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The Psychedelic Psychologist is a conversational-style podcast hosted by Dr. Ryan Westrum with clients and guests who use talk therapy to integrate Psychedelic experiences for healing and personal transformation. Tune in to hear people’s experiences, breakthroughs and stories of healing addiction, depression, and trauma through Psychedelics. Dr. Ryan Westrum gracefully and empathetically narrates real therapy sessions with people in their most vulnerable and transformational moments.
I would like to invite you to take a
moment in your day starting to notice
the best time for you to find grounding.
Breathing in and breathing out,
I often encourage and suggest the
idea of settling the body, your body,
in this breath, within this moment,
simply looking at yourself in all the
multiple dimensions that come alive.
Breathing in and breathing out.
Witnessing all the dimensions
that you are, how you exist,
how you operate in the world,
and what are your driving forces.
Breathing in and breathing out,
start to recognize what
is your priorities.
What are your driving forces
for this lived experience?
Breathing in mindfully, witnessing
all the manifestations that you have
created, all the things that you hold
with so much reverence and respect,
and surrendering them out.
Once again, witnessing your identity,
your driving forces,
and your values.
As you come to breath,
Be gentle with yourself,
letting yourself swim one last
moment in all the iterations of
who you are, who you've been,
and who you're becoming.
Breathing in and breathing out.
Finding grounding,
finding your center,
and being gentle.
Hi, it's Ryan.
Welcome to your weekly dose of the
Psychedelic Psychologist, where I
invite my guests to share stories
about their psychedelic experiences.
We cover a variety of topics
from overcoming addiction and
severe depression to finding
wholeness and spiritual emergence.
Today I'm grateful and super
excited to drop in with John.
John, it's wonderful to
see you and hear you.
How are you coming in?
I'm coming in pretty good.
Yeah, you and I have been working on
integration for a handful of years and
knowing each other quite intimately.
What would you say your draw
to the psychedelic work is?
What are you finding?
Your deep draw just by listening being
aware and following my intuition.
Yeah.
You say intuition.
So spot on.
What have you developed?
How, how have you developed
your intuition and what would
you say you do to listen to it?
My energy, when my energy starts
feeling low, I get really tired.
I feel sad and kind of depression.
Depression will come up in plate.
And I sometimes feel like I want
to die at the same time too.
So then I know I'm like, Oh, it's
time to go in for another session.
So that's beautiful insight.
And when you say die, you mean it's
that tiredness, that exhaustion and
how you're handling your life in the
world, how you're walking in the world.
Thank you.
It's kind of like, I want to, the
feeling of wanting new refreshment
of, of experience with the sower.
It's the soul.
Yeah.
Once to go in and experience and
have a new, new rebirth of fresh air.
So thank you.
Tell me a little bit.
I know you're just coming
off of a large experience.
Share with me one, your devotion
to the medicine you choose.
And two, what are you
integrating right now?
Well, I feel, I feel good.
Energy's high again.
I'm more aware found a lot of strength
in my last experience and just accepting
and allowing the way, the way things are.
And very humbled, always humbled.
Right.
Can you unpack the things of where
they are in meeting yourself?
Because I know your journey has been
long, and you mentioned that certain
people came into your experience.
Can you share some details
of what you're integrating?
So, in my last experience, I had a
lot of ancestral And family trauma.
I had some family members
that passed that came through.
And I also had some family members that
came in that are alive in my experience.
And it was a lot of healing.
Healing that I had to go through
and kind of witness within
myself and it wasn't easy.
It wasn't wasn't pleasant at
all, but having the strength of
allowing the healing experience go
through me and before my session
prior that week, I was asking for
strength and praying for strength
before I tapped into my experience.
Thanks.
I'm noticing I'm becoming a lot more
aware and a lot more knowing of what
the medicine is bringing to the table.
So I get a little bit more nervous
and, but it's good nervous.
It's happy nervous.
I know I'm going to be okay.
So it's, it's been getting a lot
stronger building strength and knowing
that everything is always okay.
Thank you.
Can you share when you said you met
some people from beyond the transition?
What did they come and tell you?
How did you, and how did you
interface with that experience?
The one that I just experienced
this one was a little tough.
I'm working on healing type of experience.
Me and my, a family member of
mine, he committed suicide.
He had a lot of trauma, a lot
of darkness within himself.
Me and him had a rough, rough path
before I had my spiritual, well,
I had my spiritual awakening and I
was drinking, doing a lot of drugs.
Also had an experience with psychedelic
where we had a lot of trauma built up
with each other through that chaos where
I had to be healing, get myself out of
that where he didn't and I tried to show
him the path, but he's very stubborn and,
you know, he kept bringing me back into
that, that darkness where I had to pull
myself out and I had to set a healthy
boundary with him before he took his life.
And that was probably one of
the, that's when I realized I
had the strength to do that.
And to be able to do that is because of
the work that I'm doing right now helped
me get past that and to do that and he
stepped in my experience and he showed me
strength and I showed him strength where
I didn't comply to that darkness where
he came in and basically told me to hug
his mom and show love and be at that.
So I was kind of blessed and
grateful that he didn't bring
that chaos into my experience.
It was just more gentle and accepting.
And to me, he showed me that he was
sorry in a way of him prior when he was
living where he was making it difficult.
So it was kind of, kind of very
heartwarming to see that and experience
that through my experience, knowing
that he's gone and he's still there.
So it's.
It was kind of a blessing and
strength and all the things.
So it's quite profound.
How are you walking with it today?
Do you carry his energy?
Do you feel him walking with you now?
Do you get a sense that
there's been a clear clearing
up between your two energies?
Yep.
Because I think that I feel, and
I see that he sees what I'm doing,
where the work that I'm doing in
this life and him being on the
other side, I think I, I think he's.
not being as aggressive as he was
when he was here, if that makes sense.
Cause I think he sees now than what he was
able to see before on the spiritual side.
So that's quite beautiful is what I'm
kind of learning to within myself.
So can you say more about that spiritual
path that you're on right now and
what you're learning about yourself?
I'm learning to love myself, love the
people and to be able to walk with
the wisdom and the the experience
that I'm learning in this life.
So being a lot more gentle, um, being
a lot more calm and just listening and
observing a lot more than I usually do.
That's quite remarkable.
And when you're observing and
when you're quieting the thoughts,
what do you notice about yourself?
I'm learning.
learning learning to not judge,
learning to understand and see why
life and people are the way they are.
And, you know, depending on where
I'm at and who I'm dealing with, I'm
learning to bring healing energy into
the experiences with where I'm at.
And just by being myself and just not
complying and playing with with people's,
experiences that they bring to the table.
So I'm not, I used to be a huge people
pleaser, so I'd really fit in and try to
comply to what they bring to the table.
I've learned, learned a lot of lessons
through that where I just learned to
just stay at my table and just kind of be
myself and bring what, so I've learned to
bring what I'm learning from the medicine
to bring into this world instead of.
Playing other, other people's
stories, if that makes sense.
And then I'm learning through
that, and I'm learning through
that, and then playing my story.
There we go.
That's beautiful.
That's really beautiful.
And so what I hear you saying is you're
paying deep attention to your growth and
accountability and not taking on other
people's narratives of who you are.
Yep.
Can you tell me And I'm
learning and growing.
And I'm learning.
And I'm learning and growing too with
this plant medicine and and I'm learning
to listen and I'm learning to spread.
the wisdom and the healing that
I've encountered within myself and
to just be able to show and heal.
So I've been staying with my family for
a month and a half now and I'm really
finding the strength to come in and bring
a lot of that healing energy and showing
and guiding and working with discipline.
What I've learned is there's a difference
between being mean and disciplined.
So I'm learning to bring that
healing energy and discipline instead
of coming in angry and mad with
what my family trauma used to, my
family would bring in in the past.
So, John, you say something very beautiful
and with your permission, I'd love to
hear be honored for you to unpack it.
You're now engaging deeply
with your family trauma wounds
by staying closer to them.
How are you walking that path and what
are you noticing about how different
you are acting within your family unit?
I'm walking with strength in the
past several years I've really got
shown and I really have sat with
healing myself, especially myself.
It started with me, and then it
started towards family trauma,
and then it led towards life.
I got brought into just life itself,
everything all around the world, and
I got to see the family, or the trauma
behind that too, where I built strength
and encountered the wisdom behind all
that, so now I'm able to show up and be
here with my with my family to be able to.
Show and lead with them.
And it's yeah, just having the strength
to do that because I'd say four years
ago, I probably wouldn't be able to
be here and do that because I would.
I didn't have the strength within
myself to, to sit with myself.
That's a huge point you make.
And I'm humbled by your expression.
John is the ability to sit with yourself.
So one, I don't hear it as easy.
It doesn't sound easy at all,
but yet rewarding because now
you're being completely authentic
in your expression of yourself.
Is that what I'm witnessing?
Can you tell me an example of you being a
hundred percent authentic within You are
new to doing maybe a way you show up with
people a way that you're Acting in your
life where you're representing your life.
So I feel like it starts with yourself
You know, is it okay if I share who I am?
Yes, please.
So, I am a transgender and I hated
myself for many years before I
started my transition and you know,
there's, I've learned that when
I had my spiritual awakening that
I thought I hated myself and I
thought I depression was that.
But then when I had my spiritual
awakening, there was a whole
nother depression and anxiety
of where it freaked me out.
And that's what led me on my
spiritual path was like, wow, like I.
What?
So that's what scared me.
And I really started praying and
asking for guidance and God led
me to here and I'm able to, you
know, work on with what I have now.
But hating myself to a point
where I just didn't like my body.
I didn't like the way I looked.
I just, I was kind of fat a
little where I'm just like, I
just hated everything about me.
And , just learning to love myself.
Where I feel like this plant medicine
really, really helped me, you know,
really love myself more than what I
thought I can love myself physically.
To be able to, in the past, almost
decade, let's say, past decade, where,
where this medicine has taught me to
love, Myself on a, a, a feminine aspect
and a masculine aspect where I just love
myself, like it goes deeper than what I
thought who I was, like, to be honest.
If I look in the mirror, I really
don't even know what I look like.
I forget what I look like because I
look at myself as this energy with
the masculine infeminine energy, but
it's a blessing too, at the same time.
I like to work out, you know, I, I, I.
Get to see my, my body change.
And, you know, that's just a multiply.
I'm like, Oh, wow.
I look good.
Like just knowing I love myself deeply,
but then seeing the work that I'm
doing, I get to see my body change.
I'm like, wow.
Then I look at myself
even more in the mirror.
I'm like, I'm actually handsome.
Like, okay, cool.
So it's a, it's, it's been in
a work in progress and it's a
daily, daily thing that I get to
see and experience within myself.
And, , I'm very grateful, I'm very
humbled that, I do and did get
to experience the life that I'm
experiencing as a transgender.
Living a female and a male and to be
able to embrace that, it wasn't easy.
I'll tell you one thing right
now, like, it wasn't easy.
I was afraid of masculine
energy really, really bad.
You probably experienced that at
the beginning when we first met.
I was scared of that.
Then I also was very scared of female.
energies.
I was, I was afraid of
both, so I didn't know.
And I had to embrace that.
Once I embraced that,
life got easier for me.
It really did.
I was definitely scared of both of them.
Men, I was scared to be around.
I was like, and I'd get an anger
management and I'd get in defensive mode.
Female, I just shut down
when I'm around them.
So I didn't know how to
accept love from both.
And now it's just, yeah, it makes,
it makes life a little easier.
It's, it's, it's crazy to say.
So once I started loving myself, when I
started stepping into who I am, everything
else around me became a lot easier for me.
As of healing family trauma,
healing the world's trauma
and all the things around me.
So I feel when I stepped into loving
myself, I built this strength and
then strength, strength, strength.
It just kind of keeps growing.
I'm not saying I'm strong,
strong, but it's there.
Your spirit is deeply respected.
I respect you and the way you articulate
yourself, the way you represent
yourself, the way you show up in the
world means nothing but love for you.
I'm humbled by your story and you talk
about solving the love for yourself.
And when the depression
comes around, it's there.
And the medicine has taught
you to turn towards love.
Is that correct?
And I feel that's just my soul just
communicating with me just letting
me know I know it's not depression.
It's it's just hey Hello, let's
go Okay So I don't get lost in it.
It's just telling me it's, that's the
only way it will catch my attention.
Cause this world can be so busy.
You can, you know, this is what
I've noticed too, being at home.
I get busy because I'm like here
working with these guys 24 seven, where
I don't have a lot of alone time that
I normally do when I'm back at home
and building strength behind that too.
And I was pretty busy before I came
in for this session, but knowing that
I had the strength to really tap in
and be ready in preparation for that.
So I had a challenge when I got back
home my brother who is living with me
I'm helping him and helping him heal
and change his life too, which is
amazing to see he lost his phone So I
got home around 10 30 Yeah, 10 30 and
he, I was like, Oh, I got to get home
and get some rest for the next day.
You know, that's, it's going
to be a big day tomorrow.
But the challenge behind that was like,
you know, I'm going to trust myself.
So I pulled up to the house.
I was like, brother, let's go.
Let's go find your phone.
He gets in and we're looking,
we're the last location
where I saw it, where it was.
So I just called it, some guy answered.
And thankfully, you know,
he asked for a payment.
I was like, Hey, I got 20.
We went and we picked it up and
I was, it just happened so quick.
Right when I got home, like, I feel like
I was something behind me was helping
me go get this phone and I got it.
But the challenge for me was like, okay.
You know, preparation.
I should be at home, you
know, getting away from chaos.
I need to be alone before I go in, but no,
I was in the chaos from with the family,
and then I went to the chaos where this
busy road was and got this phone, came
back home, preparation, went to bed, and
I still had confidence in the strength
to wake up the next day and be ready, so.
Just having the strength behind all that.
The old John, there'd be no way.
But you recognizing that you don't have
to avoid chaos or what I'm hearing you
say, John, is so often the psychedelic
world thinks we have to isolate
and not live within the real world.
And what I hear you saying is
you're learning to live within
the real world all the while still
healing within the plant medicine.
Yep.
Building the strength to live
both and knowing that that's there
and knowing that I'm here too.
Yeah, because we can only stay in
quietude and ignore reality for
so long before it will come into
our existence no matter what.
Yep, but building the strength behind
that and trusting that everything is
going to be okay, which it is, you know,
and I had to tell myself over and over
like, what is there to be afraid of?
Why am I scared?
So I told myself before, I remember,
I think it might have been my third
session, second session, I'm like,
you know, I'm scared, I'm freaking
out, and I'm like, you know what?
I'm depressed and I'm sad and freaking
out right now, then I'm gonna have to
live with that for the rest of my life?
Or, should I be afraid and scared to tap
into healing and just going through and
building strength and just doing that?
So then I have these
conversations with myself.
I'm like, you know what?
I'm like, either way I'm gonna
go through this, this icky
feeling of whatever this is.
I might as well just go heal and
go through this, you know, trust
with what is bringing to my table.
And, yeah, it's just, I just have, I
have conversations like that with myself.
So I'm like You know, I'm just,
I get very competitive, let's say.
Say more about that, the internal I hear
you talking about the reframing of, yeah,
we could live in suffering, or we could
go towards healing, and realize, and I
appreciate your point, it's effort, it's
not, it's not passive, and it's not easy.
No, but it's worth it though.
Say more about the worth it, what
do you recognize as the worth
it after a session such as this?
Thanks.
Thanks.
To be able to be here, I'm
very blessed and grateful.
Very humbled, very light.
I just, my biggest fear is that.
I, my biggest fear is like, what
if I didn't have this, what if I
didn't get the opportunity to, to
be able to do some work like this?
Right?
So I'm, I'm always blessed and grateful
that I'm, I do get the opportunity to
have this and to have someone like this.
So I always, I always get put in that.
So.
Thank you.
Well, and it's the efforts, it's
your ability to look at yourself.
And I think that's one of the things.
Share with me because I know
you're so kind and compassionate.
What are you doing to protect
yourself from the outside world
when you do now walk back into it?
What are you doing to safeguard
yourself and care for yourself and
not let all the energies suck you dry?
So I used to be a really,
really, really bad person.
Bad people pleaser where I've learned
a lot, a lot, a lot of lessons where I
would get caught up into chaos, let's
say, and then being a people pleaser.
Where I did, you know, have the wisdom
and the things that I've learned, I feel
like I probably shared a little too much
and I probably you know, yeah, learned a
lot of lessons where I'm like, you know,
I feel the energies where I can tell my
intuition like would like poke at me, you
know, kind of get, hey, that's not right.
That's not right.
And I didn't understand that yet, or I
didn't know, or it just, now that I know
and learned from that, Where I just kind
of keep my energy to myself and just start
leading by example, instead of trying
to force or share too much, let's say.
Because I get excited.
I get really excited and I want to
share and, you know, help people.
But I've noticed, I've also learned
that a lot of people don't want that.
A lot of people are not ready yet.
So I only just share and give to those who
are asking or if somebody is going through
something, I kind of just lead by example,
kind of give a little, little bit of, a
little bit of information, but, you know,
just depending on who it is, I, I know.
To, when to share and when not
to share, two at the same time.
So, you know, cause some
people are just not ready yet.
You're true.
You're spot on.
I often say the difference between
someone that's enlightened and
someone that's psychotic is you choose
wisely who you share your story with.
What are you doing?
to see that I had to really work through
all that to realize what, what I see
in front of me too, at the same time.
Yeah, staying in our lane, right?
I think that's one of the most
remarkable things about you that I
appreciate is we stay in our lane.
You're an identification of
that, the way you represent
yourself, the way you show up.
It's quite remarkable.
Can you share with me what you're
doing to be gentle with yourself
after a big session like this
and all the wisdom and insights?
So I practiced throughout the years
to really not hold on to energy.
It's just more of letting it come in
and go and letting it come in and go.
And I feel like the universe knows
when, when to bring something
back that I need to work through.
And that goes by experiences through
people or just healing within myself.
I'll cross path with somebody that
just has a lot of trauma where I'm
like, Oh, where I had, where it got
brought to me, where I'd have to.
work through that and then come to
set a boundary, but then like see
it at the same time, but not play.
So then I get tested.
where where some of
that stuff will come up.
And so you insulate yourself, being gentle
as you're not letting it absorb in you.
So I'm a very aware of all that.
So if I work out, so if there's some
energies that I need to work through,
I'll work through it that way.
Well, for a walk, listen to music,
journal Most importantly, sit with it.
Like, I like to sit with it,
and I'll sit through the energy,
but I won't get lost in it.
Because I, there's something that
I need to feel and understand
through that experience.
Then I let it go.
Beautifully said.
I'm humbled by you, John.
Thank you so much for your time.
Thank you for walking with me.
Thank you for allowing
me to walk with you.