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We are Alyssa and Bri, two sisters who believe God wants more for women than we've been taught. Join us as we dive into the intersection of faith and feminism, learning together as we go.
To the We Are More Pod cast. My name is Alyssa. And my name is Bree. We're two sisters passionate about all things faith and feminism. We believe that Jesus trusted, respected, and encouraged women to teach and preach his word.
Speaker 1:And apparently, that's controversial. Get comfy.
Speaker 2:Hello. And good news. We're still sick. Good news. We're nearly dead.
Speaker 3:I feel like, normally, when I have a cold, it's, I don't know, four days. What is happening? The plague. I think it might be. Yeah.
Speaker 3:We caught the plague.
Speaker 2:We caught the Patricia.
Speaker 3:I don't know. It's a bad time. I'm having a bad time over here.
Speaker 2:I feel like we've been dealing with the winds of change. And by that, I mean, nature. And by that, I mean, do you live in a place where you experience all four seasons? Because it's not very fun.
Speaker 3:See, I always forget about that because that's not something I dealt with past, like, maybe two years ago. And now all of a sudden, it's like the seasons change, and all of my I sinuses fall out of
Speaker 2:just do not cope with the changing of any atmosphere, any environment, any nature. I like, my body is just like, you know what? Nope. I can't. So we
Speaker 3:need to move is what you're saying.
Speaker 2:Well, I've been saying that a while. For a while.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I'll put a poll up on our TikTok, and we'll see where our listeners think we should move. Wear doesn't have Four Seasons, but it's not overly hot because I can't do that either.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Maybe we just move into the Four Seasons hotel and call it good.
Speaker 3:Oh, I'm sure that would do it. We would just stay inside. That's the lesson here. Never leave the inside.
Speaker 2:Yes. Yes.
Speaker 3:We have we are part of a family that's very, like, nature y. Not that nature y.
Speaker 2:No. I mean, they're not, like, backpacking through the forests or anything. They're not going to the Grand Canyon finding a donkey and riding it down.
Speaker 3:I mean, maybe they are. I don't know. I didn't ask. Family? Do you
Speaker 2:have something to say? No.
Speaker 3:But they like the outside. They're they're just outside sorts of people. And then you've got us, and we'll sit down and have a conversation with people. And I'm like, I like the inside. And they're just the horror on their faces.
Speaker 3:They're so sad.
Speaker 2:I enjoy temperature control. Yep. I enjoy television.
Speaker 3:I just I utterly despise bugs and weather and wind, leaves, grass.
Speaker 2:I think it's a control issue. It might be. For me. Like, I don't wanna go sit outside at a restaurant because I've already dealt with my hair. You know?
Speaker 2:And if I sit down outside, the wind is gonna blow it, or it might be too hot and my makeup might sweat off or it might be too cold, and then I'm gonna pierce glass. I don't know. Sorry, dad. I like to be in control.
Speaker 3:But this year, staying inside has not done us well. No. It didn't work for us.
Speaker 2:And here we are.
Speaker 3:We did go to Disney, though, and that was, like, a lot of outside and a lot of peopling.
Speaker 2:But at least they, like, control the bugs at They're like, you know what? You have to be outside, but you're not ever gonna see a mosquito. You won't, but you will sweat to absolute death. Yeah. And that's the price you pay for magic and joy.
Speaker 3:And now we're paying an additional price, which is called snot.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. So I wanted to start this podcast the same way that so many pastors do. Okay. So, you know, when you go to most of, like, the bigger churches, I would say, they start out with this anecdote, and you're like, where could this possibly be Isn't that how we start every episode? Yeah.
Speaker 2:But often, we go nowhere. I feel like they can turn anything, absolutely anything, into an inspirational god moment. I think I can turn anything into a feminist issue. Okay. I'm I'm ready.
Speaker 3:I don't think anyone would argue with you at this point, but I'm ready. Well, I don't know
Speaker 2:that I can turn anything into well, yeah, I think I can. But today, Alyssa and I were at Starbucks. I know you're shocked. Shocked. You're absolutely piddling your pants.
Speaker 2:But this man cut us in line. Wonderful. He's wearing pajamas. He's really winning at life.
Speaker 3:Isn't even a normal Starbucks. This isn't Starbucks and Target. Another shocker.
Speaker 2:But I was like, okay. Do your thing. And so he went up and ordered whatever the crap he ordered. And this poor young girl who's working the register was just like, okay, can I get a name? And so he gave her his name.
Speaker 2:He said, I guess, blah, blah, blah. She goes, Okay, how do you spell that? Just so I can write it on the cup.
Speaker 3:And he goes, I don't know. He said, My mom spells it for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he did say that, didn't he? And he refused to tell her how to spell his name. And so she's like, well, it might be spelled wrong on the cup. I don't know. And he's like, well, that might deduct from your tip.
Speaker 3:She was What? So uncomfortable, but she's trying to, like, customer service. You know, like, we all know. And I just felt so bad for her. I think it's customer service,
Speaker 2:but I think it's also women are taught to diffuse the situation. For sure. Yeah. Like, if I, being the sassy person that I am, if he said that to me, I'd be like, your mom spells your name for you?
Speaker 3:You'd get yourself fired right there. That's what would happen. There's a reason you don't work in these situations.
Speaker 2:Does your mom wipe your butt too? I don't know.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I felt so bad for her. And when Brie and I got up there, she was the absolute sweetest thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah. She was
Speaker 3:just trying to live her best life. She was so nice.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And just having to deal with men. Like, because I don't know what to say. Like, was he trying to flirt with her? Because she was younger than us, and he was probably a good decade and a half older than we are. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Was he trying to be funny?
Speaker 2:Like, I don't know what the situation was because there was no tone. Mhmm. I I think a big thing too is, like, when you just open your eyes to these issues Mhmm. Sexist issues, misogynist issues. You see that it's truly everywhere.
Speaker 2:And it's just it gives you it gives you the It gives you the ick.
Speaker 3:Like, there was a man working behind the counter as well. I just wanna know if the man had been up there taking his order, would it have been such an uncomfortable, bizarre situation? Mhmm. Probably not. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And for those of you out there that might be sitting there being like, okay. Well, that's not that bad. Like, she was fine. Everybody was safe. Whatever.
Speaker 3:You have to understand that for women, when when you're dealing with these kinds of situations, you don't know who that other person is.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And all of us have had enough bad situations in our lives to be very wary of anybody that's a little too weird, that's a little too too familiar, Anybody that's trying to make a joke like that, you have to be cautious because one out of four women in The United States will be attacked in
Speaker 2:her lifetime. And women specifically, I think, are very taught to be extra cautious. You think, like, when she gets off her shift at the end of the day, is she gonna have to be looking over her shoulder? Is she gonna have to look underneath her car to make sure that no one's hiding underneath there? And it's Target.
Speaker 2:It's a big parking lot. Lots of things can happen. Lots of things have happened in places like that. So you just have to be extra cautious. And that's why, like, just heads up men out there, quit being freaking weird.
Speaker 2:Just be a normal person. Mhmm. If she asks you how to spell your name, spell your name. Be polite. Move on.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. Or for goodness sakes, if you don't wanna give your real name Bob. Bob. Yeah. Something super simple, and who cares?
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's fine. That's fine. Just don't be weird. Or learn how to spell.
Speaker 3:That would work too. If you're gonna give a weird name, you know how to spell the weird name. I actually was thinking about that today because so we interacted with her. We on Sunday mornings, today is Sunday for us. On Sunday mornings, we have, like, a whole little ritual of things that we do.
Speaker 3:We go to the farmer's market. We get coffee. Today, we happened to go to Target. Mhmm. And there are certain people that we often interact with.
Speaker 3:And, of course, one of our one of the people we interacted with was our good friend, the cheese lady. A saint, really. And we see her all the time. And she is just so nice and sweet and chill. And I was thinking about, like, interacting with her and then interacting with this woman at Starbucks and just how pleasant female interactions can be
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And how uplifting they can be. Because, like, I walked up to the woman at Starbucks and she goes, oh my gosh, your nails are so pretty. You just look so pretty. And I have no makeup on. This is not the best I've ever looked.
Speaker 3:But it's just it's little things like that, that little connection with people. And when it's women together and this is not all the time, but most of the time, it's a comfortable, safe feeling. You know? So you walk away from that interaction feeling good, not feeling threatened in this particular case.
Speaker 2:Whereas, like, oftentimes, a man could say the same thing to you. Like, Oh, you look so pretty. But your guard is already up because of the experiences that we've had, because of the issues that you've had with So it's just different that interaction is always gonna be different because you have to be on guard. Yep.
Speaker 3:So today, speaking of being on guard, I think last week, we talked about how, a, Brie was gonna get back on the dating apps so we'd have some good stories. And frankly, she failed us.
Speaker 2:So A, I did get back on the apps. It's just that the the the the the hang on. I'm buffering. The pile of crap out there isn't that interesting.
Speaker 3:And speaking of pile of crap. So the inspiration for this episode came from my work because I was working on a piece about a conservative dating app. And I saw it, and
Speaker 2:I was like, oh my gosh. Wow. Wow.
Speaker 3:And so it launched me into this whole exploration of is this a thing? Because obviously, we all know that there are tailored dating apps. There's, like, Christian Mingle.
Speaker 2:I have a list of three on here.
Speaker 3:For me.
Speaker 2:Yes. Gluten free singles. Clown dating. What? Salad match.
Speaker 2:What? Awake dating. As opposed to asleep? Diaper mates. Ew.
Speaker 2:Farmers only. We all know that one.
Speaker 3:We do know that one.
Speaker 2:Should I get on that one? Maybe. I don't know how I feel about farming.
Speaker 3:Probably not great. We don't like the outside.
Speaker 2:I do like that one ride at Disney, though. Mullet passions. What? Equestrian Cupid. Furries.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Sea Captain Date. Wait, what?
Speaker 3:Have there enough of those?
Speaker 2:Gothic Match. Sure. And Herpes Fish. What? And I'm gonna end there.
Speaker 2:Oh, dear. There's so many there's a dating app for absolutely everything. It you know, there might not be a lot of options on that dating app. Maybe one person signs up for herpes fish. But this is not a list of recommendations.
Speaker 2:No. This is Google.
Speaker 3:But anyway, so there's obviously, like, you can get hyper specific or you can go on Tinder. You know, like, you can get hyper specific or you can just be very general in these things. Mhmm. So today, we're gonna focus on the hyperspecific. And that is right wing, hyper conservative, often very Christian and air quote air quote Christian, very churchy Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Type of groups. So the first one that we're gonna talk about is called the right stuff or date right stuff, depending on what you see.
Speaker 2:Should I sing that song too? Is there a song there? Yep. Go ahead. Not gonna sing it if you don't know what it is.
Speaker 2:What is it? The Right Stuff.
Speaker 3:Oh. I was on Date Right Stuff, and then I was confused. No. Anyway. So The Right Stuff was founded by John McInty, which I may or may not be saying that correct, Daniel Huff, and Isaac Stolzer.
Speaker 3:And these are three men who are, like, Trump insiders. So John in particular was very involved in Trump's first campaign and then was kind of ousted because he had gambling issues and a bunch of other stuff
Speaker 2:going on. Because Trump has no issues.
Speaker 3:No. No. He's perfect.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Obviously. Mhmm. Sarcasm.
Speaker 3:And then once the second campaign hit, this man was, like, brought back and had all the PR things. Like, oh, no. He's really good. Actually, we forgave him. It's fine.
Speaker 2:He turned a leaf.
Speaker 3:Yeah. He didn't.
Speaker 2:Or whatever that phrase is. I don't think that's it.
Speaker 3:This was also funded by a man named Peter Thiel, who is a gay man, which becomes interesting because this app does not allow for gay relationships. It's all very, like, heterosexual straight relationships. Just an interesting little side note. Now this app has had a lot of controversy surrounding it, and we'll get into a good bit of it. So first, it was invite only.
Speaker 3:So basically, you have to apply. They have to approve that you're actually hyper conservative.
Speaker 2:How do you apply? Is there, like, an application? Yeah. There so you go on the website, and you
Speaker 3:have to fill out all your information. And then they go through and review, I guess, to make sure that you're not a raging feminist.
Speaker 2:I don't know. They don't want any secret secret feminists No. In there. They're just gaining information. I should get on these.
Speaker 3:You should not.
Speaker 2:And then I could get some inside scoops. That would be inside. So
Speaker 3:part of the issue with this was that people waited a really long time to get approved. Like, it just wasn't it was just kind of clunky. People were like, I I downloaded this two months ago, haven't been approved, blah blah blah. But, also, a big issue was that women were not applying.
Speaker 2:God works in mysterious ways.
Speaker 3:I know. Isn't that so strange?
Speaker 2:I am shocked. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Now that's not to say that there aren't plenty of very conservative women out there that are fighting against feminism, strangely enough, but apparently not enough to keep
Speaker 2:the app afloat. I think it's just hilarious to me that men were like, no. This is great. Mhmm. This is amazing.
Speaker 2:We're gonna get the best kind of women out here. It's gonna be the best dating app you've ever seen in your life. And all of a sudden, there's no women out there.
Speaker 3:Well, that's one of the quotes says, it's basically Grindr, but unwilling. It's a bunch of straight men. And that's all. Like, there there were not a lot of women. Also, some of the prompts so you know how if you're on Tinder or whatever, it's like, what's your ideal vacation or whatever?
Speaker 3:And you just have fill that out so people get to know you a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So one of them was January 6 was dot dot dot. Now if you're from another country and you're not familiar with January 6, that was when a large group of hyper conservative people basically attacked the government. Yeah. They infiltrated government buildings in The United States. It was a big, big, bad situation.
Speaker 3:And they did this all because Trump didn't get elected. So January 6 was is a question that you have to ask. Probably, I would assume in the application process, it's
Speaker 2:not too hot, and it's not too cold. All you need is a light jacket. Not Michigan.
Speaker 3:And then people also so this is funny. So the FBI has been looking for a lot of the people that were involved in January 6 because it was a big deal. It was bad. Mhmm. So a lot of people reported getting calls from the FBI after they filled out this information for this app.
Speaker 3:Shocking. I know. Because they were saying, like, oh, I was involved or, oh, I was there or whatever.
Speaker 2:So the
Speaker 3:FBI is like, okay. Well, let's have a chat.
Speaker 2:Thanks for sharing that information. We just need to have you come down to the station just real quick.
Speaker 3:They also had ads that were promoting things like red flags are being a Democrat. Or they would have ads with women saying that they wanted alpha male vibes. So again, that, like, hyper conservative thought process, except for apparently no women were there. So no one wanted the alpha male vibes.
Speaker 2:Listen. I get that there's a dating app for everything. There's a lid for every pot, so I've heard. I haven't found a lid. I'm claiming the pot.
Speaker 2:But it just is a little it's just a little much. You know, we talk a
Speaker 3:lot about echo chambers on this podcast. And I think if you seek out someone who is just exactly like you, and I've seen this happen over and over again, you find someone that you're like, alright. We share all the same ideals. We are on the same page on everything. And I'm not saying that you don't want your partner to have some of the same ideals.
Speaker 3:Obviously, if you're, like, fully on opposite ends of things, that's gonna be a problem. But if you're just echoing things back and forth to each other, you're never gonna learn together. You're never gonna grow together. And what happens then? Because either you stay stuck in the rut that you're in and never become what Jesus asked you to be, which is a light to the world Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Loving to the world. Or one of you grows and the other doesn't.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Well, this is what we've said before. Like, can you have non Christian friends? Mhmm. You absolutely should.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:You absolutely should surround yourself with all kinds of different people Right. Who don't think the same as you do. So that, yes, you have more opportunity for God's light to shine, but also so that you don't get stuck. So that you hear different opinions, different voices, so that you can grow as a person. It's like if all you ate was chicken nuggets day in and day out, you wouldn't be sur thriving,
Speaker 3:would you? You might be sir dying. Well, I think about it in in context of dating specifically. When my husband and I got married, I would have quoted all the conservative stuff at you. I was raised in it, so that was normal for me.
Speaker 3:I would have told you, oh, yeah. I wanna be a submissive wife. Oh, yeah. I believe that the husband is the head of the household, blah blah blah. Like, I would have quoted all of those things at you.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. As time went on, I realized, oh, I actually don't believe any of this violently. I violently don't believe it. And so I grew into a very different person, even though I would have said all of those things. So if I was on this app, this this man would have had quite the turnaround.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I even think back to who I was not even that long ago, like, in college or shortly after college. I think I'm the same as you. Whereas I would have quoted all of this to you. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Because that's what I grew up to believe. But then as I got a little bit older and as, like, marriage was more on the table or I grew a brain for myself, I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And being a single person, that most of this applies more to me than to you, I assume. When I go through and I know I've said this before a million times, but when I'm going through the dating apps, I now specifically there was a time where I could say, like, political views. I was more open, you know, conservative, moderate, liberal.
Speaker 2:And I think it it it would be okay, like, you know, to have slightly differing opinions. That's okay. But now when I'm going through the dating apps, I will not match with anybody who's conservative
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:At this point because it's not just a political issue to me anymore. It's a moral issue. Yeah. And I don't feel safe.
Speaker 3:Well, that's the big thing, I think. And, again, for you, but is safety. Mhmm. When you read the things and I'll read some quotes in a couple minutes from these apps. There is always the question of safety with these hyper conservative people in a relationship because when you don't respect the other person Yep.
Speaker 3:And there is a massive lack of respect here, you're never gonna be safe in their presence. You're just not. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And I know that I've said this before on the podcast too, but if you're new, hey. Welcome. We're sisters, and we talk about Wow. Feminism. There you go.
Speaker 2:We're really sick. But I've dated a few different types of people. And the people that I felt the most respected by were non Christians.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. Well, I think I mean, Christian men today in the conservative church and this is an overview. This isn't talking about every single person. This isn't talking about every situation. But oftentimes, Christian men in the conservative church in The United States are directly taught not to respect women.
Speaker 3:Not like, oh, they're just not taught how to respect them. They're taught to not respect them. Because women are less than them? So then the other issues that this particular app has had before we move on to additional apps. Who knew there were more?
Speaker 3:Oh, You treat. So just in case you might think, hey. No. This is a good thing made by good, strong Christian men. Hold up.
Speaker 3:Sold up. Wait. I'm done. Was that for mom? Because mom said you should sing more.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah. You're welcome, mom. So John MacKenzie, who was one of the founders, again, super problematic prior to this, not a good guy. And I guess, you know, PR makes him look better than he was for a minute. But then all of a sudden, started coming out.
Speaker 3:Are we shocked? We never are. And essentially, several 18 year olds who had been using the app. Now this man is, I believe, in his forties. Too old.
Speaker 3:Too old to be messaging 18 year olds. And he started messaging them using this app, using the branding, saying, like, oh, hey. I founded this app. Look how amazing I am. He was offering them gifts and trips and lots of other things, and they came out with this.
Speaker 3:And he and he was like, oh, no. No. I never did that. That wasn't a thing.
Speaker 2:Must have
Speaker 3:been hacked.
Speaker 2:It was never me. I've never seen that woman before
Speaker 3:in my life. There's screenshots. So, like, it's a little bit hard to lie about that.
Speaker 2:I mean, when you're not taught to respect humanity
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:To respect anybody that looks anything other than what you look like Mhmm. This is what happens Right. Every time.
Speaker 3:Well, you can see this broader culture throughout our political system, throughout our religious system right now, where you see just constant abuse. Mhmm. I mean, it's not like no one's surprised. When I said that he messaged 18 year olds, you guys weren't shocked. Because countless pastors, it comes out that they have been inappropriate with young girls or young boys.
Speaker 3:And, like, so many men in positions of power. I mean, the church. Of our politicians. Yeah. So many of our high ranking, yeah, church officials, things like that.
Speaker 3:It's everywhere.
Speaker 2:We've condoned it. Mhmm. And we've allowed people to hide things. And we've said, this is acceptable to us. Amount of abuse is acceptable in pursuit of maintaining your power.
Speaker 3:Right. Why? And not just it's acceptable to us, but we've put God's stamp of approval on it because the church itself is fully willing to hide it. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:I highly encourage you to read Beth Allison Barr's book, Becoming a Pastor's Wife, because she talks a lot about that within the church. Situations where the church has specifically tried to hide abuse in order to maintain the status of the pastor or the elder, whoever was in power.
Speaker 3:So one of the really great quotes that I found about this app there are several, and some of these, they come from Reddit threads. They come from reviews, whatever. But one that I thought was very funny was, I tried to join to see all the men in my area that I should avoid. The next one says, this app is invite only. Unfortunately, I will just need to continue using the sex offender registry.
Speaker 3:So essentially, women are out there saying, I would never. Not all women because there certainly are some women that are fine with this Mhmm. In theory. And again, like Brie and I said, for all the men out there that are thinking like, oh, I'm gonna go find this conservative woman, and it's gonna be great forever, we would have said the same things too. It doesn't always work out like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like, in theory, yeah, it's great. I'm gonna go find a trad wife who's going to allow me to stomp all over her Mhmm. And treat her like a object. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Well, it's not that easy if there's no women there. And it's really hard to find someone that's gonna be fine with that their whole lives. Mhmm. Things change, and people's viewpoints change.
Speaker 2:People get sick and tired
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Of being lied to Mhmm. About who God is. Mhmm. And if they're really pursuing God, I would hope that their eyes are open to God's true nature. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Now the next app that we're gonna talk about is called Writer. Now I'm not actually sure if this one still exists, but it was founded, unfortunately, by a woman. Her name is Christie Edwards Lawton, and she explicitly framed this whole thing as anti feminist and pro traditional gender roles. So that was, like, the branding. She said this app is for conservatives by conservatives.
Speaker 3:And if you don't agree with that, get on a different app. Writer is not the app for you. She also went on to say, which is very easily refuted, but she said conservatives have better sex than liberals, more meaningful sex. And I find that very funny. Because if you follow Sheila Ray Gregoire, who has a page called Bare Marriage, She has done books.
Speaker 3:She's done a ton of research on, well, sex, frankly, within the Christian context because sex is such a taboo subject in Christian circles, at least in The US. I don't know about other countries. But here, it's just such a, like, we don't talk about that.
Speaker 2:We don't talk about sex. Was that we don't talk about Bruno? Yeah. Was it? It I was trying to get there.
Speaker 3:I don't think you got there.
Speaker 2:I didn't get there. I just made
Speaker 3:it awkward. Yeah. You did. You're welcome. But particularly for women, women are taught, like, that we're supposed to be innocent, that we are not supposed to know anything about sex.
Speaker 3:We're not supposed to talk about it. We're not supposed to even after you're married, not supposed to communicate about it at all, really know anything about it.
Speaker 2:You're supposed to let your husband teach you.
Speaker 3:Right. Exactly. Which yeah. But in a lot of Sheila's research, she talks about how and she just did a really big study and talking about how in these types of very conservative traditional marriages, sex is often not enjoyable for the woman. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Because it's a power struggle. Well, I also find it very interesting because, like, purity culture, women are always taught to save themselves for marriage, that their greatest gift to their husband is their purity, their virginity. But yet you have, like in theory, they're saying the same thing to the guys. Mhmm. In theory.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:But in actual practice, like I just said, the husband is supposed to be the teacher, end quote. How is he supposed to teach what he's never done?
Speaker 3:It's just so icky. Mhmm. It's such a weird thing. And that statement, conservatives have better sex, more meaningful sex. What you're trying to say there, I think, in the more meaningful sex, is I guess maybe that you have a better connection with that person because you have the same ideals.
Speaker 2:I think it's just marketing. Oh, I I mean, think it's just what's, like, a hot button thing that will catch people's eyes. Mhmm. It doesn't have to be true. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And often, when you have to push something like that, like, oh, we have better sex. Mhmm. We have better sex. If you have to say that, often it's not true. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Well, then is that really from a Christian standpoint? Is that really what you wanna be marketing your relationship app to be? Because that sounds more like Tinder to me. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 3:It doesn't sound like, oh, here's a meaningful, deep relationship. It sounds like, let's
Speaker 2:have sex. Maybe it is. Maybe this it's Tinder for conservatives.
Speaker 3:That well, that sounds counterintuitive.
Speaker 2:It's I said conservatives, not Christians.
Speaker 3:That's true. That's true. And she did say conservatives. She did not say Christians. However, there is often, like, that pipeline right
Speaker 2:there. So
Speaker 3:according to a lot of different quotes and things like this one was maybe less polished than the current version, which is the right stuff that we just talked about. And people see it as kind of like the precursor. Like, this is what led to that. You know? Mhmm.
Speaker 3:So it already existed, but I guess maybe you needed a better marketed version.
Speaker 2:I don't know. Is this the one that said you never have to go on a date with a feminist again? No. That comes later. Wait for it.
Speaker 2:I it just bothers me that there's such, like, a stigma and a hate against feminists because all feminism means is equal rights for all. Not just for women. For men, too. We just want to both be seen as human beings. Both respected equally.
Speaker 2:And if you want to have a quote unquote traditional marriage, if you want to cook for your husband, if you want to be the stay at home partner, but it's your choice Mhmm. That's completely fine. But saying that all women have to be that way is wrong. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think that's the big issue that I have is that someone else chooses this for you. Yeah. If you wanna stay home, stay home, man or woman. If that's if that works in your family, you don't need that dual income and that's what works out for you Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Great. Do it. Have a good time. I don't care. Doesn't impact my life.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. But you should be choosing it for yourself, for one. Exactly. And two, it can't be prescriptive to everybody else. You can't sit there and say, well, this works for me.
Speaker 3:Therefore, it must for you. Mhmm. And frankly, The US is one of the few places that's having this issue. Mhmm. Because when you look at many of the countries around the world, it's not even an option for one of the spouses to stay home.
Speaker 3:It's barely an option here just financially. And so when you put God's name on this traditional outlook of things where, like, the woman has to stay home, the woman has to be taking care of the kids, whatever. If it only works in your tiny culture and it doesn't work for everybody else, then it's not from God. Because God didn't write the Bible for just white US Christians.
Speaker 2:Right. And if you're really harping on, like, traditional family values, strengthen the traditional family Mhmm. Whose tradition you're right. Whose tradition are you talking about? Because it's not really in the Bible.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. This white American view of family is not in the Bible. Read it. Go ahead and read it. Show me Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Where it is. It's not. We talked
Speaker 3:about this in the episode where we talked about James Dobson. And I find it so interesting that in The US, we have this major focus on the nuclear family, traditional family values. We want dad at work. We want mom at home raising the children. Everybody focuses on their own nuclear family.
Speaker 3:And I find that so weird because, again, if we're going back to the bible, the bible doesn't really talk about the nuclear family a whole lot. Mhmm. Not only does it not talk about gender roles in this context of women stay home, men go to work, it doesn't really talk about the family.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Because the biggest thing is to go out and spread God's message. Right? To love your neighbor. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:To help your community. To be a light unto the world, not just a light in your house.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. But US culture is so hyperindependent. We've got that whole, like, pull yourself up by your bootstraps. It's all about you and only you. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And so instead of the Christians taking a step back and saying, hey. Wait. That's not really what god said. Instead of that, we said, how can we turn the Bible around to say what makes sense for us, what we want it to say? And what we want it to say is, I'm only gonna focus on me and no one else.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. In Mormonism, they believe that Jesus sailed in a canoe over to America. Mhmm. And Christian people would be like, that didn't happen. I'm pretty sure that didn't happen.
Speaker 2:But they act like he did.
Speaker 3:Like he came over here. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like he came over here. They whitewashed him. Mhmm. And they said, no. He he loves our traditions Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Strangely enough. No other traditions. That's really weird. I don't know.
Speaker 3:How did that happen?
Speaker 2:So strange.
Speaker 3:So then I've got two more. The next one is the funniest name of them all. It gets the funniest name award. It is called Donald Daters. And I'm not kidding.
Speaker 3:As in Donald Duck? I yeah. Basically. Anyway, so Donald Daters was launched in 2018 under the tagline are we ready? Are we gonna be surprised?
Speaker 3:We're not. Make America date again. My gosh. How many different ways can we use that phrase?
Speaker 2:And you can only wear red hats That's what out and date, and you that's how you identify each other.
Speaker 3:And a red tie. So this app did not last very long. It's very controversial because on day one, they had a massive data leak. So basically, all these people put in all of their information, probably financial information because you're paying for most of these apps. They put in all their personal data.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's the thing is, like, your personal information.
Speaker 3:It was one of the biggest data leaks of an app at the time. And so they kind
Speaker 2:of all trying to date Trump? Was that the goal? Yeah. He has a wife, I think. Well That he's ish.
Speaker 2:She's devoted to her. I
Speaker 3:heard. You heard that, did you? Mhmm. Brie's about to throw up over in the corner. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I think that's probably what it was. It was just dating profiles. Just hoping he'd see it. Yes. Donald Duck, specifically.
Speaker 3:Pick me. It's like that Grey's Anatomy quote. Pick me. Choose me. Love me.
Speaker 3:It's the absolute worst part of the show. So then the last one because that one obviously kinda, like, faded into the background because huge data leak. People didn't trust it anymore. They were like, well, maybe not. I just thought it was hilarious because that's the funniest name I've ever seen.
Speaker 3:That's hilarious. The next one is called Patriot. And essentially, like, they went really hard on the America Mhmm. Vibes, which I find very strange. I find the American patriotism very odd.
Speaker 3:Little cult y. Yeah. I had a a friend in college. She was a missionary kid and had grown up overseas. And she was like even though she her family was from The States, she had grown up overseas.
Speaker 3:And she was like, the pledge of allegiance is super creepy. Mhmm. She was like, all the flags everywhere, that's not happening other places. That's just a here thing.
Speaker 2:Someone who I went to college with too is from Germany, and she said the same thing. She's like, the biggest difference is you guys are really, really devoted to your country.
Speaker 3:Which, again, is odd to me. Because if we look at the Bible, once again, there's never this concept of be so proud of your geographical location. Or how about you should have no idols before me? Right.
Speaker 2:How about that? How many things are we turning into idols that you would never admit it Mhmm. Being an idol? But I think church has become an idol Mhmm. For so many people.
Speaker 2:The Bible has become an idol. Yes. Your country has become an idol. Marriage has become an idol. All of those things you're putting before God and what God really said.
Speaker 2:And God said, follow me. Mhmm. Follow me up here in the sky. Mhmm. I'm assuming he's in the sky.
Speaker 3:I think the Bible one is such an interesting thing. Mhmm. When Jesus died and went then rose back again and went to heaven, he said, I leave you with my spirit. Mhmm. He didn't say, here, leave you with these 66 books.
Speaker 3:I know that's kind of a controversial statement, but, yeah, God didn't Jesus didn't actually leave us with the New Testament. He didn't. It was not here when he left. He said, I leave you with my spirit to guide you. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Now, I believe that the Bible is inspired by God. The words are inspired by God. But I think they've also been translated and translated and translated by people who have now, listen, I have had this conversation before, but who have agendas Right. Who are from different cultures. And that is going to affect you even if you think that it doesn't.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. The little word choices that you use. Instead of using they, you use he or adding the chapter titles that were never originally there. But just like little things that you don't the normal person would not know about Right. Reading their Bible.
Speaker 2:They don't know about the controversy between the NIV and the KJV and the NLT. But it's stuff if you're dedicated to your Bible, you should know that.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's important. So the tagline back to the back to this app. Because they have they get the award for the most disgusting tagline. And let me tell you, there was some competition on this one.
Speaker 3:But their tagline is, you never have to endure another date with a feminist. Lucky you, you never have
Speaker 2:to endure another date at all.
Speaker 3:That's the big issue with so many of these apps from what I'm seeing. Now, obviously, this is, like, background research, but there are not a lot of women. There are a lot of men. There are a lot of men spouting off what they're looking for and then being upset when nobody wants that.
Speaker 2:I don't wanna be, like, super just reading into it. I don't know. But, like, the women who are into traditional marriage, this conservative viewpoint, I don't think they're having a hard time finding husbands. Many of them are getting married very young because they're told to marry very young. They're finding spouses through church or through their parents or I don't know where.
Speaker 2:Equestrian club?
Speaker 3:I don't know. Or inmates. There was an inmate dating on there.
Speaker 2:I saw that one. I think more men are having a hard time finding these very unique women. Uh-huh. So that makes sense to me. Right?
Speaker 2:These dating apps are full of men, and they're really, really believing they're gonna find these women on there. Women,
Speaker 3:and again, not there certainly are women that are into this, I guess. But as a whole, you're gonna see a lot less women in this space than you're gonna see men. Because this teaches men you have all the power. You have all the strength. You're the most important person in the universe.
Speaker 3:And it teaches women you're worthless. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Men in this situation have everything to gain. Yep. You're told you're the number one power holder. Mhmm. Your decision is final.
Speaker 2:You are you're on par with God. Mhmm. Of course, that's gonna draw you in.
Speaker 3:I mean, it makes total sense. Mhmm. If all you're after is your own gain, your own power, if you're really not concerned with anyone else or about the love of God, then this is very intriguing.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:This makes total sense. Yeah. It's when you become a more aware person, when you start seeing outside of your bubble, when you start caring about others that you're like, oh, actually, this
Speaker 2:is not so good. Again, the bar is on the floor.
Speaker 3:On the floor. All you have
Speaker 2:to do is see me as a human.
Speaker 3:The bar is burrowing into the earth. It's real life.
Speaker 2:We're gonna have to dig a whole ticket under it.
Speaker 3:One of the quotes about this app is it was fast and fun, but again, it did not deliver me any matches or in fact anyone at all. Unusual because I conducted the experiment from one of the reddest cities. So you can see this even in people's reviews. So if you go in and you look at the App Store for some of these reviews or you can look on Reddit, you'll see people saying, there are no women here. That was kind of all the major apps that we wanna talk about.
Speaker 3:And the really problematic thing, I think, across the board is just that echo chamber that you really have to consider. Do you only want someone that's exactly like you? Do you want someone who will never challenge you, who will never ask you to grow?
Speaker 2:That's not gonna be very spicy. And if you're on the dating app, that's what you're looking for. Right? Christians have better sex. Right?
Speaker 2:I'm sorry. Conservatives. Conservatives. Better sex.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I just if you if you look for someone who's just a carbon copy of you,
Speaker 2:marry yourself like Sue Sylvester in Glee.
Speaker 3:Wow. That was quite the reference. That was a throwback. Just marry yourself. They had somebody do that on Say Yes To The Dress recently.
Speaker 3:So those are the the main apps. But then those lead into a scarier reality. Once you accept this reality that women are less and everyone has to believe the exact same way that you believe or they are worthless too Mhmm. As we see happening all over our country and frankly our globe right now
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:This is something that it can lead into. So Brie talked about this a little bit in the last episode, and I did some research for parent run matchmaking apps. Now this is depending on the culture you're in, gonna be, like, super strange. For me, this was like a, how does this exist? But there are cultures around the world where matchmaking from parents is much more common.
Speaker 2:Well, there's like if you want just to dip your toes into it, like, Indian matchmaking is on Netflix. Yep. I believe it's kinda like a matchmaking dating show Mhmm. From the Indian culture. Because that's an actual job there is matchmaker.
Speaker 2:They find people and mix them together. But if you think of in the conservative Christian world, they're not so much into dating as into courting. And it's very similar because if specifically, if a man is interested in a woman, he doesn't go to her. He goes to her father first. And her father decides whether the man can court this woman, and it's specifically in pursuit of marriage.
Speaker 2:They're not just dating to get to know each other. They're dating to marry. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And obviously, if you are dating and not everybody dates with the intention of marriage at all, but a lot of people do. They date with the intention of, like, finding their forever partner.
Speaker 2:And some people date for, you know, the pursuit of
Speaker 3:a good dinner. Some people do. But the difference there is that when you're dating to get to know someone, you have the freedom to say, you know what? This didn't work out. We're just gonna step away.
Speaker 3:It didn't work out. Not a big deal. We're just not gonna see each other When it comes to courting, because you start off you almost start off engaged. Mhmm. And now in order for there to be a reason for you to be separate and break this off, you have to, like, go through your parents.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. Not even your parents. You have to go through your dad. And there has to be this big it's like a big thing. Like, oh, we're breaking off a courtship.
Speaker 3:That's like a bigger deal. Mhmm. As opposed to just being able to say, you know what? I know myself well enough to say this isn't gonna work.
Speaker 2:So much of dating too is getting to know yourself. Mhmm. Every date that you go on with a different person, you're kinda collecting little bits of yourself. Like, oh, I am interested in long hair. But it's not just physical.
Speaker 2:It's this is how I want to be treated. This is how I expect to be treated. This is something about me that I want this person to know. And without that freedom to do that, you don't get to know yourself. Well, that's
Speaker 3:the issue. So these parent run matchmaking apps, they originated in South Asia, in India, areas like that. But they're now starting to be marketed to The US to parents that wanna kind of control that marriage situation because there's many factors here. There's the purity culture factor of the faster I get my kids married off, the less likely they are to fall into the sin of sex before marriage. It's also this concept of worrying about culture corrupting your kids.
Speaker 3:And I guess you don't have to worry about that once they're married? I don't really know. But you've got parents who are arguing with the school systems over what books are gonna be allowed, over what's taught in sex ed classes, over all of these different things. And so another element of control is courtship, is arranging situations. And we're not too far from that being a cultural construct.
Speaker 3:As we move into this more ultra hyper conservative Christian space that does not value the opinions of women, I will not be surprised to see stuff like this develop.
Speaker 2:I think for a lot of these parents, I think the scariest thing for them is that their kids think for themselves because they might think differently. Mhmm. If the worst thing in the world is that your kid thinks for themselves and loves for themselves, that's what is that? Sad. It's sad.
Speaker 3:You should have enough love in your heart to look at your children and say, a, I will love you no matter what.
Speaker 2:Unconditional love, baby, just like Jesus.
Speaker 3:God loves you no matter what. And I know
Speaker 2:that you'll go forward and love the rest of the world, too. And it's almost terrible to yourself, too. Like, you don't trust yourself or your parenting enough to allow your child to think for themselves and make their
Speaker 3:own decisions. If at the end of my parenting journey, when my kids turn 18 and go to college, or when they turn 25 and come back home from college and need
Speaker 2:to stay with me as we
Speaker 3:did with our parents. Mhmm. Whatever point where they are adults, if they are going out and showing the love of God, that's it. That's all I care about. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:I will trust them and myself enough and God enough to say, as long as they're showing the love of God, I truly believe that when you get to heaven, all you answer for is did you love God and did you love others? Mhmm. I don't think there's a lot of caveats there. I sincerely don't believe that God will ask for a tally mark of how many times you went to church. I don't believe that he's gonna say, and how many cross necklaces did you wear?
Speaker 2:He he can't. Because all of the people who came before, how would they answer that before we had the traditional US every Sunday church? Or what about the people in other cultures and countries who don't have easy access to churches? Or the people who live in poor communities who don't have a very robust church?
Speaker 3:But there are people today that sincerely will tell you, when you die and go to heaven, you're gonna answer for all of these things. Did you vote Republican? Did you go to church every Sunday? Did you go to church every Sunday night? Did you go to church every Wednesday?
Speaker 3:And that you're gonna have to answer for all these little things. But Jesus very specifically said, love God, love others. These are your two most important commandments. On par with one another, love God and love others. These apps are not asking you to love God and love others.
Speaker 3:They're asking how much do you love yourself. Is it a bunch? Then welcome on in.
Speaker 2:It's not even just how much do you love yourself. It's how much do you love our current administration.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:How devoted are you to it? And that determines the kind of life you will
Speaker 3:have. Yeah. So as we were talking today, we decided on next week's episode, which is just the sort of stream of consciousness thing that happens here. So we're gonna talk a little bit about idols and what we make idols. I think we make, like, Brie said, the Bible an idol.
Speaker 3:I think we've made the flag an idol. I think there's a lot of things that we've turned into idols. And we'll talk about that. And it's not just gonna be money. It's not just gonna be the things you hear preached about at church, but, like, the the scary ones.
Speaker 2:The scary ones that you would never call an idol. Mhmm. But your actions are calling them an idol.
Speaker 3:Hey. That's good. We're getting spooky for spooky month. Oh. Getting scary.
Speaker 3:Last year isn't it wild that we can be like, alright. We did this last year? So last October, we did one on the Salem witch trials because we had an episode that came out on Halloween. That was so good. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So if you guys have any ideas for, like, a specific Halloween spooky episode that you'd like us to research, that would be super fun. Let us know on our socials.
Speaker 2:My life is scary enough right now. Let's just talk about heaven.
Speaker 3:Welcome to Halloween. We're gonna be speaking about heaven today. Alright. Well, get ready for next week. We'll be scary, but not that scary because Brie's already scared.
Speaker 2:Always. Always. I'll get comfortable being uncomfortable because that's what we should rename our podcast.
Speaker 3:We are
Speaker 2:more uncomfort. We're more than
Speaker 3:uncomfort. Discomfort. I think the word is discomfort. No. We've made a new one.
Speaker 3:We're doing a great job today. Alright. Love you. Bye.
Speaker 2:Love you. Goodbye.