
responding to them. You're

pairing that, we feel like we've
really created a nice workflow

when we identify a threat, and
confirming that it is indeed

legitimate and then helping the
end user respond to it. The next

iteration and phase of Red
Canary is is adding additional

integrations, right? There's
been some new technologies that

have hit the world, really, and
hit the world by storm. And we

want to get those integrations
involved with Red Canary. So

that's something we support many
of the major ones that most

organizations organizations use,
but at the newer ones that are

really starting to stick and
people are finding value in

them, we want to have eyes on
that when we've collected that

data feed, we want to provide
value and context there. Those

are the main pieces. And
ultimately, what we're going to

keep asking and leading into our
customers a big core value, the

number one core value at Red
Canary is we do what's right for

the customer. So the way that we
do that is by listening in,

understanding the challenges
that they're facing in their

security operations, and our
goals to really meet that and

let them know and really deliver
the confidence that we're

handling those threats and
keeping the environment safe and

secure.

Keith Hawkey: And speaking of
confidence, I think that Red

Canary at this point has a
pretty good track record in

terms of you know, false
positives, particularly, I said,

what is the data on that? I know
that I've got some numbers in my

head but, I know I'll get it
wrong, that that certain

percentage.

Brennan Manion: We have a 99%
plus thread accuracy rate. So

many people on your, in your
target audience of listeners are

probably going to say that's a
bunch of BS, it's actually very

true. So we just did just shy of
34,000 confirmed threats across

around 1000 customers this past
year. And 286 of those threats

were false positives. So if you
look at that, we're doing about

one false positive per 125 true
detections right now, which is

putting us at a 99% plus, it's
like 99.2 dot dot dot is what

our accuracy rate is, and the
way we do that Keith is our

software and our human element.

So as data comes into red
Canary, it immediately goes into

the detection engine. And that
detection engine is super

sophisticated. But its real
principles are quite basic. It's

looking for new behavior, bad
behavior, suspicious behavior,

any one of those three things
you can be rest assured, it's

going to be reviewed, not by
one, but two tier two and above

SOC analysts to confirm, hey, do
we have a threat on our hands or

is this a false positive because
there's really nothing worse.

Well, there is. The worst thing
you could have is you could have

a threat get past by you, and
you have a compromise. The

second worst thing is having a
vendor that you're paying good

money to that's helping you
respond to threats and confirm

them, ship you a bunch of fake
alerts. You don't want to have

that. And that's something that
we're really good at sussing out

and giving a confirmed threat to
an end user. So when that does

happen for our customer base,
our customers are very

interested to know, hey, Red
Canary has got a real threat on

our hands.

Keith Hawkey: Yeah, that can
save an IT or cybersecurity team

immense time for sure. Another
another question that I get from

a lot of IT leaders is they have
a solution that, they have an

EDR solution and endpoint
detection response. And then but

they have providers to come in
and they'll do managed EDR and

then they'll call it MDR. And
then there's XDR that's a lot of

Rs in this world. So what are
what are the differences between

EDR MDR and XDR? How do we
categorize these buzz words?

Brennan Manion: Well, when Red
Canary was first born, we just

did managed EDR. And it goes
back to what I've been kind of

harping on the whole call, it's
we listened to the customer and

that's helped us evolve to be
where we're at today and Red

Canary's absolutely a managed
detection response or a managed

XDR however you want to spin it.

I like to think of XDR as the
great term next gen that we all

saw about three years ago in the
IT space. It's another way just

if you park cloud in front of
it, it's gonna gather more of a

target audience. It's kind of
one of those buzzwords, you

know, EDR endpoint detection and
response MDR managed detection

response, XDR extended detection
and response. The way we look at

XDR is, you've got all the
different tools in your stack,

from your networking, to your
identity, to your cloud, your

SAS, your apps, any of the great
tools you've got that you've

invested in your security
strategy, those are falling in

the category of XDR. What Red
Canary wants to do and does do

is we're ingesting the XDR data
so all the different tool sets

coming into us we're helping
manage and help solve that

problem for them. That's how
we're addressing it and that's

kind of how the market has to
find all those different

acronyms that we've got.

Keith Hawkey: Does Red Canary
provide any of the endpoint

protection technology today? Or
do you guys

Brennan Manion: Yeah so, we're
big believers that if you're

going to create something and do
it really great, let's not go

ahead and recreate one that
somebody's already done really,

really well. So for us, we're
partnered with the best of breed

providers when it comes to
networking, email security,

endpoint security, you name it,
right? You know, Red Canary's

proprietary data is our managed
detection response. We did

create our own Linux EDR, we
felt like there was an opening

in the market there so we did
create our own Linux technology

there. So we did create that
ourselves. But primarily, we're

interested in in utilizing the
great tools that companies have

already invested in. It doesn't
really make a whole lot of sense

for us to try and go compete
with the great, great endpoint

and networking and email
companies that have already been

proven and tested and validated.

Our goal is to help customers
manage them and operate them at

the best performance level
possible.

Keith Hawkey: So Red Canary,
your your value add or one of

the main ones is that regardless
of the investments an our

organization has made, Red
Canary can come in over the top

and add increased value to the
initial into those investments.

You don't have to there's very
little change that they have to

make in their environment to
have Red Canary perform the SOC

services and the MDR.

Brennan Manion: That's exactly
right. So you know, when I look

at the customer profiles, Red
Canary, you know, people are

really partnering with us
because they're they're either,

the number one reason that they
partner with us is they want to

do everything they can in their
power to avoid ending up in the

press, in the press release, or
the news with anything of a

negative connotation behind it.

They want to really focus on
keeping the brand in the best

highlighted version possible.

And Red Canary is good at
identifying what's a real threat

and empowering their team to
respond to it really quickly.

Many of the customers when we're
talking to them, and they have

not yet partnered with us, a top
pain point they have is hey, I

have bought best of breed
technology, I have that in

place. I do have people on my
staff. But the problem is, I'm

still challenged with trying to
manage that and go through all

of the alerts and do that
effectively. Also, I'm taxing my

team, we're running 24 by seven,
there's people that are

challenged with some of the on
call support you've got to do or

the eyes on glass we're having
to do on holidays and weekends.

When people are partnering with
Red Canary, our customers are

able to close their laptops and
walk away without that anxiety

in the back of their mind of,
hey, my laptop's closed, I'm out

doing Christmas shopping right
now, I really hope something bad

doesn't happen to my environment
when I'm not in front of my

machine. That's exactly what Red
Canary is solving. They're

empowering their customer. You
know, a lot of people like to

say, hey, come by MDR and we'll
release all this time so you can

go focus on the things you got
to do. That seems like some

fluffy BS, in my opinion. What
Red Canary is really doing my

man is we're giving the customer
confidence. Because there's a

lot of alerts coming in. I'll
never forget, I met a guy at a

large bank back in the day and I
was talking to him. He was a

friend of a friend and he worked
on a SOC it just happened to be

that we were at the same party
together. And I said, Wow,

you're in the security operation
center. No kidding. Tell me

about your job. He goes oh well
I'm going through these alerts.

I manage them, I'm going through
a sim, I've got networking

endpoint. He's like, Are you
tracking what I'm talking about?

I'm like, Yes, I do. I know
exactly what you're talking

about. And I was like, I've got
one question for you, my man.

Are you able to go through all
the alerts in your environment?

And his response is, he started
laughing and he goes Not a

chance. And that let me know
that a large organization like

him that has a lot of funding to
be really successful in their

security practice let me know
that Red Canary is solving a

real problem out there that many
companies are facing every day.

Keith Hawkey: Yeah, no yeah,
you're right I hear it all the

time. Mostly the most of the IT
departments today are running

very lean, they're in the weeds,
they don't have time to work on

strategy, they are looking to
bring in services that can

supplement their team not
replace them so that they can

take a vacation every once in a
while. That should be you should

be Red Canary's tagline.

Brennan Manion: I love it.

That's a great tagline.

Keith Hawkey: That someone
someone's watching watching the

ship. Where do you see where do
you see the market going in

2024? Generative AI is is on
everyone's tongue today. Is Red

Canary leveraging I'm sure, I
know the threat actors are

leveraging generative AI,
particularly to impersonate key

individuals that organizations.

I've heard of phone calls being,
you know being replicated.

Certainly we see it in email,
certainly we see it in you know

other more human oriented
reaches. Large language models,

generative AI. What do you see,
what's Red Canary doing to

implement that or fight against
that?

Brennan Manion: Yep, so we use
AI at Red Canary in helping us

identify and build off
detections, to honestly operate

faster and be ahead of the
attackers. And of course, we're

crowdsourcing our data so when
we do see detection on one,

we're populating that for that
detection to be identified

across all. For us, you know,
I'm going to kind of hop back

into what I said on the cloud,
we're really focused on

providing the greatest level of
support around cloud when it

comes to MDR. We feel like
there's some gaps in that for

some of the workloads, and we
want to be the very besta at

supplying that. And the other
thing that we're working on is

just having a better tighter
integration on the new tools

that we're seeing. So we just
released integration with Wiz,

we have MDR support across Wiz
platform, we've seen a lot of

success with that. We've got
that coming for some newer other

technologies and have gotten a
lot of really strong press in

the market, we're seeing people
adopt them, the different

technologies out there. And Red
Canary is looking to be the top

MDR provider when it comes to
that. We've listened a lot to

the customer. And we've heard,
hey, it's really great that

you're helping us out with these
threats, it'd be awesome if you

could actually respond or
remediate on it for us. So we've

done and released active
remediation where Red Canary can

remote in hands on keyboard, do
the full remediation on

endpoints. We're now starting to
dip our toes into that and

seeing Hey, can we go ahead and
do an actual active remediation

when it comes to an identity
threat, when it comes to an

email threat? Can we even do
that on firewalls? I know

customers probably are not going
to want a company like Red

Canary or any company like that
doing changes on their

firewalls. But there might be
some organizations that just

don't have any IT on staff that
would like that level of

support. And we're definitely
dipping our toes and potentially

offering more there as well.

Keith Hawkey: Well said Brennan.

So we're coming up at the end of
the podcast here, we always like

to give it give a chance for a
guest to to disseminate a

message. You're going to provide
a message to any cybersecurity

professional out there that
that's under said, or that's

just not prevalent enough in the
intelligencia of the

cybersecurity landscape, what
would you what message would

that be?

Brennan Manion: You know, that's
a great question, Keith. I am, a

couple of things come to mind
here. And I think that the

biggest one is I would just tell
people, any of your listeners to

just go for it. You know,
there's, there's a saying that I

like it's fake it till you make
it. And sometimes you're just

gonna keep faking it. And then
one day, you're going to

recognize that you've arrived.

And I would just want to give
power and confidence to anybody

out there, whether it's IT
security, sales, whatever it is

that your position is that
you're passionate about, just go

for it. I mean, you you only
have one life, go go do the best

that you can out of it. And if
you believe in something, be

confident and go for it. You
know, you don't want to get out

of the guard rails and be
disrespectful. You always want

to have high respect and nice
manners always. But go out and

go go for it. If you feel strong
about something, push the

button. And you'd be surprised
at the amount of greatness that

you can bring the world.

Keith Hawkey: That's awesome. I
think that's an excellent note

to leave on. Brennan, how can
people get a hold of you? How

can people reach out to you?

Brennan Manion: You can use text
me, call me, smoke signal,

email, LinkedIn, you name it. So
I'm on LinkedIn, that's probably

the best way if you don't know
me, my email is first name dot

last name at redcanary.com. But
LinkedIn is a great spot. That's

that's probably the premier
social networking for business

professionals but I'd be
welcomed to anybody that wants

to connect and learn more and
I'd love to help any way I can.

And if I'm not the right person,
I'll do everything I can to find

the right person to help
someone.

Keith Hawkey: We'll make sure to
include that in the show notes

and Brennan, really appreciate
you being on the podcast. Thanks

a lot for your time.

Brennan Manion: Thanks Keith
really enjoyed it. I love being

a partner with Opkalla. You guys
do great stuff and it's always

fun to work with really fun and
great people. So thank you.

Keith Hawkey: Well that's that's
very nice. And we will see you

guys next time. Take care.

Narrator: Thanks for listening.

The IT Matters podcast is
produced by Opkalla, an IT

advisory firm that helps
businesses navigate the vast and

complex IT marketplace. Learn
more about Opkalla at

opkalla.com.