Aliens, UFOs, and the Sovereignty of God

Show Notes

In this episode of Wisdom for the Wilderness, Pastors Zack and Josh tackle the latest wave of UFO and alien headlines — including President Trump’s promised disclosures, congressional hearings, and claims that alien revelation could shake people’s faith or drive them to church.

With honesty and biblical clarity, they discuss:

• Why conspiracy theories and government secrecy stories keep resurfacing
• Whether intelligent extraterrestrial life would challenge core Christian doctrines like the image of God, the incarnation, and salvation
• The fine-tuning of Earth that makes alien life statistically improbable
• The real possibility that some phenomena could be demonic deception in a materialistic culture
• How God’s sovereignty over the seen and unseen world gives believers peace instead of hysteria

They also explore the sufficiency of Scripture, the danger of obsessive hidden knowledge, and practical encouragement to stay grounded in God’s Word rather than getting pulled into distraction or fear. Whether you’re skeptical of the whole topic or secretly fascinated by it, this episode offers a calm, gospel-centered framework for thinking about “things outside this world” without losing sight of the One who rules over it all. Perfect for anyone wrestling with faith, culture, and the unknown.

Creators and Guests

JH

Host

Josh Hutchens

What is Wisdom for the Wilderness?

Join Dr. Josh Hutchens, director of Gateway Seminary's Rocky Mountain Campus and pastor at Overland Church in Fort Collins, Colorado, as he explores spiritual faithfulness amid life's challenges and suffering. Through discussions on theological questions and inspiring stories, Wisdom for the Wilderness offers guidance and hope for navigating the complexities of faith in a broken world.

speaker-0: Welcome to Wisdom for the Wilderness, a weekly podcast by the Pastors of Overland Church. We talk about the Bible, theology, practical things in the world. And today we're going to talk about...

speaker-1: Aliens things outside of this world

speaker-0: That's right. ⁓ Conspiracy theories and government hiding stuff. We're talking about this because it's coming up. It's like coming up in the world around us. President Trump has said he's going to release some information about UFOs and there's a group of ⁓ Christian, I use that word lightly. ⁓ pastors and influencers who were invited to some sort of secret meeting and, ⁓ and there's been an article floating around saying that, you know, the, the disclosure of the revelation of this information cause people to doubt their faith and, ⁓ could cause all sorts of stuff, could cause people to flock to church. Who knows? And it's, it's a, it's, it's wild. you hear about these things and.

speaker-1: Who knows?

speaker-0: You know, there's, I think there's either people will dismiss it or people like jump in on the conspiracy theory. Uh, and a lot of people just probably ignore it altogether. Yeah. Um, I'm not saying it's bad, but Josh, how do we think about these things? Biblical.

speaker-1: First off, just say that this is like every six months in the news cycle, we get something like this coming up, you know, and like a year ago, was somehow subcommittee was getting these reports and you had Congress people talking about it. go back even for like every so often, the media just like presses this button because it gets clicks. People are curious about these things. So. putting it in perspective is obviously something we really need to do so yeah

speaker-0: When I was a kid, I had a good friend, his mom bought tabloids. And so I remember like, I would go over to their house and there was always a tabloid on the, on the, you know, the coffee table about UFOs and stuff. And I never picked up one and read it, but every time I go through the grocery store line and see the tabloid, I think about her. Often the tabloid it was like even as as a kid in the eighties and nineties, it was about UFOs.

speaker-1: ⁓ huh, yeah. Bigfoot That's right. That's right. ⁓

speaker-0: here we are. So yeah, point well taken. Josh point well taken. Like this does get clicks. Click sell. mean, it clicks make money when people put this sort of stuff out there and man, there, there are people that don't have much of a conscience and will do anything to get click. And I think even people who start out in media and wanting to be some sort of influencer with a pure motive.

speaker-1: That's right.

speaker-0: Mm-hmm get bought by it. They figure out the algorithm and they figure out those things. So yeah There's definitely a piece of it. But apart from that You've got a government who said hey, I'm gonna release it. I'm gonna really you know, well

speaker-1: And you and I, it probably comes to no surprise to our listeners that you and I believe the government does hide things from us. Like, we do not trust the government. We're kind of that classic, ⁓ you know, right wing a little bit. We do not trust the government.

speaker-0: I mean, there's a thing I think Trump does quite often. Yeah. And I think he's really good at it. think, I think, I think everybody's done it. I apologize. done it for years. I just think Trump's really good at it where he takes this dangly shiny thing and he holds it up here and he makes everybody look at it and it gets their attention while he's doing something else or to cover something, you know, cover up something, something else. And so You know, then there's plenty of people, mean, we live in a, we live in a world where every, know, there's people are seeing things a million different ways. There's plenty of people going, ⁓ UFO list. How about release the Epstein files list? You know, so there's other people who think that's what he's covering up. Other people might think it's on the, on the war. know, truth is, I mean, he's probably doing all of those things plus plus making millions and millions of dollars.

speaker-1: probably also just having a lot of fun. think a lot of times he's just like having a lot of fun. is.

speaker-0: a mad man, a mad scientist behind the curtain.

speaker-1: Yeah, I'd say the first kind of principle to think about ⁓ when we talk about this subject is the fact that the Bible is not exhaustive in everything that it talks about. ⁓ there's been plenty of scientific discoveries throughout history that the Bible does not address and that do not compromise our faith in any way. So, you might think, for example,

speaker-0: not.

speaker-1: about the existence of bacteria and viruses and those types of things. Biblical authors had no idea that these tiny organisms, microscopic organisms existed and

speaker-0: couldn't tell you what a single cell organism is. Yeah. Right. organisms are

speaker-1: And there's nothing about the discovery of that that violates our faith, and so it fits within our understanding of God as a Creator, and ⁓ that there are things beyond our understanding still today. ⁓

speaker-0: And typically every scientific discovery makes believers look and go, wow, that's right. How God is.

speaker-1: Yeah, that's right. That's right. But the only thing that ⁓ would make the UFO issue a little bit different is if we're actually talking about intelligent ⁓ life, what theologians would call ⁓ creatures with a rational soul akin to human beings, right? And what would that mean in terms of the image of God? in human beings? What would that mean in terms of the incarnation and ⁓ salvation, you know? And are these ⁓ rational beings fallen like we are? And do they need to be redeemed by all of those things?

speaker-0: legitimate good questions that we need to process through the Bible.

speaker-1: Yeah, that's right. That's right. So that's where this becomes ⁓ somewhat problematic in a way. And I don't think it's really problematic, but those are the issues that would be tugged on if they could really show us there are, you know, ET is out there and he needs to phone home. So yeah, that's where the problem comes up. I think that that ⁓ and this is not

speaker-0: and he needs to phone home.

speaker-1: let's say also this is not a new discussion ⁓ among Christians. Like, even in Boving's Reformed Dogmatics, he talks about the possibility of inhabitants on other planets, and he thinks through this issue, and that's in the 1800s. And so, ⁓ you know, the idea that this is just popping up out of nowhere, and Christians have never thought about these possibilities or have a way to process it is... Is it true? It's not true, yeah.

speaker-0: I mean, so often in scripture, we see the language, the heavens and the earth, you know, that for all of history, man has laid on his back at night and looked up and into the stars and gazed at them and wondered out there is there life out there? What's beyond here and wondered. mean, there's, you know, in all of, in all of human history, that's, that's happened.

speaker-1: Yeah. What's out there. Yeah, yeah.

speaker-0: I think we look to the Bible though. What do we take away from the Bible? First, I would just say that God is sovereign over the seen and the unseen world. You know, when I look out in the heavens and the earth, all I have to, like I'm going, yeah, I don't know what all is out there, but God made every bit of it. God is in control of every bit of it. God is sovereign over every bit of it. And because I believe in the big, powerful, sovereign God, I don't have to sit back and fear and play the what if game. Yeah. I don't have to say, don't have to bite on hysteria because my faith says God's got this. Yeah. God's in control.

speaker-1: That's right. That's right. Yeah, you know, as we look at that, we look also at the kind of just thinking logically for a second. ⁓ One of the incredible things about life on earth is the, you know, what we call in terms of creation defense is the fine-tuning argument, right? That the earth is absolutely finely tuned for there to be life here. You know, if it was... I don't remember all the things, but if it's like one degree tilt in one direction, it's an ice planet. If it's one degree tilt the other direction, then it's burn up. ⁓ So, know, first off, like, the probability of there being another planet where life can exist is so, so tiny ⁓ that it makes all of these things. I think you first should start with a lot of skepticism. ⁓ before, you know, like, okay, well, the Air Force found X and X, they're, you know, they're keeping it in Los Alamos, and, you know, like, you should start with a ton of skepticism, because it's so improbable that there would even be a planet where life could exist. ⁓ So, that's where, that's one place to, one angle to go at it.

speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, right. Which makes me then go back to a place of worship to go, man, how incredible is God that, that our existence is not by accident. You know, really incredible to, to, to think about. ⁓

speaker-1: That's right.

speaker-0: You know, JD Vance, ⁓ when I think this might've been all the way back in, it might've been April, could have been February. I don't know, getting those two things mixed up, but he makes a comment like, well, I think it's demons. Yeah. And he went, he went to demons. Let's talk about Josh angels and demons. Yeah. Yeah. And, and how those things could play out in some of the things that, that we see could. ⁓ Could some of the things that people are seeing and that there's video proof of and this evidence, could it be demons? Could it be angels? What do you think?

speaker-1: Yeah, it's interesting. One of my friends online, a theologian who teaches at a school, made the point that in the, I think it was the 80s, Billy Graham wrote a book called Angels. And in that book, he speculates that if there is extraterrestrial life, that what it actually is is angels. today, the speculation tends to be among Christians that it's demons, and it does kind of speak to kind of where we are mentally as a society from the from 80s. But I, you know, first off, ⁓ we absolutely believe in a supernatural spiritual realm. ⁓ So, you know, we've talked about angels and demons on the podcast before, but, you know, we believe in things that are beyond the explanation of science. beyond our current understandings of technology, like, there is these spiritual beings, angels and demons, that exist. And then when you come to the demons in particular, one of the things that they do is they deceive people in order to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel in the face of Jesus Christ. That's what it says in 2 Corinthians 4, I think it is. And so, you know, you see that in, you know, pagan witchcraft, how the demons are active in pagan witchcraft. You know, we've talked a lot about, you know, kind of experiences from Africa and different places around the world. Well, then, translate that to materialism, which is the native religion of Western society, right? So, we don't call it a religion because it's not, you know, it doesn't, like, focus on God, but in terms of it being a worldview, the way people think about the world, the way they get their answers to the big questions about life. Materialism is a religion, and what would demons do in this setting except to further deceive people into believing a materialistic worldview? And so, I think UFOs and some of these things are really the supernatural ⁓ inclination of a materialistic worldview. So, you don't have room for things outside of the material world. There's no spiritual world. So, where do you go to look for those phenomena? Well, it must be coming from outside the earth, right? Right. And so, ⁓ you know, demons would have a huge ⁓ kind of payoff of keeping people deceived in a materialistic worldview. ⁓ by doing these kinds of things, and it's certainly within their power to manifest in these different kinds of ways. ⁓ So that's my immediate answer to anything, is how do we know it's not demonic?

speaker-0: Yeah, that's a, that's a good answer. It's a helpful answer. And you know, you know, we in a materialistic world do look for a materialistic answer. Yeah. That is our first reaction typically in the world. that's a, that's a really.

speaker-1: ⁓ point. Let me say, I think there's really two possibilities. Like, if there's something in a warehouse in Los Alamos, some piece of technology, there's the possibility that it is demonic in origin, or there's the possibility that it comes from China or Russia or some technology that they have that we weren't aware of. ⁓

speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've thought about this quite a bit. Like how much, how much of the stuff that we see is from other governments and what is our government doing at the same time,

speaker-1: Yeah. If one of our, you know, stealth bombers that nobody has an idea exists crashes in the middle of China, what are they going to think about it, you know?

speaker-0: Yeah, they're probably go the Americans. They could go, they could, know, there might not be so, so there's no country that can produce this technology. ⁓ Americans are like, no one, don't have it. No one else can have it. has to come from the aliens. ⁓ yeah, I think that's good. I think, I think here, I think we could just acknowledge that like what happens if there is life outside the Let's, talk about that. What if there really is life?

speaker-1: See? ⁓

speaker-0: that it's in a different universe and, and they're greater than we are and better at space travel. And, know, they, like we're pulling off a loop around the moon and it's a big deal. You know, what if they're traveling light years and light years and getting here and visiting with us? Does that, does that mean God's not who he says he is in the Bible?

speaker-1: No, I don't think so, but it does cause us to ask questions about how we fit all of our theology together. I would admit that, ⁓ but I don't think that ⁓ it fundamentally undercuts the character of God as Creator, right?

speaker-0: Yeah, you just, I would just go, well, he created that too. And he did not disclose that to us for whatever reason or, know, however you want to look at it. And I don't think that's true. True. I don't think that's true. ⁓ I think it's within the realm of, of God, God is a creator and he, I mean, he very well could, but.

speaker-1: Yeah, that's right. That's right. I don't think that's

speaker-0: You know, maybe something comes out in the next, next couple of weeks where I go, actually it's true. Yeah. Maybe I'll change my mind. Yeah. ⁓ probably not. So, so let's talk about then, so we're, just admitting we don't, it's possible. We don't think it's true. It could be true. How should the Christian think about these things though? I would just say, as we thought about thinking and thinking biblically and thinking, ⁓ the more steadfast that you become, in your Christian life, the better life you're going to have. Yeah. Right. And so if you can be the type of person that doesn't bite on hysteria, doesn't get pulled into a anxiety that can sit back and go, okay, let's let this play out a minute. You you're there's a, there's a maturity that comes with that. Instead, fastness that comes with that, that like, okay, there's, there's just like nothing that's going to happen in the news today.

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: Yeah. That's just going to so throw me off my rocker. That's going to cause worry or doubt or level of anxiety. You know, man, there could be things in my personal life and personal circumstances and a personal trial. Sure. But like what's happening somewhere else. I'm going to be better off if I don't have a hysterical reaction. Yeah. And I'm going to be, you know, I'm going to be better off if I don't, don't bite. ⁓

speaker-1: speaks to the doctrine of the sufficiency of Scripture, doesn't it? does. So, we believe that Scripture is sufficient. It's all that we need in order to know God and to serve Him faithfully. And so, if there is knowledge, and there is, there is, if there's knowledge outside of the revelation of Scripture, and we talked, for example, about bacteria and stuff, and that That's great to know. Like, I'm glad we know about that now, we can treat diseases and all of those things, but in terms of my relationship with God, it has zero effect, right? So, there's a reason why there's not, you know, Jude 27 says, and by the way, there's microscopic organisms, and you guys need to figure this out, because that has no effect on me knowing God. and serving Him in my life. We have everything that we need in order to do that in Scripture, and so everything else is just complementary to that. It's not irrelevant, but it's not necessary.

speaker-0: Yeah, that's, that's really helpful. So what would you say to the person who does get pulled into, ⁓ hysteria spends a lot of time, ⁓ obsessing over hidden knowledge and things we don't know. What would you say the person who, kind of gets pulled into things like this?

speaker-1: Yeah, I think that sometimes we all get pulled into something, some sort of obsession, right? Whether it's elk or something else. And we all have to have moments where we unplug, right? And we get back to the basics. And so, ⁓ a lot of times that means that these hobbies and obsessions become a distraction from our study of the Word and our relationship to God, right? They're good in as much as they can, you know, be a stress release or something like that, but if they are distracting us from what is core, then we need to unplug from them and get back to the basics. And so, I'd encourage people to just take a break, you know, turn it off, you know, get off of Facebook if that's what your algorithm is feeding you, you know, get off of Facebook, get off of YouTube, and just get back to the Word of God, to your family, to your church, and see if after, you know, six months or a year of unplugging, if that thing you were obsessed over even matters to you anymore.

speaker-0: What would you, what would you say the person who, who like constantly is thinking about the secret, not like that's often conspiracy people who are like, ⁓ you know, there's people who like have never met a conspiracy theory they didn't like. ⁓ And there's a level of which there's a secret knowledge and they want to know, they really want to know what is the secret knowledge. What'd you say to that?

speaker-1: Yeah, Deuteronomy says that the secret things belong to the Lord, right? And so, He has given us the things that we need to know, and then He tells us to essentially trust Him with the things that He hasn't given us. And so, this comes back to, is God trustworthy? I mean, at the end of the day, ⁓ do we believe that God Himself is trustworthy? That's why we believe the Bible is inerrant.

speaker-0: Right. And I think, you know, kind of, kind of your points there to kind of tie them up. Like Satan would love nothing more than to distract you with those kinds of things so that you're not in the word. You're not making disciples. You're not serving in the church. Like if he, he'll use anything he can to throw you off. Yeah. So I think in kind of enclosing today, here would just be my encouragement that,

speaker-1: That's right. The Rails. That's right.

speaker-0: God is sovereign over everything. Jesus is Lord over everything and there's no revelation that's going to happen that's going to challenge or change the supremacy of Christ in all. all things. Jesus rules over nations. He rules over presidents. He rules over Congress and Senate that lie and hide things and, and put out propaganda from every government that ever has been. He rules over every one of them. He rules over angels. rules over demons. He rules over everything in the spiritual.

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: realm that we can see but also in the cosmos to the to I mean everything that exists inside of of of God so be discerning be humble cling to God's Word. Well you know the Christian worldview is big enough for mystery. Yeah that's right. And we see mystery in Scripture and so ⁓ I think one of the best things Christians can do is look at mystery and let them marvel over it and go, man, God is good. His thoughts are higher than our thoughts. His ways are higher than our ways. And trust in that Lord. Put your head on your pillow at night and go to sleep like a baby. All right, Josh, what's your closing word of wisdom for us?

speaker-1: Amen, amen. If you're really interested in these kinds of things, I would highly recommend you at some point read C.S. Lewis's Space Trilogy. ⁓ Obviously, it's fiction, it's an imaginative, like, what if, from a biblical worldview, what if there was extraterrestrial life? And ⁓ you have to read all three, so the third book is really where it is the payoff. first two you kind of struggle through a little bit, but the payoff is the third book. And so, ⁓ it just kind of allows you to, in an imaginative way, kind of think through a lot of theological issues, ⁓ as C.S. Lewis does in the Chronicles of Narnia ⁓ in a lot of ways. Just kind of looking at things in this imaginary world will help you see the real Jesus in the real world.

speaker-0: Very good. Very good. You know, I would just say generally, don't be distracted. Yeah. You know, don't just don't chase down conspiracy theories. Like, you know, every conspiracy theory you hear, there's going to be probably a level of truth to it. Right. There's probably a level of something behind it. It may sound crazy at first, but like, ⁓ there's probably something. there and I can name a bunch, right? But there is no one who gains anything from just being distracted and jumping all in. Like what the Lord wants us to know, it will come out. That's right. And you can trust the Lord in that. Amen. Thank you so much for joining us for Wisdom for the Wilderness. I hope this was helpful. Kind of crazy, but I hope it was helpful. And if you have any questions, as always, you can just email us at wisdom. at OverlandChurch.org. We'd love to answer any of your questions. Until next time, we'll see you Sunday. Go and be blessed.