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Health Affairs This Week places listeners at the center of health policy’s proverbial water cooler. Join editors from Health Affairs, the leading journal of health policy research, and special guests as they discuss this week’s most pressing health policy news. All in 15 minutes or less.
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Vabren Watts
Thanks for joining Health Affairs This Week. I'm Vabren Watts.
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Ryann Tanap
And I'm Ryann Tanap.
00;00;13;29 - 00;00;17;27
Vabren Watts
You'll be hearing from us throughout the year with podcasts focused on health equity.
00;00;19;18 - 00;00;28;21
Ryann Tanap
That's right, Vabe. And just before we kind of get into it, I want to point out that earlier this week it was International Women's Day on March 8th.
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Vabren Watts
Yes. Yes. You know what? Happy International Women's Day. You know, Ryann, yesterday I actually celebrated International Women's Day at the Enoch Pratt Library in Baltimore. They actually brought in Debra Lee. And do you know who Debra Lee is, Ryann?
00;00;46;17 - 00;00;47;12
Ryann Tanap
I do not.
00;00;47;26 - 00;01;11;21
Vabren Watts
So Debra Lee is actually the first woman to be CEO of BET, which stands for Black Entertainment Network. And she gave this amazing talk about, you know, what it meant to, you know, be a woman, you know, going up the corporate ladder and in media. You know, she came up, you know, the ladder like in the late seventies and eighties.
00;01;12;00 - 00;01;32;05
Vabren Watts
And she said all this time she never had a woman who was a mentor. And she said that she wished she would have. And so it was very interesting. And so now, you know, she has, you know, her own organization where actually she mentors women who are in corporate America. It was just really just a beautiful event.
00;01;33;17 - 00;01;40;15
Ryann Tanap
Wow. That's awesome, Vabe. I mean, mentorship is so important. I know that that's a part of our HEFT (Health Equity Fellowship for Trainees) fellowship.
00;01;40;24 - 00;02;13;23
Vabren Watts
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, she talked about some of those things with mentorship as it relates to mentorship versus sponsorship. And I always tell people, I actually had this conversation today with one of the employees at Health Affairs, just explaining to them the difference between mentorship and sponsorship. You know, mentorship is like, you know, people, you know, they speak with you about your career trajectory, but when you do sponsorship, it takes a mentorship in a whole other level where pretty much that person is speaking for you on your behalf in rooms that you might not be able to be in.
00;02;14;02 - 00;02;31;15
Vabren Watts
Like so like, for instance, for example, Ryann, if I'm giving a, this is a far stretch, but if I'm giving a speech at the White House, I, you know, may say, hey, you know what? I want Ryann Tanap to, you know, to give this speech. So I'm sponsoring you in these spaces that, you know, you're not at the table.
00;02;31;16 - 00;02;33;28
Vabren Watts
So she was just talking about the importance of that.
00;02;34;10 - 00;02;37;09
Ryann Tanap
That's great. I don't know about me making a speech at the White House.
00;02;39;01 - 00;02;41;15
Vabren Watts
You could do it.
00;02;41;17 - 00;03;06;01
Ryann Tanap
So in addition to that, it's also Women's History Month and Health Affairs is, you know, honoring that. We have in our Health Affairs Today newsletter, and on social media, you can check out the different voices and organizations that we're showcasing. And we talk a little bit about, you know, what kind of impact they've had on women's health.
00;03;06;04 - 00;03;13;22
Ryann Tanap
And I think that's a big piece of what we're doing here in the health equity space as we work on addressing health equity.
00;03;14;09 - 00;03;24;07
Vabren Watts
Yeah. Very important to elevate those voices of those who have contributed to health policy and health services research. So thank you, Ryann, because you're behind that project.
00;03;25;00 - 00;03;27;01
Ryann Tanap
Absolutely. What else have we been up to?
00;03;28;01 - 00;03;53;00
Vabren Watts
So, you know, actually, we've been up to a lot of great things in the past couple of years. Actually, we just found out this week, actually, I think yesterday actually that we are finalist for the Jessie H. Neal Award for best DEI coverage for the Racism and Health theme issue. So this is an award that is coming up.
00;03;53;00 - 00;04;04;18
Vabren Watts
It is slated for mid April. And so hopefully, you know, we will, you know, get that award. We are a part of four finalists. So, yeah, so I'm really excited.
00;04;05;09 - 00;04;12;20
Ryann Tanap
That's amazing. I mean, also well-deserved to all of our colleagues at Health Affairs.
00;04;13;09 - 00;04;38;15
Vabren Watts
Yes. Yes. Like, you know, like, you know, I always say people come to me and say, hey Vabren, you’re doing some awesome things as it relates to equity at Health Affairs. But I tell people, I say, you know what, this place is amazing to work for because like, I'm not doing this by myself. It's like, you know, you have the equity division, but it's not their responsibility for the equity division to do everything that's related to diversity, equity and inclusion.
00;04;38;15 - 00;04;57;08
Vabren Watts
And I will say that Health Affairs has really been great with really like implementing, you know, different equity based charges and really moving the organization for it. So that's going to give a shout out to, you know, the employees and my colleagues at Health Affairs for really living up to equity.
00;04;57;21 - 00;05;08;15
Ryann Tanap
Absolutely. And so another thing we are here to celebrate is I heard you are a recently published author for the umpteenth time.
00;05;10;03 - 00;05;40;03
Vabren Watts
Yes. Yes. So, you know, so sort of piggybacking on what I just mentioned, we did publish our journey, you know, to be more equitable within scholarly publishing, particularly scholarly publishing of health policy and health services research in a newly released paper that came out in Learned Publishing a couple of weeks ago called, “A Seat for All: Advancing Racial Equity in Health Policy and Health Services Scholarly Publishing.”
00;05;40;16 - 00;06;12;28
Vabren Watts
And, you know, Ryann, so first of all, let me go to the name “A Seat For All”. And I really want to recognize the African American poet Langston Hughes, who really started coining that phrase as it relates to like, a seat at the table. He mentioned this in his poem, which I think was in the thirties or the 1930s, “I, Too”, which is pretty much about an African-American who works for a group of people, and they're not being included at a table.
00;06;12;28 - 00;06;43;21
Vabren Watts
And this is a table that, you know, this person is responsible for preparing. And so the person who is serving the people says that, you know, his hope is that like tomorrow that he will be at that table and people will recognize everything that he has to offer and contribute. And so I really wanted to, you know, display that like “a seat for all” really talking about, really being inspired by Langston Hughes.
00;06;43;27 - 00;07;08;19
Vabren Watts
I would just like to say, I think that, you know, this is like a love letter to the people who are working in the diversity, equity and inclusion space within scholarly publishing and, you know, the thing about it is, is like, you know, we're trying to, you know, advance equity and scholarly publishing. And so we want others to come on this journey with us because we can't do it alone.
00;07;08;19 - 00;07;22;22
Vabren Watts
So, you know, we're just providing like a guide like, say, like, hey, this is what we're doing. We do not have all the answers, I will say that. But like we're just showing you what we have been doing to be successful within the equity space.
00;07;23;11 - 00;07;40;16
Ryann Tanap
Absolutely. And I think one thing since joining this team has been seeing how inspiring this work is. I'm curious to hear from you since, you mean, you started this department, but was it hard to do this work at Health Affairs?
00;07;40;27 - 00;08;03;10
Vabren Watts
You know, you know, in all honesty, like I will say this, Health Affairs was a different type of atmosphere that I was used to working with within the equity space. There was not a lot of pushback for the work that I wanted to do. And for people who work in equity, that's something that is different, it’s like usually when you work in the equity space, you already know it is like an uphill battle.
00;08;03;19 - 00;08;23;08
Vabren Watts
But I will say, like with the support from our editor-in-chief, Alan Weil, he was like, hey, just do it. And I was like, wait, what, are you sure? You know, I thought I would have to, you know, really pretty much run around circles to get things passed. But, you know, he was very open to doing things.
00;08;23;08 - 00;08;34;12
Vabren Watts
And I think, you know, with people who are in this space, you really have to make sure that you're at an organization who is not about lip service, but who are all also about action.
00;08;35;02 - 00;09;03;22
Ryann Tanap
So I guess overall, thinking about DEI spaces, I'd love to hear in, you know, your other experiences, whether or not at Health Affairs, what are some other barriers? Because I know in my experience there can be, you know, lack of resources or whether or not, you know, we have paid staff that works on this (and in our case, we do), unrealistic expectations about having, you know, just one person or one individual team kind of lead this work.
00;09;04;01 - 00;09;07;04
Ryann Tanap
So I don't know. What are some other barriers that you've seen?
00;09;08;05 - 00;09;30;18
Vabren Watts
You know, you actually named them all like, you know, you do have to have, you know, internal validation of your work to keep that DEI person happy. You know, no one wants to be at a job where they're not being appreciated for things that they are contributing. Also, it's important to have, like, you know, resources, allocation of staff, time, allocation of finances so that you can do certain things.
00;09;30;18 - 00;09;54;27
Vabren Watts
And, you know, a lot of people, well a lot of organizations rather, sometimes put unrealistic expectations on people who are over DEI departments because DEI within itself, “Diversity, Equity and Inclusion” is so broad. It encompasses race, it encompasses gender, it encompasses sexual orientation, it encompasses geographical location, nationality. I mean, we can go on and on and on and, as well as disability.
00;09;55;04 - 00;10;20;23
Vabren Watts
And so, you know, you have to realize that people like these leaders are learning. Like, for example, I was learning when we did the Disability and Health issue. I've been presented with opportunities to work in the disability and health space. However, something always came up where it always got kicked to the side and, which is another podcast series about disability and accessibility issues which get the back burner,
00;10;20;23 - 00;10;49;06
Vabren Watts
I think, within you know, a lot of the DEI spaces. But you know, it's like, you know, the organization that, you know, that you're working for in the DEI space, they really have to be open to change because DEI work will make people feel uncomfortable. It will have you doing business “not as usual”. And so, you know, that's how you will be successful because you really tearing down like centuries of like structures.
00;10;50;05 - 00;11;13;29
Ryann Tanap
Absolutely. And so one thing I was thinking about as we were getting ready for our conversation today is in addition to all of that, I think getting the organization to buy in, the organization as a whole, you really need to have somebody at the top. You need to have leadership really, you know, spearhead this. Why do you think that is?
00;11;14;19 - 00;11;39;07
Vabren Watts
You know, that is you know, so you can set the tone of how important this is. And once you set the tone of how important it is through leadership, when they say this is why we're doing this, once you start planning different things, make sure you include other departments within the equity, like within your equity plan and not only like within your plan, but just within the brainstorming session.
00;11;39;16 - 00;12;04;26
Vabren Watts
You know, I was able to do that here at Health Affairs and like, people were thinking of things that I didn't think of. And it's so important, you know, to really have like diversity of thought because it could make a everlasting impact. And I will say that, you know, I have just been very lucky to be at a organization where people are receptive, people are open to change.
00;12;04;26 - 00;12;24;07
Vabren Watts
And it like I said, it's been phenomenal. If you want to read more about what we've been doing at Health Affairs to advance racial equity, as well as other inequities within scholarly publishing, check out the show notes at the bottom and also there's a link for a Forefront article, it’s like an article behind an article.
00;12;25;04 - 00;12;48;16
Ryann Tanap
So, I mean, today's been, it's been a great conversation. And, you know, as you and I talk about often, Vabe, like once you advance equity for one group, you advance equity for all. I want to thank everyone for listening to another episode of Health Affairs This Week. If you like the episode, tell a friend, leave a review or subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts.
00;12;49;14 - 00;12;50;14
Ryann Tanap
I'm Ryann Tanap.
00;12;50;29 - 00;13;08;07
Vabren Watts
And I'm Vabren Watts.